By Dr. Jim Dahle, WCI Founder
Setting up a Backdoor Roth IRA can be confusing, so I thought I’d put together a tutorial on the steps people can refer to when they go through this process. Let's get started.
Table of Contents
- What Is a Backdoor Roth IRA?
- Who Should Do a Backdoor Roth IRA?
- When to Do a Backdoor Roth IRA?
- Backdoor Roth IRA Pros and Cons
- Backdoor Roth IRA Tax Implications
- Backdoor Roth IRA Steps
- How to Fix and Prevent Backdoor Roth IRA Mistakes
- Backdoor Roth IRA FAQs
What Is a Backdoor Roth IRA?
Despite its name, a Backdoor Roth IRA is not an account; it is a process with two steps:
- Contribute to a Traditional IRA.
- Complete a Roth conversion.
If you understand the rules of both of these steps, putting them together is no problem.
Who Should Do a Backdoor Roth IRA
Remember that if you are a low earner you can just contribute DIRECTLY to a Roth IRA and skip this Backdoor Roth IRA process.
Roth IRA Limits and Conversion Rules
Low earner is defined as a Modified Adjusted Gross Income (MAGI) under a phaseout range in 2024 of $146,000-$161,000 ($230,000-$240,000 Married Filing Jointly). Some docs—like residents, employee dentists, part-timers, and even some medical attendings in the lower-paying specialties who are married to a non-earner—can just contribute to a Roth IRA directly.
Anyone who earns at least $7,000 ($8,000 if 50+) can contribute $7,000 ($8,000 if 50+) to an IRA [2024]. If your income is below a MAGI of $146,000-$161,000 ($230,000-$240,000 Married Filing Jointly), you can contribute directly to a Roth IRA. If you have a retirement plan offered to you at work and your MAGI is below $77,000-$87,000 ($123,000-$143,000 Married Filing Jointly), you can deduct your traditional IRA contributions. Since most readers of this blog have a retirement plan through their job and have (or soon will have) a MAGI over $240,000, they will find that they can't make direct Roth IRA contributions or deduct their traditional IRA contributions. Thus, their best IRA option is the Backdoor Roth IRA process, i.e., an indirect Roth IRA contribution.
Spousal IRAs
Married physicians should be using a personal and a spousal Roth IRA, and you will usually need to fund both indirectly (i.e., through the Backdoor). This provides an additional $7,000 each ($8,000 for each spouse that is 50+) of tax-protected and (in most states) asset-protected space per tax year, and it allows for more tax diversification in retirement. Tax diversification allows you to determine your own tax rate as a retiree by deciding how much to take from tax-deferred (traditional) accounts and how much from tax-free (Roth) accounts. Remember that IRA stands for INDIVIDUAL Retirement Arrangement, so even if the pro-rata rule (discussed below) keeps you from doing the Backdoor Roth IRA, it doesn't necessarily keep your spouse from doing so. Each spouse reports their Backdoor Roth IRA on their own separate 8606, so the tax return for a married couple doing Backdoor Roth IRAs should always include two Form 8606s.
Married Filing Separately
The contribution and deduction income limits are particularly low if you are filing your taxes Married Filing Separately (MFS). Both the ability to contribute directly to a Roth IRA and the ability to deduct a traditional IRA contribution if you (or your spouse) are eligible for a retirement plan at work phase out between $0 and $10,000. Basically, the best option for anyone filing their taxes MFS is the Backdoor Roth IRA process, i.e., an indirect Roth IRA contribution.
There is an exception to these rules if you do not actually live with your spouse. In that case, your ability to contribute directly to a Roth IRA phases out between a MAGI of $146,000-$161,000 in 2024. If you live separately and are not covered by a retirement plan at work, you can deduct a traditional IRA contribution no matter your income. You can still do a Backdoor Roth IRA process in these situations where your IRA contribution is either partially or completely deductible. The tax bill will be precisely the same: $0 when done properly. However, instead of having no tax cost for either the contribution or the conversion, your deduction on the contribution will precisely equal the tax cost on the conversion, resulting in that same $0 tax bill for the entire process.
Mega Backdoor Roth IRA
A Mega Backdoor Roth IRA is completely different from a regular Backdoor Roth IRA. Despite its name, you actually do a Mega Backdoor Roth IRA with a 401(k), not an IRA. It requires a 401(k) that accepts both after-tax (not Roth) employee contributions and allows for either in-service withdrawals (and thus conversions to a Roth IRA) or, more commonly, in-plan conversions. Using the Mega Backdoor Roth IRA process, one could put as much as $69,000 ($76,500 if 50+) [2024] per year into a Roth 401(k) (or possibly a Roth IRA in addition to your usual $7,000-$8.000 contribution). However, this process has nothing to do with the Backdoor Roth IRA process we are discussing in this post.
When to Do a Backdoor Roth IRA
Lots of people wonder about the timing of a Backdoor Roth IRA.
IRA Contribution Deadline
There is really only one deadline to meet with the Backdoor Roth IRA process. IRA contributions for a given tax year must take place between January 1 of the tax year and April 15 (even if you file an extension) of the following year.
Backdoor Roth IRA Conversion Deadline
The conversion step may take place at any time. It can take place the next day or even the same day as the contribution. I don't recommend it, but you can wait months, years, or even decades between the contribution and the conversion step. There is no deadline for Roth conversions. If you need to perform a rollover or a conversion of a traditional, rollover, SEP, or SIMPLE IRA in order to avoid the pro-rata rule, you have until December 31 of the year you do the conversion step.
When Should You Contribute and Convert?
You should do both steps as soon as possible. Many white coat investors do the IRA contribution step and the Roth conversion step the first week of January each year. This maximizes the amount of tax-free compounding that can occur on those dollars. Minimizing the time between contribution and conversion and doing both steps within the calendar year is not required, but it certainly simplifies the paperwork.
Want to really make your paperwork complicated? Contribute to your IRA each month and convert it each month. Then, you have 12 contributions and 12 conversions to keep track of each year. Seriously, though, if you make enough money that you have to contribute to your Roth IRA(s) through the Backdoor Roth IRA process, you make enough to do it at one time each year.
Can I Do a Backdoor Roth IRA Every Year?
Yes. My wife and I have done one every year since 2010 and do not plan to stop until we no longer have any earned income. It is just one of the investment chores we perform once a year.
5-Year Rule
One factor that may push you to do a Backdoor Roth IRA earlier is the five-year rule. Now, there are at least three five-year rules related to IRAs, but the main one to pay attention to here is the five-year rule after a Roth conversion. This rule determines whether the withdrawal of principal from the account prior to age 59 1/2 will be penalty-free. The five-year period starts on January 1 of the year you do the conversion, so it could be a little less than five years. Roth IRA principal generally comes out tax- and penalty-free (it is only the earnings that may be subject to penalties), but that is only the case after the five-year rule has been fulfilled.
In essence, if you do a conversion of a Roth IRA at age 51, you can then withdraw the principal tax- and penalty-free starting at age 56 rather than age 59 1/2. This can provide funding for living expenses to early retirees. If you do a Roth conversion at age 57, you still get access to that principal (and earnings) tax- and penalty-free at age 59 1/2. So, it's five years or age 59 1/2, whichever comes first.
There is also a completely separate five-year rule on IRA contributions, but this starts from the time you make your very first IRA contribution, not every contribution, so it should not apply to most early retirees.
Backdoor Roth IRA Pros and Cons
There are a lot of great things about the Backdoor Roth IRA, but it isn't all peaches and cream.
Pros of Backdoor Roth IRA
The main benefit of a Backdoor Roth IRA is that it provides you with another retirement account. Via the Backdoor Roth IRA process, you can continue to contribute to a Roth IRA even after your earnings rise above the income limit for direct Roth IRA contributions. Retirement accounts eliminate the tax drag that applies in a taxable, or non-qualified account, reducing your taxes and allowing your investment to grow at a higher rate so you can reach your goals sooner.
How much can that tax protection be worth compared to a taxable account? It depends on the return of the underlying investment, its tax efficiency, and the amount of time the money is left in the account. At my marginal tax rate, $10,000 earning 8% in a tax-inefficient investment over 50 years would grow to $469,000 in a Roth IRA but only $88,000 in a taxable account. More realistically, over 30 years, the use of a Roth IRA vs. a taxable account for a tax-efficient investment would still result in 29% more money.
Retirement accounts ensure simple estate planning. By using beneficiaries, that money does not go through the probate process, so your heirs get it sooner with less hassle, more privacy, and no cost. They can even stretch the tax-protected growth benefit for another decade after they inherit the account. Retirement accounts like a Roth IRA also provide substantial asset protection in most states, meaning that in the admittedly very rare event of a dramatically above-policy limits judgment that isn't reduced on appeal, you can declare bankruptcy and still keep what is in your retirement accounts. Roth money is tax-free forever, so by continuing to contribute each year, you can increase tax diversification in retirement.
Cons of Backdoor Roth IRA
Roth IRAs, even when you contribute via the Backdoor Roth IRA process, are still retirement accounts with all of their downsides. Retirement accounts limit the investments you can put in them and prohibit the use of margin investing. If you withdraw Roth IRA earnings prior to age 59 1/2 without an approved exception, you will owe a 10% penalty.
Due to the pro-rata rule (see below), the Backdoor Roth IRA process requires you to either convert or roll over into a 401(k) any traditional IRAs, SEP-IRAs, and SIMPLE IRAs you may have. If you have self-employment income, you will need to use a solo 401(k) instead of a SEP-IRA to shelter that income from taxes. Doing Backdoor Roth IRAs each year also adds one form (IRS Form 8606) per spouse to your tax return. If preparing your own taxes using tax software, it can be tricky to ensure the software reports the process correctly. If you do a Backdoor Roth IRA instead of (rather than in addition to) maxing out your tax-deferred accounts during your peak earnings years, that can also be a mistake that results in the accumulation of less money.
Perhaps most significantly, there are now two steps to getting money into your Roth IRA each year instead of just one. While I think the process is pretty darn simple, I am continually amazed at all of the unique ways that doctors manage to screw it up. Later in this article, I'll show you how to fix all of those screwups.
Is a Backdoor Roth IRA Worth It?
Yes! Most of the time. It really is just a little bit of hassle to do each year, although there may be some additional hassle the first year if you need to take care of another IRA first to avoid the pro-rata rule. There may be times when someone has a large traditional IRA they cannot afford to convert to a Roth IRA and cannot roll over into a 401(k) because they don't have a 401(k) at all, their 401(k) charges high fees, or because the IRA assets are invested in something they cannot invest in within a 401(k). If your employer-provided retirement account is a SIMPLE IRA or a SEP-IRA, the Backdoor Roth IRA process is also probably not worth it. Finally, some multi-millionaires don't want to bother with even the minor hassle of the Backdoor Roth IRA process because getting an extra $7,000-$16,000 a year into Roth accounts just isn't going to move the needle for them.
Backdoor Roth IRA Tax Implications
Roth IRAs are all about avoiding taxation on earnings, so naturally, there are lots of tax implications of this process.
Pro-Rata Rule
The most important tax implication to be aware of is the pro-rata rule. I would estimate that 90%+ of Backdoor Roth IRA screwups involve the investor having his or her conversion pro-rated. When you report a Roth IRA conversion on IRS Form 8606 (see below), there is a pro-rata calculation made. The numerator is the amount converted. The denominator is the total of ALL traditional, rollover, SEP, and SIMPLE IRAs, but not 401(k)s, 403(b)s, 457(b)s, Roth IRAs, or inherited IRAs. Therefore, it is critical that you DO SOMETHING with any IRA balance you have PRIOR to December 31 of the year in which you do a Roth conversion of after-tax money. Later in this article, I'll describe the exact options you have for what to do with this money.
Tax on Backdoor Roth IRA Conversion
Done properly, there is NO tax on a Backdoor Roth IRA conversion. Zero. Nada. Zilch. While the money you put into a Roth IRA (indirectly via the Backdoor in this case) was taxed when you earned it, it is NOT taxed when you contribute it directly to a Roth IRA or when you contribute it as a non-deductible IRA conversion or when you subsequently convert that money to a Roth IRA. In fact, it is never taxed again.
Do I Need to Worry About the Step Transaction Doctrine?
There used to be a concern that the IRS would have a problem with the Backdoor Roth due to an IRS rule called The Step Transaction Doctrine. This rule basically says that if the sum of a bunch of legal steps is illegal, then you can’t do it. Some wondered if this Backdoor conversion from a Traditional IRA to Roth was a legal transaction considering this doctrine. Those concerns, valid or not, are no longer an issue. The IRS clarified in early 2018 that no waiting period is required between the contribution and conversion steps of the Backdoor Roth IRA. It has essentially given its blessing on the whole process. Waiting just makes things more complicated on the 8606, as discussed in Pennies and the Backdoor Roth IRA.
How to Report a Backdoor Roth IRA on TurboTax
Reporting the Backdoor Roth IRA properly on TurboTax is unfortunately even more complicated than filling out Form 8606 by hand. The key to doing it right is to recognize that you report the conversion step in the Income section but you report the contribution step in the Deductions and Credits section. Since you generally do the income section first, you report the conversion before you report the contribution, even though you actually did the contribution before the conversion. At the end, you want to look at the Form(s) 8606 that TurboTax generates, just like you would check up on one filled out by an accountant.
More information here:
How to Report a Backdoor Roth IRA on TurboTax
Backdoor Roth IRA Steps, Tutorials, and Walkthroughs
In this section, we'll explain exactly how to do the Backdoor Roth IRA process and how to report it on your tax return, whether you file on paper or using tax software. You can easily walk through these Backdoor Roth IRA steps at Vanguard, complete a Backdoor Roth at Fidelity, or knock out a Backdoor Roth IRA at Schwab, three of the most popular brokerage/mutual fund companies.
How to Perform and Report on Paper the Backdoor Roth IRA Process
While it is really just a two-step process, it is best to think of it as a six-step process. These steps don't all have to be done in order (it might be easier to do Step 3 before Step 1), but they will all need to be done.
Step #1 Contribute to a Traditional IRA
Make a $7,000 ($8,000 if 50+) non-deductible traditional IRA contribution for yourself and one for your spouse. You can use the same traditional IRA accounts every year—they just spend most of the time with $0 in them. Most fund companies, including Vanguard, don’t close the account just because there is nothing in it. I do this every January 2.
Step #2 Leave the Money in Cash
An account like a traditional IRA is not an investment, of course; just like a suitcase isn't clothing. When putting money in a traditional IRA, you also have to tell the IRA provider how you want to invest. In this case, just leave the money in cash, whether a money market fund or a settlement fund. At Vanguard, the settlement fund is the Federal Money Market Fund. You really don't want to have any gains (or especially any losses) between the contribution and conversion step because it makes the paperwork more complicated. The best way to minimize the gains is to leave it in cash (and then of course to do the conversion as soon after contribution as possible to minimize the “pennies” issue).
Step #3 Convert the Traditional IRA to a Roth IRA
Next, convert the non-deductible traditional IRA to a Roth IRA by transferring the money from your traditional IRA into your Roth IRA at the same fund company. If you don’t already have a Roth IRA there, you’ll need to open one. This can be done in a minute or two online at Vanguard, and it is essentially the same process as opening the traditional IRA. I do this the very next day after I make the contribution. It is very straightforward. When you transfer the money, the website will throw up a scary banner saying something like “THIS IS A TAXABLE EVENT.” That’s true. It is taxable. But the tax bill will be zero since you’ve already paid taxes on the $7,000 and couldn’t claim your contribution as a deduction because you make too much money. You can do Step 3 basically immediately after Step 1. Some companies will let you do it the same day. Other companies will make you wait until the next day or even a week or so. But there is no reason to wait months to do it.
Step #4 Invest the Money
Now you will need to select an investment for the money in your Roth IRA. If you already have an investment in there, you can simply add $7,000 to it. Otherwise, you will need to select an investment in accordance with your written investing plan. If you do not have a written investing plan yet, you can leave the money in cash or put it into a Target Retirement 2050 fund or another lifecycle fund until you get that part of your financial plan worked out.
Step #5 Beware of the Pro-Rata Rule
Get rid of any SEP-IRA, SIMPLE IRA, traditional IRA, or rollover IRA money. The total sum of these accounts on December 31 of the year in which you do the conversion step (Step 2) must be zero to avoid a “pro-rata” calculation (see line 6 on Form 8606) that can eliminate most of the benefit of a Backdoor Roth IRA.
You can get rid of these IRA accounts in three ways:
- Withdraw the money (not recommended, as the money would be subject to tax and/or penalties, not to mention DECREASING your tax-advantaged/asset-protected investment space).
- Convert the entire sum to a Roth IRA. Only recommended if it is a relatively small amount and you can afford to pay the taxes out of current earnings or taxable investments with relatively high basis.
- Roll the money over into a 401(k), 403(b), or individual 401(k). 401(k)s don’t count in the aforementioned pro-rata calculation. Some physicians even open an individual 401(k) at Fidelity, eTrade, or Vanguard (rollovers from traditional IRAs to solo 401(k)s is a recent addition to Vanguard) in order to facilitate a Backdoor Roth IRA.
Step #6 Fill Out IRS Form 8606 Correctly
The next part of the Backdoor Roth IRA is done months later when you (or your accountant) fill out your IRS Form 8606 on your taxes. Don't forget to do it or there is a $50 penalty. Remember that you need one form for each spouse: INDIVIDUAL Retirement Arrangements. You need to double-check this to make sure it is done right, even if you hire a pro to avoid screwing up this part. Advisors have told me that they have had to help clients fix dozens of these that tax preparers have done improperly. If you don't do it right, you'll pay taxes twice on your Backdoor Roth IRA contribution.
Page 1 (below) shows a “distribution” from your non-deductible IRA. Since the money was already taxed, the taxable amount on your distribution is zero. Line 1 is your non-deductible contribution. On Line 2, your basis is zero because you had no money in a traditional IRA on December 31 of last year (if you've been carrying a non-deductible IRA for years, this may not be zero). Line 6 is zero in a typical year. Note that TurboTax may fill this out a little differently (may leave lines 6-12 blank), but you end up with the same thing. Line 13 is the same as line 3, so the tax due is zero.
Here's an example from the 2023 version of Form 8606.
On page 2 (below), you are showing the Roth conversion. I'm not really sure why you have to do this twice (since you're just transferring the amounts from lines 8 and 11 and then subtracting them), but that's what the form calls for. As you can see, a Roth conversion of a non-deductible traditional IRA contribution without any gains is a taxable event; it's just that the tax bill is zero for it.
When double-checking your tax preparer's work, you want to concentrate on lines 2, 14, 15c, and 18, and make sure they're a very small amount, like zero, and not a very large amount, like $7,000. The form can get more complicated if you are doing other Roth conversions at the same time or if you made a contribution for the previous year (i.e., made your 2022 contribution in 2023). See below for more details.
Notice how there is no place on the form to put the date when you made the contribution or the date when you made the conversion. It isn't on the form your IRA custodian sends to the IRS (1099-R) either.
Do It All Again Next Year
You do not have to wait any period of time between the contribution and conversion. Each year, I make my Traditional IRA contribution on January 2, then convert it to a Roth IRA the next day or within a few days. That gets my investment money working as soon as possible and simplifies the record keeping. Vanguard won’t let you do it the same day (sometimes other providers will), so I have to wait one day anyway. Occasionally they'll make you wait up to a week. If you find you have a few pennies left in the account and are worried you'll get pro-rated, take a look at this post: Pennies and the Backdoor Roth IRA.
More information here:
How to Do a Backdoor Roth IRA with Vanguard
How to Do a Backdoor Roth IRA at Fidelity
How to Fix and Prevent Backdoor Roth IRA Mistakes
In this section, we're going to talk about how to fix and prevent common mistakes in the Backdoor Roth IRA process. To better organize these mistakes, we will break down the process into the six very clear steps used above and then will explain possible errors with each step and what to do about them.
6 Steps to Successfully Contribute to a Backdoor Roth IRA
- Step 1 – Contribute to traditional IRA ($7,000, $8,000 if 50+ for 2024).
- Step 2 – Invest the money in a money market fund.
- Step 3 – Move money from a Traditional IRA to a Roth IRA (i.e., a Roth conversion).
- Step 4 – Invest in your preferred investment (typically a stock, bond, or balanced index mutual fund).
- Step 5 – Ensure you have no money in a traditional IRA, SEP-IRA, or SIMPLE IRA on December 31 of the year you do the CONVERSION step.
- Step 6 – Report the transactions correctly on your taxes by filling out Form 8606.
Seriously. That's it. If you can do a cholecystectomy, you can do this. If you can work up a pulmonary embolus appropriately, you can do this. If you can manage hypertension well, you can do this. If you can fill a cavity, you can do this. Super easy.
However, people still manage to screw up on EACH of those six steps. Let's go through the mistakes people make, step by step.
How to Fix Backdoor Roth IRA Mistakes
Step 1 Error – Contributing Directly to a Roth IRA
An error that commonly occurs with a first Backdoor Roth IRA is that people simply don't realize that their income is too high to make a direct Roth IRA contribution. Instead of doing it indirectly (i.e., going through the Backdoor), which is no big deal even if you're under the limit, they contribute directly to a Roth IRA. Then they realize their Modified Adjusted Gross Income (MAGI) is over $146,000-$161,000 ($230,000-$240,000 Married Filing Jointly) for 2024. Now what?
Enter the Recharacterization
If you have made this error, now you have to recharacterize the Roth IRA contribution to a traditional IRA contribution. This basically makes it as though you never contributed to a Roth IRA but contributed to a traditional IRA instead. You usually have to call your IRA provider to get this done, but it's no big deal. In this section, I'll walk you through the details of how to do it.
You have until the due date of your tax return to do this (including extensions). So, if you made an IRA contribution in January of 2023 for the 2023 tax year, you have until October 15, 2024, to do a recharacterization. There's no penalty or anything to do it. You can do the opposite as well if you contributed to a traditional IRA but meant to contribute directly to a Roth IRA.
Bear in mind that starting in 2018, you can no longer do recharacterizations of Roth CONVERSIONS (not contributions). This eliminated the “Roth IRA Conversion Horserace” technique for tax reduction.
Until only a couple of years ago, I had thought there was a waiting period after a recharacterization to then reconvert the money to a Roth IRA. However, that rule was only for recharacterizations of conversions, not contributions. There has never been a waiting period for a recharacterization.
Any gains that occur before the final conversion are, of course, fully taxable at your ordinary income tax rate in the year of the final conversion.
The Income Limit
The first thing to determine is whether this post even applies to you. If your income is below a certain amount, you can just contribute directly to a Roth IRA. That amount depends on several things. First, it is a MODIFIED Adjusted Gross Income (MAGI). That number is very similar to your Adjusted Gross Income (AGI). Remember how tax Form 1040 works.
The first income line you come to is line 7b, your “Total Income.” When people think about income, this is generally what they think of. The third income line on the form is line 11b. This is your “Taxable Income.” This is what your tax bill is actually calculated from. It is basically your total income minus all of your deductions. In between those two, on line 8b, is another income, your “Adjusted Gross Income.” This is “the line” that people are talking about when they use the phrases “above-the-line deduction” and “below-the-line deduction.” If it comes out before your AGI is calculated, it is an above-the-line deduction. These are deductions such as self-employment tax, self-employed retirement plans, self-employed health insurance premiums, HSA contributions, student loan interest, alimony, tuition, and any IRA deductions. If it comes out after your AGI is calculated, it is a below-the-line deduction. These are EITHER your standard deduction OR your itemized deductions, like mortgage interest, state/local/property taxes, and charitable contributions. A MAGI is just a slight tweak to your AGI.
Below are the MAGI limits for direct Roth IRA contributions [2024]. If your MAGI is below the first number, you can just contribute to a Roth IRA directly. If your MAGI is over the second number, you cannot contribute at all. If your MAGI is between the two numbers, you can make a partial direct contribution (most shouldn't bother with this, just do it all through the Backdoor).
- Married Filing Separately (and lived with spouse for at least part of the year): $0-$10,000
- Married Filing Jointly: $230,000-$240,000
- Single or Head of Household: $146,000-$161,000
If you think you'll be anywhere close to that first number, do yourself a favor and just make your Roth IRA contribution indirectly, i.e., through the Backdoor (contribute to a traditional IRA and then convert that contribution to a Roth IRA). Since 2010, there has been no income limit on Roth conversions and there has never been an income limit on traditional IRA contributions, just your ability to deduct them.
How does a MAGI differ from an AGI? It's a very slight difference. Bear in mind that there are other MAGIs out there. We're only talking about the one that affects Roth IRA contributions here. But to get your MAGI, you simply take your AGI, subtract some income from it, and add back in some other income to it. The worksheet showing you how to do this is Worksheet 2-1 in Publication 590.
Basically, you subtract income from a Roth conversion and you add income from IRA deductions (not sure why you'd have this), student loan interest (if you are using this worksheet, you probably don't have this), tuition deduction (you probably don't have this), a couple of rare deductions for foreign income/deductions (you probably don't have these), some savings bond interest you probably don't have much of, and some employer-provided adoption benefits. For most people, your MAGI = your AGI since all of these deductions are pretty rare for the folks worried about this limit for direct Roth IRA contributions. So, focus on your AGI. That means if you contributed directly to a Roth IRA but late in the year realized you probably should not have, one easy fix is to get your AGI below that limit by contributing to an HSA or a self-employed retirement plan like an individual 401(k) or SEP-IRA. Note that giving a bunch of money to charity is NOT a solution to this problem because that is a below-the-line deduction.
How to Do an IRA Recharacterization
If you can't get your MAGI low enough, you will have to do an IRA recharacterization. As far as the IRS is concerned, a recharacterization is as though you never made the Roth IRA contribution at all but made a traditional IRA contribution instead. You don't report a recharacterization separately; you just report a traditional IRA contribution. Keep in mind as you read on the internet about recharacterizations that there used to be two types of them—a recharacterization of a Roth IRA CONTRIBUTION and a recharacterization of a Roth IRA CONVERSION. The second type was outlawed in 2018, but the first one, the one we're talking about today, is still perfectly legal. If you decide you want to undo a Roth conversion these days, you're simply out of luck. Here is how you do a recharacterization of a Roth IRA contribution:
- You tell Vanguard (or wherever your IRAs are) to recharacterize the Roth IRA contribution to a Traditional IRA contribution.
Yup. That's it. The brokerage takes care of the rest. You can read all about all of the rules in Publication 590 Chapter 1 if you want, but that's basically what they say. Don't believe me? Fine. Here are the IRS instructions:
How Do You Recharacterize a Contribution?
To recharacterize a contribution, you must notify both the trustee of the first IRA (the one to which the contribution was actually made) and the trustee of the second IRA (the one to which the contribution is being moved) that you have elected to treat the contribution as having been made to the second IRA rather than the first. You must make the notifications by the date of the transfer. Only one notification is required if both IRAs are maintained by the same trustee. The notification(s) must include all of the following information:
- The type and amount of the contribution to the first IRA that is to be recharacterized.
- The date on which the contribution was made to the first IRA and the year for which it was made.
- A direction to the trustee of the first IRA to transfer in a trustee-to-trustee transfer the amount of the contribution and any net income (or loss) allocable to the contribution to the trustee of the second IRA.
- The name of the trustee of the first IRA and the name of the trustee of the second IRA.
- Any additional information needed to make the transfer.
In most cases, the net income you must transfer is determined by your IRA trustee or custodian.
See what I mean? It's just a phone call. Any earnings that the account had in between the contribution and the recharacterization just go over with the contribution. No big deal.
You have until your tax filing date to do this. Most of the time, that's April 15 of the next year. However, the IRS is even more lenient than that. You actually can do this for an extra six months after your tax filing date, but you will have to refile your return.
Where Do You Report a Recharacterization?
If you hire somebody else to prepare your taxes, you can skip this section. If you do it yourself, you'll need to make sure you report this correctly. According to Pub 590, you report it on our old friend Form 8606.
Pub 590 says this:
Actually, that's really misleading. If you read Form 8606, you will see that the only time it ever mentions a recharacterization is to tell you NOT to put it on the form.
So, what is Pub 590 talking about? They're talking about this section in the 8606 instructions:
Reporting recharacterizations.
Treat any recharacterized IRA contribution as though the amount of the contribution was originally contributed to the second IRA, not the first IRA. For the recharacterization, you must transfer the amount of the original contribution plus any related earnings or less any related loss. In most cases, your IRA trustee or custodian figures the amount of the related earnings you must transfer. If you need to figure the related earnings, see How Do You Recharacterize a Contribution? in chapter 1 of Pub. 590-A. Treat any earnings or loss that occurred in the first IRA as having occurred in the second IRA. You can’t deduct any loss that occurred while the funds were in the first IRA . . . Report the nondeductible traditional IRA portion of the recharacterized contribution, if any, on Form 8606, Part I. Don’t report the Roth IRA contribution (whether or not you recharacterized all or part of it) on Form 8606. Attach a statement to your return explaining the recharacterization. If the recharacterization occurred in 2023, include the amount transferred from the traditional IRA on 2023 Form 1040, 1040-SR, or 1040-NR, line 4a. If the recharacterization occurred in 2024, report the amount transferred only in the attached statement, and not on your 2023 or 2024 tax return.
The bottom line is that you just report this recharacterized contribution on Form 8606 as if it were the regular old non-deductible traditional IRA contribution that you should have made in the first place. You also need to include a statement. What should your statement look like? I would write something like this:
“To whom it may concern:
I made a 2024 Roth IRA contribution of $7,000 on March 13, 2024, because I didn't know about the whole MAGI limit thing when I made the contribution. After becoming smarter, I recharacterized $7,137.14 (original contribution plus earnings) to a traditional IRA on November 4, 2024. Thank you for helping our country fund its government. You're the best.
Hugs and kisses from your favorite taxpayer,
James Dahle”
Seriously, it doesn't say what has to be on the statement, just that there is one “explaining the recharacterization.” You don't even have to tell them why you did the recharacterization. If you had a loss in the account between contribution and recharacterization, no big deal. It's still as though you made a $7,000 contribution to a traditional IRA and THEN it lost money. If you were able to deduct the contribution (you probably can't) you would get a $7,000 deduction. The IRA provider may also send you a Form 5498 (which has the recharacterized amount on line 4), but you don't actually do anything with it when you file your taxes. It's just an informational return.
Reconverting the IRA
Here is where it gets interesting. You've now fixed your mistake in the eyes of the IRS, going from an illegal Roth IRA contribution to a legal traditional IRA contribution (that is probably not deductible for you). But you aren't done with what you meant to do, which is put money into a Roth IRA. You now need to do a Roth conversion. You do it just like you normally would as if you had contributed originally to the Traditional IRA. You can do it the very next day if you like. You can probably even do it the same day; just make sure there is a paper trail showing the money was actually in the traditional IRA at some point. There used to be a waiting period after a recharacterization before you could do a Roth conversion on that money. But that waiting period only ever applied to the recharacterization of a Roth CONVERSION (which was no longer allowed starting in 2018) and NOT the recharacterization of a Roth CONTRIBUTION. So, there is no waiting period. Just reconvert convert it and go on your merry way.
I hope this information helps you fix your mistake. Just do your Roth IRA contributions through the Backdoor going forward, and you won't have this problem again.
Step 2 Error – Not Investing in a Money Market Fund in the Traditional IRA
What happens if you LOSE money in between the contribution and conversion step? This problem is easily avoided by using an investment like a money market fund that does not go down in value for that time period. But some people fail to do so and end up losing money. When they work their way through their IRS Form 8606, they discover they have basis left over that they can then carry forward indefinitely for years! No big deal; it just makes your paperwork more complicated. Perhaps at some point in the future, you'll do a Roth conversion of tax-deferred money and this carry-forward basis will reduce the tax on that event.
What if you MADE money in the account between contribution and conversion? This actually happens most of the time, so I wrote an entire post on it called Pennies and the Backdoor Roth IRA. Technically, any money earned between the contribution and conversion step is fully taxable at ordinary income tax rates in the year of the conversion. If it is less than 50 cents, you just ignore it. If it's more, you report it on your 8606 and pay taxes on it.
If it is still in the traditional IRA, either do another tiny Roth conversion or leave it there until you do next year's Backdoor Roth IRA process. Either is fine. If you were smart and just used a money market fund and did the conversion as soon as your IRA provider allowed it (usually less than a week and sometimes as early as the next day), this won't be much money and there won't be much tax due.
Step 3 Error – Forgetting to Do the Conversion
If you forgot to do the conversion step for eight months afterward, it could be a huge gain on which you're unnecessarily paying taxes. No way to fix this one, just pay your “stupid tax” and move on.
Step 4 Error – Forgetting to Invest the Roth IRA Money
Even worse than paying taxes on a huge gain is not getting the gain in the first place because you left the money sitting in cash for months. No way to fix this one either. Your “stupid tax” this time comes in the form of opportunity cost. Just get the money invested ASAP to stop the cash drag. Maybe you even got lucky and the market went down in between contribution and investment so now you get to buy low.
Step 5 Error – The Pro-Rata Rule
Some of the most common questions I get are from people who make a late contribution to a Backdoor Roth IRA. What do I mean by late? You are allowed to make an IRA contribution AFTER the calendar year ends. In fact, you have until Tax Day, usually April 15 unless you get an extension of up to six months. While it is to your advantage to contribute to retirement accounts as quickly as possible so that money can start compounding in a tax-protected way, I understand that we all have lots of good things to do with our money and sometimes this gets pushed back into the next calendar year. All it really does is complicate your paperwork a bit.
For example: if you made your 2023 IRA contribution in April 2024, instead of reporting both the contribution and the conversion on your 2023 taxes, you would report only the contribution there. The conversion would be reported on the taxes for the year you did the conversion, i.e., your 2024 tax return due in April 2025. Your 2023 IRS Form 8606 becomes a little simpler and your 2024 IRS Form 8606 becomes a little more complicated. Not a big deal if you can follow the simple instructions.
What confuses people, however, is the pro-rata rule. This is the rule that says you need to empty your traditional IRA by December 31 of the year you do the conversion. Since these folks have never filled out a Form 8606 (or apparently read the instructions), they assume that for a 2023 contribution they need to have a balance of $0 at the end of 2023, even if they didn't do the conversion step until 2024. That's simply not the case. The pro-rata rule isn't applied until the year of the conversion, i.e., December 31, 2024.
Emptying the IRAs
How do you empty those IRAs? You usually have two choices.
- Do a Roth conversion of the whole thing. This is what I generally recommend for small IRAs where the tax bill on the conversion would not be too onerous. It is quick and easy, and it increases the amount of tax-free assets you have.
- Roll the money into a 401(k) or 403(b), either that of your current employer, that of a past employer, or to your own individual 401(k) if you are self-employed. This is usually a better option if you have a large IRA where you would rather deal with the hassle than pay the tax bill during your peak earnings years.
How large is large and how small is small? It's going to vary by the person and how much disposable cash they have. Most would consider an IRA under $10,000 to be small and an IRA over $100,000 to be large. In between, it's a personal decision as to which would be better for you.
What If You Didn't Empty the IRA?
What if you screwed this one up? Your Backdoor Roth IRA conversion step just got pro-rata'd. There is a tax bill associated with that because most of your conversion was of tax-deferred money rather than post-tax money like it was supposed to be.
The fix for this is going to vary by the individual, but the easiest fix is to simply convert the entire IRA to a Roth IRA now, so you end up getting all your post-tax money into that Roth IRA. Another possible fix is to figure out a way to separate your basis in that IRA, roll the tax-deferred money into a 401(k), and then convert the basis left behind in the IRA.
Do yourself a favor and just empty the darn IRA by December 31. Keep in mind that this is usually not an instantaneous process, so don't put it off until you're on holiday break at the end of the year.
Step 6 Error – Screwing Up the Tax Forms
Both individual taxpayers and professional tax preparers screw up IRS Form 8606 all the time. In fact, some of them haven't even heard of a Backdoor Roth IRA. (Incidentally, this is one of the best questions to ask while interviewing a potential tax professional—”How many Backdoor Roth IRAs did you help last year?”)
The usual fix to this error is to file a 1040X (Amended Tax Return) and a new Form 8606. You can do this for the last three years if necessary. If you didn't file Form 8606 at all, you'll definitely want to do this. The key is to check lines 15c and 18 on Form 8606. They should both be a number very close to zero if the form is being completed correctly.
The tax preparer should NOT be filing Form 5439. If you did Steps 1-5 right, this form probably doesn't belong in your tax return.
A lot of people wonder about the 1099-R sent to them by their IRA provider and worry that it was done wrong and that it will cause them to pay taxes they shouldn't have to pay. Sometimes the form was filled out wrong, but mostly this is just a lot of anxiety. What gets people anxious is finding something on Line 2a “Taxable amount.” As long as the box on Line 2b is also checked “Taxable amount not determined,” you're golden. Don't worry about it. If it is not, have the IRA provider send you a new, correct form—either with $0 in 2a or the box in 2b checked (usually the latter). Here's what mine from a few years back looked like from Vanguard:
Note that Box 2b is checked, even though a taxable amount of $5,500.07 is being reported to the IRS.
Again, if you're not sure how to enter this into TurboTax, check out my TurboTax tutorial.
Still Confused About the Backdoor Roth?
Need more help with a Backdoor Roth IRA? I wish Congress would just lift the rule against direct Roth IRA contributions for high earners and save us all this hassle, but who knows if that will ever happen.
- If you made your contribution after the end of the year, check out Late Contributions to the Backdoor Roth IRA.
- Here's a step-by-step tutorial for doing a Backdoor Roth IRA at Vanguard.
- Here's a step-by-step tutorial for doing a Backdoor Roth IRA at Fidelity.
- Here is a step-by-step tutorial reporting the Backdoor Roth IRA in TurboTax.
- Here is my prior post on 17 Ways to Screw Up Your Backdoor Roth IRA.
- You can hire a professional to help you—either a good financial advisor or a good tax strategist can assist.
- You can also ask your peers for help on the WCI Forum, the Private WCI Facebook Group, and the WCI Subreddit.
Late Contributions to the Backdoor Roth IRA
While it is “cleaner” to make your contribution and your conversion all in the same calendar tax year, you can make your contribution up until your tax filing date of the next year. The key to filling out the 8606 correctly when you make a contribution after the calendar year is to recognize that the contribution step is reported for the tax year and the conversion step is reported for the calendar year. So imagine you did the following during the calendar year 2023:
- Made a 2022 IRA contribution (reported on 2022 8606)
- Did a Roth conversion of that contribution (reported on 2023 8606)
- Made a 2023 IRA contribution (reported on 2023 8606)
- Did a Roth conversion of that contribution (reported on 2023 8606)
Your forms would look like this:
2022 Form 8606 (Only Have to Fill Out Part I)
Note that all this serves to do is report basis for the next year. No tax is due. Since no conversion step was done during the calendar year 2022, you only have to fill out lines 1-3 and 14.
2023 Form 8606 (Must Fill Out Parts I and II)
Note that you've got to do all of Part I plus Part II for this year because you did the conversion step, unlike last year (2022). Let's go through this line by line.
Form 8606 – Part I
- Line 1 – That's the money you contributed for 2023 (which would be $6,500).
- Line 2 – This is your basis. Since you made a contribution for 2022 but didn't do a conversion until 2023, your basis is $6,000.
- Line 3 – $6,500 + $6,000 = $12,500.
- Line 4 – Remember this is asking about 2024, not 2023, and since you won't make the mistake of doing your contribution late again, this will be zero.
- Line 5 – $12,500 – $0 = $12,500.
- Line 6 – This is the line that triggers the pro-rata issue. Even though you made a 2022 contribution, you did so AFTER December 31, so this line would still be zero if you filled it out for 2022, which you didn't because you didn't do a conversion in 2022 and got to skip lines 4-13. But this is the 2023 form and since you converted your entire traditional IRA, this will be $0.
- Line 7 – This doesn't include conversions. Since you didn't take any money out of your traditional IRA this year except the conversion, this is $0.
- Line 8 – You converted a total of $12,500 this year to a Roth IRA, so $12,500.
- Line 9 – $0 + $0 + $12,500 = $12,500.
- Line 10 – $12,500/$12,500 = 1.
- Line 11 – $12,500 * 1 = $12,500.
- Line 12 – $0 * 1 = $0.
- Line 13 – $12,500 + $0 = $12,500.
- Line 14 – $12,500 – $12,500 = $0.
- Line 15a – $0 – $0 = $0.
- Line 15b – You didn't take money out of an IRA to help you survive a disaster, so $0.
- Line 15c – $0 – $0 = $0.
Part II
- Line 16 – Line 8 is $12,500 so $12,500.
- Line 17 – Line 11 is $12,500 so $12,500.
- Line 18 – $12,500 – $12,500 = $0.
Backdoor Roth IRA FAQs
Can I still do a Backdoor Roth IRA for last year?
You have until tax day (generally April 15, but as late as October 15 if you file an extension) of the following year to make your traditional IRA contribution. There is no deadline for the Roth conversion step; it can be done at anytime. Make sure you fill out the paperwork properly according to the section above about late contributions.
Can I do last year's IRA contribution and this year's IRA contribution at the same time and convert them at the same time?
Yes. Just remember to report last year's contribution on last year's Form 8606 and this year's contribution and the conversion on this year's Form 8606.
Does my 401(k), 403(b), 457(b), Roth IRA, or inherited IRA count toward the pro-rata calculation?
No. Only traditional IRAs, rollover IRAs, SEP-IRAs, and SIMPLE IRAs count. See line 6 of Form 8606 for details.
What if it is a separate IRA? Does it still count?
Yes. All IRAs count toward the pro-rata calculation.
What should I do with my rollover or traditional IRA to avoid pro-ration?
If it is small, convert it to a Roth IRA along with this year's traditional IRA contribution and pay the tax due on it. If large, try to roll it into your employer's 401(k) or if you have self-employment income, into your individual 401(k).
I got pro-rated. What now?
The easiest solution is to convert the entire IRA, SEP-IRA, or SIMPLE IRA that caused the pro-ration and is now composed of both pre-tax and after-tax money. That is also the most expensive solution. A harder solution that may save you some taxes involves isolating the basis in that IRA by rolling the rest of the account into a 401(k) and then convert just the basis to a Roth IRA.
I am leaving my employer. Should I roll my 401(k) or 403(b) into a traditional IRA? If not, what should I do with it?
If you put it into a traditional IRA it is going to cause any future Backdoor Roths to be pro-rated. Better options include leaving it where it is; rolling it into your new employer's 401(k) or 403(b); rolling it into your individual 401(k); or, if it is small, just converting the whole thing to a Roth IRA.
How much can I contribute to a Roth IRA via the Backdoor Roth IRA process?
In 2024, you are allowed to contribute $7,000 ($8,000 if 50+) per year for you and $7,000 ($8,000 if 50+) for your spouse. This includes all contributions to traditional and Roth IRAs. Rollovers/transfers do not count toward the annual contribution limit.
What should I invest the money into?
While in the traditional IRA for a day or two, leave it in cash. Once it is in the Roth IRA, invest it according to your written investing plan. If you don't have one, get one, but in the meantime it would be a good idea to put it into a lifecycle fund such as a Vanguard Target Retirement Fund.
Can I use the same traditional and Roth IRA each year or do I need new ones?
You can use the same ones each year.
The Backdoor Roth IRA process leads to more tax-free retirement account money for doctors and other high-income professionals. If you follow the simple steps outlined above, you will pay less in taxes, boost your returns, facilitate your estate planning, and increase your asset protection. Most members of The White Coat Investor community do these every year, and you should too.
What do you think? Are you doing Backdoor Roth IRAs? Why or why not? Any questions about it?
[This updated post was originally published in 2014.]
Hello, Thank you for such a great article.
I have a old traditional “non deductible” IRA (started in 2007). Contributed $4000 for that year and never added money into that. Value of this IRA account is $4800. For 2019 I want to contribute $6K to this account and then immediately convert the entire account $10,800 to Roth IRA for Tax year 2019 and doing this is in 2019. Which 8606 example should I follow for filling the taxes correctly?
Also, for my wife, we have a “deductible” IRA that she had opened in 2003 with initial contribution of $3000. Never contributed after that. The total value today of this account is $6700. I want to also add another $6K to her account and convert entire Account into a Roth IRA for Tax year 2019. For some personal reasons this conversion will happen and contribution may happen in Jan 2020. Which 8606 example should I follow for her for filling the taxes correctly?
Thank you so much for helping out with your knowledge.
ANPrinceton
You should have been doing 8606s for the last 12 years. Not sure what the best way to correct that is. I can’t imagine the IRS will make you pay taxes on the whole $4K that you shouldn’t have to pay on, but you’d better have some documentation to prove your basis. But yea, toss the $6K in there, convert $10,800, and pay taxes on the $800 with the conversion. Just fill out all the lines right as per the instructions (line 2 is usually the trickiest, your line 2 is $4K).
Same thing for your wife, but line 2 is $3K. The rest are pretty easy to get right.
Thank you so much for the reply.
I do have the tax returns that I filed in 2007 (with form 8606) and tax returns for my wife in 2003. I was not sure that I had to file 8606 even when I was not contributing all these years.
My wife will contribute and convert in Jan 2020 which is after the 12/31/2019. At 12/31/2019 she will have $6700 in her “deductible” IRA. Hers was a “deductible” IRA with a gain of $3700. Being deductible and not doing in the calendar tax year will that be still same as mine?
Thanks again,
ANPrinceton
So her IRA balance needs to be zero on 12/31/2020 if she does the conversion in 2020. But if it’s all tax deductible, her basis is $0.
Thank you. Is there a closest example I can follow for form 8606 for her situation. As she will be contributing ($6K) for tax year 2019 and converting the entire $12,700 into Roth in Jan 2020. Both these actions will be after 12/31/2019 for the tax year 2019. Hence my confusion.
Thank you again for such great resource,
ANPrinceton
So the only thing that goes on the 2019 8606 is the contribution. It’s the 2020 one that will be interesting.
Thank you.
So when do we actually pay taxes on the $6700 (all from her “deductible” IRA) ? In tax year 2019 or 2020? For her the plan is to contribute ($6K) and convert all the money ($12,700) in Jan 2020 all for tax year 2019.
And if you could specify what the nuances will be for her 8606 for 2019 and more importantly 2020. That will be very helpful.
Also the plan is to contribute another $6K for tax year 2020 in Jan 2020.
Thanks,
ANPrinceton
You pay taxes when you file your taxes for the tax year in which you do the conversion. So if you do a conversion in 2020, you pay the taxes for that on your 2020 taxes, which are due April 15, 2021.
Thank you. This helps a lot. I am going to try filling out the 8606 and take guidance from the forums here.
Again! Thank you for running such a useful resource.
ANPrinceton
Hello
I was wondering if you could help me with the following:
PM
Ok well I rolled over the i401k to a roll over IRA and then rolled it over to a roth IRA this year.
I also made a nondeductible contribution.
I did not anticipate keeping the i401k since I was working for an employer. I will be working for an employer again in 2020 so will not be doing locum tenens for a whole year anyway. The fact that I wanted to find someway to surmount the successor rule was due to the fact that I found myself again doing locums this year since I had to leave my employer job early due to unforeseen circumstances.
I want to pay the conversion to reap the benefits in 5 years despite the tax implications and I am currently living in a tax free state. I thought about doing it later when I made no income or just dividend income but I do not have enough in my nonretirement accounts to ever make this happen let alone being able to afford health insurance if I had to pay the full premium if not working in a year. Also I would end up paying for since my retirement accounts are growing alot.
I was wondering if i could ask about the roth IRA conversion on form 8606
IRA roll over amount 100,000 2019 (rolled over this year from i401k severed using form 5505)
Nondeductible IRA contribution 6000 for 2019
Total amount rolled over 106000
Line 1 6000
Line 2 100,000
Line 3 106,000
Line 4 100,000
Line 5 6000
Line 6 0
Line 7 0
Line 8 106000
Line 9 106000
Line 10 0.06
Line 11 6000
Line 12 0
Line 13 6000
Line 14 106000
Line 15 a 0
b 0
c 100000
Part II
Line 16 106000
Line 17 6000
Line 18 100000
I should only be paying 100,000$ in taxes since the nondeductible amount was 6000$ for this year.
Does this look correct the way I filled it out.
Can I pay taxes on this amount now, what form do I file to pay the amount or determine the amount I owe based upon my tax bracket.
Again I want to be clear, I did not want to split this up into smaller amounts my tax liability will not change year to year and I plan to retire in the next 5 years.
No, you don’t have any basis in the IRA. Your rollover was all money that you got a tax deduction for, right? So line 2 is $0 not $100K.
Hello
I want to send you a copy of the forms so you can see it.
No I would need to pay taxes on $100K (the roll over IRA to roth IRA) and not on 6K post taxes IRA (nondeductible)
How does that change the form.
100k was in a 401k rolled over into an IRA and then Roth IRA in the same year
6K max for simple IRA post taxes
If you want to take a stab at the form by line number typed in here, I can try to help. If you don’t even want to do that much by reading the form and the 8606 instructions, you should probably hire a professional to do your taxes for you, in which case no point in me doing anything. It’s really not too bad if you just follow the 8606 instructions. If it spits out that you owe taxes on $100K at the end, you likely did it just fine.
Remember a SIMPLE IRA is not the same thing as a traditional IRA, it is a specific type of retirement account.
Hello
In addition to a 401k rollover can you do a 6K simple IRA post taxes (everyone is entitled to this despite contributions to other plans)m can you do a simple posttax IRA rollover and are you allowed to contribute 6K to a posttax IRA once per year.
Do you know there is a difference between a regular old traditional IRA and a SIMPLE IRA?
Hello
Sorry you are right.
I meant as you indicated correctly above in your post you can contribute for 2020 6K to a traditional IRA (not bound by income limits) or 6 K to a Roth IRA (this one is bound by income limits). I assume this is in addition to the max amount you may contribute to your solo 401k 57,000 if under age 50 for 2020. I assume then you can convert this amount over to a roth if you choose that for the same year.
I was curious if this was correct. Again sorry about the multiple questions. I was also curious to know about the successor plan rule. I closed my solo 401k account this year after converting it to a roth ira along with the traditional ira I opened up less than 12 months ago.
I assume other than an employer sponsored plan (non-solo 401k) and opening up a traditional ira there are no options but to wait the full 12 months as per Vanguard
Other options I saw were ESOPs, SEPs and SIMPLE IRAs, 403(b) plans, and defined benefit plans but these are difficult to set up for a sole propietorship medical practice.
I’m not clear on what you’re asking if anything. Yes, your first paragraph is all correct although your last sentence is not clear what you are asking. You can certainly convert an IRA each year, but whether you can convert a 401k depends on the plan.
Hi, Thanks so much in advance for all your help!
During residency, I automatically had part of my residency pay deposited into a Valic account into a 401(a) FICA alternative plan. At the end of residency, I transferred the money (~13,000$) to Vanguard into a rollover IRA which then I converted/transferred all of that money into my roth IRA account, which I already had with vanguard. I recently did a back door Roth so I was wondering do I have to fill out my 8606 form differently in any way or just follow the guidelines as above in the original post? Thanks again!
Just follow the directions. Line 2 will be $0.
I contributed $6,000 to my IRA on December 27, 2019. However, Vanguard states that there is a 7 calendar day hold on the funds and that they are unavailable to be transferred or converted to my Roth IRA, also with Vanguard, until January 3, 2020. How will this impact my taxes and reporting? I’m guessing the contribution will still be in 2019 but the rollover to Roth will be considered in 2020, so I will need to fill out the 8606 with that in mind, correct?
Also, are transferring funds from the IRA to Roth accounts the same as converting? They sound interchangeable but just want to be sure. These are separate and distinct from contributing directly to a Roth IRA via a direct deposit or check, correct?
Finally, I’m curious as to how you were able to make a deposit into the IRA and convert the next day without a 7 day calendar hold? This is my first time attempting the backdoor IRA, so not sure if I selected the wrong deposit option (bank account ETF transfer) to fund the IRA or what, so any advice or tips would be appreciated. Thanks for all that you do!
The Roth conversion will go on the 2020 8606, that’s correct. Not a huge deal, just slightly more complicated paperwork. No more tax will be due. Yes, transfer from traditional IRA to Roth IRA = Roth conversion.
Next time do it earlier in the year. I do my 2020 Backdoor Roth IRA later this week.
So I did my first traditional IRA and back door Roth conversion in early December 2019. Every thing went well initially. My accounts are in Fidelity and I did 6k$ contribution to a tIRA and converted the entire amount to Roth IRA leaving 0$ balance in any other IRA accounts. So 12/31 they sneaked in 1.04$ dividend payment into my tIRA account. I converted this amount to my Roth IRA on 1/2020. Can anyone shed some light how this will affect the prorata calculation and tax filing for 2019/2020? Anyway better way to handle this or avoid this complication in the future?
You’ll get pro-rata’d and owe tax on $1. No biggie. Just fill out the form right.
Do it earlier in the year so you can move that $1 to the Roth before the end of the year.
This also happened to me as a first-time backdoor Roth converter. I have what may be a silly follow-up question about this. No matter when I do the traditional IRA contribution and Roth IRA conversion in 2020, this is still likely to happen at the end of the month (i.e. a $6000 contribution and conversion in February will still get me a ~$1.10 dividend at the end of February in the traditional IRA money market) so, should I actually just contribute $5998 initially in anticipation of this dividend so that I don’t convert >$6000 into the Roth?
No. There is no limit on how much you can convert. There is only a limit on how much you can contribute. So contribute $6K. Then convert $6000 + change.
Hello, I just want to be sure that I have set up my Fidelity account to be able to automatically transfer $500 per month of money from my checking account to my traditional IRA. When the site allows me to, I can transfer the $500 from the traditional to Roth IRA then invest it how I wish?
Thank you
You’re going to do 12 Roth conversions this year? Seems onerous. Yes, you can do that, but I’d try to do all $6K at once if I were you.
My husband is the physician and I’m just the one trying to figure this all out!!! And we are late to the game, unfortunately. We both have traditional IRAs plus he has a 401K through his employer. Do we need to each open an new IRA for contributions going forward? Meaning, we wouldn’t want to contribute $6000 to our existing IRA because then we would have to roll over the entire amount, correct? The balance must be 0? Is it okay if we have other IRAs that still have money in them? I hope that all makes sense.
Sounds like you both need to do an IRA rollover.
No. You need to clean out all traditional, rollover, SEP, and SIMPLE IRAs by December 31st. The IRS looks at all your IRAs as one big IRA.
And remember that IRA stuff is INDIVIDUAL. You report each Backdoor Roth IRA on a separate form 8606 and just because one person gets pro-rata’d doesn’t mean that other does too unless they also have an IRA.
Thanks for your help. I’m really clueless with this stuff so my apologies. My husband has a traditional IRA and a Roth IRA at one company, and a 401K through his employer. Should I rollover his traditional IRA to his 401K before contributing the $6000 for backdoor roth IRA? Am I correct that I don’t need to worry about the Roth IRA he already has? And then for myself, I have a rollover IRA and Roth IRA as well at Vanguard. Do those need to be moved?
I see now that you said rollover IRAs need to be moved. I don’t have a 401K to contribute to. What would my options be for that money? I have $40,394 in my rollover IRA. Can that be moved to my husband’s 401K? Or what would another option be?
No, you can’t move it into your husband’s 401(k). All retirement accounts are individual, not joint. So you can either convert it all to a Roth IRA and pay the taxes (? $15K ?), you can start a business and start a solo 401(k) and roll it in there, or you can just not do Backdoor Roth IRAs for you.
Yes, you should rollover his traditional IRA (well, minus the basis you just created in it) to his 401(k). Then if you like, you can use the SAME IRA to make a 2020 contribution and then transfer/convert that 2020 contribution to his existing Roth IRA.
No, the existing Roth IRA does not count toward the pro-rata rule.
Your Roth IRA does not count toward the pro-rata rule, but your existing rollover IRA does. That needs to either be converted to a Roth IRA or rolled over into a 401(k) or all your Roth conversions will be pro-rata’d.
Slowly getting a better understanding on all this! Thank you so much for your help! We are almost ready to roll on doing the conversion to our Roth IRA accounts for 2020… quick question… we still need to contribute for 2019 but since our traditional IRA accounts were not $0 at the end of 12/31/19… should we just not move that $12K over to the Roth? And instead convert it to our 401K plans for 2019 only? I wasn’t sure how it would affect us if we moved the 2019 $12K over to the Roth if we had a balance at the end of 2019 in our traditional IRA accounts.
It’s okay to make the 2019 contribution now. Just make sure they’re zero by 12/31 the year you do the conversion step.
Interesting. So, I can convert 2019 now… and also 2020?
And 2018 and 2017 and 2010. There is no limit or deadline for a conversion, only contributions.
Hello
Thank you for all your help. Read through all the posts so far.
Quick question
Traditional IRA nondeductible no income limits in terms of being able to create one regardless of income as long as you at least have 6000K of earne d income for the year and you used a qualifying 401k or similar plan for the year, correct?
I assume if deductible counts toward MAGI income? (i.e. no other retirement plan for year or under income threshold for it to be deductible)
The 6000K Traditional IRA is in addition to the max amount you can put into a 401k, one limit does not affect the other, max out on both, correct?
Would you recommend creating the traditional ira at the beg or end of the year if you plan to convert to a roth ira? Wouldn’t pay more if your investments do well in traditional ira and you have to pay more taxes on it at the end of the year when you convert it or since it is presumed to be post tax money no fees? Not sure how this works…
Finally if you convert the traditional ira nondeductible (assume for income purposes) to a roth ira does it follow the 5 year year rule for tax free distributions or do you need to wait until age 59 1/2?
Thanks
Not sure if this part of this forum but
Uk Canada, France, Belgium, Hungary honor US Roth IRA agreement per financial advisor to be tax free in those countries as well
Can you do an example with roth ira conversion with traditional ira and money in a roll over ira so we can see how this works
You read through 2000 posts? I’m impressed.
Yes. Anyone with $6K in earnings (or a spouse with enough earnings to cover that $6K in addition to their savings) can contribute.
Not sure what you’re asking about deductible. If you can’t deduct it, then yes, it counts toward AGI. If you can, then it doesn’t. There are several different MAGIs.
Yes, in addition to the 401k. Totally separate limits.
Beginning. I do both contribution and the conversion the first week of January. More time for compound interest to work.
Yes, 5 year rule AND age 59 1/2 rule. Whichever is later.
If you have a $45K deductible IRA and a $5K non-deductible IRA and do a $5K conversion, you will actually be converting $500 of the non-deductible IRA and $4500 of the deductible one. You’ll owe taxes on $4500.
Hello
I want to hit a final point with this conversion
If I am under 59 1/2.
I converted 90% of the money for a roll over IRA and 10 % from a nondeductible traditional IRA here is what I understand
-If I try to withdraw any of the money before 5 years I will be a pay 10% penalty not a tax since I already paid taxes on the amount
-If I withdraw any money earned (interest) such as a distribution, i.e. total roth ira value-contributions before age 59 1/2 then I will get taxed even if I have waited 5 years correct?
Thanks
https://www.kitces.com/blog/understanding-the-two-5-year-rules-for-roth-ira-contributions-and-conversions/
Can traditional IRA funds be rolled over into an employee-provided 457 without any pro rata consequences? I’m trying to zero out my traditional IRA so that I can do the backdoor conversion to a Roth IRA.
Alternatively, my traditional IRA balance is only $5500 so I could roll it over into my Roth IRA and take a little hit.
What’s the better idea here?
No. Just into 403bs and 401ks.
I’d just convert a $5500 IRA and pay the taxes.
finished residency in july. I’ve been contributing the maximum to a roth over the past 5 years. I did not contribute this year because my income was going to exceed the limitations. (i now know i should have contributed lump sum during calendar year 2019 and converted jan 2020 to make easier paperwork)
If i’d like to now contribute for 2019 and 2020 should i do this in separate transactions?
Will i be able to navigate these forms doing my taxes through turbo tax or H&R block?
My wife has a tIRA that has 500 on dec 31 2019. Will i have to use pro rata rule for her contributions for 2019?
Yes, two separate transactions, then you can do the conversion together.
https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/late-contributions-to-the-backdoor-roth-ira/
Yes, Turbotax etc can handle it.
Contributions aren’t pro-rata’d, only conversions. If the conversion is in 2020, then you need to zero out the tIRA by the end of 2020.
I’m not sure I’m following for her contributions…
On dec 31 2019 she had $500.00 (pre-tax in traditional ira)
She will contribute $6000 to traditional IRA for 2019 and $6000 for 2020 and convert total to roth this month.
Assuming we take the disbursement sometime this year of the $500 and pay ordinary income tax on it (applied to 2020 tax return) the pro rata rule wont apply since on Dec 31 2020 the traditional IRA balance will be zero?
When filling out 2019 taxes, she we will be over the income limit for roth IRA, would have had pretax money in the traditional IRA at the end of the year (2019), but still contributed to back door roth? How would this not alert for pro rata rule?
Why are you taking a disbursement? Roll $12,500 into the Roth IRA and you’ll owe taxes on the $500. You only need to zero out the account by the end of the year in which you do a conversion, not the year for which you are making the contribution.
I just realized her account is actually a “rollover IRA” with $500 pretax (instead of traditional IRA).
1. Can I make the conversion from this existing rollover IRA?
2. If so, would I add $12,000 to her existing rollover IRA account and convert the total sum of $12,500 into her Roth? Wouldn’t this be over-contributing to the Roth by $500?
3. I don’t exactly understand where to move this $500 to “zero” the account by the end of the year? If its not over-contributing how exactly do I pay taxes on it?
1. Yes, but you’ll need to convert the whole thing and you’ll owe taxes on the $500. A rollover IRA is exactly the same as a traditional IRA.
2. $12,000? You mean a 2019 contribution of $6000 for her and a 2020 contribution of $6000 for her? Yes.
3.Just convert it.
Thanks WCI for all of your wisdom on Roth IRAs. So, one key point that I didn’t find on this website is the Employer sponsored Roth accounts available. I work in an academic center (as an EM physician) and our institution has a 403b and 457 accounts available as BOTH pre-tax and post-tax(roth) contributions. There is no income limit for these since they are employer sponsored! We are allowed to contribute up to 19.5K for 2020 to both accounts (one as a pre tax and one as post tax)
After working here for almost 7 years I just learned about this randomly from a colleague. I thought that the only way for high income earners to contribute to a Roth was a conversion. As more EM docs are going into employee/employer relationships (vs independent contractor etc), something to be aware of. Thanks,
You didn’t find anything on the website on Roth 401(k)s? Really? Which search bar did you use?
https://cse.google.com/cse?cx=partner-pub-3400277571907334:4856943070&ie=UTF-8&q=roth+401k
I agree that employees need to get their 401(k)/403(b)/457(b) plan documents and actually read them so they know what their options are.
I’m in a bit of a panic, so I’m hoping someone knowledgeable can help. I did my first backdoor Roth with fidelity (for 2019). I made sure I transferred my fidelity t-Ira into another account (federal retirement tsp), so t-Ira had a 0 balance. I just realized Walgreens transfered everyone’s 401k to Fidelity on 12/31/19, including the old one I had from when I worked with them. What problem is this going to cause me? Did I just break the pro-rata rule? What’s my best solution going forward?
If the 401k is at Fidelity, no problema. If that account at Fidelity is an IRA, your conversion will be pro-rata’d if you did it in 2019.
Hello
If you convert traditional IRA to Roth IRA can you take out the contributions immediately without penalty. This is post tax IRA.
Can you contribute 6K max to traditional IRA if you max out your 401k plan? Also can you max the traditional IRA out even with a deferred compensation plan?
Can you convert a deferred compensation plan to a roth ira?
No. There’s a 5 year waiting period after a conversion.
Yes.
Yes.
Depends, but not usually.
Thank you so much for these very clear explanations and patiently answering all of our questions! I want to just confirm that I’m not missing anything. I have an old rollover IRA with $2800 that’s just been sitting at Fidelity for years, not really even invested. I want to get rid of it and start using a backdoor Roth. So would it be best/most streamlined to:
(1) add $6k to this existing account now for 2019/report on 2019 taxes
(2) add $6k to it again anytime this year for 2020/report on 2020 taxes
(3) convert the whole thing, $14800 to Roth anytime this year/report on 2020 taxes
And then as long as I’m at $0 in the rollover on 12/31/20, I will just pay taxes on the $2800. Am I missing anything? Would it make more sense to put the $2800 into my 401K at Fidelity instead, to save a little on taxes now? Would it make more sense to start a fresh TIRA vs using this old one?
Thank you so much in advance!
Thank you so much for these very clear explanations and patiently answering all of our questions! I want to confirm that I’m not missing anything before I take action. I have an old rollover IRA with $2800 that’s just been sitting at Fidelity for years, not really even invested. I want to get rid of it and start using a backdoor Roth. So would it be best/most streamlined to:
(1) add $6k to this existing account now for 2019/report on 2019 taxes
(2) add $6k to it again anytime this year for 2020/report on 2020 taxes
(3) convert the whole thing, $14800 to Roth anytime this year/report on 2020 taxes
And then as long as I’m at $0 in the rollover on 12/31/20, I will just pay taxes on the $2800. Am I missing anything? Would it make more sense to put the $2800 into my 401K at Fidelity instead, to save a little on taxes now? Would it make more sense to start a fresh TIRA vs using this old one?
Thank you so much in advance!
You’ve got it.
I’d just convert it rather than bothering with a $2800 rollover.
Where is the 2019 8606 form?
A quick Google search didn’t turn it up. Here’s the draft instructions though:
https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-dft/i8606–dft.pdf
Frankly, it really doesn’t change much year to year. You can probably use a 2018 form if you simply cannot wait on the IRS to give you the form before you file.
Thanks for the insightful information! I have a predicament that I was hoping you could help with. My wife and I file jointly but I’m the only one who has income (primarily reported on a W2). My salary is on the cusp of the $203K Roth IRA Contribution threshold. I don’t feel safe contributing directly to a Roth, as any decent bonus would put me over the threshold and I would end up doing a Roth IRA conversion back to a traditional ira. So I figured I would be better safe than sorry and just contribute to the traditional ira and then use the backdoor Roth IRA process. Here are some questions that I hope you’d be willing to share your expertise on:
1). Your #1 Backdoor Roth IRA mistake is people making multiple transactions and you mentioned that anyone who has to follow this process should have enough money to plunk down $6K at one time. Unfortunately, this isn’t my case. I would feel more comfortable making $1K contributions and converting them next day (six times a year for a total of 12 transactions). Does this complicate my end of year tax paperwork because I split it up into multiple transactions?
2). My wife doesn’t have a job but is on my tax return as joint filing. Can I still deposit $6K for her too? (Following the same process as #1 above) Or does she need to have her own W2 (for example) to prove she made at least $6K under her SSN?
3). Say I did risk it and contributed directly to a Roth IRA then I discovered I’m over the contribution limits. I would then have to convert back to a traditional IRA. Does that prevent me from then doing a backdoor Roth IRA in the same year? Phew…. talk about confusing.
1. No. It just complicates your life in that you have to do 12 transactions instead of 2.
2. Yes. That’s called a spousal IRA. No income needed for her as long as you have enough to “cover” her contribution. Be aware it’s a separate IRA since the I in IRA stands for Individual.
3. I wouldn’t risk it. It’s a much bigger pain than just doing it through the Backdoor in the first place. My first 1 or 2 Backdoor Roth IRAs weren’t actually necessary it turned out. But it still worked fine. Everyone can do a Backdoor Roth IRA (as long as no pro-rata issue).
Thanks! One last question: it’s apparent to me that Schwab will let you put money into your Traditional IRA and then convert the funds to a Roth IRA minutes later. Is that a suggested approach or should I wait at least one day? Thanks.
I have gotten so much differing advice from my accountant and a financial advisor that I am confused about something that seems relatively straightforward. My husband and I both have traditional IRAs to which we contributed for 6 years with after-tax contributions only. We paid tax on all of the money that went into these traditional IRA’s. We would like to start with backdoor Roths this year. Would we also be able to convert the traditional IRA’s to Roths? Would there be any tax on these, either capital gains or income tax? If so, how would we calculate the tax? Any references for filing of the tax forms would be helpful. Thank you so much!
Yes. Ordinary income taxes on any gains on those contributions. So if your marginal tax rate is 37% and you have $8000 in gains, then 37% * $8000.
I’m loving the advantage of the backdoor roth, though not necessarily the hassle. I’m also getting sick of the sheer number of accounts my husband and I each have in different places and am really working to consolidate as much as we can into Vanguard. So, if I roll over a 401k into Vanguard and don’t want to do a Roth conversion (we really shouldn’t have an RMD problem… mostly, though our RMDs will at some point be more than our salary/spending peak in the next 20 years) then I can’t do the Backdoor anymore. But if our 401k allows for roth contributions – can we just do that instead, and then just periodically pull the roth 401k into our regular Vanguard Roth as we switch jobs so we don’t end up with a Roth RMD? Isn’t that effectively the same thing, plus we could theoretically put in, say, 10k into the roth 401k instead of 6k?
Yes, that is an option. What you’re missing out on is the additional contribution space of having another retirement account. So instead of being able to put $19.5K (or whatever) into the 401(k) plus $12K into Roth IRAs, you can now only contribute $19.5K.
Hi and thank you for all of the content on the site. Im sure in all of the years that you have been talking about this that it has been mentioned so I apologize in advance for not being able to find it in the thousands of posts!
My wife had $25k in a traditional IRA all of which is pre-tax contributions. I opened a Roth and converted this this so the funds are now in the Roth creating a taxable event on the ($25k). She has no other IRAs and the traditional had a zero balance as required on form 8606 at year-end 2019.
The step of depositing $6k contribution in the traditional IRA and converting is where my question is.
Where is the $25k taxable event recorded (form 8606 or other like 1099-R)? And wouldn’t the $6k contribution/conversation for 2019 be subject to proration even if the balance of her traditional IRA at year-end 2019 was zero?
Line 8 on form 8606 says “ Enter the net amount you converted from traditional, SEP, and SIMPLE IRAs to Roth IRAs in 2019. Also enter this amount on line 16.”
If the $6k was after-tax (Line 1, line 5 on 8606), values for Dec 31 2019 were 0 on line 6, and line 8 on the 8606 form is the total converted for 2019, wouldn’t this $6k then be prorated (line 10)?
Is there a separate tax form to record the first conversion ($25k) and then use form 8606 for the $6k after-tax contribution and conversion as to not be subject to proration?
Separately, I rolled my larger traditional IRA into my companies 401k and thank the content of this site for helping me in this process.
Lines 8 and 16.
No. What’s to prorate? You converted everything.
Line 10 is $6000/$31000 But that’s not where the pro-ration happens. Just keep working your way down the form and it’ll work out.
Line 11 = $31000 * 6000/31000 = 6000
Line 12 = 0
Line 13 = 6000
Line 14 = 0
Line 15a = 0
Line 15b = 0
Line 15c = 0
Line 16 = 31000
Line 17 = 6000
Line 18 = 25000
You owe taxes on 25000. No proration. No separate form.
Thanks! I was not including the $6k with the $25k original conversation, for $31k total, which was my error for line #8.
Thanks again for the content on the site.
Pleasure to help.
After doing my back-door transfer last week, I was a bit frustrated to find that Vanguard left behind $0.43 in my tIRA account after I selected “transfer all shares” into my Roth IRA. When I went in yesterday to try to transfer the final $0.43, Vanguard doesn’t even recognize that there is any money in the tIRA. When I get to the “Where is the money coming from?” screen, it shows my tIRA as having $0.00, yet clearly on the master Accounts page, it shows it having 43 cents. Yes, it’s only cents, but I’m a type-A periodontist and this will nag at me—especially because I’ll have the minor pro rata issue at year’s end. I guess I’m doomed to a year of sleepless nights (jk), unless anyone has words of wisdom? Many kind thanks.
So you’re frustrated that Vanguard pays you interest on your money? There are places that won’t do that. 🙂
Just convert the $0.43 now. No biggie. You say Vanguard won’t let you, which is weird. I haven’t had that particular issue. Maybe try again in a a few weeks and if it still won’t let you, give them a call.
But even if it sits there and you get “pro-rata’d” from it, it rounds down to $0 so it won’t go on your 8606.
what would you advise for someone who has performed the backdoor roth for 3 years BUT forgot to fill out the form 8606 to file for the IRS until reading your article now?
File 1040Xs with an 8606 for each year.
Hi,
I’ve been performing the Backdoor Roth Conversion approach for 3 years, and every year I re articles to ensure I’m doing this correctly. Can you please provide reassurance! Thank you.
I own a Traditional and Roth IRA (Vanguard). Each month, throughout the year I contribute to my Traditional IRA. I use post-tax money. Each month, as soon as the money is deposited into the Traditional account, I convert it to the Roth (I convert all of the money). By the end of the year, I have contributed the max to my Traditional account (2019, $6,000). I never leave behind any money in my Traditional (not each month or at the end of the year…$0 balance).
1. I keep reading that in order to perform a Backdoor correctly, I need to be moving money from my non-deductible Traditional IRA to Roth. Just to be clear, when opening a Traditional IRA, was I suppose to specify if I wanted to open a deductible or non-deductible IRA? I thought the way the IRS “knows” that it’s a non-deductible IRA was based on how I filed my taxes. Is this correct? When filing my taxes, and it asks me how much deductible IRA contributions I made for 2019, I say $0. By answering this way I am designating my Traditional IRA as a non-deductible Traditional IRA, correct?
2. As I understand, and have read many times before, just but clarifying…the Total Basis of my Traditional IRA should always be $0 correct? Especially if you follow the method of my contributions and conversions as described above.
3. When I am filing the state portion of my tax return (Massachusetts), there are a few entries for my Roth IRA that I am unsure how to answer. It states, “Enter the portion, if any, of distributions from IRA/Keogh plans, qualified charitable IRA and Roth IRA conversion distributions for you that were previously taxed by Massachusetts and the total amount of distributions received in previous years.”
Then there are 3 boxes to fill in:
1. Total IRA/Keogh, qualified charitable IRA and Roth IRA conversion distributions for 2019:
2. Total contributions previously taxed by Massachusetts:
3. Total distributions received in previous years:
I filled these in with:
1. $6,001 (that was the number reported on my 1009-R from Vanguard for total distributions)
2. $6,000 (because that’s how much I contributed to my Traditional IRA). But i’m not sure if that’s what I should enter.
3. Not sure what to put.
Please help!
Thanks
1. No. Yes. Yes
2. Yes, for 8606 purposes.
3. Not an accountant and never done MA state taxes, but it’s not clear to me what a “conversion distribution” is. I think your guess is what I would do.
Just checking on my 8606 numbers because turbo tax left line 6-12 blank (except an ”x” on line 10). I did my first backdoor Roth. Contributed $6000 into tIRA and converted $6004 into Roth.
Line 1: 6000
Line 2: 0
Line 3: 6000
Line 5: 6000
Line 13: 6000*
Line 14: 0
Line 15a, b, c: 0, 0, 0*
Line 16: 6004
Line 17: 6000
Line 18: 4. *
That’s okay. Turbotax does that. The IRS has never seemed to care. See Pub 590 for details (specifically Worksheet 1-1.)
Update. I found an old 8606 so included past total basis. Now the form isn’t including the 4 dollars that should be taxed?!
1) 6000
2) 7840
3) 13840
5) 13840
13) 6004
14) 7836
15abc) 0,0,0
16) 6004
17) 6004
18) 0
I also had to transfer my old fidelity t-IRA into my TSP, so fidelity sent me a 1099-r documenting this. Although, I don’t see anywhere to enter this specifically in TurboTax. Is this normal, because it’s not a taxable event, or am I missing something? Thanks for all your help. You have already saved me from buying whole life (which is how I came across the site). And one of your recommended agents was great at getting my wife and I a better disability and life insurance policy.
I don’t see a reason to report a tax free rollover on my tax return. Do you?
Why not? Is it a software issue? What happens if you do 8606 by hand? Why not override the software and just do that. If you know you owe taxes on $4, make the form say that.