By Dr. Leif Dahleen, Columnist
In real life, I don’t talk about money with many people, but there is one retired couple that I discuss dollars with rather freely. In recent years, as I’ve broached the subject of early retirement, they’ve taken a little more interest in what I’m doing, and have taken a closer look at what they’ve been doing. As you might know, I am a Do-It-Yourself (DIY) investor. The man in the couple I’m talking about is a DIY master in many ways. He repairs things. He designs things. He builds things. Then he remodels them. He built a complete 24′ by 30′ workshop for the sole purpose of building more things. Above that workshop, he built an efficiency apartment, complete with dormers, a kitchen, and bathroom. It’s quite a place. But he’s never been a DIY guy when it comes to money. He understands it well and taught me some valuable lessons over the years. He was a business owner and had to hire someone to manage his businesses’ retirement plan for him and his employees. After retiring, his retirement savings continued to be managed by the same financial advisor.
Which Advisor Would You Choose?
In the six or seven years since he retired, the company that managed his money was sold or merged with another company two times, but he kept the same advisor whom he had grown to trust. Rather abruptly this fall, his advisor resigned, and he was offered two new names from which to choose.
How do you choose an advisor? You can meet face-to-face with each and develop your own set of criteria. Do we share the same vision? Will he consider my input? Does he have enough gray hair? Do we share the same alma mater and root for the same teams?
Actually, a better place to start is by looking up the names on BrokerCheck by FINRA. That is what this particular gentleman did. Guess what? Neither of the two names had a clean record. One had been terminated for “VIOLATION OF A PROVISION OF THE FIRM’S COMPLIANCE POLICIES AND PROCEDURES.” I didn’t use ALL CAPS for emphasis – that’s just how FINRA states it.
The other (I’ll spare you the lengthy ALL CAPS) listed the following allegation: “Customer complaint alleges unsuitable purchase and sale of annuities resulted in undisclosed surrender charges and unforeseen tax obligations resulting in damages of approximately $37,000.”
Which advisor would you choose?
A Look at the Retirees’ Portfolio
In the past, I had casually mentioned to the couple that it wouldn’t be too difficult for them to manage their own nest egg if they had any interest. It would also save them some money, of course. How much? Well, we didn’t really know until we took a closer look at his current investments and fee structure.
The portfolio under the microscope consists of two tax-deferred IRAs and a joint taxable account. Fees consisted of the expense ratios of the funds, and a management fee that was believed to be 0.5%, which is what it was when they signed on.
Browsing through the 3/4″ thick packet from their most recent biannual meeting, we could see that the management fee (which was 0.5% six years and two companies ago) was now 0.73%. Funny — there was no recollection of that fee increase ever being discussed.
This is what they had in each of the accounts:
- IRA 1 had 3.5% of the assets and held 16 different funds.
- IRA 2 held 83.8% of assets in 22 funds.
- The taxable account held 12.6% of the assets in 10 funds.
Since there was some overlap, altogether they held 48 positions in 28 different funds. Let’s take a look at the details.
I determined the overall allocation to be roughly 47% US stocks, 14% International stocks, and 39% bonds. I would consider that an appropriate asset allocation for a couple that would expect to live another 15 years based on actuarial tables, but possibly 20 to 30 years based on current health and family history.
I would also consider that to be a really complex and costly way to manage a 60 / 40 portfolio. I showed them my portfolio, and I shared with them these links on the three fund portfolio:
- Bogleheads Wiki: Three-Fund Portfolio
- Bogleheads Forum Thread: The Three Fund Portfolio
- Financial Page: Three Fund Portfolio Update
- Morningstar: 3-Fund Portfolio the Simplest Way to Best Return
- Portfolio Charts: Three-Fund Portfolio
- Wall Street Journal: A Portfolio That’s as Simple as One, Two, Three
I offered my assistance in making a transition if they were interested, and gave them some time to mull it over.
They didn’t need much time.
When they came back to get the ball rolling, I showed them one more link and told them what I’d been up to in my spare time over the last year. That was a fun “reveal”.
The Proposed Fidelity Three Fund Portfolio
All three existing accounts (two IRAs and a taxable account) were with Fidelity. While I have mine with Vanguard, I had read about the recent lowering of fees in Fidelity’s index funds. Indeed, when I did my own discount double-check, the fees were a hair lower at Fidelity. I also realized the transition would be a bit quicker and uncomplicated by sticking with Fidelity. Furthermore, Fidelity has branches you can walk into, staffed by humans at desks, and you can sit across from them.
We decided to remain with Fidelity.
Our goals were to keep a similar asset allocation, rebalancing to 45% US stocks / 15% International stocks / 40% bonds using these three funds:
- FSTVX — Total [US] Market Index Fund
- FTIPX — Total International Index Fund
- FSITX — US Bond Index Fund
Another primary objective was to reduce fees. Based on the existing average expense ratio of 0.64 and a management fee of 0.73%, their current fees were nearly $22,000 per year.
Switching to a three-fund portfolio using passive index funds to arrive at our desired allocation would bring the total annual fees under $1,000 per year, a savings of $21,000 per year. Of course, that $21,000 would be well spent if returns outpaced the indexes by at least 1.5% a year. The odds of that happening, and happening repeatedly, are exceedingly small.
Glancing through the investment performance packet, their portfolio had returned 2.2% over a trailing three year period net of fees. The same paperwork showed the S&P 500 returning 8% over that time frame (although it was actually 8.7% with dividends reinvested). International funds and bonds were relatively flat, but a 45 / 15 /40 mix would have returned between 4% and 5%, which looks pretty good compared to 2.2% (or 3.6% before fees).
This is what the proposed portfolio looked like.
We started with a call to Fidelity. The representatives were quite helpful, guiding us through the process of opening new accounts and transferring the money from the managed accounts to the newly created accounts. All of the mutual funds remained the same during the transfer.
Once the funds were in the new accounts, the fun began. I was the token oblivious loud guy on his cell phone you see on television. BUY! SELL. SELL! BUY! YES! MORE FSTVX! I was doing it with a mouse and computer, and no one was listening, but I barked out the orders just the same.
Some funds could be exchanged for new Fidelity funds. Others had to be liquidated to cash in the account followed by purchases of the new Fidelity funds. Some settled more quickly than others. I logged in daily for about a week to mop it all up.
In the IRAs, we did not have to consider tax consequences. The taxable account was less straightforward. For better or worse, there were actually a number of funds with capital losses.
It’s worse because we did this with the market at record highs, and most of these funds had been held for some time. I was not expecting to see losers. It’s better because we were able to take some losses to offset the gains, exiting most of the mutual funds with minimal tax consequence.
In the end, we were left with two mutual funds with mostly long-term gains of about $15,000 between the two. To sell would trigger a taxable event to the tune of at least $3,000 due to capital gains and state income tax. They’re not particularly bad funds, and there may be an opportunity to unload them tax-free in the future, so we decided to leave them alone.
The Actual Portfolio Today
This is what the portfolio looks like now.
Not bad, eh?
That looks like a portfolio that can be managed by a Do-It-Yourselfer. The original portfolio before we tore it apart? That looks like something only a professional should mess with. I think that’s the point. It looks extraordinarily complicated, and it is, but it needn’t be. If it looked a whole lot easier, the professional wouldn’t be necessary.
Armed with a little knowledge and a willingness to stay the course through good times and bad, the individual can do this on his or her own. Of course, the typical investor can underperform the market due to behavioral factors (buying high, bailing low), so there is a role for recommended professionals for those investors who don’t have the knowledge or the fortitude.
The $22,000 in fees previously lost to the advisor and the fund companies represent at least a quarter of this retired couple’s annual spending. For every three or four dollars they spent as retirees, one dollar went to their advisor. And that’s considered normal and acceptable. I don’t like it.
Frankly, I’d be willing to bet the portfolio’s balances could be substantially larger if they hadn’t been nibbled at a little every year while they were growing. Remember, investment fees will cost you millions.
How can 1.4% in fees be so costly? Think of it this way. If you’re planning on the portfolio returning 3% to 5% with a conservative allocation to preserve capital, once you subtract the fees, you’re left with 1.6% to 3.6%. A sustainable withdrawal rate of 4% doesn’t look so safe after awhile.
With the new allocation, we didn’t quite get down to a three-fund portfolio, but nearly 97% of the portfolio is in one. We also weren’t able to get the expenses down to 0.058% or under $1,000, but we’re not that far off with a weighted ER of 0.081 and annual expenses of about $1,300.
I’d say we did pretty well.
For further reading on the three fund portfolio, check these out:
- He Has Read Over 250 Investing Books. He Recommends These Three Funds.
- From 28 Funds to 3: Simplifying to a Three Fund Portfolio
- A Vanguard Three Fund Portfolio Just Got Cheaper!
- Investing in a Three Fund Portfolio Across Numerous Accounts. Get the Spreadsheet!
- The Bogleheads Guide to the Three Fund Portfolio
- 150 Portfolios Better Than Yours
What do you think? Do you like the three fund portfolio? What did you think of the 48 fund portfolio? Why do advisors try to make things so complex? Comment below!
That is quite impressive. I need to get to work simplifying my portfolio. My funds are mostly at Vanguard with low expense ratios, but I could benefit from further simplification.
He saved even more than the 22,000 in fees because the management part of the fees are paid with after tax dollars
Simplicity and savings- a good combination
I’m so impressed. Thanks for the great post.
I recently moved my accounts from USAA to Vanguard. These include a Brokerage account, Traditional IRA (non-deductible), and a Roth IRA. My Simple IRA account is already at Vanguard. I want to simplify my accounts and lessen my fees. My accounts from USAA were complex (although not as bad as the one in your example) with 8-9 different mutual funds within each account. Now that I have moved the accounts to Vanguard I learned that there is a $50 fee to sell each mutual fund within the account. Should I just bite the bullet and sell the USAA mutual funds at $50 each to invest in the lower cost Vanguard funds? Is this just an expensive lesson to learn? Any other suggestions?
Thanks in advance for any advice that you have!
That’s a bummer. I bet it would have been cheaper to liquidate at USAA, transfer cash, and reinvest. You could ask Vanguard for a few free trades, but your negotiating position is much weaker now that you’ve already done the transfer!
Why two IRAs,…one his, one hers?
That”I” in IRA stands for individual. A married couple needs both his and hers (or his and his, or hers and hers) IRAs in order to contribute the full $11K in 2018 or the full $12K in 2019.
IRA stands for INDIVIDUAL Retirement Arrangement. So yes, two people would have two accounts.
This drives home the point of the elegance of index fund investing (and why every DIY investor should owe John Bogle a huge debt of gratitude).
Expense ratios are deceptively small. A basis point seems like nothing but over time it can add up to substantial savings because the money that you don’t pay in fees stays in play for investing and compounds with time. If you have a couple of decades of investing ahead, you can capture 5 to 6 figures more for your nest egg.
A 1% AUM fee for active management, which is in the typical range of fees for this service, essentially is $10k/yr per million. If your save withdrawal rate for 1 million using the 4% rule is 40k, that means 25% of your SWR goes to fees (and likely more as active managed portfolios tend to not use index funds (they need to justify their role and thus put you in more expensive/exotic offerings).
Another way to look at it is whatever fee you pay, multiply it by 25x and that is how much more of a nest egg you need above what you could have had without those fees.
Technically, it’s slightly less (because in the event of poor performance less money goes to the advisor) but the main gist of your point is correct, that you must have more money if you want to pay an advisor thousands each year.
A PoF Classic® and one of my favorites. Thanks for sharing this one.
I’m in the middle of doing a very similar move from USAA to vanguard. To me, 3*9*$50 = $1350 once to accomplish the move you describe seems worth it. Depending on what USAA funds you are in and balances and all, you’ll make that up pretty quickly, less than a year?
It depends entirely on the size of the portfolio initially. Ideally, you would want to liquidate at USAA for free and transfer the cash to Vanguard. If we’re talking about taxable investments, though, you wouldn’t want to do that. Of course, if the market goes gangbusters while you’re stuck in cash, it could cost you.
How long it would take to recoup those funds depends upon the size of your portfolio and market performance.
Hope the transition goes well!
-PoF
This is a great reminder that sometimes simpler can be better. Since a simple portfolio is easier, cheaper, and better you would think we all would already have that. Yet we don’t.
Bogle has been trying for decades to get us to do this. There has been some progress since the 1970s and 80s but not as much as he expected or hoped for. There is even a new Bogle-inspired (Larimore) book out about the Three Fund Portfolio. Apparently, we need to keep hearing this simple message.
Physicians, based on my experience, seem particularly resistant to this kind of simplicity. I must admit I am too.
We seem to be very comfortable with complexity. We are used to getting extra benefits by knowing more than others or thinking better than others. It pays off in medicine and in other fields.
We also start investing late and want higher-than-average returns. We also are a little too gullible when believing our “money helpers” who present, encourage, and navigate the complexity with us.
Keep it easy. Keep it simple. It works.
>Which advisor would you choose?
Ok, I’m not exactly one to defend advisors, especially ones with dirty FINRA sheets, but to make an analogy, the complaints/charges/violations/whatever-you-want-to-call-them are sometimes just allegations. If you see several of these on a broker’s FINRA sheet, it’s probably a bag sign. But a single complaint from a single customer might not paint a fair picture of the advisor’s record. To make an analogy, this is like being sued for malpractice, and having your name smeared in the NPDB even before losing the judgment.
Again, I don’t typically defend advisors and I highly recommend checking their FINRA sheet before hiring them (https://brokercheck.finra.org/) but take the information you find in context. And if you otherwise like the advisor, don’t be afraid to ask him/her about it, and hear their side of the story.
Disclaimer: I am a physician, not a financial advisor.
True — one smudge on the record may not be an indication of a bad apple. Most people won’t know or bother to check at all.
outdated fund symbols
The share classes offered by this fund were consolidated on 11/2/18 in an effort to simplify the investing experience for our shareholders.
What are the new symbols? Fidelity investor here who is working on simplifying
FSTVX got exchanged into FSKAX in my accounts.
Care to explain more the rationale for using FTIPX in the taxable account? I’ve been using IXUS (free trades) and VXUS ($5.95?) as my Tax loss harvesting pairs for international in taxable, based on the ability to close the trade intraday instead of after market close to make sure I get the expected loss booked, and this leaves the fidelity FZILX or FTIPX for tax-advantaged accounts. And supposedly more tax efficiency than a mutual fund for ixus/vxus?
I’ve stuck with mutual funds for the simplicity of the exchange and lack of any bid/ask spread. ETFs can work perfectly well, though, too. I wrote up an example of TLH with Fidelity using this account recently: https://www.physicianonfire.com/tax-loss-harvesting-fidelity/
Best,
-PoF
Thanks for the update.
This is an awesome summary
I wish you were my neighbor so you could take a look at my mess of a portfolio
I am at UBS and LPL (I know the monies at LPL have ERs of an embarrassing 1.4-2.25%) and at standard pacific (4 fund portfolio simple—newest one I set up w my newer work situation)
My husband is slowly coming around to the idea that no new money will be added to LPL as my desire to DIY is greater than his
You’ll get it figured out, but yes, it’s time to either get good advice at a fair price or do it yourself. The forum can help you and function as “having PoF as your neighbor.”
in real life too, I don’t like talking about money too much because they have something is where and when they want to try to try set you up see how much money they can bamboozle out of you until they run off into the sunset with your life savings.
One of my favorites of POF articles you have posted. Thanks! That may be because I use a three fund portfolio and have been tempted to add small value or reit lately. This helped me stay the course at least for now.
There’s nothing wrong with adding an asset class or doing a little tilting. In my own portfolio, I have both REITs and small value. Neither has done well recently, but I’m invested for the long haul.
Cheers!
-PoF
While the Feds are still in the rate-raising mood, I’d suggest adding short duration bond funds. Both the Vanguard Prime MMF and Ultra Short Bond Fund were up for the last year.
Predicting interest rate moves is about as hard as predicting stock market moves. I don’t get into the habit of timing the market based on what I see in my very cloudy crystal ball and I don’t suggest anyone else does either.
I was very excited to read this article as I was just in the middle of firing my adviser and starting to manage my own accounts. I have a couple dozen different mutual funds scattered across my 403b, 457, Roth IRAs, and taxable accounts. I want to reduce to just a handful as you describe above but am unclear about tax ramifications. Are there accounts where capital gains matter more or less? Are these taxes enough of a penalty to warrant keeping the funds that have earned this year and just start focusing future contributions to these funds?
Tax ramifications only exist in taxable accounts. Chances are you don’t have much in capital gains right now anyway given recent market action. This is probably a GREAT chance to realign your portfolio and maybe even harvest some losses at the same time.
Thank you for this great article. I had been pruning the number of accounts in my retirement account (through TIAA-CREF but mostly Vanguard funds) before I read this and now see that I can prune a lot more! I’m curious on your opinion of target funds- which seem to be mix of total stock (for vanguard the same fund you suggest), international fund(s) and bonds. Obviously you lose direct control of the ratio of these, though you can always bounce between target funds if the mix is not to your style.
I’ve made this 3 fund portfolio my goal as I take over accounts from my now fired financial advisor. Biggest hurdle has been my employer accounts which have terrible offerings and thus am moving most of that money to an SDA through TD Ameritrade (only option for SDA).
My question… All of my current holdings (for non-employer accounts) are through Vanguard, but need to manage my SDAs through TD Ameritrade. In reading WCI and POF, Vanguard is what I know best – but are there any significant differences in funds between brokerage firms? For example, a large amount of my stock holdings are in Vanguard’s total stock market fund. Is there a difference between this and the TD Ameritrade version? When I attempt to purchase the TD Ameritrade version there are no fees, but fee warnings pop up when I attempt to purchase Vanguard. I have trouble understanding what exactly these fees are when I read the pop ups – is it just the $6.95/trade or something larger than would deter me from just using Vanguard funds in my TD Ameritrade accounts?
You can buy the Vanguard Total Stock Market ETF at TDA (symbol VTI). Yes, it’ll cost a $5-7 commission each time you buy and sell.
SDA = self-directed account? You mean an IRA? You know you lose the ability to do Backdoor Roth IRAs if you have a balance in a traditional IRA, right? Or is the SDA a self directed account within the 401(k)? I have something similar in my 401(k) at Schwab.
Not an IRA, it’s a self-directed account within my 403b and 457.
Good to know that its just the trade commission fee. They list so many fees on there I can’t tell which would apply. I’m learning a lot since taking over my accounts! My motto right now is that its ok to be wrong on a few things while I’m learning… but to make this worthwhile I just can’t be wrong by more than 1%! (former fee costs with my advisor).
Thanks for all the help.
Then that shouldn’t be a problem with the Backdoor Roth IRA. I don’t know what other fees will apply in your 403(b) and 457 so read your document carefully.
If expenses are the same/similar, and it is a true Total Stock Market Index, then you might as well save yourself the commission and use the TD Ameritrade one. The performance of each should be effectively the same if they are both tracking the same index. Obviously, if ongoing expenses are significantly higher in TD Ameritrade it is going to be a better choice to use the Vanguard one.
i am trying to decide between fidelity 3 fund portfolio vs vanguard 3 fund portfolio
any advantages between the two
im extremely new to this and still in the process of reading all the aforementioned books
also is there any disadvantage in buying the vanguard funds in a fidelity account?
All fine options. Seriously, so little difference there that it isn’t worth discussing.
Like other comments, I wish you were my neighbor! 🙂 Got through a divorce and now doing research to fire FA and manage things on my own. Currently my accounts are at TDAmeritrade– do you think it makes sense to move to Vanguard or keep at TDA? Also, considering hiring fee only advisor to help make this transition…. worth it?
I like Vanguard, but a great portfolio can easily be built at TD Ameritrade.
If you have to ask if the advisor is worth it, the provider can probably provide enough value to you to be worth it. Most of us hard-core DIYers wouldn’t even ask that question. You can always fire them in a few months or a year if they’re not providing the value you hoped to receive.
Thank you for this great article! I recently fired my FA after many years of avoiding my investment accounts. Your blog posts have been extremely useful in helping me change my attitude from one of fear/stress/avoidance.
I have a taxable account with several actively managed (high expense ratio) funds with significant gains, many that have been invested for more than a decade. Some were started by my parents/grandparents on my behalf when I was a child and had missing cost basis information.
I have made progress on selling some of these (and have TLH what I could) but still have more to do. I wonder if I should, in general, wait for TLH opportunities before taking on significant gains? Or do I go ahead and sell everything at once, and accept the tax consequences to avoid accumulating more fee expenses (and to reallocate assets into the target strategy)?
Do you recommend hiring a tax planner/advisor in such a case? If so, how do you recommend finding one?
Did you inherit them from your grandparents or were they gifted to you? It matters for the basis.
But yes, sometimes it makes sense not to sell assets with very low basis and to build your portfolio around them. More info here:
https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/legacy-holdings-in-taxable/
If you need someone to help, here are the folks we recommend:
https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/financial-advisors/