By Dr. James M. Dahle, WCI Founder
Ahh, you have finally made it. Four years in college, four years in medical school, three to five more in residency, and one to three more in fellowship and you're finally making the big bucks. You've just started getting your first five-figure paychecks and you feel like you have some money that you don't need to spend on this month's necessities. You've got a couple hundred thousand dollars worth of student loans hanging over your head, a big mortgage, and even a little bit of credit card debt. But you're also looking at a huge tax bill, and besides, you don't want to work forever, so you've been studying up on 401(k)s and IRAs. You are financially at the place to ask yourself if you should pay off student loans or invest but how do you decide when to pay down loans and when to invest?
Should I Pay Off Student Loans or Invest?
It turns out it can be a pretty personal decision, and there are a lot of factors that come into play, including loan interest rates, current interest rates and inflation, expected returns on your portfolio, current tax bracket, tax-sheltered accounts available to you, attitude about debt, and personal risk profile. I'll first discuss seven factors to think about, then list ten rules of thumb to follow, and finally give you eleven specific recommendations to help you decide when to pay off student loans and when to invest.
- 7 Factors to Think About
- 10 Rules of Thumb
- 11 Recommendations for You
- Today's Best Student Loan Refinancing Deals
#1 Student Loan Interest Rates
The higher the interest rate on your loans, the faster you should try to pay them off. Remember to look at the after-tax rate of the loans. For instance, if you make less than a Modified Adjusted Gross Income (MAGI) of $70,000-$85,000 ($140,000-$170,000 married) the interest on your student loans is deductible. If your marginal tax bracket (federal plus state) is 27%, and your loan interest rate is 8% AND your interest is fully-deductible, then your after-tax rate is 5.84%.
8%*(1-27%) = 5.84%.
Part or all of your mortgage interest may also be deductible for you.
Credit cards and car loans are not deductible. For many Americans and even many physicians, their best investment, no matter their tax bracket, is paying down high-interest-rate consumer debt. If your credit card debt is accumulating interest at 22%, you should pay that down as your first priority. That's a guaranteed 22% investment. You won't find that anywhere, with or without a tax break.
On the other hand, many of my med school classmates were able to refinance their student loans at less than 1% back in 2003. Although Dave Ramsey recommends paying off all your debts ASAP, many wise people are willing to carry non-callable debt at very low-interest rates because of the opportunity costs you would give up by paying it off. What's the opportunity? It's the opportunity to borrow at 1% while earning 5 or even 10% on your investments. That arbitrage on $200,000 could be worth as much as $18,000 a year. That's not risk-free or tax-free, of course, but it can work out pretty well.
If you haven't refinanced student loans recently, you might be surprised how low of an interest rate you can get. And if you go through our affiliate links in the chart below, you will not only get the lowest rates available, but you will also get hundreds of dollars in cash back.

Variable 4.54% - 11.72% APR
Fixed 3.95% - 9.19% APR
† Bonus includes cash rebates and value of free course. Borrowers who refinance more than $60,000 in student loans using the WCI links will be enrolled in The White Coat Investor’s flagship course, Fire Your Financial Advisor for free ($799 value). Borrowers will still receive the amazing cash rebates that WCI has negotiated with each lender. Offer valid for loan applications submitted from May 1, 2021 through June 30, 2023. Free course must be claimed within 90 days of loan disbursement. To claim free course enrollment, visit https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/RefiBonus.
#2 Current Interest Rates and Inflation
If your loans are at 3%, inflation is at 4%, and your savings account is paying 5%, it is easy to see mathematically why you might not want to prioritize paying that loan down. Let me give you an example. In 1993 I took out a $5000 loan for undergraduate studies. It was a great loan from my state, with fantastic terms. It was 8% interest, but the interest didn't accumulate and I didn't have to make payments while I was in college . . . in medical school . . . in residency . . . or in military service. I paid the loan off in full in one lump-sum payment when I got out of the military in 2010, just before it started accumulating interest. I spent 1993 dollars, and I paid it back with the same amount of 2010 dollars. Of course, 2010 dollars were only worth 66 cents of a 1993 dollar. In essence, I borrowed $5,000, and only paid back $3,300, and I got to use the money for 17 years for free. Moral of the story? When you're borrowing money at rates below current levels of inflation or the long-term inflation rate, you might want to think twice before rushing to pay it back. The CPI year-over-year inflation rate can be found here.
Likewise, when you're borrowing money at rates below guaranteed safe investment rates (such as money market funds, CDs, or FDIC-insured savings accounts), you might not want to pay it back too quickly. Remember, of course, to adjust both rates for your current tax situation. Borrowing money at a non-deductible interest rate of 5% to invest at 6% (4% after-tax) isn't exactly a winning proposition. This is particularly a problem at times of low interest rates. If inflation is over 5%, but you still can't get more than about 1% in a risk-free investment, then borrowing at 3% to invest in safe investments probably doesn't make sense.
#3 Expected Returns
I mentioned earlier that paying off a loan with 22% interest is a no-brainer. That's because the expected returns on investments available to you are nowhere near that. Don't believe me? Imagine a world where 22% after-inflation returns were available to investors. You could save 25% of your income for 7 years and retire. Do you know anyone who did that? Me neither. Although estimates differ depending on who you ask, most experts agree that you can expect nominal (pre-inflation) stock market returns of 5%-10% over the long run and bond returns of 2%-5%. Naturally, those returns aren't guaranteed. It's one thing to borrow money at 3% and invest it at a guaranteed 5%. It's entirely different to borrow it at 8% and invest it in the stock market that may or may not beat that return. An enlightening poll on the Bogleheads forum once asked at what loan interest rate an investor ought to invest instead of paying down the loan. The mean answer was 5%, but there was quite a bit of variation, from 2% to 10%. I think 5% is about right. Most loans at an interest rate above that should be given a pretty high priority.
#4 Current Tax Bracket
Two investors who both have completely deductible 8% mortgages but differ in one important aspect. The first lives in Texas and is in the 12% federal tax bracket and the 0% state bracket. The second, in California, is in the 35% federal bracket and the 9% state bracket. The after-tax interest rate for the first is 7.04%, but it is only 4.32% for the second. The second might very reasonably conclude that they should invest whereas the first might decide to pay down the mortgage. That high tax bracket investor might also decide to invest instead of paying down the loan because they save a higher percentage of income by contributing to their 401(k) or other accounts. The Texan only gets a 12% tax break for 401(k) contributions, but the Californian gets a 44% tax break. Conclusion: The higher your tax bracket the less anxious you should be to pay down debt over investing in a tax-sheltered account, especially tax-deductible debt.
#5 Available Tax-Sheltered Accounts
We saw above that the tax code can really mess with the loan vs investment decision. The plethora of tax shelters available make the decision even more complicated. For instance, I might prefer to invest in a 401(k) where I get a big tax break before paying down a 6% loan, but might prefer to pay down the loan before investing in a taxable account. A resident who expects to soon be in a high tax bracket might prefer to get more money into a Roth IRA where it will never be taxed again rather than pay down his loans. Even college savings accounts, UGMA accounts, and health savings accounts offer some type of tax break to the investor. The more tax breaks available to you as an investor, the more you should lean toward investing instead of paying down loans.
#6 Attitude Toward Debt
Many of us hate debt, no matter what the interest rate. I was listening to Dave Ramsey the other night when a caller called in asking if he should use his spare cash to pay off his mortgage. Dave's suggestion was to pay it off, then in a few months if he really missed it he could take out another one. Obviously, nobody does that. There is a wonderful feeling associated with not owing anyone anything. Owning a house free and clear of the bank and knowing it can't be foreclosed on (as long as you pay your property taxes that is) provides a great deal of security. Not having student loans also provides financial freedom in that you need less cash flow to service them, and thus can work fewer hours, take a more attractive job that happens to pay less, or retire earlier. There is also the behavioral factor. Many of us say we'll invest instead of paying down a loan, but in reality, we spend the money. Obviously, paying down a loan is more likely to help your bottom line than blowing your cash on hookers and coke. The more you hate debt, the more you should lean toward paying off your loans, even if the interest rates are reasonably low. If you think debt is the best thing since sliced bread, I suggest you read the tale of “Market-Timer” a Bogleheads poster who managed as a grad student to lose a few hundred thousand dollars borrowed on credit cards and invested on margin in stock market futures.
#7 Personal Risk Profile
Investors differ in their need, ability, and desire to take risk. If you are a relatively conservative investor, or close to retirement, or simply don't need to take on much risk (when you discover you've won the game, stop playing) you should pay off loans before investing. The less risky your portfolio, and thus the lower the expected returns on it, the less sense it makes to carry loans while investing. For this reason I think it is stupid to carry a mortgage into retirement. It is foolish for anyone to take on more risk than they can handle or than they need to take. As Warren Buffett likes to say, only when the tide goes out do you see who's been swimming naked. If you are mostly invested in CDs and treasury bonds, you're probably going to do better paying down your mortgage and student loans than adding to your portfolio, especially with today's interest rates.
Now that we have discussed some factors to consider, and before we get into specific recommendations, I want to give you a list of guiding principles and rules of thumb to think about when deciding between paying down Student Loans and Investing:
Paying Off Debt vs. Investing Guiding Principles
#1 Don't Leave Part of Your Salary on the Table
If your employer gives you a match in a retirement account like a 401(k) or 403(b), then be sure to get it. Not getting it is like rejecting part of your salary. So even if you have terrible, nasty debts, I would still contribute enough to get your full match. Think about it. If you get a 100% match on the first 3% of salary (let's say that's $6K) you contribute to the 401(k) then you get an extra $6K. Assuming immediate vesting, even if you turned around and pulled all that money out of the 401(k) and sent it to your lender, you would only pay a 10% penalty ($1,200) plus the taxes you would pay either way. If we assume a 25% marginal tax rate, that strategy would net you
$12,000 – 25% * $12,000 – $1,200 = $7,800
versus $6,000 – 25% * $6,000 = $4,500
an extra $7,800 – $4,500 = $3,300. That's a no-brainer. Get the match.
#2 Don't Pay Off Loans Someone Else Will Pay Off
If you are doing “The PSLF Thing” (meaning you made lots of tiny IBR/PAYE/REPAYE payments during residency or fellowship and are now employed full-time by a 501(c)3 anticipating tax-free forgiveness after 120 monthly payments), then don't send in extra money to your federal student loan lender. If you're worried Public Service Loan Forgiveness will go away, then let that worry motivate you to spend less money so you can divert a large percentage of your income toward building wealth. I've traditionally advised people to keep a “PSLF Side Fund” in a taxable account that can then be directed toward the student loans if PSLF gets changed and you're not grandfathered in or if you just don't want to work for a non-profit anymore. However, it doesn't make much sense to invest in taxable if you still have tax-protected space like a 401(k) or Backdoor Roth IRA available to you. So I'd probably put it there. Sure, it's not going to allow you to instantly pay off those student loans in the event of PSLF catastrophe, but you'll end up wealthier for preferentially using the tax-protected account.
#3 Stop Digging
Here's another somewhat obvious point. When you realize you're in a deep hole (debt), stop digging! I can't believe how many people are wondering how to get their student loans paid off while still borrowing money to buy other stuff. If it isn't a modest house or a practice you probably shouldn't be buying it on borrowed money. That includes cars, vacations, living expenses, boats, pets, or anything else. Professional school will make you debt-numb. Wake up to its wealth-destroying effects on your life! Do you have $400K in student loans? Then you're likely one of the poorest people in the world. The guy living under the bridge is richer than you. His net worth is $0. You should be driving a beater and living somewhere that feels very middle-class.
#4 Paying Off High-Interest Rate Debt Is a Wonderful, Guaranteed Investment
If you have high-interest debt, chances are good that you're not going to be able to find an investment that will make that much money. You don't borrow money at 20% in order to invest because the risks you would have to take to attempt to beat that return are substantial. Thus, if you have debt at 20%, you should be paying it off as a major priority. And by major priority, I mean instead of eating. It probably wouldn't hurt you to lose 10 or 20 lbs anyway, would it? In fact, you can probably lower that figure quite a bit. If you've got 8%+ debt, you're probably better off paying that down instead of investing. That's a guaranteed 8% investment. I wish I could find more of those.
Now that we've got those hard and fast rules out of the way, we can move on to some of the more subtle aspects of this question. Let's look at some of the aspects to consider as you decide how to allocate your disposable income between investments and extra debt payments.
#5 How Long Do You Want to Be in Debt?
Personally, I think you ought to have your education paid for within 2-5 years of completing your training. You're really not done with med school until you've paid for it. If you go much beyond 5 years, it will feel like a noose around your neck. I mean, you could have had the military pay for it and you would have been done in 4 years. In order to be out of debt that quickly, you're going to have to direct a substantial portion of your income to it. Calculate out how much that is, and allocate that much toward the debt. Invest the rest.
But what if that doesn't allow you to max out all the accounts you want to max out? Tough cookies. Take more money from your lifestyle spending (i.e., Live Like A Resident), not from your debt pay down money. That's not negotiable. You're getting out of debt in 2-5 years, come hell or high water. Now, if you want to keep your student loans for 5 years in order to max out some retirement accounts when you could get out of debt in 2 without maxing them out, that's okay with me. But dragging your loans out for 15 years? You're going to regret that. I promise. Those who lived like a resident when you should have will be financially independent by the time you pay for your school. How are you going to save for your kids' schooling when you haven't paid for yours yet?
Once your student loans are gone, you can ask yourself the same question about your mortgage. Do you really want to be paying for that stack of bricks for 15-30 years? Figure out when you want to be done paying and make payments large enough to be done by then. Don't assume you'll be able to make big huge payments later (although there's a good chance you will, thanks to inflation, but certainly no guarantee).
#6 It Isn't Just About Comparing Rates of Return
Some people make this topic way too simple. They say, “If your investment is going to earn more than the interest rate of your student loans, then you should carry the loans and invest.” That ignores way too much. It ignores risk. It ignores the effects of taxes. And it ignores other important financial issues like asset protection, estate planning, and insurance costs.
Risk
If you can get 8% investing and have 7% loans, you should invest, right? No. Because that 7% is risk-free. And if you want a risk-free investment, you might only be earning 1%-2%. If you adjust for risk, paying off those loans is going to be the right choice. Now if you're comparing an expected 8% return to a guaranteed 2% return, well, that's a little easier argument to make.
Another important consideration with risk is your need to take it. If you're a 55-year-old doctor with a net worth of $100K, you have substantial need to take risk (including leverage risk) if you expect to retire with anything close to your accustomed standard of living. If you're a 45-year-old doctor with a net worth of $4 Million, you can afford the luxury of being debt-free. This consideration had a substantial effect on our decision to pay off our very low-interest rate mortgage in less than 7 years.
Taxes
Some types of debt are tax-deductible. And some types of investments are taxable at various rates. In order to compare apples to apples, you have to tax-adjust both sides of the comparison. You have to know your marginal tax rates (and there is likely more than one). If your marginal rate on ordinary income is 35% (you can figure this out with tax software), and your debt interest is fully deductible (you can figure this out with tax software too), then a 4% debt is is really a (1%-35%)*4% = 2.6% debt. If your investment return is taxed at your marginal tax rate and earns 6%, then after-tax it is really 3.9%. If your investment return is taxed at a 15% long-term capital gains rate, then that 6% return is really 5.1%. Your marginal tax rate on the investment could be even lower if you are able to defer some of those gains (such as with a tax-efficient stock mutual fund) or if you have offsetting depreciation (such as with a real estate investment). And it would be zero if you're investing in a tax-protected account. Now make your comparison.
In addition to those simple calculations, we also have to consider the other tax benefits of retirement accounts. For the typical attending physician in their peak earnings years, that mostly means a tax-deferred account like a 401(k). A typical physician should expect a tax arbitrage between their marginal rate at contribution and their effective withdrawal tax rate. 35% and 15% would not be unusual. That has the effect of boosting your investment return significantly as you basically started with a free 20% return in the account. In addition, that money isn't taxed as it grows. That tax-protected growth may boost your return by another 0.5%-2% per year. And if you leave it to your heirs, it can be stretched for another ten years. That tax benefit is awfully hard to pass up in order to get out of debt a few months earlier. Similar principles hold for a tax-free account like a Roth IRA, minus the tax arbitrage.
For the new attending physician, keep in mind you may be able to delay retirement account contributions. Instead of contributing to the 401(k) or HSA in August, you could pay down debt in August and contribute in December. You have until April of next year to get your IRA, SEP-IRA, and employer individual 401(k) contributions in. Yes, you lose the benefit of having that money start compounding in a tax-protected way right away, but at least you don't lose that tax-protected “space” forever.
Clearly, it makes a lot more sense to carry debt in order to invest in a tax-protected account than to invest in a taxable account. When you're maxing out all your tax-protected accounts, that's a good time to take a look at the debts you have left and see if throwing some money at them would be wise. A 401(k) is a lot more valuable than most people think it is, and it is most valuable for high-income professionals.
Asset Protection
You should be familiar with the asset protection laws in your state, as it can have a serious effect on this decision. For example, in Texas and Florida, you have strong homestead laws. So it can make a lot of sense to pay down a mortgage as that money is protected from creditors. In my state of Utah, not so smart as only $40K of home equity is protected. But our retirement accounts get 100% protection. So where a doc in Texas might choose to pay down a mortgage, a doc in Utah could, just as logically, choose to invest in a cash balance plan instead, even if expected returns were similar.
You can be assured that your creditors aren't going to take your student loans away from you, but money you use to pay them down also can't be taken away from you, and since they're not going away in bankruptcy, paying them off instead of investing in taxable is a smart asset protection move. Bear in mind that asset protection isn't nearly as important as most docs think it is. The risk of having a significant above policy limits judgment that isn't reduced on appeal is incredibly small.
Estate Planning
Retirement accounts are very useful for estate planning. By properly designating beneficiaries, that money doesn't have to go through probate. Of course, if you expect to die any time soon, you probably don't want to pay your student loans off, as they are generally forgiven at death (if you've refinanced, be sure to read the fine print to see if they're assessed against the value of your estate). Similar issues exist with disability as most student loans are forgiven in the event of permanent disability.
Cash Flow and Insurance
One of the best benefits of paying off debt is that your cash flow needs are lower. That allows you to carry less life and disability insurance to protect that cash flow. That could be worth hundreds or thousands per month.
#7 If Unsure, Split the Difference
As you can see, sometimes an invest vs pay off debt dilemma is very straightforward to resolve. And other times it is complex, murky, and dependent even on your emotional feelings about debt. In those times when you're truly unsure what to do, and discussion with those closest to you doesn't help, just split the difference. Send some of the money into your student loan lender and invest the rest and realize that you're choosing between two very good things to do. Which you do matters far less than the percentage of your income going toward building wealth instead of being spent.
#8 Do Both by Living Like a Resident
Better yet, do both. I get this question most frequently from brand new attending physicians. As they enter their career they have so many great uses for money, but only so much income to put toward those great causes. Think about a typical new attending and their uses for money:
- Expanded emergency fund
- Roth conversions of any tax-deferred savings from training
- Max out retirement accounts
- Pay off credit card debt
- Pay off auto loans
- Pay off student loans
- Max out retirement accounts
- Save up a down payment for a home
- Save up a practice buy-in
- Take a real vacation
- Upgrade the beater
The new attending simply has to prioritize what is most important, and then take any disposable income and work their way down the list until it runs out. However, that new attending will make it much further down the list if spending is minimized. That's why I encourage new attendings to Live Like A Resident for 2-5 years out of training. If you can earn $300,000 while living on $50,000, that's $250,000 (okay, perhaps $175,000 after tax) that can go toward building wealth. Even $300,000 in student loans won't last two years if you are throwing $15,000 a month at them. A little sacrifice during the early career (that doesn't even really feel like a sacrifice yet because you have not yet lived on an attending income) will allow incredible financial freedom and perhaps even financial independence by mid-career.
To be honest, the most financially successful people I see are not choosing between their student loans and investing. They are doing both. At the same time. And doing both well. The blogosphere and social media love to debate these two options, but the reality is that the same traits that lead someone to save a lot of their money and invest it well also lead them to pay off their debts rapidly.
#9 Use the Power of Focus
Being able to focus on one goal at a time is a very powerful technique. The debt snowball method emphasizes focus and momentum. With this method, all available income is aimed at your smallest debt while minimum payments are made toward other debts. When that debt is paid off, the borrower feels the momentum and redirects all that income toward the next smallest debt until it is paid off. Behaviorally, it is much easier to stick with a plan when you are doing one thing and you feel like you are accomplishing it rapidly. Since personal finance is 80% personal (behavioral) and only 20% finance (math), harnessing the power of behavioral finance to reach your goals seems wise.
#10 Use Student Loan Pay Off as a Practice Run for Financial Independence
For a typical doctor, financial independence is a 15-30 year goal. Paying off student loans can be a 2-5 year goal. Aside from that difference, reaching the goals involves the exact same principles and discipline. In this respect, paying off your student loans rapidly is a trial run for becoming financially independent rapidly. So when I see someone dragging out their student loans for 10, 15, or even 20 years, I worry they'll never become financially independent.
Priorities to Consider When Balancing Paying Down Student Loans vs. Investing
I suggest you use the following list of loan/investing priorities when deciding between paying down student loans and investing:
- Get your match. Be sure to put enough into your employer-provided retirement accounts to get your entire available match. That's part of your salary
- Decide how long you want to have student loans (generally 2-5 years). Figure out the minimum amount to pay each month to be done by that date. Additional payments toward this goal can be moved down this list depending on interest rate. Obviously, if you are going for PSLF or IDR forgiveness, don't pay extra on your federal student loans.
- Pay off high-interest debt. Any credit cards or consumer debt at 8% or higher should be paid off ASAP. Honestly, you should have never accumulated this. Live like a resident until it is gone. If you have 8%+ private student loans, refinance them ASAP and then you can move them down this list a bit.
- Invest in tax-protected accounts. If you are a resident max out your personal and spousal Roth IRAs. If an attending, max out your 401(k), SEP-IRA, HSA, and any other retirement account that allows you full marginal tax rate deductions.
- Pay off non-deductible loans between 5% and 8%, ie, graduate student loans.
- Consider investing in other accounts that offer a tax break, such as 529s (kid's college accounts), UGMAs, and Backdoor Roth IRAs if your circumstances merit.
- Invest in risky assets in a taxable account (stock mutual funds or investment properties).
- Pay off loans with after-tax rates of 3%-5%.
- Pay off loans with after-tax rates below 3%.
- Don't carry any debt into retirement. Losing the safety net of ongoing employment income makes this a risky affair. It's one thing to get foreclosed on when you're 30. It's entirely different when you're 70.
If you have not looked into refinancing your student loans lately, you might be surprised to learn how low your interest rate can be. Use the affiliate links in the chart below to get the best rates available and hundreds of dollars in cash back, all while helping to support the site.

Variable 4.54% - 11.72% APR
Fixed 3.95% - 9.19% APR
† Bonus includes cash rebates and value of free course. Borrowers who refinance more than $60,000 in student loans using the WCI links will be enrolled in The White Coat Investor’s flagship course, Fire Your Financial Advisor for free ($799 value). Borrowers will still receive the amazing cash rebates that WCI has negotiated with each lender. Offer valid for loan applications submitted from May 1, 2021 through June 30, 2023. Free course must be claimed within 90 days of loan disbursement. To claim free course enrollment, visit https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/RefiBonus.
What do you think? How did you decide whether or not to pay off your student loans early? Comment below!
I want to make sure that I understand your suggestions: if a doctor finishes a long residency and fellowship with $3-400k in student loans at 6.8-7.9%–but no credit card or other high-interest (>8%) debt–he should max out fully tax-deductible investments like a 401k/profit sharing plan and defined benefit plan before paying more than minimum payments on the student loans? That’s what I got from your order of recommendations #2 and 3, but please correct me if I’m wrong. I know the value of compounding interest makes investing a big priority in those early years, but even if the doctor has no aversion to being in debt, the guaranteed return on paying back the loans isn’t enough to outweigh the tax deductions lost by not investing?
Yes, the guaranteed return of 6.8-7.9% is very attractive. But so is never paying taxes again on an investment (a Roth IRA) or getting a big fat tax deduction this year. When you weigh the two, I prefer the tax breaks, even if the long run return is similar, or perhaps even a bit less. But it’s hardly a wrong move to pay off loans at 6.8%+, and I wouldn’t fault anyone who opted to do that. Now, at 1%, that’s a totally different question.
I, personally, have made the opposite decision, though my situation is admittedly quite a bit different.
I’m currently 90k in debt at 6.8%, and have opted to pay the minimum amount into my student loans throughout residency and invest as much as I can into a Roth IRA, while I can do it without backdooring the process.
My logic is more of a thought experiment than a mathematical one, and I’ve never worked it out, but it helps me sleep at night. With the current repayment plan, I’ll likely pay off the majority of my debt before the PSLF kicks in. If I go private, obviously that won’t matter. However, if I can manage 20-30k of total savings in my Roth throughout residency, assuming a conservative return, that’s another year or two of retirement I can look forward to (even neglecting the backdoor process in the future).
Yes, it’s a similar return if I were to pay off my loans first, however, I like seeing my retirement numbers go up during residency because, no matter what I do within reason (meaning I’d have to live in an area with high crime to pay off the loans during residency), I’ll still have some loan total upon leaving residency.
It just helps me sleep at night.
I know this comment string is old, but I’m asking the same question right now. Debt obviously has an interest rate that we consider heavily when making our decision, but does a Roth IRA (or 401K, for that matter) have a similar/comparable figure that we can compare against this to actually determine whether it makes more financial sense to pay down debt or max out a Roth IRA? There’s got to be a straight forward mathematical equation that can answer which one will win out, right?
No, there isn’t a straight forward mathematical equation. That would sure make things a lot easier wouldn’t it? Here’s the latest post I’ve written on this topic.
https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/pay-off-debt-or-invest/
WCI,
I KNOW FROM YOUR PREVIOUS POSTS HOW MUCH YOU DISAGREE WITH TAKING OUT CARS LOANS. BUT SAY I TOOK OUT TWO CAR LOANS WITH 1.49 AND 2.49% RATES. SHOULD I USE EXTRA FUNDS TO PAY THESE DOWN FIRST, OR LAST BASED ON YOUR ALGORITHM ABOVE?
Jim, thank you so much for your website. It’s provided lots of helpful info and I’ve referred most of my friends to this site. I recently refinanced my loans through DRB and was wondering where you would place a variable rate into your “triage” of financial recommendations? It’s currently 2.75% (2.5% + LIBOR). My wife and I already max out our 403b and I now have a 457b available and will max that out, which will get us close to our goal of 20% savings. I have about $300k of student debt, 1/2 @ the variable rate, 1/2 @ 4.5% and no other debt. We want to aggressively fund our future and are putting all excess money towards that. According to your recs (after filling up our pre-tax space), you would put money towards backdoor Roths/HSAs, then pay the 4.5%. Where would you place a variable rate in this picture? Just abide by its current rate or consider it a higher (>5%) rate? Thanks for all your thoughts!
There’s no right answer to this question, of course. If rates go up, you’d have been better off paying the variable. If they stay the same or go down, you’ll be better off paying the fixed. I would personally just abide by the current rate, so in your situation, prioritize the fixed loans over the variable. If rates go up, I’d redirect the cash to the variable. Either way, I’d live like a resident until they’re gone. That’s a heckuva lotta debt and you need to get rid of it, even at relatively moderate rates.
Thanks! I know, we’re living minimally. Would a high debt burden alter your priorities at all regarding saving for retirement? Or would you still fill as much pre-tax space as available? And would you fund a Roth before paying these loans off, as suggested in your above recs?
I wouldn’t skip out on tax breaks to pay down low interest loans, even with a high debt burden. What I would do is live very cheaply so I could pay down the debt above and beyond the retirement contributions. If you have a net worth of -$400K, you have no business living high on the hog, even if you have an income of $200K.
As I approach starting my first job as an attending this July, I have been working on a budget to see what my finances will be like based on all that I have learned from reading this site over the last few months (almost obsessively so – I love it!). I am single, have no kids, and don’t have any state income tax. In July I should have about 210k in student loans at 6.375% that I hope to refinance with DRB. I will start at 170k salary and will be able to participate in the TSP for retirement contributions. I also plan to do some moonlighting and hope to make about 50k per year doing that. As far as I understand, I should be maxing out my TSP and solo 401k plus a backdoor Roth IRA, then paying my student loans (which will hopefully be in the 3-5% range thanks to DRB). If my calculations and assumptions are correct, and I put all my projected bonuses towards my student loans, I should be able to continue my current lifestyle (comfortable but not extravagant) and still have my loans paid off in about 3 years (paying more than 5k per month towards student loans) while still investing for retirement. I didn’t think that would be possible!
That’s pretty aggressive ($17.5K into the TSP, $5.5K into a backdoor Roth IRA, $9K into a Solo 401K, and ~$80k into student loans). That’s $112K of your $220K accounted for, leaving $108K to live on (including taxes, which will be significant for a single employee with only $26.5K being able to be sheltered from taxation.) Can you do it? Absolutely. Would I do it? Probably. Should you feel badly if you don’t quite get all that accomplished? No way.
Good luck and glad to be of assistance!
What do you think about a first year internal medicine resident with a household income of approximately $90,000 and a student loan debt of $180,000 at 6.8%. My wife has a 401K plan in which they will match 20% of any contribution up to 6% of her total income(approx. 39,000) essentially a 2,300 pay increase if maxed. We feel that we can set aside approximately $20,000-25,000 yearly for savings/retirement above our basic loan payment. Do you think we should slam away at the student debt or save for retirement and plan on living like a resident post residency for some time to clear the debt as quickly as possible. Sorry this is a lot of detail. We have gone back and forth and feel that in the end it is probably a wash but just thought a second opinion would be worthwhile.
$90K? I’d probably opt for Roth IRAs/401Ks for most of my savings. I’d make sure I paid enough student loan interest to get the $2500 deduction. I’d consider refinancing with DRB or SOFI to get that rate down, but realize that may increase your monthly payments since you can’t be on IBR with refinanced loans. I’d also consider PSLF and rule that out prior to refinancing. Paying down 6.8% debt is never a bad move, of course. That’s a fantastic guaranteed investment.
WCI,
First off, thank you so much for all the hard work and time you put into this website. Do you have any preference between refinancing a student loan with DRB or SoFi? Thanks
DRB pays me to advertise. SoFi may in the future. But no, no preference. I think they’re both doing something awesome for docs and hope they have more competitors soon to further improve “the deal.”
Do you treat a practice business loan at 4.75% (3.325%) at a 30% tax bracket – the same as a home mortgage loan? If all the tax sheltered retirement accounts are maxed out and you have the option to invest in a taxable account or the practice loan which one would you contribute to?
Hmmm….tough question. No right answer there. Guaranteed 3.325% or take a risk in hopes of 6-10%. I would probably pay down the loan, but you wouldn’t be wrong to invest.
Another option would be to treat that 3.325% loan as a bond investment. Then allocate a certain percentage of income to paying off the loan and investing in the riskier stocks.
WCI:
Just curious about your thoughts on my situation.
135K loans from undergrad + med school. Weighted average interest of all loans at 6.4%, but most individually are 6.8%. No other debts. Own both our cars, rent, etc. One child.
Wife makes 30K. I’ll make 49K as PGY1. Rough estimate of accrued interest per month ~ 750 bucks. First year IBR req’d payment is 0 first year, 350-450 second year, and 700 PGY3 based on prior year tax return. We believe we can budget 750 per month for my loans, so easily enough to cover IBR payment and prevent interest accrual. However, that would probably only leave us 350-500 dollars per month, after other required expenses, to invest in Roth IRAs.
Is that smart? Keep the interest on loans low and just invest the extra? OR should I pay less on my loans and invest more aggressively, at least in our Roth accounts? I’ll probably have 6 years of residency + fellowship. With a lower debt burden (relatively for med students anyway) and potential changes in the program, I’m skeptical of the value of pursuing PSLF, so I would most likely aggressively pay off loans as soon as I’m an attending.
Any advice you have would be helpful, including any calculators, etc. to help work through such situations. Great website. Already ordered your book to educate myself. Thanks again.
Found this one in the spam folder while looking for another one that got blocked.
There’s no right answer here. Paying down the loans is a great investment. Maxing out the Roths is a great investment. Try to do both as much as you can. If you really hate debt, lean toward paying off the loans. If you really value Roth space, lean toward maxing out the Roths. You may find you run into more money than you planned and be able to do both. Personally, I’d max out the Roths each year and throw what I could at the debts. Then, upon residency graduation, go hogwild after that debt and try to get rid of it in a year or two.
Hey WCI,
Just curious about your thoughts on our situation. Married, wife is stay at home mom for our young daughter. About to graduate fellowship and start a job with $190,000 first year salary, increases to $220,000 2nd year. Prior to having our daughter, while my wife worked,we lived off one salary and used the other to pay off my high interest med school loans.
We are now left with around 160,000 in med loans ranging from 2.1% up to 4.29% interest rates. We recently bought a house and thus also have a $260,000 mortgage at 4.2%. Combined we have around $160,000 in various retirement accounts. We unfortunately also have a whole life insurance policy I was suckered into buying and it is costing us around $4,500 a year…which I am leaning towards cutting our loss and cancelling it.
Should we focus on student loans or pump as much into retirement as possible? We do donate 10% of income to charity but otherwise live extremely frugally and want to save as much as possible/get out of debt as quickly as possible. My dream is to hit 55 and be able to retire (though I don’t see myself truly retiring at 55).
Thanks for any guidance and for the website/book. My wife and I have loved finally getting a better grasp of our finances and taking control of more of it.
There’s no right answer to your question. 4.29% after-tax is still a pretty good return. Can you max out your available retirement accounts and still throw some significant money at the student loans?
Thanks for the reply. If we cancel our whole life policy we could free up money and have enough to max out the retirement accounts and still put an additional chunk towards the higher interest med loans.
Makes sense but mentally its hard to bail on the whole life policy since I am pretty much throwing close to $9,000 away if we admit it was a bad decision and walk away
You already threw the money away. Can’t change it now.
I struggle with this regarding paying debt prior to meeting your savings goal. Having read other posts of yours concerning paying off mortgage early I assume the extra money you are working with is after already meeting your savings goal.
What do you think of paying down debt prior to reaching your savings goal. Assume all tax advantaged accounts are maxed as well as backdoor ROTH and HSA if available. If that amounts to less than a 20% savings rate would you place that in taxable or pay off debt. I have student loan at 4% and mortgage at 4.875% and I’m in that predicament now. It seems in reading boglehead forum most favor moving #5 (taxable investing) below paying debt in 3-5% and some probably would argue even below the 3%.
I worry about the opportunity cost of compound interest in paying debt with extra money after maxing tax advantaged accounts yet hard to argue with those preferring a risk free 4% return.
There’s no right answer to your dilemma, but I would prioritize student loan debt at 4% over a mortgage at 4.875% unless you plan on dying soon. Nobody has called me on it yet, but my list in the book is slightly different from the list here.
WCI,
Love this site. Unfortunately didn’t get much financial guidance in med school and am currently a PGY-1.
I am trying to decide what to do about my loans. I have about ~120k (at ~5.8-6.1% interest) in loans right now, ~40k in mutual funds, and make ~48k/year pre tax. I qualify for the Pay as you Earn plan which will not require too much of a monthly payment. I am debating about what to do each month with excess funds. I know I need to stockpile some emergency funds in-case of something unforeseen happens, but after I do that I need help. Can’t decide between putting money in a retirement fund (Roth IRA), invest further in my mutual funds, or to pay off debt.
Really seem to be stumped on this and think a lot of new PGY-1’s could benefit from your advice.
The post you’re commenting on is that advice. The fact is there is no right answer, since both maxing out Roth IRAs as a resident and paying down debt are good things to do. Since you’re in the PAYE program, and unsure if you’ll be doing PSLF, I’d lean toward maxing the Roth. I would certainly do everything I could to transfer your taxable mutual funds into Roth accounts during residency by living off them while putting salary into a personal and spousal Roth IRA, as well as any Roth 403B or Roth 401K accessible to you.
WCI:
Have only recently discovered your site and really enjoy it! Thank you. My question is one that is probably obvious, but I am fairly naïve about this stuff and want to make sure I’m understanding it correctly: You recommend saving 20-25% of income for retirement. Is this calculated off of gross or net income?
Also, say after maxing a Roth IRA and 401K each month, I haven’t saved my 20% for that month (say, the contributions only add up to 15% of income). Should I put that extra 5% towards my 6.8-7.9% student loans, PRIOR to any other saving/investing? If so, it seems that it would be several years – that is, until my loans were paid off – before I would get to the point of actually saving 20% per month.
Hope that made sense, and thanks again!
I use gross income. But if you want to get really specific, why not make your own calculations? You may find your number is 18% or 21% or something else. It’s just a rule of thumb.
Paying off 6.8-7.9% student loans is an awesome investment. If I were you, I’d live like a resident so you can both max out retirement accounts and pay off those loans at the same time. I would NOT invest in a taxable account prior to paying off those loans. So basically, if you have loans like that sucking the life out of you, I think 20% is far too low a percentage of your income to dedicate toward building wealth. I’m recommending you put 20% toward retirement (or at least max out all available retirement accounts if that is a sum less than 20%) AND throw huge chunks of cash at those loans to get them paid off within 2-5 years of residency completion. I know that means you won’t be able to enjoy the “attending lifestyle” for a little while longer, but that’s the price you must pay if you wish to be financially successful.
Thanks for the reply.
I wasn’t as clear as I should have been: The 20% I was talking about was only for retirement; I do my best to pay down sizable chunks of my loans each month, probably close to 25% of my income or more. So I’m wondering if, AFTER paying, say, 25% of my income towards my loans while maxing out my tax deductible retirement accounts, should I use the “leftover” money I have to pay more towards my loans – even if I haven’t saved the rule-of-thumb 20% for retirement that month. I think you answered my question by saying that you would not invest in any taxable accounts prior to paying down the loans. So if my retirement saving is only 15% one month because at that point my Roth & 401K are maxed out, I should take the “extra” 5% and add it as a bonus payment on my already heavy student loan payment. Let me know if I’m off base there.
My major concern with throwing everything I can afford to at my student loans is that I don’t really have a lot of liquid cash, aside from a $20,000 emergency fund that’s just in a regular savings account. I am a 2011 dental graduate and she is also a healthcare professional, and we do live fairly cheaply: $77,000 mortgage is our only other debt asides from the $400K or so in combined student loans (a number that is VERY scary!). We recently got married so are starting to get pretty serious about our financial future… it sure can seem like there’s no light at the end of the tunnel when looking at those monster student loans.
Your wisdom and encouragement is appreciated!
I think you have it exactly right. I think a $20K emergency fund is plenty when you have 6-8% loans and a $77K mortgage. That should cover 3 months expenses. The habits you guys are starting out with are going to make you very wealthy very quickly. Nice work. Sorry you have such a huge student loan burden, but it’ll go fast.
As White Coat says you aren’t off base on what you describe above. I was struggling with a similar decision and a reply to a post I made on the Bogleheads forum helped me a lot. Basically try not to think about it as should I pay my loans off or invest this extra money because doing either is increasing your net wealth. Ultimately you can retire when your net wealth is high enough. Again, doing either, paying loans or investing, increases your net wealth. Which is why so often you read it comes down to the interest rate of the investment vs the paying of the loan. In essence they are both investments. If you’ve come this far you know no where are you going to find a guaranteed return comparable to your student loans so you should invest in paying them off. It is the fastest way to increase your net worth. Your answer at that rate is pretty easy. The hard one will be when that’s paid off should you pay off your mortgage sooner or invest in taxable. There the answers get harder and people disagree on the order it should be done. The prioritized listing above is even different from the one that made the cut in White Coat’s book so opinions change with time. My loans are only 3.5% so I’m splitting the difference…investing to my 20% in taxable and throwing all other moneys toward the loans. Is that the right answer? Who knows but it works for me.
You’re correct that they are different. Very observant. I was considering updating this post with the list in the book but never got around to it. Even so, the changes weren’t huge and the principles were the same.
Good stuff. I know a lot of people are in the same position as we are, but it’s still nice to hear from others on their take. Yours makes a lot of sense.
Thanks.
First, I love the website!! It is easily the best resource I have used as I begin my medicine career. I’ve referenced the site to countless other residents and attendings who are now following you as well. I personally have read many of the posts and will continue working through future entries as well as read many of the recommended books you list on the website. As your time is precious, I will give you a quick summary of me and my specific question.
-Currently PGY-1 osteopathic intern in Florida making 44K/yr
-I will start dermatology residency next year
-Currently have ~200K in student loan debt, all of which is at 6.8% interest (Stafford loan)
-My wife is an emergency PA, with no student debt, making about 90-100K annually.
-I have been maxing out my Roth yearly and now have ~20K.
-My wife’s Roth now stands at ~45K.
-We also have 50K in a nonretirement, fidelity account.
-10-20K in our bank account as cash for monthly bills as well as emergency fund
-We currently do not have any kids although are looking to have #1 in 2-3yrs
My question deals with how best to allocate our money. Having a combined salary of ~140K is a nice luxury not shared by many other residents. We are currently both maxing out our Roth funds annually (dollar cost averaging, index funds, etc…). Our current employers do not offer a company match. I am wondering if it makes sense to fund our 401K/403b funds or put the money towards my student loans as highlighted above.
I am aware to take full advantage of a company match (which is not offered in my current employer), but in this case I have mixed feelings about further contributions. On one hand, I am eager to pay down my loan as quickly as possible as that is a fixed cost at a (relatively) high interest rate. On the other hand, by paying only $1300 or so a month towards the loans (25yr fixed option) we have excess money that can be contributed to our 401K/403b. For 2015, I believe this is 18K for each of us. For two people, over the rest of my training years, that is significant money which can then be converted to a Roth IRA before I become an attending and am pushed into a higher tax bracket. Additionally, as dermatologists are in high demand, I know that some initial offers will pay off a significant portion of student loans (although of course I can’t guarantee this).
Two thoughts:
First, don’t pay off loans that will be forgiven. Most docs don’t know if they’ll be eligible for any forgiveness until they are about to finish training and see if they’ll be working at a 501(c)3. I don’t know the field of dermatology very well, and what percentage of jobs are 501(c)3s, but that’s the first consideration.
Second, if you think forgiveness is unlikely, it would seem to me that the fact that some employers may offer loan repayment shouldn’t be a big deal. You’re unlikely to get them all paid off in 3-4 years on a PA salary (although I suppose its possible), so there should still be something to be repaid by an employer. Plus, honestly it’s all the same to the an employer-higher salary vs other benefits vs loan repayment. If you don’t need one thing, negotiate elsewhere. It’s all cash to the employer.
The 401(k) plan is a pretty good one. Check and see if there’s a Roth option, and if so, use that. If not, you can do the conversions after you finish.
Firstly, I started reading your website when I started residency and it has been my go to source of information for trying to figure out my finances! Thank you so much for starting/running this website.
I am trying to figure out what you would advise in our situation –putting more money into retirement savings versus paying off debt. Both my husband and I fall into the category of extremely debt averse so have been putting most of our money into paying down debt. Started residency with a student loan of 250k all at the 6.8-7.9% federal loan rate. My husband only has undergraduate loans of 22k which are at the 3.5% interest rate- so we have held off paying anything above the minimum on his loans. My loan is now down to 200k 1.5 years into residency and all the grad plus loans at the 7.9% rate are paid off.
My husband just took a new job, which puts us in the lucky position of having a combined income of 200k currently with no children, mortgage, credit or car payments, and fairly low rent. We also have 6 month emergency fund of 30k.
For the first time, we find ourselves above the income level for Roth IRA’s and neither of our jobs have any 401k match. Would it be reasonable to skimp on retirement saving for the next 2 years of my residency and continue to maximize contributions towards the loans? We both only currently have 12k each in our retirement accounts. Currently we put 4k a month into the loan and with the new income, we were planning to up that to 6k.
Great job so far!
Basically, with a combined income of $200K, I’d just consider yourselves “attendings” as far as finances go. Refinance the loans and keep paying them aggressively. Start doing backdoor Roths and give serious consideration to doing Roth 401(k)s as well. Live like your (resident) peers and there will be plenty of money to build wealth with. It’s not like there’s a bad choice here between maxing out retirement accounts and paying down those loans. I’d say the most important thing is how much money you put toward doing either, rather than which one of the two you do. Personally, I’d max out all available retirement accounts and aim to have the loans gone within a year of your residency completion.
Hey WCI,
Love the site and book! Thank you so much for all you’re doing. I was curious as to where you would place a cash balance plan (shooting for a 4% return) in your list of priorities for investing? I’m suspecting you would prioritize this above investing in taxable accounts but curious to hear your take. Thanks!
Yes, I would put it above taxable. We just closed ours (will be opening another soon). My return was almost 7% over 3 years.
Hi WCI,
Just curious how you would approach loan payment vs investing question now that DRB is consistently refinancing student loans at below 3% (and inflation is below 0). Thanks!
The same principles apply. Maxing out retirement accounts and buying investments with high expected returns is probably a better choice most of the time than paying off very low interest rate debt.
Inflation was below zero from January to April of this year, but only at an annualized rate of something like -0.10%. Last year it was 1.62% and it has ranged from -0.34% to nearly 4% over the last ten years or so.
http://inflationdata.com/Inflation/Inflation_Rate/CurrentInflation.asp
Remember that holding fixed debt in deflationary times isn’t a good thing. You’re paying back loans with dollars that are worth more than the ones you borrowed!
White Coat Investor, I love your site, your book, and the insightful posts that you often make in the Bogleheads forum! A quick comment: in this blog post, your replies to its comments section, and in your writing elsewhere, you speak in fairly absolute terms about the wisdom of pursuing a tax break for student loan interest paid. This is characteristically great advice for many of your readers — but it makes the baseline assumption that all or most of your readers are married. For *unmarried* physicians and allied personnel, post-education salaries generally fall either squarely within or decidedly outside of the 60-80K phase-out zone for single tax filers seeking tax breaks for student loan interest paid. e.g. I’m not a doc, but I’ve been a tenure-track faculty member in a non-medical specialty at two different medical schools since completing my Ph.D. in 2008 with $125 K in student loan debt (6.5% rate). In both of these starting med school faculty positions, my salary as a single filer was too high to qualify for the student loan tax break. (In my case, my solution was to contribute to my workplace 403b but defer Roth/TIRA payments so that I could focus on wiping out my student loan debt in fewer than 10 years, a process that I completed in February 2015.) I’m not asking you to devote lots of ink to life situations that don’t apply to you, your wife, and most of the folks you know, but including a few sentences or even just a few words acknowledging that many of the strategies that you describe apply only to married folks would be welcome. In the meantime, thanks again for your fabulous, supremely-helpful work! Cheers.
I’m not quite sure what you’re referring to with regards to the single/married issue. I do frequently make the statement that attending physicians generally can’t deduct their student loan interest, which frankly is true whether they’re married or not given the typical attending physician salary. It would be a particularly poorly paid attending physician, single or married, who would qualify to deduct that interest, no matter how much is put into tax-deferred accounts.
However, if you make less than an attending physician, then sure, some of your interest may be deductible which may slightly change your after-tax interest rate and possibly change your financial plan.
Love this site and have been following for a long time. Because I have only lurked up until this point, am now curious as to your take on my and my wife’s situation. Although not MDs, I am a Physical Therapist and my wife is a Physician Assistant.
We are both 28 and have a combined $130k in student loan debt, all between 6.8-7.9% federal rate. Following recent raises, our current income is a combined $200k. We have no car payments or Credit card debt, no kids (next year?), but have one mortgage with an $1800/mo payment. We have auto-withdrawals set to maximize Roth IRA contributions for each of us – this will need to be changed next for 2016, once we have a full year of our current salaries as we will be ineligible. Neither of us has access to a 401K, however my work will offer one within the next 6 months, unsure of match amount. We currently have a $20k emergency fund in addition to an inherited IRA account from my FIL’s passing that is currently valued at $70k that we also can use as an emergency fund.
We have been debating a few different options:
– Re-finance the loans privately to reduce the interest rate & aggressively pay the loans into the early years of our upcoming child’s life in order to have them gone before they even begin pre-school.
– Stay within our current repayment situation (25 year standard repayment with 22 years remaining) in order to maximize our cash-on-hand and ability to contribute to retirement accounts
– Stay in our current situation, so we are covered by Federal regulations should the repayment terms/programs change, but pay extra $$ each month towards the loans to aggressively pay them down within 5-10 years instead of 22.
Our main hesitations are leaving the federally-backed loans and the safety net that they provide (ie- new programs, forbearance, etc). What we wonder, however, is if we plan to pay all the loans off within 5 years, do we really need that safety net anyway? Finally, with our ages, we wonder if it is more important to be investing now as we have time on our side, or if waiting 5-10 years still leaves us with enough time after the fact to begin contributing for retirement? Another consideration is that while we make good $ right now, our salaries have likely maxed out (outside of inflation), so we don’t expect any significant increases to come down the line, unless we make a significant change within our fields which is very unlikely.
What would YOU do?? Thanks!
–
I’d refinance and pay them off. $130K on a $200K salary is very doable in a couple of years. In fact, I’d probably do what I could to pay it off in 12-18 months so we were free to have one of us cut back or quit altogether when that kid(s) comes along. That debt is large, but not in relation to your shovel. You can do it!
Thanks so much for the reply WCI! I think this is the best move for us as well, and one that would give us peace of mind knowing the loans will soon be gone. A few other things: Would you continue to contribute and max out a Roth for each of us for the 1-5 years it took to pay these down (not sure the timeline we will choose yet)? Once I qualify for a 401K at my work in the next 6 months, should I begin contributing to receive the company match? Or, should all of our available assets go towards the loans? I am likely going to refinance privately and get a 10 year repayment period, in order to give us a little more cushion with a lower monthly payment, though still paying additional $ every month. I feel like this offers protection, just in case something were to happen with our income.
As noted in the article, there is no definite answer some times. Don’t miss out on a match, of course. Try not to lose tax-advantaged space opportunities, but sometimes paying down high interest debt matters more than that. It’s a complicated decision. Best option sometimes is to do it all by living like a resident sometimes, but if you can only do one or the other, you can at least know that both are building your net worth.
And lastly, with the current Democratic candidates exclaiming a need for student loan reform, additional repayment programs, etc., do you think there is any benefit in waiting until the next presidential election/term to see what the Fed decides to offer people with student loan debt? (I know, I know, but I had to ask).
Crystal ball so cloudy sometimes. I have no idea. But you can calculate the cost of waiting pretty easily, which may help you decide.
I currently have $230k (200k principle+30k interest) loan accruing interest at 6.5%. Currently a PGY3 radiology resident and most of the jobs I am looking at are not 501(c) institutions unfortunately. My wife and I made 85k post taxes this year (2015) and will continue to make around that much the subsequent years until I graduate in 3.5 more years (after fellowship). We also have a 141k mortgage (Adjustable rate at 3.25% and mortgage payments of 1k/month).
My question is should I think about refinancing loans knowing that I am not eligible for loan forgiveness. If so when should I reconsider refinancing?
Thanks so much,
Big fan of the website.
Hard to say. You say “most” not all and that suggests PSLF is still a possibility for you. You also have the REPAYE vs refinancing debate /calculation to make. I guess I probably wouldn’t refinance until I was sure I wasn’t going for PSLF.
This site is awesome, reading the comments section I have learned additional information as well. I obsess when it comes to unimportant things like photography or cars. Now I am diverting my attention to something more worthwhile such as my own finance and retirement plans. I read your book, now I am ordering several recommended books that I found on this website to further add to my fund of financial knowledge.
PGY1 currently with ~114k of student loans so far. My salary around ~50k and wife 30k school teacher. I maxed contributed my Roth for 2015 and the employee 403b 6% + 4.5% match. The rest was thrown into loans and household items. I bought a Condo for residency with average payment of $950/mo with $265 monthly HOA, rented a room to a co-resident for $700/mo split utilities.
Just starting my financial building at age of 27 now. Does my preliminary plan sound, sound?
This year I plan to contribute to the spousal ROTH IRA as well. I have most of my finances with Merrill Edge but will move to a Vanguard account once they charge me fees which apparently doesn’t start until you have 250k with them. Ill probably do the DRB refinance as well. My plan is to throw everything to a Vanguard 2055 until I have more time to figure things out (or read/learn more then I do now). Wife has a car note still but mine is paid off. I’ll continue the 403b match which lets us move our funds if we keep it with them for 3 years. Wife may start speech pathology studying my last 3 years of residency in my 4 year residency. I will still try to max the spousal contributions. She will get student loans and some parental assistance.
I am holding off my desire to buy a used car till after I pay most of my debts off.
Sounds like you guys are doing great!
One additional question, I have not done my taxes ever. I know you recommend doing your own taxes. I plan to read up on it more but with ICU rotation around the corner, I might not have enough time to be well read.
Do you recommend software such as Turbotax or is there another method to file taxes without these software?
I think you learn a lot by doing your own taxes. That said, it’s hardly mandatory. The point is to learn about the tax code. You can also learn about it by reviewing your tax preparer’s work. Turbotax is fine. It’s what I use, but it is the most expensive of the tax software programs.
Hi there,
First of all just want to say THANK YOU for creating and maintaining this site…I stumbled upon it about a month ago while researching what I’ve now come to realize is a terrible whole life insurance policy (I’m in the process of getting more appropriate term life insurance in place before getting the heck OUT of the other one) and since then I have been spending a good chunk of my free time reading the site and have read several of the books you’ve recommended, including yours. I feel like it’s really opened my eyes to all of the mistakes I was making financially, when all along I thought I was doing pretty decently with paying off debt and saving for retirement. My husband and I got married about 4 months ago and are in the process of combining bank accounts and starting to make a real plan for the future, which included sitting down for a budget/savings plan a few days ago. Here’s what we’ve come up with- I would love to hear if you think this seems reasonable or if there are any glaring mistakes. A little background- I’m 32, a veterinarian, and am shooting to retire in about 30 years. My husband is 28, spent 7 years in the Marines, and is currently in school using the GI bill. Our current gross income is around $190k (with about 30k of that tax exempt from the GI bill living stipend and my husband’s medical retirement through the VA- he is a late-onset type 1 diabetic that they are (fortunately for us) attributing to a probable immune-mediated response to a viral illness he contracted while deployed in Afghanistan.). He is considered 60% disabled which means that he will get $1100 a month for the rest of his life (more once we have children, and it will increase based on inflation in the future). Since we have this guaranteed income for life, I backed our retirement contributions down to around 15% of our gross income rather than the 20% that I was initially shooting for. Here’s how we currently have things allocated:
-Paying $1200 a month toward my 93k remaining student loans (4.65%), which will have them paid off in ~7.5 years
-$2000/month toward our 30 year mortgage (including property taxes/insurance) at 4% (289,000 remaining- but home value has grown from $352,000 at purchase in 2012 to estimated $540,000 based on Zillow- we live in San Diego)
-Saving 13% of my primary income (115,000 gross) into my 401k (there is an employer match but it varies year to year; I’m conservatively estimating it will be around 3%. Total in 401k ~80k right now
-Maxing out both of our Roth IRA’s (currently at NW mutual but soon to be at Vanguard)- started recently so combined only about 8k
-Aggressively paying down our one remaining debt other than mortgage/student loans, my husband’s car loan- has about $14k left to pay off at 3.9% but putting $1400 a month so should be gone in about a year. The interest rate isn’t bad but I’m morally opposed to a car payment and thankfully have gotten the hubby on board
-Saving $300/month to our emergency fund (which is tiny right now, only 2,000)
-Saving $300/month toward my next vehicle (planned to be purchased in about 5 years)
-Living on the rest
This all will likely change in the next 2-3 years, as we plan to start a family so will incur more expenses, but my husband will also be done with school and hopefully gainfully employed with a significant pay increase (he’s hoping to get into medical sales in the diabetes field, so potential for a good salary). I feel like we are doing a pretty good job now, but would love any feedback on ways to tweak it!
Also, as a second question- is there any particular way you feel it’s smart to make monthly investments towards a future purchase (i.e. car, home improvement, etc) rather than just racking up cash in a savings account? That’s what I am currently doing but feel like I might be missing out on potential growth given that we have 5 years before we will really need it.
Thanks again!
Julie
You have no idea how much effort I’ve spent getting you to stumble in here. Trust me, I want to be found.
Congratulations on your financial success and newfound knowledge. An income of $115K is pretty darn good for a vet isn’t it, and $190K is a lot of money. I was 5 years out of residency before I ever made that. I seem to run into a lot of vets with 5 figure incomes and 6 figure student loans. You should be able to get rid of your student loans relatively rapidly. I’m not a big fan of the military’s disability rules, but I can’t blame you guys for playing by them. My favorite is the guys who think the military gave them their sleep apnea which is apparently good for a really high percentage disability too. I mean, it’s one thing if you got shot in the leg, but sleep apnea? Bizarre.
I think it’s ridiculous for you to carry those student loans out for another 7.5 years. Why not pay them off in 2 years? You can do it! But you seem to lack the power of focus right now. You’re trying to do 10 different things at once. I might suggest a more focused approach.
# 1 Sell the car and buy a $5K car. That’s a 7 year old Sentra with 100K miles on it. Every time you drive it, it will remind you of how badly you want to be out of debt and financially set. Don’t worry, you can go back and buy the fancy car in a few more years with cash. Now that debt is gone.
# 2 Save up an emergency fund. Since you have $1200 a month guaranteed, your emergency fund doesn’t have to be huge. Maybe $10K. You should be able to do that within a couple of months.
# 3 Remember that you can put off Roth IRAs for quite a while. You have until April 2017 to make a 2016 contribution. Take advantage of that as much as possible.
# 4 It is utterly bizarre to be saving up $300 a month toward another vehicle while making payments on one you already own. Stop doing that and direct that $300 elsewhere.
# 5 Write down a date you want to be rid of the student loans. If it were me, that date would be less than 2 years away, but I think it would be reasonable to push it out to 3. When your husband finishes school, there should be a big boost in income, no? Use that entire boost to get rid of loans and max out retirement accounts.
# 6 The 401(k) is a priority, but it wouldn’t be the end of the world to skip it for a year or two to get rid of the student loans faster. Think how much nicer your monthly after-tax cash flow will be without a student loan payment. It will be way easier to save and enjoy life. As you start a family, that financial freedom will become very important to you.
My “future purchase” savings sits in a savings account making 1%. But I don’t have some other awesome use for the money like you do. You’ve got at least 6 uses I can count that I don’t have any more- car payments, student loan payments, a relatively high interest rate mortgage, an unfunded emergency fund, Roth IRAs, and a 401(k). If I had all that to do, I’d put those future purchases off for a while until I’d taken care of those other things. Very few home improvements HAVE to be done and cars can last a surprisingly long time if you truly drive them until the repair costs more than the car is worth.
Thanks for the input! We are going to try to put several of your suggestions into play. As far as the vet salary goes, I’m actually sitting pretty good compared to the majority of my colleagues…I had a full scholarship for undergrad and was able to keep it to $120k in student loans with in state veterinary tuition in Iowa. I only graduated 7 years ago, but the average tuition has skyrocketed since then, they continue to open new vet schools and churn out more new graduates, and the field is oversaturated so salaries aren’t as competitive as they should be (I’m guessing you guys run into something similar on the human side of things) . Granted, I’m in southern California so the salaries are higher (along with the cost of everything else). I’m also in one of the more highly paid sectors of vet med (emergency), although I had to pay my dues with 6 years of nothing but overnight shifts before finally getting a daytime ER job. I also supplement my main job with some independent contractor work for an at-home euthanasia and hospice service, through which I’m able to pull in an extra $1500-2500 a month (pre-tax), which has really helped. I don’t know that I could now, knowing what I know about average student loans and salaries for vets, recommend that a young person go to vet school. A relief vet that I work with told me the other day she has $374k in student loans from a private vet school, that increase in principal every year by ~20k while she pays around $500/month in IBR. It will be up to around $800k at the 20 year mark when it is forgiven, so she’s saving another $1000 a month towards the eventual taxes. That seems absolutely insane to me. But anyway, to respond to your points,
#1: Yes. You and I are in 100% agreement on this but it will probably not happen. My husband did not have a lot of guidance on spending/saving prior to meeting me (I’m talking $10k+ in credit card debt, high car payment, no retirement savings, etc.). He’s come a long way and the credit cards are history, he’s saving for retirement, and has picked up 2 part time jobs while in school to help get us where we need to be. But, he’s not going for selling the car. I figure we should be able to pay it off by June 2016 though (see adjustments below in #4) so I’m not going to push it too hard. Plus one of his jobs is driving for Uber and the car is reliable and has great gas mileage, so is somewhat of a benefit.
#2: Seems completely reasonable, plan to do it after the car is paid off. So realistically could have that funded to 10k by probably August/Sept 2016.
#3: It seems to me that putting them off wouldn’t necessarily be the best move- wouldn’t you lose the benefit of over a year of compounding interest plus lose the benefit of dollar cost averaging by putting in one lump sum vs. monthly contributions?
#4: You are completely right but we just never looked at it that way. We have both been used to saving for things individually, and we are just now getting used to looking at finances as “ours” rather than mine and his. I have about $5000 saved up towards my next car, and have another ~4000 tied up in my whole life policy that I am going to cash out. We will take that $9k and put it towards the $14k loan on my husband’s car this month, and then should have it paid off in less than 3 months after that. I will likely need a car about 5-6 years (still driving my vet school car paid for in cash in 2008, which is now 10 years old. It’s held up well but is getting up there in miles. But, once we have the other things paid off in ~3 years we should be able to quickly accumulate cash for a car.
#5: I could continue paying my $1200/month student loan payment until August/September when it could bump up to roughly 2900/month, which would have it paid by (if I’m doing my calculations right) May 2019 (so 3 years 3 months). I think doing it any faster would really strap us financially.
#6: Oh man, this pains me to even think about doing. I think I will continue at my current rate given that with the above calculations we should have everything paid off within roughly 3 years (aside from mortgage).
I will hold off on a future purchases account for now but like the idea of the high interest savings account. I’m assuming there is a minimum balance to carry to get the 1% rate? What bank do you go through for that?
After running the numbers, I can’t believe how much we can accomplish in the next 3 years (and this is all really prior to my husband having his “real” job). I think we are both feeling pretty optimistic about things after looking at it from your perspective- thanks again!
You’re very welcome. I agree that if your husband is an Uber driver, and this car is primarily a business expense, a $5K car may not be the best idea, especially if you can have it paid off 4 months from now.
Wow! Your student loans have only gone down $23K in 7 years? That must be a bit depressing. Nowhere near your colleague going for IBR forgiveness (25 years and taxable) but still bad. I like your plan to get rid of it in 3 years much better.
Looking at your money all together is key.
Ally Bank is paying 1% now and has no minimum.That’s where my cash is.
Regarding the paying down debt vs investing argument- obviously there are many ways to do it. The ideal is to do both- max out retirement accounts AND pay off debt rapidly. The only way to do that is to boost income as much as possible and cut lifestyle as much as possible. There is definitely a balancing act there and there may be no right answer, just a right answer for you. But my general sense for you guys is that you’ve had too much comfort with debt, at least in the past, and maybe ought to prioritize it a little bit higher than you have. One other option you may have given your home appreciation is refinancing the home and rolling all the debt in there. That would be especially useful if you can get your rate down to the 3% range with a 15 year fixed.
Yes…student loans have been very depressing. Although I did defer my loans during my internship (no way to make payments making $25k and living in San Diego) so accrued additional interest during that time. Technically i started repayment August 2010 so have been paying for about 5.5 years and was probably closer to 130k before payments started, and was paying 6.5% interest until recently. I have been paying almost $400 a month more than the scheduled payments, I just never thought it was realistic to afford more than that for some reason. Hoping to get them paid off sooner rather than later at this point!
You can do it!