This one came in via email. I've obscured enough details to protect the innocent.
Q. How Do I Live on $350K in Hawaii?
I am a senior resident in my early 30s with a stay at home partner and three kids, $225K in student loans, planning to move to take a job in Hawaii with a 2-year partner track during which I will make $350K. In preparation for a new level of income, I have been trying to make a spending/allocation plan according to your advice and I am having a lot of difficulty with it. Currently, we rent, drive old clunker cars, and moonlight every chance I get with my total income of 100K per year. I have absolutely no retirement savings of any kind and quite frankly I'm struggling to make ends meet and that's in a non-high cost of living area.
I am living like a resident, don't splurge on anything, never go out, but I do send kids to a couple of extracurricular activities and take 1-2 inexpensive family vacations per year because I simply need them for my sanity. In Hawaii, we will rent, we need to upgrade our cars to something newer ( definitely not new and nothing fancy), we will start paying out loans and our 15K credit card debt and I will have 2 kids go to private school as Hawaii does not have any half-decent public schools. When I make my calculations I again have barely anything left to save for retirement. I look 7 years out and I just don't see it ever getting better. I feel like I will never be financially comfortable, will never own a home, and will never have enough saved for retirement for myself and my husband no matter what I do. I just don't understand where do people find the money to max out their 401K, IRA, and HSA every year let alone fund emergency fund or anything beyond that. What am I not getting? I realize that some physician families make even less than I do, but after taxes, school tuition, loan payouts, and rent in Hawaii I have nothing left. I just can't seem to find the answer. I would greatly appreciate any advice.
A.
Let me see if I can help you wrap your head around this concept.
You spend too much money.
That's it. Seriously. It's that simple.
I don't know exactly where your money is going. And I don't think you do either, but that's why you can't hold on to it.
You Can Do Anything You Want, But Not Everything
This is probably a really good exercise for you to start budgeting with your attending income, but from your email, I suspect this is the first time you've ever done it. That's okay, it's hard in the beginning but it gets easier with time. Budgeting is really just making sure your limited income (and we all have limited income) is going to those things that you value most. What this proposed budget you are discussing is saying is that you don't value retirement or financial independence as much as some other things. That's fine, as long as it is a conscious decision on your (and your spouse's) part to have a long career and an impoverished retirement on nothing but Social Security in order to allow you to live in Hawaii, rent a nice place, drive nice cars, take nice vacations, and put your kids in private school. I know that all of that seems very reasonable to you to do. BUT, the truth is that you can do anything you want, but not everything. You're trying to do everything, and you can't do that and still make any sort of financial progress.
Ideas to Save Money
If you want to see where you can save money, I suggest you actually post your proposed $325K budget on the WCI forum and let forum members pick it apart for you. You can do it all anonymously, but I bet you get a lot of good feedback (and a few snide comments.) Here are some potential places you could save money:
10 Ways to Save as a New Attending
Live in Texas, snorkel Hawaii
# 1 Don't Go To Hawaii
Instead of moving to high cost of living Hawaii where you'll pay a ton of tax, need to replace your cars, and where every vacation off the island will cost you a ton, move to Texas. No state income tax (just saved enough to pay for retirement savings right there), it'll cost you a lot less to move there, and you can even keep the cars you have for a couple more years since you can drive them down there.
# 2 Public Schools
Instead of putting the kids in private schools, you can find the best public school that you can and supplement it with some home study stuff until your student loans are gone and you can splurge on private schools.
# 3 Drive Beater(s) or Bike
Instead of upgrading the cars, downgrade the cars. I'm amazed what some people think is necessary in order to have a “reliable car.” I've had $2K cars that were plenty reliable (had to get one jump start in four years, drove over to AutoZone and got a new battery on the way home.) My next car was $4K. A great deal of the reason I was a millionaire 7 years out of residency on half of your income was that we didn't spend much on cars. Or here's an idea. Ride your bike to work. I did during residency and most of those first four years.
# 4 Avoid Retail Therapy
Figure out a different way to maintain your sanity than retail/vacation therapy. I'm not saying don't go on vacation, but now isn't the time for vacations that involve planes and hotels.
# 5 Crush Your Loans
Figure out a plan to get rid of those loans in less than 5 years. That'll free up a lot of money that can go toward saving and spending. Refinance your student loans and then send them a big check every month. They should be gone in 2-5 years.
# 6 Budget
Sit down with your husband every month and track everything you spend to the penny. I bet you find a lot of fat that isn't making you any happier that you could cut out.
# 7 Be Average For a While
Remember the average American household makes $55K. $55K. That includes lots and lots of people in Hawaii. Go figure out how they do it and copy them. Imagine what they would say if you tried to convince them you couldn't save money on $325K. They'd laugh in your face and deride you as an out of touch elitist. Part of that is they don't understand your big student loan burden and just how much you'll be paying in taxes. But part of it is simply that you spend a ton of money.
# 8 Don't Carry Credit Card Balances
For Heaven's sake quit using credit cards for credit. Pay them off with your first paycheck and never carry a balance again. Interest needs to be something you receive, not pay.
# 9 Fund Retirement Accounts to Cut Tax Bill
Remember that putting money in retirement accounts cuts your tax bill dramatically. So if you put $30K in there, not only do you knock $10K off your tax bill, but you still have all $30K to spend later! [Okay, that last part is slightly misleading.]
Gold Level Scholarship Sponsor
# 10 Spend Less On Housing
Rent a cheaper place. You can move in a year or two. Live like no one else so later you can live like no one else.
Hope that helps. I empathize with you. It's harder than most people think to live on $350K, but it's not THAT hard. You can do it. Just track your spending and meet with your spouse once a month.
What do you think? What advice do you have for this graduating resident (and the thousands of peers with the same question?) Comment below!
Some much needed tough love given there.
By moving to an extremely high cost of living area she is on the wrong side of geographic arbitrage and definitely has decelerated the path to financial independence. By even delaying that step by a couple of years and work in a low cost of living area like Texas as you mentioned, she could indeed literally wipe out her debt in a few years and then set herself to do anything she wants HCOL or not.
If you have more than one child private schools are for the rich. Find somewhere you can tolerate living where public schools are decent.
Have you considered homeschooling? That is a great option especially with a stay at home spouse. There are lots of “cookbook” curriculums out there for the newbie. And some include video teaching so you still remain in a parent role. I personally am a full time EM doc and I homeschool my two children. One has Dyslexia with a Language Processing Disorder and the other has Down Syndrome. They both are thriving on the Abeka Christian based program. I hope you can figure out a situation such that all of you can thrive in beautiful Hawaii.
I was just going to suggest the same! Especially with a stay at home parent – homeschooling is not what most people think! For the OP – there a Physicians Homeschooling group – most of the docs are NOT stay at home nor have a stay at home partner and they are making it work.
Are there home schooling resources that teach science without Creationism? Not every stay at home parent is a Biblical literalist. While the majority of home schoolers are Christian, not all are. The resources for homeschooling seem overwhelmingly geared to that market. Not everyone who wants to home school shares those particular “values or perspectives.”
I’d like to chime in on homeschooling as an oldster. There is a “curriculum” for anyone . And the best part is you get to skip or enrich any aspect you discern to be appropriate for YOUR family. The part I wanted to add is my children went to great colleges and have professional careers. I know people worry. I am assuming intelligent parents and an enriched household with books. If you spend 10% of private school tuition you can do a terrific job and your kids will benefit from your attention. Ok enough. Lots of low cost and free resources: Head to the library and the Internet!
Yep. There are curriculum geared for all. Best part, YOU pick the curriculum. So you can use a regimental guide or freestyle it. Look great resources like others going through the process. Join FB groups many have posted about which ones are strong or not. I choose a cookbook for my first year as I had no idea what I was doing. Then I modified the recipe as needed for my children’s needs. And we actually have more family free time as we are stuck doing “homework” in the afternoon.
That’s amazing you are working full time as a EM physician and still find time to homeschool your 2 children. What an awesome example you are to others especially physicians in time management!
Thanks. It can be done. I work night only Thursday through Sat. Other days are homeschooling days. And my hubby can help too (even though he is Italian and English isn’t his 1st nor 2nd language). I just leave which video they are to watch and I follow up the work that was done. I know I’m not the only one. We have others. Those interested should join a FB group of physician who homeschool.
Life is all about balance. If the scales are being weighed down by the expensive side of each decision, it is no wonder that the paycheck is disappearing.
Also, this couple is thinking about things backwards. They should max out their retirement accounts (at least the 401k) and look at a monthly payment that would have the loans paid off in 3-5 years… And THEN look at their budget. The problem is that they are not looking at those items as non-negotiable. The tough decisions should come after they’ve already made that part of the plan. Budgeting afterwards would be tighter, but it forces them to recognize the right priorities.
TPP
Until you track your spending and budget, you really have no idea of where your money is going. Phrases in the email like ” don’t splurge on anything, never go out” may seem true, but then you look at the budget and you see a $100+ dinner bill. Oh that was when our parents came to town and we took them out . Or you see $50+ dollars on coffee, Well I treat myself to 1 cup a day after rounds…. and so on.
It’s not that this person is lying, its just that they just don’t know where their money is going. Solid advice WCI, I will add the following tip to save money
Meal Prep– make meals for the week in bulk ahead of time and shop at a discount grocery store like Aldi, you can cut your food budget down considerably doing this.
There are no Aldi types of markets. Really, food is much more expensive in general, though there are certainly opportunities to get food on sale at prices that rival food costs in LCOL areas.
Ok so not aldi per say, but any discount grocery store. Certainly food costs may be more expensive in Hawaii, so it will take being more intentional with food shopping and meal cooking if the physician wants to find more money to save.
@Sarah – Bull poop. Unless they move to Molokai, there is Costco. Someone needs to accept the tough love, and saying there is no Aldi provides excuses instead of solutions.
YES! 3 Costco’s and Target and Sams Club on Oahu. And affordable (kind of) apartments. Rent there first, then when you really ARE rich move to Kailua or Ko’Olina or wherever. And your young kids do NOT need private school. Homeschool as above. Or stay-at-home parent volunteers at school a few days a week. Or whatever.
Also- any vacation out of state can cost you $3000 in airline tickets for a family of 4. Pls think twice before doing this move if that is your go to de-stressor.
I was going to chime in with Costco. You all beat me to it. It can be really crowded, but if you shop at off-peak times, it’s manageable.
I also agree that private school is not a necessity, and that homeschooling isn’t required, either. [We do plan to do the latter soon; I’m not dissing it.] But what happens at home matters more than the education that takes place in the schools.
Cheers!
-PoF
I think Foodland is also pretty decent in terms of prices (from my limited experience as a tourist). Costco is a good option too. Also there is a sizable non white population in Hawaii; if there are ethnic markets available in general they tend to have better prices especially for produce.
Many decisions can decrease the amount available for retirement funding. I could have used your 10 suggestions when I was 30.
I’ve had to explain to my wife why we max out the retirement accounts first, to reduce our biggest expense, taxes. Some recent years this has included a 5% off the top 401A plan + a 457 plan + a SEP IRA + an HSA ( Some here find a way to do a back door Roth also).
Between all taxes (federal, state, social security, self employment, Medicare, and property tax), retirement accounts, private school tuition and college expenses above what we saved…we spend a lot.
Consider that in Hawaii, as compared to any other state, you probably don’t need to upgrade your car. No one cares what kind of car you drive. Does it run? That’s all you need to get you and your family to the beach.
It’s interesting timing of this post, because I know WCI usually has a delay between writing posts and when they are posted. Since it’s the end of June, I wonder if the person submitting the question already has rented some sort of expensive place in Hawaii, or decided to move to a neighborhood with decent public schools (they are out there) that other doctors would feel comfortable sending their kids.
Unfortunately getting one’s car to Hawaii can be very expensive. Had a friend who moved there for 5 years. It was a few thousand dollars to transport her car there.
Sell cars on mainland; buy comparable cars on the island.
When you’re done with the car on the island, ditch it on the roadside. I think that’s what everyone does, based on what I”ve seen. 😉
There are SO MANY abandoned cars, especially on Oahu! I wouldn’t be surprised! ?
We lived in a low COL place for 5 years, eliminated student loan debt and built up a decent retirement nest egg, then moved to our preferred medium to high COL location (we are mountain rather than beach people). It’ll be hard to enjoy living in Hawaii if you’re constantly stressed about money.
Keep an open mind about what you really need. Three of our four kids share a room and are totally happy. We had an Accord for several years as our “big” car even with three kids. We waited 9 months after I finished fellowship to buy a second car, even though we lived in a very non-walkable city.
Paying off loans can sometimes feel like you’re throwing money into a bottomless pit. Try to think of it as a workout, in which you’re forming financial muscles that you’ll use for the rest of your life.
Good luck! Being aware enough to know you have a problem is a big first step, and one that some people never even get to.
I just checked the forum and I do not see the OPs budget or actual spending. It is very hard to convince newly minted docs that they do not deserve the “doctor lifestyle”. They are all impatient to start spending. It seems to be very hard to change these ingrained ideas. Like the previous post on the “X-factor” some people seem to intuitively know how to set themselves up for success and many just keep making the same mistakes. They never want to admit they simply spend to much, bought to much house, or live in a high COLA. Until one has an epiphany they will likely keep spending.
We want to move to Hawaii – who wouldn’t? It’s paradise and still the United States … and they NEED doctors.
But now isn’t the time for us and probably not for you – just yet. We actually left HCOL NYC to a cheaper COL for a number of reasons and plan to sock as much away and hope to move there in about 10 years. We are currently debt free and still don’t feel comfortable moving to Hawaii. Good luck OP!
It’s paradise to visitors, but many naively think visiting is the same as living, it’s not. The domestic out-migration is greater than in-migration the past few years. Lots of people, including docs, move but leave within a few years. COL and lower pay is one issue, but over time things just get old or normalized and island fever sets in. There’s a reason a doc shortage exists, and it’s not entirely due to money.
Thank you. I am well aware. We are not dreaming of Hawaii on a whim. I got a job there but timing wasn’t right. I have quite a few doc friends there already. And honestly it is paradise if not ignorance is bliss compared to mainland these days.
I can’t believe this doesn’t come up more often, but I cannot recommend YNAB and Personal Capital enough! I don’t care if you are living paycheck to paycheck, or have already become a millionaire, but the detail and budget tracking capabilities are incomparable IMHO.
I hate saved $40,000 this year using the site and app and I feel completely in control of my budget and spending. I have used Mint and other sites for years, but the ability to sync transactions daily, create as many or few detailed categories and have access 24/7 on the app on my phone is very powerful. I can tell you where every single penny I spend goes to, and I can look at my budget before I make any purchase or financial decision in order to determine if I really should do that/spend that, or, if I’m over budget for the month, where I will get the money from in a different category if I really want to spend that money. You are giving every dollar a job. You only budget what you have now, not what you will have in the future.
The control over financial behaviorism is also very powerful. No matter how diligent, frugal or intelligent we are, we are all guilty of making at least some poor financial behavior mistakes and becoming victims of marketing tactics and schemes to get us to justify spending more money or feeling better about spending money.
You can try YNAB free for 35 days, and see if it works for you. I cannot speak highly enough of my experiences, and the $50 per year more than justifies not only the money I’ve saved, but the feeling of completeness confidence of where every penny I spend is going.
Big YNAB fan. I was debt free – but living on the float. And not conscious enough about my spend. Big change with YNAB. 70+ replies. You gotta get intentional about the spending.
Don’t forget about “offense” changes too. If you are paying all that money for kids to go to private school, often those private schools have after school care for not that much more, could have the stay-at-home spouse take on a part-time job and potentially cover some of those tuitions.
And if the $55, 000 number sounds a little low, Housing and Urban Development lists the very low income level for a family of 5 on Hawaii as about $87, 000. More than 55, but still way way less than you make and plenty of folks survive on it. One approach I’ve done living in a relatively High Cost of Living area with a large family (4 kids + dependent parent) is to start from that sort of number, add required student loan payments, and make my take-home pay budget fit into that. Anything else is a luxury that I am choosing to spend.
I’m familiar with Hawaii and their medical field. I think the OP raises some valid concerns, but hasn’t analyzed the situation deeply. First, doctors get paid less in Hawaii, them making $350k is a blessing. If I were them I would carefully analyze the income potential after the 2yr guarantee, I wouldn’t be surprised if it ends up being lower. I have a feeling the OP is from Hawaii and has family there, they’ll likely need to lean on family for help as that’s how most younger folks get by in Hawaii. The HCOL drains everyone and even though a MD makes a lot more money, they feel the pinch too. Their concerns about public/private school is valid. Hawaii public schools don’t have the best rep and private schools cost ~20k/yr, most people try to send their kids to private school. However, imo, people can be close-minded about it, they blindly believe that public school is bad and private school is good, thinking private school is the cure-all, it’s not. I’d suggest they send their kids public elementary at least, then private school.
They should live very comfortably, they need to get a handle on their budget. 350k after fed/state taxes is ~250k, less 401k/ira is about $220k. 30k/yr retirement savings over 30yrs @ 3% real yields ~1.5M, not too bad. A decent home in a decent neighborhood will run ~1M, 30yr mortgage at 4% is 60k/yr, let’s say 70k/yr including taxes, maintenance, etc. That leaves $150k/yr left over. Subtract maybe another 50k/yr for food, cars (2 $25k cars spread over 10yr ownership plus ins., gas, etc.), travel, life/DI, bills, etc. Now there’s 100k left to go towards loan repayment, education or more retirement savings. That’s plenty.
Echo the above comments about a budget/tracking expenses. Living like a resident and moonlighting like crazy doesn’t add up to having 15k in cc debt and barely making ends meet.
Assuming the environment itself will make your family happy, I’m going to take the counter side here and support the move to HI (money isn’t everything). As Islanddoc points out, you can make the math work. Not going to debate private vs public schools, but suffice it to say that, some extra activities/teaching after school will be a lot more cost effective. If you’re working 3 full months each year just to pay for their school (60k pre-tax), you better be pretty confident about that decision.
Let me take a crack at this.
350K lets say 1/3 goes to taxes. So now around 230K/12 = 19167 per month.
Lets say the following:
Mortgage: 2500
Car payments: 1000 for a couple of reliable cars. Toyota, Honda etc.
General spending like food, clothes, etc 2000/month
student loan 2000/month
Vacation 1000/ month so 12000 per year
Miscl 1500 per month.
So thats’ 10k/month. Lets say there are some thing I did not think off in my 30 seconds analysis. So lets add 2000/month.
That’s 12K per month = 144K per year. 230000 -144000 = 86000 to save. Thats before optimizing you income in pre tax retirement plans.
Perhaps when you pay off your student loans by working a little more or being more frugal you can save or spend (split the difference) a little more.
86000 compounded over 25 years at a 6% = 5,001,448.91 dollars. Most likely more but lets say you have 5 million at 65 taking out 3 to 4 % each year and adjusting for inflation plus SS. I think you are living well.
Lets say you payed off your student loans and lived on 1/2 of 230000K. In about 18 years you are free and have financial independence.
Thanks WCI, This is great. I run across this very scenario so many times. Everyone always thinks they have no place to make cuts in their spending. I become the bad guy when I tell them they need to make cuts and then I make the suggestions. Now I will just have them read this blog and ask them what they think. You have saved me a ton of discussion.
Dr. Cory S. Fawcett
Prescription for Financial Success
These kind of posts are tough for me to understand.
We talk so much about the big-ticket items like houses/cars, but I think a huge amount of financial success comes at the setup stage: selecting a job with 1) adequate financial compensation in 2) a low COL area with 3) good public schools and 4) ideally manageable taxes.
Look – $350k is a great income for anyone, including a physician. I applaud this resident for at least trying to think about her finances, moonlighting to supplement income, not spending on luxury cars, and overall making some right moves … but if you can’t save on $350k you clearly have a flawed budget and haven’t taken a hard look at where your money goes. I suspect she hasn’t actually sat down and analyzed her prior year credit card budget and actual amounts spent on food, travel, etc.
Offensively:
Residents need to start planning out their attending budgets before they go on the job hunt, IMO. I wrote a budget with retirement savings built in before I started searching for a job, so I had a minimum target income in mind before I selected my attending position.
Defensively:
No matter how you slice it, if you’re struggling on $350k this is where most of your problems lie. It amazes me how many people 1) insist on living in a high cost of living area 2) insist on living in an area where “the public schools aren’t good enough” and then seem shocked when they struggle financially.
Living in Manhanttan, San Francisco, and Hawaii are conscious choices that you pay for. Doesn’t matter where your family is from or the amenities you were used to growing up. Those are just excuses. And it kills me every time I see physicians with kids choose to live in areas with poor public schools (although generally most friends I know exaggerate how bad the public schools are, and just want to send their kids to private school so they feel like they’re giving them a leg up). And generally the people sending their kids to private schools insist on the expensive ballet and piano lessons that clearly no child should grow up without. It’s a mindset – people who think poorly about these issues tend to not realize how expensive their vacations are, or how much they spend on food without realizing it, etc.
There are millions of people living in LCOL areas sending their kids to public schools who are doing just fine. If you can’t seem to give up the vacations to “keep your sanity” or insist on newer 5-figure cars and dining out, then you have to build wiggle room into your budget by choosing your job and where you live carefully.
I feel pretty educated to discuss I’ve lived in Hawaii twice, but now would only choose to vacation there. Usually CME type stuff.
1. Hawaii is gorgeous. Absolutely fricking beautiful….
2. But so are sunny or powder days in the mountains of CO, UT, WY, etc…
3. You think this boils down to money. You couldn’t be more wrong.
4. See #3. Your happiness has NOTHING to do with salary so to be honest painting this as a economical situation instead of a sociological one suggests you are quite naive.
5. The SOLE and yes I mean SINGLE determinant about whether or not you live long term in HI is depending on this quality, depth and amount of friendships you make there. That is it. No offense to Anyone else but I’ve lived there twice and anyone who tells you otherwise is blowing smoke up your ass.
6. People and relationships trump scenery every single time
7. People and relationships trump scenery every single time
8. Jim, You’re a nice guy, but framing this as a economical essay is poor form. The writer doesn’t understand yet that the eco mics will pale in comparison to the sociological aspects.
9. I suspect this comment will be deleted or negatively commented on based on that this doesn’t jibe with group think here.
Why would it be deleted? Have I deleted your comments in the past?
It’s a financial website. So that’s the perspective we look at things through here. Obviously there are more important things in life than money.
Good points. Hawaii is a unique place with a unique culture with many longstanding local ties and way of doing things. White folks are the minority. Many people who move to Hawaii are considered outsiders and aren’t easily accepted into the community, it could take years. Add in the distance and time difference between transplants’ mainland family and friends, the feeling of isolation, and ‘paradise’ can get old quickly. Many think they’re going to be the exception to this, but most aren’t.
I think the emailer should be commended for thinking ahead. It’s clear to me budgeting is on his/her mind.
Couple things I’d like to add, having lived in Honolulu for two years:
1. There are good public schools here, especially elementary. Transitioning to private school for high school or junior high is pretty common. Our kids started private school here in 4th and 6th grades, after going to public school on the mainland.
2. Housing is very expensive here, even to rent. Expect to pay $4k to $6k per month.
3. BUT–you can live here on a budget. There are less expensive grocery stores, like Times and Foodland Farms. We don’t shop at Whole Foods. Restaurants are very expensive, but the emailer eats at home. And buying a used car here is a perfect idea. I have only bought new cars, but when my current 7 year old car kicks the bucket, I’m totally buying used.
4. And the beautiful thing about living here is that vacation is all around us, and it’s free! Day trips to the North Shore or just a local hop to the beach. Yeah, it’s expensive to travel back to the mainland to visit family, but living here, you tend to be the host, not the traveler!
Go for it. You’ll find a way to make it work.
ok. I moved to Hawaii with my family last year and we are doing fine. I feel like I NEED to respond to this post.
1. Where in Hawaii are you moving to? Honolulu has a very different cost of living index than Hilo, Big Island. So that’s the first question. Next is, do you have family in Hawaii?
2. Are you moving here because of how wonderful Hawaii seems or because you want to be close to family and friends? Big difference.
3. Not all public schools in Hawaii are bad. Scout neighborhoods and live where the schools are better. Then supplement with PARENTAL teaching and other resources. While almost everyone makes every effort to send their kids to Punahou (in Honnolulu) you do not HAVE to..
4.This is a response to Jim’s comment: most people in Hawaii are NOT making 55 grand. That would be poverty. Most people (and almost everyone in the family) have multiple jobs and families live together. Multigenerational living is the norm here. Kids get married and stay with parents. Grandparents watch the kids and when they are older, they do not have to go to assisted living. Family takes care of their elder ones. I LOVE THAT about Hawaii. The culture is more Asian and people care for their own. We should all learn from that. It’s partly culture, partly economical necessity. You see many seventy some year olds driving Uber. Not for fun, because living in Honolulu is hard – for everyone. But if you making $350K are going to complain to locals, you will make very few friends.
5.If you have NO reason to move to Hawaii other than ‘it’s paradise’, you should move to a lower cost of living area before getting rid of your debt. We moved here when we were debt free. It was a very clear and calculated decision. We still live frugally but life is TRULY magical here and it is a fantastic place to raise your kids (kids bike/walk to school and you are not freaking about them getting shot at school) Hawaii has the highest gun ownership and least gun violence in the US. Go figure. Every weekend is a trip to beach to paddle board, swim, snorkel, hike, go to local free Hula shows. you name it. I NEEDED a vacation when we lived in the mainland because I always felt like I was running out of a burning building when my vacation neared. Now I NEVER feel that way. Not a single day have I felt stress like I felt in California. My only stress is if I do my long run today, do I get to join the kids and hubby at the beach or should I go home and do laundry… We calculated our finances so when we moved here I was able to work PART time. Again another plus if you are moving to a place that you want to enjoy your time. Hard to do rat race and enjoy the beach if you don’t have time to enjoy it….
Now as for the question of ‘how do people save for retirement?’ with all due respect, that is a very stupid question.
You maximize everything BEFORE the paycheck gets to you. The money you don’t see, you don’t spend. I don’t know how you ended up with 15k in debt in credit card. I have to imagine that you don’t have a saving problem, but you have a spending problem. I know having kids can be expensive. But you budget.. You can’t pull yourself out of a hole if you are in credit card debt. Go to the first 5 podcast that White Coat Investor has done and stick to his recommendation like the gospel. There are people in your situation that are NOT making $350 a year. There is a light at the end of the tunnel.
In short, I want to tell you that moving to Hawaii is not a pipe dream. In life you can have short term plans and long term plans, given your situation currently, moving to Hawaii should be your long term plan. Pay off your debt and THEN move here.
You can do it. We did it. We are extremely happy. I would do it again in a heart beat. Whether we stay here when we retire is debatable, but it is not off our radar to have a multigenerational home with our kids to help them get on their feet when they are young families. Then they care for us when we become debilitated like so many families do here….
Don’t give up.
Thank you. This is the kind of post I set out to write, and you did it far better than I did.
One more comment…
When we were moving here, I was on many FB groups and I heard so many horror stories about people not treating you like you belong here.
This is really a poor statement. You need to respect and adapt to this culture. This culture does not need to respect and adapt to you if you are acting cocky and indignant. We have embraced the locals and they have embraced us back a 100 times. People tell us, you are blending here so well because the way you treat others. I would argue that this is true no matter where you live. My brother lives in Indiana, people in the Midwest are wonderful and warm and welcoming, but I would never live there because of their conservative thinking and politics. Does that mean EVERYONE in Indiana thinks that way? No. But I promise you if I moved there with a ‘better than thou attitude’, I wouldn’t be welcomed there either.
You not belonging somewhere, sometimes says more about you than it does about them. I have moved all over the US and I believe this to be true.
Hawaii is unique because they have a strong Pacific and Japanese culture. I find this culture loving, inclusive and warm. If people don’t feel welcomed here, they are denying this culture not the other way around.
This is 100% accurate.
Thank you for all the comments. I am the person who wrote the original email to WCI and I’m grateful for everyone taking their time to comment. To address some questions people raised, we do budget and account for every penny every month. We also made the decision to move to Hawaii not lightheartedly understanding all the shortcomings we will face. Without going into much detail we are moving to Hawaii for their unique culture and mentality and not only the paradise weather. We are immigrants and don’t always feel welcome on mainland and Hawaii was welcoming and inclusive every time we visited. We have some friends in Hawaii who’ve encouraged us to move and we don’t have any family we are leaving behind on mainland. Our mindset is that we live once and we don’t know what will happen tomorrow so we are making the move now while we have the opportunity. I’ve taken into consideration all the advice offered by WCI and others who commented and while homeschooling is not for us, we certainly consider public elementary schools before going private.
Mahalo everyone,
And Aloha!
Keep us updated about how things go over the next few years!
This is a good reminder that some readers look at these “case studies” theoretically and forget that they involve real people and real life situations.
OP,
Good luck with your move. As you have stated, the decision to move has already been made…for a whole host of reasons. That’s fine and I hope you enjoy it. Obviously there are a lot of details you left out from your life, but there are very good solutions.
Although I can’t directly speak for all public schools in Hawaii, I would be willing to bet you can find one that is at least decent. It may require you to commute more, but we all take the good with the bad in our life decisions. I would be willing to bet that the vast majority of successful physicians, lawyers, and other entrepreneurs went to public schools. I know I for one did….and I feel like I turned out ok. I could currently afford to send my kid to any private school I want, but they are/will both attend public schools. There are advantages and disadvantages to that decision, but I’m confident they will do well with their lives.
The biggest question I have is about your spouse. It really sounds like your spouse needs to start helping you out. Whether that be spending less money, budgeting better, helping educate the kids, or getting a job, I don’t have the answer for you. But if you are making 350K, even in Hawaii, your spouse needs to be working with you toward achieving mental, spiritual and financial success. You CAN have all of those things. Good luck!
Thank you for your comment! To answer your question, my husband has been a huge help during residency. He took a year off work to be a stay at home dad when our third child was born during the toughest year of my residency and now opened a business. So he is helping, however his income is much lower than mine at this point and with the move we might have to give up the small business he has here and start something new there. We never know how things will turn out, but conservatively I’m only counting on my salary at least in the beginning. You know how life is… just like a box of chocolates, you never know which one you gonna get 🙂
Aloha!
You will be able to make it work – it’s just a matter of figuring out where the money is going. I went back and looked at my records and the first two years in Hawaii we saved 130k for retirement and paid down ~160k in loans. Salary was in the 300-350 range and we had purchased a million+ house (1700 sq ft, built in 50’s) so we could be in a neighborhood with good public schools. The elementary school our oldest went to is always ranked as one of the top schools. We rationalized buying rather than renting because of the way the real estate market was trending and because there were very few rentals in the school districts we had identified. When we left Oahu a couple years after arriving, we came out ahead. I wouldn’t recommend that strategy, we got lucky. Rent to start – we were looking at a different part of the island anyways within a year.
We are pretty frugal, but that fits in well in Hawaii – nobody cares what kind of car you drive. All the best things to do are free – hike, swim, go beach or play in the water (although watersports can require some gear). Costco is Costco. Distances are short so even though gas is expensive, you don’t drive much. Making 350k you’re still making a crap tonne of money.
The public/private school thing is tricky. We were underwhelmed at an excellent public school in Honolulu and looking to switch to Punahou for the 4th grade. That said, we now live on the mainland in a city with excellent public schools that outperform the local private schools, with both kids in enriched programs/magnet schools and are still pretty underwhelmed. I now think it probably doesn’t matter. In Hawaii the difficulty is that a large proportion of the bright kids are looking to go to private school after elementary school, because of the reputation of public school. There’s a bit of a brain drain. I knew a 2 physician family with 3 kids in public school, and their other, smart, kid in private school. I’m sure private school is financially a waste of money when characterized as an “investment” which is the usual paradigm here.
I’d recommend public school to start, with a plan to possibly switch later on as you get a better feel for things (4th or 6th grade, when they have more openings). If you’re kids are already older, I don’t know. Lots of people with money get their kids in early because there are not standardized tests (that they worry they wouldn’t do well on). If your kids are smart I wouldn’t worry about it. We were also planning to switch the kids later because we’re haoles and while we experienced racism exactly zero times during our time on the island, it can be an issue for paler kids as they get older. That said, the beauty of Hawaii is that it is so multi-cultural that despite kids saying dumb things to one another occasionally, race is rarely an issue for adults (unless you are jerk and looking for trouble).
Enjoy it – it truly is the greatest place we’ve ever lived. It really is dependent on the connections you make and we were very fortunate to fit into our community rather quickly (but I think that was because we fit in with the culture in general). We moved back to the mainland to pursue my ambition and it was the right move for my career, but our hearts still live in Hawaii. Aloha.
Thank you so much for your thorough reply. I know we will love living there for however long we end up staying there. I was wondering if you could please elaborate on a couple of things:
1. How did you go about buying the house? We figured we will rent for the first year or at least till the loans are paid out. We currently have no down payment saved of any kind.
2. Which public school did your oldest child go to? Have you heard good things about Punahou or Le Jardin academy? Are there other good but cheaper private school you personally heard of?
3. Your numbers for the first two years look impressive. My calculation don’t add up at all to that number. Would you mind sharing your retirement saving strategy for those two years?
Thank you again!
Hi,
We live in Honolulu, in Kaimuki, above Diamondhead. I have a trustwrthy realtor that I could put you in touch with. Coincidentally, you could “meet” him if you check out HGTV Fridays at 9pm. We helped him shoot a pilot and he was picked up for a season. The show is called “My Aloha Dream Home.”
Pretty much your standard HGTV real estate show, but Wayne is really great. Knows the area and happens to be an attorney, so he knows the law, too.
Anyways, I’d be happy to chat with you about schools, areas, rentals, etc. maybe we can get WCI to share my email with you. He has my permission. ; )
Aaron W
Thank you! I emailed you and would love to talk and ask some questions when convenient. Let me know!
Kate
1. You should totally rent first. We were fortunate enough to borrow money from family. Interest rate we paid them was comparable to typical non doctor loan mortgages. The discomfort in borrowing money from family stimulated us to be even cheaper and pay it back aggressively.
2. We loved the elementary school’s community and we are in a place now with apparently excellent public schools and they seem the same (not overly stimulating for smart kids). Not going to stain the school.
I had friends who sent kids to Mary Knoll and were very happy (it is a bit cheaper/smaller). We were between Punahou and Le Jardin. We figured Punahou might be too big and also that it was probably riding on reputation a little bit. We liked IB program at le Jardin – we are familiar with it from our home country.
3. Retirement saving was straightforward. Max out 403 (there was a percentage match from employer also) and had access to a 457 for another 18k. That all came off before pay check. Backdoor Roth IRA we set up with Vanguard (thanks WCI!).
Our two cars were worth less than 5k combined. Drove one literally until it would not run and got it towed from my house. We were very very cheap with the exception of our mortgage. I would echo the WCI maxim of “live like a resident”. Again, recreation is cheap jn Hawaii so your quality of life will not be impacted at all by not spending much money. The big variable for saving will be the school question.
Good luck!
Thank you! One last question, have you heard which public schools might be better and will prepare children to enter good private middle schools? I’ve been doing research but rankings are conflicting so I’m trying to gather as many opinions as possible.
No one could answer that accurately. I just took a look at greatschools.org and saw a bunch of hihg-rated elementary schools listed that I’ve heard (from family, former teachers, etc.) were good. I’d start there.
Punahou is arguably the most competitive and desirable school in the State, many parents go thru great lengths the get their kid in there. The fact that only you mentioned there and Le Jardin makes it seem you haven’t really researched this much at all, there’s many other good private schools worth considering. However, it seems you’re now considering public school which I would fully recommend.
I don’t know, we did a lot of research when we lived there and ended up at Punahou vs Le Jardin as well… I don’t think that’s a crazy conclusion to come to.
It just seemed like the OP threw out school names that are often parroted by people who may not really know or people who have a narrow point of view (I know a few like this). Those are fine schools, but there are many other good schools. I’m surprised Iolani wasn’t mentioned. There is a cohort of parents that view a place like Punahou as the only school worthy of their child and go to great lengths to get their kid in there. Yet, talking to more open-minded parents, teachers and alumni, there really isn’t a huge difference between many of these private schools.
Man, it’s so tough to know what’s the right thing to do when you’re 7,000 miles away. I remember 2 1/2 years ago, with acceptances from MidPac (which we favored), Mary Knoll, and Punahou in hand, and having no idea what to do. Based on advice from my future chief at work and others, we chose Punahou, which was 100% the right thing to do for our older kid. The younger one? Not sure. Parenting is hard.
I make $90k in Hawaii. I have $480k in debt. My spouse does not work (but volunteers more than I do). We have two children who swim, do gymnastics, play piano, speak two languages, and more, and we are surviving in Hawaii. The only reason you wouldn’t make it here (on $300k!!) is if you stuck to all the overpriced superficial lifestyle choices you apparently seem to want to make.
Tips:
1) Avoid Honolulu. Suck it up and commute. You can cut housing expense (by FAR the biggest expense) in HALF by doing this. Better yet, just don’t come to O’ahu! Go to another island if you really want to save. Plus, even if you feel you can rent in Honolulu for some crazy reason, know that you will NEVER be able to BUY there. Your children will never be able to have a “home” there and have all that entails, should you at some point decide you want to settle in Hawaii permanently.
2) Avoid private schools. I visited many of them and interviewed parents, teachers, and students. They are over-hyped and the public schools overly denigrated (universally by the private school gang). At the elementary level, the only things the private schools offer in any real way over public schools are: a) foreign language instruction, and b) better disciplined children (meaning less school time wasted on discipline). While those are great, they’re not enough to justify another $40k ($20k per child). At the middle and high school levels, the private schools start to edge out the public schools more. In fact, at the elementary level, I like that the public schools are much more diverse, down to earth,and emphasizing aloha (while at home we stress our children out about academic knowledge and future resume standout stuff or entrepreneurship).
3) Rent in the best public school area outside Honolulu, to get your kid into the school automatically (by living in the district), and then move out of that expensive district right across the border to save again on housing costs.
4) Never eat out. Virtually ever restaurant (with food of any nutritional value, I mean) abuses tourist pricing to an extreme. Bag lunches in the fresh air can actually be quite wonderful in this climate, as can a simple evening picnic on a rooftop or a beach. We violate this rule, but only on rare occasion (like if we’ve been volunteering all weekend, it’s already 7:30pm, we have nothing prepared at home, and we’re standing next to a restaurant).
5) Take advantage of local community extracurricular offerings. My daughter’s swim team is crazy good and fun, and she’s all into it. That’s our most expensive extra, at $75/month. Gymnastics is cheap due to the low rent they pay for their gym up in the mountains, tennis through a community program is $20/month, dance through a community program is only $20/YEAR, and nearly everything else is through the school and free, (though we’re expected to volunteer our time). Ah, well, piano is expensive at $40/lesson, but that’s only 1/week and supplemented by my wife’s home instruction. The beach is free, or costs gas/electricity. Same for hiking. The botanical gardens are free. Our special-offer and Kama’aina family zoo membership costs $55/YEAR plus gas/electricity.
6) Don’t use air conditioning except in the summer. You really don’t need to. A cheap Home Depot fan plus labor for installation is enough and buys itself back in two months’ savings. This cut our electricity bill in half.
7) Avoid tourist shops and expensive stores like ABC and Whole Foods. We go to Whole Foods for fresh fish, but for virtually everythings else (bread, fruit, veggies, etc.) we go to Target, Foodland, or some other cheaper place. Foodland has better produce, anyway, largely from its “local” emphasis and favor with local growers. If I’m getting something canned or with big, tough rinds, I might get it at Chinatown, too (not too far from where I work).
8) CREDIT CARDS for flights. We get a credit card for bonus miles, use the bonus miles, and then drop the card. Then we get a different card for bonus miles, drop the card… You get the idea. Yes, this means we might have more credit cards at one time in Hawai’i than we’ve ever had anywhere else, but we have no actual credit card debt (we always pay it off fully), and making sure we cancel the cards to avoid hurting our credit scores too much. (We don’t use our credit scores for anything, really, but might want to in the future.) We do have one card with a reasonable limit and no maintenance fee that we keep permanently, just in case we need it – and to use internationally (no foreign transaction fees and the like). This credit card juggling has saved us around $1,000 on flights per year. Some would say it’s not worth the headache for such small savings, bit at $90k total income per year, that’s more than a 1% raise. Oh, and that’s also ignoring the fact that some cards can get you free checked bags (which can really add up). Good cards for bonus miles are the Arrival Plus and Hawaiian Airlines cards from Barclays, and the United Airlines Explorer card. You do have to spend to get the bonus miles, so it’s not always worth it, but for your MOVE it is. You will definitely spend over $5k in the first two months here.
9) Book flights for middle-of-the-week and at least ten months in advance. We got FOUR round-trip tickets to and from NYC for around $1,000, before applying credit card miles. My friend bought tickets only three months in advance, for weekend travel, and got only two tickets for the same price.
10) Get your Hawaii resident card for resident rates. After doing that, then get annual family reaident-rate memberships at places like the zoo, sea life park, etc. if you think you will go to the at least twice per year. We also waited for special offer deals. We pay about $100/YEAR for all our family to attend these kinds of places. It did require two days of headaches going to the Satellite City Hall (to get our resident cards).
11) Don’t buy a new car. I always buy used. If you plan on public parking a lot, go for an electric or plug-in-hybrid car for the electric plates (free parking, notably including for up to a month at the airport). Plus, electricity is cheaper than gas. We have two cars: one short-range pure electric ($7,800) for soccer mom local activity, and one extreme-range plug-in hybrid ($16,000) for trips to other parts of the island or of uncertain duration. Both used (but in amazing condition and I paid to have them detailed inside and out before showing them to my wife, who then thought they were new…) so both are the top trims and have all sorts of cameras, electrical sockets, USB capabilities, leather, and other bells and whistles. Another option is to LEASE such cars, new, and take advantage of tax credits (which don’t apply to used cars). Then, in 2-3 years, you can lease a different one after the tech has improved. IF you don’t follow tip 1) and live into Honolulu, then buy only one car and use public transportation and, for short trips (or fun), bicycle. Better yet, if you are in Honolulu, buy zero cars, rent out your parking space if you have one (!), pay for rental cars/Zipcar/whatever for trips to the North Shore and the like, and pocket the profit. Any parking I Honolulu is of value – I know one guy who has two spaces and rents one. He gave himself a raise!
12) If ever using Uber, also check Lyft. Hawaii has both, and sometimes the prices vary by over 300%. Both are always much cheaper than standard taxis. Plus, the drivers are often locals with nuggets of info on, say, schools. I learned some hushed-up dirt on Punahou that would have landed big names in prison and really made me think twice about its golden reputation.
14) IF you go private and your kids are elementary age (or younger), look into the religious schools. They have even BETTER discipline and aloha than the secular privates, and are often HALF the price. We do pay for our preschooler to attend a local Catholic school, and while we’re not Catholic, we LOVE the school and its community. We hear the religiousity (yes, I invented that word) gets extreme at high school, but in preschool? They’re learning the alphabet…
15) I have more tips, but this list is already too long.
If you can’t make it on over $300k, I really have to wonder about choices you make. Sorry, but it’s true. Remember, we have MORE debt than you do.
Thanks for sharing!
Thanks for great advice! We will keep all those suggestions in mind. I believe finding a rental will be difficult so we can’t be very picky with locations. As of right now it seems that Kailua and Hawaii Kai are the best options and have somewhat decent public schools. As much as we don’t want to pay for private schools it is very concerning that all of the physicians we ever spoke to who live on Oahu send their kids to private schools and insist that public schools are bad. Our kids are little and likely will be fine in elementary schools, but the pressure to get into private school is real.
As someone who has lived on Oahu all of my life, as soon as I read that you want to live in Kailua and Hawaii Kai, I already realized the problem: You want a lifestyle that you can’t afford at this time.
The best public ELEMENTARY schools – on O’ahu – are:
1) Ka’ohao School, in Lanikai/Kailua on the Windward side. This I consider tied with #2 below in terms of the actual school, but I bump it to #1 because it is more affordable in terms of rent/mortgage. A part of that is that Geographic Exception (attending while living outside the district) is possible at this school, whereas GE is virtually impossible at Waikiki Elementary (#2 below). High scores, solid teachers, medium to high discipline among students, and the town itself help make this #1. One distinction this school has is its teacher assistants. There is approximately one assistant for every two classes, shuffling between the classes. This basically halves the student-teacher ratio when the assistant is in the class. There are also dedicated teachers for “extras” like music. Other public schools simply have regular teachers teach other subjects on the side, (sometimes regardless of their expertise…). Like Waikiki Elementary, Ka’ohao is great also because of its location and town. The town of Kailua is cleaner and has a safer feel than other areas mentioned in this post. The district park (about a 10-minute bike ride or 2-minute drive from the school), has an enormous swimming pool with what I think is the best swim team in Hawaii (producing Olympians, and clearly with the most camaraderie), tennis courts with a nearly free tennis program, and all sorts of other activities (dance, basketball, etc.) not directly related to the school. The school’s sheer physical proximity to these offerings, and closeness of community with the town of Kailua make this school stand out. As a plus, the school is also a 5-minute walk, and it’s a pleasant walk along a bike path in a beach park. The school also has a separate, dedicated assistant for special needs children, and is a very progressive and “green” school. It won a national award for it’s environmental programs. Unfortunately, the school recently scrapped its Spanish program, which helped it stand out in the past even more. (Very few public schools have any language program.) It also starts school on August 3, which catches mainlanders by unpleasant surprise. I also personally find the climate of the Windward side to be among the best on the island. Perhaps I should have mentioned this earlier, but Ka’ohao is also the only school on this list that is a charter school. My experience with the schools in Hawaii is that charter public is generally better than normal public, and the main reason is: the teachers. Teachers WANT to teach at Ka’ohao because of the way the school is governed and generally treats the teachers. Teachers are given more flexibility in their teaching styles and curriculum (within certain boundaries), and generally have more of a “say” in what happens at the school. In short, the school is more self-governed. This means that the school also has greater freedom in selecting its teachers, with supply and demand economics in its favor – so usually only the best public teachers teach here. Also, the charter designations offers financial freedom to an extent. Example: less money on school lunches and a few other tidbits means more money to pay those assistant teachers I mentioned. While the parent involvement in all the schools on this list is good, I find it superb at Ka’ohao – lots of volunteerism and such. One other negative, however, is that much of the school population, like at Mililani (below), is military. I consider it a negative because it artificially inflates test scores (children educated in other parts of the world) and increases transiency (kids’ friends disappearing). It can also be a positive, of course, in that I find the military parents to prioritize education to a surprising degree, and often comes with better discipline among children.
2) Waikiki Elementary School, in Diamondhead/Kapahulu in east Honolulu. This is the most expensive to attend, in the form of rent or mortgage within the district. Do not attempt to live in a “nearby” district and get Geographic Exception (GE) – the waitlist is over two years long (and growing). This school is both academically impressive, with caring and intelligent teachers and medium-to-high discipline levels among the children. Like Ka’ohao, it is also progressive, mildly “green,” and served extremely well by its location. Within a one mile radius are: the Honolulu zoo and its playground (both GREAT for kids), the nicer end of Waikiki beach (with surfing, volleyball, and other activities for kids and adults), Kapiolani Park (nearly across the street, with art fairs, marathon finish lines, concerts, kids’ soccer teams, cultural and ethnic events, Holiday celebrations, etc.), the Queen’s Garden (across the street! But surrounded by fast traffic…), the Kapahulu library, and Diamondhead Crater. Like at Ka’ohao, the learning at Waikiki Elementary I extends beyond the school. It’s also closer to where most people work. Finally, if you can swing it, you can live in this district and also be in one of the best middle school districts (Kaimuki) and high school districts (Kalani) simultaneously, without ever having to move. The major downsides are: it’s still very much in the city (whereas Ka’ohao is quaint); you will most likely never be able to buy in the area, unless you have around $2million just for a downpayment; you have to be more wary of tourists and homeless (more of them), and; personally, I find this area to get extremely hot, especially in the most affordable parts of the district (inland, in the dirtier areas with houses scrunched up next to each other and farther from all those goodies I mentioned).
3) Mililani Elementary School. Lots of military children attend this school, which has the best climate of all the schools I visited. Up in the mountains a bit, the air is cooler, and the area seems less densely populated. This area is distinctly suburban, with some town center areas… It’s a big uglier than the other places on this list, in terms of the housing I mean – but the school boasts some of the best academic scores in the state. Also, the area seems less prone to disciplinary issues that interrupt learning. A lot of the high scores and discipline may be from the fact that the population is military (kids educated outside of Hawaii, lots of turnover in student population), but, regardless, it results in that kind of an academic environment for your child.
4) Noelani School. This is the “politicians'” school, known for educating the children of notable (within Hawaii) residents. Having visited it, viewed classes, and talked with parents, teachers, the principal and others, I think it’s the same as the others – if not worse. It’s kinda like the “Punahou” of the public school system – riding on reputation and names, and with kids relying on the same (as opposed to their own discipline and failures for achievement). That said, it is still on this list as an excellent school! I openly admit that I am prejudiced against this school for the blatant snootiness I experienced twice there, but… It’s a good school. Also, the town is very much like a California suburb you see in movies, if you like that lifestyle. This school is the de facto go-to school for when you want your child to be surrounded by a certain class of the population without paying for private.
5) Nuuanu Elementary. The smallest school on this list, in a tiny community tucked into a rainy valley, Nuuanu struck me as very tight-knit, nearly 100% Asian, and very cozy. The whole place feels like a warm cabin in cold woods, or a big comfy blanket – hard to explain. Academically very good, with a good robotics program and kids who seem quite disciplined and curious, with parents who care, this is a solid choice. The big downside is that it is a bit isolated, even if so close to downtown Honolulu on the map. Two other things that make this school stand out are its award-winning robotics team and Japanese program.
HThank you so much for your reply! This is such a helpful information!!! We are looking at all these schools right now and the ones you mentioned definitely made our list of potential neighborhoods to live. Would you be able to comment on schools in Hawaii Kai? Also, there is another school in Kailua that is highly ranked, Ka’elepulu. Do you know anything about it? Lastly, St. Andrews private school… appears cheaper than other private schools but is it any good?
Thank you!
Hawaii Kai is a planned community originally led by Kaiser, and it shows. It’s a bit better, well, organized, than many other parts of the island, which can reduce traffic and just make it feel more “open” than it is. Also, in Hawaii Kai there are lots of waterways leading to the ocean, and if you have the money you might even be able to find a house with a dock/boat slip on one such waterway. It’s one of the few ways to get any kind of boat “parking space” anywhere on O’ahu, as the two main harbors in Honolulu have a waitlist and the harbors outside Honolulu are too far, are invitation-only private clubs with hefty membership costs, or have nearly as long waitlists. Sorry, getting off topic… Anyway, Hawaii Kai is pretty nice, I guess, but requires a lot of driving everywhere, unless you’re willing to seek out your own little niche a bit farther inland from the main highway that goes through it, (though I guess every part of Hawaii requires a lot of driving). It’s also hotter and drier than, say, the Windward side (or the valleys of Honolulu – certainly Nuuanu). As for the public schools out there, I didn’t see them, sorry. None really came up on my radar after initially looking at test scores, others’ reviews, and word of mouth. That said, in retrospect I believe I made a mistake not looking into them more closely, because wayyy out east in Hawaii Kai I’ve noticed excellent test scores – and I know those areas aren’t full of military or other short-term transients importing education from elsewhere and artificially inflating scores. So the schools themselves must be doing something right with the kids who are born and raised there, or moved there from elsewhere for the long-term. At least, that’s how it looks on paper. One thing to keep in mind, though, is that commuting east-west or west-east is a lot worse than commuting north-south. The H-1, the biggest artery of all of Hawai’i state, is notorious for having some of the worst traffic in the country, and I can tell you from experience that North-South is a lot easier. If you go way out east in Hawaii Kai, it could mean a commute of over an hour one-way (or even more, depending on where you work). I havvvve heard that Hawaii Kai in general is “up and coming” and that people are moving out there for something more affordable but just as good if not better than where they were – including the schools, presumably. Also, there are some Hawai’i-rare ethnicities that seem ever so slightly to be in greater numbers there. For example, I’ve heard that a bunch of Russians (normal Russians, not oligarchs from the news) are in Hawaii Kai (and Honolulu proper), and a small collection of Germans and other Europeans (or mixed-Europeans). I feel awkward writing that, because we’re probably talking about a 1% as opposed to a 0.5%, but hey, every little bit counts. The vast majority are still run-of-the-mill Hawaiian islander mix, which is a big melange of Oceania, Asia, and North America. Finally, Hawaii Kai is close to Hanauma Bay (good snorkeling, if not on a weekend/holiday – crowds) and boating (as opposed to swimming) in the ocean. Hawaii Kai is a big area, so different parts of it will feel different (particularly when comparing inland/mountain and seaside/waterway). Some say Hawaii Kai is growing too fast and is the “next Waikiki,” though some say the exact same thing about the Kailua/Lanikai area. (It’s said with derision, as Waikiki beach – meaning the main tourist strip by the jetties – is widely regarded by most of the state to be an invasion of development that has replaced green with gray, aloha with greed, and so forth).
Now, your mention of Hawaii Kai reminded me of another area I surprisingly forgot to mention: KAHALA. In between Diamondhead and Hawaii Kai is the Kahala area, which includes Kahala proper and very exclusive and expensive gated communities in and around it (Black Point, Portlock, and ridge communities). I could write a full article on all the gated communities both by the beach and up the mountain in that area, but this thread is about education first and foremost… I still mention Kahala here because Kahala Elementary is also another good school, and probably should have been on my initial list. It’s also an interesting mix of true locals and uber-wealthy “converted” locals (mainlanders who have moved here indefinitely or for, say, 10-30 years, as opposed to more transient mainlanders and military, who typically disappear after 2-4 years – like in Mililani and Kailua). Since Kahala is the extreme rich end of O’ahu, the children tend to be from families that care about education quite a bit – or are surrounded by such people, even if the neighbors and sports teammates go to private school. I was impressed not only by the students’ organization and discipline there, just by watching them stay in lines and listen to teachers – but also their participation. The atmosphere is one of simultaneously friendly fun and responsibility, much like the other schools on my list. Also, because of the general wealth (both of money and time, with non-working spouses and such), there is a decent amount of parent involvement and support for the school – even rivaling Ka’ohao. Despite the mega-mansions, I did not find Kahala to be too snooty – at least not around the school. The facilities of the school were good, too – not as intense as private, of course, but good. The principal made an extremely good impression on me, also, particularly when two adorable girls came up and starting asking her advice and questions about some school event that they were helping plan. The location is good – not as close to the zoo and such as Waikiki Elementary, but not as far as Hawaii Kai. There’s also the enormous Kahala Mall, which is one of the biggest (the biggest?) in the state, and is much cleaner than many others. Generally, Kahala is a relatively clean and well-kept area (except north of the mall, by the highway). The downsides are that each house is like an island of its own – a mansion hidden by hedgerows or stone walls taller than I am (basically a contemporary mini-castle of security for the wealthy), which gives the whole area a bit of an unwelcoming feel. Also, Kahala is HOT. I mean, it’s more like a desert on that side of the crater – and the beaches are full of foot-cutting reef even in the shallows, if you want to swim… It’s not lush like the Windward side – certainly not as lush as valleys like Nuuanu. As a school, Kahala Elementary probably be somewhere high on my list, like #2 or 3, and I apologize for forgetting it. Oh, but one caveat: if I remember correctly, and the student:teacher ratio was >20:1. I think it was the home life of the Kahala families that led to the students being relatively patient and respectful, not so much teacher control. Also, the COST. Kahala Elementary may be public, but homes in that area are between $2M and $20M, and even $2M gets you a 2-bedroom tear-down (seriously), and even outside the school district the prices are kinda the same because it’s still all the “Kahala Area” and wealthy people buy there just to be in that economic circle. Kahala is popular with leaseholds, however, so that’s an option. (Basically, you pay $300k and get to use the property for 10 years – just an example. It’s effectively long-term rent. You have to vacate at the end of the 10 years, or buy, if the landowner lets you and doesn’t try to gouge you. That can be a way to get a luxury property and “break in” to exclusive communities, but can also be a huge financial trap. Usually, leaseholds wind up going to elderly who frankly don’t think they’ll live another 10 years and want to splurge while they can.)
Ka’elepulu. YES, Ka’elepulu has an excellent reputation and competes with Ka’ohao. Well, they don’t really “compete” – everybody’s friendly – but you know what I mean. They’re practically next door to each other geographically, and they’re both good public schools. Ka’elepulu is further inland, by Enchanted Lake (which has a canal going to the beach by Ka’ohao – you can see it on a map). Ka’elepulu is known for having “good” kids (largely meaning better-disciplined and inquisitorial or interested in learning and doing good) and for having good teachers. Ka’elepulu is also less transient – more locals and long-termers as compared to Ka’ohao, which has many military. Also, Ka’elepulu is not in Lanikai, which is probably the second wealthiest area on the island after Kahala (or even tied for first). Both schools suffer from traffic problems. Ka’elepulu was actually recommended to me after I asked people about Ka’ohao, basically as an alternative of equal standing. One thing: do not confuse Ka’elepulu Elementary with Enchanted Lake Elementary. They are different, and Ka’elepulu has the slightly better reputation. They are both on Enchanted Lake, however, and very close to each other. … Ka’elepulu is said to be very friendly and with big focus on ohana (family) and kokua (really means help/assistance, but kinda extended nowadays to mean care/stewardship). I think it’s viewed to be a little less superficial than Ka’ohao, but from what I saw Ka’ohao was just as authentic – it was just that sometimes a military father would be away or something like that. If I remember correctly, Ka’elepulu also has Pre-K, which Ka’ohao does not, so if you have a tiny one, that’s something to consider. Ka’elepulu doesn’t have the green awards or certain other accolades Ka’ohao has received over the years, but it edged out Ka’ohao in STEM scores last I checked – AND keep in mind that the school is probably more the cause of those scores, since less of the student body is transient/short-termers. If you find yourself comparing Ka’elepulu to Ka’ohao, one key factor to keep in mind, which I mentioned before, is that Ka’ohao is a charter school, while Ka’elepulu is not. That can be good or bad – personally, I prefer charter for the reasons I mentioned earlier.
Speaking of charter schools, there’s ANOTHER I forgot: the University Laboratory School, which is also a charter school. This school is known primarily for three things: 1) its affiliation, official or otherwise, with the University of Hawaii at Manoa (arguably the most prestigious university in the state, and with reason – an entirely separate discussion); 2) its emphasis on STEM, particularly the Technology part (with electronic devices in the classroom, etc.), and 3) the fact that it’s a charter school and was once an “experiment” of UH-Manoa. Oh, and it also has excellent test scores. In my mind, I also think of the location – it is basically across the street from a big part of UH-Manoa’s campus and, as such, opens up an enormous wealth of extracurricular opportunities for children, particularly activities that are hard to find elsewhere on the island. High-quality music schools and programs, for example, are extremely hard to find on other parts of the island, whereas the Manoa valley has several, and UH-Manoa hosts children’s competitions and non-competitive performances. Language instruction, too – for any language other than Japanese or Chinese – is hard to find elsewhere on the island, whereas UH-Manoa has students from all over the world, some of whom are happy to earn money on the side tutoring their native languages – and in some cases, the University teachers and teacher assistants will get involved with the Laboratory School. Also, at one point the Laboratory school had access to science resources at the University, and could take the little ones to the science buildings – I presume they still have little “trips” like that? Alsooooo… I know that charter schools in general sometimes have field trips that other public schools don’t have. I know Ka’ohao has taken 4th graders to the Big Island and to Kaua’i in the past. Not sure about the Laboratory school… As for climate and geography, the Lab School is in the Manoa valley, so it gets rainbows practically every week and is cooler. It has an extremely faint rain that comes almost daily, and is more lush – but of course lacks a beach and is a bit farther from things like the zoo. The grass is often wet, and Manoa Falls (a famous hike to a waterfall) is in that valley. Also, the valley is distinctly “California suburban,” just like the valley around Noelani Elementary – soccer mom territory. Many of the wealthy local Hawaiians live there (in a humble way, as opposed to Kahala), as well as a large population of elder Japanese retirees. Honestly, the University Laboratory School has a lot to offer because of its location by UH-Manoa. UH-Manoa is basically THE place for anything related to theatre, dance, music, science research (including agriculture, marine biology, etc.), and world languages other than Chinese and Japanese (so Spanish, French, Russian, German, etc.). Oh, but the biggest drawback by far is: the cost. Yes, it’s public, but it’s Geographic Exception list is long and buying a house in Manoa Valley – more specifically in the district – is going to mean an asking price of $2M – $10M. The prices rival those of Kahala. Oh, but UNLIKE Kahala, in the Manoa Valley you can more realistically do the “rent in, move out” trick, because there are cheaper valley houses not too much farther away at much lower cost (whereas in Kahala you can’t escape the high prices unless you get a 1-bedroom under the highway…).
St. Andrews. I was very impressed by the school – much more than I expected. I visited it twice – once to learn about the school, and a second time when the SSAT was being administered there. First of all, the campus is gorgeous, despite the fact that it’s right in downtown Honolulu. The Catholic stone architecture is the first thing you notice about it. Being a Catholic school, the students were also very disciplined, freeing up nearly every minute for instruction. Even outside after school, they were immediately doing their homework and talking about class material – something less often seen at most other schools. (I suppose that can be good or bad, depending on the kids’ needs for play or fun after school, but “work now to play later” is something I like to see at a school.) The negatives of St. Andrews are: the single-sex education, as there’s a girls’ school and a boys’ school, but the schools are separate and distinct, (oh, and everything I’m writing now is about the girls’ school, by the way – I never saw the boys’); location, which though a positive for many a would-be commuter, is also a negative because downtown Honolulu has homeless, druggies, crazy drivers – it’s downtown and very urban (except on the beautiful school grounds), and; the Catholicism, which is also a positive, too, but for some can be a little “too much” at the later grade levels – and people still fear scandals that the Catholic church is now rather known for, if you know what I mean… The religious teachings are actually just right for the school, in my humble opinion, but if you are worried about that aspect of the school, know that it’s more or less a factor of how old your child is. The frequency and intensity of the religious teachings increases with each grade level, as the student matures and develops his or her own mind.
On the topic of private religious schools, other excellent ones are: St. Anthony’s, again in Kailua (which includes pre-K); La Pietra in Diamondhead (all girls, much smaller than the otherschools), and; Maryknoll (which goes all the way through 12th grade, had excellent reviews, and includes some rarities like flying classes – yes, flying as in piloting a plane). Oh, and Iolani is technically a religious school, too, though I think that’s been fairly downplayed there. Iolani is known for its strict academic rigor (the whole stereotype of the Chinese girl pressured into violin and piano, but only after math), while Punahou is known for its whole-character “open” concept and athletics (and scandals, I’ve discovered). For private, the “big three” are Iolani, Punahou, and Kamehameha. I assume you’re excluding Kamehameha, as it’s open only to those of at least partial Hawaiian ancestry.
Here’s a too-long-didn’t-read version of a revised list:
WINDWARD
1. Ka’ohao = charter, progressive/green, teacher assistants, excellent test scores, parent involvement, libraries (school and town), and district park (including tennis and good swim team), military/transients, new principal next year (just learned this), moderate to high cost, beach, tourists, theft, small town feel if east, fun, 4th grade field trip, somewhat bikable, mostly safe, geographic exception possible, emphasis on stewardship
8. Ka’elepulu: same as Ka’ohao but: not charter, fewer teacher assistants, fewer military/transients, farther from non-school goodies, more “local,” lower cost, has pre-K, maybe smaller, near lake, less traffic, fewer tourists, emphasis on stewardship, arguably more bikable because of fewer tourists and less dense suburbia, moderate to high cost, geographic exception possible
WAIKIKI
2. Waikiki Elementary = progressive/green, excellent test scores, parent involvement, zoo, library, aquarium, beach, Kapiolani Park (festivals, marathons, etc.), urban, tourists, traffic, theft, high to insane cost, fewer military/transients, good district for middle and high school, fun, emphasis on stewardship, bikable depending on location, geographic exception nigh impossible
MANOA VALLEY
3. University Laboratory School = charter, STEM with emphasis on T, excellent test scores, maybe Japanese but in any case close to UH-Manoa: language, music, art, tutors, and too many other things to list (think: full university), waterfalls, rainbows, lush, wet, Japanese/Chinese retirees, might have a field trip, emphasis on achievement, high to insane cost, geographic exception nigh impossible
EAST OF DIAMONDHEAD
4. Kahala = super-rich, foreign money, walled-off homes, prestige, good kids, desert-like, no shade, would be bikable but for the heat, big mall, beach with hidden rocks, district park next to school (notably tennis), emphasis on prestige but accepting differences, high to insane cost, geographic exception nigh impossible
?. Hawai’i Kai schools = on the rise, planned community, waterways, boats, intra-island movers, close to Hanauma Bay (somewhat) Sandy Beach… little known about actual schools, but test scores high, moderate to high cost
ISLAND CENTER
5. Mililani = military, excellent test scores, cooler climate, distinctly suburban, far from most else (beach, zoo, etc.); good district for middle and high schools (Mililani High School = #1 public), fewer tourists, some run-down areas, moderate cost, isolated feel, geographic exception possible
NUUANU AND NEARBY VALLEYS
6. Noelani = politicians’ children, California suburban, moderately lush, rainbows, sports, school awards, robotics, fewer tourists, safe, moderate to high cost, geographic exception nigh impossible
7. Nuuanu = tiny, quaint, good for bicycling/walking, nearly 100% Asian, robotics, Japanese class, deeply lush, waterfalls, quiet, zero tourists, safe, moderate cost, isolated feel, geographic exception possible
REASONS FOR PRIVATE (elementary level):
– language other than Japanese or Chinese
– dedicated music program with dedicated music teacher
– dedicated science program with dedicated science teacher
– lower teacher:student ratios overall
– prestige
– certain rare sports like gymnastics, archery, and water polo
– if you want it, religious affiliation
– if you want it, single-sex education
You can supplement public school with private tutors, but qualified tutors can be rare – particularly for music and for foreign language other than Japanese and Chinese. Plus, these schools already have so many other activities surrounding them – whether it be swimming, tennis, robotics, or dance, plus homework and driving to and fro – that it’s hard to find the time.
I do know families that live and attend schools in the Windward area, but commute their children to private activities in the Manoa valley. A better solution other parents have arranged is self-organization: finding other parents with children who want the same extracurricular, and offering a tutor multiple students to compel that tutor to travel to them.
What about Wilson elementary?
Thank you for your comprehensive review 🙂
Don’t know anything about Wilson, sorry!
Omg! Your answers are amazing! Thank you so much for taking your time to write it all out. I’ve learned so much from what you said. I don’t mean to be bothering you over and over again but one more quick question. Could you please comment on two more private schools. We applied to Mid Pacific and Le Jardin as well. They all seem like good schools and the choice will be so tough. We have three kids so only the oldest will go private for now, the youngest will go public. So we have to choose both a good public school and a good private school and a rental house that won’t be too far from schools and from work. I know, it’s probably too much to ask for.. Thanks again! I really appreciate your help!
What about Wilson elementary?
I live in Oahu and this is the most comprehensive list EVER!
Don’t know anything about Wilson, sorry!
It’s funny. It’s rated 10 in great schools in Oahu. It’s above kahala. As comprehensive as your research is I’m surprised you don’t know anything about a school people fight to get a GE to get into.
I’m sure there are a whole bunch of schools I missed. Wilson seems to be one, and perhaps I’ll look into it.
Wilson was never mentioned to me by anybody before now.
I also forgot to mention Hokulani and Wai’alae, but this is an online forum and I’ve been writing off the top of my head from what I remember, so bear with me. Plus, I’ve been trying to focus on the ones I personally considered the best. Public rankings are usually test-score driven. There’s more to it than scores, and I’ve been incorporating that stuff into my own subjective rankings. I’m assuming the OP is going through all kinds of websites and such to learn about these schools. My input is just that – my input alone.
Some quick responses:
Le Jardin: extremely expensive, and competes with the Big 3, but is in my humble opinion wayyyyy different… The reason is primarily size and location. Le Jardin (or LJA for Le Jardin Academy) is smaller, and you feel it. It’s geographically vast – might actually take up more space than Iolani with its fields and such – but has a smaller number of students. Punahou = around 4k students, Iolani = 2k, LJA = 1k. So LJA is about 1/4 the size of Punahou. At Punahou, a student can wander around and not know a whole lot of people. Not so at LJA – it’s a smaller community. LJA in fact emphasizes this, and the whole place is like a big family. They also form the “elite” parents of the Windward side, as LJA is basically “the” private school – the only one – on the Windward side. That’s not, in fact true, as there is St. Anthony’s and a few other schools that are just as good as LJA in a lot of ways (I believe), but LJA clearly has more land and resources, and is one of the few non-denominational schools on the Windward side. Being on the Windward Side, LJA is also predominantly white, as opposed to Asian. It also would mean living in suburban Kailua/Lanikai, which for many is a plus over the urban areas around, say, Punahou, and, especially Iolani. (Iolani is right by the Ala Wai golf course, which is surrounded by a fence on the other side of which is usually homeless… and the whole Ala Wai area there is kinda dirty and hot – Iolani itself and the golf course being the two breaths of fresh air.) I know that LJA also makes a point of (an attempt at) integrating itself with the greater Kailua/Lanikai community, allowing that swim team I mentioned earlier to use its pool for certain events (e.g., an all-night swim-a-thon that I presume the District Park wouldn’t allow for liability reasons) and simply participating in community events (setting up tents at the I Love Kailua fair and such). I think the school wants NOT to come off as elitist, and to be more down-to-earth (even if parents are paying $20k+ per kid). Personally, I know some parents of LJA kids and they are really caring and kinda family-oriented people. They wanted their children safe, in a tighter-knit cozier place, and not in the urban concrete jungle of Honolulu. On a related note, the LJA campus is gorgeous – I was downright awestruck by the views when there – and has wonderful climate (wind from being on the windward side, and a little cooler from elevation). It’s also tucked away from basically everything, which is good (safety/peace), but also bad (soccer mom dropoffs and such – kids can’t realistically bike to school due to the highway one has to get to get to the road). Also, and maybe I shouldn’t be typing this (?), but I heard rumors that LJA might be seeing financial trouble on the horizon. As I said, it’s a relatively small private school with an expensive curriculum (need IB teachers and such), with a lot of real estate (expensive to maintain), and the school has had to raise tuition drastically in the last two decades (though I guess all the schools have). Let’s just say LJA is not at all eager to hand out scholarships or any kind of financial aid. Now, actually, the biggest distinguishing factor of LJA, apart from all of that is actually:
The IB curriculum. Often promoted as such, LJA is one of the very few International Baccalaureate (IB) schools in Hawai’i. Indeed, at the high school level I think there are only 2 such schools in the whole state. (There are more at the elementary level, but they’re surprisingly hard to locate – I don’t know why they don’t advertise more.) If you are from outside the U.S., you probably already know all about the IB curriculum, or have at least heard of it. For those true Americans among us who have never heard of it (sorry for the geopolitical poke), what IB means is this: (A) your child will much more easily be able to get into (and survive academically in) a school abroad, including college/university, and particularly in western Europe, and (B) the curriculum is just flatout harder. Sorry, but it’s true. We are talking about international standards for students who want to go to, say, Oxford, or the polytechnical institutes in France. It’s somewhat standardized, at a level above most U.S. standards – and by “above” I mean more material in less time (sheer volume), and more in-depth material. At the elementary school, for example, a typical U.S. math question (particularly in Hawai’i public school) might just ask “What’s greater, 3/7 or 5/12?” An IB math question might instead give you a significantly longer word problem, and you have to figure out that what you’re supposed to do is determine whether 5/12 is greater than 3/7, and then do that, and then explain your answer in words. At the high school level, IB is often compared to AP (Advanced Placement) courses, and one easily understood difference there is that the AP scores multiple choice questions whereas the IB is all (or nearly all) essays. I heard one LJA student complain about the IB curriculum in particular because it was “hurting his GPA” and thereby hurting his chances of getting into his colleges (ironically, in his opinion). I also heard that the IB curriculum can be so stressful and time-consuming that it can preclude the student from other growth opportunities – and maybe even stifling the student’s ability to identify him/herself, leading to a drifting or conformist future with no real trajectory. In other words, the student might not have time to experiment with different things in life to figure out what he/she wants to do and may become qualified to do. Actually, Iolani has been criticized for that, as Iolani has historically had a rather classical/traditional rigor to it that would grind and exhaust students – to the extent that by the time they got to college, all they wanted to do was collapse or go crazy. Returning to the IB curriculum… IB is also touted as more “international” and “cultural” and such, but, when the tires hit the road, that’s not the real difference (the academic volume and depth is); the non-IB schools are just as “international” and “cultural,” especially in Hawai’i! If there’s one thing your child will learn in just about any school in Hawai’i, public or private, it’s multicultural acceptance and mixing. The whole state is one big melting pot/salad bowl, particularly O’ahu. Now, that said, the IB curriculum does wind up leaning toward Europe with its international-ness, whereas other schools lean more toward Asia/Oceania. So, if you want your child to learn French and not Japanese, for example, or to learn more about ancient Rome and Greece and less about the Phillipine voyages and ancient Hawaiian Gods, as a second example, then you’d probably want to choose LJA.
Mid-Pac. Mid-Pac is redheaded stepchild of the private school family. Iolani and Punahou graduates like to poke fun at it in a “cute” way, (which Mid-Pac graduates appreciate about as much as your average female appreciates catcalls). Mid-Pac will be accused of being a “consolation” prize or a backup option, which is entirely false – especially in light of the fact that many parents would prefer that their child get an equal education with a better attitude at Mid-Pac than at, say, Punahou or Iolani. Mid-Pac IS a bit smaller, but it still has over 1.5k students, so… still big for an under-undergraduate. I do work with one fellow who has two children, one of whom went to Mid-Pac and the other went to LJA. He said he favored LJA initially, but learned to love Mid-Pac even more over time – though a lot of it was personal and related to his kids. The LJA child has some serious problems… While the Mid-Pac’r is a golden child with a brighter future than his own father (ha!). Honestly, it’s just an example of how much depends on the child, not the school. From what I heard – while I don’t remember the details – Mid-Pac sounded like a solid school with wonderful teachers. It might not have all the offerings of, say, Punahou, but it comes close! If it has everything you need, it’s on equal standing for you. Mid-Pac also has a gorgeous campus in the Valley (I love their main building), and is protected away from the urban hustle/tourists/theft more so than Iolani/Punahou/St. Andrews. I do also know that Mid-Pac stresses a liberal arts education, with more creativity/art/theatre/etc., kinda in line with Punahou and a bit in contrast to Iolani, but that’s more marketing and an attempt at distinguishing itself than anything else. Honestly, the other schools have the same “creativity” aspects. Personally, I think the simple geographic difference (valley vs. urban city) is more distinguishing.
One last thing I should mention is: 4th Grade. If you have a child going into 4th grade, know that all the public schools in Hawai’i (including the charter schools) treat 4th Grade as the “Hawaiian” grade… Kids learn Hawaiian history, some Hawaiian language and music, and a surprising amount of agriculture/horticulture, not as much geology/island formation as I think they should include, and (depending on the school and its resources) have field trips to other areas (from simple farm plots to neighbor islands). Ah, but virtually all schools – public and private – have cancelled any trips to the Big Island, what with the volcanic eruptions… This is both good (where else is your child going to learn this? – it can expand perspective), but also bad (comes at the cost of, say, instruction in a more widely used language and more widely known history).