By Dr. Jim Dahle, WCI Founder
Setting up a Backdoor Roth IRA can be confusing, so I thought I’d put together a tutorial on the steps people can refer to when they go through this process. Let's get started.
Table of Contents
- What Is a Backdoor Roth IRA?
- Who Should Do a Backdoor Roth IRA?
- When to Do a Backdoor Roth IRA?
- Backdoor Roth IRA Pros and Cons
- Backdoor Roth IRA Tax Implications
- Backdoor Roth IRA Steps
- How to Fix and Prevent Backdoor Roth IRA Mistakes
- Backdoor Roth IRA FAQs
What Is a Backdoor Roth IRA?
Despite its name, a Backdoor Roth IRA is not an account; it is a process with two steps:
- Contribute to a Traditional IRA.
- Complete a Roth conversion.
If you understand the rules of both of these steps, putting them together is no problem.
Who Should Do a Backdoor Roth IRA
Remember that if you are a low earner you can just contribute DIRECTLY to a Roth IRA and skip this Backdoor Roth IRA process.
Roth IRA Limits and Conversion Rules
Low earner is defined as a Modified Adjusted Gross Income (MAGI) under a phaseout range in 2024 of $146,000-$161,000 ($230,000-$240,000 Married Filing Jointly). Some docs—like residents, employee dentists, part-timers, and even some medical attendings in the lower-paying specialties who are married to a non-earner—can just contribute to a Roth IRA directly.
Anyone who earns at least $7,000 ($8,000 if 50+) can contribute $7,000 ($8,000 if 50+) to an IRA [2024]. If your income is below a MAGI of $146,000-$161,000 ($230,000-$240,000 Married Filing Jointly), you can contribute directly to a Roth IRA. If you have a retirement plan offered to you at work and your MAGI is below $77,000-$87,000 ($123,000-$143,000 Married Filing Jointly), you can deduct your traditional IRA contributions. Since most readers of this blog have a retirement plan through their job and have (or soon will have) a MAGI over $240,000, they will find that they can't make direct Roth IRA contributions or deduct their traditional IRA contributions. Thus, their best IRA option is the Backdoor Roth IRA process, i.e., an indirect Roth IRA contribution.
Spousal IRAs
Married physicians should be using a personal and a spousal Roth IRA, and you will usually need to fund both indirectly (i.e., through the Backdoor). This provides an additional $7,000 each ($8,000 for each spouse that is 50+) of tax-protected and (in most states) asset-protected space per tax year, and it allows for more tax diversification in retirement. Tax diversification allows you to determine your own tax rate as a retiree by deciding how much to take from tax-deferred (traditional) accounts and how much from tax-free (Roth) accounts. Remember that IRA stands for INDIVIDUAL Retirement Arrangement, so even if the pro-rata rule (discussed below) keeps you from doing the Backdoor Roth IRA, it doesn't necessarily keep your spouse from doing so. Each spouse reports their Backdoor Roth IRA on their own separate 8606, so the tax return for a married couple doing Backdoor Roth IRAs should always include two Form 8606s.
Married Filing Separately
The contribution and deduction income limits are particularly low if you are filing your taxes Married Filing Separately (MFS). Both the ability to contribute directly to a Roth IRA and the ability to deduct a traditional IRA contribution if you (or your spouse) are eligible for a retirement plan at work phase out between $0 and $10,000. Basically, the best option for anyone filing their taxes MFS is the Backdoor Roth IRA process, i.e., an indirect Roth IRA contribution.
There is an exception to these rules if you do not actually live with your spouse. In that case, your ability to contribute directly to a Roth IRA phases out between a MAGI of $146,000-$161,000 in 2024. If you live separately and are not covered by a retirement plan at work, you can deduct a traditional IRA contribution no matter your income. You can still do a Backdoor Roth IRA process in these situations where your IRA contribution is either partially or completely deductible. The tax bill will be precisely the same: $0 when done properly. However, instead of having no tax cost for either the contribution or the conversion, your deduction on the contribution will precisely equal the tax cost on the conversion, resulting in that same $0 tax bill for the entire process.
Mega Backdoor Roth IRA
A Mega Backdoor Roth IRA is completely different from a regular Backdoor Roth IRA. Despite its name, you actually do a Mega Backdoor Roth IRA with a 401(k), not an IRA. It requires a 401(k) that accepts both after-tax (not Roth) employee contributions and allows for either in-service withdrawals (and thus conversions to a Roth IRA) or, more commonly, in-plan conversions. Using the Mega Backdoor Roth IRA process, one could put as much as $69,000 ($76,500 if 50+) [2024] per year into a Roth 401(k) (or possibly a Roth IRA in addition to your usual $7,000-$8.000 contribution). However, this process has nothing to do with the Backdoor Roth IRA process we are discussing in this post.
When to Do a Backdoor Roth IRA
Lots of people wonder about the timing of a Backdoor Roth IRA.
IRA Contribution Deadline
There is really only one deadline to meet with the Backdoor Roth IRA process. IRA contributions for a given tax year must take place between January 1 of the tax year and April 15 (even if you file an extension) of the following year.
Backdoor Roth IRA Conversion Deadline
The conversion step may take place at any time. It can take place the next day or even the same day as the contribution. I don't recommend it, but you can wait months, years, or even decades between the contribution and the conversion step. There is no deadline for Roth conversions. If you need to perform a rollover or a conversion of a traditional, rollover, SEP, or SIMPLE IRA in order to avoid the pro-rata rule, you have until December 31 of the year you do the conversion step.
When Should You Contribute and Convert?
You should do both steps as soon as possible. Many white coat investors do the IRA contribution step and the Roth conversion step the first week of January each year. This maximizes the amount of tax-free compounding that can occur on those dollars. Minimizing the time between contribution and conversion and doing both steps within the calendar year is not required, but it certainly simplifies the paperwork.
Want to really make your paperwork complicated? Contribute to your IRA each month and convert it each month. Then, you have 12 contributions and 12 conversions to keep track of each year. Seriously, though, if you make enough money that you have to contribute to your Roth IRA(s) through the Backdoor Roth IRA process, you make enough to do it at one time each year.
Can I Do a Backdoor Roth IRA Every Year?
Yes. My wife and I have done one every year since 2010 and do not plan to stop until we no longer have any earned income. It is just one of the investment chores we perform once a year.
5-Year Rule
One factor that may push you to do a Backdoor Roth IRA earlier is the five-year rule. Now, there are at least three five-year rules related to IRAs, but the main one to pay attention to here is the five-year rule after a Roth conversion. This rule determines whether the withdrawal of principal from the account prior to age 59 1/2 will be penalty-free. The five-year period starts on January 1 of the year you do the conversion, so it could be a little less than five years. Roth IRA principal generally comes out tax- and penalty-free (it is only the earnings that may be subject to penalties), but that is only the case after the five-year rule has been fulfilled.
In essence, if you do a conversion of a Roth IRA at age 51, you can then withdraw the principal tax- and penalty-free starting at age 56 rather than age 59 1/2. This can provide funding for living expenses to early retirees. If you do a Roth conversion at age 57, you still get access to that principal (and earnings) tax- and penalty-free at age 59 1/2. So, it's five years or age 59 1/2, whichever comes first.
There is also a completely separate five-year rule on IRA contributions, but this starts from the time you make your very first IRA contribution, not every contribution, so it should not apply to most early retirees.
Backdoor Roth IRA Pros and Cons
There are a lot of great things about the Backdoor Roth IRA, but it isn't all peaches and cream.
Pros of Backdoor Roth IRA
The main benefit of a Backdoor Roth IRA is that it provides you with another retirement account. Via the Backdoor Roth IRA process, you can continue to contribute to a Roth IRA even after your earnings rise above the income limit for direct Roth IRA contributions. Retirement accounts eliminate the tax drag that applies in a taxable, or non-qualified account, reducing your taxes and allowing your investment to grow at a higher rate so you can reach your goals sooner.
How much can that tax protection be worth compared to a taxable account? It depends on the return of the underlying investment, its tax efficiency, and the amount of time the money is left in the account. At my marginal tax rate, $10,000 earning 8% in a tax-inefficient investment over 50 years would grow to $469,000 in a Roth IRA but only $88,000 in a taxable account. More realistically, over 30 years, the use of a Roth IRA vs. a taxable account for a tax-efficient investment would still result in 29% more money.
Retirement accounts ensure simple estate planning. By using beneficiaries, that money does not go through the probate process, so your heirs get it sooner with less hassle, more privacy, and no cost. They can even stretch the tax-protected growth benefit for another decade after they inherit the account. Retirement accounts like a Roth IRA also provide substantial asset protection in most states, meaning that in the admittedly very rare event of a dramatically above-policy limits judgment that isn't reduced on appeal, you can declare bankruptcy and still keep what is in your retirement accounts. Roth money is tax-free forever, so by continuing to contribute each year, you can increase tax diversification in retirement.
Cons of Backdoor Roth IRA
Roth IRAs, even when you contribute via the Backdoor Roth IRA process, are still retirement accounts with all of their downsides. Retirement accounts limit the investments you can put in them and prohibit the use of margin investing. If you withdraw Roth IRA earnings prior to age 59 1/2 without an approved exception, you will owe a 10% penalty.
Due to the pro-rata rule (see below), the Backdoor Roth IRA process requires you to either convert or roll over into a 401(k) any traditional IRAs, SEP-IRAs, and SIMPLE IRAs you may have. If you have self-employment income, you will need to use a solo 401(k) instead of a SEP-IRA to shelter that income from taxes. Doing Backdoor Roth IRAs each year also adds one form (IRS Form 8606) per spouse to your tax return. If preparing your own taxes using tax software, it can be tricky to ensure the software reports the process correctly. If you do a Backdoor Roth IRA instead of (rather than in addition to) maxing out your tax-deferred accounts during your peak earnings years, that can also be a mistake that results in the accumulation of less money.
Perhaps most significantly, there are now two steps to getting money into your Roth IRA each year instead of just one. While I think the process is pretty darn simple, I am continually amazed at all of the unique ways that doctors manage to screw it up. Later in this article, I'll show you how to fix all of those screwups.
Is a Backdoor Roth IRA Worth It?
Yes! Most of the time. It really is just a little bit of hassle to do each year, although there may be some additional hassle the first year if you need to take care of another IRA first to avoid the pro-rata rule. There may be times when someone has a large traditional IRA they cannot afford to convert to a Roth IRA and cannot roll over into a 401(k) because they don't have a 401(k) at all, their 401(k) charges high fees, or because the IRA assets are invested in something they cannot invest in within a 401(k). If your employer-provided retirement account is a SIMPLE IRA or a SEP-IRA, the Backdoor Roth IRA process is also probably not worth it. Finally, some multi-millionaires don't want to bother with even the minor hassle of the Backdoor Roth IRA process because getting an extra $7,000-$16,000 a year into Roth accounts just isn't going to move the needle for them.
Backdoor Roth IRA Tax Implications
Roth IRAs are all about avoiding taxation on earnings, so naturally, there are lots of tax implications of this process.
Pro-Rata Rule
The most important tax implication to be aware of is the pro-rata rule. I would estimate that 90%+ of Backdoor Roth IRA screwups involve the investor having his or her conversion pro-rated. When you report a Roth IRA conversion on IRS Form 8606 (see below), there is a pro-rata calculation made. The numerator is the amount converted. The denominator is the total of ALL traditional, rollover, SEP, and SIMPLE IRAs, but not 401(k)s, 403(b)s, 457(b)s, Roth IRAs, or inherited IRAs. Therefore, it is critical that you DO SOMETHING with any IRA balance you have PRIOR to December 31 of the year in which you do a Roth conversion of after-tax money. Later in this article, I'll describe the exact options you have for what to do with this money.
Tax on Backdoor Roth IRA Conversion
Done properly, there is NO tax on a Backdoor Roth IRA conversion. Zero. Nada. Zilch. While the money you put into a Roth IRA (indirectly via the Backdoor in this case) was taxed when you earned it, it is NOT taxed when you contribute it directly to a Roth IRA or when you contribute it as a non-deductible IRA conversion or when you subsequently convert that money to a Roth IRA. In fact, it is never taxed again.
Do I Need to Worry About the Step Transaction Doctrine?
There used to be a concern that the IRS would have a problem with the Backdoor Roth due to an IRS rule called The Step Transaction Doctrine. This rule basically says that if the sum of a bunch of legal steps is illegal, then you can’t do it. Some wondered if this Backdoor conversion from a Traditional IRA to Roth was a legal transaction considering this doctrine. Those concerns, valid or not, are no longer an issue. The IRS clarified in early 2018 that no waiting period is required between the contribution and conversion steps of the Backdoor Roth IRA. It has essentially given its blessing on the whole process. Waiting just makes things more complicated on the 8606, as discussed in Pennies and the Backdoor Roth IRA.
How to Report a Backdoor Roth IRA on TurboTax
Reporting the Backdoor Roth IRA properly on TurboTax is unfortunately even more complicated than filling out Form 8606 by hand. The key to doing it right is to recognize that you report the conversion step in the Income section but you report the contribution step in the Deductions and Credits section. Since you generally do the income section first, you report the conversion before you report the contribution, even though you actually did the contribution before the conversion. At the end, you want to look at the Form(s) 8606 that TurboTax generates, just like you would check up on one filled out by an accountant.
More information here:
How to Report a Backdoor Roth IRA on TurboTax
Backdoor Roth IRA Steps, Tutorials, and Walkthroughs
In this section, we'll explain exactly how to do the Backdoor Roth IRA process and how to report it on your tax return, whether you file on paper or using tax software. You can easily walk through these Backdoor Roth IRA steps at Vanguard, complete a Backdoor Roth at Fidelity, or knock out a Backdoor Roth IRA at Schwab, three of the most popular brokerage/mutual fund companies.
How to Perform and Report on Paper the Backdoor Roth IRA Process
While it is really just a two-step process, it is best to think of it as a six-step process. These steps don't all have to be done in order (it might be easier to do Step 3 before Step 1), but they will all need to be done.
Step #1 Contribute to a Traditional IRA
Make a $7,000 ($8,000 if 50+) non-deductible traditional IRA contribution for yourself and one for your spouse. You can use the same traditional IRA accounts every year—they just spend most of the time with $0 in them. Most fund companies, including Vanguard, don’t close the account just because there is nothing in it. I do this every January 2.
Step #2 Leave the Money in Cash
An account like a traditional IRA is not an investment, of course; just like a suitcase isn't clothing. When putting money in a traditional IRA, you also have to tell the IRA provider how you want to invest. In this case, just leave the money in cash, whether a money market fund or a settlement fund. At Vanguard, the settlement fund is the Federal Money Market Fund. You really don't want to have any gains (or especially any losses) between the contribution and conversion step because it makes the paperwork more complicated. The best way to minimize the gains is to leave it in cash (and then of course to do the conversion as soon after contribution as possible to minimize the “pennies” issue).
Step #3 Convert the Traditional IRA to a Roth IRA
Next, convert the non-deductible traditional IRA to a Roth IRA by transferring the money from your traditional IRA into your Roth IRA at the same fund company. If you don’t already have a Roth IRA there, you’ll need to open one. This can be done in a minute or two online at Vanguard, and it is essentially the same process as opening the traditional IRA. I do this the very next day after I make the contribution. It is very straightforward. When you transfer the money, the website will throw up a scary banner saying something like “THIS IS A TAXABLE EVENT.” That’s true. It is taxable. But the tax bill will be zero since you’ve already paid taxes on the $7,000 and couldn’t claim your contribution as a deduction because you make too much money. You can do Step 3 basically immediately after Step 1. Some companies will let you do it the same day. Other companies will make you wait until the next day or even a week or so. But there is no reason to wait months to do it.
Step #4 Invest the Money
Now you will need to select an investment for the money in your Roth IRA. If you already have an investment in there, you can simply add $7,000 to it. Otherwise, you will need to select an investment in accordance with your written investing plan. If you do not have a written investing plan yet, you can leave the money in cash or put it into a Target Retirement 2050 fund or another lifecycle fund until you get that part of your financial plan worked out.
Step #5 Beware of the Pro-Rata Rule
Get rid of any SEP-IRA, SIMPLE IRA, traditional IRA, or rollover IRA money. The total sum of these accounts on December 31 of the year in which you do the conversion step (Step 2) must be zero to avoid a “pro-rata” calculation (see line 6 on Form 8606) that can eliminate most of the benefit of a Backdoor Roth IRA.
You can get rid of these IRA accounts in three ways:
- Withdraw the money (not recommended, as the money would be subject to tax and/or penalties, not to mention DECREASING your tax-advantaged/asset-protected investment space).
- Convert the entire sum to a Roth IRA. Only recommended if it is a relatively small amount and you can afford to pay the taxes out of current earnings or taxable investments with relatively high basis.
- Roll the money over into a 401(k), 403(b), or individual 401(k). 401(k)s don’t count in the aforementioned pro-rata calculation. Some physicians even open an individual 401(k) at Fidelity, eTrade, or Vanguard (rollovers from traditional IRAs to solo 401(k)s is a recent addition to Vanguard) in order to facilitate a Backdoor Roth IRA.
Step #6 Fill Out IRS Form 8606 Correctly
The next part of the Backdoor Roth IRA is done months later when you (or your accountant) fill out your IRS Form 8606 on your taxes. Don't forget to do it or there is a $50 penalty. Remember that you need one form for each spouse: INDIVIDUAL Retirement Arrangements. You need to double-check this to make sure it is done right, even if you hire a pro to avoid screwing up this part. Advisors have told me that they have had to help clients fix dozens of these that tax preparers have done improperly. If you don't do it right, you'll pay taxes twice on your Backdoor Roth IRA contribution.
Page 1 (below) shows a “distribution” from your non-deductible IRA. Since the money was already taxed, the taxable amount on your distribution is zero. Line 1 is your non-deductible contribution. On Line 2, your basis is zero because you had no money in a traditional IRA on December 31 of last year (if you've been carrying a non-deductible IRA for years, this may not be zero). Line 6 is zero in a typical year. Note that TurboTax may fill this out a little differently (may leave lines 6-12 blank), but you end up with the same thing. Line 13 is the same as line 3, so the tax due is zero.
Here's an example from the 2023 version of Form 8606.
On page 2 (below), you are showing the Roth conversion. I'm not really sure why you have to do this twice (since you're just transferring the amounts from lines 8 and 11 and then subtracting them), but that's what the form calls for. As you can see, a Roth conversion of a non-deductible traditional IRA contribution without any gains is a taxable event; it's just that the tax bill is zero for it.
When double-checking your tax preparer's work, you want to concentrate on lines 2, 14, 15c, and 18, and make sure they're a very small amount, like zero, and not a very large amount, like $7,000. The form can get more complicated if you are doing other Roth conversions at the same time or if you made a contribution for the previous year (i.e., made your 2022 contribution in 2023). See below for more details.
Notice how there is no place on the form to put the date when you made the contribution or the date when you made the conversion. It isn't on the form your IRA custodian sends to the IRS (1099-R) either.
Do It All Again Next Year
You do not have to wait any period of time between the contribution and conversion. Each year, I make my Traditional IRA contribution on January 2, then convert it to a Roth IRA the next day or within a few days. That gets my investment money working as soon as possible and simplifies the record keeping. Vanguard won’t let you do it the same day (sometimes other providers will), so I have to wait one day anyway. Occasionally they'll make you wait up to a week. If you find you have a few pennies left in the account and are worried you'll get pro-rated, take a look at this post: Pennies and the Backdoor Roth IRA.
More information here:
How to Do a Backdoor Roth IRA with Vanguard
How to Do a Backdoor Roth IRA at Fidelity
How to Fix and Prevent Backdoor Roth IRA Mistakes
In this section, we're going to talk about how to fix and prevent common mistakes in the Backdoor Roth IRA process. To better organize these mistakes, we will break down the process into the six very clear steps used above and then will explain possible errors with each step and what to do about them.
6 Steps to Successfully Contribute to a Backdoor Roth IRA
- Step 1 – Contribute to traditional IRA ($7,000, $8,000 if 50+ for 2024).
- Step 2 – Invest the money in a money market fund.
- Step 3 – Move money from a Traditional IRA to a Roth IRA (i.e., a Roth conversion).
- Step 4 – Invest in your preferred investment (typically a stock, bond, or balanced index mutual fund).
- Step 5 – Ensure you have no money in a traditional IRA, SEP-IRA, or SIMPLE IRA on December 31 of the year you do the CONVERSION step.
- Step 6 – Report the transactions correctly on your taxes by filling out Form 8606.
Seriously. That's it. If you can do a cholecystectomy, you can do this. If you can work up a pulmonary embolus appropriately, you can do this. If you can manage hypertension well, you can do this. If you can fill a cavity, you can do this. Super easy.
However, people still manage to screw up on EACH of those six steps. Let's go through the mistakes people make, step by step.
How to Fix Backdoor Roth IRA Mistakes
Step 1 Error – Contributing Directly to a Roth IRA
An error that commonly occurs with a first Backdoor Roth IRA is that people simply don't realize that their income is too high to make a direct Roth IRA contribution. Instead of doing it indirectly (i.e., going through the Backdoor), which is no big deal even if you're under the limit, they contribute directly to a Roth IRA. Then they realize their Modified Adjusted Gross Income (MAGI) is over $146,000-$161,000 ($230,000-$240,000 Married Filing Jointly) for 2024. Now what?
Enter the Recharacterization
If you have made this error, now you have to recharacterize the Roth IRA contribution to a traditional IRA contribution. This basically makes it as though you never contributed to a Roth IRA but contributed to a traditional IRA instead. You usually have to call your IRA provider to get this done, but it's no big deal. In this section, I'll walk you through the details of how to do it.
You have until the due date of your tax return to do this (including extensions). So, if you made an IRA contribution in January of 2023 for the 2023 tax year, you have until October 15, 2024, to do a recharacterization. There's no penalty or anything to do it. You can do the opposite as well if you contributed to a traditional IRA but meant to contribute directly to a Roth IRA.
Bear in mind that starting in 2018, you can no longer do recharacterizations of Roth CONVERSIONS (not contributions). This eliminated the “Roth IRA Conversion Horserace” technique for tax reduction.
Until only a couple of years ago, I had thought there was a waiting period after a recharacterization to then reconvert the money to a Roth IRA. However, that rule was only for recharacterizations of conversions, not contributions. There has never been a waiting period for a recharacterization.
Any gains that occur before the final conversion are, of course, fully taxable at your ordinary income tax rate in the year of the final conversion.
The Income Limit
The first thing to determine is whether this post even applies to you. If your income is below a certain amount, you can just contribute directly to a Roth IRA. That amount depends on several things. First, it is a MODIFIED Adjusted Gross Income (MAGI). That number is very similar to your Adjusted Gross Income (AGI). Remember how tax Form 1040 works.
The first income line you come to is line 7b, your “Total Income.” When people think about income, this is generally what they think of. The third income line on the form is line 11b. This is your “Taxable Income.” This is what your tax bill is actually calculated from. It is basically your total income minus all of your deductions. In between those two, on line 8b, is another income, your “Adjusted Gross Income.” This is “the line” that people are talking about when they use the phrases “above-the-line deduction” and “below-the-line deduction.” If it comes out before your AGI is calculated, it is an above-the-line deduction. These are deductions such as self-employment tax, self-employed retirement plans, self-employed health insurance premiums, HSA contributions, student loan interest, alimony, tuition, and any IRA deductions. If it comes out after your AGI is calculated, it is a below-the-line deduction. These are EITHER your standard deduction OR your itemized deductions, like mortgage interest, state/local/property taxes, and charitable contributions. A MAGI is just a slight tweak to your AGI.
Below are the MAGI limits for direct Roth IRA contributions [2024]. If your MAGI is below the first number, you can just contribute to a Roth IRA directly. If your MAGI is over the second number, you cannot contribute at all. If your MAGI is between the two numbers, you can make a partial direct contribution (most shouldn't bother with this, just do it all through the Backdoor).
- Married Filing Separately (and lived with spouse for at least part of the year): $0-$10,000
- Married Filing Jointly: $230,000-$240,000
- Single or Head of Household: $146,000-$161,000
If you think you'll be anywhere close to that first number, do yourself a favor and just make your Roth IRA contribution indirectly, i.e., through the Backdoor (contribute to a traditional IRA and then convert that contribution to a Roth IRA). Since 2010, there has been no income limit on Roth conversions and there has never been an income limit on traditional IRA contributions, just your ability to deduct them.
How does a MAGI differ from an AGI? It's a very slight difference. Bear in mind that there are other MAGIs out there. We're only talking about the one that affects Roth IRA contributions here. But to get your MAGI, you simply take your AGI, subtract some income from it, and add back in some other income to it. The worksheet showing you how to do this is Worksheet 2-1 in Publication 590.
Basically, you subtract income from a Roth conversion and you add income from IRA deductions (not sure why you'd have this), student loan interest (if you are using this worksheet, you probably don't have this), tuition deduction (you probably don't have this), a couple of rare deductions for foreign income/deductions (you probably don't have these), some savings bond interest you probably don't have much of, and some employer-provided adoption benefits. For most people, your MAGI = your AGI since all of these deductions are pretty rare for the folks worried about this limit for direct Roth IRA contributions. So, focus on your AGI. That means if you contributed directly to a Roth IRA but late in the year realized you probably should not have, one easy fix is to get your AGI below that limit by contributing to an HSA or a self-employed retirement plan like an individual 401(k) or SEP-IRA. Note that giving a bunch of money to charity is NOT a solution to this problem because that is a below-the-line deduction.
How to Do an IRA Recharacterization
If you can't get your MAGI low enough, you will have to do an IRA recharacterization. As far as the IRS is concerned, a recharacterization is as though you never made the Roth IRA contribution at all but made a traditional IRA contribution instead. You don't report a recharacterization separately; you just report a traditional IRA contribution. Keep in mind as you read on the internet about recharacterizations that there used to be two types of them—a recharacterization of a Roth IRA CONTRIBUTION and a recharacterization of a Roth IRA CONVERSION. The second type was outlawed in 2018, but the first one, the one we're talking about today, is still perfectly legal. If you decide you want to undo a Roth conversion these days, you're simply out of luck. Here is how you do a recharacterization of a Roth IRA contribution:
- You tell Vanguard (or wherever your IRAs are) to recharacterize the Roth IRA contribution to a Traditional IRA contribution.
Yup. That's it. The brokerage takes care of the rest. You can read all about all of the rules in Publication 590 Chapter 1 if you want, but that's basically what they say. Don't believe me? Fine. Here are the IRS instructions:
How Do You Recharacterize a Contribution?
To recharacterize a contribution, you must notify both the trustee of the first IRA (the one to which the contribution was actually made) and the trustee of the second IRA (the one to which the contribution is being moved) that you have elected to treat the contribution as having been made to the second IRA rather than the first. You must make the notifications by the date of the transfer. Only one notification is required if both IRAs are maintained by the same trustee. The notification(s) must include all of the following information:
- The type and amount of the contribution to the first IRA that is to be recharacterized.
- The date on which the contribution was made to the first IRA and the year for which it was made.
- A direction to the trustee of the first IRA to transfer in a trustee-to-trustee transfer the amount of the contribution and any net income (or loss) allocable to the contribution to the trustee of the second IRA.
- The name of the trustee of the first IRA and the name of the trustee of the second IRA.
- Any additional information needed to make the transfer.
In most cases, the net income you must transfer is determined by your IRA trustee or custodian.
See what I mean? It's just a phone call. Any earnings that the account had in between the contribution and the recharacterization just go over with the contribution. No big deal.
You have until your tax filing date to do this. Most of the time, that's April 15 of the next year. However, the IRS is even more lenient than that. You actually can do this for an extra six months after your tax filing date, but you will have to refile your return.
Where Do You Report a Recharacterization?
If you hire somebody else to prepare your taxes, you can skip this section. If you do it yourself, you'll need to make sure you report this correctly. According to Pub 590, you report it on our old friend Form 8606.
Pub 590 says this:
Actually, that's really misleading. If you read Form 8606, you will see that the only time it ever mentions a recharacterization is to tell you NOT to put it on the form.
So, what is Pub 590 talking about? They're talking about this section in the 8606 instructions:
Reporting recharacterizations.
Treat any recharacterized IRA contribution as though the amount of the contribution was originally contributed to the second IRA, not the first IRA. For the recharacterization, you must transfer the amount of the original contribution plus any related earnings or less any related loss. In most cases, your IRA trustee or custodian figures the amount of the related earnings you must transfer. If you need to figure the related earnings, see How Do You Recharacterize a Contribution? in chapter 1 of Pub. 590-A. Treat any earnings or loss that occurred in the first IRA as having occurred in the second IRA. You can’t deduct any loss that occurred while the funds were in the first IRA . . . Report the nondeductible traditional IRA portion of the recharacterized contribution, if any, on Form 8606, Part I. Don’t report the Roth IRA contribution (whether or not you recharacterized all or part of it) on Form 8606. Attach a statement to your return explaining the recharacterization. If the recharacterization occurred in 2023, include the amount transferred from the traditional IRA on 2023 Form 1040, 1040-SR, or 1040-NR, line 4a. If the recharacterization occurred in 2024, report the amount transferred only in the attached statement, and not on your 2023 or 2024 tax return.
The bottom line is that you just report this recharacterized contribution on Form 8606 as if it were the regular old non-deductible traditional IRA contribution that you should have made in the first place. You also need to include a statement. What should your statement look like? I would write something like this:
“To whom it may concern:
I made a 2024 Roth IRA contribution of $7,000 on March 13, 2024, because I didn't know about the whole MAGI limit thing when I made the contribution. After becoming smarter, I recharacterized $7,137.14 (original contribution plus earnings) to a traditional IRA on November 4, 2024. Thank you for helping our country fund its government. You're the best.
Hugs and kisses from your favorite taxpayer,
James Dahle”
Seriously, it doesn't say what has to be on the statement, just that there is one “explaining the recharacterization.” You don't even have to tell them why you did the recharacterization. If you had a loss in the account between contribution and recharacterization, no big deal. It's still as though you made a $7,000 contribution to a traditional IRA and THEN it lost money. If you were able to deduct the contribution (you probably can't) you would get a $7,000 deduction. The IRA provider may also send you a Form 5498 (which has the recharacterized amount on line 4), but you don't actually do anything with it when you file your taxes. It's just an informational return.
Reconverting the IRA
Here is where it gets interesting. You've now fixed your mistake in the eyes of the IRS, going from an illegal Roth IRA contribution to a legal traditional IRA contribution (that is probably not deductible for you). But you aren't done with what you meant to do, which is put money into a Roth IRA. You now need to do a Roth conversion. You do it just like you normally would as if you had contributed originally to the Traditional IRA. You can do it the very next day if you like. You can probably even do it the same day; just make sure there is a paper trail showing the money was actually in the traditional IRA at some point. There used to be a waiting period after a recharacterization before you could do a Roth conversion on that money. But that waiting period only ever applied to the recharacterization of a Roth CONVERSION (which was no longer allowed starting in 2018) and NOT the recharacterization of a Roth CONTRIBUTION. So, there is no waiting period. Just reconvert convert it and go on your merry way.
I hope this information helps you fix your mistake. Just do your Roth IRA contributions through the Backdoor going forward, and you won't have this problem again.
Step 2 Error – Not Investing in a Money Market Fund in the Traditional IRA
What happens if you LOSE money in between the contribution and conversion step? This problem is easily avoided by using an investment like a money market fund that does not go down in value for that time period. But some people fail to do so and end up losing money. When they work their way through their IRS Form 8606, they discover they have basis left over that they can then carry forward indefinitely for years! No big deal; it just makes your paperwork more complicated. Perhaps at some point in the future, you'll do a Roth conversion of tax-deferred money and this carry-forward basis will reduce the tax on that event.
What if you MADE money in the account between contribution and conversion? This actually happens most of the time, so I wrote an entire post on it called Pennies and the Backdoor Roth IRA. Technically, any money earned between the contribution and conversion step is fully taxable at ordinary income tax rates in the year of the conversion. If it is less than 50 cents, you just ignore it. If it's more, you report it on your 8606 and pay taxes on it.
If it is still in the traditional IRA, either do another tiny Roth conversion or leave it there until you do next year's Backdoor Roth IRA process. Either is fine. If you were smart and just used a money market fund and did the conversion as soon as your IRA provider allowed it (usually less than a week and sometimes as early as the next day), this won't be much money and there won't be much tax due.
Step 3 Error – Forgetting to Do the Conversion
If you forgot to do the conversion step for eight months afterward, it could be a huge gain on which you're unnecessarily paying taxes. No way to fix this one, just pay your “stupid tax” and move on.
Step 4 Error – Forgetting to Invest the Roth IRA Money
Even worse than paying taxes on a huge gain is not getting the gain in the first place because you left the money sitting in cash for months. No way to fix this one either. Your “stupid tax” this time comes in the form of opportunity cost. Just get the money invested ASAP to stop the cash drag. Maybe you even got lucky and the market went down in between contribution and investment so now you get to buy low.
Step 5 Error – The Pro-Rata Rule
Some of the most common questions I get are from people who make a late contribution to a Backdoor Roth IRA. What do I mean by late? You are allowed to make an IRA contribution AFTER the calendar year ends. In fact, you have until Tax Day, usually April 15 unless you get an extension of up to six months. While it is to your advantage to contribute to retirement accounts as quickly as possible so that money can start compounding in a tax-protected way, I understand that we all have lots of good things to do with our money and sometimes this gets pushed back into the next calendar year. All it really does is complicate your paperwork a bit.
For example: if you made your 2023 IRA contribution in April 2024, instead of reporting both the contribution and the conversion on your 2023 taxes, you would report only the contribution there. The conversion would be reported on the taxes for the year you did the conversion, i.e., your 2024 tax return due in April 2025. Your 2023 IRS Form 8606 becomes a little simpler and your 2024 IRS Form 8606 becomes a little more complicated. Not a big deal if you can follow the simple instructions.
What confuses people, however, is the pro-rata rule. This is the rule that says you need to empty your traditional IRA by December 31 of the year you do the conversion. Since these folks have never filled out a Form 8606 (or apparently read the instructions), they assume that for a 2023 contribution they need to have a balance of $0 at the end of 2023, even if they didn't do the conversion step until 2024. That's simply not the case. The pro-rata rule isn't applied until the year of the conversion, i.e., December 31, 2024.
Emptying the IRAs
How do you empty those IRAs? You usually have two choices.
- Do a Roth conversion of the whole thing. This is what I generally recommend for small IRAs where the tax bill on the conversion would not be too onerous. It is quick and easy, and it increases the amount of tax-free assets you have.
- Roll the money into a 401(k) or 403(b), either that of your current employer, that of a past employer, or to your own individual 401(k) if you are self-employed. This is usually a better option if you have a large IRA where you would rather deal with the hassle than pay the tax bill during your peak earnings years.
How large is large and how small is small? It's going to vary by the person and how much disposable cash they have. Most would consider an IRA under $10,000 to be small and an IRA over $100,000 to be large. In between, it's a personal decision as to which would be better for you.
What If You Didn't Empty the IRA?
What if you screwed this one up? Your Backdoor Roth IRA conversion step just got pro-rata'd. There is a tax bill associated with that because most of your conversion was of tax-deferred money rather than post-tax money like it was supposed to be.
The fix for this is going to vary by the individual, but the easiest fix is to simply convert the entire IRA to a Roth IRA now, so you end up getting all your post-tax money into that Roth IRA. Another possible fix is to figure out a way to separate your basis in that IRA, roll the tax-deferred money into a 401(k), and then convert the basis left behind in the IRA.
Do yourself a favor and just empty the darn IRA by December 31. Keep in mind that this is usually not an instantaneous process, so don't put it off until you're on holiday break at the end of the year.
Step 6 Error – Screwing Up the Tax Forms
Both individual taxpayers and professional tax preparers screw up IRS Form 8606 all the time. In fact, some of them haven't even heard of a Backdoor Roth IRA. (Incidentally, this is one of the best questions to ask while interviewing a potential tax professional—”How many Backdoor Roth IRAs did you help last year?”)
The usual fix to this error is to file a 1040X (Amended Tax Return) and a new Form 8606. You can do this for the last three years if necessary. If you didn't file Form 8606 at all, you'll definitely want to do this. The key is to check lines 15c and 18 on Form 8606. They should both be a number very close to zero if the form is being completed correctly.
The tax preparer should NOT be filing Form 5439. If you did Steps 1-5 right, this form probably doesn't belong in your tax return.
A lot of people wonder about the 1099-R sent to them by their IRA provider and worry that it was done wrong and that it will cause them to pay taxes they shouldn't have to pay. Sometimes the form was filled out wrong, but mostly this is just a lot of anxiety. What gets people anxious is finding something on Line 2a “Taxable amount.” As long as the box on Line 2b is also checked “Taxable amount not determined,” you're golden. Don't worry about it. If it is not, have the IRA provider send you a new, correct form—either with $0 in 2a or the box in 2b checked (usually the latter). Here's what mine from a few years back looked like from Vanguard:
Note that Box 2b is checked, even though a taxable amount of $5,500.07 is being reported to the IRS.
Again, if you're not sure how to enter this into TurboTax, check out my TurboTax tutorial.
Still Confused About the Backdoor Roth?
Need more help with a Backdoor Roth IRA? I wish Congress would just lift the rule against direct Roth IRA contributions for high earners and save us all this hassle, but who knows if that will ever happen.
- If you made your contribution after the end of the year, check out Late Contributions to the Backdoor Roth IRA.
- Here's a step-by-step tutorial for doing a Backdoor Roth IRA at Vanguard.
- Here's a step-by-step tutorial for doing a Backdoor Roth IRA at Fidelity.
- Here is a step-by-step tutorial reporting the Backdoor Roth IRA in TurboTax.
- Here is my prior post on 17 Ways to Screw Up Your Backdoor Roth IRA.
- You can hire a professional to help you—either a good financial advisor or a good tax strategist can assist.
- You can also ask your peers for help on the WCI Forum, the Private WCI Facebook Group, and the WCI Subreddit.
Late Contributions to the Backdoor Roth IRA
While it is “cleaner” to make your contribution and your conversion all in the same calendar tax year, you can make your contribution up until your tax filing date of the next year. The key to filling out the 8606 correctly when you make a contribution after the calendar year is to recognize that the contribution step is reported for the tax year and the conversion step is reported for the calendar year. So imagine you did the following during the calendar year 2023:
- Made a 2022 IRA contribution (reported on 2022 8606)
- Did a Roth conversion of that contribution (reported on 2023 8606)
- Made a 2023 IRA contribution (reported on 2023 8606)
- Did a Roth conversion of that contribution (reported on 2023 8606)
Your forms would look like this:
2022 Form 8606 (Only Have to Fill Out Part I)
Note that all this serves to do is report basis for the next year. No tax is due. Since no conversion step was done during the calendar year 2022, you only have to fill out lines 1-3 and 14.
2023 Form 8606 (Must Fill Out Parts I and II)
Note that you've got to do all of Part I plus Part II for this year because you did the conversion step, unlike last year (2022). Let's go through this line by line.
Form 8606 – Part I
- Line 1 – That's the money you contributed for 2023 (which would be $6,500).
- Line 2 – This is your basis. Since you made a contribution for 2022 but didn't do a conversion until 2023, your basis is $6,000.
- Line 3 – $6,500 + $6,000 = $12,500.
- Line 4 – Remember this is asking about 2024, not 2023, and since you won't make the mistake of doing your contribution late again, this will be zero.
- Line 5 – $12,500 – $0 = $12,500.
- Line 6 – This is the line that triggers the pro-rata issue. Even though you made a 2022 contribution, you did so AFTER December 31, so this line would still be zero if you filled it out for 2022, which you didn't because you didn't do a conversion in 2022 and got to skip lines 4-13. But this is the 2023 form and since you converted your entire traditional IRA, this will be $0.
- Line 7 – This doesn't include conversions. Since you didn't take any money out of your traditional IRA this year except the conversion, this is $0.
- Line 8 – You converted a total of $12,500 this year to a Roth IRA, so $12,500.
- Line 9 – $0 + $0 + $12,500 = $12,500.
- Line 10 – $12,500/$12,500 = 1.
- Line 11 – $12,500 * 1 = $12,500.
- Line 12 – $0 * 1 = $0.
- Line 13 – $12,500 + $0 = $12,500.
- Line 14 – $12,500 – $12,500 = $0.
- Line 15a – $0 – $0 = $0.
- Line 15b – You didn't take money out of an IRA to help you survive a disaster, so $0.
- Line 15c – $0 – $0 = $0.
Part II
- Line 16 – Line 8 is $12,500 so $12,500.
- Line 17 – Line 11 is $12,500 so $12,500.
- Line 18 – $12,500 – $12,500 = $0.
Backdoor Roth IRA FAQs
Can I still do a Backdoor Roth IRA for last year?
You have until tax day (generally April 15, but as late as October 15 if you file an extension) of the following year to make your traditional IRA contribution. There is no deadline for the Roth conversion step; it can be done at anytime. Make sure you fill out the paperwork properly according to the section above about late contributions.
Can I do last year's IRA contribution and this year's IRA contribution at the same time and convert them at the same time?
Yes. Just remember to report last year's contribution on last year's Form 8606 and this year's contribution and the conversion on this year's Form 8606.
Does my 401(k), 403(b), 457(b), Roth IRA, or inherited IRA count toward the pro-rata calculation?
No. Only traditional IRAs, rollover IRAs, SEP-IRAs, and SIMPLE IRAs count. See line 6 of Form 8606 for details.
What if it is a separate IRA? Does it still count?
Yes. All IRAs count toward the pro-rata calculation.
What should I do with my rollover or traditional IRA to avoid pro-ration?
If it is small, convert it to a Roth IRA along with this year's traditional IRA contribution and pay the tax due on it. If large, try to roll it into your employer's 401(k) or if you have self-employment income, into your individual 401(k).
I got pro-rated. What now?
The easiest solution is to convert the entire IRA, SEP-IRA, or SIMPLE IRA that caused the pro-ration and is now composed of both pre-tax and after-tax money. That is also the most expensive solution. A harder solution that may save you some taxes involves isolating the basis in that IRA by rolling the rest of the account into a 401(k) and then convert just the basis to a Roth IRA.
I am leaving my employer. Should I roll my 401(k) or 403(b) into a traditional IRA? If not, what should I do with it?
If you put it into a traditional IRA it is going to cause any future Backdoor Roths to be pro-rated. Better options include leaving it where it is; rolling it into your new employer's 401(k) or 403(b); rolling it into your individual 401(k); or, if it is small, just converting the whole thing to a Roth IRA.
How much can I contribute to a Roth IRA via the Backdoor Roth IRA process?
In 2024, you are allowed to contribute $7,000 ($8,000 if 50+) per year for you and $7,000 ($8,000 if 50+) for your spouse. This includes all contributions to traditional and Roth IRAs. Rollovers/transfers do not count toward the annual contribution limit.
What should I invest the money into?
While in the traditional IRA for a day or two, leave it in cash. Once it is in the Roth IRA, invest it according to your written investing plan. If you don't have one, get one, but in the meantime it would be a good idea to put it into a lifecycle fund such as a Vanguard Target Retirement Fund.
Can I use the same traditional and Roth IRA each year or do I need new ones?
You can use the same ones each year.
The Backdoor Roth IRA process leads to more tax-free retirement account money for doctors and other high-income professionals. If you follow the simple steps outlined above, you will pay less in taxes, boost your returns, facilitate your estate planning, and increase your asset protection. Most members of The White Coat Investor community do these every year, and you should too.
What do you think? Are you doing Backdoor Roth IRAs? Why or why not? Any questions about it?
[This updated post was originally published in 2014.]
I have both a ROTH IRA and TRADITIONAL IRA with American Funds. I was trying to figure out how to use their online system to make a backdoor Roth transfer but the web site could not support it. When I spoke to customer service to ask for help, they said that it could be done, but that any such transfer would have to be reported to the IRS as an early distribution with penalties assessed. This seems different from the “Taxable event” warning given in the tutorial. Did something change in the tax code or is this a peculularity of American Funds?
American funds is correct – neither the tax code has changed nor is this specific to American Funds. I think the tax code is a little confusing at times BUT backdoor entry is for real. I have been doing it for the last 4 years. In fact, I am expecting my Roth IRA account to cross $100,000 any day now…..I already have a blog post drafted for the purpose, will publish it as soon as I reach six figures.
Coming back to your case – American funds is right. This will be considered a distribution. You will receive a 1099-R at year end with distribution code (box 7) as ‘2’ and ‘IRA/SEP/SIMPLE’ also checked. This means you will not owe taxes on the ‘principal contributions you made to traditional IRA that you are rolling over’. You still will owe taxes on any earnings. Try not to take the ‘money’ … ask American Funds to do the distribution and rollover ->this way chances of an error are minimized.
Sure. It’s a distribution. And it’s taxable. It’s just that the tax due is $0.
Just make sure that the contribution funds that are there in the traditional IRA were not tax-deductible, else the contributions will also be taxed on Roth conversions
Seems like a great reason to leave American Funds to me. Nothing has changed. Most likely, the person you spoke to has no idea what they’re talking about.
American funds is correct – neither the tax code has changed nor is this specific to American Funds. I think the tax code is a little confusing at times BUT backdoor entry is for real. I have been doing it for the last 4 years. In fact, I am expecting my Roth IRA account to cross $100,000 any day now…..I already have a blog post drafted for the purpose, will publish it as soon as I reach six figures.
Coming back to your case – American funds is right. This will be considered a distribution. You will receive a 1099-R at year end with distribution code (box 7) as ‘2’ and ‘IRA/SEP/SIMPLE’ also checked. This means you will not owe taxes on the ‘principal contributions you made to traditional IRA that you are rolling over’. You still will owe taxes on any earnings. Try not to take the ‘money’ … ask American Funds to do the distribution and rollover ->this way chances of an error are minimized.
Thanks for the info, WCI! I’ve been doing these backdoor Roths for several years since reading about them in a financial magazine. I’ve also tried to spread the word to colleagues, although usually their eyes glaze over when you start talking about this stuff.
Quick, probably stupid question.. A couple years ago, I contributed the full $5,500 to a Traditional IRA with this plan, but I accidentally didn’t convert it for another month or two. By then, it had earned a few cents of interest. I didn’t think I could convert more than the $5,500.00 I had contributed without some weird tax questions, so I left the 4 cents there. This year, could I contribute $5,499.95 to the traditional and then convert the full $5,500? Thanks!
Just contribution $5500 and convert $5500.04 this year. Remember you round your tax return to the nearest dollar. So no complications from a few pennies.
Thanks!
Thanks for your advice! One additional question.
My wife is self-employed (non-physician). We created a Solo-401(k) for her at Vangaurd this year and contributed her employee amount of $18 000 into a Roth account.
Now I am about to do the Backdoor Roth for the two of us. When she converts her $5500 traditional IRA into a Roth IRA – should this go into a different Roth IRA account or can it be to the same one she has set-up for her Solo-401(k)? And if the same one, will this lead to any problems regarding the $18000 limit that she can contribute to her Solo-401(k)?
Thanks!
The IRA is a different account than a 401(k). I can’t remember off hand if you can then roll Roth IRA money into Vanguard’s Roth 401(k), but even if you could, I wouldn’t as expenses are lower in the IRA. But it would have no effect on the 401(k) contribution limit.
Understood – thanks!
IRS website says “Roth IRAs can only be rolled over to another Roth IRA.” See here – https://www.irs.gov/Retirement-Plans/Retirement-Plans-FAQs-regarding-IRAs-Rollovers-and-Roth-Conversions
IF it were allowed, then like WCI mentioned – expense ratio would be the main consideration.
Most 401k plans have really bad investment choices as far as expense ratio is concerned but once in a while people do get lucky – for example, my current 401k has an S&P 500 index fund with an expense ratio of 0.02% – better than any other index fund I have ever seen 🙂
Thanks for the great link. I had either forgotten you can’t go Roth IRA to Roth 401(k) or never realized it in the first place.
Strange. Just tried doing this for the wife. Says it cannot be completed at VG. Anything I am doing wrong?
Opened a tIRA. Funded 5500. Money came in. 1 -2 days laters opened a ROth IRA at VG. Tried to transfer shares from tIRA to Roth IRA. Get that message about cannot be completed. Call VG hhhhmmmmm
Occasionally I have someone who has to call Vanguard to do it. No big deal. 5 minutes on the phone. Not sure if it is due to the recent combination of brokerage and mutual fund accounts, but as I recall it occasionally happened even before that.
Can you pm me and walk me through the steps for a backdoor IRA. I was told we do not qualify for a roth IRA because of our income. we currently have mutudal funds through Fidelity, so figured opening an IRA through fidelity would be best. Can you walk me through the steps to get started?
There are no private messages on a blog. I have your email. This post was written to walk you through the steps. I’m not sure what else I can write to you that I haven’t already written into this post, especially when you consider the 593 comments below covering just about every imaginable scenario. Do you have a specific question? If you’re just looking for an advisor who can physically do the required steps for you I can refer you to some, but it would be a lot cheaper to learn to do yourself. It’s not that complicated. First contribute to a traditional IRA. Then move that money to a Roth IRA.
You are not doing anything wrong, this is exactly the way this is supposed to be done.
Sometimes Vanguard just needs a filled in form. Read here: https://personal.vanguard.com/us/insights/guide/tips-rothira-conversion
I came across this discussion recently and am currently reading through it. I was planning to make 2015 and then 2016 contributions to my TIRA but now I’m thinking of doing the backdoor Roth. The problem is that my TIRA has at least a one year deductible contribution in it (I had no employer plan that year) and then the other years contributions are non deductible. I’m not sure how this would effect a backdoor Roth conversion. Any thoughts? Thanks
Tax calculations can get complex if your traditional IRA has prior contributions that were tax deductible and/ or there are earnings present in the account.
When you rollover assets from IRA to Roth IRA, you cannot choose which assets to rollover. If your IRA has contributions on which you got tax deduction in contribution years and other contributions that were not tax deductible; you cannot just choose to rollover either of them. The rollover has to be pro-rated. There is no way to differentiate dollars within IRA account.
Let us take an example – Let us say your total current balance in IRA (2014 contributions and before) is $25,000 – let us say 20k is principal contribution and 5k is gains part. Let us say, all of the 20k was tax deductible (you contributed 5k each for 4 years and were able to deduct the 5k when you filed your taxes).
Now you contribute 5.5k more for 2015 today (non-deductible), so total balance becomes 30,500. Tomorrow you convert all of that into Roth, you pay taxes on 20k ‘deductible’ contributions and 5k (profit).
If you were to convert only 5.5k tomorrow….then following is the calculation: Total balance = 30,500 out of which 25,000 is ‘taxable’ – so 82% is taxable…. so 82 cents of every dollar is taxable. Now if you convert 5500, then 5500 *.82 = $5,210 is taxable.
You can read my entire article here (I copy pasted the above example from my post): https://wp.me/p6V9kv-3X
You’ll have to convert it and pay taxes to do so. But if it is only a year or two of contributions, the bill won’t be too high so I’d go ahead and do it anyway.
So it appears I made one deductible contribution of $4000 in 2006 to my TIRA. If my employer 401k or 403b will accept it, can I just roll $4000 into the 401k or 403b and then just backdoor Roth the balance? It seems that thefinancebuff backdoor Roth instructions suggest this… But, do I somehow figure out and account for the earnings on that $4000? Thanks!
Please read my earlier response again – you cannot just convert $4,000. You cannot differentiate between the dollars present in your TIRA. It has to be pro-rated.
So if you have deductible contributions and non-deductible contributions, you cannot just choose to rollover deductible contributions.
As for figuring out the earnings – either you can do it yourself or ask the broker to do it – the rollover form has an option.
That’s not entirely true. Basis can sometimes be separated out using rollovers. You cannot just convert after-tax dollars to Roth dollars, however, without first separating out the basis.
Can you please give an example to explain what do you mean when you say basis can be separated out using rollover?
Sure, here’s an entire post about how I did it:
https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/how-to-get-your-tax-exempt-tsp-money-in-to-a-roth-ira/
Nicely written post but we are talking about different things in my humble opinion.
Your article talks about how to get the Thrift money to a Roth IRA. That part I have been doing very well for the last several years myself. https://wp.me/p6V9kv-eW
I was talking about traditional IRA accounts in particular – let us say there are some dollars in there that were tax deductible in the contribution year, there are some dollars in there that were not tax – deductible, and then there are some dollars that are gains. Between these three categories, I do not think there is a way to separate them – one cannot choose to do anything (say a rollover) with just the tax- deductible dollars or just the non tax – deductible dollars or just the gains dollars.
When I moved the money out of the TSP, what was the situation? Some of it was after-tax and some was pre-tax. Same as your situation. Read about separating basis. I mean, you can say it can’t be done all you like. I’ve done it.
Some more about it here: https://fairmark.com/retirement/roth-accounts/roth-conversions/isolating-basis-for-roth-conversion/
but I did it prior to the 2014 rule changes that make it easier. As the article explains, even experts disagreed on the rules.
It depends on your employer’s plan document. Some, like the TSP, only accept tax deferred money. So if you just roll in as much as you can, your basis (the after-tax money) will stay behind and you can convert it to a Roth tax-free. If the plan doesn’t specify that, or if it is just too weird for anyone to let you do it (this sort of thing is fairly rare), it probably isn’t the end of the world for you to just buck up and pay to convert both the $4K contribution and the earnings on all the money in the account. All you have to know is your basis- i.e. the total of the non-deductible contributions you have made in the past. You should be filing a form (8606) with your taxes every year which will tell you what that is.
Ok, so it appears in 2006 I put the deductible contribution of $4000 into vanguard target retirement then in 2008 I exchanged the whole balance into vanguard tips fund and have made no further contributions since then into this fund. All non deductible contributions have gone into other funds. So…I should be able to rollover the whole tips fund balance into a 401k or 403b and it would include the original $4000 plus all the additional earnings, correct? Then, the entire balance in the IRA will be non deductible contributions which can be converted to Roth. I just need to find out if my employer plans (fidelity) will accept the rollover. Am I missing something or am I good too go?
It isn’t that they accept the rollover, it’s that they will only accept the pre-tax money and not the after-tax money.
I contributed money earlier this year, first for myself and then for my husband, with the intention of doing the backdoor Roth. I did the conversion for myself about a month later but delayed on doing the one for my husband. He has earned $4.00 in interest on $13000 (he is over 50 and I contributed for 2014 and 2015). I saw an earlier post where someone earned $0.02 and you advised them to round it off to zero( around post #150, I think).
My questions are:
1. Do I convert his entire amount including gained interest to the backdoor roth or just the $13000, leaving the interest of $4.00 in the IRA,
2. If I leave the $4.00 in the IRA, do I contribute 6500-4=6496 for him in Jan 2016 to even it off for future years, thus avoiding this problem?
3. If I convert the $13000 with the gained interest, which line items will change on the form 8606?
Thanks so much. I was thinking of calling Vanguard to ask, but I trust to hear your thoughts first. Thanks
1. All of it. You’ll owe $1.00 in taxes.
2. Don’t leave it in there. But if you do, it has nothing tod o with the 2016 contribution. Put another $6500 in there (if over 50.)
3. Just follow the instructions for the form, it won’t be that bad. Also look at this post: https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/late-contributions-to-the-backdoor-roth-ira/
Don’t expect tax advice from Vanguard. If you can’t figure it out yourself (which you almost surely can) and can’t get a little help on a specific question here (which I’m more than willing to answer although I’m not going to reproduce an entire 8606 for everyone) or on a forum like Bogleheads or Fairmark, then you can hire a tax advisor to help.
You do not have a choice in the matter, you cannot just choose to convert the contributions.
Here is how I look at it – each dollar in the IRA is comprised of a taxable component and a non-taxable component, depending on the overall composition. Let us say your account balance was 20,000 and you had 13,000 non-deductible contributions and 7,000 gains. Then 35% is taxable. So 35 cents on every dollar you rollover to a Roth IRA will be taxed. If you roll over $5,000 dollars, then $1,750 will be taxed (and the rest $3,250 won’t be).
In your case – Like WCI asked to round off the $0.02, I think your $4 gains will also be rounded to zero. The last I checked, the taxable threshold from an IRA account was $10.
Even if you get taxed on $4, what is the big deal? You might pay $1 – $2 in taxes, not worth further research in my humble opinion.
You can read my entire post and personal experience at https://wp.me/p6V9kv-3X
I have a question about my wifes IRA. I just finished residency and my wife now stays at home with the kids. She currently has around 20k in a roth ira and 80k in a traditional ira. I really would like to take advantage of her roth ira but will not be able to roll her ira into a 401k, etc. To avoid the taxes of a backdoor roth. Would you slowly just pay taxes to convert all of it to a roth or leave it where it is. I will be making over 300k
Tough question. If it was $300K I’d say forget the backdoor Roth for her. If it was $30K I’d say just pay to convert it all. At $80K…..I could go either way. One thing you can do is just make non-deductible contributions for now and decide later whether to pay to convert. But bear in mind this is probably your lowest tax year for a long time to come.
Are there any state tax considerations for this conversion? I live in Michigan.
As a general rule, if you don’t owe federal taxes, you won’t owe state taxes. For a typical backdoor Roth IRA, no state or federal taxes are owed on the conversion.
I am trying to figure out the pro-rata rule and how it could apply to me. I have a 403b and a 457b with my current employer (which I am maxing out) and a traditional IRA with funds that were rolled over from my 401k from residency (~$20,000). If I wanted to fund a Roth account through the back-door, it is my understanding, that I would either have to convert all of my current traditional IRA into a Roth or roll it into and individual 401k (which I don’t think I can do since I am an employed physician). Am I correct in saying that I couldn’t just leave that traditional IRA alone, open another traditional IRA and use after-tax contributions in that account to convert them to a Roth?
If the existing traditional IRA is in my name, could I still fund a back-door Roth in my wife’s name if we are filing taxes jointly?
Thanks for your help. I am new to the blog and have found it insanely helpful. I bought the book and have used it to catch up. I wish I would have known about all of this in med school.
You could roll your IRA into your 403b and then do your own.
You could do your wife’s backdoor without doing anything.
Or you could just convert the $20K and pay the taxes on it. No big deal. Obviously if it was a $300K IRA that’d be a different story. Think of it as making an additional retirement account contribution.
So if my wife and I do not have an ira set up and we don’t qualify for a Roth because of our income do you know what options I can go with through fidelity? What kind of Ira should I open? Then convert to Roth next day?
Traditional IRA. Traditional IRA. Yes.
I have finished training this year and my wife has been working as an attending for 5 years. I was trying to set things up to do backdoor conversion this year and had already moved $9K (on 8/3/2015) that I had in a Rollover IRA into a traditional IRA at Fidelity where I also have a Roth IRA. I realize that if I convert the rollover IRA to Roth I will be subject to taxes on that portion, but I may already be committed since I moved it from a Rollover IRA to a traditional IRA? I don’t know if my current 403B accepts roll-ins, but since I already moved the money, probably best to just do the conversion and pay the taxes this year so we can continue to do this in the coming years? Thanks so much.
You can move money from both a rollover IRA or a traditional IRA into a 403B. They’re really the same thing. So you still have the option to either move the money into a 401(k)/403(b) or just pay to convert it. On $9K, I’d just pay the taxes and have a bigger Roth.
I just opened a Traditional IRA with Vanguard on (12/27) and contributed $5,500. I planned to convert the money the following business day. However, I found out my money is on hold for 7 days due to funding a new account with an electronic bank transfer. My money is not available until 1/4. You mentioned, I must convert the money to my Roth IRA by 12/31. What will be the consequences?
Are you sure the money isn’t available to do a Roth conversion or that the money isn’t available to be withdrawn?
If you truly can’t do the conversion until 1/4, it’s not that big a deal, it just makes the 8606 a bit more complicated. But do try to do it by the end of the year. Perhaps calling and talking to a rep this week would help.
After I opened my traditional IRA and converted it to a roth ira, what do I do next year? Do I do the same thing every year or directly contribute to the roth? THanks for all your help in this!
Unfortunately unless your income drops or the law changes, you have to repeat the process every year.
Thanks! Do you recommend having your taxes withheld or not withheld when doing the conversion?
There should be no taxes on a backdoor Roth IRA conversion, so not withheld. If it is a standard Roth conversion, then I also would not have them withheld (but make sure you have the money elsewhere.)
Thanks! I am 29.. Are you a fan of target date funds for the investment option for a roth? If not, what would you recommend for my fidelity investment options for the roth?
https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/7-reasons-i-dont-use-target-retirement-funds/
Fidelity has some great low-cost index funds, usually labeled “Spartan.” I’d probably use a reasonable combination of those.
First of all, thanks very much for having this website – found it as I was graduating residency, and it has been most helpful (along with the book).
I have a quick question, as I’m still new to all of this. Looking back at my 2015 numbers, I seem to have made a mistake in doing this backdoor Roth. In January 2015, I contributed $5500 to a traditional IRA. A few weeks later, I converted to a Roth IRA. However, in the intervening time, the value of the traditional IRA had gone up to $5540 (I must not have read carefully the part about putting contributions in a money market fund and had it in a Target Date fund). So it seems that I made an excess conversion to Roth. I still actually did contribute only $5500 but converted $5540.
Is this a problem, and if so, how can I fix it?
Thanks!
That’ll cost you about $10-15 in taxes. No big deal. No such thing as an excess conversion, you just owe taxes on the earnings.
Hi,
Given the hefty bills from CPA’s, I am planning on doing my own taxes this year using turbo tax. I am an independent contractor and have a home office. Can you please advice which of the two versions, Premier or Home & Business, will be appropriate for my case?
Appreciate your time.
Regards,
PM
Don’t know, they keep changing the product. But if you buy Premier and need home and business, you can always upgrade.
Questions-
Spouse and I both have a traditional IRA and Roth IRA and I would like to start doing backdoor Roth IRA for my accounts. However, Spouse is not interested in this method for his accounts yet. Will there be an issue come tax filing time since we file jointly? Do both traditional IRAs have to have zero balance in order for the backdoor conversion to be legit/ penalty free?
Thanks, and Happy New Year to all!
I converted $11K from traditional IRA to Roth IRA prior to 12/31/15, but an unfortunate issue has arisen. Since my wife changed positions, her prior employer issued an unauthorized distribution on her non-governmental 457B and closed the account. The total value of the account was 100K. The employer withheld 10K and sent a check to us for 90K (I/m guessing this will be 1099 income). In order to avoid a taxable event with this distribution, TIAA-CREF (current 457b holder) is suggesting starting a rollover IRA and completing tax form 5498 that would be allow us to keep this money and not get taxed this year. I had asked if they accepted indirect rollovers directly to the 457, but seems with this response, the answer is no.
I am a little conflicted because I am guessing this creates a situation where we are not eligible for Roth conversions if the distribution payout is in a rollover account. The alternative is to take it on the chin for the tax this year in order to be able to continue Roth conversions in the ensuing years. We are 37, so potentially the money lost to income tax this year would be reclaimed in as little as 5 years of Roth conversions, and we may stand to gain longterm if Roth conversions remain in their present state. Am I correct on this or am I missing something other than the fact that you have to pay attention to 457 accounts!
They’re willing to let it go into a traditional IRA? Do you have some kind of 403b or 401(k) you can roll that into? If so, just do that.
WCI, thank you so much for this website. A fellow physician friend of mine recently suggested your site, and it has completely changed my perspective on investing for retirement. If you don’t mind, I have a couple questions regarding the backdoor Roth. Like most residents, before I knew any better, I was approached by a financial advisor that set up a traditional IRA for me a few years back. I now have roughly 184K in that traditional IRA, which if I tried to convert now would be taxed heavily. My thoughts are to roll all of that money into an individual 401K at Fidelity like you mentioned, and then start over with your steps for setting up a backdoor Roth. A couple of caveats though, I also have an employer sponsored SIMPLE IRA, and my unemployed wife has a “spousal” Roth IRA. Can I still also have a backdoor Roth too? Thanks for your help.
When the student is ready, the teacher will appear….
Your spouse’s IRAs have nothing to do with yours. Totally separate. She can start/continue doing spousal backdoor Roth IRAs no matter what you do. The 401(k) rollover will work for your traditional IRA, but you’ve still got an issue with the SIMPLE with no good solution.
Hello WCI,
Young padawan investor here in my first year out of residency. During residency I contributed to my Roth fully every year. Now am making enough that I no longer qualify for a Roth IRA , but since i am single I qualify for a deduction on my traditional IRA. In 2017 I will get married, and be bumped out of the qualifying for IRA deduction.
Long story short should I not deduct my IRA (is this possible?) this year so that I can convert it without being a taxable event. I’m assuming (hopefully) that I will continue to climb tax brackets in the future so if there was ever a time not to deduct this would be it.
Thanks,
jeff
You seem mistaken. The IRA deduction phaseout is lower than the Roth IRA contribution phaseout. If you don’t have a plan at work, there is no phaseout for the IRA deduction, of course.
I’d just do the backdoor Roth if I were you.
Dear WCI,
Thanks as always for the excellent articles and advice. I am making the transition from Resident to Attending this calendar year, and for the first time my wife and I are each doing a Backdoor Roth IRA.
I have a rather trivial question, however maybe one that others have ran into after following the above tutorial.
Last week, I opened a Traditional IRA account, put $5,500 into the Vanguard Prime Money Market Fund. Vanguard would not allow me to convert the following day as it said that I had unavailable shares, the transaction was not settled. It took until the following day. Then I did the Roth conversion of the entire $5,500, the money was again kept in the Vanguard Prime Money Market Fund since I could not actually select another fund until the transaction was settled. I logged in the following day and was able to allocate the $5,500 according to our plan. All seemed to be well…
Then, I logged in today and found that there was a dividend posted on the Traditional IRA account in the amount of $0.18. The dividend posted after I had already done the conversion, and did not go with the $5,500. The 18 cents sits in the Traditional IRA account not in a fund, and not in the brokerage account settlement fund. I honestly don’t care about the 18 cents, and wish I did not get a dividend because it seems that all available options now will result in the processing of more useless paperwork.
Of the following options, which will result in the least amount of paperwork come tax time next year or the least amount of taxes? The only other IRAs we have are Roth, no others to mess up the Pro Rata.
1) Withdraw the $0.18 from the traditional IRA to zero the account. I assume Vanguard would supply a form that said I made an early IRA withdrawal of earnings which would be taxable plus the 10% penalty, and then I just pay the 10 cents in tax.
2) Attempt to convert the $0.18 into my Roth IRA to zero the account. I imagine this would make me need to file two Roth conversion forms and not just one, making that much more hassle for essentially no gain.
3) Leave the $0.18 in the Traditional IRA account. I assume this is bad as it would screw up the Pro-Rata calculation since the total traditional IRA account balance would not be $0.00 on Dec 31 2016.
4) None of the above.
Thanks for any thoughts you have. I honestly just wanted all of the numbers to stay $5,500, and did not think I would be getting a Money Marked Dividend after 3 total days in the account.
You’re right, it’s trivial. But surprisingly, it is a question I get at least a couple of times a month.
# 4- Leave the $0.18 in the account. In one year, when you do this again, move $5500.18 into the Roth IRA. Since you only report whole dollar amounts on your taxes, the IRS doesn’t care about that money.
I can’t however, figure out why you couldn’t do the entire thing at Vanguard over two days. This year, that probably worked to your advantage (as the market has dropped all week), so no sense in complaining, but I made my contribution, at Vanguard, on Monday into Prime MMF, then converted and invested it on Tuesday. Usually you can use “unsettled funds” to invest, you just can’t transfer them out to your bank account. As I recall, a box comes up and you have to click yes to do that. Maybe you checked no.
What is the advantage of transferring $5500.18 next year rather than doing it this year?
Never mind; I re-read the story. It sounds like Zach only converted $5500, but if I’m not mistaken, he could have converted the whole amount in one go, since there is no conversion limit for traditional –> Roth in a single year.
Thanks for the reply. I am glad I can do as you say and not fill out any extra forms.
As to why I could not do the Vanguard transactions over two days total, I am not sure either. I tried to transfer the funds from the account the next day from the Traditional IRA to the Roth IRA as you suggested, and it came up with a box that says “click ok to complete a Roth Conversion” or some such language. It knew that my attempted transfer was really a Roth Conversion and prompted me to a different page. On the main account balance page, one of the tabs on the Traditional IRA account actually says “Convert to Roth” Doing either of these methods pulls up the same page that gives the scary tax warnings about the conversion being a taxable event and allows one to complete the conversion. I had to wait another day to wait for the funds from the conversion to “settle” and then I was able to change the allocation.
Maybe the feature of being able to transfer / convert unsettled funds is a perk of being a Voyager or a Flagship level investor? At my lower level, Vanguard waited until the funds cleared from my bank to allow me to convert, and then waited until the conversion completed to allow me to reallocate.
Thanks again,
Zach
Same here – I opened the Traditional IRA yesterday and funded via EFT from my checking account (at a national bank). When I look at my account summary, the Traditional IRA balance is $5500, but when I try to convert, I get a message that “This account has no holdings available to convert.” I’ll give it another day and try again.
Shortcut to the right form – https://personal.vanguard.com/us/ConvertToRoth
If the money is in the settlement fund (Federal MMF I believe) you may have to wait a week.
Looks like 2 days was long enough…
Glad to hear!
Back with a question.
We want to do a backdoor Roth for my wife as well. She has a Vanguard Rollover IRA [funded from a previous job’s 401(k) or 403(b)], so to avoid the pro-rata rule, we need to first move this to a Solo 401(k). We want to do this with Fidelity, since Vanguard won’t allow rolling the Rollover IRA into a Solo 401(k).
She does some freelance work on the side (1099s and all) but has never had an EIN. When we tried applying for one on the IRS website, we got an error and were told we need to use the paper/mail form. Should be another 2-3 weeks before we have the EIN by mail. At that point, we can open the Solo 401(k), but I’m afraid that by the time Fidelity takes the money from Vanguard, we’ll miss the end of year deadline for the pro-rata calculation. (I’m not worried about when we do the back door Roth – if that happens in January 2019 for the 2018 tax year, so be it.)
HERE’S THE QUESTION: Is there any downside to opening a Fidelity Rollover IRA and transferring the money from the Vanguard rollover IRA to Fidelity, getting the ball rolling ASAP on the Vanguard–> Fidelity transfer. I assume that once the money is in Fidelity’s hands, moving it from a Rollover IRA to a Solo 401(k) will be relatively quick. This would allow the Fidelity/Vanguard sync up (which I expect to take a few weeks) to happen while we’re waiting for the EIN rather than doing one after the other. Am I missing anything?
Does she already have an EIN? I’ve seen that error before when I mistakenly applied for one twice for the same business.
I agree you have a time crunch.
It’s not the end of the world to miss the deadline. You get pro-ratad this year and then correct it next year. But probably best to wait until January 2019 at least for the conversion step. Now if you actually want to make sizeable contributions to the solo 401k this year, that’s another issue. Might be best to use a SEP-IRA for that and roll that into the 401K next year too.
Well, I am a bit late getting to this, but here goes… I opened a non-deductible IRA and put in a total of 10K (2010, 2011; 5K each year). I ended up not doing the Roth conversion because of the pro rata concern (I have a rollover IRA). The non-deductible IRA monies have been invested, and so there has been an ~$1,500 investment increase.
Can I still do the Roth conversion? If so, does this trigger any tax?
Thanks!
Have you fixed the pro-rata concern? If so, then you should only have to pay taxes on $1500 of gains, and then you get a $11,500 Roth IRA.
Hey,
I am still pretty confused as to the benefits of a Roth IRA. I am a new EM attending and had no 401K or IRA open prior to starting work this year. I am married and my wife has a 401K plan through her work and has made the maximum contributions this year. I have also made full contributions to my 401K (18K) this past year (2015) through my job. After reading your post I decided to open a traditional IRA a few days ago, have not yet contributed any money to the account. If I do make the 5500$ contribution to the account and then do a conversion to the backdoor IRA in the next few weeks, will I be able to reduce my taxable income this year by 5500 dollar? If not, what is the true benefit of going through all the hassle of opening the IRA and doing the conversion.
No.
Tax-free growth forever.