By Dr. Jim Dahle, WCI Founder
Setting up a Backdoor Roth IRA can be confusing, so I thought I’d put together a tutorial on the steps people can refer to when they go through this process. Let's get started.
Table of Contents
- What Is a Backdoor Roth IRA?
- Who Should Do a Backdoor Roth IRA?
- When to Do a Backdoor Roth IRA?
- Backdoor Roth IRA Pros and Cons
- Backdoor Roth IRA Tax Implications
- Backdoor Roth IRA Steps
- How to Fix and Prevent Backdoor Roth IRA Mistakes
- Backdoor Roth IRA FAQs
What Is a Backdoor Roth IRA?
Despite its name, a Backdoor Roth IRA is not an account; it is a process with two steps:
- Contribute to a Traditional IRA.
- Complete a Roth conversion.
If you understand the rules of both of these steps, putting them together is no problem.
Who Should Do a Backdoor Roth IRA
Remember that if you are a low earner you can just contribute DIRECTLY to a Roth IRA and skip this Backdoor Roth IRA process.
Roth IRA Limits and Conversion Rules
Low earner is defined as a Modified Adjusted Gross Income (MAGI) under a phaseout range in 2024 of $146,000-$161,000 ($230,000-$240,000 Married Filing Jointly). Some docs—like residents, employee dentists, part-timers, and even some medical attendings in the lower-paying specialties who are married to a non-earner—can just contribute to a Roth IRA directly.
Anyone who earns at least $7,000 ($8,000 if 50+) can contribute $7,000 ($8,000 if 50+) to an IRA [2024]. If your income is below a MAGI of $146,000-$161,000 ($230,000-$240,000 Married Filing Jointly), you can contribute directly to a Roth IRA. If you have a retirement plan offered to you at work and your MAGI is below $77,000-$87,000 ($123,000-$143,000 Married Filing Jointly), you can deduct your traditional IRA contributions. Since most readers of this blog have a retirement plan through their job and have (or soon will have) a MAGI over $240,000, they will find that they can't make direct Roth IRA contributions or deduct their traditional IRA contributions. Thus, their best IRA option is the Backdoor Roth IRA process, i.e., an indirect Roth IRA contribution.
Spousal IRAs
Married physicians should be using a personal and a spousal Roth IRA, and you will usually need to fund both indirectly (i.e., through the Backdoor). This provides an additional $7,000 each ($8,000 for each spouse that is 50+) of tax-protected and (in most states) asset-protected space per tax year, and it allows for more tax diversification in retirement. Tax diversification allows you to determine your own tax rate as a retiree by deciding how much to take from tax-deferred (traditional) accounts and how much from tax-free (Roth) accounts. Remember that IRA stands for INDIVIDUAL Retirement Arrangement, so even if the pro-rata rule (discussed below) keeps you from doing the Backdoor Roth IRA, it doesn't necessarily keep your spouse from doing so. Each spouse reports their Backdoor Roth IRA on their own separate 8606, so the tax return for a married couple doing Backdoor Roth IRAs should always include two Form 8606s.
Married Filing Separately
The contribution and deduction income limits are particularly low if you are filing your taxes Married Filing Separately (MFS). Both the ability to contribute directly to a Roth IRA and the ability to deduct a traditional IRA contribution if you (or your spouse) are eligible for a retirement plan at work phase out between $0 and $10,000. Basically, the best option for anyone filing their taxes MFS is the Backdoor Roth IRA process, i.e., an indirect Roth IRA contribution.
There is an exception to these rules if you do not actually live with your spouse. In that case, your ability to contribute directly to a Roth IRA phases out between a MAGI of $146,000-$161,000 in 2024. If you live separately and are not covered by a retirement plan at work, you can deduct a traditional IRA contribution no matter your income. You can still do a Backdoor Roth IRA process in these situations where your IRA contribution is either partially or completely deductible. The tax bill will be precisely the same: $0 when done properly. However, instead of having no tax cost for either the contribution or the conversion, your deduction on the contribution will precisely equal the tax cost on the conversion, resulting in that same $0 tax bill for the entire process.
Mega Backdoor Roth IRA
A Mega Backdoor Roth IRA is completely different from a regular Backdoor Roth IRA. Despite its name, you actually do a Mega Backdoor Roth IRA with a 401(k), not an IRA. It requires a 401(k) that accepts both after-tax (not Roth) employee contributions and allows for either in-service withdrawals (and thus conversions to a Roth IRA) or, more commonly, in-plan conversions. Using the Mega Backdoor Roth IRA process, one could put as much as $69,000 ($76,500 if 50+) [2024] per year into a Roth 401(k) (or possibly a Roth IRA in addition to your usual $7,000-$8.000 contribution). However, this process has nothing to do with the Backdoor Roth IRA process we are discussing in this post.
When to Do a Backdoor Roth IRA
Lots of people wonder about the timing of a Backdoor Roth IRA.
IRA Contribution Deadline
There is really only one deadline to meet with the Backdoor Roth IRA process. IRA contributions for a given tax year must take place between January 1 of the tax year and April 15 (even if you file an extension) of the following year.
Backdoor Roth IRA Conversion Deadline
The conversion step may take place at any time. It can take place the next day or even the same day as the contribution. I don't recommend it, but you can wait months, years, or even decades between the contribution and the conversion step. There is no deadline for Roth conversions. If you need to perform a rollover or a conversion of a traditional, rollover, SEP, or SIMPLE IRA in order to avoid the pro-rata rule, you have until December 31 of the year you do the conversion step.
When Should You Contribute and Convert?
You should do both steps as soon as possible. Many white coat investors do the IRA contribution step and the Roth conversion step the first week of January each year. This maximizes the amount of tax-free compounding that can occur on those dollars. Minimizing the time between contribution and conversion and doing both steps within the calendar year is not required, but it certainly simplifies the paperwork.
Want to really make your paperwork complicated? Contribute to your IRA each month and convert it each month. Then, you have 12 contributions and 12 conversions to keep track of each year. Seriously, though, if you make enough money that you have to contribute to your Roth IRA(s) through the Backdoor Roth IRA process, you make enough to do it at one time each year.
Can I Do a Backdoor Roth IRA Every Year?
Yes. My wife and I have done one every year since 2010 and do not plan to stop until we no longer have any earned income. It is just one of the investment chores we perform once a year.
5-Year Rule
One factor that may push you to do a Backdoor Roth IRA earlier is the five-year rule. Now, there are at least three five-year rules related to IRAs, but the main one to pay attention to here is the five-year rule after a Roth conversion. This rule determines whether the withdrawal of principal from the account prior to age 59 1/2 will be penalty-free. The five-year period starts on January 1 of the year you do the conversion, so it could be a little less than five years. Roth IRA principal generally comes out tax- and penalty-free (it is only the earnings that may be subject to penalties), but that is only the case after the five-year rule has been fulfilled.
In essence, if you do a conversion of a Roth IRA at age 51, you can then withdraw the principal tax- and penalty-free starting at age 56 rather than age 59 1/2. This can provide funding for living expenses to early retirees. If you do a Roth conversion at age 57, you still get access to that principal (and earnings) tax- and penalty-free at age 59 1/2. So, it's five years or age 59 1/2, whichever comes first.
There is also a completely separate five-year rule on IRA contributions, but this starts from the time you make your very first IRA contribution, not every contribution, so it should not apply to most early retirees.
Backdoor Roth IRA Pros and Cons
There are a lot of great things about the Backdoor Roth IRA, but it isn't all peaches and cream.
Pros of Backdoor Roth IRA
The main benefit of a Backdoor Roth IRA is that it provides you with another retirement account. Via the Backdoor Roth IRA process, you can continue to contribute to a Roth IRA even after your earnings rise above the income limit for direct Roth IRA contributions. Retirement accounts eliminate the tax drag that applies in a taxable, or non-qualified account, reducing your taxes and allowing your investment to grow at a higher rate so you can reach your goals sooner.
How much can that tax protection be worth compared to a taxable account? It depends on the return of the underlying investment, its tax efficiency, and the amount of time the money is left in the account. At my marginal tax rate, $10,000 earning 8% in a tax-inefficient investment over 50 years would grow to $469,000 in a Roth IRA but only $88,000 in a taxable account. More realistically, over 30 years, the use of a Roth IRA vs. a taxable account for a tax-efficient investment would still result in 29% more money.
Retirement accounts ensure simple estate planning. By using beneficiaries, that money does not go through the probate process, so your heirs get it sooner with less hassle, more privacy, and no cost. They can even stretch the tax-protected growth benefit for another decade after they inherit the account. Retirement accounts like a Roth IRA also provide substantial asset protection in most states, meaning that in the admittedly very rare event of a dramatically above-policy limits judgment that isn't reduced on appeal, you can declare bankruptcy and still keep what is in your retirement accounts. Roth money is tax-free forever, so by continuing to contribute each year, you can increase tax diversification in retirement.
Cons of Backdoor Roth IRA
Roth IRAs, even when you contribute via the Backdoor Roth IRA process, are still retirement accounts with all of their downsides. Retirement accounts limit the investments you can put in them and prohibit the use of margin investing. If you withdraw Roth IRA earnings prior to age 59 1/2 without an approved exception, you will owe a 10% penalty.
Due to the pro-rata rule (see below), the Backdoor Roth IRA process requires you to either convert or roll over into a 401(k) any traditional IRAs, SEP-IRAs, and SIMPLE IRAs you may have. If you have self-employment income, you will need to use a solo 401(k) instead of a SEP-IRA to shelter that income from taxes. Doing Backdoor Roth IRAs each year also adds one form (IRS Form 8606) per spouse to your tax return. If preparing your own taxes using tax software, it can be tricky to ensure the software reports the process correctly. If you do a Backdoor Roth IRA instead of (rather than in addition to) maxing out your tax-deferred accounts during your peak earnings years, that can also be a mistake that results in the accumulation of less money.
Perhaps most significantly, there are now two steps to getting money into your Roth IRA each year instead of just one. While I think the process is pretty darn simple, I am continually amazed at all of the unique ways that doctors manage to screw it up. Later in this article, I'll show you how to fix all of those screwups.
Is a Backdoor Roth IRA Worth It?
Yes! Most of the time. It really is just a little bit of hassle to do each year, although there may be some additional hassle the first year if you need to take care of another IRA first to avoid the pro-rata rule. There may be times when someone has a large traditional IRA they cannot afford to convert to a Roth IRA and cannot roll over into a 401(k) because they don't have a 401(k) at all, their 401(k) charges high fees, or because the IRA assets are invested in something they cannot invest in within a 401(k). If your employer-provided retirement account is a SIMPLE IRA or a SEP-IRA, the Backdoor Roth IRA process is also probably not worth it. Finally, some multi-millionaires don't want to bother with even the minor hassle of the Backdoor Roth IRA process because getting an extra $7,000-$16,000 a year into Roth accounts just isn't going to move the needle for them.
Backdoor Roth IRA Tax Implications
Roth IRAs are all about avoiding taxation on earnings, so naturally, there are lots of tax implications of this process.
Pro-Rata Rule
The most important tax implication to be aware of is the pro-rata rule. I would estimate that 90%+ of Backdoor Roth IRA screwups involve the investor having his or her conversion pro-rated. When you report a Roth IRA conversion on IRS Form 8606 (see below), there is a pro-rata calculation made. The numerator is the amount converted. The denominator is the total of ALL traditional, rollover, SEP, and SIMPLE IRAs, but not 401(k)s, 403(b)s, 457(b)s, Roth IRAs, or inherited IRAs. Therefore, it is critical that you DO SOMETHING with any IRA balance you have PRIOR to December 31 of the year in which you do a Roth conversion of after-tax money. Later in this article, I'll describe the exact options you have for what to do with this money.
Tax on Backdoor Roth IRA Conversion
Done properly, there is NO tax on a Backdoor Roth IRA conversion. Zero. Nada. Zilch. While the money you put into a Roth IRA (indirectly via the Backdoor in this case) was taxed when you earned it, it is NOT taxed when you contribute it directly to a Roth IRA or when you contribute it as a non-deductible IRA conversion or when you subsequently convert that money to a Roth IRA. In fact, it is never taxed again.
Do I Need to Worry About the Step Transaction Doctrine?
There used to be a concern that the IRS would have a problem with the Backdoor Roth due to an IRS rule called The Step Transaction Doctrine. This rule basically says that if the sum of a bunch of legal steps is illegal, then you can’t do it. Some wondered if this Backdoor conversion from a Traditional IRA to Roth was a legal transaction considering this doctrine. Those concerns, valid or not, are no longer an issue. The IRS clarified in early 2018 that no waiting period is required between the contribution and conversion steps of the Backdoor Roth IRA. It has essentially given its blessing on the whole process. Waiting just makes things more complicated on the 8606, as discussed in Pennies and the Backdoor Roth IRA.
How to Report a Backdoor Roth IRA on TurboTax
Reporting the Backdoor Roth IRA properly on TurboTax is unfortunately even more complicated than filling out Form 8606 by hand. The key to doing it right is to recognize that you report the conversion step in the Income section but you report the contribution step in the Deductions and Credits section. Since you generally do the income section first, you report the conversion before you report the contribution, even though you actually did the contribution before the conversion. At the end, you want to look at the Form(s) 8606 that TurboTax generates, just like you would check up on one filled out by an accountant.
More information here:
How to Report a Backdoor Roth IRA on TurboTax
Backdoor Roth IRA Steps, Tutorials, and Walkthroughs
In this section, we'll explain exactly how to do the Backdoor Roth IRA process and how to report it on your tax return, whether you file on paper or using tax software. You can easily walk through these Backdoor Roth IRA steps at Vanguard, complete a Backdoor Roth at Fidelity, or knock out a Backdoor Roth IRA at Schwab, three of the most popular brokerage/mutual fund companies.
How to Perform and Report on Paper the Backdoor Roth IRA Process
While it is really just a two-step process, it is best to think of it as a six-step process. These steps don't all have to be done in order (it might be easier to do Step 3 before Step 1), but they will all need to be done.
Step #1 Contribute to a Traditional IRA
Make a $7,000 ($8,000 if 50+) non-deductible traditional IRA contribution for yourself and one for your spouse. You can use the same traditional IRA accounts every year—they just spend most of the time with $0 in them. Most fund companies, including Vanguard, don’t close the account just because there is nothing in it. I do this every January 2.
Step #2 Leave the Money in Cash
An account like a traditional IRA is not an investment, of course; just like a suitcase isn't clothing. When putting money in a traditional IRA, you also have to tell the IRA provider how you want to invest. In this case, just leave the money in cash, whether a money market fund or a settlement fund. At Vanguard, the settlement fund is the Federal Money Market Fund. You really don't want to have any gains (or especially any losses) between the contribution and conversion step because it makes the paperwork more complicated. The best way to minimize the gains is to leave it in cash (and then of course to do the conversion as soon after contribution as possible to minimize the “pennies” issue).
Step #3 Convert the Traditional IRA to a Roth IRA
Next, convert the non-deductible traditional IRA to a Roth IRA by transferring the money from your traditional IRA into your Roth IRA at the same fund company. If you don’t already have a Roth IRA there, you’ll need to open one. This can be done in a minute or two online at Vanguard, and it is essentially the same process as opening the traditional IRA. I do this the very next day after I make the contribution. It is very straightforward. When you transfer the money, the website will throw up a scary banner saying something like “THIS IS A TAXABLE EVENT.” That’s true. It is taxable. But the tax bill will be zero since you’ve already paid taxes on the $7,000 and couldn’t claim your contribution as a deduction because you make too much money. You can do Step 3 basically immediately after Step 1. Some companies will let you do it the same day. Other companies will make you wait until the next day or even a week or so. But there is no reason to wait months to do it.
Step #4 Invest the Money
Now you will need to select an investment for the money in your Roth IRA. If you already have an investment in there, you can simply add $7,000 to it. Otherwise, you will need to select an investment in accordance with your written investing plan. If you do not have a written investing plan yet, you can leave the money in cash or put it into a Target Retirement 2050 fund or another lifecycle fund until you get that part of your financial plan worked out.
Step #5 Beware of the Pro-Rata Rule
Get rid of any SEP-IRA, SIMPLE IRA, traditional IRA, or rollover IRA money. The total sum of these accounts on December 31 of the year in which you do the conversion step (Step 2) must be zero to avoid a “pro-rata” calculation (see line 6 on Form 8606) that can eliminate most of the benefit of a Backdoor Roth IRA.
You can get rid of these IRA accounts in three ways:
- Withdraw the money (not recommended, as the money would be subject to tax and/or penalties, not to mention DECREASING your tax-advantaged/asset-protected investment space).
- Convert the entire sum to a Roth IRA. Only recommended if it is a relatively small amount and you can afford to pay the taxes out of current earnings or taxable investments with relatively high basis.
- Roll the money over into a 401(k), 403(b), or individual 401(k). 401(k)s don’t count in the aforementioned pro-rata calculation. Some physicians even open an individual 401(k) at Fidelity, eTrade, or Vanguard (rollovers from traditional IRAs to solo 401(k)s is a recent addition to Vanguard) in order to facilitate a Backdoor Roth IRA.
Step #6 Fill Out IRS Form 8606 Correctly
The next part of the Backdoor Roth IRA is done months later when you (or your accountant) fill out your IRS Form 8606 on your taxes. Don't forget to do it or there is a $50 penalty. Remember that you need one form for each spouse: INDIVIDUAL Retirement Arrangements. You need to double-check this to make sure it is done right, even if you hire a pro to avoid screwing up this part. Advisors have told me that they have had to help clients fix dozens of these that tax preparers have done improperly. If you don't do it right, you'll pay taxes twice on your Backdoor Roth IRA contribution.
Page 1 (below) shows a “distribution” from your non-deductible IRA. Since the money was already taxed, the taxable amount on your distribution is zero. Line 1 is your non-deductible contribution. On Line 2, your basis is zero because you had no money in a traditional IRA on December 31 of last year (if you've been carrying a non-deductible IRA for years, this may not be zero). Line 6 is zero in a typical year. Note that TurboTax may fill this out a little differently (may leave lines 6-12 blank), but you end up with the same thing. Line 13 is the same as line 3, so the tax due is zero.
Here's an example from the 2023 version of Form 8606.
On page 2 (below), you are showing the Roth conversion. I'm not really sure why you have to do this twice (since you're just transferring the amounts from lines 8 and 11 and then subtracting them), but that's what the form calls for. As you can see, a Roth conversion of a non-deductible traditional IRA contribution without any gains is a taxable event; it's just that the tax bill is zero for it.
When double-checking your tax preparer's work, you want to concentrate on lines 2, 14, 15c, and 18, and make sure they're a very small amount, like zero, and not a very large amount, like $7,000. The form can get more complicated if you are doing other Roth conversions at the same time or if you made a contribution for the previous year (i.e., made your 2022 contribution in 2023). See below for more details.
Notice how there is no place on the form to put the date when you made the contribution or the date when you made the conversion. It isn't on the form your IRA custodian sends to the IRS (1099-R) either.
Do It All Again Next Year
You do not have to wait any period of time between the contribution and conversion. Each year, I make my Traditional IRA contribution on January 2, then convert it to a Roth IRA the next day or within a few days. That gets my investment money working as soon as possible and simplifies the record keeping. Vanguard won’t let you do it the same day (sometimes other providers will), so I have to wait one day anyway. Occasionally they'll make you wait up to a week. If you find you have a few pennies left in the account and are worried you'll get pro-rated, take a look at this post: Pennies and the Backdoor Roth IRA.
More information here:
How to Do a Backdoor Roth IRA with Vanguard
How to Do a Backdoor Roth IRA at Fidelity
How to Fix and Prevent Backdoor Roth IRA Mistakes
In this section, we're going to talk about how to fix and prevent common mistakes in the Backdoor Roth IRA process. To better organize these mistakes, we will break down the process into the six very clear steps used above and then will explain possible errors with each step and what to do about them.
6 Steps to Successfully Contribute to a Backdoor Roth IRA
- Step 1 – Contribute to traditional IRA ($7,000, $8,000 if 50+ for 2024).
- Step 2 – Invest the money in a money market fund.
- Step 3 – Move money from a Traditional IRA to a Roth IRA (i.e., a Roth conversion).
- Step 4 – Invest in your preferred investment (typically a stock, bond, or balanced index mutual fund).
- Step 5 – Ensure you have no money in a traditional IRA, SEP-IRA, or SIMPLE IRA on December 31 of the year you do the CONVERSION step.
- Step 6 – Report the transactions correctly on your taxes by filling out Form 8606.
Seriously. That's it. If you can do a cholecystectomy, you can do this. If you can work up a pulmonary embolus appropriately, you can do this. If you can manage hypertension well, you can do this. If you can fill a cavity, you can do this. Super easy.
However, people still manage to screw up on EACH of those six steps. Let's go through the mistakes people make, step by step.
How to Fix Backdoor Roth IRA Mistakes
Step 1 Error – Contributing Directly to a Roth IRA
An error that commonly occurs with a first Backdoor Roth IRA is that people simply don't realize that their income is too high to make a direct Roth IRA contribution. Instead of doing it indirectly (i.e., going through the Backdoor), which is no big deal even if you're under the limit, they contribute directly to a Roth IRA. Then they realize their Modified Adjusted Gross Income (MAGI) is over $146,000-$161,000 ($230,000-$240,000 Married Filing Jointly) for 2024. Now what?
Enter the Recharacterization
If you have made this error, now you have to recharacterize the Roth IRA contribution to a traditional IRA contribution. This basically makes it as though you never contributed to a Roth IRA but contributed to a traditional IRA instead. You usually have to call your IRA provider to get this done, but it's no big deal. In this section, I'll walk you through the details of how to do it.
You have until the due date of your tax return to do this (including extensions). So, if you made an IRA contribution in January of 2023 for the 2023 tax year, you have until October 15, 2024, to do a recharacterization. There's no penalty or anything to do it. You can do the opposite as well if you contributed to a traditional IRA but meant to contribute directly to a Roth IRA.
Bear in mind that starting in 2018, you can no longer do recharacterizations of Roth CONVERSIONS (not contributions). This eliminated the “Roth IRA Conversion Horserace” technique for tax reduction.
Until only a couple of years ago, I had thought there was a waiting period after a recharacterization to then reconvert the money to a Roth IRA. However, that rule was only for recharacterizations of conversions, not contributions. There has never been a waiting period for a recharacterization.
Any gains that occur before the final conversion are, of course, fully taxable at your ordinary income tax rate in the year of the final conversion.
The Income Limit
The first thing to determine is whether this post even applies to you. If your income is below a certain amount, you can just contribute directly to a Roth IRA. That amount depends on several things. First, it is a MODIFIED Adjusted Gross Income (MAGI). That number is very similar to your Adjusted Gross Income (AGI). Remember how tax Form 1040 works.
The first income line you come to is line 7b, your “Total Income.” When people think about income, this is generally what they think of. The third income line on the form is line 11b. This is your “Taxable Income.” This is what your tax bill is actually calculated from. It is basically your total income minus all of your deductions. In between those two, on line 8b, is another income, your “Adjusted Gross Income.” This is “the line” that people are talking about when they use the phrases “above-the-line deduction” and “below-the-line deduction.” If it comes out before your AGI is calculated, it is an above-the-line deduction. These are deductions such as self-employment tax, self-employed retirement plans, self-employed health insurance premiums, HSA contributions, student loan interest, alimony, tuition, and any IRA deductions. If it comes out after your AGI is calculated, it is a below-the-line deduction. These are EITHER your standard deduction OR your itemized deductions, like mortgage interest, state/local/property taxes, and charitable contributions. A MAGI is just a slight tweak to your AGI.
Below are the MAGI limits for direct Roth IRA contributions [2024]. If your MAGI is below the first number, you can just contribute to a Roth IRA directly. If your MAGI is over the second number, you cannot contribute at all. If your MAGI is between the two numbers, you can make a partial direct contribution (most shouldn't bother with this, just do it all through the Backdoor).
- Married Filing Separately (and lived with spouse for at least part of the year): $0-$10,000
- Married Filing Jointly: $230,000-$240,000
- Single or Head of Household: $146,000-$161,000
If you think you'll be anywhere close to that first number, do yourself a favor and just make your Roth IRA contribution indirectly, i.e., through the Backdoor (contribute to a traditional IRA and then convert that contribution to a Roth IRA). Since 2010, there has been no income limit on Roth conversions and there has never been an income limit on traditional IRA contributions, just your ability to deduct them.
How does a MAGI differ from an AGI? It's a very slight difference. Bear in mind that there are other MAGIs out there. We're only talking about the one that affects Roth IRA contributions here. But to get your MAGI, you simply take your AGI, subtract some income from it, and add back in some other income to it. The worksheet showing you how to do this is Worksheet 2-1 in Publication 590.
Basically, you subtract income from a Roth conversion and you add income from IRA deductions (not sure why you'd have this), student loan interest (if you are using this worksheet, you probably don't have this), tuition deduction (you probably don't have this), a couple of rare deductions for foreign income/deductions (you probably don't have these), some savings bond interest you probably don't have much of, and some employer-provided adoption benefits. For most people, your MAGI = your AGI since all of these deductions are pretty rare for the folks worried about this limit for direct Roth IRA contributions. So, focus on your AGI. That means if you contributed directly to a Roth IRA but late in the year realized you probably should not have, one easy fix is to get your AGI below that limit by contributing to an HSA or a self-employed retirement plan like an individual 401(k) or SEP-IRA. Note that giving a bunch of money to charity is NOT a solution to this problem because that is a below-the-line deduction.
How to Do an IRA Recharacterization
If you can't get your MAGI low enough, you will have to do an IRA recharacterization. As far as the IRS is concerned, a recharacterization is as though you never made the Roth IRA contribution at all but made a traditional IRA contribution instead. You don't report a recharacterization separately; you just report a traditional IRA contribution. Keep in mind as you read on the internet about recharacterizations that there used to be two types of them—a recharacterization of a Roth IRA CONTRIBUTION and a recharacterization of a Roth IRA CONVERSION. The second type was outlawed in 2018, but the first one, the one we're talking about today, is still perfectly legal. If you decide you want to undo a Roth conversion these days, you're simply out of luck. Here is how you do a recharacterization of a Roth IRA contribution:
- You tell Vanguard (or wherever your IRAs are) to recharacterize the Roth IRA contribution to a Traditional IRA contribution.
Yup. That's it. The brokerage takes care of the rest. You can read all about all of the rules in Publication 590 Chapter 1 if you want, but that's basically what they say. Don't believe me? Fine. Here are the IRS instructions:
How Do You Recharacterize a Contribution?
To recharacterize a contribution, you must notify both the trustee of the first IRA (the one to which the contribution was actually made) and the trustee of the second IRA (the one to which the contribution is being moved) that you have elected to treat the contribution as having been made to the second IRA rather than the first. You must make the notifications by the date of the transfer. Only one notification is required if both IRAs are maintained by the same trustee. The notification(s) must include all of the following information:
- The type and amount of the contribution to the first IRA that is to be recharacterized.
- The date on which the contribution was made to the first IRA and the year for which it was made.
- A direction to the trustee of the first IRA to transfer in a trustee-to-trustee transfer the amount of the contribution and any net income (or loss) allocable to the contribution to the trustee of the second IRA.
- The name of the trustee of the first IRA and the name of the trustee of the second IRA.
- Any additional information needed to make the transfer.
In most cases, the net income you must transfer is determined by your IRA trustee or custodian.
See what I mean? It's just a phone call. Any earnings that the account had in between the contribution and the recharacterization just go over with the contribution. No big deal.
You have until your tax filing date to do this. Most of the time, that's April 15 of the next year. However, the IRS is even more lenient than that. You actually can do this for an extra six months after your tax filing date, but you will have to refile your return.
Where Do You Report a Recharacterization?
If you hire somebody else to prepare your taxes, you can skip this section. If you do it yourself, you'll need to make sure you report this correctly. According to Pub 590, you report it on our old friend Form 8606.
Pub 590 says this:
Actually, that's really misleading. If you read Form 8606, you will see that the only time it ever mentions a recharacterization is to tell you NOT to put it on the form.
So, what is Pub 590 talking about? They're talking about this section in the 8606 instructions:
Reporting recharacterizations.
Treat any recharacterized IRA contribution as though the amount of the contribution was originally contributed to the second IRA, not the first IRA. For the recharacterization, you must transfer the amount of the original contribution plus any related earnings or less any related loss. In most cases, your IRA trustee or custodian figures the amount of the related earnings you must transfer. If you need to figure the related earnings, see How Do You Recharacterize a Contribution? in chapter 1 of Pub. 590-A. Treat any earnings or loss that occurred in the first IRA as having occurred in the second IRA. You can’t deduct any loss that occurred while the funds were in the first IRA . . . Report the nondeductible traditional IRA portion of the recharacterized contribution, if any, on Form 8606, Part I. Don’t report the Roth IRA contribution (whether or not you recharacterized all or part of it) on Form 8606. Attach a statement to your return explaining the recharacterization. If the recharacterization occurred in 2023, include the amount transferred from the traditional IRA on 2023 Form 1040, 1040-SR, or 1040-NR, line 4a. If the recharacterization occurred in 2024, report the amount transferred only in the attached statement, and not on your 2023 or 2024 tax return.
The bottom line is that you just report this recharacterized contribution on Form 8606 as if it were the regular old non-deductible traditional IRA contribution that you should have made in the first place. You also need to include a statement. What should your statement look like? I would write something like this:
“To whom it may concern:
I made a 2024 Roth IRA contribution of $7,000 on March 13, 2024, because I didn't know about the whole MAGI limit thing when I made the contribution. After becoming smarter, I recharacterized $7,137.14 (original contribution plus earnings) to a traditional IRA on November 4, 2024. Thank you for helping our country fund its government. You're the best.
Hugs and kisses from your favorite taxpayer,
James Dahle”
Seriously, it doesn't say what has to be on the statement, just that there is one “explaining the recharacterization.” You don't even have to tell them why you did the recharacterization. If you had a loss in the account between contribution and recharacterization, no big deal. It's still as though you made a $7,000 contribution to a traditional IRA and THEN it lost money. If you were able to deduct the contribution (you probably can't) you would get a $7,000 deduction. The IRA provider may also send you a Form 5498 (which has the recharacterized amount on line 4), but you don't actually do anything with it when you file your taxes. It's just an informational return.
Reconverting the IRA
Here is where it gets interesting. You've now fixed your mistake in the eyes of the IRS, going from an illegal Roth IRA contribution to a legal traditional IRA contribution (that is probably not deductible for you). But you aren't done with what you meant to do, which is put money into a Roth IRA. You now need to do a Roth conversion. You do it just like you normally would as if you had contributed originally to the Traditional IRA. You can do it the very next day if you like. You can probably even do it the same day; just make sure there is a paper trail showing the money was actually in the traditional IRA at some point. There used to be a waiting period after a recharacterization before you could do a Roth conversion on that money. But that waiting period only ever applied to the recharacterization of a Roth CONVERSION (which was no longer allowed starting in 2018) and NOT the recharacterization of a Roth CONTRIBUTION. So, there is no waiting period. Just reconvert convert it and go on your merry way.
I hope this information helps you fix your mistake. Just do your Roth IRA contributions through the Backdoor going forward, and you won't have this problem again.
Step 2 Error – Not Investing in a Money Market Fund in the Traditional IRA
What happens if you LOSE money in between the contribution and conversion step? This problem is easily avoided by using an investment like a money market fund that does not go down in value for that time period. But some people fail to do so and end up losing money. When they work their way through their IRS Form 8606, they discover they have basis left over that they can then carry forward indefinitely for years! No big deal; it just makes your paperwork more complicated. Perhaps at some point in the future, you'll do a Roth conversion of tax-deferred money and this carry-forward basis will reduce the tax on that event.
What if you MADE money in the account between contribution and conversion? This actually happens most of the time, so I wrote an entire post on it called Pennies and the Backdoor Roth IRA. Technically, any money earned between the contribution and conversion step is fully taxable at ordinary income tax rates in the year of the conversion. If it is less than 50 cents, you just ignore it. If it's more, you report it on your 8606 and pay taxes on it.
If it is still in the traditional IRA, either do another tiny Roth conversion or leave it there until you do next year's Backdoor Roth IRA process. Either is fine. If you were smart and just used a money market fund and did the conversion as soon as your IRA provider allowed it (usually less than a week and sometimes as early as the next day), this won't be much money and there won't be much tax due.
Step 3 Error – Forgetting to Do the Conversion
If you forgot to do the conversion step for eight months afterward, it could be a huge gain on which you're unnecessarily paying taxes. No way to fix this one, just pay your “stupid tax” and move on.
Step 4 Error – Forgetting to Invest the Roth IRA Money
Even worse than paying taxes on a huge gain is not getting the gain in the first place because you left the money sitting in cash for months. No way to fix this one either. Your “stupid tax” this time comes in the form of opportunity cost. Just get the money invested ASAP to stop the cash drag. Maybe you even got lucky and the market went down in between contribution and investment so now you get to buy low.
Step 5 Error – The Pro-Rata Rule
Some of the most common questions I get are from people who make a late contribution to a Backdoor Roth IRA. What do I mean by late? You are allowed to make an IRA contribution AFTER the calendar year ends. In fact, you have until Tax Day, usually April 15 unless you get an extension of up to six months. While it is to your advantage to contribute to retirement accounts as quickly as possible so that money can start compounding in a tax-protected way, I understand that we all have lots of good things to do with our money and sometimes this gets pushed back into the next calendar year. All it really does is complicate your paperwork a bit.
For example: if you made your 2023 IRA contribution in April 2024, instead of reporting both the contribution and the conversion on your 2023 taxes, you would report only the contribution there. The conversion would be reported on the taxes for the year you did the conversion, i.e., your 2024 tax return due in April 2025. Your 2023 IRS Form 8606 becomes a little simpler and your 2024 IRS Form 8606 becomes a little more complicated. Not a big deal if you can follow the simple instructions.
What confuses people, however, is the pro-rata rule. This is the rule that says you need to empty your traditional IRA by December 31 of the year you do the conversion. Since these folks have never filled out a Form 8606 (or apparently read the instructions), they assume that for a 2023 contribution they need to have a balance of $0 at the end of 2023, even if they didn't do the conversion step until 2024. That's simply not the case. The pro-rata rule isn't applied until the year of the conversion, i.e., December 31, 2024.
Emptying the IRAs
How do you empty those IRAs? You usually have two choices.
- Do a Roth conversion of the whole thing. This is what I generally recommend for small IRAs where the tax bill on the conversion would not be too onerous. It is quick and easy, and it increases the amount of tax-free assets you have.
- Roll the money into a 401(k) or 403(b), either that of your current employer, that of a past employer, or to your own individual 401(k) if you are self-employed. This is usually a better option if you have a large IRA where you would rather deal with the hassle than pay the tax bill during your peak earnings years.
How large is large and how small is small? It's going to vary by the person and how much disposable cash they have. Most would consider an IRA under $10,000 to be small and an IRA over $100,000 to be large. In between, it's a personal decision as to which would be better for you.
What If You Didn't Empty the IRA?
What if you screwed this one up? Your Backdoor Roth IRA conversion step just got pro-rata'd. There is a tax bill associated with that because most of your conversion was of tax-deferred money rather than post-tax money like it was supposed to be.
The fix for this is going to vary by the individual, but the easiest fix is to simply convert the entire IRA to a Roth IRA now, so you end up getting all your post-tax money into that Roth IRA. Another possible fix is to figure out a way to separate your basis in that IRA, roll the tax-deferred money into a 401(k), and then convert the basis left behind in the IRA.
Do yourself a favor and just empty the darn IRA by December 31. Keep in mind that this is usually not an instantaneous process, so don't put it off until you're on holiday break at the end of the year.
Step 6 Error – Screwing Up the Tax Forms
Both individual taxpayers and professional tax preparers screw up IRS Form 8606 all the time. In fact, some of them haven't even heard of a Backdoor Roth IRA. (Incidentally, this is one of the best questions to ask while interviewing a potential tax professional—”How many Backdoor Roth IRAs did you help last year?”)
The usual fix to this error is to file a 1040X (Amended Tax Return) and a new Form 8606. You can do this for the last three years if necessary. If you didn't file Form 8606 at all, you'll definitely want to do this. The key is to check lines 15c and 18 on Form 8606. They should both be a number very close to zero if the form is being completed correctly.
The tax preparer should NOT be filing Form 5439. If you did Steps 1-5 right, this form probably doesn't belong in your tax return.
A lot of people wonder about the 1099-R sent to them by their IRA provider and worry that it was done wrong and that it will cause them to pay taxes they shouldn't have to pay. Sometimes the form was filled out wrong, but mostly this is just a lot of anxiety. What gets people anxious is finding something on Line 2a “Taxable amount.” As long as the box on Line 2b is also checked “Taxable amount not determined,” you're golden. Don't worry about it. If it is not, have the IRA provider send you a new, correct form—either with $0 in 2a or the box in 2b checked (usually the latter). Here's what mine from a few years back looked like from Vanguard:
Note that Box 2b is checked, even though a taxable amount of $5,500.07 is being reported to the IRS.
Again, if you're not sure how to enter this into TurboTax, check out my TurboTax tutorial.
Still Confused About the Backdoor Roth?
Need more help with a Backdoor Roth IRA? I wish Congress would just lift the rule against direct Roth IRA contributions for high earners and save us all this hassle, but who knows if that will ever happen.
- If you made your contribution after the end of the year, check out Late Contributions to the Backdoor Roth IRA.
- Here's a step-by-step tutorial for doing a Backdoor Roth IRA at Vanguard.
- Here's a step-by-step tutorial for doing a Backdoor Roth IRA at Fidelity.
- Here is a step-by-step tutorial reporting the Backdoor Roth IRA in TurboTax.
- Here is my prior post on 17 Ways to Screw Up Your Backdoor Roth IRA.
- You can hire a professional to help you—either a good financial advisor or a good tax strategist can assist.
- You can also ask your peers for help on the WCI Forum, the Private WCI Facebook Group, and the WCI Subreddit.
Late Contributions to the Backdoor Roth IRA
While it is “cleaner” to make your contribution and your conversion all in the same calendar tax year, you can make your contribution up until your tax filing date of the next year. The key to filling out the 8606 correctly when you make a contribution after the calendar year is to recognize that the contribution step is reported for the tax year and the conversion step is reported for the calendar year. So imagine you did the following during the calendar year 2023:
- Made a 2022 IRA contribution (reported on 2022 8606)
- Did a Roth conversion of that contribution (reported on 2023 8606)
- Made a 2023 IRA contribution (reported on 2023 8606)
- Did a Roth conversion of that contribution (reported on 2023 8606)
Your forms would look like this:
2022 Form 8606 (Only Have to Fill Out Part I)
Note that all this serves to do is report basis for the next year. No tax is due. Since no conversion step was done during the calendar year 2022, you only have to fill out lines 1-3 and 14.
2023 Form 8606 (Must Fill Out Parts I and II)
Note that you've got to do all of Part I plus Part II for this year because you did the conversion step, unlike last year (2022). Let's go through this line by line.
Form 8606 – Part I
- Line 1 – That's the money you contributed for 2023 (which would be $6,500).
- Line 2 – This is your basis. Since you made a contribution for 2022 but didn't do a conversion until 2023, your basis is $6,000.
- Line 3 – $6,500 + $6,000 = $12,500.
- Line 4 – Remember this is asking about 2024, not 2023, and since you won't make the mistake of doing your contribution late again, this will be zero.
- Line 5 – $12,500 – $0 = $12,500.
- Line 6 – This is the line that triggers the pro-rata issue. Even though you made a 2022 contribution, you did so AFTER December 31, so this line would still be zero if you filled it out for 2022, which you didn't because you didn't do a conversion in 2022 and got to skip lines 4-13. But this is the 2023 form and since you converted your entire traditional IRA, this will be $0.
- Line 7 – This doesn't include conversions. Since you didn't take any money out of your traditional IRA this year except the conversion, this is $0.
- Line 8 – You converted a total of $12,500 this year to a Roth IRA, so $12,500.
- Line 9 – $0 + $0 + $12,500 = $12,500.
- Line 10 – $12,500/$12,500 = 1.
- Line 11 – $12,500 * 1 = $12,500.
- Line 12 – $0 * 1 = $0.
- Line 13 – $12,500 + $0 = $12,500.
- Line 14 – $12,500 – $12,500 = $0.
- Line 15a – $0 – $0 = $0.
- Line 15b – You didn't take money out of an IRA to help you survive a disaster, so $0.
- Line 15c – $0 – $0 = $0.
Part II
- Line 16 – Line 8 is $12,500 so $12,500.
- Line 17 – Line 11 is $12,500 so $12,500.
- Line 18 – $12,500 – $12,500 = $0.
Backdoor Roth IRA FAQs
Can I still do a Backdoor Roth IRA for last year?
You have until tax day (generally April 15, but as late as October 15 if you file an extension) of the following year to make your traditional IRA contribution. There is no deadline for the Roth conversion step; it can be done at anytime. Make sure you fill out the paperwork properly according to the section above about late contributions.
Can I do last year's IRA contribution and this year's IRA contribution at the same time and convert them at the same time?
Yes. Just remember to report last year's contribution on last year's Form 8606 and this year's contribution and the conversion on this year's Form 8606.
Does my 401(k), 403(b), 457(b), Roth IRA, or inherited IRA count toward the pro-rata calculation?
No. Only traditional IRAs, rollover IRAs, SEP-IRAs, and SIMPLE IRAs count. See line 6 of Form 8606 for details.
What if it is a separate IRA? Does it still count?
Yes. All IRAs count toward the pro-rata calculation.
What should I do with my rollover or traditional IRA to avoid pro-ration?
If it is small, convert it to a Roth IRA along with this year's traditional IRA contribution and pay the tax due on it. If large, try to roll it into your employer's 401(k) or if you have self-employment income, into your individual 401(k).
I got pro-rated. What now?
The easiest solution is to convert the entire IRA, SEP-IRA, or SIMPLE IRA that caused the pro-ration and is now composed of both pre-tax and after-tax money. That is also the most expensive solution. A harder solution that may save you some taxes involves isolating the basis in that IRA by rolling the rest of the account into a 401(k) and then convert just the basis to a Roth IRA.
I am leaving my employer. Should I roll my 401(k) or 403(b) into a traditional IRA? If not, what should I do with it?
If you put it into a traditional IRA it is going to cause any future Backdoor Roths to be pro-rated. Better options include leaving it where it is; rolling it into your new employer's 401(k) or 403(b); rolling it into your individual 401(k); or, if it is small, just converting the whole thing to a Roth IRA.
How much can I contribute to a Roth IRA via the Backdoor Roth IRA process?
In 2024, you are allowed to contribute $7,000 ($8,000 if 50+) per year for you and $7,000 ($8,000 if 50+) for your spouse. This includes all contributions to traditional and Roth IRAs. Rollovers/transfers do not count toward the annual contribution limit.
What should I invest the money into?
While in the traditional IRA for a day or two, leave it in cash. Once it is in the Roth IRA, invest it according to your written investing plan. If you don't have one, get one, but in the meantime it would be a good idea to put it into a lifecycle fund such as a Vanguard Target Retirement Fund.
Can I use the same traditional and Roth IRA each year or do I need new ones?
You can use the same ones each year.
The Backdoor Roth IRA process leads to more tax-free retirement account money for doctors and other high-income professionals. If you follow the simple steps outlined above, you will pay less in taxes, boost your returns, facilitate your estate planning, and increase your asset protection. Most members of The White Coat Investor community do these every year, and you should too.
What do you think? Are you doing Backdoor Roth IRAs? Why or why not? Any questions about it?
[This updated post was originally published in 2014.]
Dear Sir, I just want to make sure I’m completing the 8606 form correctly. In 2014, I contributed $5,500 to a traditional IRA for 2013 and converted it to a Roth IRA rightaway. In 2014, I also contributed another $5,500 to a traditional IRA for 2014 and converted it to a Roth. I followed the easy way in 2014 and plan to stick with it. But,Here’s what the 8606 should look for the year 2013 and 2014: Can you kindly verify if it looks right? I didn’t report in 2013 and plan to file it along with my 2014 taxes.
2013 Part I:
—————–
Line 1: $5,500
Line 2: $0
Line 3: $5,500
Line 4: $5,500
Line 5: $0
Line 6: 0
Line 7: 0
Line 8: $0
Line 9: $0
Line 10: 0.000
Line 11: $0
Line 12: $0
Line 13: $0
Line 14: $5,500
Line 15: $0
No Part II for 2013.
————————————————————–
2014 Part I:
Line 1: $5,500
Line 2: $5,500
Line 3: $11,500
Line 4: $0
Line 5: $11,000
Line 6: 0
Line 7: 0
Line 8: $11,000
Line 9: $11,000
Line 10: 1.000
Line 11: $11,000
Line 12: $0
Line 13: $11,000
Line 14: $0
Line 15: $0
Part II:
Line 16: $11,000
Line 17: $11,000
Line 18: 0
Does this look okay for both the years?
There’s a post coming up soon on this subject. I’m honestly a little hesitant to confirm to you that you did your taxes correctly. The most important thing to check is to make sure the tax owed is $0. If that came out right, chances are you did the rest right.
Thank you for the quick response. I haven’t done the taxes yet and so, there is opportunity to fix things if needed. Since, The 2013 non-deductible contribution wasn’t reported for the year 2013, I plan to send it along with my 2014 returns. Additionally, I just made sure the basis got forwarded to the 2014 – 8606. So, the 2013- 8606 would just report the contribution (no Part II). The 2014-8606 would report the 2014 contribution and the total (2013 and 2014) conversion and the Part II, line 18 would show $0 with no tax owed.
Does it seem logical?
Yes.
Dear WCI,
Thank you for the awesome blog and great information on ROTH-IRA. I may have jumped the gun on the backdoor by missing on a key point and can use your help in understanding a few things.
I missed the point that 401K can reduce MAGI, I added our 401K accounts back to AGI and miscalculated the ROTH-IRA MAGI limits. But we may be in the ROTH-IRA MAGI limit situation in 2015 as our work 401K might phase us out of 401K based on high compensation situation. So I think I was a year or two ahead in using the backdoor strategy.
My Wife contributed 5500 to a Merrill Edge T-IRA account and then converted to a ROTH-IRA.We used Merrill Edge due to our other account relationships.
The Traditional IRA was funded with after-tax money but Merrill Edge did not let us take out the whole amount so we left $50 in the T-IRA and moved 5450 to ROTH-IRA. Does this balance of $50 in a T-IRA pose any issues?
I did not contribute to the T-IRA to backdoor to ROTH as I have some rollover IRA that I need to move into my 401K, but 2014 year’s AGI might let me contribute to ROTH-IRA directly. Am I correct in assuming that as long as the Roll-over IRA balance is zero on Dec, 31 2015 I can do a backdoor Roth contribution for 2015? ( this assumes my 401K situation at work changes and puts me over the ROTH MAGI limits)
Thanks again for your time and a great blog!
-Damon
First, I can think of no reason to keep any money at Merrill Lynch. At all. Is there something you really like about the way they do business?
Second, that $50 is going to be a hassle for you. I’d convert it with the rest of the IRA. If Merrill won’t let you do it, well, seems like as good a reason as any to leave Merrill to me.
Yes, you need to get your traditional IRA balances to zero on December 31 to do the Backdoor Roth IRA effectively.
Thanks for the quick reply. I will get the $50 out of the T-IRA or close the account.
The only positive thing I can say about Merrill Edge is that I get free trades on the accounts 🙂
Hi WCI.
I am trying to do the back door Roth IRA and I am not sure whether I messed up or not along the way but I have a feeling I did. I had no prior IRAs to get rid of. I went to the Vanguard website a week ago to open an account, which I did, but when I got to the part to set up the fund transfer, they gave me the option to contribute to both 2014 and 2015 so I maxed out both at $5500. After the fund transfer, it occurred to me that a contribution to 2014 might amount to having had a past IRA (ie,-like an IRA i should have gotten rid of). Is this a problem at all, and if so, how can I fix it? I have already opened the Roth in preparation to do the backdoor, but I wanted your advice before rolling anything over. If it is a problem, can I roll the 2014 contribution over into an individual 401K? I did have moonlighting income last year but have never set up a i401K and not sure whether I am past the deadline to do so. Please help.Your website has been a godsend! I am in my mid 40s, bought your book and passed it on to my other physician mid 40s friends who are not yet at financial peace.Looking forward to your response. Thanks.
There’s no issue. You’re fine. You just need to fill out the 2014 and 2015 8606 correctly. There’s a post coming up on it. Go ahead and do the conversion step at your leisure (but sometime during 2015.) And no, you probably can’t roll a non-deductible IRA contribution into a 401(k). You are past the deadline for opening an i401(k) for 2014, but if you’re going to continue moonlighting, certainly open one up for 2015. One thing you can do is make SEP-IRA contributions for 2014, then convert those to Roths or roll them into your i401(k) also. I did that one year.
Should I roll over the 2014 IRA contribution of $5500 to my newly opened Roth and file a form 8606 this tax season, leaving the 2015 IRA contribution of $5500 in the IRA to roll over later this year for next tax season? Or should I roll over the entire $11000 (5500×2) after/before April 15th 2015, or it makes no difference. I do not want to complicate my form 8606 so I do not mind doing two separate roll overs,one for this year and one for next year.Thanks again
It is important to be precise with your words when discussing this. The worst offender is the word “rollover.” Rollovers are actually incredibly rare. What most people do is “transfer” or “convert.” You’re using the word rollover when you mean to use the word convert/conversion.
To answer your question, at least the one I think you’ve asked, you can just convert all $11K at once. The conversion will show up on your 2015 8606 along with the 2015 contribution. The 2014 contribution will be on the 2014 8606.
Appreciate the correction. This is like a whole new language for me…with a steep learning curve!
I did a backdoor Roth IRA conversion through Vanguard 2 years ago, but even though I converted the next day, there was still a small amount of money left over that has continued to grow in the traditional IRA, so now I have both. If I want to do another roth conversion this year, do I have to take that small amount of the traditional IRA and roll it into a 401K before I do another $5500 contribution/conversion? And if I do another Roth conversion is it done to the same account or do I open a separate account each year I do it?
Why is there a small amount of money left over? When you do it this year just convert the whole thing. I use the same accounts every year at Vanguard and never leave a dime behind. Not sure why you did.
I think it’s because I picked a REIT fund for both the traditional and Roth IRA’s and I guess it went up in value in one day…I will change it to the money market fund. So when I do this year’s conversion, can I make it into my previous Roth IRA or do I open a new one with each yearly conversion?
I use the same traditional IRA and Roth IRA every year. I also put it in the money market fund for the day it sits in the traditional IRA, so no gains or losses. But even if you used a REIT fund, you can still convert 100% of the amount in the traditional IRA.
I know this reply is over a year old, but what would you recommend to do if there is money left over due to growth or weeks/months between contribution to the IRA and conversion? Would that money be taxed in the traditional IRA? It hasn’t happened to me, but if it were to happen I’d like to have a plan B.
Roll it in to the Roth and pay the taxes on the gains. I leave mine in a MMF for a day before converting to avoid that issue.
Thanks, wouldn’t that go over the 5500 allotted in the Roth for the year?
Thanks, wouldn’t that put me over the $5500 Roth limit?
Thanks, wouldn’t that put it at more than 5500 for the Roth for the year?
OK, I screwed up. In my haste, I assumed that TurboTax had filed out the 8606 correctly for backdoor Roth conversion; but alas, after reading your post on the matter it seems that I did not. I have already filed my taxes and received a return.
What is my best course of action? I realize this would be a better question for a CPA, but since I did my own taxes, I don’t have one!
For the record, I did fill out a 1040X on TurboTax and the error is neutral from a tax perspective (ie, I get no more refund but I owe nothing additional). But since form 8606 does not clearly show that the non-deductible traditional IRA was converted to a Roth I am concerned about its future.
I guess really I have 2 questions: (1) is there any harm in just sending in the 1040X and amending the return? Will this increase my audit risk? Is it even necessary? (2)Fundamentally, is a retirement account a “roth” or “traditional” based on what the investment firm calls it? Or is it based on how it’s reflected in my tax documents?
I wouldn’t expect it to increase audit risk. The retirement account documents, both from the IRA provider and from you, should match.
I converted $11,000 in early 2014 to Roth(for 2013 and 2014) . Had no IRA’s at the time. Later in year rolled over $47,000 from old 401K. This was done after Roth conversion but in same year. Since 8606 asks for 12/31/14 value of IRA’s the rollover values are included, making most of Roth IRA conversion taxable. Is this correct? Since at time of conversion, no other IRA;s were held, assumption was that none of it would be taxable.
Yes. You messed that up. If you wish to convert the rest of the $47K, it could still work out okay though. It’s not about the date of the conversion, it’s about what’s in an IRA on December 31st. Sorry! Should have waited until January 1st to do the rollover, but you’d still face the same issue for the 2015 Backdoor Roth.
I wanted to ensure that none of my random accounts were going to be counted as part of step 1) you listed above—” Get rid of any SEP-IRA, SIMPLE IRA, traditional IRA, or rollover IRA money”
random accounts:
1) 403b from my prior employer (no contributions since June 2014)
2) PSP from my wife’s prior nonprofit employer (no contribuitons since 2006)
3) new HSA for me 2014
thanks
No, none of those count. It’s only YOUR accounts, not your wive’s, and neither 403(b)s, PSPs, or HSAs count. Just SEP, SIMPLE, and traditional IRA.
Both my wife and I have trad IRA money. I can roll my back to former employer 403B (tiaa-cref) but my wife currently has no income. Is her only option to convert her IRA money to Roth and pay the taxes to be eligible for future back door contributions? Can I contribute for her each year even if she has no income?
thanks
Yes and yes.
Another question after we are going through the 8606 form. I found out my wife has about $8000 in an old work IRA. I have $300 from way back when. We want to contribute the max to each for 2014 and then roll them both over to Roth IRAs. Then we will have $0 in our IRAs for 2015 and can do it again later this year. Can we do that? Is there a problem with my wife’s or my IRA tax-wise or penalty-wise if we do what I described? Should we just convert her IRA and not contribute for 2014? It’s all very confusing especially because we didn’t do it all in 2014. Thank you in advance.
Yes, you can do that. As long as you have no traditional, SIMPLE, or SEP IRA money on December 31st, it all works fine. Your 2014 8606 and 2015 8606 will be a little complicated, but it’s no big deal.
I’d make your 2014 contributions, make your 2015 contributions, then convert everything.
Thank you.
I’m confused when you say as long as there’s no money in the IRA on 12/31. But as of 12/31/2014 my wife had $8000 and I had $300 in our respective IRAs.
We are also confused on the 8606 when it asks about the net rollover for 2014 or where it asks about values for 2014 but does not specifically say to include contributions made up to 4/15/2015. Do we include the contribution we are making now for 2014?
Thank you again.
There will be a post out soon that deals with how to do your 8606 when you make your contributions in Jan-April of the next year. Let me know if you’re still confused after seeing it.
12/31/2015, not 2014. There is a line on the 8606 where you include contributions made for the previous year in Jan-Apr of the current year.
Now you see why I recommend people do the contribution and conversion all in the current tax year! Nearly every question I get on this post these days involves someone who did their contributions in the next year for the previous year. There is a post coming up on that subject shortly which will hopefully clarify things.
Hi,
I’ve been reading through some of the comments and I’m sure this may have been addressed somewhere, but I have several questions regarding filing a tax return with the backdoor roth IRA. My husband and I are both residents, but file separately due to student loan payments and therefore make too much money to directly contribute to a Roth IRA. Last year I contributed $3000 to a roth before I knew that I could not contribute based on income, so then I converted it to a traditional and added $1000 to the traditional for a total contribution of $4000, which I later converted back to the roth. I’m afraid this may have messed up my taxes because i have two lines on my 1099-R (one with 3,000 for the Roth and the other with 4,000 for the traditional).
My other situation is that last year is the first year we contributed. So we put $4,000 each into traditional IRA and then converted them. We did not take the tax deduction on our contribution to the traditional IRA. We made this contribution in 2014, before April 15th, for the 2013 tax season. I did not fill out an 8606 last year, should I have? And should we have taken the traditional IRA tax deduction? When I go to fill out the 8606 this year it is not the same as your example because our contribution was between Jan 1-April 15th, which when you subtract line 4 from line 3 it makes the total on line 5 $0, where yours is $5500.
I’d really appreciate some help as I don’t want to end up paying taxes on our roth contribution twice.
Thank you.
Take a deep breath. This is all going to work out fine. We’re talking about 3 separate tax years and tax returns though, and it’s not clear to me exactly what you’ve done. If you’re not sure either, it may be worth hiring a tax professional to help you sort it out. You’re also not being very careful with your terms, which complicates matters as these terms have specific meanings.
As I understand your situation, you made a 2013 Roth IRA contribution in Jan-Apr of 2014 of $3000. You then recharacterized that to a traditional IRA. You then contributed another $1000 to a traditional IRA. At some point later in the year, you did a Roth conversion of $4000.
I am not certain if you are able to deduct your traditional IRA contribution as I don’t have enough information. I am also not clear why you have a 2014 1099R for a contribution that should be documented on your 2013 taxes. Perhaps it is showing the recharacterization?
The bottom line is that you just want to make sure you’re not paying taxes twice. So when you do your 8606, make sure there is no tax bill unless it is for money you have previously taken a tax deduction.
I went back and looked through our 8606 for this year and last year. Last year’s 8606 was as following:
1 – 4000
3- 4000
14- 4000
All other lines were $0.
We converted the $4k to a roth IRA in 2014, and then contributed another $5500 to traditional so will put that on this years return, but it is reporting the $4k conversion as taxable income. Lines are as following:
1- 5500
2 – 0
3 – 5500
4- 5500
5 – 0
6 – 0
7 – 0
8 – 4000
9 – 4000
10 – 0
11 – 0
12- 0
13 -0
14 – 5500
15 – 0
Part II
16 – 4000
17 – 0
18 – 4000 (saying this is taxable)
Any idea where we went wrong?
Thank you again for your help!
Why is line 17 zero? Shouldn’t it be $4000?
I’m assuming because line 11 is 0, due to the fact that line 5 (0) divided by line 9 (4000) is 0. I’m not sure how to make that not be 0, due to the fact we have contributed in 2015 for 2014.
Megan-
I should start a business- 8606s R Us.
Okay, let’s start at the beginning and we’ll try to go step by step.
2013
Line 1: Did you do the recharacterization prior to filing your 2013 taxes? If so, I’d put $4000 down here. If not, then I’d only put $1000 there and disregard anything below.
Line 2: Should be $0 prior to the 2013 tax year, right?
Line 3: Should be $4000.
4-13 skipped
14: 4000
15: 0
Part 2 not filled out
Part 3 not filled out
I agree you did the 2013 form right.
Okay, now for 2014.
Line 1: 5500
Line 2: 4000 (why is yours zero? I think this is your error.)
Line 3: $9500
Line 4: $5500 (Right?)
Line 5: $4000
Line 6: $4000 if you did your conversion in 2015, $0 if you did it in 2014.
Line 7: 0
Line 8: Did you convert your 2013 contribution in 2014 or 2015? If 2014, $4000. If 2015, $0.
Line 9: $4000 either way.
Line 10: 1
Line 11: $4000 or $0
Line 12: $0
Line 13: $4000 or $0
Line 14: $5500 or $9500
Line 15: $0
Line 16: $4000
Line 17: $4000 or $0
Line 18: $4000 or $0, hopefully $0, but I don’t have enough info to say.
Does that help?
Yes, you really should start a business, you have by far been more helpful than two of the tax consultants I talked to. I guess my only question regarding the example above is if my basis (line 2) would be considered $4000, since I had converted it to the roth IRA prior to December 31, 2014. So at the end of the year this year there was $0 sitting in my traditional IRA.
Thank you again, you have been immensely helpful!
This is the difficulty in helping you. I don’t have all the details, they’re coming out one thing at a time. You see how the exact timing of each step matters and why it is SOOOOOOOO much easier to just do the contribution and conversion all in the same year. Let’s start over and see if we can figure out the exact timing of everything.
1) When did you contribute $3K to a Roth IRA and for what year?
2) When did you contribute $1K to a traditional IRA and for what year?
3) When did you recharacterize the $3K to a traditional IRA and what was it worth at the time?
4) When did you convert the $4K to a Roth IRA and what was it worth?
5) When did you contribute the $5500 to a traditional IRA and for what year?
6) When did you convert the $5500 to a Roth IRA and what was it worth?
1. Contributed $3000 to Roth on 3/17/14, for the 2013 tax season.
2. Recharacterized the $3000 to a Traditional IRA on 3/17/14.
3. Contributed an additional $1000 to the Traditional IRA on 3/21/14 for the 2013 tax season.
4. Converted the total $4000 to Roth IRA on 5/15/14; it was worth $4000.06 at that time.
5. Contributed $5500 to the Traditional IRA on 2/9/15, for the 2014 tax season.
6. Converted the $5500 to Roth on 2/23, it was worth $5500.02.
On my taxes for 2013 I documented it as $4000 contribution to a traditional IRA. I didn’t include the roth recharacterization.
Was that $4000 contribution deductible or non-deductible or partially deductible?
We did not deduct the $4000.
Then it should be basis. I’ll try to take another look at this tomorrow.
Okay, sorry it has taken me a while to get back to this. I haven’t forgotten you. I hope you saw the recent post on the subject and hope that helped. Perhaps you’ve also gotten help elsewhere in the meantime. At any rate, let’s try this again.
2013 8606
1) 4000
2) 0
3) 4000
Skip 4-13
14) 4000
Skip 15
Skip parts II and III. Easy peasy.
2014 8606
1) 5500
2) 4000
3) 9500
4) 5500
5) 4000
6) 0
7) 0
8) 4000
9) 4000
10) 1
11) 4000
12) 0
13) 4000
14) 5500
15) 0
16) 4000
17) 4000
18) 0
Skip part III.
The recent guest post should help with your 2015 8606. Please do your 2015 contribution and conversion in 2015 to make it easy on yourself!
https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/late-contributions-to-the-backdoor-roth-ira/
we established IRA accounts at Vanguard a few months ago (Traditional and Roth IRA for me and my wife). Made the 2014 contributions last year and rolled that over to the Roth IRAs right away. I was doing the TurboTax forms earlier today per the tutorial you posted and it turns out that the $11,000 are fully deductible (despite being way above the income limit), per Turbotax due to the fact that we don’t have retirement accounts at work. I only have the IRAs and a solo-401K at Fidelity. No employer-sponsored 401k. I checked the IRS web site and it seems to confirm this.
https://www.irs.gov/Retirement-Plans/Plan-Participant,-Employee/2014-IRA-Contribution-and-Deduction-Limits-Effect-of-Modified-AGI-on-Deductible-Contributions-if-You-are-NOT-Covered-by-a-Retirement-Plan-at-Work
Turbotax still gives me the option of making the deductions non-deductible. but our tax bracket this year is pretty high (I got about 45% of the $11k back per the turbotax calculator 35% federal and 10% in state taxes). so it makes more sense to take the deduction now. unfortunately this amount has been converted already to the Roth IRAs! I did the same already for 2015. does this mean I should just keep the money in the traditional IRA starting next year to keep the deduction. I’m assuming it’s too late to take the deduction for the 2014 & 2015 contributions since they are already in the Roth accounts now?
Can you please comment on this? what should be my course of action here. I might have just cost myself about $10k in taxes by making this silly mistake.
You can still recharacterize those contributions and refile the taxes if you like. More important in the long term (as opposed to the traditional vs Roth issue on $11K)is the fact that you don’t have any other retirement accounts. Why not? If you’re self-employed, go get an individual 401(k). If you’re not self-employed, look into your employer’s plans. If they don’t offer anything, consider lobbying them to add something, making you an independent contractor or changing jobs.
Thanks for the reply. I do actually have a solo-401K as an independent contractor which I maxed out for 2014, will max it out this year as well. I also have an HSA account, maxed out. I am employed but also make additional income as an independent contractor. I picked the solo-401k over my employer’s 401k because I didn’t like their offerings, they also don’t match so I can put significantly more in the solo-401k.
Would you please elaborate more on how to recharacterize the IRA contributions. I have my IRA accounts at Vanguard. The Roth IRAs have grown since the conversion to about $11,400 each (2014 and 2015 contributions). I also haven’t filed my taxes yet so there seems to be time to do this then file my taxes?
so it does make sense to keep the deduction for this year vs. pay the taxes now? it makes sense to me given my high tax bracket but wanted to know your opinion. also is it true that not having an employer-sponsered 401k makes all traditional IRA contributions deductible, regardless of income? I just want to make sure I understood this part correctly from Turbotax/IRS web sites.
If you have a solo 401(k) (it’s an employer provided retirement account- you’re the employer) you can’t deduct a traditional IRA contribution. Just take the backdoor Roth IRA and count your blessings. You should seriously consider using both 401(k)s though as written here:
https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/multiple-401k-rules/
oh ok. now I got it. I didn’t realize that my sol-401k is technically considered employer-sponsored.
Regarding the issue of having 2 401k accounts, I did read your post a few months ago. it seems that having the employer’s 401k as well will allow me to contribute another $3600 to the solo-401k ($18000 x 20%) since I will be making that $18000 contribution in the employer’s plan and subsequently it won’t count towards my “business expenses” in the solo-401k math. any other advantages to having both? the only reason I’m still reluctant is the lower quality investment options and higher fees.
The main benefit of your employer’s 401(k) would be if using it allows you to 1) get a match and 2) have higher total 401(k) contributions. If you can max out an individual 401(k) solely off of “employer” contributions, then you can put the employee contribution plus any match into the other 401(k).
The employer doesn’t offer a match at this point. They said my be in the future but not for now.
I reviewed their 401K offerings again. There only a couple funds I would consider;
– Vanguard target retirement, expense ratio 0.43
– Vanguard REIT index, expense ratio 0.35
As you can see their expense ratios are high. the other options are even more expensive (some above 1.0!), and it’s a mix of funds by Morgan Stanley, PIMCO, Goldman Sachs, SSgA, etc.
But I guess it might still make sense to use the employer’s 401k for my $18k employee contribution, split it between the Vanguard’s REIT and target retirement funds, as it allows me to contribute more in the solo-401k (about $3600 per year) which would offset the higher expenses. makes sense?
Obviously, when the 401(k) is less than ideal, use the individual 401(k) as much as possible. The employer 401(k) seems like an okay place for your REIT allocation!
Your priorities ought to be:
1) Maximize total contributions
2) When there is a choice, prefer the individual 401(k) over the employer 401(k).
I need to do a backdoor Roth this year via Vanguard where I have a Roth IRA account. However, I have an old traditional IRA with Ameritrade – opened in 2004 for about $ 2004 that is now only worth about $100. I inquired before about rolling it over to Vanguard and Ameritrade said they would charge me $ 75 to do that so not worth it. Instead, I will be 59 1/2 on April 3, 2015 and can then cash out the Ameritrade IRA. My plan is to do that and AFTERWARDS open the new traditional IRA with Vanguard and roll it over the next day into my Roth. Is there any IRS rule that I would violate by following that plan? Is it a problem that the Ameritrade IRA still existed had about $ 100 in it as of Dec. 31, 2014? Will I need to file two 8606 forms for 2015 – one for the Ameritrade and one for the Vanguard? Since the forms do not show the dates of the IRAS, it won’t show that I closed the Ameritrade IRA on April 4, 2015 and thus had no active traditional IRA on the day I open the Vanguard traditional IRA. Will this create IRS problems for me and, if so, how do I avoid that? fyi -even though I will show some income in 2015 from the Ameritrade IRA, I will actually realize a loss since the value dropped over the years. Please let me know my best options if the plan I described above is not allowed by the IRS — and what the IRS consequences would be if I impermissably follow this plan. Thanks!
I hope you mean $200 not $2004. Still pretty crappy for an 11 year investment. Your 8606 will be interesting because you will have to reflect that $100. 8606 is not about the dates you do stuff….it’s about what you have on December 31. It’s all allowed. It’s just messy.
After reading your article I had questions about my Roth IRA conversion in 2012/13. Could you please help me with my situation? In 2012 I had a SEP IRA(my only IRA) account and in Feb 2013 I rolled it over to a solo401K. After that in March 2013 I contributed $5000 as non-deductible IRA, for Year 2012. Then converted this to Roth IRA before April 2013. Would this be okay since before I made the non-deductible IRA contribution the SEP IRA was already rolled over to 401K(even if it was after Dec 31, 2012)? I’d truly appreciate your advice.
Should be fine. On Dec 31 2012 you had a non-deductible IRA and a SEP IRA. On Dec 31 2013 you had a Roth IRA and a solo 401(k). Your 8606s just needed to reflect that. What’s your question?
Thank you so much for your quick reply! The situation is that I converted the 2012 $5000 non-deductible IRA to Roth without doing the “pro-rata” calculation. The reason was that I rolled over the SEP IRA to solo401K first in Feb 2013. Then (in March 2013) contributed non-deductible IRA for 2012. The order of the events were:
2012: had SEP IRA
2013 Feb: Rolled SEP IRA to solo401K
2013 Mar: Contributed non-deductible IRA $5000 for Year 2012 (at this time I didn’t have any other IRAs)
So in this case should I go through the “pro-rata” calculation for the $5000 conversion to Roth? If so, should I amend the 8606 form to correct this? Again I appreciate your advice.
The pro-rata calculation isn’t done if you didn’t do a conversion. No conversion in 2012, so no calculation. At the end of 2013, you had nothing in traditional or SEP-IRAs. So again, no pro-rata calculation.
Thank you very much for your explanation, which is truly insightful. Since I did 2012 and 2013 contribution and conversion in 2013, in my 8606 form I have the amount converted to Roth IRA(#8) and the Nontaxable portion of amount I converted to Roth IRA(#11) as $10500 for both. Due to the special situation for this year(contributed to the previous year as well) the amount was different than the forms I had in other years but I think this should be okay. Thank you again for your time. I do appreciate it.
You said that 401K’s don’t fall under the pro rata rule. What if you retire from your employer and take a full distribution from your 401K in December of Year 1, but don’t convert to a Traditional IRA until January of Year 2? Can you set up the back door Roth before the end of Year 1 without running afoul of the back door rule? In other words, is an “outstanding rollover” of a 401K distribution also exempt from the rule?
Wow! You guys come up with so many situations I’ve never thought of before. I think you’re okay because the money wasn’t in a traditional IRA on December 31. That’s what the form asks for.
Thanks! That’s how I interpreted it as well. Good to have a second opinion.
Still a bit confused here.
My wife has a 401k, but I still have a traditional IRA and 401k. I won’t be able to roll over my traditional IRA into my 401k for a couple more months.
Should I still put $5500 into an traditional IRA and then convert it to a roth? I’ve already maxed out my other tax deferred accounts. I think I understand that that the $5500 will be subject to taxes, but at least it will grow tax free. (35% tax bracket)
A couple of months? No big deal. As long as you can get the tax-deferred money out of there by year end I’d do a 2014 and a 2015 contribution anticipating a backdoor Roth.
Financial novice. First time poster. Thank you for an amazing site & blog.
Background:
-Me: New employed doc, 3 accounts: current 401K for new job, 414h from training that I haven’t yelled rolled over or converted
-Wife: Unemployed, several accounts (mostly small from previous jobs) including: 2 rollover tIRA’s and 1 rollover rIRA (all with no contributions since r/o), a 403b not r/o’d yet, 1 each of independently started tIRA and rIRA with no recent contributions
Questions
-Are our abilities to do a backdoor Roth considered separately? I believe this was covered above, but just wanted to confirm. In other words, if I roll my 414h into my current 401K (if possible, they’re looking into it as this is an unusual plan type), can I make backdoor Roth contributions/conversions regardless of what we do with my wife’s accounts without pro-rate implications? What do you think I should do with this account if I am unable to roll this 414h into my current 401K?
-What do you see as my options with my wife’s many accounts regarding backdoor Roth options or in general?
Thank you very much.
I learned something new today- a 414h. More details here: https://retire.ameritas.com/Plans/039284 but it sounds like a 401(a).
Yes, they’re considered separately. So yes, you can do conversions separately.
If you can’t roll the 414(h) directly into your 401(k) you can put it in an IRA and then roll it into a 401(k). Surely they accept those direct transfers, no?
Two options- transfer the money into her 403(b0 or, especially if they’re all pretty small, just convert them all.
I think I screwed up.
I came across your wonderful site, and ended up buying your book. But I think I screwed up the backdoor Roth.
Last year in 2014, I started the backdoor Roth, one for 2013, and another for 2014. I put in $11,000 in traditional IRA, and rolled it over to Roth, before April 15th.
The problem was that there was this 0.02$ in the traditional IRA that was interest earned in the money market for those few days it was stitting in the Traditional IRA.
Screw ups:
1. Being the novice that I am, the two cents stayed in the traditional IRA account all year and beginning this year…
2. I didn’t do the 8086 form yet for last year tax return (2013 tax return filed in 2014). Can I do it for 2013, 2014, and 2015 for this tax season? Which year do I need to file? I’m so confused about this..
3. I think I did direct $5,500 deposit to my Roth instead of to traditional IRA then roll. I’m hopeless. Now what should I do you think?
Thank you for any advice. I’m not sure if I’ve lost on any benefit of backdoor Roth by above screw-ups.
OK, so I just fixed the 3rd screw up. I just re-characterized the 2015 Roth to traditional IRA. Once that posts in a couple of days, I’ll do the proper conversion. I just have to report that characterization for next year taxes (2015).
But I still have to deal with issue 1 and 2.
Wait more than a couple of days. I’d have to go reread the rules, but I think you have to wait 30-60 days before reconverting.
1. No big deal. Just round down. Who puts cents on their tax return?
2. What’s an 8086? You mean an 8606? Sounds like you need to do a 1040X and include an 8606 in it for 2013. You don’t do 2015 taxes until next year and you still have time to fix 2014.
3. You need to do a recharacterization STAT. Then wait a couple of months and reconvert.
Did you read the recent thread on Bogleheads on form 8606? Looks like a lot of the tax software programs are using an IRA Distribution worksheet (590-B). As a result, lines 6-12 are blank on the 8606 form. That’s how mine turned out doing a clean backdoor roth conversion for 2014.
https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=162853&newpost=2446586
I don’t think it matters in the end, but worth noting.
Thank you for the link. I have to re-read it again to understand it. I’ll also ask my tax guy.
Am I too late to do the 8086 for 2013 contribution? Since I started backdoor Roth last year, I was told I can do 2013 and 2014. But I didn’t do any 8086 last year for 2013. The tax person at the time said I didn’t need too…
Regardless, I appreciate any advice
Sounds like you need a new tax guy to me. You also probably should do a 1040X and include a 2013 8606.
True!! I’m going with a different tax guy this year.
Thank you re 1040X and 2013 8606, will do.
Will having those few cents in my tradition IRA mess us with having the backdoor Roth? I was under the impression that I should have a zero balance on traditional IRA…
Best regards.
You should have a zero balance. 2 cents is the same as a zero balance since you report it as $0.
Fantastic! Thanks again