By Dr. Jim Dahle, WCI Founder
Setting up a Backdoor Roth IRA can be confusing, so I thought I’d put together a tutorial on the steps people can refer to when they go through this process. Let's get started.
Table of Contents
- What Is a Backdoor Roth IRA?
- Who Should Do a Backdoor Roth IRA?
- When to Do a Backdoor Roth IRA?
- Backdoor Roth IRA Pros and Cons
- Backdoor Roth IRA Tax Implications
- Backdoor Roth IRA Steps
- How to Fix and Prevent Backdoor Roth IRA Mistakes
- Backdoor Roth IRA FAQs
What Is a Backdoor Roth IRA?
Despite its name, a Backdoor Roth IRA is not an account; it is a process with two steps:
- Contribute to a Traditional IRA.
- Complete a Roth conversion.
If you understand the rules of both of these steps, putting them together is no problem.
Who Should Do a Backdoor Roth IRA
Remember that if you are a low earner you can just contribute DIRECTLY to a Roth IRA and skip this Backdoor Roth IRA process.
Roth IRA Limits and Conversion Rules
Low earner is defined as a Modified Adjusted Gross Income (MAGI) under a phaseout range in 2024 of $146,000-$161,000 ($230,000-$240,000 Married Filing Jointly). Some docs—like residents, employee dentists, part-timers, and even some medical attendings in the lower-paying specialties who are married to a non-earner—can just contribute to a Roth IRA directly.
Anyone who earns at least $7,000 ($8,000 if 50+) can contribute $7,000 ($8,000 if 50+) to an IRA [2024]. If your income is below a MAGI of $146,000-$161,000 ($230,000-$240,000 Married Filing Jointly), you can contribute directly to a Roth IRA. If you have a retirement plan offered to you at work and your MAGI is below $77,000-$87,000 ($123,000-$143,000 Married Filing Jointly), you can deduct your traditional IRA contributions. Since most readers of this blog have a retirement plan through their job and have (or soon will have) a MAGI over $240,000, they will find that they can't make direct Roth IRA contributions or deduct their traditional IRA contributions. Thus, their best IRA option is the Backdoor Roth IRA process, i.e., an indirect Roth IRA contribution.
Spousal IRAs
Married physicians should be using a personal and a spousal Roth IRA, and you will usually need to fund both indirectly (i.e., through the Backdoor). This provides an additional $7,000 each ($8,000 for each spouse that is 50+) of tax-protected and (in most states) asset-protected space per tax year, and it allows for more tax diversification in retirement. Tax diversification allows you to determine your own tax rate as a retiree by deciding how much to take from tax-deferred (traditional) accounts and how much from tax-free (Roth) accounts. Remember that IRA stands for INDIVIDUAL Retirement Arrangement, so even if the pro-rata rule (discussed below) keeps you from doing the Backdoor Roth IRA, it doesn't necessarily keep your spouse from doing so. Each spouse reports their Backdoor Roth IRA on their own separate 8606, so the tax return for a married couple doing Backdoor Roth IRAs should always include two Form 8606s.
Married Filing Separately
The contribution and deduction income limits are particularly low if you are filing your taxes Married Filing Separately (MFS). Both the ability to contribute directly to a Roth IRA and the ability to deduct a traditional IRA contribution if you (or your spouse) are eligible for a retirement plan at work phase out between $0 and $10,000. Basically, the best option for anyone filing their taxes MFS is the Backdoor Roth IRA process, i.e., an indirect Roth IRA contribution.
There is an exception to these rules if you do not actually live with your spouse. In that case, your ability to contribute directly to a Roth IRA phases out between a MAGI of $146,000-$161,000 in 2024. If you live separately and are not covered by a retirement plan at work, you can deduct a traditional IRA contribution no matter your income. You can still do a Backdoor Roth IRA process in these situations where your IRA contribution is either partially or completely deductible. The tax bill will be precisely the same: $0 when done properly. However, instead of having no tax cost for either the contribution or the conversion, your deduction on the contribution will precisely equal the tax cost on the conversion, resulting in that same $0 tax bill for the entire process.
Mega Backdoor Roth IRA
A Mega Backdoor Roth IRA is completely different from a regular Backdoor Roth IRA. Despite its name, you actually do a Mega Backdoor Roth IRA with a 401(k), not an IRA. It requires a 401(k) that accepts both after-tax (not Roth) employee contributions and allows for either in-service withdrawals (and thus conversions to a Roth IRA) or, more commonly, in-plan conversions. Using the Mega Backdoor Roth IRA process, one could put as much as $69,000 ($76,500 if 50+) [2024] per year into a Roth 401(k) (or possibly a Roth IRA in addition to your usual $7,000-$8.000 contribution). However, this process has nothing to do with the Backdoor Roth IRA process we are discussing in this post.
When to Do a Backdoor Roth IRA
Lots of people wonder about the timing of a Backdoor Roth IRA.
IRA Contribution Deadline
There is really only one deadline to meet with the Backdoor Roth IRA process. IRA contributions for a given tax year must take place between January 1 of the tax year and April 15 (even if you file an extension) of the following year.
Backdoor Roth IRA Conversion Deadline
The conversion step may take place at any time. It can take place the next day or even the same day as the contribution. I don't recommend it, but you can wait months, years, or even decades between the contribution and the conversion step. There is no deadline for Roth conversions. If you need to perform a rollover or a conversion of a traditional, rollover, SEP, or SIMPLE IRA in order to avoid the pro-rata rule, you have until December 31 of the year you do the conversion step.
When Should You Contribute and Convert?
You should do both steps as soon as possible. Many white coat investors do the IRA contribution step and the Roth conversion step the first week of January each year. This maximizes the amount of tax-free compounding that can occur on those dollars. Minimizing the time between contribution and conversion and doing both steps within the calendar year is not required, but it certainly simplifies the paperwork.
Want to really make your paperwork complicated? Contribute to your IRA each month and convert it each month. Then, you have 12 contributions and 12 conversions to keep track of each year. Seriously, though, if you make enough money that you have to contribute to your Roth IRA(s) through the Backdoor Roth IRA process, you make enough to do it at one time each year.
Can I Do a Backdoor Roth IRA Every Year?
Yes. My wife and I have done one every year since 2010 and do not plan to stop until we no longer have any earned income. It is just one of the investment chores we perform once a year.
5-Year Rule
One factor that may push you to do a Backdoor Roth IRA earlier is the five-year rule. Now, there are at least three five-year rules related to IRAs, but the main one to pay attention to here is the five-year rule after a Roth conversion. This rule determines whether the withdrawal of principal from the account prior to age 59 1/2 will be penalty-free. The five-year period starts on January 1 of the year you do the conversion, so it could be a little less than five years. Roth IRA principal generally comes out tax- and penalty-free (it is only the earnings that may be subject to penalties), but that is only the case after the five-year rule has been fulfilled.
In essence, if you do a conversion of a Roth IRA at age 51, you can then withdraw the principal tax- and penalty-free starting at age 56 rather than age 59 1/2. This can provide funding for living expenses to early retirees. If you do a Roth conversion at age 57, you still get access to that principal (and earnings) tax- and penalty-free at age 59 1/2. So, it's five years or age 59 1/2, whichever comes first.
There is also a completely separate five-year rule on IRA contributions, but this starts from the time you make your very first IRA contribution, not every contribution, so it should not apply to most early retirees.
Backdoor Roth IRA Pros and Cons
There are a lot of great things about the Backdoor Roth IRA, but it isn't all peaches and cream.
Pros of Backdoor Roth IRA
The main benefit of a Backdoor Roth IRA is that it provides you with another retirement account. Via the Backdoor Roth IRA process, you can continue to contribute to a Roth IRA even after your earnings rise above the income limit for direct Roth IRA contributions. Retirement accounts eliminate the tax drag that applies in a taxable, or non-qualified account, reducing your taxes and allowing your investment to grow at a higher rate so you can reach your goals sooner.
How much can that tax protection be worth compared to a taxable account? It depends on the return of the underlying investment, its tax efficiency, and the amount of time the money is left in the account. At my marginal tax rate, $10,000 earning 8% in a tax-inefficient investment over 50 years would grow to $469,000 in a Roth IRA but only $88,000 in a taxable account. More realistically, over 30 years, the use of a Roth IRA vs. a taxable account for a tax-efficient investment would still result in 29% more money.
Retirement accounts ensure simple estate planning. By using beneficiaries, that money does not go through the probate process, so your heirs get it sooner with less hassle, more privacy, and no cost. They can even stretch the tax-protected growth benefit for another decade after they inherit the account. Retirement accounts like a Roth IRA also provide substantial asset protection in most states, meaning that in the admittedly very rare event of a dramatically above-policy limits judgment that isn't reduced on appeal, you can declare bankruptcy and still keep what is in your retirement accounts. Roth money is tax-free forever, so by continuing to contribute each year, you can increase tax diversification in retirement.
Cons of Backdoor Roth IRA
Roth IRAs, even when you contribute via the Backdoor Roth IRA process, are still retirement accounts with all of their downsides. Retirement accounts limit the investments you can put in them and prohibit the use of margin investing. If you withdraw Roth IRA earnings prior to age 59 1/2 without an approved exception, you will owe a 10% penalty.
Due to the pro-rata rule (see below), the Backdoor Roth IRA process requires you to either convert or roll over into a 401(k) any traditional IRAs, SEP-IRAs, and SIMPLE IRAs you may have. If you have self-employment income, you will need to use a solo 401(k) instead of a SEP-IRA to shelter that income from taxes. Doing Backdoor Roth IRAs each year also adds one form (IRS Form 8606) per spouse to your tax return. If preparing your own taxes using tax software, it can be tricky to ensure the software reports the process correctly. If you do a Backdoor Roth IRA instead of (rather than in addition to) maxing out your tax-deferred accounts during your peak earnings years, that can also be a mistake that results in the accumulation of less money.
Perhaps most significantly, there are now two steps to getting money into your Roth IRA each year instead of just one. While I think the process is pretty darn simple, I am continually amazed at all of the unique ways that doctors manage to screw it up. Later in this article, I'll show you how to fix all of those screwups.
Is a Backdoor Roth IRA Worth It?
Yes! Most of the time. It really is just a little bit of hassle to do each year, although there may be some additional hassle the first year if you need to take care of another IRA first to avoid the pro-rata rule. There may be times when someone has a large traditional IRA they cannot afford to convert to a Roth IRA and cannot roll over into a 401(k) because they don't have a 401(k) at all, their 401(k) charges high fees, or because the IRA assets are invested in something they cannot invest in within a 401(k). If your employer-provided retirement account is a SIMPLE IRA or a SEP-IRA, the Backdoor Roth IRA process is also probably not worth it. Finally, some multi-millionaires don't want to bother with even the minor hassle of the Backdoor Roth IRA process because getting an extra $7,000-$16,000 a year into Roth accounts just isn't going to move the needle for them.
Backdoor Roth IRA Tax Implications
Roth IRAs are all about avoiding taxation on earnings, so naturally, there are lots of tax implications of this process.
Pro-Rata Rule
The most important tax implication to be aware of is the pro-rata rule. I would estimate that 90%+ of Backdoor Roth IRA screwups involve the investor having his or her conversion pro-rated. When you report a Roth IRA conversion on IRS Form 8606 (see below), there is a pro-rata calculation made. The numerator is the amount converted. The denominator is the total of ALL traditional, rollover, SEP, and SIMPLE IRAs, but not 401(k)s, 403(b)s, 457(b)s, Roth IRAs, or inherited IRAs. Therefore, it is critical that you DO SOMETHING with any IRA balance you have PRIOR to December 31 of the year in which you do a Roth conversion of after-tax money. Later in this article, I'll describe the exact options you have for what to do with this money.
Tax on Backdoor Roth IRA Conversion
Done properly, there is NO tax on a Backdoor Roth IRA conversion. Zero. Nada. Zilch. While the money you put into a Roth IRA (indirectly via the Backdoor in this case) was taxed when you earned it, it is NOT taxed when you contribute it directly to a Roth IRA or when you contribute it as a non-deductible IRA conversion or when you subsequently convert that money to a Roth IRA. In fact, it is never taxed again.
Do I Need to Worry About the Step Transaction Doctrine?
There used to be a concern that the IRS would have a problem with the Backdoor Roth due to an IRS rule called The Step Transaction Doctrine. This rule basically says that if the sum of a bunch of legal steps is illegal, then you can’t do it. Some wondered if this Backdoor conversion from a Traditional IRA to Roth was a legal transaction considering this doctrine. Those concerns, valid or not, are no longer an issue. The IRS clarified in early 2018 that no waiting period is required between the contribution and conversion steps of the Backdoor Roth IRA. It has essentially given its blessing on the whole process. Waiting just makes things more complicated on the 8606, as discussed in Pennies and the Backdoor Roth IRA.
How to Report a Backdoor Roth IRA on TurboTax
Reporting the Backdoor Roth IRA properly on TurboTax is unfortunately even more complicated than filling out Form 8606 by hand. The key to doing it right is to recognize that you report the conversion step in the Income section but you report the contribution step in the Deductions and Credits section. Since you generally do the income section first, you report the conversion before you report the contribution, even though you actually did the contribution before the conversion. At the end, you want to look at the Form(s) 8606 that TurboTax generates, just like you would check up on one filled out by an accountant.
More information here:
How to Report a Backdoor Roth IRA on TurboTax
Backdoor Roth IRA Steps, Tutorials, and Walkthroughs
In this section, we'll explain exactly how to do the Backdoor Roth IRA process and how to report it on your tax return, whether you file on paper or using tax software. You can easily walk through these Backdoor Roth IRA steps at Vanguard, complete a Backdoor Roth at Fidelity, or knock out a Backdoor Roth IRA at Schwab, three of the most popular brokerage/mutual fund companies.
How to Perform and Report on Paper the Backdoor Roth IRA Process
While it is really just a two-step process, it is best to think of it as a six-step process. These steps don't all have to be done in order (it might be easier to do Step 3 before Step 1), but they will all need to be done.
Step #1 Contribute to a Traditional IRA
Make a $7,000 ($8,000 if 50+) non-deductible traditional IRA contribution for yourself and one for your spouse. You can use the same traditional IRA accounts every year—they just spend most of the time with $0 in them. Most fund companies, including Vanguard, don’t close the account just because there is nothing in it. I do this every January 2.
Step #2 Leave the Money in Cash
An account like a traditional IRA is not an investment, of course; just like a suitcase isn't clothing. When putting money in a traditional IRA, you also have to tell the IRA provider how you want to invest. In this case, just leave the money in cash, whether a money market fund or a settlement fund. At Vanguard, the settlement fund is the Federal Money Market Fund. You really don't want to have any gains (or especially any losses) between the contribution and conversion step because it makes the paperwork more complicated. The best way to minimize the gains is to leave it in cash (and then of course to do the conversion as soon after contribution as possible to minimize the “pennies” issue).
Step #3 Convert the Traditional IRA to a Roth IRA
Next, convert the non-deductible traditional IRA to a Roth IRA by transferring the money from your traditional IRA into your Roth IRA at the same fund company. If you don’t already have a Roth IRA there, you’ll need to open one. This can be done in a minute or two online at Vanguard, and it is essentially the same process as opening the traditional IRA. I do this the very next day after I make the contribution. It is very straightforward. When you transfer the money, the website will throw up a scary banner saying something like “THIS IS A TAXABLE EVENT.” That’s true. It is taxable. But the tax bill will be zero since you’ve already paid taxes on the $7,000 and couldn’t claim your contribution as a deduction because you make too much money. You can do Step 3 basically immediately after Step 1. Some companies will let you do it the same day. Other companies will make you wait until the next day or even a week or so. But there is no reason to wait months to do it.
Step #4 Invest the Money
Now you will need to select an investment for the money in your Roth IRA. If you already have an investment in there, you can simply add $7,000 to it. Otherwise, you will need to select an investment in accordance with your written investing plan. If you do not have a written investing plan yet, you can leave the money in cash or put it into a Target Retirement 2050 fund or another lifecycle fund until you get that part of your financial plan worked out.
Step #5 Beware of the Pro-Rata Rule
Get rid of any SEP-IRA, SIMPLE IRA, traditional IRA, or rollover IRA money. The total sum of these accounts on December 31 of the year in which you do the conversion step (Step 2) must be zero to avoid a “pro-rata” calculation (see line 6 on Form 8606) that can eliminate most of the benefit of a Backdoor Roth IRA.
You can get rid of these IRA accounts in three ways:
- Withdraw the money (not recommended, as the money would be subject to tax and/or penalties, not to mention DECREASING your tax-advantaged/asset-protected investment space).
- Convert the entire sum to a Roth IRA. Only recommended if it is a relatively small amount and you can afford to pay the taxes out of current earnings or taxable investments with relatively high basis.
- Roll the money over into a 401(k), 403(b), or individual 401(k). 401(k)s don’t count in the aforementioned pro-rata calculation. Some physicians even open an individual 401(k) at Fidelity, eTrade, or Vanguard (rollovers from traditional IRAs to solo 401(k)s is a recent addition to Vanguard) in order to facilitate a Backdoor Roth IRA.
Step #6 Fill Out IRS Form 8606 Correctly
The next part of the Backdoor Roth IRA is done months later when you (or your accountant) fill out your IRS Form 8606 on your taxes. Don't forget to do it or there is a $50 penalty. Remember that you need one form for each spouse: INDIVIDUAL Retirement Arrangements. You need to double-check this to make sure it is done right, even if you hire a pro to avoid screwing up this part. Advisors have told me that they have had to help clients fix dozens of these that tax preparers have done improperly. If you don't do it right, you'll pay taxes twice on your Backdoor Roth IRA contribution.
Page 1 (below) shows a “distribution” from your non-deductible IRA. Since the money was already taxed, the taxable amount on your distribution is zero. Line 1 is your non-deductible contribution. On Line 2, your basis is zero because you had no money in a traditional IRA on December 31 of last year (if you've been carrying a non-deductible IRA for years, this may not be zero). Line 6 is zero in a typical year. Note that TurboTax may fill this out a little differently (may leave lines 6-12 blank), but you end up with the same thing. Line 13 is the same as line 3, so the tax due is zero.
Here's an example from the 2023 version of Form 8606.
On page 2 (below), you are showing the Roth conversion. I'm not really sure why you have to do this twice (since you're just transferring the amounts from lines 8 and 11 and then subtracting them), but that's what the form calls for. As you can see, a Roth conversion of a non-deductible traditional IRA contribution without any gains is a taxable event; it's just that the tax bill is zero for it.
When double-checking your tax preparer's work, you want to concentrate on lines 2, 14, 15c, and 18, and make sure they're a very small amount, like zero, and not a very large amount, like $7,000. The form can get more complicated if you are doing other Roth conversions at the same time or if you made a contribution for the previous year (i.e., made your 2022 contribution in 2023). See below for more details.
Notice how there is no place on the form to put the date when you made the contribution or the date when you made the conversion. It isn't on the form your IRA custodian sends to the IRS (1099-R) either.
Do It All Again Next Year
You do not have to wait any period of time between the contribution and conversion. Each year, I make my Traditional IRA contribution on January 2, then convert it to a Roth IRA the next day or within a few days. That gets my investment money working as soon as possible and simplifies the record keeping. Vanguard won’t let you do it the same day (sometimes other providers will), so I have to wait one day anyway. Occasionally they'll make you wait up to a week. If you find you have a few pennies left in the account and are worried you'll get pro-rated, take a look at this post: Pennies and the Backdoor Roth IRA.
More information here:
How to Do a Backdoor Roth IRA with Vanguard
How to Do a Backdoor Roth IRA at Fidelity
How to Fix and Prevent Backdoor Roth IRA Mistakes
In this section, we're going to talk about how to fix and prevent common mistakes in the Backdoor Roth IRA process. To better organize these mistakes, we will break down the process into the six very clear steps used above and then will explain possible errors with each step and what to do about them.
6 Steps to Successfully Contribute to a Backdoor Roth IRA
- Step 1 – Contribute to traditional IRA ($7,000, $8,000 if 50+ for 2024).
- Step 2 – Invest the money in a money market fund.
- Step 3 – Move money from a Traditional IRA to a Roth IRA (i.e., a Roth conversion).
- Step 4 – Invest in your preferred investment (typically a stock, bond, or balanced index mutual fund).
- Step 5 – Ensure you have no money in a traditional IRA, SEP-IRA, or SIMPLE IRA on December 31 of the year you do the CONVERSION step.
- Step 6 – Report the transactions correctly on your taxes by filling out Form 8606.
Seriously. That's it. If you can do a cholecystectomy, you can do this. If you can work up a pulmonary embolus appropriately, you can do this. If you can manage hypertension well, you can do this. If you can fill a cavity, you can do this. Super easy.
However, people still manage to screw up on EACH of those six steps. Let's go through the mistakes people make, step by step.
How to Fix Backdoor Roth IRA Mistakes
Step 1 Error – Contributing Directly to a Roth IRA
An error that commonly occurs with a first Backdoor Roth IRA is that people simply don't realize that their income is too high to make a direct Roth IRA contribution. Instead of doing it indirectly (i.e., going through the Backdoor), which is no big deal even if you're under the limit, they contribute directly to a Roth IRA. Then they realize their Modified Adjusted Gross Income (MAGI) is over $146,000-$161,000 ($230,000-$240,000 Married Filing Jointly) for 2024. Now what?
Enter the Recharacterization
If you have made this error, now you have to recharacterize the Roth IRA contribution to a traditional IRA contribution. This basically makes it as though you never contributed to a Roth IRA but contributed to a traditional IRA instead. You usually have to call your IRA provider to get this done, but it's no big deal. In this section, I'll walk you through the details of how to do it.
You have until the due date of your tax return to do this (including extensions). So, if you made an IRA contribution in January of 2023 for the 2023 tax year, you have until October 15, 2024, to do a recharacterization. There's no penalty or anything to do it. You can do the opposite as well if you contributed to a traditional IRA but meant to contribute directly to a Roth IRA.
Bear in mind that starting in 2018, you can no longer do recharacterizations of Roth CONVERSIONS (not contributions). This eliminated the “Roth IRA Conversion Horserace” technique for tax reduction.
Until only a couple of years ago, I had thought there was a waiting period after a recharacterization to then reconvert the money to a Roth IRA. However, that rule was only for recharacterizations of conversions, not contributions. There has never been a waiting period for a recharacterization.
Any gains that occur before the final conversion are, of course, fully taxable at your ordinary income tax rate in the year of the final conversion.
The Income Limit
The first thing to determine is whether this post even applies to you. If your income is below a certain amount, you can just contribute directly to a Roth IRA. That amount depends on several things. First, it is a MODIFIED Adjusted Gross Income (MAGI). That number is very similar to your Adjusted Gross Income (AGI). Remember how tax Form 1040 works.
The first income line you come to is line 7b, your “Total Income.” When people think about income, this is generally what they think of. The third income line on the form is line 11b. This is your “Taxable Income.” This is what your tax bill is actually calculated from. It is basically your total income minus all of your deductions. In between those two, on line 8b, is another income, your “Adjusted Gross Income.” This is “the line” that people are talking about when they use the phrases “above-the-line deduction” and “below-the-line deduction.” If it comes out before your AGI is calculated, it is an above-the-line deduction. These are deductions such as self-employment tax, self-employed retirement plans, self-employed health insurance premiums, HSA contributions, student loan interest, alimony, tuition, and any IRA deductions. If it comes out after your AGI is calculated, it is a below-the-line deduction. These are EITHER your standard deduction OR your itemized deductions, like mortgage interest, state/local/property taxes, and charitable contributions. A MAGI is just a slight tweak to your AGI.
Below are the MAGI limits for direct Roth IRA contributions [2024]. If your MAGI is below the first number, you can just contribute to a Roth IRA directly. If your MAGI is over the second number, you cannot contribute at all. If your MAGI is between the two numbers, you can make a partial direct contribution (most shouldn't bother with this, just do it all through the Backdoor).
- Married Filing Separately (and lived with spouse for at least part of the year): $0-$10,000
- Married Filing Jointly: $230,000-$240,000
- Single or Head of Household: $146,000-$161,000
If you think you'll be anywhere close to that first number, do yourself a favor and just make your Roth IRA contribution indirectly, i.e., through the Backdoor (contribute to a traditional IRA and then convert that contribution to a Roth IRA). Since 2010, there has been no income limit on Roth conversions and there has never been an income limit on traditional IRA contributions, just your ability to deduct them.
How does a MAGI differ from an AGI? It's a very slight difference. Bear in mind that there are other MAGIs out there. We're only talking about the one that affects Roth IRA contributions here. But to get your MAGI, you simply take your AGI, subtract some income from it, and add back in some other income to it. The worksheet showing you how to do this is Worksheet 2-1 in Publication 590.
Basically, you subtract income from a Roth conversion and you add income from IRA deductions (not sure why you'd have this), student loan interest (if you are using this worksheet, you probably don't have this), tuition deduction (you probably don't have this), a couple of rare deductions for foreign income/deductions (you probably don't have these), some savings bond interest you probably don't have much of, and some employer-provided adoption benefits. For most people, your MAGI = your AGI since all of these deductions are pretty rare for the folks worried about this limit for direct Roth IRA contributions. So, focus on your AGI. That means if you contributed directly to a Roth IRA but late in the year realized you probably should not have, one easy fix is to get your AGI below that limit by contributing to an HSA or a self-employed retirement plan like an individual 401(k) or SEP-IRA. Note that giving a bunch of money to charity is NOT a solution to this problem because that is a below-the-line deduction.
How to Do an IRA Recharacterization
If you can't get your MAGI low enough, you will have to do an IRA recharacterization. As far as the IRS is concerned, a recharacterization is as though you never made the Roth IRA contribution at all but made a traditional IRA contribution instead. You don't report a recharacterization separately; you just report a traditional IRA contribution. Keep in mind as you read on the internet about recharacterizations that there used to be two types of them—a recharacterization of a Roth IRA CONTRIBUTION and a recharacterization of a Roth IRA CONVERSION. The second type was outlawed in 2018, but the first one, the one we're talking about today, is still perfectly legal. If you decide you want to undo a Roth conversion these days, you're simply out of luck. Here is how you do a recharacterization of a Roth IRA contribution:
- You tell Vanguard (or wherever your IRAs are) to recharacterize the Roth IRA contribution to a Traditional IRA contribution.
Yup. That's it. The brokerage takes care of the rest. You can read all about all of the rules in Publication 590 Chapter 1 if you want, but that's basically what they say. Don't believe me? Fine. Here are the IRS instructions:
How Do You Recharacterize a Contribution?
To recharacterize a contribution, you must notify both the trustee of the first IRA (the one to which the contribution was actually made) and the trustee of the second IRA (the one to which the contribution is being moved) that you have elected to treat the contribution as having been made to the second IRA rather than the first. You must make the notifications by the date of the transfer. Only one notification is required if both IRAs are maintained by the same trustee. The notification(s) must include all of the following information:
- The type and amount of the contribution to the first IRA that is to be recharacterized.
- The date on which the contribution was made to the first IRA and the year for which it was made.
- A direction to the trustee of the first IRA to transfer in a trustee-to-trustee transfer the amount of the contribution and any net income (or loss) allocable to the contribution to the trustee of the second IRA.
- The name of the trustee of the first IRA and the name of the trustee of the second IRA.
- Any additional information needed to make the transfer.
In most cases, the net income you must transfer is determined by your IRA trustee or custodian.
See what I mean? It's just a phone call. Any earnings that the account had in between the contribution and the recharacterization just go over with the contribution. No big deal.
You have until your tax filing date to do this. Most of the time, that's April 15 of the next year. However, the IRS is even more lenient than that. You actually can do this for an extra six months after your tax filing date, but you will have to refile your return.
Where Do You Report a Recharacterization?
If you hire somebody else to prepare your taxes, you can skip this section. If you do it yourself, you'll need to make sure you report this correctly. According to Pub 590, you report it on our old friend Form 8606.
Pub 590 says this:
Actually, that's really misleading. If you read Form 8606, you will see that the only time it ever mentions a recharacterization is to tell you NOT to put it on the form.
So, what is Pub 590 talking about? They're talking about this section in the 8606 instructions:
Reporting recharacterizations.
Treat any recharacterized IRA contribution as though the amount of the contribution was originally contributed to the second IRA, not the first IRA. For the recharacterization, you must transfer the amount of the original contribution plus any related earnings or less any related loss. In most cases, your IRA trustee or custodian figures the amount of the related earnings you must transfer. If you need to figure the related earnings, see How Do You Recharacterize a Contribution? in chapter 1 of Pub. 590-A. Treat any earnings or loss that occurred in the first IRA as having occurred in the second IRA. You can’t deduct any loss that occurred while the funds were in the first IRA . . . Report the nondeductible traditional IRA portion of the recharacterized contribution, if any, on Form 8606, Part I. Don’t report the Roth IRA contribution (whether or not you recharacterized all or part of it) on Form 8606. Attach a statement to your return explaining the recharacterization. If the recharacterization occurred in 2023, include the amount transferred from the traditional IRA on 2023 Form 1040, 1040-SR, or 1040-NR, line 4a. If the recharacterization occurred in 2024, report the amount transferred only in the attached statement, and not on your 2023 or 2024 tax return.
The bottom line is that you just report this recharacterized contribution on Form 8606 as if it were the regular old non-deductible traditional IRA contribution that you should have made in the first place. You also need to include a statement. What should your statement look like? I would write something like this:
“To whom it may concern:
I made a 2024 Roth IRA contribution of $7,000 on March 13, 2024, because I didn't know about the whole MAGI limit thing when I made the contribution. After becoming smarter, I recharacterized $7,137.14 (original contribution plus earnings) to a traditional IRA on November 4, 2024. Thank you for helping our country fund its government. You're the best.
Hugs and kisses from your favorite taxpayer,
James Dahle”
Seriously, it doesn't say what has to be on the statement, just that there is one “explaining the recharacterization.” You don't even have to tell them why you did the recharacterization. If you had a loss in the account between contribution and recharacterization, no big deal. It's still as though you made a $7,000 contribution to a traditional IRA and THEN it lost money. If you were able to deduct the contribution (you probably can't) you would get a $7,000 deduction. The IRA provider may also send you a Form 5498 (which has the recharacterized amount on line 4), but you don't actually do anything with it when you file your taxes. It's just an informational return.
Reconverting the IRA
Here is where it gets interesting. You've now fixed your mistake in the eyes of the IRS, going from an illegal Roth IRA contribution to a legal traditional IRA contribution (that is probably not deductible for you). But you aren't done with what you meant to do, which is put money into a Roth IRA. You now need to do a Roth conversion. You do it just like you normally would as if you had contributed originally to the Traditional IRA. You can do it the very next day if you like. You can probably even do it the same day; just make sure there is a paper trail showing the money was actually in the traditional IRA at some point. There used to be a waiting period after a recharacterization before you could do a Roth conversion on that money. But that waiting period only ever applied to the recharacterization of a Roth CONVERSION (which was no longer allowed starting in 2018) and NOT the recharacterization of a Roth CONTRIBUTION. So, there is no waiting period. Just reconvert convert it and go on your merry way.
I hope this information helps you fix your mistake. Just do your Roth IRA contributions through the Backdoor going forward, and you won't have this problem again.
Step 2 Error – Not Investing in a Money Market Fund in the Traditional IRA
What happens if you LOSE money in between the contribution and conversion step? This problem is easily avoided by using an investment like a money market fund that does not go down in value for that time period. But some people fail to do so and end up losing money. When they work their way through their IRS Form 8606, they discover they have basis left over that they can then carry forward indefinitely for years! No big deal; it just makes your paperwork more complicated. Perhaps at some point in the future, you'll do a Roth conversion of tax-deferred money and this carry-forward basis will reduce the tax on that event.
What if you MADE money in the account between contribution and conversion? This actually happens most of the time, so I wrote an entire post on it called Pennies and the Backdoor Roth IRA. Technically, any money earned between the contribution and conversion step is fully taxable at ordinary income tax rates in the year of the conversion. If it is less than 50 cents, you just ignore it. If it's more, you report it on your 8606 and pay taxes on it.
If it is still in the traditional IRA, either do another tiny Roth conversion or leave it there until you do next year's Backdoor Roth IRA process. Either is fine. If you were smart and just used a money market fund and did the conversion as soon as your IRA provider allowed it (usually less than a week and sometimes as early as the next day), this won't be much money and there won't be much tax due.
Step 3 Error – Forgetting to Do the Conversion
If you forgot to do the conversion step for eight months afterward, it could be a huge gain on which you're unnecessarily paying taxes. No way to fix this one, just pay your “stupid tax” and move on.
Step 4 Error – Forgetting to Invest the Roth IRA Money
Even worse than paying taxes on a huge gain is not getting the gain in the first place because you left the money sitting in cash for months. No way to fix this one either. Your “stupid tax” this time comes in the form of opportunity cost. Just get the money invested ASAP to stop the cash drag. Maybe you even got lucky and the market went down in between contribution and investment so now you get to buy low.
Step 5 Error – The Pro-Rata Rule
Some of the most common questions I get are from people who make a late contribution to a Backdoor Roth IRA. What do I mean by late? You are allowed to make an IRA contribution AFTER the calendar year ends. In fact, you have until Tax Day, usually April 15 unless you get an extension of up to six months. While it is to your advantage to contribute to retirement accounts as quickly as possible so that money can start compounding in a tax-protected way, I understand that we all have lots of good things to do with our money and sometimes this gets pushed back into the next calendar year. All it really does is complicate your paperwork a bit.
For example: if you made your 2023 IRA contribution in April 2024, instead of reporting both the contribution and the conversion on your 2023 taxes, you would report only the contribution there. The conversion would be reported on the taxes for the year you did the conversion, i.e., your 2024 tax return due in April 2025. Your 2023 IRS Form 8606 becomes a little simpler and your 2024 IRS Form 8606 becomes a little more complicated. Not a big deal if you can follow the simple instructions.
What confuses people, however, is the pro-rata rule. This is the rule that says you need to empty your traditional IRA by December 31 of the year you do the conversion. Since these folks have never filled out a Form 8606 (or apparently read the instructions), they assume that for a 2023 contribution they need to have a balance of $0 at the end of 2023, even if they didn't do the conversion step until 2024. That's simply not the case. The pro-rata rule isn't applied until the year of the conversion, i.e., December 31, 2024.
Emptying the IRAs
How do you empty those IRAs? You usually have two choices.
- Do a Roth conversion of the whole thing. This is what I generally recommend for small IRAs where the tax bill on the conversion would not be too onerous. It is quick and easy, and it increases the amount of tax-free assets you have.
- Roll the money into a 401(k) or 403(b), either that of your current employer, that of a past employer, or to your own individual 401(k) if you are self-employed. This is usually a better option if you have a large IRA where you would rather deal with the hassle than pay the tax bill during your peak earnings years.
How large is large and how small is small? It's going to vary by the person and how much disposable cash they have. Most would consider an IRA under $10,000 to be small and an IRA over $100,000 to be large. In between, it's a personal decision as to which would be better for you.
What If You Didn't Empty the IRA?
What if you screwed this one up? Your Backdoor Roth IRA conversion step just got pro-rata'd. There is a tax bill associated with that because most of your conversion was of tax-deferred money rather than post-tax money like it was supposed to be.
The fix for this is going to vary by the individual, but the easiest fix is to simply convert the entire IRA to a Roth IRA now, so you end up getting all your post-tax money into that Roth IRA. Another possible fix is to figure out a way to separate your basis in that IRA, roll the tax-deferred money into a 401(k), and then convert the basis left behind in the IRA.
Do yourself a favor and just empty the darn IRA by December 31. Keep in mind that this is usually not an instantaneous process, so don't put it off until you're on holiday break at the end of the year.
Step 6 Error – Screwing Up the Tax Forms
Both individual taxpayers and professional tax preparers screw up IRS Form 8606 all the time. In fact, some of them haven't even heard of a Backdoor Roth IRA. (Incidentally, this is one of the best questions to ask while interviewing a potential tax professional—”How many Backdoor Roth IRAs did you help last year?”)
The usual fix to this error is to file a 1040X (Amended Tax Return) and a new Form 8606. You can do this for the last three years if necessary. If you didn't file Form 8606 at all, you'll definitely want to do this. The key is to check lines 15c and 18 on Form 8606. They should both be a number very close to zero if the form is being completed correctly.
The tax preparer should NOT be filing Form 5439. If you did Steps 1-5 right, this form probably doesn't belong in your tax return.
A lot of people wonder about the 1099-R sent to them by their IRA provider and worry that it was done wrong and that it will cause them to pay taxes they shouldn't have to pay. Sometimes the form was filled out wrong, but mostly this is just a lot of anxiety. What gets people anxious is finding something on Line 2a “Taxable amount.” As long as the box on Line 2b is also checked “Taxable amount not determined,” you're golden. Don't worry about it. If it is not, have the IRA provider send you a new, correct form—either with $0 in 2a or the box in 2b checked (usually the latter). Here's what mine from a few years back looked like from Vanguard:
Note that Box 2b is checked, even though a taxable amount of $5,500.07 is being reported to the IRS.
Again, if you're not sure how to enter this into TurboTax, check out my TurboTax tutorial.
Still Confused About the Backdoor Roth?
Need more help with a Backdoor Roth IRA? I wish Congress would just lift the rule against direct Roth IRA contributions for high earners and save us all this hassle, but who knows if that will ever happen.
- If you made your contribution after the end of the year, check out Late Contributions to the Backdoor Roth IRA.
- Here's a step-by-step tutorial for doing a Backdoor Roth IRA at Vanguard.
- Here's a step-by-step tutorial for doing a Backdoor Roth IRA at Fidelity.
- Here is a step-by-step tutorial reporting the Backdoor Roth IRA in TurboTax.
- Here is my prior post on 17 Ways to Screw Up Your Backdoor Roth IRA.
- You can hire a professional to help you—either a good financial advisor or a good tax strategist can assist.
- You can also ask your peers for help on the WCI Forum, the Private WCI Facebook Group, and the WCI Subreddit.
Late Contributions to the Backdoor Roth IRA
While it is “cleaner” to make your contribution and your conversion all in the same calendar tax year, you can make your contribution up until your tax filing date of the next year. The key to filling out the 8606 correctly when you make a contribution after the calendar year is to recognize that the contribution step is reported for the tax year and the conversion step is reported for the calendar year. So imagine you did the following during the calendar year 2023:
- Made a 2022 IRA contribution (reported on 2022 8606)
- Did a Roth conversion of that contribution (reported on 2023 8606)
- Made a 2023 IRA contribution (reported on 2023 8606)
- Did a Roth conversion of that contribution (reported on 2023 8606)
Your forms would look like this:
2022 Form 8606 (Only Have to Fill Out Part I)
Note that all this serves to do is report basis for the next year. No tax is due. Since no conversion step was done during the calendar year 2022, you only have to fill out lines 1-3 and 14.
2023 Form 8606 (Must Fill Out Parts I and II)
Note that you've got to do all of Part I plus Part II for this year because you did the conversion step, unlike last year (2022). Let's go through this line by line.
Form 8606 – Part I
- Line 1 – That's the money you contributed for 2023 (which would be $6,500).
- Line 2 – This is your basis. Since you made a contribution for 2022 but didn't do a conversion until 2023, your basis is $6,000.
- Line 3 – $6,500 + $6,000 = $12,500.
- Line 4 – Remember this is asking about 2024, not 2023, and since you won't make the mistake of doing your contribution late again, this will be zero.
- Line 5 – $12,500 – $0 = $12,500.
- Line 6 – This is the line that triggers the pro-rata issue. Even though you made a 2022 contribution, you did so AFTER December 31, so this line would still be zero if you filled it out for 2022, which you didn't because you didn't do a conversion in 2022 and got to skip lines 4-13. But this is the 2023 form and since you converted your entire traditional IRA, this will be $0.
- Line 7 – This doesn't include conversions. Since you didn't take any money out of your traditional IRA this year except the conversion, this is $0.
- Line 8 – You converted a total of $12,500 this year to a Roth IRA, so $12,500.
- Line 9 – $0 + $0 + $12,500 = $12,500.
- Line 10 – $12,500/$12,500 = 1.
- Line 11 – $12,500 * 1 = $12,500.
- Line 12 – $0 * 1 = $0.
- Line 13 – $12,500 + $0 = $12,500.
- Line 14 – $12,500 – $12,500 = $0.
- Line 15a – $0 – $0 = $0.
- Line 15b – You didn't take money out of an IRA to help you survive a disaster, so $0.
- Line 15c – $0 – $0 = $0.
Part II
- Line 16 – Line 8 is $12,500 so $12,500.
- Line 17 – Line 11 is $12,500 so $12,500.
- Line 18 – $12,500 – $12,500 = $0.
Backdoor Roth IRA FAQs
Can I still do a Backdoor Roth IRA for last year?
You have until tax day (generally April 15, but as late as October 15 if you file an extension) of the following year to make your traditional IRA contribution. There is no deadline for the Roth conversion step; it can be done at anytime. Make sure you fill out the paperwork properly according to the section above about late contributions.
Can I do last year's IRA contribution and this year's IRA contribution at the same time and convert them at the same time?
Yes. Just remember to report last year's contribution on last year's Form 8606 and this year's contribution and the conversion on this year's Form 8606.
Does my 401(k), 403(b), 457(b), Roth IRA, or inherited IRA count toward the pro-rata calculation?
No. Only traditional IRAs, rollover IRAs, SEP-IRAs, and SIMPLE IRAs count. See line 6 of Form 8606 for details.
What if it is a separate IRA? Does it still count?
Yes. All IRAs count toward the pro-rata calculation.
What should I do with my rollover or traditional IRA to avoid pro-ration?
If it is small, convert it to a Roth IRA along with this year's traditional IRA contribution and pay the tax due on it. If large, try to roll it into your employer's 401(k) or if you have self-employment income, into your individual 401(k).
I got pro-rated. What now?
The easiest solution is to convert the entire IRA, SEP-IRA, or SIMPLE IRA that caused the pro-ration and is now composed of both pre-tax and after-tax money. That is also the most expensive solution. A harder solution that may save you some taxes involves isolating the basis in that IRA by rolling the rest of the account into a 401(k) and then convert just the basis to a Roth IRA.
I am leaving my employer. Should I roll my 401(k) or 403(b) into a traditional IRA? If not, what should I do with it?
If you put it into a traditional IRA it is going to cause any future Backdoor Roths to be pro-rated. Better options include leaving it where it is; rolling it into your new employer's 401(k) or 403(b); rolling it into your individual 401(k); or, if it is small, just converting the whole thing to a Roth IRA.
How much can I contribute to a Roth IRA via the Backdoor Roth IRA process?
In 2024, you are allowed to contribute $7,000 ($8,000 if 50+) per year for you and $7,000 ($8,000 if 50+) for your spouse. This includes all contributions to traditional and Roth IRAs. Rollovers/transfers do not count toward the annual contribution limit.
What should I invest the money into?
While in the traditional IRA for a day or two, leave it in cash. Once it is in the Roth IRA, invest it according to your written investing plan. If you don't have one, get one, but in the meantime it would be a good idea to put it into a lifecycle fund such as a Vanguard Target Retirement Fund.
Can I use the same traditional and Roth IRA each year or do I need new ones?
You can use the same ones each year.
The Backdoor Roth IRA process leads to more tax-free retirement account money for doctors and other high-income professionals. If you follow the simple steps outlined above, you will pay less in taxes, boost your returns, facilitate your estate planning, and increase your asset protection. Most members of The White Coat Investor community do these every year, and you should too.
What do you think? Are you doing Backdoor Roth IRAs? Why or why not? Any questions about it?
[This updated post was originally published in 2014.]
Thank you for the amazing article.
I had originally contributed $6,500 to my Roth IRA in Jan 20203 before I realized that it would be beneficial to file Married Filing Separately due to student loan income driven repayment plan which will now only based on my income instead of combined income. After this realization, I sold some stocks win the roth IRA to have cash on hand and recharacterized my contribution as a traditional IRA contribution in Nov 2023. The custodian determined the contribution plus earnings was 7,306. Immediately following the recharacterization, I did a back door roth conversion for the full 7,306.
I am a little confused filling out form 8606. On line 1, is my nondeductible contribution 6500 or 7306?
6500
Your conversion amount (line 8) is 7306.
I did my Roth Conversion on February 17, 2023 for my backdoor Roth investment for 2022 tax purposes and my traditional IRA account was $0 on that date after the conversion. I saw the “cash balance” in my traditional IRA was $6.25 on 12/29/23. I don’t have any other traditional IRA accounts. Does this small amount of cash that is “held in money market” in my traditional IRA account still count towards the pro rata rule? The money is not invested in anything. If it does count what are my next steps before doing my backdoor Roth IRA for 2023 taxes?
Thanks for your advice.
Yes. Just convert it in 2024 and it’ll “clean up”, but you will be pro-rated (very slightly) on your 2023 conversion.
https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/pennies-and-the-backdoor-roth-ira/
Q1: So on 1040 line 4a should be $6500 and line 4b should be $0 right?
Q2: I’m having trouble getting my 8606 to look like the WCI example. After fiddling, I realize the tax software won’t make it as in the example unless I click yes for the 8606 question “were you covered by any retirement plan at work such as a 401k, etc.”….. BUT I’m a fellow and my W2 in box 13 does not have retirement plans checked (crappy residency/fellow plans), indicating i was NOT covered by a retirement. After thinking it through, I think the tax computing system is just trying to see if my IRA contribution is deductible by asking this question if I was covered by other retirement plans at work? By clicking “yes” to this question above, I’m bypassing the system and telling the system my backdoor IRA is “nondeductible” bc it is a backdoor, not a real tIRA. As soon as I click yes to this Q, the form comes out looking like the WCI example but if no, several lines are wrong or missing.
checking this box shouldn’t affect anything even though I wasn’t covered right? I hope I’m not causing any errors by clicking “yes” to were you covered by any retirement plans when my W2 clearly indicates I was not.
1. Yes.
2. Tax software often fills out the 8606 differently (read this post carefully for a discussion of why). As long as 15c and 18 are near zero on the 8606, I wouldn’t worry about that.
I agree with your assessment of why the software is asking that. However, some people actually get a tax deduction for their IRA contribution and then they pay taxes on their conversion. It works out exactly the same as not getting a tax deduction and then getting a free conversion. Depending on your income, filing status, and access to a workplace retirement plan, you might be in that category.
I made the rookie mistake of contributing (late, won’t happen again!) to a Traditional IRA in Feb 2024 for the year 2023 and then converted it to a Roth IRA the same day. I also, having only recently become an WCI convert, forgot to attribute it to a money market fund so it was invested and lost $1.84. So the amount that was converted was $6498.16, rather than the intended $6500. I’m planning on contributing to a backdoor IRA (the right way this time), later this year for the year 2024. For 2024 tax season purposes (filed in 2025), would that change the “amount converted” (line 8) from $13500 to $13498 (assuming $6498 + 7000 for the 2024 contribution) and subsequently lines 9, 11, 13, 16, and 17, as well? And would line 3 (total of my contributions to the Traditional IRA) technically remain $13500 despite the $2 loss it took before conversion?
This is what I have slated for my 8606 forms for the 2024 and 2025 tax years. Please let me know if this is incorrect!
8606 for 2024
1. 6500
2. 0
3. NO – 6500
4. –
5. –
6. –
7. –
8. –
9. –
10. –
11. –
12. –
13. –
14. 6500
15. 0
16. 0
17. 0
18. 0
8606 for 2025
1. 7000
2. 6500
3. 6500 + 7000 = 13500
4. 0
5. 13500
6. 0
7. 0
8. 13498
9. 13498
10. 1.000
11. 13498
12. 0
13. 13498
14. 0
15. 0
16. 13498
17. 13498
18. 0
Yes.
Yes.
Your dates seem wrong, should be 2023 and 2024, not 2024 and 2025.
Otherwise looks okay.
My wife and I did a back door Roth IRA for first time in 2023 -thanks to the great info on WCI-as we both opened new traditional IRAs and Roth IRAs and did the contribution to the tRIA and back door Roth conversion before the end of the year. I have an old employer 403b and new employer 401k and Roth 401K accounts as well as after tax Roth in plan conversion through employer through fidelity. My wife is currently unemployed but has an old employer 401k with Voya from
Her previous employer sponsored plan that has around 10k in it with all pre tax money that she kept there and did not transfer. We each had about 5 dollars at the end of 2023 (gained from dividend /interest in the traditional IRAs that we opened which we didn’t realize it stayed in tIRA until 2024 for which we contributed again 7000 each and did a back door Roth for 2024 for $7005 each to clear out the tIRA accounts ). We do not have other IRAs . When filing taxes for 2023 we filled 2 forms of 8606 and those 5 dollars earning will be the taxable amount on box 18 .The question is since we have both old employer 401K/403b does the prorata rule also apply for the money sitting in these accounts? are there any tax implications on the money sitting in the old 401k/403b employer sponsored accounts going forward ?
We have not yet filed our taxes.
Thanks a lot!
No, 401(k)s and 403(b)s don’t count toward the pro-rata calculation on Form 8606.
No.
I just got smarter this year and completed my 8606 correctly for my back door conversion. Unfortunately, I did not complete the forms correctly in 2021 or 2022. For these prior years I included the contribution on line 14 instead of 13, and I did not complete Part II. My conversions were done very close to the contribution and there is no additional tax liability, so no net tax implication. Do I need to amend the prior year forms 8606? What is the risk of not amending these?
It’s easy enough to fix so I would do so. I guess the risk is that you end up being taxed twice on your contribution or you get audited for some reason. Low risk but not zero and no cost to cleaning it up but a little time.
I wanted to do a Backdoor Roth for tax year 2023. I transferred $7,500 from my Charles Schwab investor checking to my Charles Schwab traditional IRA on 03/09/24. When transferring the money, Schwab website asked which year the contribution was for, I selected 2023(I put $0 into IRA’s for 2023 up to that point). I called into Charles Schwab to have them convert it to my Roth IRA via the Backdoor Roth process as my 2023 contribution. I was told 3 seperate times/calls I could not make/convert that as my Roth IRA contribution for 2023, that the traditional IRA to Backdoor Roth would be for 2024 tax year, that the conversion would count as my 2024 IRA contribution.
So I have $7500 sitting in a traditional IRA for 2023. How do I make that/convert that to my Roth IRA as my 2023 contribution, preferrably by the backdoor Roth process, also without just converting it to Roth IRA and paying tax on it? What am I doing wrong or explaining to Charles Schwab incorrectly?
Thank you
# 1 A conversion isn’t assigned to a specific year and there is no limit on it. Maybe the people you talked to thought you wanted to do a conversion in 2023, which it is now too late to do. That doesn’t keep you from doing a 2023 Backdoor Roth IRA though.
# 2 All those folks at Schwab were wrong. Despite how common this is for high earners, it’s not that common among Americans. Lots of people don’t understand it. You just have to take care of it yourself.
# 3 When making an IRA contribution between January and April, you can choose between 2023 and 2024.
# 4 So if I were you, I’d contribute another $7,500 to the account as a 2024 contribution, then convert the entire thing ($15,004 or so) to a Roth IRA. I’d just do it online, but if I couldn’t figure it out, I’d call Schwab up and tell them what I want to do using the proper terms. (I want to make a 2024 IRA contribution of $7,500 then I want to do a Roth conversion on the entire balance in that Roth IRA.)
This is the best website for information on Back Door Roth IRAs, thank you for having this website and keeping it up to date!
My question is: I contributed to a Traditional Roth and the day the funds were available, I converted it to a Roth IRA. However, even though the money was in the account for less than a day or two, I somehow received a dividend from the Fidelity Government Money Market cash account and now I keep gettting dividends. It is small ($14) and I kept that money in the Traditional IRA becase I only wanted to convert the exact amount of the Contribution to the Roth IRA. Do I need to report this money in the 8606? Should I just keep this in the Traditional IRA?
Thank you!
Just convert it to Roth and pay the tax on the $14.
https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/pennies-and-the-backdoor-roth-ira/
Thank you for the qucik reply. If I convert the $14 now in 2024, would I report that on the 2023 8606? Thanks again!
No. The 2024. Just convert it when you do your 2024 Backdoor Roth IRA during calendar year 2024.
Good to know, thank you! What if I do not need to do a Backdoor Roth IRA next year (depending on how much I make) and I directly contribute to my Roth IRA and convert the $14 to the Roth, will I need to report that $14 on a 8606?
Yes.
If there’s any doubt whether you need to fund through the Backdoor or not, just go through the Backdoor. Anyone is allowed to do that and then you won’t have any surprises.
I am completing my 2023 tax return through TurboTax. I filled out my 8606 form correctly showing that I still had $6.25 in my Fidelity Traditional IRA account on December 31, 2023. My Federal Refund was adjusted appropriately on TurboTax by paying tax for that $6.25. That money is still sitting in my Traditional IRA account at Fidelity though. My goal is to get that Traditional IRA balance to $0. I am probably going to be investing using another traditional ira account at Vanguard to do the backdoor Roth this year. Couple of questions:
1) When I move go to move that money in Fidelity to my Roth IRA the following warning comes up:
Tax withholding information
You may need to pay taxes on funds that haven’t been taxed when you convert your IRA to a Roth IRA, even though you’re not taking a cash withdrawal from your IRA.†
It’s usually a good idea to avoid paying taxes upfront on the money you’re converting to your Roth IRA. If you pay taxes now, you’ll have less left in your Roth IRA to potentially grow tax-free, and if you’re under 59½, you’ll also have a 10% penalty for withdrawing money early.
If you’d still like to pay taxes now, you can call Fidelity. Learn more about Roth IRA taxes
Box that asks me to check —-> I understand that I’ll likely have to pay taxes later
What do I do? Just move the money from the traditional IRA to Roth IRA and pay taxes now?
2) $7,000 – $6.25 = $6,993.75 . Is this the amount that I put into my traditional IRA for a backdoor roth at vanguard?
Thanks for your guaidance.
When filing taxes as married filing jointly, I noticed my spousal backdoor roth ira conversion is being reported as taxable retirement income. Why is that? I placed post-tax dollars to both our traditional iras, followed the steps appropriately and in a timely manner, and converted them towards our roth iras. Shouldn’t it show as a total IRA deduction of $0? Thanks in advance.
Maybe your contribution was deductible and thus the conversion is taxable. How high is your income (MAGI) and do you have a retirement plan at work?
My MAGI is shown as $160,026 and I do have a retirement plan at work. My wife doesn’t have any income/work retirement plan.
So one has to be under a work retirement plan to have their contribution as nondeductible? What if I were to add her to my work retirement plan/add as a beneficiary?
Your spouse’s IRA contribution is deductible.
https://www.irs.gov/retirement-plans/2023-ira-deduction-limits-effect-of-modified-agi-on-deduction-if-you-are-not-covered-by-a-retirement-plan-at-work
No big deal. You get a deduction on one part of your taxes and then pay the exact same amount back on another part. It all works out the same.
I am completing my 2023 tax return through TurboTax. I filled out my 8606 form correctly showing that I still had $6.25 in my Fidelity Traditional IRA account on December 31, 2023. My Federal Refund was adjusted appropriately on TurboTax by paying tax for that $6.25. That money is still sitting in my Traditional IRA account at Fidelity though. My goal is to get that Traditional IRA balance to $0. I am probably going to be investing using another traditional ira account at Vanguard to do the backdoor Roth this year. Couple of questions:
1) When I move go to move that money in Fidelity to my Roth IRA the following warning comes up:
Tax withholding information
You may need to pay taxes on funds that haven’t been taxed when you convert your IRA to a Roth IRA, even though you’re not taking a cash withdrawal from your IRA.†
It’s usually a good idea to avoid paying taxes upfront on the money you’re converting to your Roth IRA. If you pay taxes now, you’ll have less left in your Roth IRA to potentially grow tax-free, and if you’re under 59½, you’ll also have a 10% penalty for withdrawing money early.
If you’d still like to pay taxes now, you can call Fidelity. Learn more about Roth IRA taxes
Box that asks me to check —-> I understand that I’ll likely have to pay taxes later
What do I do? Just move the money from the traditional IRA to Roth IRA and pay taxes now?
2) $7,000 – $6.25 = $6,993.75 . Is this the amount that I put into my traditional IRA for a backdoor roth at vanguard?
Thanks for your guidance.
1) Check the box. It’s $2 of tax. You can afford it later I assure you. Yes, convert that $6.25 to Roth.
https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/pennies-and-the-backdoor-roth-ira/
2. No. You put $7,000 in there. The limit is on contributions. There is no limit to conversions.
Hi WCI,
My wife is graduating residency this July. I am graduating fellowship next July. If my thinking is right, for the year of 2024 we should start backdooring our Roth IRA contributions?
Background:
Maxed out wife Roth IRA this past year
Some contribution to my Roth IRA this year (didn’t max out), funded primarily my Roth 403(b) (with 6% match)
Casual 800k in student loans, just met with Andrew this past week to discuss repayment strategies
I sure would. You can still max out that 2023 Roth IRA until April 15th if you want. Wouldn’t be surprised if Andrew recommends PSLF and tax-deferred 401(k) contributions to you.
Thanks! We’re taking our loans to the corner and smacking the snot out of them. We’re both joining private practice groups. Just going to keep driving my Xterra and living like a resident
After reading every detail and thinking I mastered the Backdoor ROTH IRA in 2022 and 2023 (contributions and conversions in the same year), I received notice that on Dec 2023 a balance of ~$2k was rolled over to an IRA with Retirement Clearinghouse from “Vanguard Retail”. I didn’t even know of these funds, and assume they must have been from my prior employer’s 401k!
I took them out of Retirement Clearinghouse and rolled them into my Fidelity Rollover IRA in January 2024, and then rolled that $2k into my current employer’s 401k.
Now I’m very confused about what year I will need to edit my taxes, because I assume I am going to be pro-rated. Any advice?
Your 2023 conversion will be pro-rated. This is a mess. You’ve now rolled some pre-tax dollars in to your current 401(k) which probably isn’t even allowed. I wish you’d just converted that $2K instead. Maybe you can reverse that rollover and still do that.
The other alternative is pretend that other IRA didn’t exist before January 2024 and hope the IRS doesn’t notice that your 2023 conversion should have been pro-rated. But that’s definitely not the technically/academically correct thing to do.
Thank you!
Couple questions…
1. If I, ahem, do #2… how would I report that 2024 IRA rollover to my 401k on my 2024 taxes? Would this affect my 2024 Backdoor ROTH at all?
2. Why isn’t pre-tax money allowed into my current 401k during my attending job, since that’s all pre tax now? I believe the money that was leftover was my residency employer’s 401k pre tax match (because once I graduated I rolled over my entire residency ROTH 401k to a ROTH IRA, and I converted all (or what I thought was all) my employer’s pre tax match to my ROTH IRA and paid taxes on it on that year.
Now, for newly graduated residents out there — beware of additional money contributed by your employer after graduating… I still don’t know what that money was (face palm!)
1. You just would report $0 on line 6 of Form 8606 so your Backdoor Roth IRA wouldn’t be pro-rated.
2. It probably is. Not really sure what you’re saying/asking here.
Sorry for the additional questions, but may I ask why you recommend converting the 2k to my Roth IRA vs rolling the pre tax employer contributions to a current 401k?
Because it’s only $2K so the tax cost isn’t great and it’s a very simple thing to do a conversion.
Hi WCI,
Thank you for the amazing article. It has been incredibly helpful.
Having read through this article and your “Pennies and the Backdoor Roth IRA” article, I have a couple of inquiries.
A little background on my situation:
1) This is my first year filing my own taxes so I’m learning as I go.
2) Contributed $6500 to my Roth IRA in March 2023 for tax year 2023 under the assumption that my income would be under the MAGI limit for 2023.
3) Realized in March 2024 that my taxable income for 2023 exceeded the income limit to contribute to a Roth.
4) Opened a Traditional IRA in March 2024 for the purpose of recharacterization.
5) Recharacterized my Roth IRA contribution for tax year 2023 as a Traditional IRA contribution in March 2024.
6) Once the recharacterization of the contribution clears, I will immediately transfer the amount back into my Roth IRA as my backdoor for tax year 2023.
7) I have also contributed $6500 to my Roth IRA in January 2024 for tax year 2024 and will likely run into the same issue as with tax year 2023.
Should I do the following?
1) Recharacterize my $6500 contribution in January 2024 for tax year 2024 as a Traditional IRA contribution ASAP.
2) Convert the whole traditional IRA balance [$6500 (for 2023) + $6500 (for 2024) + any earnings) back into my Roth IRA as a backdoor prior to the tax filing deadline.
-or-
1) Wait to recharacterize the Roth IRA contribution for 2024 to a Traditional IRA after the tax filing deadline and follow through with the backdoor process of converting to my Roth.
2) Proceed with the instructions you provided above.
My goal is to fix my mistake of waiting to recharacterize and going through the backdoor process in 2024 for contributions for tax year 2023 and not run into the same issue moving forward.
Thank you very much for your assistance. (Will likely have more follow up inquires regarding form 8606!)
Actually, I might have answered my own question by re-reading the section above under “Late Contributions to the Backdoor Roth IRA”.
Would I simply follow the instructions that you have above under that section and instead of the years being 2022 and 2023, to treat them as 2023 and 2024?
Therefore, for form 8606 for tax year 2023, I would simply have to fill out part 1 to serve as the basis for tax year 2024 as there was no conversion in 2023. For 2024’s 8606 form, I would then have to fill out both part 1 and part 2 since the conversion for 2023 and 2024 were both done in 2024.
Just wanted to confirm that my procedure was correct. Thank you!
Yes
Thank you! Does it matter if the backdoor process is completed within a single transfer for both years or should it be done separately for the two tax years?
Can be done all together.
For the 2022 tax year, I accidentally contributed $6,000 to a Roth IRA but my income was too high so I did a recharacterization of the $6,000 to a traditional IRA in March 2023.
For the 2023 tax year, I received 2 1099-R forms. One 1099-R (Roth IRA account) is for the recharacterization for $5,727.38 which is the value in the Roth IRA account so that was distributed. Box 1 Gross distribution is $5,727.38 and box 2 taxable amount is zero. The other 1099-R (Traditional IRA account) is for $12,233.58 = $6,500 + $5,733.58 (I think the value in the Roth IRA account changed from the $5,727.38 so this is the value when the recharacterization took place). Per the recharacterization letter: the amount of the recharacterization reported on your next statement and tax forms issued next January (Form 5498 and Form 1099-R) may be slightly different than this calculation due to intra-day price fluctuations of the securities recharacterized.
How is this supposed to be reported on the Form 8606? Currently, the system is calculating $17,961 in Part II lines 16-17 and the rest of the form is blank. When I entered the 2 1099-R forms, the $17,961 is the $12,233.58 + $5,727.38 but I’m not sure if that’s correct or not.
However, I think Part I needs to be completed and Part II should be 12500 for lines 16 and 17?
1. 6500
2. 6000
3. 12500
5. 12500
8. 12500
9. 12500
10. x 1.0000
11. 12500
13. 12500
16. 12500
17. 12500
You told me the 1099s showed but not what you actually did and when so hard to fill your form out for you. In fact, I’m not even sure what year form we’re filling out here.
I’m filling out the 2023 Form 8606 so would like to know how to complete it for 2023 given the recharacterization in 2023 for the 2022 contribution and there being a loss for the $6,000 contributed to a Roth IRA. In 2022 calendar year, I accidentally contributed $6,000 to Roth IRA when income was too high. In March 2023, did a recharacterization of the Roth IRA to traditional IRA and then rolled it into a Roth IRA (backdoor Roth).
For the 2022 tax return, I included the recharacterization letter for the Roth IRA $6,000 contribution, but didn’t receive the 1099-R until May 2023. In 2023, I received 2 1099-Rs: One 1099-R (Roth IRA account) for $5,727.38 (for the recharacterization) and then another 1099-R (Traditional IRA account) for $12,233.58 = $6,500 (2023 contribution) + $5,733.58 (2022 contribution of $6,000 reduced by the loss while in the account. This is the Roth IRA recharacterized to a traditional IRA contribution in March 2023).
Okay. You still didn’t give me all the info so I’ll just guess that you did the 2023 contribution and conversion all in calendar year 2023. If not, adjust as needed. Also, don’t forget to file your 2022 8606.
1. 6500 for your 2023 contribution
2. 6000 for your 2022 contribution that was not converted until 2023.
3. 12500
4. 0
5. 12500
6. 0
7. 0
8. 12234
9. 12234
10. 1
11. 12234
12. 0
13. 12234
14. 266
15a 0
15 b 0
15c 0
16. 12234
17. 12234
18. 0
Thank you!! 2022 Form 8606 was already filed with the 2022 tax return and yes the 2023 contribution and conversion was all completed in calendar year 2023.
For 1040 pg 1, would the 12,234 be on line 4a then? Does the 1099-R (Roth IRA account) for $5,727.38 show up on 1040 page 1 or does it not have to be reported on the 1040 tax return pg 1?
4a IRA distributions
5a Pensions and annuities
Seems right. 12234 on 4a and 0 on 4b.
Thanks! So just to confirm, there’s no need to report the other 1099-R (Roth IRA account) for $5,727.38 on the tax return (Form 1040 pg 1, maybe on line 5a)?
Your tax software ought to do all this automatically. But when the 1099-R box 2b is checked, the 1099 issuer doesn’t actually know what’s taxable and what isn’t so you may have to “override” it a bit to get it right.
Details for the 2 1099-R forms received:
1099-R (Roth IRA account) – 5,727.38 in box 1 and box 2 is $0, 2b is not checked for either the taxable amount not determined or total distribution boxes. Distribution code is R and IRA/SEP/SIMPLE box is NOT checked.
1099-R (traditional IRA account) – 12,234 in box 1 and 2, box 2b checked for taxable amount not determined and total distribution checked. Distribution code 2 and IRA/SEP/SIMPLE box checked.
When the 1099-R (traditional IRA account) is entered, line 5a Pensions and annuities on Form 1040 page 1 reports the 12,234, but it’s not taxable so 5b is zero. When I enter the other 1099-R (Roth IRA account) for the 5,727.38, Form 8606 is incorrect as the output for the lines that are supposed to be 12,234 end up being the 17,961.38. (12,234 + 5,727.38 = 17,961.38), resulting in a taxable amount on page 2 Form 8606 (line 18).
I recharacterized from a Roth IRA to a Traditional IRA in March 2023 for the 2022 tax year but received the 1099-R in January 2024 so I assume that since the recharacterization relates to 2022 tax year and not the 2023 tax year, I don’t need to report the 1099-R (Roth IRA account) for the 5,727.38 recharacterization on my 2023 tax return? Is that a correct understanding?
If the 1099-R (Roth IRA account) for the 5,727.38 recharacterization needs to be shown my my 2023 tax return, which line on Form 1040 (e.g. line 4a or 5a)?
Also, for the 2024 tax year, would the 266 basis in traditional IRAs go to line 2? Is there a way to zero this out without tax penalties?
Thanks for the post. This is my first year doing this. Glad to have stumbled onto this post which gives specific examples/situations rather than re-reading the same old trite put out by every other financial site.
In my situation, I have ~$30k in a traditional IRA. I’ve gone through the options above and believe it makes sense to convert that to Roth and take the tax hit now, to let it grow in my Roth account. Now lets say I do that April 1st, 2024. Would I be able to provide a 2023 IRA contribution and convert that via backdoor Roth as well as do the same thing for 2024? Step 5 Error – The Pro-Rata Rule (last paragraph) mentions this should be possible, but I just want to make sure I’m looking at this the right way.
So the scenario is:
March 31st balance – IRA: $30k, Roth: $15k
April 1 balance (zero out traditional IRA) – IRA: $0k, Roth: $35k (Just assuming 33% tax levied on conversion, 15 + 30 (1-.33))
April 2 – Contribute for 2023 (should still be possible given the conversion is in 2024). IRA: $6.5k -> after a few days -> $0k, Roth IRA: $41.5k
April 5 – Contribute for 2024. IRA: $7k -> after a few days -> $0k, Roth IRA: $48.5k
I saw in another comment that you could perform both contributions at the same time, so I should be able to combine the April 2 and April 5 items into one line item that reads:
April 2 – Contribution for 2023 and 2024. IRA:$13.5k -> backdoor -> $0k, Roth IRA: $48.5k
Does this make sense? I would have a traditional IRA balance of $0 by December 31st of my CONVERSION Year (2024) which I think is the key point. If I’m overlooking something basic, please let me know. Thanks!
Sounds like you have got it.
We contributed to both our trad IRA and converted to a Roth through the backdoor in March for 2023 since we squeaked in before the deadline. Do I have to amend my 2023 taxes with the 8606 form or do I do both for 2024 contributions on my 2024 taxes? Running out of time and want to make sure we do this correctly.
If you made 2023 non-deductible traditional IRA contributions and have not yet reported them on an 8606 for 2023 then you need to do so.
I have a rather complicated story, and I would appreciate some guidance on how to disentangle this.
In 2023, I made the 2022 and 2023 traditional IRA contributions, in separate IRAs. One of them, where the 2023 contribution was applied, had ~$550 from a previous traditional IRA contribution in 2016 of ~$220 post-tax. The 2022 and 2023 contributions (separate IRAs), along with the full amount of the old (2016) contributions, plus gains, was rolled over to a Roth IRA in 2023. Fidelity provide two 1099-G forms, one for each IRA, and one 5498 for the Roth IRA. My accountant, who I have used since 2017 and OK the 2022 backdoor IRA, wants to declare the total amount (~13,000) as income based on the Fidelity 1099-Rs and 5498. They claim that Fidelity provided the wrong forms and that the 2022 contribution and conversion should have taken place in 2022 (despite me having in an e-mail their answer that I can do this in 2023). Both 1099-Rs have the 2b box checked.
Based on my understanding of the various blogs you have posted, I should submit an amended 2022 8606 with the 202 contribution , that was taken place in 2023, in Lines 1 and 4 and no conversion amount. As the basis for this from, I should use the ~$220 2016 contribution (I confirmed that it was declared in IRS but I cannot locate yet the 8606 of that year; my income was above the IRA limit, so no deduction was claimed). For the 2023 8606, I should in Line 1 the 2023 contribution ($6500), in Line 2, the total basis $6000+$220, and in Line 5 the total conversion amount. Unfortunately, one IRA had some interest paid after the Roth conversion and at the end of December 2023 there was $1.92 left. This should go in Line 6. Then, I estimate in Line 10 a factor ~0.994.
Could you guide on whether this sounds right or if I have to pay stupid tax? I will file for an extension, and I want to know if I have to pay any estimated taxes now before I figure this out. In parallel, I am researching on new cpas, but it is not the best season to get answers.
Thank you in advance.
If you’ve had post tax money in there for years, you should have been filing an 8606 every year. For every year of the last three that you didn’t do one or do it wrong, you should resubmit the form. I’d include an explanation with the first one and keep records showing that basis is actually basis.
I opened up a Traditional IRA and a Roth IRA for the first time in March of 2024. I made two non deductible contribution of 6,500 for tax year end (TYE) 2023, and 7,000 for TYE 2024 on March 4th 2024. Once the cash settled on March 8th 2024 i converted the full amount of 13,500 to my Roth IRA to complete the backdoor Roth process.
I detailed each of the steps I took above to my accountant and he is telling me that i completed the conversion “too early”, and that this resulted in an Excess Contribution to my IRA. He already prefilled form 5329 saying i had excess contributions of 7,000, and told me that because i did the conversion “too early” the 7,000 would have to be considered a contribution for 2023, not 2024. On my 8606 in line 1 he populated 13,500. I’ve done a good amount of research before hand so i felt pretty confident that what i did was correct, but not having an accounting background i feel like i don’t have a leg to stand on if he is telling me i did something wrong.
I reviewed your backdoor Roth IRA tutorial, and i see no mention of this potential pitfall. I have scoured the internet for the past three days and i see nothing on this “rule” my accountant is speaking of. I’ve gone back to my account two different times and said this doesn’t seem right and he hasn’t really budged on his opinion.
Are there any links where the IRS provided guidance on converting a late 2023 and 2024 non deductible contribution at the same time? Is there anything i can provide my accountant from any sort of governing body that would clear this situation up? Or did i actually make a mistake and he is right?
The only publications i can find from the IRS are Publications 590-A and 590-B. however I don’t see anything in there that details my exact scenario unless i overlooked it or just don’t understand it.
slight update. I just spoke to my accountant to get further clarification and the language he was basing his decision off of is “Enter Traditional IRA Contributions made for 2023, including any made between 1/1/24 and 4/15/24, any amounts later recharacterized to a Roth IRA, and any excess contributions, but not including any rollovers. also including any contributions to deemed IRAs under an employer plan”. The specific language he is saying is the reason for adding in the 7,000 2024 TYE contribution is “any amounts later recharacterized to a Roth IRA”.
He was saying that a recharacterization is the same as a conversion, but from what i can tell they are not. My understanding is that a recharacterization has to do with a distribution from an Traditional IRA that can be moved into a Roth within 60 days and does count towards a contribution limit. A conversion is more like a transfer and wouldn’t count towards my contribution limit.
Hope this additional detail is helpful, let me know if you need anything else.
thanks in advance.
I think your accountant is wrong. But I can’t force him to fill out your tax forms in the way I think he should. If you’re having the same problem, I suggest just having this one file an extension for you and going to find another one.
No, I’ve never heard of some minimum legal wait time between contribution and conversion. Certainly some providers make you wait a day or two for things to clear, but others will allow it all to be done in the same phone call.
And a recharacterization is different from a conversion.
I believe I did not fill 8606 correctly. Here’s my situation.
Rollover IRA (Broker X-Rollover): Employee 401k rolled over to a self-directed (Traditional) Rollover IRA Back in 2011. Note that I have never contributed to this account since. It has just grown in value through investments.
Traditional IRA (BrokerY-TradIRA): $0 at onset. Only used to fund into and then backdoor roth convert. Balance today 2024: $0
Roth IRA (Broker Y-Roth): Holds all the Backdoor Roth-converted money
Apr 13, 2020:
Started with Jan 1, 2019, $12K in Broker X-Rollover. Contributed $6K to BrokerY-TradIRA for 2019. Backdoor Roth converted to BrokerY-Roth.
BrokerY-TradIRA: $0 (EOY 2020)
BrokerX-Rollover: $13K (EOY 2020)
Mar 2021: Contributed $6K to BrokerY-TradIRA for 2020. Backdoor Roth converted to BrokerY-Roth.
May 2021: Contributed $6K to BrokerY-TradIRA for 2021. Backdoor Roth converted to BrokerY-Roth.
BrokerY-TradIRA: $0 (EOY 2021)
BrokerX-Rollover: $14K (EOY 2021)
Mar 2022: Contributed $6K to BrokerY-TradIRA for 2022. Backdoor Roth converted to BrokerY-Roth.
BrokerY-TradIRA: $0 (EOY 2022)
BrokerX-Rollover: $15K (EOY 2022)
Mar 2023: Contributed $6K to BrokerY-TradIRA for 2023. Backdoor Roth converted to BrokerY-Roth.
BrokerY-TradIRA: $0 (EOY 2023)
BrokerX-Rollover: $16K (EOY 2023)
Issue: I have not reported anything from BrokerX-Rollover since 2019 since I just realized after reading your article that this should have been reported. I assumed the RolloverIRA was just a self-managed 401K.
Starting with Tax year 2019 reporting, it is NOT clear as to what I should have reported. But please correct me if my understanding is correct for 8606 entries:
Tax Year 2019
Line 1: $6K
Line 2: $0 (reported by me)………Line 2: $12K (correct reporting)
Line 3: $6K (me)………Line 3: $18K (correct)
Line 4: $6K (me)………Line 4: $6K (correct)
Line 5: $0 (me)…………Line 5: $12K (correct)
Line 6: $0 (me)…………Line 6: $12K (correct)
Line 7: $0
Line 8: $0
Line 9: $0 (me)…………Line 9: $12K (correct)
Line 10: x (turbotax)…Line 10: 1.00 (correct)
Line 11: 0
Line 12: 0
Line 13: 0
Line 14: $6K (me, total basis for 2019 and earlier)….Line 14: $18K (correct)
15a: 0
15b:0
15c: 0
16:0
17:0
18:0
Anyhow, for 2020, 2021, 2022, I have NOT included my BrokerX-Rollover in Line 6.
Punchline: What do I need to do to rectify/amend my 8606 reporting for 2019~2023. Do I need to file 1040-X? I have been using TurboTax since 2019 to date.
Any help will be sincerely appreciated. I am sure I am not the only one who has (most likely) made this mistake.
You need to go back and file 1099Xs and 8606s for each of the last three years showing pro-rated conversions. Then you can do this year’s (2023) 8606 using accurate numbers. Too late to correct 2019 but that conversion should have been pro-rated too.
That will clean up the documentation, but you’ve still got a strategy issue now that you have an IRA with a bunch of basis and a bunch of pre-tax money in it. What’s your plan there? Are you going to convert the whole thing and pay the taxes on it or are you going to try to isolate the basis by rolling the pre-tax part of it into a 401(k) and then convert the remaining basis to Roth?
Refer to my posting above — Posting 1140. What is the best option to zero out my Broker X-Rollover (Value: >$100K) (401k rollover to Rollover IRA). Would it be to convert to self-managed 401K?
Fix the past tax forms.
Isolate the basis by rolling pre-tax money into a 401(k) whether an employer’s or your own.
Convert the leftover basis to Roth.
Refer to my comment above (posting 1120). What is the best option to zero out my BrokerX-Rollover (Value > $100K)? Would it be to convert it to self-managed 401K?
Hey WCI, thanks for the great articles! I had a question about filling out Form 8606. So the situation is – I did a late backdoor Roth contribution/conversion in 2023 (for 2022 tax year). I filled out my 2022 taxes to show the basis of $6000. Unfortunately, I am planning to do another late backdoor Roth contribution for 2023. I will also contribute to 2024 and convert the sum together.
For my 2023 tax returns Form 8606, I have the following values:
1) 6500
2) 6000
3) 12500
4) 6500
5) 6000
6) 0
7) 0
8) 6000 (2022 contribution that was converted in 2023 calendar year)
9) 6000
10)1.0
11)6000
12) 0
13) 6000
14) 6500
15a/b/c) 0
16) 6000
17) 6000
18) 0
My question is for line 6 – value of all tIRAs as of December 31, 2023; do I leave that value as 0, since I am contributing after that date? Even if it is a contribution for 2023 that hasn’t been converted yet? Thanks for the help, any advice is appreciated!
Yes, put it as zero. Just take the question at face value. What was in there on Dec 31st? $0 was. So put that. And make this easier on yourself by doing it “right” from now on.
Long story short, I did the Roth conversion step in 2023 for two years of contributions (6,000 from 2022 and $6,500 from 2023). I also made the mistake of investing some of the funds. So I contributed $12,500, but by the time I did the conversion, the value had decreased to $11,275. Eventually that all trickles down to Line 14, where I’m instructed to subtract $12,500 – $11,275 = $1,225. And apparently this becomes my new Basis and will be entered on Line 2 next year.
Is this something to worry about? I’m not sure I understand exactly what it means or the implications.
Thanks in advance
No, but it’s kind of a pain, thus why I recommend you don’t invest in between contribution and conversion. You haven’t done anything illegal or anything though.
So is it worth trying to get rid of it, perhaps by investing my new contributions and waiting it to grow before I do the conversion? Or is there some way to to “use” that amount later, such as when I start withdrawing for retirement?
You’ll probably use $5 or so of it every year just doing the regular process. But you could deliberately invest in the traditional IRA again before conversion to get rid of it if it really bothers you to carry it forward every year.
Hi, I had an employer 401k that I rolled over into Vanguard, so I know the pro rata rule applies here. However, I also had this situation above where I did the backdoor, contributing $6000 in March of 2023 for the 2022 tax year, then converted it to Roth IRA via backdoor. I then contributed $6500 later that year for 2023, doing the same backdoor method.
I know that means I have to adjust the basis, do I add the employer 401k amount to the $6000? I only received a 1099 R for 2023, not 2022, which leaves me a bit confused about whether I need to file an amendment now for 2022 to account for the $6000 I contributed to my Roth IRA via backdoor. Also, do I leave the amount of both years’ contributions in my 1099R reported number?
Thanks!
The 8606 form does the pro-rata calculation for your automatically. Your 2022 8606 will include the 2022 contribution. Your 2023 8606 will show the 2022 contribution, and the total of conversions done in 2023. That conversion will be prorated by the amount in the IRA as of 12/31/23.
If you didn’t fill out an 8606 for 2022, then you need to file one either with or without a 1040X. I say with, but it’s a bit controversial as to whether it’s really needed.
I don’t know what you’re asking with your last question.