By Dr. Jim Dahle, WCI Founder
Setting up a Backdoor Roth IRA can be confusing, so I thought I’d put together a tutorial on the steps people can refer to when they go through this process. Let's get started.
Table of Contents
- What Is a Backdoor Roth IRA?
- Who Should Do a Backdoor Roth IRA?
- When to Do a Backdoor Roth IRA?
- Backdoor Roth IRA Pros and Cons
- Backdoor Roth IRA Tax Implications
- Backdoor Roth IRA Steps
- How to Fix and Prevent Backdoor Roth IRA Mistakes
- Backdoor Roth IRA FAQs
What Is a Backdoor Roth IRA?
Despite its name, a Backdoor Roth IRA is not an account; it is a process with two steps:
- Contribute to a Traditional IRA.
- Complete a Roth conversion.
If you understand the rules of both of these steps, putting them together is no problem.
Who Should Do a Backdoor Roth IRA
Remember that if you are a low earner you can just contribute DIRECTLY to a Roth IRA and skip this Backdoor Roth IRA process.
Roth IRA Limits and Conversion Rules
Low earner is defined as a Modified Adjusted Gross Income (MAGI) under a phaseout range in 2024 of $146,000-$161,000 ($230,000-$240,000 Married Filing Jointly). Some docs—like residents, employee dentists, part-timers, and even some medical attendings in the lower-paying specialties who are married to a non-earner—can just contribute to a Roth IRA directly.
Anyone who earns at least $7,000 ($8,000 if 50+) can contribute $7,000 ($8,000 if 50+) to an IRA [2024]. If your income is below a MAGI of $146,000-$161,000 ($230,000-$240,000 Married Filing Jointly), you can contribute directly to a Roth IRA. If you have a retirement plan offered to you at work and your MAGI is below $77,000-$87,000 ($123,000-$143,000 Married Filing Jointly), you can deduct your traditional IRA contributions. Since most readers of this blog have a retirement plan through their job and have (or soon will have) a MAGI over $240,000, they will find that they can't make direct Roth IRA contributions or deduct their traditional IRA contributions. Thus, their best IRA option is the Backdoor Roth IRA process, i.e., an indirect Roth IRA contribution.
Spousal IRAs
Married physicians should be using a personal and a spousal Roth IRA, and you will usually need to fund both indirectly (i.e., through the Backdoor). This provides an additional $7,000 each ($8,000 for each spouse that is 50+) of tax-protected and (in most states) asset-protected space per tax year, and it allows for more tax diversification in retirement. Tax diversification allows you to determine your own tax rate as a retiree by deciding how much to take from tax-deferred (traditional) accounts and how much from tax-free (Roth) accounts. Remember that IRA stands for INDIVIDUAL Retirement Arrangement, so even if the pro-rata rule (discussed below) keeps you from doing the Backdoor Roth IRA, it doesn't necessarily keep your spouse from doing so. Each spouse reports their Backdoor Roth IRA on their own separate 8606, so the tax return for a married couple doing Backdoor Roth IRAs should always include two Form 8606s.
Married Filing Separately
The contribution and deduction income limits are particularly low if you are filing your taxes Married Filing Separately (MFS). Both the ability to contribute directly to a Roth IRA and the ability to deduct a traditional IRA contribution if you (or your spouse) are eligible for a retirement plan at work phase out between $0 and $10,000. Basically, the best option for anyone filing their taxes MFS is the Backdoor Roth IRA process, i.e., an indirect Roth IRA contribution.
There is an exception to these rules if you do not actually live with your spouse. In that case, your ability to contribute directly to a Roth IRA phases out between a MAGI of $146,000-$161,000 in 2024. If you live separately and are not covered by a retirement plan at work, you can deduct a traditional IRA contribution no matter your income. You can still do a Backdoor Roth IRA process in these situations where your IRA contribution is either partially or completely deductible. The tax bill will be precisely the same: $0 when done properly. However, instead of having no tax cost for either the contribution or the conversion, your deduction on the contribution will precisely equal the tax cost on the conversion, resulting in that same $0 tax bill for the entire process.
Mega Backdoor Roth IRA
A Mega Backdoor Roth IRA is completely different from a regular Backdoor Roth IRA. Despite its name, you actually do a Mega Backdoor Roth IRA with a 401(k), not an IRA. It requires a 401(k) that accepts both after-tax (not Roth) employee contributions and allows for either in-service withdrawals (and thus conversions to a Roth IRA) or, more commonly, in-plan conversions. Using the Mega Backdoor Roth IRA process, one could put as much as $69,000 ($76,500 if 50+) [2024] per year into a Roth 401(k) (or possibly a Roth IRA in addition to your usual $7,000-$8.000 contribution). However, this process has nothing to do with the Backdoor Roth IRA process we are discussing in this post.
When to Do a Backdoor Roth IRA
Lots of people wonder about the timing of a Backdoor Roth IRA.
IRA Contribution Deadline
There is really only one deadline to meet with the Backdoor Roth IRA process. IRA contributions for a given tax year must take place between January 1 of the tax year and April 15 (even if you file an extension) of the following year.
Backdoor Roth IRA Conversion Deadline
The conversion step may take place at any time. It can take place the next day or even the same day as the contribution. I don't recommend it, but you can wait months, years, or even decades between the contribution and the conversion step. There is no deadline for Roth conversions. If you need to perform a rollover or a conversion of a traditional, rollover, SEP, or SIMPLE IRA in order to avoid the pro-rata rule, you have until December 31 of the year you do the conversion step.
When Should You Contribute and Convert?
You should do both steps as soon as possible. Many white coat investors do the IRA contribution step and the Roth conversion step the first week of January each year. This maximizes the amount of tax-free compounding that can occur on those dollars. Minimizing the time between contribution and conversion and doing both steps within the calendar year is not required, but it certainly simplifies the paperwork.
Want to really make your paperwork complicated? Contribute to your IRA each month and convert it each month. Then, you have 12 contributions and 12 conversions to keep track of each year. Seriously, though, if you make enough money that you have to contribute to your Roth IRA(s) through the Backdoor Roth IRA process, you make enough to do it at one time each year.
Can I Do a Backdoor Roth IRA Every Year?
Yes. My wife and I have done one every year since 2010 and do not plan to stop until we no longer have any earned income. It is just one of the investment chores we perform once a year.
5-Year Rule
One factor that may push you to do a Backdoor Roth IRA earlier is the five-year rule. Now, there are at least three five-year rules related to IRAs, but the main one to pay attention to here is the five-year rule after a Roth conversion. This rule determines whether the withdrawal of principal from the account prior to age 59 1/2 will be penalty-free. The five-year period starts on January 1 of the year you do the conversion, so it could be a little less than five years. Roth IRA principal generally comes out tax- and penalty-free (it is only the earnings that may be subject to penalties), but that is only the case after the five-year rule has been fulfilled.
In essence, if you do a conversion of a Roth IRA at age 51, you can then withdraw the principal tax- and penalty-free starting at age 56 rather than age 59 1/2. This can provide funding for living expenses to early retirees. If you do a Roth conversion at age 57, you still get access to that principal (and earnings) tax- and penalty-free at age 59 1/2. So, it's five years or age 59 1/2, whichever comes first.
There is also a completely separate five-year rule on IRA contributions, but this starts from the time you make your very first IRA contribution, not every contribution, so it should not apply to most early retirees.
Backdoor Roth IRA Pros and Cons
There are a lot of great things about the Backdoor Roth IRA, but it isn't all peaches and cream.
Pros of Backdoor Roth IRA
The main benefit of a Backdoor Roth IRA is that it provides you with another retirement account. Via the Backdoor Roth IRA process, you can continue to contribute to a Roth IRA even after your earnings rise above the income limit for direct Roth IRA contributions. Retirement accounts eliminate the tax drag that applies in a taxable, or non-qualified account, reducing your taxes and allowing your investment to grow at a higher rate so you can reach your goals sooner.
How much can that tax protection be worth compared to a taxable account? It depends on the return of the underlying investment, its tax efficiency, and the amount of time the money is left in the account. At my marginal tax rate, $10,000 earning 8% in a tax-inefficient investment over 50 years would grow to $469,000 in a Roth IRA but only $88,000 in a taxable account. More realistically, over 30 years, the use of a Roth IRA vs. a taxable account for a tax-efficient investment would still result in 29% more money.
Retirement accounts ensure simple estate planning. By using beneficiaries, that money does not go through the probate process, so your heirs get it sooner with less hassle, more privacy, and no cost. They can even stretch the tax-protected growth benefit for another decade after they inherit the account. Retirement accounts like a Roth IRA also provide substantial asset protection in most states, meaning that in the admittedly very rare event of a dramatically above-policy limits judgment that isn't reduced on appeal, you can declare bankruptcy and still keep what is in your retirement accounts. Roth money is tax-free forever, so by continuing to contribute each year, you can increase tax diversification in retirement.
Cons of Backdoor Roth IRA
Roth IRAs, even when you contribute via the Backdoor Roth IRA process, are still retirement accounts with all of their downsides. Retirement accounts limit the investments you can put in them and prohibit the use of margin investing. If you withdraw Roth IRA earnings prior to age 59 1/2 without an approved exception, you will owe a 10% penalty.
Due to the pro-rata rule (see below), the Backdoor Roth IRA process requires you to either convert or roll over into a 401(k) any traditional IRAs, SEP-IRAs, and SIMPLE IRAs you may have. If you have self-employment income, you will need to use a solo 401(k) instead of a SEP-IRA to shelter that income from taxes. Doing Backdoor Roth IRAs each year also adds one form (IRS Form 8606) per spouse to your tax return. If preparing your own taxes using tax software, it can be tricky to ensure the software reports the process correctly. If you do a Backdoor Roth IRA instead of (rather than in addition to) maxing out your tax-deferred accounts during your peak earnings years, that can also be a mistake that results in the accumulation of less money.
Perhaps most significantly, there are now two steps to getting money into your Roth IRA each year instead of just one. While I think the process is pretty darn simple, I am continually amazed at all of the unique ways that doctors manage to screw it up. Later in this article, I'll show you how to fix all of those screwups.
Is a Backdoor Roth IRA Worth It?
Yes! Most of the time. It really is just a little bit of hassle to do each year, although there may be some additional hassle the first year if you need to take care of another IRA first to avoid the pro-rata rule. There may be times when someone has a large traditional IRA they cannot afford to convert to a Roth IRA and cannot roll over into a 401(k) because they don't have a 401(k) at all, their 401(k) charges high fees, or because the IRA assets are invested in something they cannot invest in within a 401(k). If your employer-provided retirement account is a SIMPLE IRA or a SEP-IRA, the Backdoor Roth IRA process is also probably not worth it. Finally, some multi-millionaires don't want to bother with even the minor hassle of the Backdoor Roth IRA process because getting an extra $7,000-$16,000 a year into Roth accounts just isn't going to move the needle for them.
Backdoor Roth IRA Tax Implications
Roth IRAs are all about avoiding taxation on earnings, so naturally, there are lots of tax implications of this process.
Pro-Rata Rule
The most important tax implication to be aware of is the pro-rata rule. I would estimate that 90%+ of Backdoor Roth IRA screwups involve the investor having his or her conversion pro-rated. When you report a Roth IRA conversion on IRS Form 8606 (see below), there is a pro-rata calculation made. The numerator is the amount converted. The denominator is the total of ALL traditional, rollover, SEP, and SIMPLE IRAs, but not 401(k)s, 403(b)s, 457(b)s, Roth IRAs, or inherited IRAs. Therefore, it is critical that you DO SOMETHING with any IRA balance you have PRIOR to December 31 of the year in which you do a Roth conversion of after-tax money. Later in this article, I'll describe the exact options you have for what to do with this money.
Tax on Backdoor Roth IRA Conversion
Done properly, there is NO tax on a Backdoor Roth IRA conversion. Zero. Nada. Zilch. While the money you put into a Roth IRA (indirectly via the Backdoor in this case) was taxed when you earned it, it is NOT taxed when you contribute it directly to a Roth IRA or when you contribute it as a non-deductible IRA conversion or when you subsequently convert that money to a Roth IRA. In fact, it is never taxed again.
Do I Need to Worry About the Step Transaction Doctrine?
There used to be a concern that the IRS would have a problem with the Backdoor Roth due to an IRS rule called The Step Transaction Doctrine. This rule basically says that if the sum of a bunch of legal steps is illegal, then you can’t do it. Some wondered if this Backdoor conversion from a Traditional IRA to Roth was a legal transaction considering this doctrine. Those concerns, valid or not, are no longer an issue. The IRS clarified in early 2018 that no waiting period is required between the contribution and conversion steps of the Backdoor Roth IRA. It has essentially given its blessing on the whole process. Waiting just makes things more complicated on the 8606, as discussed in Pennies and the Backdoor Roth IRA.
How to Report a Backdoor Roth IRA on TurboTax
Reporting the Backdoor Roth IRA properly on TurboTax is unfortunately even more complicated than filling out Form 8606 by hand. The key to doing it right is to recognize that you report the conversion step in the Income section but you report the contribution step in the Deductions and Credits section. Since you generally do the income section first, you report the conversion before you report the contribution, even though you actually did the contribution before the conversion. At the end, you want to look at the Form(s) 8606 that TurboTax generates, just like you would check up on one filled out by an accountant.
More information here:
How to Report a Backdoor Roth IRA on TurboTax
Backdoor Roth IRA Steps, Tutorials, and Walkthroughs
In this section, we'll explain exactly how to do the Backdoor Roth IRA process and how to report it on your tax return, whether you file on paper or using tax software. You can easily walk through these Backdoor Roth IRA steps at Vanguard, complete a Backdoor Roth at Fidelity, or knock out a Backdoor Roth IRA at Schwab, three of the most popular brokerage/mutual fund companies.
How to Perform and Report on Paper the Backdoor Roth IRA Process
While it is really just a two-step process, it is best to think of it as a six-step process. These steps don't all have to be done in order (it might be easier to do Step 3 before Step 1), but they will all need to be done.
Step #1 Contribute to a Traditional IRA
Make a $7,000 ($8,000 if 50+) non-deductible traditional IRA contribution for yourself and one for your spouse. You can use the same traditional IRA accounts every year—they just spend most of the time with $0 in them. Most fund companies, including Vanguard, don’t close the account just because there is nothing in it. I do this every January 2.
Step #2 Leave the Money in Cash
An account like a traditional IRA is not an investment, of course; just like a suitcase isn't clothing. When putting money in a traditional IRA, you also have to tell the IRA provider how you want to invest. In this case, just leave the money in cash, whether a money market fund or a settlement fund. At Vanguard, the settlement fund is the Federal Money Market Fund. You really don't want to have any gains (or especially any losses) between the contribution and conversion step because it makes the paperwork more complicated. The best way to minimize the gains is to leave it in cash (and then of course to do the conversion as soon after contribution as possible to minimize the “pennies” issue).
Step #3 Convert the Traditional IRA to a Roth IRA
Next, convert the non-deductible traditional IRA to a Roth IRA by transferring the money from your traditional IRA into your Roth IRA at the same fund company. If you don’t already have a Roth IRA there, you’ll need to open one. This can be done in a minute or two online at Vanguard, and it is essentially the same process as opening the traditional IRA. I do this the very next day after I make the contribution. It is very straightforward. When you transfer the money, the website will throw up a scary banner saying something like “THIS IS A TAXABLE EVENT.” That’s true. It is taxable. But the tax bill will be zero since you’ve already paid taxes on the $7,000 and couldn’t claim your contribution as a deduction because you make too much money. You can do Step 3 basically immediately after Step 1. Some companies will let you do it the same day. Other companies will make you wait until the next day or even a week or so. But there is no reason to wait months to do it.
Step #4 Invest the Money
Now you will need to select an investment for the money in your Roth IRA. If you already have an investment in there, you can simply add $7,000 to it. Otherwise, you will need to select an investment in accordance with your written investing plan. If you do not have a written investing plan yet, you can leave the money in cash or put it into a Target Retirement 2050 fund or another lifecycle fund until you get that part of your financial plan worked out.
Step #5 Beware of the Pro-Rata Rule
Get rid of any SEP-IRA, SIMPLE IRA, traditional IRA, or rollover IRA money. The total sum of these accounts on December 31 of the year in which you do the conversion step (Step 2) must be zero to avoid a “pro-rata” calculation (see line 6 on Form 8606) that can eliminate most of the benefit of a Backdoor Roth IRA.
You can get rid of these IRA accounts in three ways:
- Withdraw the money (not recommended, as the money would be subject to tax and/or penalties, not to mention DECREASING your tax-advantaged/asset-protected investment space).
- Convert the entire sum to a Roth IRA. Only recommended if it is a relatively small amount and you can afford to pay the taxes out of current earnings or taxable investments with relatively high basis.
- Roll the money over into a 401(k), 403(b), or individual 401(k). 401(k)s don’t count in the aforementioned pro-rata calculation. Some physicians even open an individual 401(k) at Fidelity, eTrade, or Vanguard (rollovers from traditional IRAs to solo 401(k)s is a recent addition to Vanguard) in order to facilitate a Backdoor Roth IRA.
Step #6 Fill Out IRS Form 8606 Correctly
The next part of the Backdoor Roth IRA is done months later when you (or your accountant) fill out your IRS Form 8606 on your taxes. Don't forget to do it or there is a $50 penalty. Remember that you need one form for each spouse: INDIVIDUAL Retirement Arrangements. You need to double-check this to make sure it is done right, even if you hire a pro to avoid screwing up this part. Advisors have told me that they have had to help clients fix dozens of these that tax preparers have done improperly. If you don't do it right, you'll pay taxes twice on your Backdoor Roth IRA contribution.
Page 1 (below) shows a “distribution” from your non-deductible IRA. Since the money was already taxed, the taxable amount on your distribution is zero. Line 1 is your non-deductible contribution. On Line 2, your basis is zero because you had no money in a traditional IRA on December 31 of last year (if you've been carrying a non-deductible IRA for years, this may not be zero). Line 6 is zero in a typical year. Note that TurboTax may fill this out a little differently (may leave lines 6-12 blank), but you end up with the same thing. Line 13 is the same as line 3, so the tax due is zero.
Here's an example from the 2023 version of Form 8606.
On page 2 (below), you are showing the Roth conversion. I'm not really sure why you have to do this twice (since you're just transferring the amounts from lines 8 and 11 and then subtracting them), but that's what the form calls for. As you can see, a Roth conversion of a non-deductible traditional IRA contribution without any gains is a taxable event; it's just that the tax bill is zero for it.
When double-checking your tax preparer's work, you want to concentrate on lines 2, 14, 15c, and 18, and make sure they're a very small amount, like zero, and not a very large amount, like $7,000. The form can get more complicated if you are doing other Roth conversions at the same time or if you made a contribution for the previous year (i.e., made your 2022 contribution in 2023). See below for more details.
Notice how there is no place on the form to put the date when you made the contribution or the date when you made the conversion. It isn't on the form your IRA custodian sends to the IRS (1099-R) either.
Do It All Again Next Year
You do not have to wait any period of time between the contribution and conversion. Each year, I make my Traditional IRA contribution on January 2, then convert it to a Roth IRA the next day or within a few days. That gets my investment money working as soon as possible and simplifies the record keeping. Vanguard won’t let you do it the same day (sometimes other providers will), so I have to wait one day anyway. Occasionally they'll make you wait up to a week. If you find you have a few pennies left in the account and are worried you'll get pro-rated, take a look at this post: Pennies and the Backdoor Roth IRA.
More information here:
How to Do a Backdoor Roth IRA with Vanguard
How to Do a Backdoor Roth IRA at Fidelity
How to Fix and Prevent Backdoor Roth IRA Mistakes
In this section, we're going to talk about how to fix and prevent common mistakes in the Backdoor Roth IRA process. To better organize these mistakes, we will break down the process into the six very clear steps used above and then will explain possible errors with each step and what to do about them.
6 Steps to Successfully Contribute to a Backdoor Roth IRA
- Step 1 – Contribute to traditional IRA ($7,000, $8,000 if 50+ for 2024).
- Step 2 – Invest the money in a money market fund.
- Step 3 – Move money from a Traditional IRA to a Roth IRA (i.e., a Roth conversion).
- Step 4 – Invest in your preferred investment (typically a stock, bond, or balanced index mutual fund).
- Step 5 – Ensure you have no money in a traditional IRA, SEP-IRA, or SIMPLE IRA on December 31 of the year you do the CONVERSION step.
- Step 6 – Report the transactions correctly on your taxes by filling out Form 8606.
Seriously. That's it. If you can do a cholecystectomy, you can do this. If you can work up a pulmonary embolus appropriately, you can do this. If you can manage hypertension well, you can do this. If you can fill a cavity, you can do this. Super easy.
However, people still manage to screw up on EACH of those six steps. Let's go through the mistakes people make, step by step.
How to Fix Backdoor Roth IRA Mistakes
Step 1 Error – Contributing Directly to a Roth IRA
An error that commonly occurs with a first Backdoor Roth IRA is that people simply don't realize that their income is too high to make a direct Roth IRA contribution. Instead of doing it indirectly (i.e., going through the Backdoor), which is no big deal even if you're under the limit, they contribute directly to a Roth IRA. Then they realize their Modified Adjusted Gross Income (MAGI) is over $146,000-$161,000 ($230,000-$240,000 Married Filing Jointly) for 2024. Now what?
Enter the Recharacterization
If you have made this error, now you have to recharacterize the Roth IRA contribution to a traditional IRA contribution. This basically makes it as though you never contributed to a Roth IRA but contributed to a traditional IRA instead. You usually have to call your IRA provider to get this done, but it's no big deal. In this section, I'll walk you through the details of how to do it.
You have until the due date of your tax return to do this (including extensions). So, if you made an IRA contribution in January of 2023 for the 2023 tax year, you have until October 15, 2024, to do a recharacterization. There's no penalty or anything to do it. You can do the opposite as well if you contributed to a traditional IRA but meant to contribute directly to a Roth IRA.
Bear in mind that starting in 2018, you can no longer do recharacterizations of Roth CONVERSIONS (not contributions). This eliminated the “Roth IRA Conversion Horserace” technique for tax reduction.
Until only a couple of years ago, I had thought there was a waiting period after a recharacterization to then reconvert the money to a Roth IRA. However, that rule was only for recharacterizations of conversions, not contributions. There has never been a waiting period for a recharacterization.
Any gains that occur before the final conversion are, of course, fully taxable at your ordinary income tax rate in the year of the final conversion.
The Income Limit
The first thing to determine is whether this post even applies to you. If your income is below a certain amount, you can just contribute directly to a Roth IRA. That amount depends on several things. First, it is a MODIFIED Adjusted Gross Income (MAGI). That number is very similar to your Adjusted Gross Income (AGI). Remember how tax Form 1040 works.
The first income line you come to is line 7b, your “Total Income.” When people think about income, this is generally what they think of. The third income line on the form is line 11b. This is your “Taxable Income.” This is what your tax bill is actually calculated from. It is basically your total income minus all of your deductions. In between those two, on line 8b, is another income, your “Adjusted Gross Income.” This is “the line” that people are talking about when they use the phrases “above-the-line deduction” and “below-the-line deduction.” If it comes out before your AGI is calculated, it is an above-the-line deduction. These are deductions such as self-employment tax, self-employed retirement plans, self-employed health insurance premiums, HSA contributions, student loan interest, alimony, tuition, and any IRA deductions. If it comes out after your AGI is calculated, it is a below-the-line deduction. These are EITHER your standard deduction OR your itemized deductions, like mortgage interest, state/local/property taxes, and charitable contributions. A MAGI is just a slight tweak to your AGI.
Below are the MAGI limits for direct Roth IRA contributions [2024]. If your MAGI is below the first number, you can just contribute to a Roth IRA directly. If your MAGI is over the second number, you cannot contribute at all. If your MAGI is between the two numbers, you can make a partial direct contribution (most shouldn't bother with this, just do it all through the Backdoor).
- Married Filing Separately (and lived with spouse for at least part of the year): $0-$10,000
- Married Filing Jointly: $230,000-$240,000
- Single or Head of Household: $146,000-$161,000
If you think you'll be anywhere close to that first number, do yourself a favor and just make your Roth IRA contribution indirectly, i.e., through the Backdoor (contribute to a traditional IRA and then convert that contribution to a Roth IRA). Since 2010, there has been no income limit on Roth conversions and there has never been an income limit on traditional IRA contributions, just your ability to deduct them.
How does a MAGI differ from an AGI? It's a very slight difference. Bear in mind that there are other MAGIs out there. We're only talking about the one that affects Roth IRA contributions here. But to get your MAGI, you simply take your AGI, subtract some income from it, and add back in some other income to it. The worksheet showing you how to do this is Worksheet 2-1 in Publication 590.
Basically, you subtract income from a Roth conversion and you add income from IRA deductions (not sure why you'd have this), student loan interest (if you are using this worksheet, you probably don't have this), tuition deduction (you probably don't have this), a couple of rare deductions for foreign income/deductions (you probably don't have these), some savings bond interest you probably don't have much of, and some employer-provided adoption benefits. For most people, your MAGI = your AGI since all of these deductions are pretty rare for the folks worried about this limit for direct Roth IRA contributions. So, focus on your AGI. That means if you contributed directly to a Roth IRA but late in the year realized you probably should not have, one easy fix is to get your AGI below that limit by contributing to an HSA or a self-employed retirement plan like an individual 401(k) or SEP-IRA. Note that giving a bunch of money to charity is NOT a solution to this problem because that is a below-the-line deduction.
How to Do an IRA Recharacterization
If you can't get your MAGI low enough, you will have to do an IRA recharacterization. As far as the IRS is concerned, a recharacterization is as though you never made the Roth IRA contribution at all but made a traditional IRA contribution instead. You don't report a recharacterization separately; you just report a traditional IRA contribution. Keep in mind as you read on the internet about recharacterizations that there used to be two types of them—a recharacterization of a Roth IRA CONTRIBUTION and a recharacterization of a Roth IRA CONVERSION. The second type was outlawed in 2018, but the first one, the one we're talking about today, is still perfectly legal. If you decide you want to undo a Roth conversion these days, you're simply out of luck. Here is how you do a recharacterization of a Roth IRA contribution:
- You tell Vanguard (or wherever your IRAs are) to recharacterize the Roth IRA contribution to a Traditional IRA contribution.
Yup. That's it. The brokerage takes care of the rest. You can read all about all of the rules in Publication 590 Chapter 1 if you want, but that's basically what they say. Don't believe me? Fine. Here are the IRS instructions:
How Do You Recharacterize a Contribution?
To recharacterize a contribution, you must notify both the trustee of the first IRA (the one to which the contribution was actually made) and the trustee of the second IRA (the one to which the contribution is being moved) that you have elected to treat the contribution as having been made to the second IRA rather than the first. You must make the notifications by the date of the transfer. Only one notification is required if both IRAs are maintained by the same trustee. The notification(s) must include all of the following information:
- The type and amount of the contribution to the first IRA that is to be recharacterized.
- The date on which the contribution was made to the first IRA and the year for which it was made.
- A direction to the trustee of the first IRA to transfer in a trustee-to-trustee transfer the amount of the contribution and any net income (or loss) allocable to the contribution to the trustee of the second IRA.
- The name of the trustee of the first IRA and the name of the trustee of the second IRA.
- Any additional information needed to make the transfer.
In most cases, the net income you must transfer is determined by your IRA trustee or custodian.
See what I mean? It's just a phone call. Any earnings that the account had in between the contribution and the recharacterization just go over with the contribution. No big deal.
You have until your tax filing date to do this. Most of the time, that's April 15 of the next year. However, the IRS is even more lenient than that. You actually can do this for an extra six months after your tax filing date, but you will have to refile your return.
Where Do You Report a Recharacterization?
If you hire somebody else to prepare your taxes, you can skip this section. If you do it yourself, you'll need to make sure you report this correctly. According to Pub 590, you report it on our old friend Form 8606.
Pub 590 says this:
Actually, that's really misleading. If you read Form 8606, you will see that the only time it ever mentions a recharacterization is to tell you NOT to put it on the form.
So, what is Pub 590 talking about? They're talking about this section in the 8606 instructions:
Reporting recharacterizations.
Treat any recharacterized IRA contribution as though the amount of the contribution was originally contributed to the second IRA, not the first IRA. For the recharacterization, you must transfer the amount of the original contribution plus any related earnings or less any related loss. In most cases, your IRA trustee or custodian figures the amount of the related earnings you must transfer. If you need to figure the related earnings, see How Do You Recharacterize a Contribution? in chapter 1 of Pub. 590-A. Treat any earnings or loss that occurred in the first IRA as having occurred in the second IRA. You can’t deduct any loss that occurred while the funds were in the first IRA . . . Report the nondeductible traditional IRA portion of the recharacterized contribution, if any, on Form 8606, Part I. Don’t report the Roth IRA contribution (whether or not you recharacterized all or part of it) on Form 8606. Attach a statement to your return explaining the recharacterization. If the recharacterization occurred in 2023, include the amount transferred from the traditional IRA on 2023 Form 1040, 1040-SR, or 1040-NR, line 4a. If the recharacterization occurred in 2024, report the amount transferred only in the attached statement, and not on your 2023 or 2024 tax return.
The bottom line is that you just report this recharacterized contribution on Form 8606 as if it were the regular old non-deductible traditional IRA contribution that you should have made in the first place. You also need to include a statement. What should your statement look like? I would write something like this:
“To whom it may concern:
I made a 2024 Roth IRA contribution of $7,000 on March 13, 2024, because I didn't know about the whole MAGI limit thing when I made the contribution. After becoming smarter, I recharacterized $7,137.14 (original contribution plus earnings) to a traditional IRA on November 4, 2024. Thank you for helping our country fund its government. You're the best.
Hugs and kisses from your favorite taxpayer,
James Dahle”
Seriously, it doesn't say what has to be on the statement, just that there is one “explaining the recharacterization.” You don't even have to tell them why you did the recharacterization. If you had a loss in the account between contribution and recharacterization, no big deal. It's still as though you made a $7,000 contribution to a traditional IRA and THEN it lost money. If you were able to deduct the contribution (you probably can't) you would get a $7,000 deduction. The IRA provider may also send you a Form 5498 (which has the recharacterized amount on line 4), but you don't actually do anything with it when you file your taxes. It's just an informational return.
Reconverting the IRA
Here is where it gets interesting. You've now fixed your mistake in the eyes of the IRS, going from an illegal Roth IRA contribution to a legal traditional IRA contribution (that is probably not deductible for you). But you aren't done with what you meant to do, which is put money into a Roth IRA. You now need to do a Roth conversion. You do it just like you normally would as if you had contributed originally to the Traditional IRA. You can do it the very next day if you like. You can probably even do it the same day; just make sure there is a paper trail showing the money was actually in the traditional IRA at some point. There used to be a waiting period after a recharacterization before you could do a Roth conversion on that money. But that waiting period only ever applied to the recharacterization of a Roth CONVERSION (which was no longer allowed starting in 2018) and NOT the recharacterization of a Roth CONTRIBUTION. So, there is no waiting period. Just reconvert convert it and go on your merry way.
I hope this information helps you fix your mistake. Just do your Roth IRA contributions through the Backdoor going forward, and you won't have this problem again.
Step 2 Error – Not Investing in a Money Market Fund in the Traditional IRA
What happens if you LOSE money in between the contribution and conversion step? This problem is easily avoided by using an investment like a money market fund that does not go down in value for that time period. But some people fail to do so and end up losing money. When they work their way through their IRS Form 8606, they discover they have basis left over that they can then carry forward indefinitely for years! No big deal; it just makes your paperwork more complicated. Perhaps at some point in the future, you'll do a Roth conversion of tax-deferred money and this carry-forward basis will reduce the tax on that event.
What if you MADE money in the account between contribution and conversion? This actually happens most of the time, so I wrote an entire post on it called Pennies and the Backdoor Roth IRA. Technically, any money earned between the contribution and conversion step is fully taxable at ordinary income tax rates in the year of the conversion. If it is less than 50 cents, you just ignore it. If it's more, you report it on your 8606 and pay taxes on it.
If it is still in the traditional IRA, either do another tiny Roth conversion or leave it there until you do next year's Backdoor Roth IRA process. Either is fine. If you were smart and just used a money market fund and did the conversion as soon as your IRA provider allowed it (usually less than a week and sometimes as early as the next day), this won't be much money and there won't be much tax due.
Step 3 Error – Forgetting to Do the Conversion
If you forgot to do the conversion step for eight months afterward, it could be a huge gain on which you're unnecessarily paying taxes. No way to fix this one, just pay your “stupid tax” and move on.
Step 4 Error – Forgetting to Invest the Roth IRA Money
Even worse than paying taxes on a huge gain is not getting the gain in the first place because you left the money sitting in cash for months. No way to fix this one either. Your “stupid tax” this time comes in the form of opportunity cost. Just get the money invested ASAP to stop the cash drag. Maybe you even got lucky and the market went down in between contribution and investment so now you get to buy low.
Step 5 Error – The Pro-Rata Rule
Some of the most common questions I get are from people who make a late contribution to a Backdoor Roth IRA. What do I mean by late? You are allowed to make an IRA contribution AFTER the calendar year ends. In fact, you have until Tax Day, usually April 15 unless you get an extension of up to six months. While it is to your advantage to contribute to retirement accounts as quickly as possible so that money can start compounding in a tax-protected way, I understand that we all have lots of good things to do with our money and sometimes this gets pushed back into the next calendar year. All it really does is complicate your paperwork a bit.
For example: if you made your 2023 IRA contribution in April 2024, instead of reporting both the contribution and the conversion on your 2023 taxes, you would report only the contribution there. The conversion would be reported on the taxes for the year you did the conversion, i.e., your 2024 tax return due in April 2025. Your 2023 IRS Form 8606 becomes a little simpler and your 2024 IRS Form 8606 becomes a little more complicated. Not a big deal if you can follow the simple instructions.
What confuses people, however, is the pro-rata rule. This is the rule that says you need to empty your traditional IRA by December 31 of the year you do the conversion. Since these folks have never filled out a Form 8606 (or apparently read the instructions), they assume that for a 2023 contribution they need to have a balance of $0 at the end of 2023, even if they didn't do the conversion step until 2024. That's simply not the case. The pro-rata rule isn't applied until the year of the conversion, i.e., December 31, 2024.
Emptying the IRAs
How do you empty those IRAs? You usually have two choices.
- Do a Roth conversion of the whole thing. This is what I generally recommend for small IRAs where the tax bill on the conversion would not be too onerous. It is quick and easy, and it increases the amount of tax-free assets you have.
- Roll the money into a 401(k) or 403(b), either that of your current employer, that of a past employer, or to your own individual 401(k) if you are self-employed. This is usually a better option if you have a large IRA where you would rather deal with the hassle than pay the tax bill during your peak earnings years.
How large is large and how small is small? It's going to vary by the person and how much disposable cash they have. Most would consider an IRA under $10,000 to be small and an IRA over $100,000 to be large. In between, it's a personal decision as to which would be better for you.
What If You Didn't Empty the IRA?
What if you screwed this one up? Your Backdoor Roth IRA conversion step just got pro-rata'd. There is a tax bill associated with that because most of your conversion was of tax-deferred money rather than post-tax money like it was supposed to be.
The fix for this is going to vary by the individual, but the easiest fix is to simply convert the entire IRA to a Roth IRA now, so you end up getting all your post-tax money into that Roth IRA. Another possible fix is to figure out a way to separate your basis in that IRA, roll the tax-deferred money into a 401(k), and then convert the basis left behind in the IRA.
Do yourself a favor and just empty the darn IRA by December 31. Keep in mind that this is usually not an instantaneous process, so don't put it off until you're on holiday break at the end of the year.
Step 6 Error – Screwing Up the Tax Forms
Both individual taxpayers and professional tax preparers screw up IRS Form 8606 all the time. In fact, some of them haven't even heard of a Backdoor Roth IRA. (Incidentally, this is one of the best questions to ask while interviewing a potential tax professional—”How many Backdoor Roth IRAs did you help last year?”)
The usual fix to this error is to file a 1040X (Amended Tax Return) and a new Form 8606. You can do this for the last three years if necessary. If you didn't file Form 8606 at all, you'll definitely want to do this. The key is to check lines 15c and 18 on Form 8606. They should both be a number very close to zero if the form is being completed correctly.
The tax preparer should NOT be filing Form 5439. If you did Steps 1-5 right, this form probably doesn't belong in your tax return.
A lot of people wonder about the 1099-R sent to them by their IRA provider and worry that it was done wrong and that it will cause them to pay taxes they shouldn't have to pay. Sometimes the form was filled out wrong, but mostly this is just a lot of anxiety. What gets people anxious is finding something on Line 2a “Taxable amount.” As long as the box on Line 2b is also checked “Taxable amount not determined,” you're golden. Don't worry about it. If it is not, have the IRA provider send you a new, correct form—either with $0 in 2a or the box in 2b checked (usually the latter). Here's what mine from a few years back looked like from Vanguard:
Note that Box 2b is checked, even though a taxable amount of $5,500.07 is being reported to the IRS.
Again, if you're not sure how to enter this into TurboTax, check out my TurboTax tutorial.
Still Confused About the Backdoor Roth?
Need more help with a Backdoor Roth IRA? I wish Congress would just lift the rule against direct Roth IRA contributions for high earners and save us all this hassle, but who knows if that will ever happen.
- If you made your contribution after the end of the year, check out Late Contributions to the Backdoor Roth IRA.
- Here's a step-by-step tutorial for doing a Backdoor Roth IRA at Vanguard.
- Here's a step-by-step tutorial for doing a Backdoor Roth IRA at Fidelity.
- Here is a step-by-step tutorial reporting the Backdoor Roth IRA in TurboTax.
- Here is my prior post on 17 Ways to Screw Up Your Backdoor Roth IRA.
- You can hire a professional to help you—either a good financial advisor or a good tax strategist can assist.
- You can also ask your peers for help on the WCI Forum, the Private WCI Facebook Group, and the WCI Subreddit.
Late Contributions to the Backdoor Roth IRA
While it is “cleaner” to make your contribution and your conversion all in the same calendar tax year, you can make your contribution up until your tax filing date of the next year. The key to filling out the 8606 correctly when you make a contribution after the calendar year is to recognize that the contribution step is reported for the tax year and the conversion step is reported for the calendar year. So imagine you did the following during the calendar year 2023:
- Made a 2022 IRA contribution (reported on 2022 8606)
- Did a Roth conversion of that contribution (reported on 2023 8606)
- Made a 2023 IRA contribution (reported on 2023 8606)
- Did a Roth conversion of that contribution (reported on 2023 8606)
Your forms would look like this:
2022 Form 8606 (Only Have to Fill Out Part I)
Note that all this serves to do is report basis for the next year. No tax is due. Since no conversion step was done during the calendar year 2022, you only have to fill out lines 1-3 and 14.
2023 Form 8606 (Must Fill Out Parts I and II)
Note that you've got to do all of Part I plus Part II for this year because you did the conversion step, unlike last year (2022). Let's go through this line by line.
Form 8606 – Part I
- Line 1 – That's the money you contributed for 2023 (which would be $6,500).
- Line 2 – This is your basis. Since you made a contribution for 2022 but didn't do a conversion until 2023, your basis is $6,000.
- Line 3 – $6,500 + $6,000 = $12,500.
- Line 4 – Remember this is asking about 2024, not 2023, and since you won't make the mistake of doing your contribution late again, this will be zero.
- Line 5 – $12,500 – $0 = $12,500.
- Line 6 – This is the line that triggers the pro-rata issue. Even though you made a 2022 contribution, you did so AFTER December 31, so this line would still be zero if you filled it out for 2022, which you didn't because you didn't do a conversion in 2022 and got to skip lines 4-13. But this is the 2023 form and since you converted your entire traditional IRA, this will be $0.
- Line 7 – This doesn't include conversions. Since you didn't take any money out of your traditional IRA this year except the conversion, this is $0.
- Line 8 – You converted a total of $12,500 this year to a Roth IRA, so $12,500.
- Line 9 – $0 + $0 + $12,500 = $12,500.
- Line 10 – $12,500/$12,500 = 1.
- Line 11 – $12,500 * 1 = $12,500.
- Line 12 – $0 * 1 = $0.
- Line 13 – $12,500 + $0 = $12,500.
- Line 14 – $12,500 – $12,500 = $0.
- Line 15a – $0 – $0 = $0.
- Line 15b – You didn't take money out of an IRA to help you survive a disaster, so $0.
- Line 15c – $0 – $0 = $0.
Part II
- Line 16 – Line 8 is $12,500 so $12,500.
- Line 17 – Line 11 is $12,500 so $12,500.
- Line 18 – $12,500 – $12,500 = $0.
Backdoor Roth IRA FAQs
Can I still do a Backdoor Roth IRA for last year?
You have until tax day (generally April 15, but as late as October 15 if you file an extension) of the following year to make your traditional IRA contribution. There is no deadline for the Roth conversion step; it can be done at anytime. Make sure you fill out the paperwork properly according to the section above about late contributions.
Can I do last year's IRA contribution and this year's IRA contribution at the same time and convert them at the same time?
Yes. Just remember to report last year's contribution on last year's Form 8606 and this year's contribution and the conversion on this year's Form 8606.
Does my 401(k), 403(b), 457(b), Roth IRA, or inherited IRA count toward the pro-rata calculation?
No. Only traditional IRAs, rollover IRAs, SEP-IRAs, and SIMPLE IRAs count. See line 6 of Form 8606 for details.
What if it is a separate IRA? Does it still count?
Yes. All IRAs count toward the pro-rata calculation.
What should I do with my rollover or traditional IRA to avoid pro-ration?
If it is small, convert it to a Roth IRA along with this year's traditional IRA contribution and pay the tax due on it. If large, try to roll it into your employer's 401(k) or if you have self-employment income, into your individual 401(k).
I got pro-rated. What now?
The easiest solution is to convert the entire IRA, SEP-IRA, or SIMPLE IRA that caused the pro-ration and is now composed of both pre-tax and after-tax money. That is also the most expensive solution. A harder solution that may save you some taxes involves isolating the basis in that IRA by rolling the rest of the account into a 401(k) and then convert just the basis to a Roth IRA.
I am leaving my employer. Should I roll my 401(k) or 403(b) into a traditional IRA? If not, what should I do with it?
If you put it into a traditional IRA it is going to cause any future Backdoor Roths to be pro-rated. Better options include leaving it where it is; rolling it into your new employer's 401(k) or 403(b); rolling it into your individual 401(k); or, if it is small, just converting the whole thing to a Roth IRA.
How much can I contribute to a Roth IRA via the Backdoor Roth IRA process?
In 2024, you are allowed to contribute $7,000 ($8,000 if 50+) per year for you and $7,000 ($8,000 if 50+) for your spouse. This includes all contributions to traditional and Roth IRAs. Rollovers/transfers do not count toward the annual contribution limit.
What should I invest the money into?
While in the traditional IRA for a day or two, leave it in cash. Once it is in the Roth IRA, invest it according to your written investing plan. If you don't have one, get one, but in the meantime it would be a good idea to put it into a lifecycle fund such as a Vanguard Target Retirement Fund.
Can I use the same traditional and Roth IRA each year or do I need new ones?
You can use the same ones each year.
The Backdoor Roth IRA process leads to more tax-free retirement account money for doctors and other high-income professionals. If you follow the simple steps outlined above, you will pay less in taxes, boost your returns, facilitate your estate planning, and increase your asset protection. Most members of The White Coat Investor community do these every year, and you should too.
What do you think? Are you doing Backdoor Roth IRAs? Why or why not? Any questions about it?
[This updated post was originally published in 2014.]
I contributed $11,000 in January 2018 via Backdoor to my Roth IRA. This was for 2017 & 2018 years. If I read your post correctly, I should’ve filled out form 8606 when I did my 2017 taxes in order to report the $5,500 contribution to traditional IRA and establish the basis for 2017? Then, when I do my 2018 taxes I will fill out form 8606 and report $5,500 contribution for 2018 and $11,000 conversion that I did in 2018 (for both, 2017 and 2018 years). Does that sound right? If it does, I will have to amend my 2017 returns and file form 8606.
Yes, you should file a 1040X with an 8606 for 2017.
Hi,
Looking forward our first backdoor Roth IRA conversion(s) in 2018 and looking for clarification re what to do with existing balances.
My tIRA with >100k and spouse’s tIRA with > 40k.
I have a W2 as well as 1099 income and my spouse has a W2 income. We have 25+ years before age 67.
Can we backdoor convert previous years’ contributions to the Roth IRA or is the backdoor conversion available only for current year’s contributions?
What should we do with the balances / gains?
Thanks!
Roll your IRAs into your 401(k)s. If you don’t have a 401(k), open an individual IRA at eTRADe and roll it in there. If she doesn’t have one, consider either converting it all and paying the taxes or getting her some 1099 income and opening an individual 401(k) or lobby her employer to start one.
wow… what a super fast reply!
is my reading correct?
we can only backdoor IRA convert the 2018 traditional IRA contributions.
what’s left needs to go into a 401k or converted into the Roth IRA minus taxes.
thanks!
You can actually convert any IRA contributions from any year, but if you got a tax break when you put the money in, you’ll owe taxes on the conversion.
You also generally pay any taxes due with money that isn’t in an IRA.
sorry for the extra questions but, how do I then avoid past years nondeductible contributions from being taxed as they are converted into the Roth Account?
full details: 103k in existing traditional IRA out of which 53k were non deductible contributions over the past 10 years and the rest are gains I was planning on rolling over into a solo 401k.
Looking at f8606 line #1 will be 5500 and line # 8 will be ~48k (if I Roth convert all my past contributions), Line #10 will be much smaller than ‘1’ and the majority of the 53k will be taxed as it goes into the Roth account… Am I supposed to enter 48k in line #2 ?
It’s all calculated on the 8606. You HAVE been doing an 8606 every year for those non-deductible contributions, right? (If not, you can do 3 years worth of a 1099X with an 8606. If you have records that those contributions aren’t deductible you should be able to justify an appropriate basis on line 2 for the first year you do an 8606.)
I’m a little late too this game…
I’ve never filled an 8606 and never converted from my traditional IRA.
I’ve been contributing post tax money to a traditional IRA since 2009 without deducting it on my tax returns (line 32 was always empty).
I now have >100k in a traditional IRA I’m trying to figure out what to do with,
Why not convert it? Most of it will be converted tax-free.
That’s what I would like to do but I am not sure how much of it to convert vs how much to rollover and how to complete the 8606.
do you think that Vanguard staff will be able to guide me or should I reach out to a tax consultant from your links?
I guess you could try to isolate the basis and roll the rest into a 401(k) like I did here:
https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/how-to-get-your-tax-exempt-tsp-money-in-to-a-roth-ira/
I wouldn’t expect any help on this subject from Vanguard, so if you need some, I’d try the tax folks.
I’m in the same boat. See comment 424 above. Also see my thread in The White Coat Investor Forum. Search: Dr. K How To Get rid of my non deductible traditional IRA.
So I currently have $57k in my roth IRA with Fidelity and $35k with a traditional roth IRA rollover from previous employers also with Fidelity. My salary is $225k. The way I understand it is I either convert the entire tIRA into my roth IRA and pay the taxes or I transfer $5500 and then convert the rest into a 401k? And then repeat every year until my entire previous tIRA is in the roth ? My wifes current job is mom so she has no income but we are married filing jointly. Thank you for your help.
First, roll the entire traditional IRA into a 401(k).
Second, put ANOTHER $5,500 into the now empty traditional IRA.
Third, move that $5,500 into the Roth IRA.
Repeat steps 2 and 3 each year for yourself and your wife.
Hope that helps.
Thanks for the helpful info! I’m in a tricky situation. I recently realized that I incorrectly contributed to my Roth IRA last year. When I was a resident physician in training and single, I made a salary that allowed me to contribute to the Roth IRA – Vanguard autodrafted ~$450 out of my debit account every month while in residency to reach the yearly max. However, I married my husband in Oct. 2017, so for the year, we made too much together as a family. Our “married filing jointly” taxes were done in April 2018. From what I understand, I need to take out that $5500 that I incorrectly contributed to my Roth IRA last year (and get taxed on any earnings). Is it too late to use these funds to do a backdoor Roth for 2017 taxes? I’ve read that I have until October 15 to fix any mistakes.
The fix is to recharacterize the Roth IRA contribution to a traditional IRA contribution. Then wait the prescribed period and convert it.
Awesome. That was my plan, I was just hoping I could contribute retroactively to 2017 and fix my taxes, so I didn’t lose that year’s contribution due to my dumb mistake, but I’ll just plan on a backdoor Roth for 2018. Thanks for all the info and guidance!
On the topic of the pro-rata rule as it applies to those who have made previous non-deductible TIRA contributions: there is a loophole that can let you have your cake and eat it too. I was in this situation a few years ago. In my younger less-informed years, I made non-deductible TIRA contributions for a few years.
As my income increased, I got to the point where I was ready to start making backdoor Roth contributions, but now my TIRA had a combination of pretax and post-tax money. My contribution to the TIRA was post-tax, but the investment gains those contributions had accrued were pretax. If I had converted the whole thing to Roth to clear the way for backdoor Roth contributions, I’d have paid taxes on the pretax balance because of the pro rata rule, as described above.
*However,* according to IRS publication 590-A (first two paragraphs of the second column on page 21), there are some ways to separate the pretax balance. If you have a 457, a 403, or in my case, a TSP, you can roll over only the pretax balance into that account. That leaves you free and clear to roll over the remaining, post-tax balance, to a Roth IRA tax-free. I did this in 2012 after calling the IRS to make sure my interpretation of the document was correct because I couldn’t recall reading about it anywhere online before. They confirmed that (at least at the time) each step of the process was legal.
Yes, I’ve done that too.
https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/how-to-get-your-tax-exempt-tsp-money-in-to-a-roth-ira/
When can you withdraw backdoor Roth conversion money tax free. Is it after 5 years?
IE I do a backdoor Roth now in 2018 sending $5,500 to the traditional IRA then converting to Roth. Say I do this yearly. Once I hit 2023, I should be able to withdraw the original $5,500 tax free, and then each year after that an extra $5,500 could be withdrawn tax free, correct? (Age would be under 59.5) After 5 years essentially each year $27,500 ($5,500 x 5) would be in limbo, and an extra $5,500 of principal is accessible.
If I were to withdraw any of the “limbo” money earlier, it would result in 10% penalty, correct?
Yes. Kitces has a nice article on it:
https://www.kitces.com/blog/understanding-the-two-5-year-rules-for-roth-ira-contributions-and-conversions/
Thank you, and thanks for all that you do and all the help you’ve given to me and countless others
Jim
Thank you for this amazing site. I share it with my medical students, residents, fellows and colleagues to educated them.
I have a traditional IRA that I opened up in 2008 with a very modest amount and invested in stocks that have since done remarkably well, cost basis of around $10k, now worth $160k. This account is what is keeping me from doing a backdoor Roth – the tax bill on this account conversion will be substantial.
At what point do the tax implications of conversion (about $60k in taxes – 37% on $160k) outweigh the upside of a yearly Backdoor Roth? I am 45 yo. Or am I missing something about the tax implications here of the conversion? Any other options here for me? I don’t want to roll over into my employer 403B and I don’t want to sell the stocks.
Thanks much
Mike
Thank you for sharing.
Remarkably well is right! Have you given any thought to running a mutual fund?
At any rate, think of it this way. If you pay the taxes on it, you now have more (on an after-tax basis) in the account that you can continue to invest. And since you’re investing it so well, you’ll be super glad it’s all tax-free later even if it cost you $60K now!
On the other hand, if you think you might have just gotten lucky, just roll it into the 403b.
But in general? At 45 you’ve got 10-20 years more of Roth IRA contributions, perhaps $100K worth. That’s probably enough to justify paying $60K now that could be taxed at a lower rate later. But if you said the conversion costs $300K and you’re 55. Definitely not. So if you’re going to do it, do it now (or in the midst of a bear market if one shows up very soon!)
Thank you. I appreciate those insights. Definitely a good arbitrage by paying those taxes now.
Transferring it to A 401(k) would probably limit my investing options in only mutual funds
Keep up the great education!
Mike
Mike,
Can you open up an individual 401k at fidelity? I say fidelity because Vanguard doesn’t allow IRA to 401k conversions or at least it didn’t last I checked about 3 years ago. Once you own your own 401k, you can roll in anything you want that is within the law.
So how do you get an individual 401k? You need a business that has some profit that you can then invest in a 401k. This can be through opening a business, doing some independent contractor moonlighting work, running a blog, or having a tiny online sales business. Once you have a 401k set up just have fidelity rollover your IRA and your done. Running an individual 401k does add a little complexity. Once you have $250k in the account you will need to file a form 5500 with the IRS every year.
Ive given that some thought and can do that. I work at an AMC but have some independent income. Great idea
Hello, Loved your book and your website. I’m just finishing first year out of fellowship and want to get my finances in order .
I have a 403 b from fellowship w/ 14 k in it
I have a rollover IRA from residency with 29 k in it
and about 34k with my new employer. 457 plan
I want to do a back door IRA this year but want to park the fellowship and residency money elsewhere. Can I put the 5,500 for a back door roth in there and then the remainder of the fellowship or residency money would I put in an individual 401 k or what in order to not break the pro rata rule. I’m new to this but trying to learn.
You JUST have a 457 with the new employer? No 401(k) or 403(b)? That seems weird. Ideally, you do and you can roll the old 403b and the rollover IRA in there. Of course, you could also just convert it all.
THEN do the Backdoor Roth IRA.
Thank you so much for your valuable content and thoughtful replies!
I have a Roth IRA with vanguard from years ago before I started medical school.
I have a 401k with Fidelity and TIAA both in the target 2050 retirement funds from my training programs.
I started a job in August and was told they would start contributing/I could start contributing to a SEP-IRA after 3 months – they said that “was law” (coming up soon – early November?). I finally have the 5,500 to do a backdoor! I’ve been waiting to do this for years 🙂
Goal is to open a traditional Roth IRA with vanguard and then can roll into my already established Roth at Vanguard.
My 3 questions are – since I don’t know much about the SEP-IRA that will be set up and my office has been very vague about it but I want to set up my backdoor ASAP to take advantage of any growth
1. is there any possibility that the SEP-IRA won’t be able to be rolled into my already established 401k options – as in, do some limit this ability?
2. since work is doing the SEP-IRA am I able to do the rollover to the 401k every year? or once I roll over will it close it? do they have rules where it can only be rolled into a 401k one time?
3. should i just wait until i get the sep-IRA set up … ?
thank you!!
1. You’ll have to do it every year unless you want to wait to do the conversion step in your Backdoor Roth IRA. Make sure the plan allows basically instantaneous rollovers and you don’t have to wait until you leave the employer.
2. Check with work. I think so though with a SEP. I suspect they’ll leave it open, but even if it has to be reopened each year, no big deal. There’s no IRS rule preventing multiple rollovers.
3. You have until April 2019 to complete the contribution step. The conversion step can be done at any time. The Backdoor Roth IRA will be cleanest if you do the contribution and conversion step in this calendar year and the contribution and rollover of the SEP-IRA this year.
My employer provides a SIMPLE-IRA which I contribute the maximum amount to each year. I currently have $372,000.00 in that account. I have a Roth IRA with a balance of $157,000.00. I contribute the max to a non-deductible IRA each year. That balance is $68,000.00 currently.
My employer does not want to switch to a 401K plan.
1) If I’m still contributing to a SIMPLE-IRA I can’t zero that out to take advantage of the back-door Roth IRA conversion.
2) Any other suggestions for me?
Thanks!
Nope. You’re one of a very small percentage of high income professionals who can’t do the Backdoor Roth IRA. One thing you could do, if you think you’ll leave the employer at some point in the near future, is just do the contribution step each year and wait to do the conversion step until you can roll the SIMPLE somewhere else or your employer puts one in place. Don’t know that I’d bother if it looks like this is the long-term situation.
Hi, I just received an email from Vanguard saying that conversions to Roth IRA’s can no longer be reversed. What exactly does this mean and does this have any effect on all the previous post about converting traditional IRA to Roth IRA?
No. You can still do Roth conversions. What you can no longer do is recharacterize them back to traditional IRAs.
For Pro-Rata rule. If I have 2 IRA accounts. One is vanguard, another one is fidelity. I roll over my 401k to Fidelity. But I only contribute after-tax money to vanguard. When I do backdoor in vanguard IRA, will there be Pro-Rata rule issue?
Yes. All IRAs are combined for the pro-rata calculation.
Here is my situation and I would like to get guidance on the approach.
1) Our AGI is above the Roth limits
2) Wife has a traditional IRA
3) She has a 401k through her employer that accepts non-conduit IRA rollovers
I want to do a roth contribution with out tax consequences and here is my question
Is it better to do the tIRA rollover to 401k, tIRA contribution and tIRA->Roth conversion all in 2018 itself? The other option I am considering is
a) 2018 – tIRA rollover to 401k
b) 2019 Jan – tIRA contribution and tIRA->Roth conversion for 2018
Also what forms do I have to fill for tIRA rollover to 401k?
Thanks
Yes.
The 401(k) should have a rollover form on its site. If not, call them. This is all easy to do and you should be able to pull it off by the end of the year, but get started Monday. It doesn’t happen instantly.
I am not getting a clear answer on what to report to IRS on line 15a of 1040 though all of it is a non taxable event.
1) Should it be the contribution $5500 (tIRA->Roth IRA conversion in 2018) + $20K (tIRA-> 401k rollver)? Write the word “Rollover” in the margin next to the “Taxable amount” line though only $20K was rolled over instead of $25500.
2) Fill out 8606 just for the contribution $5500 (tIRA->Roth IRA conversion in 2018) and rollover won’t be mentioned in 8606?
3) Is there a need to skip the contribution of $5500 ( tIRA->Roth IRA conversion in 2018) this year since rollover is happening as well?
I’m not an accountant; I’m just some yeahoo on the internet. But when I have questions like this, I go to the instructions for the form and read them. So let’s go there:
https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1040gi.pdf
Lines 15a and 15b
IRA Distributions
Special rules may apply if you
received a distribution from
your individual retirement arrangement
(IRA) and your main home
was in one of the Presidentially declared
disaster areas eligible for these special
rules on the specified date. Special rules
also may apply if you received a distribution
to buy or construct a main home
in one of the Presidentially declared disaster
areas eligible for these special
rules, but that home wasn’t bought or
constructed because of the disaster. See
Pub. 976 for details.
You should receive a Form 1099-R
showing the total amount of any distribution
from your IRA before income tax
or other deductions were withheld. This
amount should be shown in box 1 of
Form 1099-R. Unless otherwise noted in
the line 15a and 15b instructions, an
IRA includes a traditional IRA, Roth
IRA (including a myRA), simplified employee
pension (SEP) IRA, and a savings
incentive match plan for employees
(SIMPLE) IRA. Except as provided
next, leave line 15a blank and enter the
total distribution (from Form 1099-R,
box 1) on line 15b.
Exception 1. Enter the total distribution
on line 15a if you rolled over part or all
of the distribution from one:
Roth IRA to another Roth IRA, or
IRA (other than a Roth IRA) to a
qualified plan or another IRA (other
than a Roth IRA).
Also, enter “Rollover” next to
line 15b. If the total distribution was rolled
over, enter -0- on line 15b. If the total
distribution wasn’t rolled over, enter
the part not rolled over on line 15b unless
Exception 2 applies to the part not
rolled over. Generally, a rollover must
be made within 60 days after the day
you received the distribution. For more
details on rollovers, see Pub. 590-A and
Pub. 590-B.
If you rolled over the distribution into
a qualified plan other than an IRA or
you made the rollover in 2018, include a
statement explaining what you did.
Exception 2. If any of the following apply,
enter the total distribution on
line 15a and see Form 8606 and its instructions
to figure the amount to enter
on line 15b.
1. You received a distribution from
an IRA (other than a Roth IRA) and you
made nondeductible contributions to any
of your traditional or SEP IRAs for 2017
or an earlier year. If you made nondeductible
contributions to these IRAs for
2017, also see Pub. 590-A and Pub.
590-B.
2. You received a distribution from
a Roth IRA. But if either (a) or (b) below
applies, enter -0- on line 15b; you
don’t have to see Form 8606 or its instructions.
a. Distribution code T is shown in
box 7 of Form 1099-R and you made a
contribution (including a conversion) to
a Roth IRA for 2012 or an earlier year.
b. Distribution code Q is shown in
box 7 of Form 1099-R.
3. You converted part or all of a traditional,
SEP, or SIMPLE IRA to a Roth
IRA in 2017.
4. You had a 2016 or 2017 IRA contribution
returned to you, with the related
earnings or less any loss, by the due
date (including extensions) of your tax
return for that year.
5. You made excess contributions to
your IRA for an earlier year and had
them returned to you in 2017.
6. You recharacterized part or all of
a contribution to a Roth IRA as a contribution
to another type of IRA, or vice
versa.
Exception 3. If all or part of the distribution
is a qualified charitable distribution
(QCD), enter the total distribution
uted is a QCD, enter -0- on line 15b. If
only part of the distribution is a QCD,
enter the part that is not a QCD on
line 15b unless Exception 2 applies to
that part. Enter “QCD” next to line 15b.
A QCD is a distribution made directly
by the trustee of your IRA (other than
an ongoing SEP or SIMPLE IRA) to an
organization eligible to receive tax-deductible
contributions (with certain exceptions).
You must have been at least
age 701
2 when the distribution was
made.
Generally, your total QCDs for the
year can’t be more than $100,000. (On a
joint return, your spouse also can have a
QCD of up to $100,000.) The amount of
the QCD is limited to the amount that
would otherwise be included in your income.
If your IRA includes nondeductible
contributions, the distribution is first
considered to be paid out of otherwise
taxable income. See Pub. 590-A for details.
You can’t claim a charitable
contribution deduction for any
QCD not included in your income.
Exception 4. If all or part of the distribution
is a health savings account (HSA)
funding distribution (HFD), enter the total
distribution on line 15a. If the total
amount distributed is an HFD and you
elect to exclude it from income, enter -0-
on line 15b. If only part of the distribution
is an HFD and you elect to exclude
that part from income, enter the part that
isn’t an HFD on line 15b unless Exception
2 applies to that part. Enter “HFD”
next to line 15b.
An HFD is a distribution made directly
by the trustee of your IRA (other
than an ongoing SEP or SIMPLE IRA)
to your HSA. If eligible, you generally
can elect to exclude an HFD from your
income once in your lifetime. You can’t
exclude more than the limit on HSA
contributions or more than the amount
that would otherwise be included in your
income. If your IRA includes nondeductible
contributions, the HFD is first considered
to be paid out of otherwise taxable
income. See Pub. 969 for details.
The amount of an HFD reduces
the amount you can contribute
to your HSA for the year. If you
fail to maintain eligibility for an HSA
for the 12 months following the month of
the HFD, you may have to report the
HFD as income and pay an additional
tax. See Form 8889, Part III.
More than one exception applies. If
more than one exception applies, include
a statement showing the amount of each
exception, instead of making an entry
next to line 15b. For example: “Line 15b
– $1,000 Rollover and $500 HFD.” But
you do not need to attach a statement if
only Exception 2 and one other exception
apply.
More than one distribution. If you (or
your spouse if filing jointly) received
more than one distribution, figure the
taxable amount of each distribution and
enter the total of the taxable amounts on
line 15b. Enter the total amount of those
distributions on line 15a.
You may have to pay an additional
tax if (a) you received an
early distribution from your
IRA and the total wasn’t rolled over, or
(b) you were born before July 1, 1946,
and received less than the minimum required
distribution from your traditional,
SEP, and SIMPLE IRAs. See the instructions
for line 59 for details.
More information. For more information
about IRAs, see Pub. 590-A and
Pub. 590-B.
Let’s do your questions.
# 1 I think what applies here for conversions is under exception 2 part 3. It says if you did a Roth conversion you don’t enter anything on 15b. It really doesn’t matter what you put on 15a as far as your tax burden because only what goes on 15b becomes taxable. So I’d put in 15a whatever your 1099-R shows and leave 15b blank. I wouldn’t write Rollover because that’s what you do for exception 1 not exception 2. If the IRS wants to know what’s going on, they can look at your 8606. I don’t have my tax returns with me, I’m not sure if I have anything at all in 15a for my usual backdoor Roth IRA.
In your situation, you also have a rollover going on. If they send you a 1099-R for it, then you’ll need to report that on 15a, leave 15b blank and write rollover there.
# 2 You’ll need to document your backdoor Roth IRA on Form 8606, but I don’t think an IRA to 401(k) rollover shows up there anywhere. You just report IRA contributions, conversions, and Roth IRA distributions there.
# 3 No.
Dear WCI. I started a Roth conversion for my wife a few years back (account with Betterment). While she hasn’t worked in a few years, she had worked several years ago and has an employer-sponsored traditional IRA plan (currently holds $4,726), which is just sitting in that account. Can I roll that money into her Betterment IRA, make up the difference to equate to $6,000 limit for 2019, and then convert that into her Roth? Thanks ever much for your sage advice!
Better yet, you can roll the $4726 into her IRA, contribute ANOTHER $5,500 for 2018 and then on January 2nd, ANOTHER $6,000 for 2019 and then convert it all. You’ll owe taxes on the $4,726.
By the way, there is no such thing as an employer-sponsored traditional IRA. Maybe it used to be in an employer sponsored plan, but if it is in an IRA< it isn't there anymore.
Might have been answered, but my wife and I are new attendings and planning to fund backdoor Roth IRAs as you describe above. My question is: If I created an account at Vanguard, can I open both IRAs (and both Roth IRAs) under my account, or does my wife need a separate login/password? Thanks
You wife needs a separate login. She can actually eventually give permission for you to see her accounts from your login, and I think even transact from there. But she’ll need one initially.
Thank you!
Hi WCI. I have just come across your website and I must say this is a great resource and this is a great post-thank you. .I am a first year attending working primarily Locums and so I will be filing a 1099.I have tried looking among the responses here for how a backdoor IRA works for someone working Locums(filing 1099) but have not found many relevant responses. I have not filed for a Sole Proprietorship( PLLC) yet or have an EIN but will be in the next few months. I do not have any retirement accounts and just started researching retirement options.
My questions are:
1- Currently in my position filing a 1099, can I do the backdoor Roth IRA?( i.e open a traditional IRA and Roth IRA and transfer the funds)
2- Can I do it this year before before Dec 31st so that my sum in my traditional IRA is 0? ? Or should I wait until January 2nd like you and do it then?
3- If I could do it this year before Dec 31st, can I then on January 2nd 2019( or sometimes later in 2019) contribute to traditional IRA and then transfer the funds to Roth IRA( do the backdoor IRA again or do I need to wait?)
4- Should I do some have other retirement accounts instead because I’m filing a 1099?
Thanks in advance
It’s no different for an independent contractor working for a locums company versus an independent contractor working for someone else versus a partner versus an employee. Why would it be?
1. Yes. You don’t need a sole proprietorship “filing” (whatever that is) nor do you need an EIN. This isn’t a business associated retirement account like a 401(k). It’s an INDIVIDUAL Retirement Account (technically “Arrangement”, not account).
2. Yes. You can do it now for 2018.
3. Yes. You can do one for 2019 starting January 2nd.
4. Sure. You should also do an individual 401(k). That will require an EIN.
Hope that helps. Y
Thank you for the response!
Before pulling the trigger just wanted to run this by you.
My wife and I both have Roth IRA accounts with Vanguard from when we were in residency. More recently we have 403b contributions. I have a 401K through a previous employer with Fidelity. We don’t have any SIMPLE or SEP or Traditional IRAs.
Our plan was for each of us to open a Traditional IRA at Vanguard, put the $5500 in a money market account, and then the next day covert it to our Roth IRA already in Vanguard. See anything wrong with that?
Also, now that we are both employed by a non profit, can we contribute $18,500 into the 403b and then on top of that do the above Backdoor Roth for a total of $24,000 each?
Lastly, I work part time for the VA and I contribute to the TSP. I don’t see how that is categorized ie 403b, 401K, etc. Can you please comment on how this plays a role?
Thanks very much!
No.
Yes.
Like a 401(k), doesn’t count toward the backdoor Roth IRA pro-rata calculation.
Thanks very much for the response. As we were trying to do the backdoor, we realized that my wife has contributed $4300 directly to a Roth IRA for 2018, when we don’t qualify due to the income limit. Instead of funding the Individual IRA with money from the checking account, can she just roll over the contributions from the Roth IRA into the new Individual IRA?
The correct term is “recharacterize” the contribution from a Roth IRA to a traditional IRA. Wait the required period, then convert it to a Roth IRA. No big deal but recharacterize it ASAP.
Perhaps someone can help out.
I am 40. I currently max out my Employee-401K (We are a C Corp, so I get the Employer and Employee total of $55,000), and I do some side work which I have previously maxed out a SEP-IRA. I would like to start a backdoor Roth.
Between an old Rollover IRA and SEP-IRA I have about $41,000. The pro-rata calculation would make Backdoor Roth conversion a poor choice without first sheltering my IRA money. I was looking into a Solo-401K, however it is my understanding that I could not contribute side hustle money into a 401K, because the $55,000 limit is per person, not per employer. Is this correct? What would you recommend as my best option?
Not sure what the ownership structure of the C Corp is but if you own the whole thing you can’t do both a 401(k) and the SEP-IRA just like you can’t do a 401(k) for each business. So that’s the first issue.
Your main question is what to do with an old IRA. There are four choice. # 1 roll it into your 401(k). That’s a good option. # 2 Convert the whole thing to a Roth IRA. Also a good option, but it’ll cost you something like $15K+ in taxes for the conversion. # 3 Don’t bother with a Backdoor Roth IRA. This is not a great option. # 4 Do the Backdoor Roth IRA and suffer the pro-rata issue. The worst option in my view.
Your money. Your choice.
The $55K limit is per unrelated employer, not per person. See this post:
https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/multiple-401k-rules/
So if you are still doing both jobs AND they’re unrelated (not entirely clear to me what’s going on with the C Corp) then you could do a 401(k) for each with a $55K limit for each. You would still only get one $18.5K employee contribution total though. So one 401(k) would have employee and employer contributions and the other would only have employer contributions. But that’s the same amount of money as you can put in a SEP-IRA, so no big deal.
Thank you for the response. Your page has helped me considerably. I made a lot of the common errors (expanded lifestyle, excessive debt, divorce,) but have managed to redirect my focus thanks to your advice and example and barring catastrophe should be in a profoundly different place 2 years from now.
Fortunately, I was able to find the page on multiple 401(k)s after I posted my question. Unfortunately, I wasnt able to redact or edit my question.
Congrats on your success!
I’m going to be utilizing a backdoor Roth for the first time in 2018 and was hoping for some clarification/validation to ensure I’m doing it correctly and my plan will work.
Background: military ER doc, moonlighting on the side
Previously have contributed to Roth IRA’s for my wife and myself as always below the limit; had automatic deposits set up at a different financial institution that deposited money ($458.33 monthly for each of us) in Jan, Feb, and March before I recognized that my MAGI may be over the limit this year so I stopped them. This summer I felt I had enough financial literacy to break off from my financial advisor at my old institution and I moved all my investments to Vanguard.
I now am fairly certain that my moonlighting income will push me over the MAGI limit so I will need to utilize backdoor Roth. Unfortunately, as above, I had already contributed money to Roth accounts this year.
I have a traditional IRA at Vanguard (a prior rollover from residency) that is in process of rolling over to the TSP – so by Dec 31 of this year that account should have $0.
My wife has no competing IRA’s (only has a Roth IRA at Vanguard).
My plan:
1. Get money out of trad IRA as above (I have no other competing plans that would prevent the backdoor conversion).
2. On Jan 2nd, I will open a traditional IRA at Vanguard for my wife and contribute $4,125 to it ($5500 – the $1375 ($458.33 x 3) contributed to Roth as above) and contribute the same amount to my traditional IRA
3. On Jan 3rd, I will transfer $1,375 from each of our Roth IRAs to our traditional IRA’s
4. On Jan 4th, I will transfer the entire $5,500 in each account back to the Roth accounts
5. Then I will very carefully fill out the 8606 forms following the above post and late contribution post guidelines
A few questions/concerns:
A. Should I actually contribute $10,125 to each traditional IRA account on the 2nd (and then transfer $11,500 from each account back to Roth account the next day) as I am actually doing my 2018 AND 2019 contributions at the same time (with the limit increasing to $6,000 in 2019)?
B. I’m not sure exactly which funds the $1,375 I’ve already put into each Roth account went into – does that matter? Or can I just transfer $1,375 out of the fund I have the most in? If it does matter, I’m not sure how to recall/transfer the money out of those specific accounts and am at risk for being penalized for contributing to a Roth in a year in which my MAGI is too high – any advice?
Thank you for your help!
Why no recharacterize your 2018 Roth IRA contributions to traditional IRA contributions, wait the requisite time period, then reconvert them, perhaps when you do your 2019 Backdoor Roth IRA?
Vanguard can help you do the recharacterization. Not sure how they decide which funds to pull the money out of it, probably pro-rata. I’m sure they have a computer program that figures out how much is gain etc.
Do I call and re-characterize now (prior to the rollover of trad IRA funds to TSP), or wait until after rollover is complete and call and re-characterize in the first few days of 2019? So essentially exactly what I said above, but instead of transferring the $1,375 I will be re-characterizing it.
I’m worried about ending up with that money in a traditional IRA on Dec 31, preventing me from doing the backdoor Roth.
And just to be sure, when you do a backdoor Roth in Jan every year, you are doing it for that year, not the previous year, correct?
I’d try to recharacterize before the end of 2018. The pro-rata rule doesn’t apply until the end of the year in which you do the conversion. If you don’t do the conversion in 2018, the Dec 31st you care about is Dec 31st 2019.
I do my Backdoor Roth IRA for the current year each January, but you could do either or both.
My wife does not have a 401k to roll the money over to. If I re-characterize between now and Dec 31, she will almost certainly have the $1,375 in a (newly opened) traditional IRA. If my re-characterization does not occur prior to the rollover into the TSP (again, paperwork submitted and would expect it to happen in next week or so), I also will end up with the same amount in my traditional IRA. Then we would not be able to do an backdoor Roth conversion at all, correct?
If I re-characterize in January (and had $0 in trad IRA accounts on Dec 31 2018), wouldn’t I avoid this risk?
Shortly after the re-characterization, I would maximize my contributions for 2018 then re-convert both back to Roth.
I would then contribute $6,000 for each of us to the traditional IRA’s and then convert them to Roth’s, leaving $0 in the traditional IRA’s for the rest of 2019.
Filling out the 8606’s for 2018 will be a pain, but from 2019 on this whole process should be much more simple.
Thanks again, this whole situation is complicated…
I’m a little lost here on what’s going on. It’s okay to have money in an IRA on Dec 31 if you didn’t do a conversion in that calendar year. So just recharacterize, keep it separate from the IRA that’s getting rolled over and put off the conversion steps until 2019 and then make sure the 8606 is filled out right.
Okay, I think I understand it now. It does not matter when I re-characterize, or if I have money in an IRA at the end of Dec 2018 (even for my 2018 Roth conversion if the conversion takes place in 2019). After re-characterization, I can maximize my contribution, do the conversion to the Roth between Jan-April 2019 as well as contribute to a traditional IRA and convert it to Roth in the same period for my 2019 taxes/conversion – as long as my trad IRA has no money in at at the end of 2019 both conversions are legit.
Sound right?
My hang up was that I was concerned that if I had money in a traditional IRA at the end of 2018, I would be unable to do the conversion for my 2018 taxes.
Thank you!
Yes. You’ve got it now.
I’ve been doing the backdoor Roth for a while. This is the most straightforward guide I’ve seen. Everyone else seems to make it more complicated!
Yea, it’s really no big deal.
Huge fan of the site. Read the book first and now go to the site for in-depth reading on specific topics.
Quick question, sorry if it has been answered somewhere in the mass of the questions/comments in the past 4 years above.
My wife has a Traditional IRA (about 20K) from previous employers 401K rollover in it. I will not meet the income limit for Roth contributions this year, but will next year. Can I both contribute 5500 directly to her Roth IRA and convert all 20K from traditional to Roth in the same year (and be taxed on the 20K)?
Much appreciated,
matt
Yes.
Great info WCI!
How do I calculate the taxes owed on an IRA prior to doing the backdoor Roth? I currently have an IRA rolled over from an old 401k with about $200K. About $30k of that is gains after the rollover. Or is the better option to just roll this IRA into my current 401k plan?
Thanks in advance!
What you’re proposing is not a backdoor Roth IRA. You’re simply talking about a Roth conversion. Assuming the entire IRA is pretax, then any conversion to Roth is taxable at your marginal income tax rate. Pretax contributions, or earnings in the IRA, or rollover funds, doesn’t matter. Do you know your marginal tax rate?
If you’re in your earning years it probably doesn’t make sense to convert. But rather moving the pretax IRA funds into a 401k via rollover is likely a better plan.
Then, with $0 in pretax IRA funds, you can actually do a backdoor Roth IRA – nondeductible contribution followed by Roth conversion
Value of conversion minus basis x marginal tax rate. So if you have a rate of 28% federal and 5% state, that’s 33% * $30K = $10K in taxes.
Rolling the IRA into the 401(k) involves more paperwork but not taxes. I usually recommend a tiny IRA just be converted and a large one be rolled over. I’d consider $30K to be relatively small, but if you don’t have the $10K, then you may not!
The IRA is $200k. The $30k is earnings. I assume the basis on the rollover IRA is zero so the $200k conversion is fully taxable, way more than $10k in taxes.
A conversion of that amount could easily push someone into a higher tax bracket, into or beyond phaseouts for tax credits, into Medicare surtax and net investment income tax territory, etc. So the calculation of the true marginal rate is more complex would require a lot more info.
Regardless, such a conversion likely doesn’t make sense if someone is still working and has access to a qualified plan where the IRA could be moved via rollover.
Taj if you feel a higher level discussion of this would benefit you I’d encourage you to make a post on the forum.
I assume the basis in the $200k rollover IRA is zero. So the full $200k is taxable on conversion.
Thank you for the response.
I also just opened an IRA for my wife and funded it with $5500 but have not yet purchased anything yet with it. Can I now just transfer the $5500 cash to the Roth IRA?
Thanks again in advance!
Essentially, yes. What you’re doing is a Roth conversion. The mechanics of how you do this depends on what brokerage you’re at. If Vanguard, there are blog posts that show precisely how to do this, with screenshots and everything. There are probably similar posts for Fidelity, Schwab, maybe others.
Why is this not a back door Roth? My understanding is that I may have to pay some tax on a Roth conversion…
A “backdoor Roth” is a series of steps where one who has income above the limit for a direct Roth IRA contribution, and also above the limit for a tax deductible traditional IRA contribution, makes a nondeductible contribution to a traditional IRA followed by a conversion to Roth. Because the contribution was nondeductible, the traditional IRA has basis, so the conversion to Roth is not taxable. It’s like you’re making a Roth contribution, but in a roundabout way, AKA “backdoor Roth”.
If what you really have is a rollover IRA as you describe, then those are pretax dollars in your traditional IRA. This is very common. You certainly can do a Roth conversion, of $1 or the entire balance from your rollover IRA. But the entire conversion is taxable. Because you’re converting the dollars from pretax to Roth.
Hello all.
I have started putting money into Back door after realizing the benefits of it on this website. Thanks.
So I contributed 5500 for me and my wife in March 2018 as a 2017 contribution and rolled over to Backdoor next day.
I contributed 5500 again in December 2018. Should I roll over before Dec 31st into Roth or wait for 2019 to roll over? Or it does not matter?
Thanks for the guidance.
I’d do it now for a cleaner 8606. I assume you reported your 2017 contribution on a 2017 8606.
Oops!!I did not file the 8606 for 2017 contribution.
What should I do at this point?
1040X + 8606 for 2017.
DS – I am in the exact same boat. I did a backdoor Roth in March of this year for a 2017 contribution and then another one this month for a 2018 contribution. I specifically asked my tax advisor about the 8606 form for my 2018 taxes, and he said that it should not be filled out this year but next year during 2018 taxes. I hope that was the appropriate advice. It seems like it will make the 2018 8606 much more complicated since now you were dealing with two years of backdoor Roths. The good news is that going forward from 2019 on it will be much cleaner with just one back door Roth transaction each year. White Coat Investor, do you think this creates any problems for us when filing our 2018 8606 ??
You should have filed form 8606 with 2017 tax return documenting the 2017 nondeductible contribution.
You need to file form 8606 with 2018 tax return documenting the 2018 nondeductible contribution, and the Roth conversion during the calendar year.
The above x 2 if also done for a spouse. 8606 is individual.
Was 2017 the first year you made a nondeductible IRA contribution.
Hi,
I am 1 year out of training and had contributed to a Roth IRA through Vangaurd during my residency training and have not contributed to it since graduation. Roughly have 11k in the Vanguard Roth IRA. Do I have to convert or get rid of that? or can I just leave it alone and still have a “zero” to avoid a “pro-rata” calculation?
What would you convert it to? It’s already a Roth IRA. No, you don’t have to do squat with it. It’s the receiving account for your Backdoor Roth IRA. Contribute to a traditional IRA, then move the money to your already existing Roth IRA the next day.
Roth IRA totals are not included in line 6 of IRS Form 8606.