[Update:Although I didn’t have a financial relationship with either of these companies when this article was written, I do now. DRB has paid me for advertising and I have an affiliate agreement with SoFi (meaning if you actually refinance with them through one of the links on this page I get paid.)]
One of the things I feel the worst about for current students, residents, and new attendings is that not only do they have a much higher amount of student loan debt, but they are paying a ridiculously high amount on it. Federal loans were, until recently, offered at a minimum of 6.8%, with many students now having a majority of their debt at 7.9%! I find it completely unfair that I can get a mortgage for less than the rate of inflation, and dump it in the case of bankruptcy, but you can’t get student loans from the government for twice that AND they can’t be discharged in bankruptcy. Thankfully, Congress and the President have provided a little bit of relief with a bill this summer that tied interest rates to treasury rates. So now, instead of 6.8%, you’re paying 3.6% plus the 10 year treasury rate at the time the loan is made (with a cap at 9.5%), which is currently a total of 5.41%. Direct PLUS loans are down from 7.9% to 6.41% (4.6% plus the 10 year treasury rate.)
Student Loan Refinancing Issues
Perhaps the biggest difference between coming out of school a decade ago like me and coming out now, however, is the issue with refinancing. My classmates refinanced their student loans at rates as low as 0.9% after graduation in 2003. That’s about as close to free money as you’ll ever get. Now, if you want to refinance your government loans, they simply take an average of all your loan rates. It’s nice to consolidate I suppose, but it doesn’t save you any interest….until now.
New Student Loan Refinancing Options
SoFi
There are currently two options available (and hopefully many more to come) where students can actually refinance their student loans at a lower interest rate. The first of these is a company called Social Finance (SoFi).
This is actually a peer to peer lending company, not that dissimilar from Lending Club or Prosper. They are currently loaning money to students who graduated from or are currently attending 100 schools, including my undergraduate institution and my medical school. The reason there are only 100 schools is that they require either alumni or institutional support for a school before they will loan there. Currently, they have only lent money to 1900 students, but I’m sure that number will grow. Rates range from 4.99%-6.99% fixed (with a 0.25% discount for autopayment), or 2.94-5.19% (capped at 8.25%) variable, again with a discount for auto payment.
I think this is a great option for a borrower. You get lower rates than you get from the government. It’s beyond me why an investor would be interested. When I go shopping for peer to peer lending investments, I expect a double-digit return, and there’s no way to get that when your yields are under 7%, especially if there are some defaults.
Darien Rowayton Bank (DRB)
I was approached recently by another option, the Darien Rowayton Bank (DRB), who sponsored last month’s newsletter (although I received no compensation for mentioning them in this post–feel free to call them and tell them to buy a banner ad on the site). [Update: DRB has now purchased a banner ad that’ll run during November.] They’ll refinance your loans from any institution. These two companies have also been in a bit of a rate war as of late, and DRB has fixed rates of 4.75-5.75% and variable rates currently set at 2.76-3.01%. That looks awfully attractive compared to the 7.9% the government is giving you. As of this posting, DRB’s rates are at least 0.25% less than what you can get from SOFI (assuming you went to an institution where your loans quality with SOFI). DRB also likes to point out that they have a single rate for each term (5-15 years) whereas you have to go through the SOFI application process before you can actually find out your exact rate. The biggest benefit of using DRB over SOFI (aside from the lower rate) is that you didn’t have to attend a SOFI-approved institution.
Reasons Not To Refinance Student Loans
Remember that when you refinance your loans, they are no longer eligible for the IBR or the PSLF program, and that like other student loans, SoFi and DRB loans don’t go away in bankruptcy. You also probably don’t want to refinance subsidized loans from undergraduate, if you have any, since that subsidization will go away. Since undergraduate loans are generally at a much lower rate anyway, that’s not really an issue.
The Mortgage Option
My favorite student loan refinancing option involves a mortgage. If you can somehow turn a high-interest, non-dischargeable in bankruptcy, non-deductible (for most docs) student loan into a low-interest, dischargeable, deductible mortgage or home equity loan, that’s a great deal. Unfortunately, those who have big fat student loans don’t generally have any home equity, and by the time you get some, the student loan situation isn’t so bad.
I hope to see more competition in this financial marketplace, but it’s possible that both of these companies will just go away. Neither of them is exactly a household name. You might want to jump on one of these options before it’s too late. It isn’t like you can’t refinance again later.
What do you think? Have you refinanced your student loans? How? Did you use SoFi or DRB? Are you happy with it? Comment below!
10/27/16 Update: Clearly neither of these companies went away and many more have joined the refinance business. If you do decide to refinance some or all of your loans, I would appreciate it if you would use the links on the site. It is a significant source of revenue for us and I have negotiated a special deal with many of the companies for you that you cannot get by going to them directly. And yes, you can refinance multiple times at increasingly better rates as your financial situation improves. There is no “break-even period” since there is no cost to you to refinance.
With DRB, what are your thoughts on the variable versus fixed interest rates?
Please correct me if I’m wrong: I make a regular 2k-3k overpayment monthly on my loan (I’ve got approx 70k left). So, I dont really care the duration of the refinance as I plan to have it paid off in the next 2-3 years correct?
Thanks for everything.
I’d do the variable rate and pay it off ASAP. You’ll be done in a couple of years it sounds like. Even if interest rates rise dramatically it won’t hurt you much.
If you are going to pay off the balance of your loans that quickly, the variable rate probably makes the most sense.
Does anyone know if your parents have their house paid off, if they could do the mortgage option for you? Would that be safe? My parents are in between on taking 200k investment at any interest rate, but I’m only 2 years from finishing residency.
Man, it seems like I’m one of the few people in my med school class that doesn’t have their parents paying for their education. Just from interest alone, by the time I finish residency I’ll be about 450k in the hole. It’s ridiculous.
What are your living expenses like?
College: 10,000+15,000 living expenses=100,000 after 4 years.
Med school: 35,000+15,000 living expenses=200,000 after 4 years.
Yes, add your interest…
…did you pay for all of your college expenses? You can pay back loans during residency and live for less than 15,000 without hardship. I live on 10,000 a year but most don’t live as frugally as I do, I recognize.
Man, I am bummed for you but happy to hear I am not the only one in this boat.
And I go to a state school
Do you have a referral link for sofi? Would like to hook you up. Your site is fantastic, thanks so much! Also, how risky do you think a 10 year variable rate would be? I like that SoFi caps just below 9% max. I can afford that should it happen but DRB’s 18% is too risky for me.
Make sure when you compare DRB to SoFi, you look at the actual rate SoFi offers you and not just the cap. Even if SoFi’s cap is lower, their rate is probably going to be much higher than DRB, making it less less attractive than the DRB rate. Note that DRB’s rates are the actual rates offered, as opposed to SoFi’s which are a range of rates, so it is quite possible that the actual SoFi rate will be much higher than what DRB is offering. It also might be worth comparing the floating rate SoFi offers to DRB’s fixed rate.
At SoFi, we’ve written a lot about how to decide between a variable or fixed rate loan, regardless of who you’re borrowing from. Whether you’re trying to decide which is right for you http://bit.ly/16cDxmW or assessing whether a variable loan will result in greater savings http://bit.ly/1b79Mrv we’ve done the analysis so you can make the decision that’s best for you.
No, I don’t have any financial relationship with SoFi. Good idea though. I’ll contact them to discuss it. See my comment below about variable rate loans.
What are the risks of doing this? I consolidated all of my dental school debt through the government so now I have $400,000 of debt at a fixed 7.5% interest. It seems like a no brainer to go over to SoFi for a 4.99% rate. Whats the catch? There has to be some hidden risk involved….
I hear you there. This seems too good to be true.
The catch is that almost nobody actually qualifies for the lowest rates. My husband is a Ph.D engineer making 115K with 65K in federal loans and a credit score 780-800. We have no other debt. We would like to be able to afford the downpayment on a house before we are 80 and would like to avoid paying an extra $30K in interest over 10 years on the federal loan standard repayment plan. (Unfortunately, tech industry jobs are almost exclusively located in areas with very high housing costs). I called SoFi, and they said he would most likely qualify for their “typical” fixed rate loan; that is, the one with a 6.4% interest rate. They said that the only people who qualify for the lower rates are those who have been employed at their present job at least five years. 6.4% still isn’t that great of a rate. We’ll apply with DRB and try to get their 5.25% fixed interest rate loan first.
Yes, the “teaser rates” are annoying, aren’t they. It’s so depressing seeing people trying to refinance knowing that those who graduated with me in 2003 have their loans refinanced at 0.9-1.9% fixed. Those guys aren’t rushing to pay that back very quickly.
You lose some of the protections found in federal loans (e.g., IBR). Also, there are some credit/income requirements that you will need to pass for both DRB and SoFi. Otherwise, it is a great deal. DRB’s rate are even better than SoFi’s, though, so check them out.
I don’t think it’s too good to be true. I can’t understand why no one jumped on this earlier. There’s a lot of distance between what a bank can borrow money at (mine pays me less than 1%) and what your non-dischargeable in bankrupty student loans are at. The only catch as mentioned is you lose access to IBR/PSLF. DRB only does these loans for professionals and SOFI only does these loans if you attend a qualifying institution.
Do you happen to know the income requirements for DBR?
It depends on the size of the loan and your other outstanding liabilities (ie mortgage). The best thing to do is call/email the bank to discuss your personal situation.
[email protected]
203-669-4140
It is true that SoFi does not offer borrower protections identical to those of federal loans. If our borrowers find themselves in an unfavorable situation, we determine the best way to leverage our community and be of assistance during their time of need. Our career service benefits go beyond deferment or forbearance in times of unemployment and help borrowers find their next position. It is a common myth that federal loans are always preferable to private options – checkout this and 4 other myths about refinancing student loans: http://bit.ly/1bfdegt
On DRB’s website, it says that you can do a hybrid approach and do partial variable and partial fixed. Does anyone know about this?
My situation: I’m looking at $275k in student loan debt. Would it be unwise to do a variable rate 10 year plan? The rate could potentially cap at 18% (ridiculously high), but the LIBOR hasn’t gotten above 1% in the last 5 years, and hasn’t risen above 6% in the last 20+ years.
DRB will let you split that into 2 separate loans, one fixed and one floating, using the amounts you choose. They do this for people in your position with larger loans who want to take advantage of the low floating rates, but want to limit their exposure to rising rates. Call them or email them and they will walk you through how to do this.
There’s obviously a risk any time you use a variable loan. You’re running the interest rate risk rather than bank. That doesn’t mean it’s not a good idea though. As long as you can afford the possibly higher payments you are likely to come out ahead in the end. I have a well-to-do friend with a variable mortgage where the rate changes every month. It’s been 1% for the last couple of years. That’s pretty nice.
It might not be clear from his comments, but readers should be aware that AA works for DRB so I’d consider his comments authoritative since he works in the field, but obviously biased toward his own company. I don’t mean to out him (especially since DRB has supported this site through the purchase of advertisements), but I consider full disclosure of financial conflicts of interest on this blog very important in maintaining the trust of readers.
If I had student loans I would be refinancing them through one of these two companies as soon as possible. I hope even more competitors enter this niche area, further driving down student loan rates.
I’m planning to refinance my loans with DRB. (I don’t work for them.) If anyone has a referral link, please post it as I’d like to give someone a referral bonus.
No referral program with DRB but I do appreciate your support of those who support this website.
I’m working on a referral/affiliate program with SoFi.
I emailed DRB about a concern that I had, and turns out it is valid. With a federal student loan, if you pass away unexpectedly then your debt is forgiven. However, with a loan from DRB if you pass away the debt is assessed to your estate and your spouse gets stuck with the debt. I don’t plan on dying any time soon, but there is no way my wife could ever pay off my $400k of dental school debt if I passed unexpectedly. As much as I would love to refinance and a get a lower rate, for that reason I don’t think I can do it unless they come up with a solution. I have not emailed SoFi yet, but I am sure it is the same with them too.
Thank you for that comment. I hadn’t thought to ask that question. You definitely have to weigh the interest savings against that risk. Keep in mind that with a big loan like that you might be able to buy an extra $400K 5-10 year life insurance policy with the interest savings and STILL come out ahead with refinancing.
For example, if your average loan is 7.5% on $400K, and you can refinance at 5.5%, then that’s $8K per year in interest savings. A $400K 10 year level premium term insurance policy for a healthy 30 year old male is only $133 per year.
Agreed on using term insurance to cover your estate in the case of death. Regarding covering yourself in the case of disability, you can do something similar with disability insurance. In fact, some disability insurance providers offer an add-on specifically for paying down student loans in the event you become disabled and can no longer work in your field. The costs for this is also small relative to the savings from a lower rate on your student loans.
Thanks you for the responses! I already have a great disability policy. I will just need to bump my life up a little. I am seriously considering this. I really want that lower rate, it will probably save me 100k or so over the life of the loan.
I think everyone should be considering it. If I had loans I’d have already done this with one of these two companies. Refinancing is pretty close to a no-brainer for the vast majority of med school graduates from the last 5-10 years.
The lenders probably don’t want to talk about this much, but these private student loans are probably easier to discharge in bankruptcy too according to this guy:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steve-rhode/some-private-student-loan_b_3652935.html
I wouldn’t count on it, but if they’re not going to let them disappear at your death like federal student loans, they can’t expect to get the special bankruptcy protection. That’s why they have relatively strict underwriting criteria.
Hi Brian, Elizabeth from SoFi here. As long as your wife is not a co-signer on your loan, your student loans would be forgiven if you passed away. Feel free to reach out to our customer service team directly with any questions like this: 855-456-7634.
According to DRB, they can refinance loans in all 50 states. SoFi can do it in 40 states and is planning to expand.
https://www.sofi.com/refinance-loan-eligibility/
WHI, any recs for a good provider for disability insurance? Want to purchase befor graduating residency soon!
I recommend an independent agent who can sell you a policy from any company. You’ll notice two who advertise on this blog if you glance at the banner ads in the left column. I’d trust either if I were in the market for disability insurance.
Regarding the variable rate, there is no cap to how much it can go up from year to year (with an overall max of 18 percent).
Is there any way I can see how historically the variable rate has changed? Could I potentially be paying 10 percent come next year?
Check this site out which shows historical 3 Month LIBOR going back to 1986:
http://www.macrotrends.net/1433/historical-libor-rates-chart
As you can see we are at historic lows, and we have been that way for a while. In addition, there are times when LIBOR makes big jumps over a one year period, so your question is a valid one. My advice is, if you are considering the variable, don’t try and predict when rates will move, and by how much, think about what it would mean for you if they do move-will you be able to handle higher monthly payments (ie. do you expect your salary to increase over time) and/or might you be in a position to prepay a portion or the whole loan if rates go up? If the answer is yes to these questions the variable could be a good choice and good way to save money. If not, it may not be worth the risk.
Another thing to consider is splitting your loan into part fixed and part floating to mitigate some of the interest rate risk of all floating.
How does refinancing affect your credit score (if at all)? Once you do so with DRB or SoFi, is the loan still considered “good debt” (or at least “could be worse debt” as I like to think of it) like student loans or a mortgage, or does it become a private consumer loan? Brian’s comment above re: leaving DRB loan debt to your spouse if you die makes me think the loan could lose all benefits of being a student loan (including how it is viewed by potential creditors). Other than losing IBR and PSLF benefits, this would be the one remaining thing keeping me from refinancing.
As an aside, I just started a 6 year urology residency and as far as I can tell I won’t be eligible to refinance until after I get out- is this true?
No, it is still a student loan. But I’m not sure why you think that somehow helps your credit score. “Type of credit” only makes up 10% of your score. Pay your bills on time and your credit score will be adequate to do anything you need it for.
You don’t want to refinance as a resident, because you probably need the lower IBR payments.
Thanks for the clarification, that is helpful. By using credit score, I was meaning to get more at how my debt is viewed overall, rather than the actual raw score. My wife and I recently took out a mortgage on our first house. When I was initially shopping around, one of the first banks I spoke with quoted me at around 4%. After they realized my debt was all student loans, the quote dropped to somewhere in the high 2’s. Needless to say, I didn’t move forward with this lender, but I do believe the type of debt you carry matters more than the 10% that merely goes into calculating a credit score. There’s a human element to it, too.
Thanks for writing this blog. I find it extremely valuable and feel fortunate I was able to come across it early on. I’m looking forward to keeping up over the coming years.
Anyone have any luck financing with DRB? They’ve give me the cold shoulder since I submitted my application a month ago. I got approved from SoFi for a variable rate in the mid 4% (no explanation why I didn’t get the more competitive rate – I pay all my bills on time but have a lot of debt and my credit score is in the 700s). Wondering if this whole process is too good to be true…
Thank you for sharing your experience. Why not call SOFI and ask why you didn’t qualify for the better rate? Also, I wouldn’t be surprised to see the ball dropped. As the word gets out about these companies refinancing student loans, I expect them to see pretty rapid growth that may even overwhelm their relatively small staff. Since it is worth so much money to you to get a refinance, I’d bug them enough that they can’t ignore you. They may tell you they’re not willing to refinance you for some reason, but “the cold shoulder” shouldn’t be an option.
I was informed by DRB that they have contacted the above commenter and “worked out this issue.” Due to privacy issues, they didn’t feel comfortable mentioning that here and it wouldn’t be appropriate for them to share the details with me or on the internet. Kevin may share the details about how it was worked out if he feels so inclined.
I was able to reach someone from drb over the phone who was helpful. I was a little frustrated that my emails weren’t returned but it seems to be working out now. I did contact sofi and received this response:
SoFi considers a variety of factors when making lending decisions about your student loan refinance application. Decisions are based on your personal circumstances at the time of application and include, but are not limited to: Credit, income, work experience as well as debt burden capacity analysis.
I had a similar experience as the previous poster. Submitted an application over a month ago to DRB. Several emails and phone calls later, haven’t heard a word. When I call their number, I get a secretary that transfers me to voicemail. Can’t get in touch with anyone that can talk to me about my application.
I know they follow this thread, so hopefully they will contact you soon. If they ask me for your contact information, would you like me to pass it along?
Definitely pass it along. I’d like to do business with them so I’m hoping I hear from them relatively soon.
He just emailed me so I’ll send your info to him. That was fast, no? I guess they’re pretty backed up.
Thanks for the help WCI. They did get back to me and yes, that was quick! I’m looking forward to working with them. Thanks again.
Jake-I apologize for the experience you had with DRB and hope we can rectify the situation quickly. As was mentioned previously, DRB has seen a strong response to this refi loan, and our staff has been bit a stretched. We will certainly be in touch quickly to resolve your issue.
In addition, please note we are adding more staff to the team to make sure nothing like this happens again. We are very excited about working with and investing in White Coat Investor members as well as other health professionals, and will ensure that our service matches up to the service levels you deserve.
Thank you for the response, looking forward to working with you.
I just withdrew my application from DRB. Two months since my application and no progress. I emailed them again a week ago and nobody responded. You call their office # and get redirected to someone’s voicemail. Very poor customer service, I’d recommend avoiding DRB. I sent an application in to SoFi, and had someone calling me within 24 hours. SoFi’s rates look pretty comparable to DRB too. I probably would have gone with them originally but they were restricting their applications to graduates of schools to which they had alumni support. They have recently opened it up to include most schools (maybe all in the US, not sure). Anyway, they seem like a much better lender to do business with – just FYI.
This whole thing has made me wonder if DRB is even legit to be honest. I’ll be keeping a close eye on my credit report…
In response to the posting above, please note the following:
1. DRB is an FDIC insured bank in Connecticut. Please feel free to look us up on the below FDIC website.
http://www2.fdic.gov/idasp/main.asp.
Just type in our name in the “Institution Name” section. This should provide you comfort that we are an established and regulated institution.
2. As I mentioned in an above post, when we first launched this program for doctors, the response was overwhelming, and we were not able to provide the service and response time that our borrowers deserve. Since then, we have improved our processes significantly and hired a larger team to ensure all of our applicants receive the highest level of service. I will not comment on the specifics of the post above, but I will say that this type of experience is atypical for our borrowers. Right now, we respond to all email questions within 1 business day and have many more people available to answer and return calls during business hours.
3. We have already save hundreds of borrowers thousands of dollars each on their student loans and continue to do so every day. Our rates are by far the lowest in the country and lower than the competitors referred to on this site. For those of you who want the lowest rates in the market, I would suggest you apply to DRB, as we currently offer the best rates and are improving our service every day.
I just finished my refi w/DRB – they seemed reasonably responsive albeit the whole process took a while.
I ended w/a 2.99 variable. I’ll certainly be watching my credit and loan closely to make sure nothing suspicious goes on.
Please see #1 in my post above:
DRB is an FDIC insured bank in Connecticut. Please feel free to look us up on the below FDIC website.
http://www2.fdic.gov/idasp/main.asp.
Just type in our name in the “Institution Name” section. This should provide you comfort that we are an established and regulated institution.
I have to say i am losing interest in DRB. I applied around Thanksgiving and never heard anything. I called them a few weeks ago and was told I passed underwriting and I should hear from them soon. Still nothing. Then today I read on Yelp that you can’t link your outside bank account through the DRB website and that you have to use BillPay from your outside account to make electronic payments to receive the .25% discount.
I will not comment on the specific situation of the person in the above posting, but only reiterate that we have made tremendous progress on our service levels and responses times since Thanksgiving/December, so please be assured that if you are a current applicant or if you apply in the future, you will receive fast and reliable service (as well as some of the lowest rates in the country).
Regarding making automated/electronic payments, all borrowers are able to make automated payments, including both standard monthly payments and any prepayments, either through their current bank account, which can be linked to a DRB account, or through any BillPay system, whichever they prefer. All payments are received into a DRB bank account and then withdrawn/credited automatically against their loan. For those who have specific questions on the details of this process, please do not hesitate to call/email the bank.
AA’s statement about electronic payments is blatantly false. After 3 months of phone calls, long wait times, and never returned emails, I finally got all my paperwork and the loan approved. And now I was now told that in order to get the auto pay discount (0.25%) I have to open a DRB checking account to make the payment. I can’t use my regular (Wells Fargo) checking account.
I like where he says if you have questions to call/email the back. Has he tried doing this!! You’ll never get a live person and in the off chance that you do they will transfer you to a number that goes to voicemail. DRB makes the post office seem efficient.
A DRB checking account is opened automatically as part of the loan closing process (the checking account has no fees and no minimum balance). The DRB account acts as the borrower’s repository for all payments (both monthly and prepayments), and this account can be linked to another bank, certainly a Wells Fargo account, so that payments can be made electronically from that account. This process requires no additional application/work for the borrower and allows for automated payments from a checking account or an electronic bill payment system. DRB currently has many borrowers using this automated process without any issues. I implore you to please call/email the bank again if you have questions on this (203-309-3940 or [email protected]), and I am sure they will resolve your issues (faster than the post office would).
Does it make sense to only consolidate unsubsidized loans if these are the bulk majority and the government is still paying down interest on the subsidized ones for 2 more years? The unsubsidized loans are about $150,000 and the subsidized ones are ~$30,000
No, you don’t want to refinance subsidized loans currently being subsidized. Consider yourself lucky to have them. Nobody is getting them any more.
Just finished talking to DRB representative, very professional, despite refuse to proceed with my application because I have no collateral, unless i get a cosign.
What kind of collateral were they looking for? Was a physician’s income not adequate?
He ask about mortgage, but I’m renting. I explained to him that I have an old Camry and work as a hospitalist for more than a year. He wish me luck and urge me to reapply with a cosign.
Who did he want to cosign for you? Your parent who is retired or your Uncle who makes $45K a year? That’s bizarre. Their loss I guess. Did you try SoFi? I’m curious if they require some kind of collateral too. You’re the first to mention this requirement. It certainly wasn’t a requirement to get the student loans in the first place!
DRB’s student refinance loans are unsecured, which means we do not ask for any collateral. We do, however, look at a borrower’s income relative to their monthly obligations (e.g., student loan payments, mortgage/rent, car payments, revolving credit, etc.) to ensure the borrower will have enough monthly free cash flow to be able to pay down the loan over time. Typically, a doctor working full time (post-residency) will have sufficient income relative to their monthly obligations to qualify for a DRB student loan. However, if for any reason we find that this is not the case (e.g., above average monthly obligations and/or below average income), we do encourage borrowers to apply with a co-signer. Please note that while this debt to income requirement may not been part of the process to obtain the original student loans, the rates that the original lender offered were probably much higher than ours. In order for DRB to offer our very low rates, we need to run these type of debt to income assessments as part of our underwriting process.
Dear AA and all,
I applied back in December after initially hearing good things on this site about DRBank. I was initially skeptical but upon seeing a good response (initially) I felt that I was safe to apply. Indeed their customer service was in need of some help–after submitting an application no confirmation email is sent and no one contacts you to let you know that information was received. As days went by I contacted them via the general email and within a day received an email reply which designated my officer. He initially was very helpful and responsive to my emails and told me that additional information was needed. I submitted this over 1 month ago and made sure my officer confirmed receipt of my fax and he states it was passed on to the undersigners. It is now one month later and I have still heard nothing back. I emailed my officer–no reply. I emailed DRbank’s general refinancing email–no reply. I finally called the refinance phone number now provided on their website to inquire about my status and got no answer, only a voicemail which was not exactly professional-sounding. Hopefully I get a call back tomorrow, as the voicemail promises, but given the lack of replies thus far (indicating that AA’s promises back in December about improving customer service is as of yet unrealized) I am not holding my breath. So after I again searched “DRBank scam” and felt somewhat relieved by lack of results I have resigned to posting here in hopes that doing so will expedite my application and improve communication.
Thanks
Sorry to hear about your experience. I’ll pass your email along to AA if he asks for it. I don’t think there is a scam here, but based on some of the other comments, it isn’t exactly a streamlined process yet.
Thanks. Got 2 phone calls and an email today from DRB. This Forum is the best way to get a prompt response. Fingers crossed things go smooth from here on. Will keep everyone updated.
Bad publicity on the web isn’t good for any business. I’m glad I could help both sides in this transaction that will benefit both sides.
Update on DRB. Since posting I would say communication and follow up with DRB went up dramatically. I faced the same problem others are facing and decided that it would be in my best interest (pun intended) to lock in now with a cosigner. I have now been conditionally approved and am awaiting finalization. Rates did go up since my first application but they matched the original for my cosigner application since I had already applied before, which I think speaks highly of them. Things were rough at first but I think DRB is making significant progress and is very receptive to feedback. I would like to thank AA and the members of his team who helped facilitate things and would recommend them to other members on this site who are considering refinancing.
I had an interesting chat with the DRB folks today.
There are a number of doctors who aren’t qualifying to have their loans refinanced due to a terrible debt to income ratio. Thus the talk about co-signers. Most of these are residents who are eager to start getting their loans paid off. Residents simply can’t afford to make payments on a $200-300K loan on a salary of $50K. That’s why the IBR program exists. There are, however, some attendings, with an income of $150-160K, but with debt burdens of $400-500K, who also don’t qualify. It simply doesn’t make good business sense. Would you loan 3 times someone’s annual salary to them without collateral or a co-signer? I wouldn’t either. It is a sad state of affairs that it can cost 3 times a physician’s gross salary to educate a physician. Apparently the government is willing to lend students money in situations where no sensible businessman would.
They’re also making some significant changes so they can handle a much higher volume of refinances. There are something like 16K medical students graduating from medical school each year. Thus far DRB is refinancing about 100 a month but they are ramping up rapidly. Obviously there is a huge gap between those numbers.
Just an update on my experience with DRB. I had some communications issues with them when I applied to refinance in November and felt like I had to stay on top of my rep to ensure that the transaction had closed. However, I’ve been happy thus far. I agree that customer service still needs work (I’m still waiting for my login info for the DRB website after a week for example, which I need in order to easily make an additional payment per month), but the monthly payment process has gone smoothly.
I will add that I’m a lawyer two years into my practice at a big law firm, so I don’t have some of the same problems that you doctors are facing.
I have 196k in debt from dental school. I am on track to have it all paid off in 4 years. I’m applying through DRB and debating between the 2.99 variable and the 5.25 fixed for 10 and making extra payments on top of that. What do you think is best for my situation?
4 years? I’d risk the 3% variable. But if rates go up dramatically in the next year you may end up paying more.
My wife is a resident, and has ~$130k in med school loans, at 6.8%. I previously submitted an application to SoFi, though the rate was not much better than what we have. The SoFi application asks for her income, which I stated ~$60k. Would SoFi or DRB accept our joint income, which is $155-160k? The application made no mention of joint income. If so what rates do you think are possible given her good credit and our joint income?
I don’t know the answer to those questions, but I bet you could get them answered in 2 minutes on the phone with SoFi. Would you mind sharing here once you find out?
For DRB, if you co-signed on her loan, then the joint income would be considered. If the application is approved, she would get our current rates as indicated on our site- probably significantly lower than your current rates.
Thank you for the prompt reply. I will discuss with the wife. If we go forward, fixed vs variable will be our next decision point. I am leaning towards variable, given rates and our payback horizon.
Hi Scott – Elizabeth from SoFi here – we’d be happy to talk to you about your cosigner/joint income options, just give us a call: 855.456.7634 we’re here until 8pm PST tonight.
Great posts! I just purchased the Kindle version of the WCI last night, and along with the website everything is top notch. I’m currently an Orthopaedic resident, and had a couple comments/questions regarding issues that most surgical subspecialty residents are probably concerned about as well (longer training years, higher income post fellowship).
1. IBR: I extensively went over this with my finance dean in med school, and basically concluded there is no benefit as long as you adequately save. This may seem like a bold statement but allow me to explain. In IBR, you pay a fixed amount which usually goes toward your accumulating interest and rarely touches the principal. Interest still accumulates in both subsidized/unsubsidized loan types.
This is to the contrary of forbearance, of which is the avenue I opted to pursue. You still accumulate the same interest on your subsidized/unsubsidized loans, but essentially do not pay your lender anything. However, all this money saved is not only available to you if you would happen to need it during residency (emergency, kids, home repairs, etc) but if your situation allows you can pay a lump sum prior to graduating residency. The benefit, as above, is two-fold: you prevent “x” amount of that accumulated interest in residency from being converted to principal (as long as you are punctual in forbearance applications) and you have that money to potentially invest/use should the situation arise. IBR essentially collects this “lump sum” in smaller installments over the course of your residency.
WCI or anyone else, feel free to correct me on the above, but I believe it is correct. This, of course, is null and void if you plan on participating in the PSLF program, but most surgical sub-specialists that i’ve talked to really aren’t considering that option.
2. Sofi/DRB: It’s unfortunate both of these institutions do not consider residents viable candidates for their services. I understand the debt/income ratios and such, but if I can get a physician loan for my house with absolutely no money down and zero collateral (other than proof of contract), it seems they are missing out on some sure-handed business. I’m certainly not advocating the physician home mortgage for all comers, btw, just a point. I would absolutely love to decrease all of the accumulating interest that is occurring during residency, but I essentially have no alternative given lack of collateral/equity in my home.
Of course, some folks ask their parents for a loan via a 2nd mortgage through their parents bank, but asking for this would go against everything I believe in.
3. In my situation, this all ties back to the question whether I should be saving money to pay off my loans or start a Roth IRA/529 (recent newborn). This is a topic for another forum, but certainly pertinent.
Appreciate any comments!
A few thoughts on your lengthy comment:
1) IBR is better than forebearance for two reasons. First, essentially everyone can get IBR easily, but forebearance involves more hassle. Second, IBR payments (even tiny ones) count toward IBR forgiveness (20 years) and PSLF forgiveness (10 years.) I think the best time to decide whether to go for PSLF is upon completion of training when you are undergoing a job hunt. A highly trained surgical subspecialist may have made 5-7 years of IBR payments and stands to receive a huge amount of PSLF by staying on as faculty for a few years, or by taking another job with a 501(c)3. Forebearance would be a huge mistake for someone otherwise eligible for PSLF. Sure, if you’re going to pay all your loans back, then forebearance isn’t much different from making tiny IBR payments. However, it is different and you seem to have some misconception that interest accumulated on an unsubsidized loan in forebearance is somehow different from interest accumulated on an unsubsidized loan on which IBR payments smaller than the interest due are made. I do not believe this is correct. Interest is interest, and the more of it that you accumulate, the more you will owe. Sure, if you can somehow invest the money and earn more on the investment than the interest rate, then you can come out ahead, but given that most current residents have loans of 6.8-8% or more, that’s a pretty big gamble, especially given low interest rates. Although most surgical sub-specialists you’ve talked to aren’t really considering that option, I think that’s probably a mistake. If you run the numbers, you’ll see that even for a specialty with a short training period like FM or EM PSLF works out well. It works out even better if you spend 5-7 years in residency/fellowship making IBR payments. I think you, and the other surgeons you’ve talked to, are probably making a mistake doing forebearance. It might be a very minor mistake, or potentially a huge one (if the doc is otherwise eligible, or can be eligible, for PSLF.)
2. Remember when you buy a house and default on it the bank gets the house and gets to ruin your credit rating. If you refinance a student loan and default on it, the bank gets to ruin your credit rating but doesn’t actually get anything worth any money to them. Sure, docs are a pretty good bet, but they default too, especially when you consider their student loans may be the equivalent of 2-3 times their annual salary.
3. Check out this post: https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/student-loans-vs-investing/ or the relevant section in the book.
I think we agree with the interest issue: the same amount will accrue regardless if IBR or forbearance. My point was that if you choose forbearance, the interest is not converted to principal until you start repayment, which typically is after residency. You can pay whatever you want toward your loan before that date (or nothing), and you won’t be paying interest on the interest that builds in residency. Of course if you choose forbearance, you lose out on the PSLF and monthly payment regimen.
If I would’ve read this blog earlier in my career, I probably would have chosen IBR. A lot of factors go into that statement, but I would agree with pretty much all of your points.
Point taken on the SoFi and DRB issue.
My recent experience with DRB: I applied in Feb. 2014 to refinance my 6.8% Stafford loans, which total about $29,000. I’m a a government attorney and make about $57,000.
Without calling or emailing me, DRB cancelled my application online, with a form statement that I failed to meet lender requirements. When I emailed for clarification, they said my debt to income ratio was too high, regardless of good credit history and great history paying down the loans from their original amount of $65,000.
I can re-apply with a cosigner. Ha. Thanks, DRB.
Sorry to hear about your experience. Did you try anyone else, like SoFi?
That’s seriously weird. 30K is such a low amount. Also, why on earth does anyone need $4500/month net income after paying student loans and housing? How much are they expecting us to need for gas and groceries? Wouldn’t someone who has that much leftover income just use it to bump up their monthly student loan payments by 2 or 3K? As it is, with 5.25% interest, you’re only paying about $325 in loans each month. If you add $2,000 per month to your payments, you would have your loan paid off in a little over one year. The bank wouldn’t be able to make any money off you if they require you to have so much leftover income that you could just pay off your loans in a year outright. Why on earth would they have this policy? With your very low loan amount and even your mediocre salary, you seem to be a pretty good credit risk.
Thanks – I’m currently applying with SoFi, although their rates are not as good as DRB’s.
I did get in touch with DRB’s loan origination partner campusdoor.com, who explained that my debt to income ratio was actually fine and below their threshold, but I failed DRB’s “income to living expense” test, which requires $4,500/month left over after rent, loan payments, and other expenses (i.e., the average amount of my [non-revolving] credit card expenses each month).
Without $4,500/month ($54,000/year *after* rent, loan payment, and other expenses), it’s not worth applying with DRB without a cosigner.
I’ll update on the SoFi process in a couple of days.
I was planning on applying for DRB refinancing at the end of residency. Looking at ~330k med school debt, starting salary 185k. I’ve run the numbers and know I can afford the 10 or 15yr fixed plan, but the above post has me worried I won’t qualify.
How exactly do they calculate this? How do they know what you pay for rent? How do they know what your other expenses are, e.g. child-care? If you put everything on a debit instead of credit card, would it change the results? Are you penalized for using a 401(k) and other pre-tax savings plans since it reduces your net income each month? Maybe I’ll just have to go through it and find out on my own….
Let us know how it goes. Your DTI ratio is close to, but not as high as some who have been turned down. Perhaps AA can reveal a little bit about the underwriting process so people can have some idea if it is even possible with numbers like yours.
$330K at 5% for 10 years is $4000 a month. $185K/year is $15416 per month, before tax. Servicing that debt will require 26% of your gross income. I can see why a business might not want to take a bet on you. A 15 year would reduce that to $3153, or 20%. It’s doable if you live like a resident for a few years, but that makes for a pretty tight budget after taxes, a mortgage of any reasonable size, a car payment, and family related expenses. Boosting income and growing into that income as slowly as you can is going to be your key to success with that massive debt burden. If I were you I’d be looking for a 501(c)3 position and going for PSLF given your debt burden and prospective income.
WCI, as always your input is much appreciated. I’ve previously run the numbers, and it causes me a bit of stress. IF I’d discovered this website at 22 instead of 29, life would be a little different. Thankfully, we have no consumer debt. I looked a lot at PSLF, but unfortunately in the area I’m looking almost all physician groups are contracted to provide their services, and the groups are not 501(c)3. Going to areas where this is more of an option are technically not impossible, but basically so from a family standpoint. We’re moving to a lower cost-of-living area and will try to mooch the grandparents for some childcare for awhile. We’re pretty realistic about the state we’re in, and know that short term sacrifice will provide long term benefits. I’ll re-post in a few months when I figure it all out.
I don’t want to sugarcoat this, you’ve definitely got some work and sacrifice ahead of you. You should be a little stressed. But don’t let it keep you up at night. Even after paying taxes and your student loans each month, you’re still going to have more money to spend than the average American, and eventually, you’ll be doing quite well. Pray for inflation!
We also look at other debt (ie. car payments) when making our underwriting decision, so it is hard to give an answer based the data provided above. AM, if you want, let’s speak on the phone, and I would be happy to run the numbers before you apply to give you a sense of your eligibility. Please email [email protected] and we can setup a time to speak.
Perhaps this is dumb question, but does refinancing with either group affect the way creditworthiness is calculated? For example with loans being listed under sallie mae for federal plus loans etc was this considered “good debt” and now after refinancing do our loans just look like regular expense loans which might make our debt to income ratio look worse for future credit applications, say for a auto or home loan etc?
DTI shouldn’t really change. I believe it is still considered “a student loan” but that doesn’t affect your credit score much if at all.
Jeremy – #4 in this SoFi blog should answer this (and other credit-related questions) you have: https://www.sofi.com/blog/student-loan-smarts-student-loans-affect-credit-score/
Hello,
My wife and I are both finishing residency with signed contracts in excess of $700,000/yr gross combined. We have each have educational debt in the neighborhood of $380,000. I also emailed DRB about a month ago but am very interested in doing a 10 year variable rate loan for both my debt and my wife’s.
Thanks!
I’ll pass your email along to AA as I’m sure he’d like to FU with you.
Jake – let us know if SoFi can help you out too – you can just give us a call: 855-456-7634
Something to keep in mind with a variable rate is the interest rate cap. With SoFi you know you won’t have to worry about your interest rate going above 8.95%. According to DRB’s website, their cap is 18%.
For SoFi, my undergrad is listed (no undergrad debt), my med school isn’t (painful amount of med school debt). Does that make me eligible? Also, may have been mentioned above, but can you do a hybrid variable/fixed interest rate with Sofi?
Hi AM – yes, you should apply via your undergrad school to refinance your medical school debt. You just had to graduate from an eligible institution, you don’t have to have debt from it. As for getting a hybrid loan, we can definitely help with that. While we don’t offer one loan that mixes both rates – you can split your loans into two SoFi ReFi loans – one fixed, one variable – and get the desired end result. Just give us a call and we’d be happy to discuss your personal situation: 855-456-7634
I’ve been following your blog and thanks for all the helps and tips!
I’m a 2nd year dental student and by the time I graduate, I’d rack up ~340k in debt. As your 3rd option in the blog, you mentioned about converting your high-rate, non-deductible, non-forgiveable, student loan interest into low-rate, deductible, forgiveable mortgage interest.
Could you elaborate on that more? I called Chase and Bank of America, and they don’t offer services like that. I’m wondering if I can get more information about that (my parents are willing to buy a house for me after graduation). Thanks!
Imagine you have $200K in student loans. Imagine also you own a $500K home and have a $200K mortgage on it. If you do a “cash-out” refinance on the home, you could take out $200K and use it to pay your student loans. Voila, you’ve converted your student loan debt into mortgage debt.
I did this with my rental house. The let you refinance to 70% of your homes value. Since you can only cash to 70% this trick will only work if you already have a significant amount of equity built up in your house. The interest rate isn’t as good on a cash out refinance as it would be if you were buying a house but it’s better than 6.8%. Plus the interest becomes deductible. There’s really no negative to it as long as you go with a company that doesn’t hose you with fees. I used rateone and was quite pleased. Got just over 30k back that I immediately threw at 6.8% loans.
We had a great experience with both DRB and SOFI. My wife got a rate of 2.75% variable on 155k in loans from DRB. Admittedly her DRB experience took a while and setting up the autopay is a bit of a pain but I’d do it again in a heartbeat. I had her apply roughly 45 seconds after this blog originally went up. Her DRB application did take over a month to go through. I’m sure they are swamped with an overwhelming response of people desperate to dump loans at 6.8 % or worse. My experience with SOFI was smoother than hers with DRB and I ended up with a variable rate of 3.9%. If you can pay the loans off quickly like we are doing I would go with a variable rate especially if you could potentially throw emergency fund money or taxable investments toward the balance in the unlikely event of rapidly rising increasing interest rates. I referred my friend to DRB and he opted for the half and half as he can’t pay back the loans as fast so that’s a nice option to hedge your bets so to speak. If the rates really sky rocketed to 18% I think we’d all have a lot more to worry about than student loan payments. Love both companies. Wish they had been around 5 years ago but glad they’re here now!
Update on my SoFi experience:
Applied around Feb. 20th. About a week later, I had a message that my application was being processed and they would contact me within 1-2 business days. 1 business day passed…then 2….then 3….then 4. I called them last week to check the status and the rep told me they would update me on Friday, or Monday at the latest. Didn’t happen.
Today is Tuesday, so I called again. The new rep I got apologized and immediately sent me a pre-approval email [Note: While annoying, SoFi’s application and approval process was still much easier and quicker then DRB and its loan origination partner campusdoor.com]. Anyway, the upshot is that SoFi offered me the following options:
5-year fixed rate of 6.240%, or 5.990% with AutoPay;
10 year fixed rate loan at a rate of 6.625%, 6.375% with AutoPay; and
10 year variable rate loan at a starting rate of 5.160%, 4.910% with AutoPay.
I’m currently thinking that it’s only worth it to refinance if I go from my current rate of 6.55% to the variable rate of 4.91%. I’ve never had a variable rate loan and I’m hesitant to switch for what is, at most, about $800 saved in interest over the life of the loan, with the possibility of rates rising toward or my current rate (no idea what the chances of that happening are).
If I refinance at 5.99%, then I’m saving maybe $250, which is too small for the nuisance of switching loan owners and servicers, setting up a new auto-pay, the inevitable delay in payments as the switch is made and the previous servicer is paid-off, learning how to work with a new servicer, and so on.
For anyone interested in doing a refi at 5.99 fixed, CommonBond offers 10 year fixed at 5.99 to everyone who qualifies, and preapproval is MUCH easier with CommonBond than with SoFi. I’m not sure it’s worth it to refi at 5.99 either, but it might be for some people.
I spoke with them the other day and emphasized the importance of getting their rates competitive with SoFi and DRB. There just isn’t much point in refinancing to 6% if you’re already there. Customer service and less hassle is important, but in the end, you’re refinancing for a lower rate and that’s what you need most.
Hi CS – Now that you’ve got your options from us we’d love to discuss these with you and help you make the right decision for your situation. Give us a call: 855-456-7634.
Is it better to go with a variable or a fixed rate? We are looking at DRB.
My fiance has about 350K with a weighted rate of about 6% for the total.
I am worried that the variable rate may rise as it is tied to the Libor.
Currently, DRB is offering her:
15 year variable between 2.74-3.74% assuming automated withdrawal.
20 year variable 3.74%
5 yr fixed 4.75%
10 yr fixed 5.25%
15 yr fixed 5.75%
Fine print says variable rates adjusted Q3 months. We plan to pay these off within the next 5 years or so.
Which option seems the best?
The variable may rise, that is the risk. You can pay someone else to take that risk for you by getting a fixed rate. Do you think that’s a fair price? If so, take the fixed. If not, take the variable. My own opinion, as one who did not have loans, is that I would take the variable and pay the loans off in less than 5 years. I think the risk of getting killed on a variable rate in less than 5 years is pretty low. Remember if you’re paying loans off over 5 years but rates don’t rise for 2-3 years, you’re still coming out ahead with the variable. Plus, if the variable rate goes to the sky, you can prioritize the payments, stopping 401(k) contributions, redirecting your down payment etc etc.
Now, this all assumes you could still make the higher payments. If you’re right at the edge of your budget, maybe you better pay someone else to take the interest rate risk for you.
We were considering going variable, but my in-laws are both bankers, and both seem to be convinced that the LIBOR is headed for sharp increases in early 2015.
So they’re shorting long treasuries? Because if not it doesn’t sound like they’re so sure.
I have multiple loans from med school, all at different rates. $20K at 5%, $75k at 6.5% and another $20k at 4.5%.
Sofi quoted me 4.625% for a 5yr fixed and 5.74% for a 10 yr fixed. I’m almost a year out of residency, scheduled to make $165-$180k per year. I also have a 784 credit score. So I was surprised I didn’t get a lower APR with sofi. I just came across this post and think i’ll contact drbank since they advertise 4.75% for a 10 yr fixed. I don’t think I could comfortably pay it off in 5yrs.
Yes, refinancing isn’t such a good deal unless you’ve got a 6-8% loans.
I have a quick question for DRB. I am a graduate from a foreign medical school. I completed my residency in the US and secured federal funding for my loans. Am I eligible for consolidation from DRB? I tried to apply on their website but there is nothing for attending medical school outside of the US. Any thoughts
It depends on the medical school-some are eligible and some are not. If you have federal loans, then likely you are eligible.
Please call us to discuss your personal situation-203-309-3950.
So just to be clear, as a PGY3 with 2 years left in residency and likely 1 left in fellowship, and $260K in loans at 6.8%, I have to wait until after fellowship or just slightly before that to refinance – is that correct?
Is there anyone out there refinancing in residency with a cosigner? Is it a completely unreasonable aspiration to make these payments ourself? I’m projected to have salary of 300K+ after residency and with no other commitments would like to pay that back within 2-3 years, but hate the thought of my accruing interest at 6.8% while I sit here helpless for 3 years.
Three reasons to wait until you’re done with training to refinance- 1) Banks will actually refinance you, 2) You can still get the lower IBR/PAYE payments while in training, and 3) If you take a PSLF-eligible job upon completion, you’re still eligible.
You can pay back your 6.8% loans during residency, nothing stopping you. But $200K in loans at 6.8% is something like $14K in interest per year. Hard to make much headway against that on a salary of $50K. I don’t know of anyone refinancing residents right now. The loan to income ratio is too high.
I’m a dentist who graduated in 2011 with about $300k in student loans. Interest ranged from 5-8.25%. I had been trying to do my best to pay things off and have $142,000 left which I just refinanced through DRB. I took the variable rate of 3.49%, with a minimum payment of $1,015/month. I plan to pay this off in less than 5 years. I was paying $3,000-5,000/month before, and will be able to save a good amount in interest, plus it gives me options to allocate some of the money towards retirement and other investments. The DRB application process took a while, maybe 4 weeks, but it was worth it in the end
Thanks for sharing your experience.
SoFi has been nothing but frustrating to deal with. After about a month of waiting for an application to be processed, I inquired as to the status and immediately got a denial with no contact to supplement the application or reason for the denial. Credit score is over 800 and I have a lot of income and no other debt. I understand they’re busy but they’re almost impossible to get on the phone and the service is really terrible.
I am now refinancing the loans with Darien Rowayton who is so far much easier to deal with and it feels like they’re actually taking time to review my application. Hopefully I’ll have better luck this time. Now that DR has the same 9% max cap on the variable rate, there’s no reason to go with SoFi.
Sorry to hear about your experience with SoFi. Glad DRB is meeting your needs. I hope to see all of these companies offering ever-lower rates and ever-better service but there have definitely been a lot of growing pains that readers of this site have experienced directly.
After about a month and a half, we’re finally approved! DRB was very easy to deal with and I was able to talk to real people who took a vested interest in our loan. The approval process and submitting all documentation was a little tedious through email delays every 2 or 3 days, but it’s hard to beat 3.48% vs the 6.55% we were paying to the feds.
Meanwhile my wife still gets letters from SoFi saying we’re pre-approved, despite their previous denials.
Thank you for sharing your experience.
This is a fantastic and informative post. I was looking for information on DRB, specifically, and this was helpful.
I want to clarify one point, however. If you refinance student loans into your mortgage, I’m not 100 percent sure that you can discharge that debt in bankruptcy. I mean obviously the goal would be to avoid bankruptcy altogether, but if something went wrong I’m not convinced it would even be an option.
People have been trying that trick for quite some time with credit cards, and long story short you can end up in prison:
http://www.clearpointcreditcounselingsolutions.org/putting-student-loans-on-credit-cards-filing-bankruptcy/
I don’t see why a mortgage would be any different.
A mortgage would secure the note by mortgaging your house, so trying to game the system would be less attractive than credit cards, since you’d be losing your home. One way it could still offer a perverse incentive would be some sort of second mortgage where you leverage your home for more than it’s worth. Still, fraud is fraud.
You still lose everything in bankruptcy (including the home.) It’s not like there is no penalty for doing so. But if you go bankrupt with student loans, they’re still there.
Proving someone turned student loan debt into credit card debt with intent to default on it seems difficult to me. I’m not sure a typical bank is going to go looking for that in bankruptcy proceedings.
At any rate, I’m not saying your goal should be to get rid of the debt through bankruptcy. I’m suggesting turning a high-interest, non-deductible loan into a low-interest, deductible one AND THEN PAYING IT OFF.
four years out of residency. mix of sub/unsub/private loans close to $400k with average 5% for sub/unsub, 8% for plus and 3.5% for private. transitioning from SDG to 501c3 hospital employee in six months. salary $220k but planning to max out 503 and 457b so that drops it down to $190k. PSLF or Sofi or IBR?
How many payments have you made already as a 501(c)3 employee? 3 years worth? Probably still better making minimum PAYE payments and going for PSLF, but you’ll have to stay there for 7 more years. While the private loans won’t be forgiven, you’re not going to get much of a better rate with SoFi or DRB.
While I worked for 4 years at a 501c3, this was for a SDG and not as a hospital employee, so I’m under the impression that those four years of payments would not qualify. As I left residency, I selected the extended payment plan, so I’m also not sure that those payments would qualify. I am considering changing this to a 10 or 15 year repayment, but that would be contingent on having enough month to month to survive.
If they weren’t IBR, ICR, or PAYE payments you made in residency, then they don’t count toward PSLF and you’ve still got 10 years worth of payments to make. If that’s the case, you may still be better off refinancing and paying them off. I have a post coming up on this subject soon, so stay tuned.
I am a physician assistant with a ~100K/year salary. I have minimal debt and an excellent credit score.
My husband has just started a three year residency. He has $110K in med school loans with an average interest rate of 7%.
He applied to DRB and said he would need a cosigner because of the income to debt ratio (even with my salary reported).
My question is, can anyone think of a reason why I would not want to be a cosigner? His life insurance policy would easily cover his debt in the event of his death. Would this affect my credit enough to make it difficult for us to get a reasonable mortgage rate on a house after his fellowship or a good auto loan rate?
No, unless you’re planning on getting divorced, I’d co-sign it.
One reason NOT to refinance as a resident is that you are no longer eligible for PAYE or PSLF. You can’t get those lower payments in residency or the possibility of forgiveness. Granted, those are less of an issue with you working and with his relatively low debt, but something to think about before pulling the trigger.
Thanks for the advice. I’ve submitted an application to be the cosigner and am just waiting now. The chances of me divorcing him will be lower if we can ditch some of this debt 😉
We’d like to get plow through it in less than 10 years so we are just going to go for it and forgo PAYE or PSLF; we would probably never get that anyway. Thanks again!
I’m pretty bummed. I applied at DRB, got approved, and started sending in my required paperwork. Today, I just got a notice stating that, in fact, my debt to income ratio is too high, thus my application is being canceled. No request for additional information, no suggestion that I add a co-signer, no nothing. I am so frustrated that I was given the initial approval. There is nothing that I have provided since the initial approval that has changed my debt to income ratio. I feel like I was bait and switched.
FYI, unlike most of you on the site, I’m an attorney, not a doctor. My salary is ~$70k base without bonuses right now and I have ~$200k in student loans. I own my own house and pay about $1000 per month to my mortgage. Best of luck to everyone else.
Sorry to hear about your experience. Have you looked into the other providers?
I haven’t looked into other providers yet, but plan to. Aside from SoFi, anyone else you recommend or know of?
Oddly enough, today I got a few emails from DRB telling me that they had received and were processing my paperwork… I’ll give them a call to get the real deal and post what happens.
Thanks!
You can also try Common Bond or CU Student loans. There are a couple more. I’ll be doing a post on them soon.
I spoke with DRB. They told me that in fact my debt to income ratio was alright, and that my credit was fine… but that I needed to have $5,000.00 per month left over every month after paying all of my debts (my debts are limited to my student loans and mortgage). I won’t be in that boat for a little while, but when I am, I’ll definitely try this out again.
I do wish that DRB had advertised this prior to my credit being pulled. I obviously would not have gone through a hard credit check if I had known I would automatically not be qualified.
Thanks for following up with me!
ACM, my experience with DRB was very similar to yours: I was approved, submitted all my documentation, and was rejected outright with no cosigner option provided. Notably, my application was marked “no option to reapply.” Since reading these comments, I’ve learned that my rejection is likely due to the required $4,500-$5,000 extra post-expenses (though this was never explained to me, I was told my debt-income ratio was too high, which could perhaps also be true).
I’m also an attorney making $90K with $200K in loans, no other debt (but rent around $1,200), great credit score, etc. I don’t think I know anyone with grad school debt that has $5K extra around each month — if we had it, we’d be using it to pay down loans faster or purchasing homes!
Sorry to hear about your experience, but also relieved to know I’m not the only one. Seems like DRB’s ratios aren’t as in tune with law school debt/experiences as they are with med school. I’m currently applying through SoFi, fingers crossed.
Good luck, MKM! And please post your experience. I know this isn’t a b-law-g, but I’m definitely curious to see how other new attorneys are handling their loans. If SoFi works for you, I would definitely give it a try.
ACM: As an update, I refinanced with SoFi and am LOVING it so far. Cut my interest rate in half, cut 10 years off the lifetime of my loan, and estimate that I’ll save $60K minimum (likely closer to $100K in interest over the lifetime of the loan). My monthly payments remain roughly the same ($1,600), but instead of paying 95% interest/5% principal (thanks Sallie Mae), I’m flipping the equation. In fact, in the FIRST MONTH, more went to principal than in the entire YEAR of payments I’ve made in 2014. No-brainer as far as I’m concerned. I’d definitely recommend trying SoFi — good luck!
Thank you so much for the update, and congratulations! I got an email from SoFi about a week ago to try them out, and based on your update, I’m going to give this another go.
I just graduated residency and heard about this through a banner ad on this site while researching something else. I’ve got about 160k on debt with income over 200k. Question: If I am gonna apply for this, should I make it to where my credit card balance is zero to get the best rate?? Basically I spend all of my money on credit, then pay off the balance every month. But right now, because of interstate move/getting set up in new city, it’s a bit higher than usual (like $3,800). Should I pay that down before applying for these refinance loans to maximize my chances for the best rate? (Can they see* that I have that outstanding?)
By the way, this site is an enormously helpful resource. I will definitely be following link through here to SoFi if I go that route. And… can we put you Dahle as a “referrer” if we go through DRB?
I do appreciate you putting down the site as a referrer, but since DRB is paying me for banner ads, I doubt they will pay me any kind of referral fee.
I’m not sure of the answer to your question though. It’s a bit of a black box. I can’t imagine having $3800 in credit card debt (which they can see if its on your credit report, which it probably is, even if you pay it off each month) is going to make a huge difference.
Okay, yeah I guess that makes sense. I heard somewhere that it might make a difference, but your right, seems hardly likely, such a small proportion of the total. Anyways, thanks for the input.
I am by no means an expert, but I would imagine it’s unimportant unless:
1) That $3,800 is a substantial portion of your available credit in general or on that card, or
2) That $3,800 is spread over several cards.
If you are utilizing over 50% of your available credit, or are close to maxing out that card, that may be a red flag. Also if you have a lot of accounts with a balance that can be a factor as well. It’s better to have a healthy (<20%) utilization ratio and fewer accounts with open balances.
That’s a great summary of it I think. I started looking into it more and I agree with this. In my case it’s a single card with a limit of 13k, for a utilization ratio of 29% this month… which made me a little nervous. So actually what I’ve done now is figure out how to pay it off early without interrupting my auto-pay feature (which was what I was afraid of), just so that’s not a factor on the application.
Also, does anyone know how volatile (appropriate word?) the LIBOR is? I’m thinking of opting for a variable rate with intended pay off in 3-4, max 5 years. Could the variability in the rate really change that much over a short period of time?
Yes, it could change a lot. It just depends. In 1993 12 month LIBOR was 3.5. In 1994 it was 7.75. Hard to say how likely that is. If I was going to pay my loans off in 5 years though, I’d probably run that risk.
Hmm… Good to know, but I think I agree with you. Will see what I can get anyways…
Hi,
I have more than $110K in debt. I have loan approval from SoFi for 15-yr fixed and now, I am debating should I go with 15-yr variable. It brings down the monthly payment by roughly $150 (rate is about 2.5% lower). Is it worth it for long run. I am thinking variable may just put stress. What are your thoughts?
Another thing that I was thinking was if I take variable, but put few hundred dollars more per month (as I would save some vs. fixed). Would this make any difference in decision regarding the risk for variable especially 15-yr term?
Your prompt response would be appreciate. And by the way, I just love thise site.
Best,
Chuck
My two cents is that a variable over 15 years would make me very nervous… What’s the max rate? That being said I’m obviously no expert as asking my own questions above. But who knows, if the extra money you save by the lower interest rate let’s you hammer down the principal significantly, then the interest rate will matter less…
Steve, thanks for your input. Max is 9.95%.
Currently, my weighted average for existing loans, that I am refinancing, is around 7.25%. So comparing with variable, I would have roughly 4% margin for now before I break even if LIBOR increases. For last 5 yrs LIBOR hasn’t moved but I think time has come that it might move and if it moved by 4% and more and stayed there then I would have not saved anything and perhaps spent more.
I wanted to hear some opinions and thoughts from others who have gone through the process or could provide more insights.
Best,
Chuck
Don’t compare it to your current rate. Compare it to the currently available fixed rate. If you can get 3% variable, and 5% fixed, and you pay off your loans in 4 years, but rates rise in 2, you’ll probably still come out ahead since you’ve paid off much of the loan by the time rates go up. The bank is paying you to run the interest rate risk. If you think you’re paid adequately, take the variable. If not, take the fixed.
If you’re really going to carry it for 15 years, I’d get it fixed. If you think you can pay it off in 2-5 years, I’d risk the variable and pay extra.
Thanks for all the info! This is becoming my new favorite website!
Quick Question: I have 120k and 8.8yrs left on student loan. Just received approval from DRB, fixed at 5.5%. At what point in paying off your student loan is it not profitable to refinance? I’ve read on a few websites that after even after a couple years of paying off student loans you’ve already payed off more than half of your interest and it may not be wise to refinance due to amortization schedules. I’ve looked for online calculators and have not been successful in finding one to answer my question. I’m getting frustrated because I want to be sure this is a good decision… Any help would be very appreciated!
oh P.S. I bought your book! and have already recommended this site to colleagues… it has been really helpful!
If you keep the payment term the same, a lower rate is always better. What you don’t want to do is pay for 5 years on a 10 year loan, then refinance it into a 10 year loan. Then you’re making payments for 15 years instead of 10. But if you pay extra on that new loan, such that it is the equivalent of a 5 year loan, you’re still done in 10 years and you save interest. Does that make sense?
Very informative blog. I also wanted to share my experience with both SoFi and DRB. I have to say the application process with DRB was easier because with SoFi it took them awhile to approve me and thus some of my documents (like paystub) became stale. Both of these companies though failed to inform me that they were missing some of documents so I had to keep calling them to ask them about my application process. I have about 87K in law school debt, and Sofi gave me 5.79 (with .25 reduction if I signed up for direct deposit) and DRB gave me 5.50 (with .25 reduction if I sign up with an account with them). I have no idea which one to pick. I was thinking of going with SOFI because they offer some benefits that DRB doesn’t (like helping you find a job if you lose yours, so they say). But at the same time I kind of want to be greedy and save .25 in lower interest. Any help will be much appreciated.
0.25 is 0.25 if they both approve you, I’d probably take the lower rate. I am skeptical that SoFi is putting serious resources behind helping lawyers (and especially doctors) “find a job.”
Sorry for the super long post, but I’ve completed the process now, and wanted to share my experience for whatever it’s worth to those who may be looking into it:
I applied to SoFi and DRB on the same day about 41 days ago. Firstly, completing both applications one quickly realizes SoFi is very streamlined for this process. DRB, however, actually uses a separate website (Campusdoor.com) to process the application, which is very cumbersome and seems poorly developed for the actual application. In fact, it’s such an unusual web app that at multiple times they notify you that you will receive emails from campusdoor.com stating you need to submit more documents, but that you should ignore those emails. That is made more confusing by the “document upload” interface of campusdoor, which is clearly made to handle a wide variety of documents outside the scope of refinance. There’s so many options, it’s really difficult to guess which one DRB actually wants you to use. And you would think that the language on the DRB instructions would match exactly the options on the website. You’d be wrong about that.
In contrast, dealing with SoFi was straightforward. They also have an online chat window, which I found quite helpful while completing my app because questions are answered real-time, with minimal inconvenience. For DRB you have to call them, which isn’t bad, I don’t mind using phones. However, they seem to have a distinct habit of disconnecting the call. Maybe this was unique to me calling, but many times I would call, they’d ask for my info, and then it would disconnect, with my VoIP stating they had disconnected. Particularly their agent “Sheila”. Accidental disconnections are normal, but interacting with DRB seemed way beyond that.
Timing: SoFi made me an offer 13 days after my initial application (including time for document verification) for a 5-year variable rate 3.28%, so 3.03% after autopay deduction.
Not bad, but I was hoping for better. So I waited for DRB.
Waiting for DRB is a difficult process… Their web interface is poor enough to leave you in doubt, and then you can’t get anywhere with their customer service reps because of the disconnections. They even have a habit of asking for your name and phone number before disconnecting.
And then their website keeps sending you emails stating that you didn’t submit your documents correctly. Now, they warn you about this, but it does become unnerving as you’re waiting to keep getting those emails.
After more than one month of waiting, weeks after SoFi’s offer, I was speaking to Sheila at DRB trying to inquire about my loan. As per usual, the line went dead after I told her my name and contact info. At this point frustrated, I called back and challenged her about hanging up. And well, as soon as I mentioned “hanging up” the line went dead again. Now, am I absolutely sure that she and their other agents are hanging up intentionally?? No, absolutely not. They may just have a really terrible phone system there. It doesn’t really matter to me though. After that I just accepted SoFi’s offer and am going with it.
Keep in mind, I had been waiting for more than 3 extra weeks for an offer from DRB after getting one from SoFi. That’s several hundred dollars of savings lost considering the refinance I could have already obtained. I was disappointed though, had really wanted a rate lower than 3%.
Anyways, DRB finally got back to me a couple days ago (total wait time for offer 35 days, vs 13 total with SoFi) via email with their offer: 2.88%, so that would be like 2.66% after autopay deduction (assuming minimum rate). That works out to over $50 a month savings over SoFi at my debt burden. Well after trying to work with them, DRB can keep their offer.
Anyways, just my experience, YMMV. Good luck guys.
I can state that we were the first customers for DRB, when they first started off with the private funding program. My wife went to NYU school of dentistry. By the time she graduated, she came out with a whooping 250K in college debt in 2013. At that point in time, most of her loans were financed by the federal government at around 7.9% fixed. i think that was ridiculous. We started analyzing all the options which the government had to offer. The only benefit they had was, that if you died or became disabled, all your debt is written off. that’s the ONLY benefit which we lost when we opted to go with DRB. We choose DRB because it approved us for a variable interest rate of 2.75 and a fixed interest rate of 5.25%. we decided to break the amount we owed in half fixed and half variable. So we got an average interest rate of around 4.2% over the entire balance we owed. Still 50% lower than what the fed government had to offer. The variable rate is based on LIBOR. which is at all time low. we do realize that the only way for this index is to go up from now. However, please bear in mind that rates are based on a 3 month libor. which means the rate can change every three months. We keep a close eye on the libor index. If the interest rates become abnormally high (like 8% and above), we have 90 days to take a loan against the 401K and home equity and we will apply it towards the variable part of the loan. SO far we are being very aggressive to pay off the fixed part of the loan. we are down to 142K now. There are two main reasons for this drastic decision we have made
A) from a tax prespective, you only get to deduct 2500 bucks for tuition interest payments you made in the given year, this deduction goes away if you make over 150K (for doctors – its easy to make over 150K in your 3rd and 4th year)
B) if you are disable, died, you are screwed because you are still liable to pay for all this debt
Long story short, i believe we made a good decision in moving away from federal and going to private lending. my hope is to stay alive and safe 🙂
Secondly, i was thinking of getting a life insurance policy which can help us cover for this debt incase something happens to either one of us…
please comment and provide your suggestions for the same.
I agree carrying a little extra insurance is a good idea. I also think your idea of splitting the difference between variable and fixed was reasonable. The sooner you can pay it off, the less risk there is in running the interest rate risk yourself (instead of paying the bank to do so.)
Dear Whitecoat Investor
If you have any other ideas, please post them and distribute
I do, three times a week on the blog and more often in the comments sections!
We have been pretty disappointed so far with DRB. We refinanced my wifes medical school loans with DRB. They seem disorganized and the customer service is lacking. We have been with them for about 6 months now and they still haven’t been able to successfully bill the correct checking account in the correct amount. They used to use Iowa Student Loan as a servicer which allowed us to login and at least make sure the account got paid every month manually but now they have gone on their own and decided to service their loans themselves. I think this is a terrible idea as Iowa Student Loan servicing seemed to be the only functional part of their operation.
We set up a DRB checking account but they have not been able to successfully set up a recurring transfer from our local Wells Fargo to that DRB checking account, let alone from that account to their loan account. It took a few months after the loan started for these payments to start happening and when they did the amount was wrong necessitating yet another paper form.
We refinanced half as fixed and half as variable and currently they have managed to draw from two different accounts to pay the two different loans. DRB seems to be technically challenged. The website is terrible to use, the kind of thing you would have expected in the 1990s. Any changes are made on paper then scanned and emailed to them. They send emails that contain no information but instead a link to a program that you have to type a password into to see the email, takes forever and non-private type emails are included. We have tried to call but all we got was someone to take a message and they would “get back to us” which never happened.
Anyway I thought I would post my wife and my experience with DRB. At this point we are regretting refinancing and would un-do it if we could. Yes the rate is lower but we were planning to pay off pretty quickly anyway and at least the federal loan servicers provide decent customer support and a website that allows automated payments and extrapayments. With DRB we feel like we have to watch them constantly to make sure it gets paid every month and in the correct amount (we had one month where they were withdrawling a random amount from our checking) despite trying to automate the process.
I don’t know if they are just overwhelmed by the demand being the only bank in this business or what but I would avoid until they get organized, the savings is just not enough for all the time and trouble.
I agree with Cameron his assessment. It seems that they are lagging behind because of demand. what was the rate you got approved for and how much was the amount? i am thinking of refinancing with citizens trufit loan. however they are based on 1 month libor which means the rates have the potential to change every month. the cap on the loan is 9% + prime or 12% + 1 month libor what ever is lower. i am still the assessment mode to check if its worth it. citizens bank is a subsidiary of RBS.
Andy,
I have also been considering citizens. They are currently offering 2.8% variable with 0.25% off for auto pay and 0.25% off if you have a citizens account (like a credit card or a checking account) when you submit your application, bringing the rate down to 2.3%. Thanks for letting us know regarding the cap.
Hi Bob
Just be careful on how much you debt you are taking on the variable 2.3%. Citizen is offering a lower rate also because they are based on 1 Month Libor. DRB sucks with their services but they are offering 2.75% to 2.80% variable at 3 Month Libor. If you are now aware of the difference between 1 month libor and 3 month libor, it is important that you do. The one month libor can change 12 times a year whereas a 3 month libor can change 4 times a year (every quarter). This means that if the libor goes up drastically, with DRB’s 3 month libor it will give you 90 days to respond to the debt (refinance and go fixed, if you choose to take money from your 401K, IRA, other resources at your desposal etc). With 1 month libor you have less lead time to respond if they jack up the rates. with Libor as of now we are good because the euro economy is not doing well. However if the US fed jacks up the prime rates, libor will follow.
SO my suggestion, if you have 100K in debt, just put 50% in libor and 50% in fixed that way you hedge the risk
In my opinion, the sooner you can pay off the debt the more interest rate risk you can run. If I thought I could get my student loans paid off in 2 years, I’d make it all variable. If rates go up after a year, I’d probably still come out ahead. If I was planning to pay off the loans over 15 years, I’d probably go 100% fixed.
Hi Everyone. I appreciate this blog – it has been very helpful. I had a quick question regarding the $4500-$5000 income requirement that previous posters had commented on as part of the debt-to-income ratio. Is this before or after taxes?
yes thats correct. your income is pre tax for calculation of DTI
I’ve been following this thread from the get-go, finished residency in June with private med school debt accruing interest up to 340k (ouch). I initially applied to DRB b/c I had called both companies during residency and they did a better job answering questions. After not hearing anything back for 2 weeks I decided to also apply through SoFi (much simpler process; you can just take pictures of documents and upload them). Twice I got emails from DRB saying they needed more info; each time I reached out to them and they told me they did indeed already have everything. About 1.5 weeks after applying to SoFi my loan was approved; 15yr fixed at 6.24% (5.99% with autopay). I wasn’t expecting their best rates given my big debt load, but it’s still 1.5% lower than my prior combined interest rate. A week later (so 3 weeks slower) I was approved by DRB for 6.5%. Overall I thought SoFi’s process was much smoother, quicker, and for me a better deal. Of course I wish I had less debt or a lower rate, but at least now it’s all in once place with a plan for making it go away.
Thank you for posting this–it has been very helpful! I applied to DRB, but was advised that my DTI was too high and to re-apply with a co-signer. My understanding is that their DTI requirement is 40%. I have a net monthly income of $4,167, existing student loan payments of $625/month and a $259 monthly car payment. I do not carry a balance on my credit card and do not have any other debt. They did not ask for rent payment information, so I assume that’s not part of the equation. Is DTI not debts/income (for me, (625+259)/4167=21%, or, with rent (625+259+500)/4167=33%)? Is there something I am missing? If not, is there anything I can do? I appreciate any advice you can offer.
I believe your calculation is correct. I wonder if you have their DTI requirement wrong. Did you ask them that question?
Sydney,
I was denied by DRB as well when I first applied. I called in and spoke with Aaron at the bank to determine why my application had been denied and he confirmed that not only do they have a DTI requirement, but they also require that applicants have at least $3500/month in expendable income. For me personally, after rent was taken out, I fell below this base requirement. Fortunately I was able to re-apply with a cosigner and was approved. Perhaps you are encountering the same issue with their underwriting requirements?
Thank you both for your notes. I actually followed up with DRB and they had simply miscalculated it. I was approved when it was recalculated.
WCI, thanks for the post. What are your thoughts on smaller loans? I currently have a 10% interest rate on about a currently 20k loan, and have been paying it down over the last 6 months (was 30k, now just under 20k). There is admittedly another loan lurking in the wings with a lower interest rate, but I was able to subsidize a lot of education (and graduated much older as a result…). The high-interest loan could theoretically disappear in 5-10 months, so if I figure $500 saved per interest point per year then my savings might run in the 1750 range. It’s a lot of work for companies that have historical 3-month approval/payment times both here and on the BBB site, but if it works that’s a decent payoff. And in case it hasn’t floated, there is a pretty good ACEP promo for SoFi right now.
Are you an attending? If so, why would you drag a $20K loan out for 6 months? That’s a heck of an investment and would be a major financial priority for me. The smaller the loan, the faster you should be able to pay it off and the less benefit you would see with refinancing.
Yes. Good point — actually, I don’t know why it would take that long. Initially we had to hold pretty tight with post-residency moving costs and pay cycle shift, so my projection is actually based on a severely diluted 6 month average. At this point we can target a budget review and finalize focused clearance. Thanks.
It’s so tricky that first year, isn’t it! So many docs run into problems in that time period. But if you live a lifestyle somewhat similar to what you had as a resident, the money ought to be piling up pretty fast in your checking account within a few months.
Holy cow, yes! We thought we had planned ahead SO well, and of course the transition between pay checks takes longer than you really expect compared to necessary expenses. We seem to have stabilized now. And we may have made the budget a little tight by dumping most of my resident salary into a 401k for rollover while I moonlighted… just maybe… 🙂
First, I would like to say thank you for posting this! It has been very helpful in navigating the relatively uncharted (these days) waters of student loan refinancing. It is good to see lenders stepping back into the arena of SL refinancing.
I have just been approved with DRB, and I would like to add that my experience has been positive overall. DRB will be paying off my current lender in January, so I hope to report back in the future on how the transaction goes.
However, I have had a terrible experience with SoFi. I have found them to be very misleading in their advertisement of how and when they check your credit report, which is a very big deal for me. Their website clearly states that checking rates for any of their loan products will NOT hurt your credit score – which implies that they will only do a soft inquiry with the credit reporting agencies.
I went through the process of “checking rates” for available lending products, which is NOT a full loan application. A few days later I receive a notice of adverse action from SoFi stating they had pulled my entire credit report, which means that a hard inquiry has been placed on my report and will be on there for the next two years. As I stated before, this is a very big deal for me. I am in the process of building and maintaining a good credit score, and so every hard inquiry hurts my credit. Had I known that a simple “rate check” procedure would result in a hard inquiry I would have steered clear of SoFi.
It is also significant that my experience is far from an isolated incident. As of right now (12/10/2014) SoFi has an “F” rating with the BBB. 14 complaints have been filed with the BBB concerning SoFi, and SoFi has not responded to 5 of those complaints. Of the complaints that SoFi has made an attempt to mitigate, many of them have not been resolved to the consumer’s satisfaction, despite a “good-faith” effort on the part of SoFi.
Elizabeth (SoFi Rep), I would very much like to hear your response on this. For a company seeking to assist young men and women saddled with crippling student loan debt, why do you have an “F” rating with the BBB? Why have customer’s (or potential customer’s) issues not been resolved by your CSR’s? I am interested in having the hard inquiry removed from my credit report, and I would like to be able to leave SoFi with a good review of how they worked to make this mistake right. I would like to be able to support a company that is stepping into the realm of student loan refinancing, since it is something that is essential to many of us seeking to repay our student loans.
If we can get this inquiry removed I would be happy to do just that. However, if no steps are taken, I will be filing a report with the Consumer Finance Protection Bureau to see if there is a way for them to assist me.
Thanks for the wonderful info. I currently have 2 federal loans at 6.55% but the rest are 5.8 and below. Would you recommend my refinancing only these two?
Nj
We had 260k in dental student loan when my wife graduated in 2013. We refinanced the amount with DRB. What you want to do is refinance but do not consolidate. If you consolidate it will be harder to manage your cash flow. So refi with drb but don’t make it all single payment. Call me and I can add my two cents. [email protected]
(Read the book, follow the blog, great contribution to the medical field) I’ve been reading through the chain and have 2 main questions. Briefly, I’m a PGY2 with ~200K of debt, mostly at 6.8%, all government. I’m currently in the IBR repayment with $0 payments for the first year.
1. Through IBR, the government will pay the interest on my subsidized loans (totaling roughly $40,000) for up to 3 years. Should I wait until this benefit expires to re-fi?
2. Can I re-fi at a fixed rate during residency and then re-fi again after residency at a variable rate, anticipating that I will be able to quickly pay off my debt as an attending?
1. You can just refi the unsubsidized loans I bet.
2. Sure, why not? But rates may be higher later of course.
On DRB’s website, they have a page for residents and fellows that mentions if you refinance with them your payment will be $100 throughout residency (and for up to six months after completing training). I know this article was written several years ago and it doesn’t sound like this used to be an option. Has anyone done this or have any thoughts on it?
Yes, I have a lot of thoughts on it. Here you go:
https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/drb-starts-refinancing-student-loans-for-residents/
Be sure to read the comments.
I was approved by SOFI and I decide to compare with DRB. Received the approval from DBR and now thy are telling me it takes a month to lock in an interest rate! Does not seem this company has improved since the comments I read back in 2013. I told the CSR that I have a SOFI approval and waiting 30 days was not an option. He told me good luck with my loan! Guess SOFI it is.
Good demonstration of why to apply with more than one company.
I am considering refinancing my loans. Will I still be eligible for REPAYE or PAYE programs? Thanks.
No. Don’t refinance until you are sure you don’t want/need those programs.
WCI, thank you for this awesome site. Can I get your perspective on my scenario?
I’m in my first year of fellowship and I refinanced my federal loans with DRB a few months back. My current loan balance is $235K at 6.6%.
1) If I understand correctly, the interest will accrue based on the initial principal only, and will not update (capitalize) until the beginning of the repayment schedule? Does this mean that every month I will accrue roughly $1,300 in interest and that will remain flat? And that after 2 years I will have accrued $31,200 in interest which will then capitalize all at once when the grace period is over?
2) I have a strong savings rate right now on my fellowship salary where I can make payments to cover the accruing interest and some of the principal as well. I will also be paying off the loans very aggressively once when I graduate. Given the high interest rate, do you recommend I make these payments now because I can or should I prioritize other things?
If you can provide some guidance on this that would be great – thank you!
1) Don’t know. Read the terms of the agreement with DRB. It should specify if interest is only on the principle. I wouldn’t expect it to be though. That’s a pretty high rate to refinance into. What were you before and why did you refinance instead of just doing REPAYE during your training? Are you married to a high earner or something?
2) 6.6% is a pretty awesome guaranteed return. I mean, a Roth IRA is great but it’s tough to pass up 6.6% to do that. Hard decision, but I’d probably pay on the loans. I would also refinance again as soon as you have an attending contract in hand.
Hi, really helpful site. Thank you, and I hope to give you a referral.
Two questions:
1. Would the TOTAL AMOUNT PAID be the SAME between:
IBR (~$1000/mo) + overpayment of $3500 versus Standard repayment of $4500 for 10yrs?
I am trying to decide whether to stay in IBR or move to the standard repayment plan.
2. Which leads me to my second question. I believe I qualify for 4yrs worth of non-profit payments. Would it be smart to shoot for PSLF? Would I be saving in total money versus the standard repayment plan?
Thank you in advance for any replies!
1. If the rates are the same, then yes. Same thing. If you’re going to the standard repayment plan and planning to pay back the loans, why not refinance for a lower rate? If you plan to go for PSLF, why not just stay with IBR? It’s not like payments ever go over the standard repayment plan like with REPAYE.
2. You need 10 years of payments. Are you going to get 10 years of payments? 4 doesn’t do you any good at all.
Hi. I am wondering if I should refinance in my situation. I am a 4th year medical student on a 3 year HPSP, so I had to take out a year of loans for my first year of school, now at 6% interest rate due to SCRA. I will be doing a 3 year military residency and 4 years of payback, likely no fellowship, so I’ll have 7 years of active duty at that point. I know 10 years in the military making monthly payments would forgive the loan completely with PSLF, but with my debt only being from one year and me not being decided yet whether I’ll make a career out of the military/federal employment, I’m not sure if I would want to forgo refinancing and do the extra 3 years to get the PSLF since I could already have 7 years under my belt at that point. Another option I am considering is maybe I could do my military time and then go work for a qualified non-profit organization for 3 years. Would that work? From a monetary standpoint, should I refinance before going into residency and just get this paid off quickly? Or should I keep my federal loans and go for the PSLF, keeping in mind my debt is only from one year? Also, do you know whether making monthly payments on federal loans during military residency count towards PSLF?
Why do you owe 4 years instead of 3?
But yes, you could go work for a non-profit afterward. But for only one year of loans? Maybe just pay them off. Yes, payments made during a military residency should count.
I took the sign-on bonus. Since I was unsure of specialty at that point, I was thinking might as well get the sign-on bonus just in case I did a 4+ year residency. I wasn’t bothered if I had to owe back an extra year if I were to end up doing just a 3 year residency. Since then I decided pediatrics and will probably do gen peds.
I’m just starting as attending this fall and have been doing IBR and have made 6 years of payments toward the 120 for PSLF. I have $60k in non-direct loans that I never consolidated to be eligible for PSLF and $200k in direct-loans that I plan to have forgiven by PSLF in 4 years. All are currently with FedLoan. My institution offers up to $20k in loan assistance, and I want to maximize this, without “paying ahead” and affecting my PSLF payments ( I read recently that some of the people applying for PSLF forgiveness are not eligible because they paid more the an minimums which meant they didn’t meet the requirement of 120 payments made.)
1) Does anyone know if you can make payments to certain PSLF-ineligible loans within FedLoan system? Can this be done without negatively affecting PSLF 120-payment status?
2) Is there any reason I couldn’t re-finance the $60k which was never rolled into direct loans, to SoFi or similar? I realize this portion would no longer be eligible for IBR which I am still using, but I’d still be able to use IBR for the remaining portion right?
Any pointers would be appreciated!
You can pay more than the minimum without disqualifying yourself, it just reduces the amount that is left to be forgiven.
1) Yes, I believe so. Those loans aren’t eligible for PSLF anyway.
2) No. I would do that ASAP, especially if the rate is lower than what you’re getting with IBR, especially now that you can afford larger payments. If it were me, I’d try to have that $60K paid off by summer.