By Dr. Jim Dahle, WCI Founder
Setting up a Backdoor Roth IRA can be confusing, so I thought I’d put together a tutorial on the steps people can refer to when they go through this process. Let's get started.
Table of Contents
- What Is a Backdoor Roth IRA?
- Who Should Do a Backdoor Roth IRA?
- When to Do a Backdoor Roth IRA?
- Backdoor Roth IRA Pros and Cons
- Backdoor Roth IRA Tax Implications
- Backdoor Roth IRA Steps
- How to Fix and Prevent Backdoor Roth IRA Mistakes
- Backdoor Roth IRA FAQs
What Is a Backdoor Roth IRA?
Despite its name, a Backdoor Roth IRA is not an account; it is a process with two steps:
- Contribute to a Traditional IRA.
- Complete a Roth conversion.
If you understand the rules of both of these steps, putting them together is no problem.
Who Should Do a Backdoor Roth IRA
Remember that if you are a low earner you can just contribute DIRECTLY to a Roth IRA and skip this Backdoor Roth IRA process.
Roth IRA Limits and Conversion Rules
Low earner is defined as a Modified Adjusted Gross Income (MAGI) under a phaseout range in 2024 of $146,000-$161,000 ($230,000-$240,000 Married Filing Jointly). Some docs—like residents, employee dentists, part-timers, and even some medical attendings in the lower-paying specialties who are married to a non-earner—can just contribute to a Roth IRA directly.
Anyone who earns at least $7,000 ($8,000 if 50+) can contribute $7,000 ($8,000 if 50+) to an IRA [2024]. If your income is below a MAGI of $146,000-$161,000 ($230,000-$240,000 Married Filing Jointly), you can contribute directly to a Roth IRA. If you have a retirement plan offered to you at work and your MAGI is below $77,000-$87,000 ($123,000-$143,000 Married Filing Jointly), you can deduct your traditional IRA contributions. Since most readers of this blog have a retirement plan through their job and have (or soon will have) a MAGI over $240,000, they will find that they can't make direct Roth IRA contributions or deduct their traditional IRA contributions. Thus, their best IRA option is the Backdoor Roth IRA process, i.e., an indirect Roth IRA contribution.
Spousal IRAs
Married physicians should be using a personal and a spousal Roth IRA, and you will usually need to fund both indirectly (i.e., through the Backdoor). This provides an additional $7,000 each ($8,000 for each spouse that is 50+) of tax-protected and (in most states) asset-protected space per tax year, and it allows for more tax diversification in retirement. Tax diversification allows you to determine your own tax rate as a retiree by deciding how much to take from tax-deferred (traditional) accounts and how much from tax-free (Roth) accounts. Remember that IRA stands for INDIVIDUAL Retirement Arrangement, so even if the pro-rata rule (discussed below) keeps you from doing the Backdoor Roth IRA, it doesn't necessarily keep your spouse from doing so. Each spouse reports their Backdoor Roth IRA on their own separate 8606, so the tax return for a married couple doing Backdoor Roth IRAs should always include two Form 8606s.
Married Filing Separately
The contribution and deduction income limits are particularly low if you are filing your taxes Married Filing Separately (MFS). Both the ability to contribute directly to a Roth IRA and the ability to deduct a traditional IRA contribution if you (or your spouse) are eligible for a retirement plan at work phase out between $0 and $10,000. Basically, the best option for anyone filing their taxes MFS is the Backdoor Roth IRA process, i.e., an indirect Roth IRA contribution.
There is an exception to these rules if you do not actually live with your spouse. In that case, your ability to contribute directly to a Roth IRA phases out between a MAGI of $146,000-$161,000 in 2024. If you live separately and are not covered by a retirement plan at work, you can deduct a traditional IRA contribution no matter your income. You can still do a Backdoor Roth IRA process in these situations where your IRA contribution is either partially or completely deductible. The tax bill will be precisely the same: $0 when done properly. However, instead of having no tax cost for either the contribution or the conversion, your deduction on the contribution will precisely equal the tax cost on the conversion, resulting in that same $0 tax bill for the entire process.
Mega Backdoor Roth IRA
A Mega Backdoor Roth IRA is completely different from a regular Backdoor Roth IRA. Despite its name, you actually do a Mega Backdoor Roth IRA with a 401(k), not an IRA. It requires a 401(k) that accepts both after-tax (not Roth) employee contributions and allows for either in-service withdrawals (and thus conversions to a Roth IRA) or, more commonly, in-plan conversions. Using the Mega Backdoor Roth IRA process, one could put as much as $69,000 ($76,500 if 50+) [2024] per year into a Roth 401(k) (or possibly a Roth IRA in addition to your usual $7,000-$8.000 contribution). However, this process has nothing to do with the Backdoor Roth IRA process we are discussing in this post.
When to Do a Backdoor Roth IRA
Lots of people wonder about the timing of a Backdoor Roth IRA.
IRA Contribution Deadline
There is really only one deadline to meet with the Backdoor Roth IRA process. IRA contributions for a given tax year must take place between January 1 of the tax year and April 15 (even if you file an extension) of the following year.
Backdoor Roth IRA Conversion Deadline
The conversion step may take place at any time. It can take place the next day or even the same day as the contribution. I don't recommend it, but you can wait months, years, or even decades between the contribution and the conversion step. There is no deadline for Roth conversions. If you need to perform a rollover or a conversion of a traditional, rollover, SEP, or SIMPLE IRA in order to avoid the pro-rata rule, you have until December 31 of the year you do the conversion step.
When Should You Contribute and Convert?
You should do both steps as soon as possible. Many white coat investors do the IRA contribution step and the Roth conversion step the first week of January each year. This maximizes the amount of tax-free compounding that can occur on those dollars. Minimizing the time between contribution and conversion and doing both steps within the calendar year is not required, but it certainly simplifies the paperwork.
Want to really make your paperwork complicated? Contribute to your IRA each month and convert it each month. Then, you have 12 contributions and 12 conversions to keep track of each year. Seriously, though, if you make enough money that you have to contribute to your Roth IRA(s) through the Backdoor Roth IRA process, you make enough to do it at one time each year.
Can I Do a Backdoor Roth IRA Every Year?
Yes. My wife and I have done one every year since 2010 and do not plan to stop until we no longer have any earned income. It is just one of the investment chores we perform once a year.
5-Year Rule
One factor that may push you to do a Backdoor Roth IRA earlier is the five-year rule. Now, there are at least three five-year rules related to IRAs, but the main one to pay attention to here is the five-year rule after a Roth conversion. This rule determines whether the withdrawal of principal from the account prior to age 59 1/2 will be penalty-free. The five-year period starts on January 1 of the year you do the conversion, so it could be a little less than five years. Roth IRA principal generally comes out tax- and penalty-free (it is only the earnings that may be subject to penalties), but that is only the case after the five-year rule has been fulfilled.
In essence, if you do a conversion of a Roth IRA at age 51, you can then withdraw the principal tax- and penalty-free starting at age 56 rather than age 59 1/2. This can provide funding for living expenses to early retirees. If you do a Roth conversion at age 57, you still get access to that principal (and earnings) tax- and penalty-free at age 59 1/2. So, it's five years or age 59 1/2, whichever comes first.
There is also a completely separate five-year rule on IRA contributions, but this starts from the time you make your very first IRA contribution, not every contribution, so it should not apply to most early retirees.
Backdoor Roth IRA Pros and Cons
There are a lot of great things about the Backdoor Roth IRA, but it isn't all peaches and cream.
Pros of Backdoor Roth IRA
The main benefit of a Backdoor Roth IRA is that it provides you with another retirement account. Via the Backdoor Roth IRA process, you can continue to contribute to a Roth IRA even after your earnings rise above the income limit for direct Roth IRA contributions. Retirement accounts eliminate the tax drag that applies in a taxable, or non-qualified account, reducing your taxes and allowing your investment to grow at a higher rate so you can reach your goals sooner.
How much can that tax protection be worth compared to a taxable account? It depends on the return of the underlying investment, its tax efficiency, and the amount of time the money is left in the account. At my marginal tax rate, $10,000 earning 8% in a tax-inefficient investment over 50 years would grow to $469,000 in a Roth IRA but only $88,000 in a taxable account. More realistically, over 30 years, the use of a Roth IRA vs. a taxable account for a tax-efficient investment would still result in 29% more money.
Retirement accounts ensure simple estate planning. By using beneficiaries, that money does not go through the probate process, so your heirs get it sooner with less hassle, more privacy, and no cost. They can even stretch the tax-protected growth benefit for another decade after they inherit the account. Retirement accounts like a Roth IRA also provide substantial asset protection in most states, meaning that in the admittedly very rare event of a dramatically above-policy limits judgment that isn't reduced on appeal, you can declare bankruptcy and still keep what is in your retirement accounts. Roth money is tax-free forever, so by continuing to contribute each year, you can increase tax diversification in retirement.
Cons of Backdoor Roth IRA
Roth IRAs, even when you contribute via the Backdoor Roth IRA process, are still retirement accounts with all of their downsides. Retirement accounts limit the investments you can put in them and prohibit the use of margin investing. If you withdraw Roth IRA earnings prior to age 59 1/2 without an approved exception, you will owe a 10% penalty.
Due to the pro-rata rule (see below), the Backdoor Roth IRA process requires you to either convert or roll over into a 401(k) any traditional IRAs, SEP-IRAs, and SIMPLE IRAs you may have. If you have self-employment income, you will need to use a solo 401(k) instead of a SEP-IRA to shelter that income from taxes. Doing Backdoor Roth IRAs each year also adds one form (IRS Form 8606) per spouse to your tax return. If preparing your own taxes using tax software, it can be tricky to ensure the software reports the process correctly. If you do a Backdoor Roth IRA instead of (rather than in addition to) maxing out your tax-deferred accounts during your peak earnings years, that can also be a mistake that results in the accumulation of less money.
Perhaps most significantly, there are now two steps to getting money into your Roth IRA each year instead of just one. While I think the process is pretty darn simple, I am continually amazed at all of the unique ways that doctors manage to screw it up. Later in this article, I'll show you how to fix all of those screwups.
Is a Backdoor Roth IRA Worth It?
Yes! Most of the time. It really is just a little bit of hassle to do each year, although there may be some additional hassle the first year if you need to take care of another IRA first to avoid the pro-rata rule. There may be times when someone has a large traditional IRA they cannot afford to convert to a Roth IRA and cannot roll over into a 401(k) because they don't have a 401(k) at all, their 401(k) charges high fees, or because the IRA assets are invested in something they cannot invest in within a 401(k). If your employer-provided retirement account is a SIMPLE IRA or a SEP-IRA, the Backdoor Roth IRA process is also probably not worth it. Finally, some multi-millionaires don't want to bother with even the minor hassle of the Backdoor Roth IRA process because getting an extra $7,000-$16,000 a year into Roth accounts just isn't going to move the needle for them.
Backdoor Roth IRA Tax Implications
Roth IRAs are all about avoiding taxation on earnings, so naturally, there are lots of tax implications of this process.
Pro-Rata Rule
The most important tax implication to be aware of is the pro-rata rule. I would estimate that 90%+ of Backdoor Roth IRA screwups involve the investor having his or her conversion pro-rated. When you report a Roth IRA conversion on IRS Form 8606 (see below), there is a pro-rata calculation made. The numerator is the amount converted. The denominator is the total of ALL traditional, rollover, SEP, and SIMPLE IRAs, but not 401(k)s, 403(b)s, 457(b)s, Roth IRAs, or inherited IRAs. Therefore, it is critical that you DO SOMETHING with any IRA balance you have PRIOR to December 31 of the year in which you do a Roth conversion of after-tax money. Later in this article, I'll describe the exact options you have for what to do with this money.
Tax on Backdoor Roth IRA Conversion
Done properly, there is NO tax on a Backdoor Roth IRA conversion. Zero. Nada. Zilch. While the money you put into a Roth IRA (indirectly via the Backdoor in this case) was taxed when you earned it, it is NOT taxed when you contribute it directly to a Roth IRA or when you contribute it as a non-deductible IRA conversion or when you subsequently convert that money to a Roth IRA. In fact, it is never taxed again.
Do I Need to Worry About the Step Transaction Doctrine?
There used to be a concern that the IRS would have a problem with the Backdoor Roth due to an IRS rule called The Step Transaction Doctrine. This rule basically says that if the sum of a bunch of legal steps is illegal, then you can’t do it. Some wondered if this Backdoor conversion from a Traditional IRA to Roth was a legal transaction considering this doctrine. Those concerns, valid or not, are no longer an issue. The IRS clarified in early 2018 that no waiting period is required between the contribution and conversion steps of the Backdoor Roth IRA. It has essentially given its blessing on the whole process. Waiting just makes things more complicated on the 8606, as discussed in Pennies and the Backdoor Roth IRA.
How to Report a Backdoor Roth IRA on TurboTax
Reporting the Backdoor Roth IRA properly on TurboTax is unfortunately even more complicated than filling out Form 8606 by hand. The key to doing it right is to recognize that you report the conversion step in the Income section but you report the contribution step in the Deductions and Credits section. Since you generally do the income section first, you report the conversion before you report the contribution, even though you actually did the contribution before the conversion. At the end, you want to look at the Form(s) 8606 that TurboTax generates, just like you would check up on one filled out by an accountant.
More information here:
How to Report a Backdoor Roth IRA on TurboTax
Backdoor Roth IRA Steps, Tutorials, and Walkthroughs
In this section, we'll explain exactly how to do the Backdoor Roth IRA process and how to report it on your tax return, whether you file on paper or using tax software. You can easily walk through these Backdoor Roth IRA steps at Vanguard, complete a Backdoor Roth at Fidelity, or knock out a Backdoor Roth IRA at Schwab, three of the most popular brokerage/mutual fund companies.
How to Perform and Report on Paper the Backdoor Roth IRA Process
While it is really just a two-step process, it is best to think of it as a six-step process. These steps don't all have to be done in order (it might be easier to do Step 3 before Step 1), but they will all need to be done.
Step #1 Contribute to a Traditional IRA
Make a $7,000 ($8,000 if 50+) non-deductible traditional IRA contribution for yourself and one for your spouse. You can use the same traditional IRA accounts every year—they just spend most of the time with $0 in them. Most fund companies, including Vanguard, don’t close the account just because there is nothing in it. I do this every January 2.
Step #2 Leave the Money in Cash
An account like a traditional IRA is not an investment, of course; just like a suitcase isn't clothing. When putting money in a traditional IRA, you also have to tell the IRA provider how you want to invest. In this case, just leave the money in cash, whether a money market fund or a settlement fund. At Vanguard, the settlement fund is the Federal Money Market Fund. You really don't want to have any gains (or especially any losses) between the contribution and conversion step because it makes the paperwork more complicated. The best way to minimize the gains is to leave it in cash (and then of course to do the conversion as soon after contribution as possible to minimize the “pennies” issue).
Step #3 Convert the Traditional IRA to a Roth IRA
Next, convert the non-deductible traditional IRA to a Roth IRA by transferring the money from your traditional IRA into your Roth IRA at the same fund company. If you don’t already have a Roth IRA there, you’ll need to open one. This can be done in a minute or two online at Vanguard, and it is essentially the same process as opening the traditional IRA. I do this the very next day after I make the contribution. It is very straightforward. When you transfer the money, the website will throw up a scary banner saying something like “THIS IS A TAXABLE EVENT.” That’s true. It is taxable. But the tax bill will be zero since you’ve already paid taxes on the $7,000 and couldn’t claim your contribution as a deduction because you make too much money. You can do Step 3 basically immediately after Step 1. Some companies will let you do it the same day. Other companies will make you wait until the next day or even a week or so. But there is no reason to wait months to do it.
Step #4 Invest the Money
Now you will need to select an investment for the money in your Roth IRA. If you already have an investment in there, you can simply add $7,000 to it. Otherwise, you will need to select an investment in accordance with your written investing plan. If you do not have a written investing plan yet, you can leave the money in cash or put it into a Target Retirement 2050 fund or another lifecycle fund until you get that part of your financial plan worked out.
Step #5 Beware of the Pro-Rata Rule
Get rid of any SEP-IRA, SIMPLE IRA, traditional IRA, or rollover IRA money. The total sum of these accounts on December 31 of the year in which you do the conversion step (Step 2) must be zero to avoid a “pro-rata” calculation (see line 6 on Form 8606) that can eliminate most of the benefit of a Backdoor Roth IRA.
You can get rid of these IRA accounts in three ways:
- Withdraw the money (not recommended, as the money would be subject to tax and/or penalties, not to mention DECREASING your tax-advantaged/asset-protected investment space).
- Convert the entire sum to a Roth IRA. Only recommended if it is a relatively small amount and you can afford to pay the taxes out of current earnings or taxable investments with relatively high basis.
- Roll the money over into a 401(k), 403(b), or individual 401(k). 401(k)s don’t count in the aforementioned pro-rata calculation. Some physicians even open an individual 401(k) at Fidelity, eTrade, or Vanguard (rollovers from traditional IRAs to solo 401(k)s is a recent addition to Vanguard) in order to facilitate a Backdoor Roth IRA.
Step #6 Fill Out IRS Form 8606 Correctly
The next part of the Backdoor Roth IRA is done months later when you (or your accountant) fill out your IRS Form 8606 on your taxes. Don't forget to do it or there is a $50 penalty. Remember that you need one form for each spouse: INDIVIDUAL Retirement Arrangements. You need to double-check this to make sure it is done right, even if you hire a pro to avoid screwing up this part. Advisors have told me that they have had to help clients fix dozens of these that tax preparers have done improperly. If you don't do it right, you'll pay taxes twice on your Backdoor Roth IRA contribution.
Page 1 (below) shows a “distribution” from your non-deductible IRA. Since the money was already taxed, the taxable amount on your distribution is zero. Line 1 is your non-deductible contribution. On Line 2, your basis is zero because you had no money in a traditional IRA on December 31 of last year (if you've been carrying a non-deductible IRA for years, this may not be zero). Line 6 is zero in a typical year. Note that TurboTax may fill this out a little differently (may leave lines 6-12 blank), but you end up with the same thing. Line 13 is the same as line 3, so the tax due is zero.
Here's an example from the 2023 version of Form 8606.
On page 2 (below), you are showing the Roth conversion. I'm not really sure why you have to do this twice (since you're just transferring the amounts from lines 8 and 11 and then subtracting them), but that's what the form calls for. As you can see, a Roth conversion of a non-deductible traditional IRA contribution without any gains is a taxable event; it's just that the tax bill is zero for it.
When double-checking your tax preparer's work, you want to concentrate on lines 2, 14, 15c, and 18, and make sure they're a very small amount, like zero, and not a very large amount, like $7,000. The form can get more complicated if you are doing other Roth conversions at the same time or if you made a contribution for the previous year (i.e., made your 2022 contribution in 2023). See below for more details.
Notice how there is no place on the form to put the date when you made the contribution or the date when you made the conversion. It isn't on the form your IRA custodian sends to the IRS (1099-R) either.
Do It All Again Next Year
You do not have to wait any period of time between the contribution and conversion. Each year, I make my Traditional IRA contribution on January 2, then convert it to a Roth IRA the next day or within a few days. That gets my investment money working as soon as possible and simplifies the record keeping. Vanguard won’t let you do it the same day (sometimes other providers will), so I have to wait one day anyway. Occasionally they'll make you wait up to a week. If you find you have a few pennies left in the account and are worried you'll get pro-rated, take a look at this post: Pennies and the Backdoor Roth IRA.
More information here:
How to Do a Backdoor Roth IRA with Vanguard
How to Do a Backdoor Roth IRA at Fidelity
How to Fix and Prevent Backdoor Roth IRA Mistakes
In this section, we're going to talk about how to fix and prevent common mistakes in the Backdoor Roth IRA process. To better organize these mistakes, we will break down the process into the six very clear steps used above and then will explain possible errors with each step and what to do about them.
6 Steps to Successfully Contribute to a Backdoor Roth IRA
- Step 1 – Contribute to traditional IRA ($7,000, $8,000 if 50+ for 2024).
- Step 2 – Invest the money in a money market fund.
- Step 3 – Move money from a Traditional IRA to a Roth IRA (i.e., a Roth conversion).
- Step 4 – Invest in your preferred investment (typically a stock, bond, or balanced index mutual fund).
- Step 5 – Ensure you have no money in a traditional IRA, SEP-IRA, or SIMPLE IRA on December 31 of the year you do the CONVERSION step.
- Step 6 – Report the transactions correctly on your taxes by filling out Form 8606.
Seriously. That's it. If you can do a cholecystectomy, you can do this. If you can work up a pulmonary embolus appropriately, you can do this. If you can manage hypertension well, you can do this. If you can fill a cavity, you can do this. Super easy.
However, people still manage to screw up on EACH of those six steps. Let's go through the mistakes people make, step by step.
How to Fix Backdoor Roth IRA Mistakes
Step 1 Error – Contributing Directly to a Roth IRA
An error that commonly occurs with a first Backdoor Roth IRA is that people simply don't realize that their income is too high to make a direct Roth IRA contribution. Instead of doing it indirectly (i.e., going through the Backdoor), which is no big deal even if you're under the limit, they contribute directly to a Roth IRA. Then they realize their Modified Adjusted Gross Income (MAGI) is over $146,000-$161,000 ($230,000-$240,000 Married Filing Jointly) for 2024. Now what?
Enter the Recharacterization
If you have made this error, now you have to recharacterize the Roth IRA contribution to a traditional IRA contribution. This basically makes it as though you never contributed to a Roth IRA but contributed to a traditional IRA instead. You usually have to call your IRA provider to get this done, but it's no big deal. In this section, I'll walk you through the details of how to do it.
You have until the due date of your tax return to do this (including extensions). So, if you made an IRA contribution in January of 2023 for the 2023 tax year, you have until October 15, 2024, to do a recharacterization. There's no penalty or anything to do it. You can do the opposite as well if you contributed to a traditional IRA but meant to contribute directly to a Roth IRA.
Bear in mind that starting in 2018, you can no longer do recharacterizations of Roth CONVERSIONS (not contributions). This eliminated the “Roth IRA Conversion Horserace” technique for tax reduction.
Until only a couple of years ago, I had thought there was a waiting period after a recharacterization to then reconvert the money to a Roth IRA. However, that rule was only for recharacterizations of conversions, not contributions. There has never been a waiting period for a recharacterization.
Any gains that occur before the final conversion are, of course, fully taxable at your ordinary income tax rate in the year of the final conversion.
The Income Limit
The first thing to determine is whether this post even applies to you. If your income is below a certain amount, you can just contribute directly to a Roth IRA. That amount depends on several things. First, it is a MODIFIED Adjusted Gross Income (MAGI). That number is very similar to your Adjusted Gross Income (AGI). Remember how tax Form 1040 works.
The first income line you come to is line 7b, your “Total Income.” When people think about income, this is generally what they think of. The third income line on the form is line 11b. This is your “Taxable Income.” This is what your tax bill is actually calculated from. It is basically your total income minus all of your deductions. In between those two, on line 8b, is another income, your “Adjusted Gross Income.” This is “the line” that people are talking about when they use the phrases “above-the-line deduction” and “below-the-line deduction.” If it comes out before your AGI is calculated, it is an above-the-line deduction. These are deductions such as self-employment tax, self-employed retirement plans, self-employed health insurance premiums, HSA contributions, student loan interest, alimony, tuition, and any IRA deductions. If it comes out after your AGI is calculated, it is a below-the-line deduction. These are EITHER your standard deduction OR your itemized deductions, like mortgage interest, state/local/property taxes, and charitable contributions. A MAGI is just a slight tweak to your AGI.
Below are the MAGI limits for direct Roth IRA contributions [2024]. If your MAGI is below the first number, you can just contribute to a Roth IRA directly. If your MAGI is over the second number, you cannot contribute at all. If your MAGI is between the two numbers, you can make a partial direct contribution (most shouldn't bother with this, just do it all through the Backdoor).
- Married Filing Separately (and lived with spouse for at least part of the year): $0-$10,000
- Married Filing Jointly: $230,000-$240,000
- Single or Head of Household: $146,000-$161,000
If you think you'll be anywhere close to that first number, do yourself a favor and just make your Roth IRA contribution indirectly, i.e., through the Backdoor (contribute to a traditional IRA and then convert that contribution to a Roth IRA). Since 2010, there has been no income limit on Roth conversions and there has never been an income limit on traditional IRA contributions, just your ability to deduct them.
How does a MAGI differ from an AGI? It's a very slight difference. Bear in mind that there are other MAGIs out there. We're only talking about the one that affects Roth IRA contributions here. But to get your MAGI, you simply take your AGI, subtract some income from it, and add back in some other income to it. The worksheet showing you how to do this is Worksheet 2-1 in Publication 590.
Basically, you subtract income from a Roth conversion and you add income from IRA deductions (not sure why you'd have this), student loan interest (if you are using this worksheet, you probably don't have this), tuition deduction (you probably don't have this), a couple of rare deductions for foreign income/deductions (you probably don't have these), some savings bond interest you probably don't have much of, and some employer-provided adoption benefits. For most people, your MAGI = your AGI since all of these deductions are pretty rare for the folks worried about this limit for direct Roth IRA contributions. So, focus on your AGI. That means if you contributed directly to a Roth IRA but late in the year realized you probably should not have, one easy fix is to get your AGI below that limit by contributing to an HSA or a self-employed retirement plan like an individual 401(k) or SEP-IRA. Note that giving a bunch of money to charity is NOT a solution to this problem because that is a below-the-line deduction.
How to Do an IRA Recharacterization
If you can't get your MAGI low enough, you will have to do an IRA recharacterization. As far as the IRS is concerned, a recharacterization is as though you never made the Roth IRA contribution at all but made a traditional IRA contribution instead. You don't report a recharacterization separately; you just report a traditional IRA contribution. Keep in mind as you read on the internet about recharacterizations that there used to be two types of them—a recharacterization of a Roth IRA CONTRIBUTION and a recharacterization of a Roth IRA CONVERSION. The second type was outlawed in 2018, but the first one, the one we're talking about today, is still perfectly legal. If you decide you want to undo a Roth conversion these days, you're simply out of luck. Here is how you do a recharacterization of a Roth IRA contribution:
- You tell Vanguard (or wherever your IRAs are) to recharacterize the Roth IRA contribution to a Traditional IRA contribution.
Yup. That's it. The brokerage takes care of the rest. You can read all about all of the rules in Publication 590 Chapter 1 if you want, but that's basically what they say. Don't believe me? Fine. Here are the IRS instructions:
How Do You Recharacterize a Contribution?
To recharacterize a contribution, you must notify both the trustee of the first IRA (the one to which the contribution was actually made) and the trustee of the second IRA (the one to which the contribution is being moved) that you have elected to treat the contribution as having been made to the second IRA rather than the first. You must make the notifications by the date of the transfer. Only one notification is required if both IRAs are maintained by the same trustee. The notification(s) must include all of the following information:
- The type and amount of the contribution to the first IRA that is to be recharacterized.
- The date on which the contribution was made to the first IRA and the year for which it was made.
- A direction to the trustee of the first IRA to transfer in a trustee-to-trustee transfer the amount of the contribution and any net income (or loss) allocable to the contribution to the trustee of the second IRA.
- The name of the trustee of the first IRA and the name of the trustee of the second IRA.
- Any additional information needed to make the transfer.
In most cases, the net income you must transfer is determined by your IRA trustee or custodian.
See what I mean? It's just a phone call. Any earnings that the account had in between the contribution and the recharacterization just go over with the contribution. No big deal.
You have until your tax filing date to do this. Most of the time, that's April 15 of the next year. However, the IRS is even more lenient than that. You actually can do this for an extra six months after your tax filing date, but you will have to refile your return.
Where Do You Report a Recharacterization?
If you hire somebody else to prepare your taxes, you can skip this section. If you do it yourself, you'll need to make sure you report this correctly. According to Pub 590, you report it on our old friend Form 8606.
Pub 590 says this:
Actually, that's really misleading. If you read Form 8606, you will see that the only time it ever mentions a recharacterization is to tell you NOT to put it on the form.
So, what is Pub 590 talking about? They're talking about this section in the 8606 instructions:
Reporting recharacterizations.
Treat any recharacterized IRA contribution as though the amount of the contribution was originally contributed to the second IRA, not the first IRA. For the recharacterization, you must transfer the amount of the original contribution plus any related earnings or less any related loss. In most cases, your IRA trustee or custodian figures the amount of the related earnings you must transfer. If you need to figure the related earnings, see How Do You Recharacterize a Contribution? in chapter 1 of Pub. 590-A. Treat any earnings or loss that occurred in the first IRA as having occurred in the second IRA. You can’t deduct any loss that occurred while the funds were in the first IRA . . . Report the nondeductible traditional IRA portion of the recharacterized contribution, if any, on Form 8606, Part I. Don’t report the Roth IRA contribution (whether or not you recharacterized all or part of it) on Form 8606. Attach a statement to your return explaining the recharacterization. If the recharacterization occurred in 2023, include the amount transferred from the traditional IRA on 2023 Form 1040, 1040-SR, or 1040-NR, line 4a. If the recharacterization occurred in 2024, report the amount transferred only in the attached statement, and not on your 2023 or 2024 tax return.
The bottom line is that you just report this recharacterized contribution on Form 8606 as if it were the regular old non-deductible traditional IRA contribution that you should have made in the first place. You also need to include a statement. What should your statement look like? I would write something like this:
“To whom it may concern:
I made a 2024 Roth IRA contribution of $7,000 on March 13, 2024, because I didn't know about the whole MAGI limit thing when I made the contribution. After becoming smarter, I recharacterized $7,137.14 (original contribution plus earnings) to a traditional IRA on November 4, 2024. Thank you for helping our country fund its government. You're the best.
Hugs and kisses from your favorite taxpayer,
James Dahle”
Seriously, it doesn't say what has to be on the statement, just that there is one “explaining the recharacterization.” You don't even have to tell them why you did the recharacterization. If you had a loss in the account between contribution and recharacterization, no big deal. It's still as though you made a $7,000 contribution to a traditional IRA and THEN it lost money. If you were able to deduct the contribution (you probably can't) you would get a $7,000 deduction. The IRA provider may also send you a Form 5498 (which has the recharacterized amount on line 4), but you don't actually do anything with it when you file your taxes. It's just an informational return.
Reconverting the IRA
Here is where it gets interesting. You've now fixed your mistake in the eyes of the IRS, going from an illegal Roth IRA contribution to a legal traditional IRA contribution (that is probably not deductible for you). But you aren't done with what you meant to do, which is put money into a Roth IRA. You now need to do a Roth conversion. You do it just like you normally would as if you had contributed originally to the Traditional IRA. You can do it the very next day if you like. You can probably even do it the same day; just make sure there is a paper trail showing the money was actually in the traditional IRA at some point. There used to be a waiting period after a recharacterization before you could do a Roth conversion on that money. But that waiting period only ever applied to the recharacterization of a Roth CONVERSION (which was no longer allowed starting in 2018) and NOT the recharacterization of a Roth CONTRIBUTION. So, there is no waiting period. Just reconvert convert it and go on your merry way.
I hope this information helps you fix your mistake. Just do your Roth IRA contributions through the Backdoor going forward, and you won't have this problem again.
Step 2 Error – Not Investing in a Money Market Fund in the Traditional IRA
What happens if you LOSE money in between the contribution and conversion step? This problem is easily avoided by using an investment like a money market fund that does not go down in value for that time period. But some people fail to do so and end up losing money. When they work their way through their IRS Form 8606, they discover they have basis left over that they can then carry forward indefinitely for years! No big deal; it just makes your paperwork more complicated. Perhaps at some point in the future, you'll do a Roth conversion of tax-deferred money and this carry-forward basis will reduce the tax on that event.
What if you MADE money in the account between contribution and conversion? This actually happens most of the time, so I wrote an entire post on it called Pennies and the Backdoor Roth IRA. Technically, any money earned between the contribution and conversion step is fully taxable at ordinary income tax rates in the year of the conversion. If it is less than 50 cents, you just ignore it. If it's more, you report it on your 8606 and pay taxes on it.
If it is still in the traditional IRA, either do another tiny Roth conversion or leave it there until you do next year's Backdoor Roth IRA process. Either is fine. If you were smart and just used a money market fund and did the conversion as soon as your IRA provider allowed it (usually less than a week and sometimes as early as the next day), this won't be much money and there won't be much tax due.
Step 3 Error – Forgetting to Do the Conversion
If you forgot to do the conversion step for eight months afterward, it could be a huge gain on which you're unnecessarily paying taxes. No way to fix this one, just pay your “stupid tax” and move on.
Step 4 Error – Forgetting to Invest the Roth IRA Money
Even worse than paying taxes on a huge gain is not getting the gain in the first place because you left the money sitting in cash for months. No way to fix this one either. Your “stupid tax” this time comes in the form of opportunity cost. Just get the money invested ASAP to stop the cash drag. Maybe you even got lucky and the market went down in between contribution and investment so now you get to buy low.
Step 5 Error – The Pro-Rata Rule
Some of the most common questions I get are from people who make a late contribution to a Backdoor Roth IRA. What do I mean by late? You are allowed to make an IRA contribution AFTER the calendar year ends. In fact, you have until Tax Day, usually April 15 unless you get an extension of up to six months. While it is to your advantage to contribute to retirement accounts as quickly as possible so that money can start compounding in a tax-protected way, I understand that we all have lots of good things to do with our money and sometimes this gets pushed back into the next calendar year. All it really does is complicate your paperwork a bit.
For example: if you made your 2023 IRA contribution in April 2024, instead of reporting both the contribution and the conversion on your 2023 taxes, you would report only the contribution there. The conversion would be reported on the taxes for the year you did the conversion, i.e., your 2024 tax return due in April 2025. Your 2023 IRS Form 8606 becomes a little simpler and your 2024 IRS Form 8606 becomes a little more complicated. Not a big deal if you can follow the simple instructions.
What confuses people, however, is the pro-rata rule. This is the rule that says you need to empty your traditional IRA by December 31 of the year you do the conversion. Since these folks have never filled out a Form 8606 (or apparently read the instructions), they assume that for a 2023 contribution they need to have a balance of $0 at the end of 2023, even if they didn't do the conversion step until 2024. That's simply not the case. The pro-rata rule isn't applied until the year of the conversion, i.e., December 31, 2024.
Emptying the IRAs
How do you empty those IRAs? You usually have two choices.
- Do a Roth conversion of the whole thing. This is what I generally recommend for small IRAs where the tax bill on the conversion would not be too onerous. It is quick and easy, and it increases the amount of tax-free assets you have.
- Roll the money into a 401(k) or 403(b), either that of your current employer, that of a past employer, or to your own individual 401(k) if you are self-employed. This is usually a better option if you have a large IRA where you would rather deal with the hassle than pay the tax bill during your peak earnings years.
How large is large and how small is small? It's going to vary by the person and how much disposable cash they have. Most would consider an IRA under $10,000 to be small and an IRA over $100,000 to be large. In between, it's a personal decision as to which would be better for you.
What If You Didn't Empty the IRA?
What if you screwed this one up? Your Backdoor Roth IRA conversion step just got pro-rata'd. There is a tax bill associated with that because most of your conversion was of tax-deferred money rather than post-tax money like it was supposed to be.
The fix for this is going to vary by the individual, but the easiest fix is to simply convert the entire IRA to a Roth IRA now, so you end up getting all your post-tax money into that Roth IRA. Another possible fix is to figure out a way to separate your basis in that IRA, roll the tax-deferred money into a 401(k), and then convert the basis left behind in the IRA.
Do yourself a favor and just empty the darn IRA by December 31. Keep in mind that this is usually not an instantaneous process, so don't put it off until you're on holiday break at the end of the year.
Step 6 Error – Screwing Up the Tax Forms
Both individual taxpayers and professional tax preparers screw up IRS Form 8606 all the time. In fact, some of them haven't even heard of a Backdoor Roth IRA. (Incidentally, this is one of the best questions to ask while interviewing a potential tax professional—”How many Backdoor Roth IRAs did you help last year?”)
The usual fix to this error is to file a 1040X (Amended Tax Return) and a new Form 8606. You can do this for the last three years if necessary. If you didn't file Form 8606 at all, you'll definitely want to do this. The key is to check lines 15c and 18 on Form 8606. They should both be a number very close to zero if the form is being completed correctly.
The tax preparer should NOT be filing Form 5439. If you did Steps 1-5 right, this form probably doesn't belong in your tax return.
A lot of people wonder about the 1099-R sent to them by their IRA provider and worry that it was done wrong and that it will cause them to pay taxes they shouldn't have to pay. Sometimes the form was filled out wrong, but mostly this is just a lot of anxiety. What gets people anxious is finding something on Line 2a “Taxable amount.” As long as the box on Line 2b is also checked “Taxable amount not determined,” you're golden. Don't worry about it. If it is not, have the IRA provider send you a new, correct form—either with $0 in 2a or the box in 2b checked (usually the latter). Here's what mine from a few years back looked like from Vanguard:
Note that Box 2b is checked, even though a taxable amount of $5,500.07 is being reported to the IRS.
Again, if you're not sure how to enter this into TurboTax, check out my TurboTax tutorial.
Still Confused About the Backdoor Roth?
Need more help with a Backdoor Roth IRA? I wish Congress would just lift the rule against direct Roth IRA contributions for high earners and save us all this hassle, but who knows if that will ever happen.
- If you made your contribution after the end of the year, check out Late Contributions to the Backdoor Roth IRA.
- Here's a step-by-step tutorial for doing a Backdoor Roth IRA at Vanguard.
- Here's a step-by-step tutorial for doing a Backdoor Roth IRA at Fidelity.
- Here is a step-by-step tutorial reporting the Backdoor Roth IRA in TurboTax.
- Here is my prior post on 17 Ways to Screw Up Your Backdoor Roth IRA.
- You can hire a professional to help you—either a good financial advisor or a good tax strategist can assist.
- You can also ask your peers for help on the WCI Forum, the Private WCI Facebook Group, and the WCI Subreddit.
Late Contributions to the Backdoor Roth IRA
While it is “cleaner” to make your contribution and your conversion all in the same calendar tax year, you can make your contribution up until your tax filing date of the next year. The key to filling out the 8606 correctly when you make a contribution after the calendar year is to recognize that the contribution step is reported for the tax year and the conversion step is reported for the calendar year. So imagine you did the following during the calendar year 2023:
- Made a 2022 IRA contribution (reported on 2022 8606)
- Did a Roth conversion of that contribution (reported on 2023 8606)
- Made a 2023 IRA contribution (reported on 2023 8606)
- Did a Roth conversion of that contribution (reported on 2023 8606)
Your forms would look like this:
2022 Form 8606 (Only Have to Fill Out Part I)
Note that all this serves to do is report basis for the next year. No tax is due. Since no conversion step was done during the calendar year 2022, you only have to fill out lines 1-3 and 14.
2023 Form 8606 (Must Fill Out Parts I and II)
Note that you've got to do all of Part I plus Part II for this year because you did the conversion step, unlike last year (2022). Let's go through this line by line.
Form 8606 – Part I
- Line 1 – That's the money you contributed for 2023 (which would be $6,500).
- Line 2 – This is your basis. Since you made a contribution for 2022 but didn't do a conversion until 2023, your basis is $6,000.
- Line 3 – $6,500 + $6,000 = $12,500.
- Line 4 – Remember this is asking about 2024, not 2023, and since you won't make the mistake of doing your contribution late again, this will be zero.
- Line 5 – $12,500 – $0 = $12,500.
- Line 6 – This is the line that triggers the pro-rata issue. Even though you made a 2022 contribution, you did so AFTER December 31, so this line would still be zero if you filled it out for 2022, which you didn't because you didn't do a conversion in 2022 and got to skip lines 4-13. But this is the 2023 form and since you converted your entire traditional IRA, this will be $0.
- Line 7 – This doesn't include conversions. Since you didn't take any money out of your traditional IRA this year except the conversion, this is $0.
- Line 8 – You converted a total of $12,500 this year to a Roth IRA, so $12,500.
- Line 9 – $0 + $0 + $12,500 = $12,500.
- Line 10 – $12,500/$12,500 = 1.
- Line 11 – $12,500 * 1 = $12,500.
- Line 12 – $0 * 1 = $0.
- Line 13 – $12,500 + $0 = $12,500.
- Line 14 – $12,500 – $12,500 = $0.
- Line 15a – $0 – $0 = $0.
- Line 15b – You didn't take money out of an IRA to help you survive a disaster, so $0.
- Line 15c – $0 – $0 = $0.
Part II
- Line 16 – Line 8 is $12,500 so $12,500.
- Line 17 – Line 11 is $12,500 so $12,500.
- Line 18 – $12,500 – $12,500 = $0.
Backdoor Roth IRA FAQs
Can I still do a Backdoor Roth IRA for last year?
You have until tax day (generally April 15, but as late as October 15 if you file an extension) of the following year to make your traditional IRA contribution. There is no deadline for the Roth conversion step; it can be done at anytime. Make sure you fill out the paperwork properly according to the section above about late contributions.
Can I do last year's IRA contribution and this year's IRA contribution at the same time and convert them at the same time?
Yes. Just remember to report last year's contribution on last year's Form 8606 and this year's contribution and the conversion on this year's Form 8606.
Does my 401(k), 403(b), 457(b), Roth IRA, or inherited IRA count toward the pro-rata calculation?
No. Only traditional IRAs, rollover IRAs, SEP-IRAs, and SIMPLE IRAs count. See line 6 of Form 8606 for details.
What if it is a separate IRA? Does it still count?
Yes. All IRAs count toward the pro-rata calculation.
What should I do with my rollover or traditional IRA to avoid pro-ration?
If it is small, convert it to a Roth IRA along with this year's traditional IRA contribution and pay the tax due on it. If large, try to roll it into your employer's 401(k) or if you have self-employment income, into your individual 401(k).
I got pro-rated. What now?
The easiest solution is to convert the entire IRA, SEP-IRA, or SIMPLE IRA that caused the pro-ration and is now composed of both pre-tax and after-tax money. That is also the most expensive solution. A harder solution that may save you some taxes involves isolating the basis in that IRA by rolling the rest of the account into a 401(k) and then convert just the basis to a Roth IRA.
I am leaving my employer. Should I roll my 401(k) or 403(b) into a traditional IRA? If not, what should I do with it?
If you put it into a traditional IRA it is going to cause any future Backdoor Roths to be pro-rated. Better options include leaving it where it is; rolling it into your new employer's 401(k) or 403(b); rolling it into your individual 401(k); or, if it is small, just converting the whole thing to a Roth IRA.
How much can I contribute to a Roth IRA via the Backdoor Roth IRA process?
In 2024, you are allowed to contribute $7,000 ($8,000 if 50+) per year for you and $7,000 ($8,000 if 50+) for your spouse. This includes all contributions to traditional and Roth IRAs. Rollovers/transfers do not count toward the annual contribution limit.
What should I invest the money into?
While in the traditional IRA for a day or two, leave it in cash. Once it is in the Roth IRA, invest it according to your written investing plan. If you don't have one, get one, but in the meantime it would be a good idea to put it into a lifecycle fund such as a Vanguard Target Retirement Fund.
Can I use the same traditional and Roth IRA each year or do I need new ones?
You can use the same ones each year.
The Backdoor Roth IRA process leads to more tax-free retirement account money for doctors and other high-income professionals. If you follow the simple steps outlined above, you will pay less in taxes, boost your returns, facilitate your estate planning, and increase your asset protection. Most members of The White Coat Investor community do these every year, and you should too.
What do you think? Are you doing Backdoor Roth IRAs? Why or why not? Any questions about it?
[This updated post was originally published in 2014.]
Quick question – this will now be my third year contributing to a backdoor Roth for my wife and myself with Vanguard. The last two years the contributions sat in the IRA money market fun for a couple days prior to the conversion – as a result, the 6k contribution gained a few dollars. So I currently have literally $2 or $3 bucks in each IRA account as I just convert the $6k from IRA to Roth. Does this matter? What should I do with this? Cash it out?
Just convert it all. You’ll owe taxes on a few dollars.
https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/pennies-and-the-backdoor-roth-ira/
I contributed through bank transfer $6000 to my traditional IRA at Vanguard 1/4/2021. When I went to convert it to a Roth IRA yesterday it says there are no funds to transfer, and the funds won’t be available until 1/11/2021. You say in your post that you convert the funds the next day. How do you do this the next day? Do you mean you do it the day after the funds are available? Sorry for the nit-picking.
Me too and mine came from the settlement fund in my taxable account at Vanguard. It’s a Vanguard thing, not a Backdoor Roth IRA thing. Keep checking back each day for up to a week until it settles. Let me try again right now. Yup, I could do the conversion. But it still didn’t let me invest the funds into the actual investment in the Roth IRA. I guess it’ll be a three day process this year. Thanks Vanguard.
I believe Fidelity changed its working when converting money from a traditional IRA to a Roth IRA. I did convert my entire $6k January 2, 2021 and the amount of money in my traditional IRA is $6k. It is now asking me if:
A. I don’t want to pay taxes now OR
B. I want to pay taxes now.
What should i pick? I’m thinking B since the amount of interest I earned in that 2 days will be none to minimal, but I just want to be sure.
Thank you.
hey man you can just choose pay taxes later- it should be $0 when you fill out your taxes come April 15th. that’s what I do and I’ve been doing BDR for couple years now.
I transferred my IRA (about 170K) to my employee 401k on 12/28/2020 and the funds appeared in my 401k account today 1/5/2021.
However my former IRA still shows small dividend income that keeps coming in e.g $15-20. Would that affect my contribution and conversion which I’m trying to do this January? Should I try to roll them over too (which is kinda annoying cos it was an indirect rollover) or just pay taxes on them when the time comes?
Yes, but it’ll be a pretty minor pro-ration, assuming that IRA shows a balance of only $15 at the end of the year. The end of the year is really a bad time to be rushing this sort of thing as it makes your paperwork more complicated and can even result in pro-ration. Much better to do it in January. And yes, you’re now going to have to do a rollover of $15 or just close that IRA and pay taxes on the $15. Your choice.
Happy New Year Everyone,
Some of us have the ability to contribute post tax dollars to a Defined Contribution Plan (AKA 401a) which we can then rollover into a Roth IRA in backdoor fashion. Because of this mechanism, it does not trigger Pro Rata even if one holds Pre-Tax money in a Traditional IRA.
I’m just wondering on the proper documentation for this?
Since it’s not a conversion from an IRA, we do not need 8086?
We only fill out Form 5498, boxes 2 and 10 correct?
First time doing this form of “backdoor” and wish to do it correctly. Thank you for any help in advance.
401(a) contributions show up on your W-2 and don’t go on form 8606. But yes, the conversions would go on form 5498, but on line 3.
You can also do a Backdoor Roth IRA in addition to a Roth conversion from your 401(a).
Thank you for such a timely response Jim.
Because I have some traditional IRA funds, a true backdoor Roth has the limitation of 1) Pro rata trigger and 2) a limit of $7,000 annually (I’m 54).
I felt that after I maxed out my 403b and 457b at $26K each, my next best recourse would be to put after tax moneys into the 401a and then convert the next day to Roth IRA at my Fidelity account.
The 5498 Instructions for Box 3 read:
Box 3. Roth IRA Conversion Amount
Enter the amount converted from a traditional IRA, SEP
IRA, or SIMPLE IRA to a Roth IRA during 2020. Do not
include a rollover from one Roth IRA to another Roth IRA,
or a qualified rollover contribution under section 408A(e)
from an eligible retirement plan (other than an IRA) to a
Roth IRA. These rollovers are reported in box 2.
Given this, I think it Box 2 makes more sense does it not? Instructions read:
Box 2. Rollover Contributions
Enter any rollover contributions (or contributions treated
as rollovers) to any IRA received by you during 2020.
These contributions may be any of the following.
• A 60-day rollover between Roth IRAs or between other
types of IRAs.
• A direct or indirect (within 60 days) rollover from a
qualified plan, section 403(b) plan, or governmental
section 457(b) plan.
• Any qualified rollover contribution as defined in section
408A(e) from an eligible retirement plan (other than an
IRA) to a Roth IRA.
• A military death gratuity.
• An SGLI payment.
Thank you once again. All the best.
I thought you were converting money from a 401(a) to a Roth IRA. That goes in box 3 as I understand what you have written.
Thank you Jim. Yes. I am converting money from 401a to Roth IRA. Will look into further but I’m immensely grateful for your direction. Warm regards.
M
Hi WCI,
Happy New Year!
Just curious, what is your Roth IRA composed of?
I have some individual stocks like AAPL, MSFT, and VZ, and also VNQ (REIT ETF) and VYM (high dividend ETF).
I am at TD Ameritrade so can’t buy Admiral funds for free.
Thanks!
Buying individual stocks is generally a bad idea for reasons discussed here:
https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/picking-individual-stocks-is-a-losers-game/
You can buy Vanguard or iShares ETFs at TD Ameritrade, same expense ratio as admiral funds but minimal commission (if any). They’re basically the same as the admiral class of traditional Vanguard mutual funds.
You should look at all of your retirement assets (often including a taxable account) as one big investing account with one overall asset allocation. That’s what I do. My asset allocation is:
60% stocks (25% TSM, 15% TISM, 15% SV, 5% IS)
20% bonds (10% TIPS, 10% nominal)
20% real estate (5% REITs, 5% debt, 10% equity)
My Roth IRA is full of the Vanguard REIT index fund. My wife’s is full of the Vanguard Small Value Index Fund. The other asset classes are in other accounts.
I plan to open up individual and spousal IRA for 2020 with vanguard to convert to roth via the backdoor. I have a couple of technical questions. Do I need to open up a seperate account with vanguard for my wife’s spousal IRA and convert it on her account? Or, can I add 12000 to my individual IRA for her and me and then convert it? Any advice how to go about doing the spousal IRA? Best.
Yes.
IRAs are INDIVIDUAL. You each need one, even if it is a spousal IRA.
I got some bad advice from Fidelity a couple years ago and now I have dug myself into a hole. About 10 years ago I rolled over a 401 (about 35K) to a rollover IRA at Fidelity. I then contributed nondeductible after tax money (30K or so) to it over several years. I then learned about the back door Roth option. I was advised just to open a traditional IRA at Fidelity and do the Roth conversion with that. In reading your post though it seems that the rollover IRA is a problem because I converted 6K to Roth last year and the same the year before. My rollover IRA had 100K in it on Dec 31. How do I fix this? I’d like to use the back door Roth option moving forward. My questions:
1. Seems that I’m going to have to pay the extra tax for the last two years conversion? Pro-rata rule? Do I have to amend 2019’s return some how?
2. How do I fix the rollover IRA? Can I somehow separate the original rollover amount from the nondeductible contributions into different accounts? Should I move the entire balance to an individual 401 at Fidelity? Probably shouldn’t convert the 100K to Roth right?
Yes, your conversions will be prorated. The easy fix is just converting the whole thing and paying taxes on all the pre-tax money. But it’ll cost you something like $15K+ in taxes to go that route.
1. Yes. Yes. Yes.
2. Try to convert it if you can afford it. If not, try to separate the basis by rolling the pre-tax money into a 401k and converting the rest. You won’t have to pay taxes on the full $100K. The basis (the amount you didn’t get a tax deduction for) doesn’t get taxed again.
Thank you so much for your reply. I spoke with Fidelity. My 401 allows for a roll-in from the IRA. So I moved all the pretax money out of the IRA and will convert all the after tax money to the Roth IRA. I appreciate all your work on this website. Such a great resource.
Awesome. Sounds like it will work out great for you.
I have a $1.50 in my traditional IRA account and if I do contribute the $6000 allowed for IRA it will be $6001.50. Should I then convert $6000 into Roth IRA or convert the change as well? I am just not sure about how it would impact my tax filing.
Convert it all and invest it all. You might owe $1 in tax.
With Fidelity, when you go to convert the $6K from the traditional IRA to the Roth IRA it requires you to pick either “I don’t want to pay taxes now” or “I want to pay taxes now.” Should the latter be selected? And should it be $0?
Hey I just did BDR past 2 years at Fidelity and have always selected “I dont’ want to pay taxes now.” There is really no tax to pay anyway should be $0 comes April 15th.
No, the former. They’re asking if you want to withhold money. You don’t, because no taxes will be due.
In case anybody was interested in conversion times when doing the BDR at Fidelity, both me and my wife contribute to the traditional IRA from our PNC checking account, and I was able to complete the conversion in 2 days, whereas my wife is still awaiting for the trad IRA money to settle, and the only difference is I have a taxable brokerage account at Fidelity while wifie doesn’t.
thanks Jim for teaching us this stuff! We currently have $40k in our Roth IRA’s (soon to be $46k) and all in small cap value.
Thanks for all you do. My wife worked in 2020 through November 1st and maxed out her 403b for 2020, and currently we have extra savings. If she wants to now make a 2020 IRA contribution (with plans for backdoor Roth IRA conversion), on Vanguard it asks about whether or not the contributor is employed.
It’s unclear how to answer this question. While she is not currently employed, she was during the majority of the 2020 tax year. So if she answers no, will she then not be permitted to make an IRA contribution, as one needs to be employed to contribute to this type of account? On the other hand, if she answers yes, it wouldn’t technically be true given the present tense version of the question. How would you approach this scenario?
The only reason to ask that question is to determine whether the contribution is deductible or not. I don’t know why Vanguard is asking, it’s none of their business. Vanguard never asks me that question when I do IRA contributions so I’m not sure why or how they’re asking you that.
You can always make an IRA contribution as long as you earned at least as much as the contribution (maybe that’s why they’re asking?), it’s just a question of whether you can deduct it or not.
You don’t need to be employed to make a contribution, but you (or your spouse) needs to have earned income to make IRA contributions.
Can you help with form 8606? I converted the rollover ira to roth and did a backdoor in 2020. I don’t know where to report the rollover conversion.
Which line are you having trouble with? You put how much you converted where it says to do so, lines 8 and 16 as I recall.
I convert $18K and did then a backdoor $6K. Do I put 18K on line 2 (basis) and $24K on line 8 and 16?
Explain what you mean by “did then a backdoor $6K”. If you mean you contributed $6K and then converted $6K, then you put $0 on line 2 (you had no basis, i.e. non deductible money in the account on the previous 12/31) and $24K on lines 8 and 16.
Dr Dahle,
I did backdoor Roth IRA last year at Vanguard. I got issued 1099-R for that. My CPA filed form 8606 but he is also reporting it on Line 4a of 1040 (IRA distribution). He states it is to be reported as 1099 R was issued.
He also reported it on form 5329 line 15 as excess contribution which generated additional tax 360x 2 ($720 married filing jointly). What is he doing wrong.?. He states he knows how to do it but somehow it does not seem right.
It doesn’t matter if it is on 4a as long as it isn’t on 4b! It won’t increase your taxes due.
There’s no excess IRA contribution though (right?, you didn’t contribute more than $6K/7K?) so I have no idea why he is reporting that. Income limits affect deductibility, not contribution amounts.
I had few dollars more than $6 ($6009) but CPA put the whole $6009 as excess contribution instead of just $9.
My question is that should he be filing form 5329 at all or not?.
I tried to argue but he leads me to other direction. I want to know I have a better understanding before I talk to some other CPA.
thanks for your time
Have the CPA fix his work. It’s not an excessive contribution if you only contributed $6K. It’s a $6,009 conversion. You should owe tax on $9 but not have to fill out 5329.
I just stuck with the late conversion. But my case might be a little unique. I made a 2020 traditional IRA on 1/6/2021 and did the conversion to Roth IRA on 1/8/2021 with Vanguard ( assumed it was for 2020 Roth conversion. Obviously I am wrong about this.). A few days, I checked the record and I was told that the Roth conversion is counted for the tax year 2021. To save me the trouble, I don’t plan to make any 2021 traditional IRA contribution any more since I can’t make any Roth conversion for the tax year 2021. What should I do? I looked at your example, I don’t understand how you can have to Roth conversion in 2021. Therefore, I don’t know how to solve my relative simple case. Could you give me some hand? Big THANKS!
I’d go back and make your 2020 contribution and do another conversion. You have until tax day to get it done. You can certainly do two Roth conversions in 2021. The 2020 contribution will go on your 2020 taxes and your 2021 contribution will go on your 2021 taxes. The conversion of $12K total will go on your 2021 taxes.
Thank you so much for such prompt response! I called the Vanguard yesterday and were told that the conversion was final since I did with their online tool ( I just don’t understand why the Vanguard doesn’t provide one option to select between 2020 and 2021 during the conversion.). And I noticed that the contribution limits of my 2020 has already been hit when I made my initial traditional IRA contribution on Jan. 6th,2021. Therefore, I guess I can’t go back and make the 2020 contribution and do another conversion. Today I watched the video you posted and looked the example for “Late Contribution to the Backdoor Roth IRA” again. It seemed to me that you make the 2021 traditional IRA contribution 6000 in 2021, since the 2021 contribution limits has been hit yet. And then you do that conversion right away for 2021. Then under the Rollover contribution, we will find 12000 dollar in 2021. 6000 out 12000 was from 2020’s IRA 6000 contribution I did on Jan. 6th,2021. The other 6000 of 12000 will be from 2021’s IRA contribution 6000 I will do on Sep. 10th,2021. Am I right? Thanks!
Yes, you can’t recharacterize conversions. You also can’t do a conversion in 2021 and call it a 2020 conversion. You can do that with the contribution though until tax day. If you already did a 2020 contribution, no, you can’t go back and do another one. Yes, you can do a $12,000 conversion in 2021.
Hi WCI,
Similar to a question above – our Roth is through Vanguard – they issued a 1099-R for 2020 showing our contribution as a gross distribution from IRA and therefore taxable. What do I do with this?
If box 2b is checked (as it should be) it’s no big deal. It’s obviously not taxable. If it isn’t checked, have them fix it.
Ok great, it looks like it is checked. So still submit 1099 form to our accountant? Or just have him do the 8606?
Yes, no, maybe so?
If I were hiring someone to do my taxes, I would give him all of my 1099s and have him do all the tax forms including the 8606s.
I hope that answers your question(s).
Hey all, I’m not sure what to do with this re pro-rata and form 8606:
-I opened an etrade account and did a Roth conversion in mid-2020, clearing out the traditional IRA account, just like we’re supposed to
-However, late in the year, etrade put $200 into the traditional IRA that I had cleared out, as some kind of promotion
So:
1) Do I need to report this on line 6 of form 8606, even though I didn’t contribute the money? (or where does this fit on 8606?)
2) When I do my 2021 contribution/conversion, should I just contribute $5800 in new money into the account, so I can rollover a total of $6000, and not exceed IRA contribution limits?
What a headache from free money!
1. yes. Line 6
2. No limits on rollovers, only contributions. So contribute $6,000 and convert $6,200. You’ll be pro-rated for 2020, but it’ll all work out by the 2021 taxes.
Got it, thanks!
WCI,
Thanks for this thread. My first foray in Turbotax for a while. I usually have someone do my taxes but I figured I would play around a bit with it this year but may still have it done elsewhere. Turbotax seems to insist this is a recharacterization:
From Turbotax —–
This means that you first contributed money to a traditional IRA, but then later moved your money to a Roth IRA. This is sometimes referred to as a “recharacterization.” A recharacterization such as this is different from a Roth conversion because your Roth IRA contribution is for the same year as the original traditional IRA contribution. So, the money would be both contributed to the traditional IRA and subsequently moved to the Roth IRA during the time period of January 1, 2020 until April 15, 2021 unless you file an extension in which case you would have until October 15, 2021.
This is under the “Tell us how much you transferred” section….they seem to use “switch” and “recharacterize” synonymously. Do you enter 0 in this portion? How do you get it complete the 8606?
Thanks
See if this fixes your issue:
https://thefinancebuff.com/how-to-report-backdoor-roth-in-turbotax.html
I’m really new at all this so be easy on me. In your example you take out all the money from your IRA so that you can roll it over, but what if you have put money in that account in prior years? Do you have to leave zero dollars in your IRA account to avoid penalty? Lets say I put 6k in an IRA account in a given year, then in another year I try to do the rollover with another 6k. Can I simply take out the 6k from the IRA that i want to roll over? It seems like it would leave you with a value in Line 6 on form 8606.
After reading other posts you seem to emphasize have zero in the IRA account in order to avoid the pro-rata rule. Does that mean in order to roll over into a roth account in some years you completely convert or dissolve ALL prior IRA funds including past years? I think when I read it the first time I assumed you meant you can’t have contributed other funds to your traditional IRA, SEP IRA, and simple IRA in that same year only.
Yes, the entire value must be zero including all prior contributions. I’m sorry if that wasn’t clear before. How could I have worded it so that wouldn’t be misunderstood?
You worded it fine, I think It’s more surprising to me that the pro-rata rule would penalize a contribution even if the existing traditional IRA balance had been sitting in an account for 20 or more years, but I guess those are the rules.
Yes.
If you put two $6K contributions in over 2 years, you can then convert $12K to a Roth.
I completed a direct rollover from my recently completed residency prudential (pretax) 403b into my vanguard Roth IRA on 1/11/2021. The former account withheld 20% prior to sending the check to vanguard. This rollover was a small amount, 2k ($1600 sent), as I was mainly contributing to Roth 403b during residency, and have already rolled that over to vanguard a couple months ago.
1.) When this is reported April 2022, will there be any underpayment consequence to ONLY having 20% withheld, verses whatever tax bracket I am in, or do they just tax the difference (say I owe 4% more taxes on the 2k if I am in 24% tax bracket)? Also whatever more tax I owe will only be on the original rollover amount (2k), not on any gains that are made on the rollover amount over the next year correct?
2.) This will not affect my ability to do a backdoor Roth in 2021 correct? And in terms of reporting both of these on the 8606, this added rollover seems to throw me off a little bit with how to fill it out
1. You don’t want ANY of it withheld if you can help it. You want it paid out of other assets if at all possible. Otherwise, your Roth is now smaller than it otherwise would be.
2. No, won’t affect it. Roth IRAs don’t count in the pro-rata calculation.
Ok I may have played with my money in a horrible way.
Here is what I did.
In Jan 2020, I deposited 6000 from my wife’s bank to TIRA at VG and then converted it to Roth. This was for year 2020.
I did the same in Jan 2021, for the year 2021.
So far, so good !
However, here are 2 things making it real fun.
1. in Dec 2020, my wife’s old employer’s 401k company said that they will no longer service the plan and sent a distribution check to us. At that time, I didn’t think of it much and told them to put the check in Vanguard’s name. It is approx 21,000. So in Jan 2021, after doing the above conversion, I rolled over those 21,000 to my wife’s vanguard TIRA.
Now as I am reading your blog,I think I should have rolled it over to a 401k instead. I realized that vanguard 401K doesnt allow rollovers. I wanted to make one at Fidelity, but the check had vanguard written over it and i doubt fidelity would have accepted it.
Now I am concerned about the pro rata rule, as my ‘contributions’ to TIRA are now 27,000 (I think for tax year 2021, I am hoping i will be ok for year 2020).
Am I understanding the problem correctly ? What are my options to avoid paying taxes ? Should i roll it over again to a 401K in Fidelity ?
2. My wife was an independent contractor in 2017 and opened a SEP IRA with Betterment with one time $1600 in 2018 and now it has $2100 and she has not contributed to that account since. We have been doing the $6000 trad to Roth IRA conversion every year as described above. But never really bothered with that money since.
My question is will that SEP ira be subject to pro rata rule for my 2020 taxes / backdoor Roth , even though the account is inactive since ? If so, whats the best stratergy for it ? Just open a I-401k at fidelity or something and transfer there ?
Please help me ! I feel like i messed up big time !!
edit – she is currently unemployed due to covid, if this helps ?
1. No, your contributions are $6K. Rollovers don’t count toward your contribution limit. Yes, you’re fine for 2020. For 2021, you have 11 1/2 months to figure out whta to do with that $21K. If you can afford the tax hit this year, the easiest thing to do is just convert it all into her Roth IRA. The alternative is roll it into another 401(k) your wife has access to.
2. This is a problem. Every conversion you’ve done is pro-rated due to that SEP-IRA. You probably need to refile all your taxes that you’ve done a Backdoor Roth on that you can still refile (2017, 2018, 2019). If that’s just 2020 and 2021, you’ll get pro-rated for 2020 but again, you can correct it just by converting the entire thing to a Roth IRA in 2021. A 1040X with a new 8606 isn’t a big deal though.
No, being unemployed due to covid doesn’t help anything other than maybe your income is lower so the tax cost on a conversion is lower.
Oh wow, that sounds scary. Can I just reduce my 2021 conversion and convert this sep ira to Roth to total 6000, instead of going through every year ?
Also , let’s say my balance went from 1600 to 2100 over 3 years , so assuming the numerator is in this range , does the denominator remain 5500 or 6000, or does it keep on increasing every year based on the money in my Roth account ?
It just sounds like a disaster where I will lose thousands.
Not sure what you’re talking about. Conversions don’t count toward your annual $6,000 contribution limit though if that helps.
also, i just realized, that i funded that SEP IRA with post tax dollars from my bank, and not with pre tax dollars. does it change anything ? sorry its a confusing mess by now.
You can’t fund SEP IRAs with post tax dollars, so not sure what you’re referring to.
I meant that when I opened my sep IRA, I did not use pre tax dollars , but deposited the money from my bank account after taxes.
But you took a deduction on your taxes, right? So it’s pre-tax money.
Jim. Thanks for bearing with me and giving me detailed advise.
So I consulted about this with my tax ‘advisor’. He tells me that there is no need to refile / amend any of the returns. But I have a feeling he is not understanding the issue at hand.
So as i see it, let me summarize this. And you tell me if I am doing it right.
Wife opened a SEP IRA in 2017 using post tax dollars (small amount $1700) and we deducted that amount from our MAGI. Since then she has converted $6k every year (2018-19-20-21) using this backdoor method (from bank to TIRA to Roth). But that SEP IRA remained as it is, increasing in balance as the stock market increased (for example 1800, 1900, 2100 and now 2200) (although no contributions were done from our end). We did *NOT*think about the pro rata rule while converting these $6k.
At this point, I was thinking can I just refile my 2017 returns (the year in which i deducted that SEP IRA initial contribution from my MAGI) ? Removing that deduction makes it post tax contribution ?
And I think, the other option is to amend all the returns for the years wife did backdoor Roth ? Now if I do it, my tax guy will make big bucks (sadly). If I do file it on my own , do i file just the amended 8606 and 1040 or the entire return ? Also I am assuming this does not affect state returns ? I have used creditkarma free service once in the year that I did file myself, otherwise I have used CPA. Is there a good recommended filing software for amended returns ?
Can you share a screenshot or a tutorial of how a 8606 amended looks like , especially if i have some SEP IRA contributions that are not zero and therefore subject to pro rata ? or guide me to a good link ??
Thanks, will really appreciate the help. And no Tax ‘advisor’ from next year hopefully.
additional side question – what happens if IRS checks and catches a mistake in my return ? What are the consequences , especially if i am filing myself without any cpa or additional protection from softwares ?
Well, you did conversions while you had a SEP-IRA. So all those conversions will be pro-rated. Nothing you can do about that now, but you can make sure you’re tracking the basis right so you don’t have to pay taxes on the basis twice. That’s the main point of refiling the taxes. You just need to make sure you told the IRS what you did. Now, if your tax person is telling you that you DID tell the IRS exactly what you did, then there is no need to refile.
If it affects how much you owed in state taxes, you should amend those filings as well.
An amended 8606 looks exactly like a regular one, it is just accompanied by Form 1040X. Here’s an example of 1040X.
https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/household-employees-and-the-1040x-kids-corner/
Your 8606, of course, will have the balance of that SEP-IRA on line 6.
If the IRS catches your mistake, it typically asks you to correct it. Maybe it sends you a check, maybe it asks you to send them a check, maybe they audit you. It just depends. But as a general rule, if you’re trying to do the right thing I’ve found the IRS to very reasonable (although slow) and they make about as many mistakes as I do.
Thanks WCI !!
Question – Your comment “but you can make sure you’re tracking the basis right ” – what does it mean exactly ? Does that pertain to line 2 in 8606 ? What should it be – the balance of my SEP IRA on dec 31 ?
Also, just realized that my tax guy might not have filed a 8606 every year. Can i just file it with my amended return ?
sorry if it sounds repetitive
Remember once you start getting pro-rated, some of that conversion is taxable and some isn’t. So later when you do the next conversion, the amount that wasn’t from the year before needs to go into the calculation. That’s why you should try to avoid being pro-rated, but you didn’t. So now you just need to keep records of what actually happened with the pro-ration each year. In essence, some of your SEP-IRA right now is post-tax dollars in the eyes of the IRS. The way you know how much is by what’s on the correctly filled out 8606s.
Yes, you’ll need to file a correct 8606 with a 1040X for each year. And get a new tax guy that actually knows how to do his job. It’s one thing to screw this up yourself. It’s entirely different to pay someone else to screw it up for you.
[Redacted – found the answer! Thanks!]
I just found out about the Backdoor Roth in the first few weeks of 2021. My employer allows for reverse rollovers to my 401(k), so I will be rolling money from an old IRA to my employer’s plan, but don’t know if I can still do that for the 2020 tax year.
I know I can do a backdoor ROTH up until April 15, 2021 for tax year 2020, but can I still do both a reverse rollover to a 401(k) and a backdoor ROTH for the 2020 tax year? Or would I have had to complete the reverse rollover to my 401(k) before December 31, 2020? Thank you.
Forgot to note that I will be contributing $6,000 to my emptied IRA (once reverse rollover completed to employer 401(k)), then rolling to a ROTH IRA one day later.
No. But you don’t need to. Because you won’t be doing a conversion in 2020. You only need to zero out your IRA balances by 12/31 of the year you do the conversion. If you do the conversion in 2021, you have until 12/31/2021 to zero out that IRA to avoid getting pro-rated.
What could I have written in the post above that would have made that more clear for you because I’m getting this question a half dozen times a week and I can’t figure out why.
Yeah, I know you can contribute to an IRA (then backdoor to Roth) up until April 15, 2021 for tax year 2020. But wanted to see if I can apply the reverse rollover for tax year 2020 as well before April 15th. Because if I want to contribute to my IRA (then backdoor to Roth), doesn’t the IRA account need to be empty first (via the reverse rollover)? Or will I still be able to do a backdoor IRA contribution for 2020, then do the reverse rollover for tax year 2021, and also make another backdoor contribution for tax year 2021? I feel like the reverse rollover has to be done first, then I can only make a backdoor contribution for tax year 2021 only. Basically I have to give up on trying to make a backdoor contribution for tax year 2020, because I was not able to execute the reverse rollover before 12/31/2020. That’s the part I’m confused about. I know I can do it for 2021 though. The April 15, 2021 deadline for 2020 contributions is what’s throwing me off. I don’t know if that date also applies to do a reverse rollover for 2020 as well.
No. You cannot do a rollover in 2021 and tell the IRS you did it in 2020. Contributions are the only thing where the IRS gives you until the next tax day to make a contribution for the previous year. You can’t do that for conversions, rollovers, reverse transfers, or anything else.
The only 12/31 that matters is the one in the year you did the conversion step for. So if you do the conversion step in 2021 (even if the money you converted was contributed in 2020 or 1990) then it is a 2021 conversion and the pro-rata calculation only applies on 12/31/2021.
Why have you given up on contributing for 2020? The only reason you would do that is if you did not understand what I just wrote above.
Yeah I was just worried that the money I would be contributing for 2020 ($6k) would get commingled with the funds sitting in my IRA (old pre-tax funds from a previous job) that I would be sending to my 401(k) via the reverse rollover. Looks like I can start the process to do the reverse rollover (applied for tax year 2021) now, let the money get pulled out, then make a contribution for 2020 to that existing IRA (then backdoor to my existing Roth—before April 15th), then make another contribution for 2021 (then backdoor again to the Roth) anytime during the rest of this year (or technically up to April 15, 2022). I guess I’m just trying to structure the transactions so it’s as clean as possible.
They will be commingled if you put them in the same IRA.
Your solution should work.
If I know my 2021 MAGI will be $129,000, in the phase-out range, so the regular ROTH contribution I’m allowed is $4,400, but I still want to maximize to the $6,000. Which option should I choose?
Option 1: Contribute $4,400 directly into ROTH IRA, and contribute $1,600 as non-deductible contribution into traditional IRA and immediately transfer to ROTH IRA (backdoor).
Option 2: Just do $6,000 backdoor now in Jan 2021.
Two concerns:
1. Option 1 allows me to periodically contribute and take advantage of dollar cost averaging, option 2 as soon as the $6,000 lands into ROTH IRA I would want to invest all of it right away, so I could potentially buy at a high point.
2. There are mixed info out there about this, but some people favor a regular contribution to a backdoor for the 5-year rule (10% penalty) on early withdrawal. For ROTH IRA withdrawal ordering, first in the order is regular ROTH contributions (not subject to 5 year rule), second is taxable conversions (each layer is subject to 5 year rule separately), third is nontaxable conversions/backdoor, fourth is earnings. There are mixed information out there on whether the third bucket of nontaxable conversions/backdoor is subject to the 5 year rule. Forbes and Motley Fools say yes the third bucket backdoor is subject to 5 year rule.
I don’t believe backdoor principal amount is subject to the 10% penalty on early withdrawal, after running through the entire Form 8606 and Form 5392 Additional Taxes on Qualified Plans (see examples on page 4), and the actual code here https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/26/1.408A-6, Q-5 (b), see second to last sentence.
(b) The 10-percent additional tax under section 72(t) also applies to a nonqualified distribution, even if it is not then includible in gross income, to the extent it is allocable to a conversion contribution, if the distribution is made within the 5-taxable-year period beginning with the first day of the individual’s taxable year in which the conversion contribution was made. The 5-taxable-year period ends on the last day of the individual’s fifth consecutive taxable year beginning with the taxable year described in the preceding sentence. For purposes of applying the tax, only the amount of the conversion contribution includible in gross income as a result of the conversion is taken into account. The exceptions under section 72(t) also apply to such a distribution.”
What’s your take on this?
I’d just do it all via the backdoor. That’s especially useful if your income ends up being higher than you think.
I have an IRA account from way back when I was in residency and has some initial pretax contributions but now mostly post tax contributions. How do I do back door Roth?
The same way as everyone else, except you need to do something with that IRA to avoid the pro-rata rule. Probably easiest to just convert the whole thing to a Roth IRA and pay taxes on any of the pre-tax money that went in there (as well as all of the earnings). But if you can’t afford that tax bill this year, it might not be an option.
Thanks and then what about the IRA by my wife that is ALL post tax.
The earnings would be taxable when converted, but the rest would not. That’s the sort of thing that is generally a no-brainer to convert ASAP.
Thanks. I checked and she has about 100,000 potential capital gain. Is it ok to do it in parts?
What do you mean okay? Legal? Yes. Will you still get prorated on a backdoor Roth if you do it over years? Yes.
Thanks. Can you please elaborate on prorate? How does it work?
As noted in the post above, if you have pre-tax money in a traditional IRA on December 31st of the year you do a conversion, your conversion will be pro-rated. For example, if you did a $6K conversion but still have $6K in the traditional IRA, you will pay taxes on $3K of your conversion and left in the IRA will be $3K in pre-tax money and $3K in post-tax money.