[Editor's Note: The following guest post was submitted by Benjamin Rushing who blogs (? used to blog, we haven't actually been able to get a hold of him since this article was approved for publication and there haven't been any new posts published for months on his site) at ApprenticeMD.com about finances for medical students. My experience with education is that the vast majority of kids fall into one of two camps- one camp is going to do well even in a crummy public high school, community college, or state university. The other camp is going to do poorly even in fancy pants private K-12s and the best college their parents can buy their way into. There is really only a small percentage of students where throwing a lot of money at their education is going to make a big difference in outcome. The problem is none of us know if one of our kids is going to be in that little sliver of the population. Even in retrospect, it is hard to know. Further confusing the issue, many families, whether consciously or unconsciously, choose to spend a great deal of money on education in order to transmit values or display status rather than actually improve academic outcomes. In this post, Benjamin Rushing discusses his own personal educational experiences and speculates about the benefits of his parents' approach. My only caution is to avoid spending money you don't have on education that might not make a dramatic difference anyway. Value matters here, just like everywhere else. In the end, of course, the responsibility for education will fall on the student and there is little parents can really do about it. ApprenticeMD and I have no financial relationship.]
In today’s world, financially responsible parents constantly worry about paying for their kids’ educations. Many parents will continue to throw money at 529 plans even after the needle passes into the six-figure range, while simultaneously funding an expensive, private high school education. If you are one of these parents, you may be wondering just how much it will cost to educate your children and what educational philosophy is the best investment. Unfortunately, there is no one answer, and even worse, there isn’t even a best answer. I admire all the parents out there that take such a proactive approach to their children’s education, and I hope to do the same one day. However, I can’t help but wonder if parents are taking too much responsibility for their kids’ schooling? Please allow me to share my story and what worked for my family.
My Story
I grew up in a poor, rural school system in Mississippi, and yes, I went to public school. Believe it or not, my entire county had one stoplight, and it didn’t even run 24/7. Most would say that I was educationally disadvantaged, and perhaps this was true. My high school did not produce Rhode Scholars or Nobel Prize Laureates. However, despite my humble background, I received merit-based scholarships to both undergraduate and medical school. No, I am not a genius, and I am not lucky.
My Parent's Educational Philosophy
College and educational success were highly valued in my home, so you may be surprised to learn that my parents didn’t dedicate a considerable portion of their income towards my education. My parents never opened a 529 account and never wrote a check to a private school. Even more interestingly, my family had plenty of money to max out a 529 and send me to the most expensive private school in the area. So why on earth did they not save money for my college expenses? Why didn’t they thrust me ahead of my peers with a fancy high school education? What were they thinking? My family developed a unique approach to education in that my parents saw themselves as the facilitators and me as the executor. They never wanted me to feel like I was invincible to the consequences of bad decisions, but they also wanted me to know that they supported me. I guess they wanted me to feel a healthy degree of responsibility concerning my education and knew that this would one day become an indispensable tool for my success.
Our Unspoken Deal
In many ways, I had an unspoken deal with my parents. They would completely support me in my academic pursuits, and in return, I was expected to perform well academically and take some degree of financial responsibility via scholarships. So what were the mechanics of this exciting arrangement? If I felt like I needed standardized test prep, my parents bought it. When I asked to go on expensive school trips, I went. If I wanted to spend the summer at an academic camp, my parents were glad to help. All throughout high school, my parents supported me in my academic pursuits. They continually looked for ways that they could advance my education and didn’t mind giving me their financial support. High school went well for me, and I received a full scholarship to my state school. But wait, the deal didn’t stop there. When I got to college, I began to pursue medical school and decided to be such a good candidate that I would get a scholarship to attend. Scholarships to medical school may sound crazy, but it happens! Better yet, my parents got on board with it. When the time came for the MCAT, my parents gladly purchased a multi-thousand dollar study package. Ironically, one of my friends whose parents had funded a 529 plan, remarked that his parents would never throw that kind of money at his education.
Full-Tuition Medical School Scholarship
Long story short, that study course helped me become a very competitive applicant, and I was offered a full tuition scholarship to medical school. I am currently a medical student who is not worried about paying tuition and enjoying every second of it. Additionally, my parents feel that they made a contribution that will help me avoid the consequences of long-term debt.
Having told my story, I would like to state that my parents didn’t owe me anything with regards to my education. They chose to help me because they love me, and I sincerely appreciate it. Every penny they invested in my education benefitted me and slowed their financial growth. I often refer to their contributions as investments, but they were actually gifts. Maybe my situation is unique, but I can’t help but notice that the financial expectations placed on children planning to attend college continue to decrease, especially in financially successful circles. If you are a parent, don’t bear the financial burden of your kids’ education alone. It’s fair to expect some form of contribution from your children. Moreover, taking responsibility for my education taught me A LOT. I learned how to handle pressure, the value of hard work, and countless other life lessons that are hard to learn any other way except through experience.
Additionally, your kids’ hard work may have significant financial consequences for you, the parent. Any form of education is expensive, and costs only seem to be rising. Scholarships free up money so that you can reach financial independence much more quickly. However, don’t be cheap with the small stuff. Some of my friends’ parents paid for senior trips, but would not help them buy books the next fall. Realize that your kids will perform best when they know you support them. Finally, take an active approach to your kids’ schooling. I know it’s hard to hear about geometry after a full day of work, but it’s essential. Make your kids know that you care about what happens at school and how they are doing.
Benjamin Rushing, ApprenticeMD.com
At the end of the day, no form of education can guarantee success for your children. Parents like to think that paying private school tuition or moving into the swanky area with the great public schools is enough to lock in a solid, meaningful education. However, the success, expectations, and passions of your children stem much more from what you teach them and how you guide them. I know a lot of successful people from many different backgrounds. Interestingly, they all have one thing in common. Every one of them had a positive role model in their life that molded their character and taught them the importance behind academic success. Providing your children with support and encouragement really is the best educational gift you can give your children.
I am aware that different methods work for different people. My parents’ expectations worked beautifully for me and seem to be working in a similar manner for my sister. Regardless, this exact methodology may not work for your family, but maybe a few of the principles will. At any rate, I hope you enjoyed my story and can use some of what my family has learned.
Do you think parents take on too much responsibility for funding their children's education? What financial help do you think is fair to offer? How have you approached this issue with your kids? Comment below!
In our case child one obtained a chemical engineering BS then seven years later went back for an MD, 98 percentile MCAT, straight A’s in medical school, Alpha Omega Alpha and radiation oncology specialty. Child two received a biological engineering BS and a civil engineering MS. Child three earned a business BS, Summa Cum Laude. An MS in adult education and is working on her PhD. Total cost to us was zero $ for all three kids. All the 4 year degrees were free rides on multiple merit based scholarships and all the advanced degrees were on their own resources. Nobody studied abroad or took any special prep study courses. All had public school for K-12, and the local state U for college. Nobody moved back home after college, they all got jobs. Only the doctor had any student loans. Wife and I were public schooled and state U for four year degrees, no grad school. Seemed to us anything more was wasting money for us or for our kids. Can’t tell anyone has underperformed for lack of a more expensive education. All three kids were great students and only made a handful of B’s except for child three who never made a grade lower than an A in her life. All tutored private school grads in college for extra income. Maybe the higher priced education pays off for less academically talented or less focused kids but mine did not appear to suffer from missing it.
Same here. I am in the minority that believe it’s actually a good thing to work your way to the top. Did not pay for any of my kids schooling. In high school they did not get to tour Europe with the other public school elite. They had jobs for minimum wage at age 15.
They worked multiple jobs throughout college and yes, they had stress about making ends meet. In the end, they learned to appreciate the value of a dollar. They know how hard life is. They learned quickly to not waste thousands on non essential credits like scuba diving. They all went to public universities and community colleges. They all learned that a linked bachelors and masters curriculum saved them thousands. And guess what?
They all make hundreds of thousands a year.
What is this? Kids that didn’t go to Ivy League can be successful? Kids that didn’t do dozens of summer workshops can make money? Kids that dropped out of honor societies because of the poor ROI can get ahead? My son, who had to pay for his own school was making 200k at 24 years old? But…he had to work three jobs through college? How is this possible?
Nice article, but the author still doesn’t know the value of a dollar. Getting a scholarship is not financial responsibility. Having your tuition paid for is a luxury for the well off. We need more physicians that can empathize with the workers that can barely afford groceries. Having your tuition paid for does not put you in a fincancial crisis. The only crisis is how to get extra money to go to the bar.
While having physician income could have had me take the responsibility for my children’s education, I wanted to ensure they could get a firm grasp on reality, learn how to live frugal, and give them the confidence that comes from earning your way on your own. Rich kids just never understand.
Applying for scholarships may be the best summer job a kid could get.
Or the worst. Work the numbers.
Applying/aiming for scholarships can be a great summer job.
In undergrad, I looked up my state school and figured out the MCAT score needed to get a full-tuition scholarship (apparently they still exist). There was no other way for me to afford med school. With that score as my goal, I studied 12 hrs / worked 6 hrs on weekdays and studied 18-20 hrs/day on weekends for my “MCAT summer” – a very horrible summer for a 20 yr/o!! But it got me a 160K med school scholarship. I did not earn that much per hr until I became a senior partner in my practice. And I understood the value of every dollar of that scholarship.
You studied 20 hours a day? I can’t imagine those last 4 or 5 were super effective.
I had really, really crappy blue collar labor jobs during my summers in undergrad and high school, but scholarships based on merit and maintaining a semester by semester 3.5 GPA that paid for basically all my higher education, including med school. My “job” during the academic months was maintaining a 3.5 GPA, and that is exactly how I spoke of it. Had to strategize with my college guidance counselor to make sure my class load was balanced so that even if I got a bad grade in, say, Organic Chemistry, I wasn’t at risk of falling below 3.5 any given semester. Had to strategically drop classes at the last minute if I was at risk of getting a B.
To blanket state that getting scholarships doesn’t teach the “value of a dollar” is a not a generalizable argument. All it means is that that is your opinion. I hope my example can expand your idea of what is possible.
Timely article for our family. We are currently paying for pre-school and debating where our son will go for K to the rest. Private schools here are expensive while the public schools are so so. My wife and I go back and forth but I suspect.our son will end up in a public school.
In our family it’s all about paying it forward. My parents helped me, my grandparents helped them, so we will help our kids.
We, too, are on the “legacy” program. We started saving for our children’s college as soon as they were born. My parents put 5 kids through college on savings bonds. If they could do it, we had no excuse. One child is a senior and the other a junior this year. We have cash flowed very little. The UTMA, ESA and 529 worked perfectly.
First of thank you for sharing your wonderful story. You are correct that there are many ways to allow kids to have a great education and be successful and that it can happen with or without financial aid from parents.
Your story is inspiring and would be a dream scenario for most parents. It really falls on the student if he or she is willing to put in the time and effort to accomplish what you have done.
I will tell you my personal story is a lot different. I was considered extremely intelligent for my grade when I was enrolled in a public school in Louisiana. Even though I was in the gifted/magnet program it was really easy for me. Because of how easy it was I developed incredibly bad study habits (I actually did not study at all) and spent more time going boating when I came home or goofing off/playing video games.
When my father passed away and we moved to California I was put in a high powered private school and for the first time I was no longer the smartest (I was valedictorian in 8th grade public school, probably dropped to the 20’s-30s range in a class of 120 in private school). It brought out some competition aspect of my life and although I still wasn’t studying as much as I should, I definitely did more than I did in public school. Even college I would study only the night before thanks to bad study habits formed early on. It was only when I got into medical school that I would be forced to study more than 1 day before an exam just because of the sheer amount of material.
I probably would have done alright if I had stayed in public school throughout, but I think I benefited by being in a private school starting in grade 10. Everyone’s story is different and as you mentioned, it is very hard to predict which students will succeed in which environment. I personally have put my daughter in a highly regarded private school (because I live in a semi-rural area and the public schools here are similar to how I felt about my schooling in Louisiana)
I suffered the same- why work hard to get 100% if 94% is possible while earning money at jobs and enjoying a social life. But Ivy league college got me at least ready to pass if not excel in med school. For this reason I wanted my kids at a school where they aren’t the smartest. We would not have and apparently didn’t accomplish this at our local private school nor even at the state math and science boarding school but kid 1 got it, she assured me, at the State U honors college. Not so much in her major though…
Hoping kid 2 will get it, again in an honors college at a State U out of state.
Very interesting! Hope the author will swing by to comment on our comments here.
Our/ My motivations have been 2-3 fold. 1- offer my kids the same chance at an Ivy league level education like I got/ could afford because my parents qualified us for significant financial aid (don’t be too rich for her to get any aid AND refuse to pay for it should she want/ get admitted to such a place). 2- DON’T turn our lives inside out to provide education (or anything) for them- this covers not working extra shifts to pay for it as well as not spending multiple hours each day driving them places (neither a distant private school nor daily after school activities nor daily nagging to practice or study). 3- Last and admittedly least social justice- don’t skip the local public school as too awful to send kids to and do nothing to improve it.
Of course that policy was easy given the genetic inheritance we gave them- had any floundered at our fairly crappy public school or had special needs that might have been neglectful. I wonder if Ben attended a MS public school with few other white kids and poor funding or some high income area public school with an excellent tax base and as much money spent on art and music as, at least, baseball if not as much as on football. And we weaseled out of the full AL (bad) public school education by having them each at the public magnet state wide math and science boarding school for 1-3 years and being at a rural almost all white school with minimal safety issues (bigger threat of school shooting almost than of getting jumped in the parking lot).
On the line of social justice we of course paid for multiple testing college boards- partly since the magnet school wanted 9th grade scores; putting our kids ahead of those taking it once for free. But based on our kids’ study habits and wishes knew a cram course would not gain much. (They both failed to use the free program a group of NFL players donated to all military kids, and I’m no tiger mom. They even got through piano on their innate abilities more than on practice though one teacher almost fired her, maybe his nagging did what mine would not have.) Also felt I don’t want them placing into a college based on inflated scores (though of course over half their classmates at such a school would have done cram courses).
Had the kid wanted or requested extra tutoring or training in a course or sport- and demonstrated the enthusiasm to warrant our effort- that would have been different (though we would have done- and did- the tutoring and coaching ourselves if possible as Dad did with Robotics and soccer when that was their thing). Sadly for me they’re happy to enjoy my baking and gardening and financial skills without learning them, and out of the nest request long distance training on those issues as needed.
I think WCI said it best. A good student is going to excel in whatever situation they are given.
I feel as physicians we are all smart and highly educated and we want our children to be the same. Sometimes they are not and we try to make them the same by giving them every opportunity and throwing money at private school, multiple activities, expensive college, etc. In some cases this might make a difference but I would guess that most of the time there is little difference other then much poorer parents.
I tend to agree that a bright kid with two educated, caring parents will do pretty well in any school. Most likely, the parents of such a child will choose to send their kid to public school only if the public schools are adequate. My son goes to the best public school in our state, and there is literally competition among parents to fill the volunteer as quick as possible before they are full. Working parents and stay at home parents alike are all very involved in the success of the school, and it shows through objective measures like standardized test scores in lower school and college matriculation in the high school. I grew up in a large public school system that basically felt like it was broken into 2 schools – the regular kids who weren’t particularly motivated and I’m not sure where they’re all at now, and the honors/ap track kids, many of whom went on to become merit scholars or attend ivy league colleges are now doctors, lawyers, investment bankers, a professional athlete, a B list-actor, musicians, etc. I’m content to keep my kids in high quality public schools as I don’t think it will limit them at all.
Where I think the argument may break down is how well bright kids from broken homes or even good homes but poor communities are served in their local public schools. Those are the kids who I think benefit the most from a private education, or magnet schools outside of their communities. I love all the organizations that support these kids. I’ve seen a private grant program in our community fund high quality preschool for financially disadvantaged families and the result is that the majority of kids entering kindergarten can already read and write and do basic math, regardless of how easy or hard things are for them at home. It is very cool.
Our kids will be in public school throughout. My wife and I both were as well. Though we have friends who put their kids in private school, we have a bit of a moral dilemma with my wife being a teacher. We don’t want to be in the situation where we aren’t “buying what we are selling.”
P.s. filled out the WCI Con survey. Looking forward to that conference!
TPP
This post does not apply to the many parents with kids with special needs, kids who need /utilize special education. And frankly it angers me.
Yes, it’s clear the guest poster is not a child with special needs whose needs, by definition, can’t be met by traditional teaching methods.
Is this the website moderator?
No offense, but your comments sound snarky. If this is the moderator, it doesn’t seem like you should be posting. I had hopes for this site, but now realize it’ll be no kevinmd.
You’re right, it’s not. I took a look at KevinMD and there were fewer comments on the last 15 posts over 4 days than there were already this morning on this post in a few hours. This is a site where the audience values the back and forth of ideas and perspectives. Yours and , by definition, others.
Yes. I agree. But a host should not add any comments that make people feel out of place or serve an agenda. If they choose to do so, the site becomes a personal pulpit and a fanboy site for those who are followers of the creator. In this instance, the site should have the name of the creator in the title. Such as “John Doe is the white coat investor”.
I guess maybe I assumed this was a forum for users to discuss opinion pieces. In this case, I am wrong. If it is a site for users to to discuss opinions, then the moderator should stay neutral. The moderator did not do this when they replied to this users concern about mentioning kids with needs. The moderator chose to use a condescending tone.
I apologize for a condescending tone. Tone is one of the most difficult things to get right on the internet.
The site has no moderator, just me, the owner.
Sorry for the snark. It honestly wasn’t intended. I thought I was agreeing with
youthe other commenter that what the guest poster wrote didn’t and couldn’t apply to special needs kids. Apparently I didn’t phrase that well.Just reading KevinMD isn’t going to allow you to avoid me though as my work is frequently published there!
I’m not trying to avoid you. Kevinmd is exactly where you SHOULD post your opinion, as it’s valued, especially as a host of another site.
Just like dinner parties, the host should always play the part of neutral moderator, helping steer conversations in a productive manner. The guests may be opinionated, but the host ensures nobody is ostracized and all are made to feel welcome.
If I didn’t enjoy your hard work, I wouldn’t subscribe. 🙂 Thank you for creating this space.
The White Coat Investor isn’t the moderator. He’s the owner of this whole site. When we post here, he is allowing us the privilege of standing on his front lawn and chat with each other.
Just something to keep in mind.
I don’t agree, But I’ve been wrong before.
Since the blog/article section of the site isn’t really encompassed in the Mission of WCI (it does not fulfill any objective in the mission), I guess the purpose of the blog is confusing. In my experience, websites with comments are either fab sites (Facebook groups/friends, tumbler, specific group sites) or forums (Reddit, blogs, news sites with comments).
If this is a fan site, then you are correct. This site is narrow and specific to promote Jim and give him credit for being a leader. It would be like a Lady Gaga fansite. If Lady Gaga replies to a comment and made a fan feel stupid or outcast, then I guess that would be her right. Why she would want to expel people from her fan base is beyond me though.
If this is a forum, then you are incorrect. Jim’s opinion would taint the natural conversation and exclude anyone who isn’t a Jim worshipper. What good would conversation be, or the site even, if all comments had to follow Jim’s agenda. Jim could just ostracize those who don’t worship him and it reverts to the first scenario of being a Jim fansite. What self confident person would subscribe to and follow a site in which the creator has made them feel unwelcome?
The blog certainly helps fulfill all three missions of The White Coat Investor. In fact, in the beginning The White Coat Investor was just a blog.
It’s not clear to me what you are looking for or hoping I do at this point. Is there a comment I made that you’d like to see deleted or something?
Most of us value Jim’s (The white coat investor) opinions on a post and some of his posts are even pro-con with him writing one of the sides. His neutrality is accepting and permitting publication of opinions different from his or that of the blog, and only deleting what he defines a Spam, rather than venturing no opinion at all. Most of us like and want it that way.
Other blog posts have been about education from the perspective of parents about their children rather than, in this case, a doctor about his own education and have discussed more extensively the plans of parents whose children are not Medical School bound or are having difficulties in a standard program.
What exactly angers you? This is a perspective from one individual.
On a personal level, your anger is quite irrelevant. Everyone is free to post or comment I suppose but “I am angry,” “This offends me,” “I have a problem with this,” and other comments like these are a waste of everybody’s time.
Your close family may care … nobody else does.
It’s seems that Aviva is angered by the unfairness of life. That some kids are born with disabilities or special needs. Perhaps she was affected by this. Perhaps she feels injustice in this and feels resentment that the author did not have to worry for taking care of such a child.
Interesting read.
I had a similar background but with even less financial help from my parents. None actually. I felt love and I’m sure they would have shared any money they had, but they had none.
Through working during college, walking and biking to campus, living with my grandmother to go to community college etc. I eventually acquired an excellent education through public schools. I’m grateful for work-study programs, PELL grants, and state and federal “need-based” scholarships. It would have been impossible for me without financial help. I’m paying it forward now with contributions to DonorsChoose.org
I gave a talk to physicians recently about personal finance. I was amazed at the variety of opinions. One expressed no interest in helping financially at all with their child’s education. Others felt all of their kids needed fully-paid private education from K through post-doc! One of the latter said $500K should be the minimum that any physician sets aside. He also said he will never be able to retire.
We all have to make our own decisions.
For us, public schools will be fine. I will do what I can to help them avoid student loans. I will try to influence courses and majors as much as I can. That’s about it.
Personally, this post doesn’t do it for me. He makes it seem simple. Do well, get a scholarship to college and med school and you will be debt free. Easy Peasy! Unfortunately, not everyone can get scholarships despite how hard they work.
I was a good student. I tried really hard, studied as much as I can. I applied for scholarships and didn’t get any. What my parents did do was support me financially through my education so that I could focus 100% on my school work and not have to have a part time job taking up time I could use to study. As someone who got wait-listed for med school based on my borderline grades, if I had to juggle a part time job I may not have gotten in.
While I don’t plan on paying for all of college, I am saving up to be able to pay their living expenses so they can focus on school. I plan on giving them every chance to succeed, like my parents did for me. I will encourage them to make smart financial decisions like my parents did for me. I will save what I can for college while still maintaining retirement goals because that is a gift for them, not an obligation.
This
I sort of wrote about this topic recently. About why my wife and I are not starting a 529 account for our child.
Just like everything else in personal finance… the decision to fund our children’s education (and how we do it) is highly personal. It depends on everyone’s own unique situation.
In our case, we’re not starting a 529 because there are no tax incentives for us other than the tax free growth and withdraws on qualified educational expenses. To us, it’s limiting.
Between my wife and I… we each had different pathways. I grew up privileged enough to attend a highly ranked public school in California. My parents were both professionals and did not fund a 529. But they gave me a lot of help and support throughout my schooling. I earned a full tuition at a state university and my parents paid for housing, room and board.
My wife grew up relatively poor and with little money. Her parents are immigrants who spoke very little English. Because they worked a ton and due to the language barrier, they were not available to help her financially or academically. My wife had several jobs in high school to help pay for things she needed. She earned a full scholarship to a state university too. Plus she earned more by entering and winning various essay contests. In a way, she was like a paid free lance writer without even knowing it!
As we are now able to, we’re putting more into 529s than we originally planned. We have little concern about overfunding it as if the kids don’t use it, the grand kids will.
It’ll be far more than enough for undergrad at anywhere in our state, but not enough for dental or medical school.
First time commenter but this post rang true.
Currently a graduating MS4, product of public school high school growing up. My parents were pretty transparent with the amount of funding in my 529 and I factored it into my college decision (it was not nearly 100K). Ended up at a state school in a beautiful setting which also had 6K tuition per year, graduated in 3.5 years to save some extra money. Budgeted throughout college, lived on $550 per month out of the 529 and worked to make up the difference.
Graduated with 5K left in the account and approached med school decision making the same way. Graduating in may with ~95K in loans after attending med school with a scholarship.
My situation is definitely not about overcoming any huge challenge or adversity, but I was at least forced to understand the value of my decisions and my education. Many classmates who have had their way entirely paid on blank checks are often surprised that you can get to the exact same place while taking into account the cost and value of where you are going. I think the majority of students at prestigious private schools who are paying 60K in tuition yearly with monopoly money could easily get an identical education for far less and would probably choose to do so if they were forced to actually think about it.
Congratulations to Benjamin! It sounds like he’s setting himself up for a wonderful career as a physician and a great financial future as well.
As a father and newly practicing physician, I feel the burden of my own loans and am saving in 529 plans to prevent this fate for my own sons. I hope to create a situation where tuition is never an impediment to the higher education of their choice.
There is no doubt in my mind that the widening wealth gap in our country has a lot to do with access to higher education and the cost of this education. And it doesn’t help my parental anxiety that a recent NY Times articles supports the belief that strong parental involvement in children’s educational paths does in fact make a difference in eventual outcomes. (Google: New research shows that hyper-involved parenting is the route to kids’ success in today’s unequal world.)
So for now, I’m going to keep on funding the 529 plans and won’t hesitate to consider private school if it seems worth it. Alas, only hindsight 20 years down the road will give any hint if this was the correct choice.
Great post Benjamin! It’s good to hear such great things coming from a fellow Mississippian and MSU alumni. Go Bulldogs!
Having been a professor for a decade now, I completely agree that the best students will perform well no matter where they go, and some will struggle no matter where they go. Being emotionally supportive and encouraging is probably a bigger help to your kids than just throwing money for college tuition at them.
I live in a European country where universities are free and parents are required by law to support their children by paying their living expenses until their education is complete or until age 26, whichever comes first. There is state financial aid available if the parents are unable to provide support.
Many of my friends restrict the choice of university their child attends to our local uni, or one in a LCOL city. We have allowed our kids to study in HCOL cities, where living expenses are about $1k a month. I (American) feel our kids should get jobs to help pay expenses; my husband (European) doesn’t. Interesting to see how people feel differently about this. In our house it’s an issue, too. I want the kids to have ‘skin in the game’, otoh, I don’t want them to feel as pressured and unsupported as I did, paying for college and grad school on my own with scholarships and multiple jobs.
Evaluating educational outcomes solely on the basis of income misses large components of life and career success.
Consider three college classmates. All go into law after graduation. Thirty years later one is a big law partner. One is a law professor and among the most highly cited legal scholars in the country. The third is on the Supreme Court. Who is more successful? My answer is that they are successful in ways that do not permitted an ordering at all. Their incomes would be wholly inappropriate if adopted as the only measure of success.
Muscicians- one has a lucrative career in pop music and one is an international touring soloist in classical music.
Scientists- one enters industry and runs a large division at a big pharma company. Another is a professor and member of the National Academy.
One could do this in many fields. Money is important but many intelligent successful people intentionally choose career paths that they know will not maximize income.
Their educations are intended to set them up for their careers and beyond their careers, provide them something that will be valuable for their lives. The kind of educations they get may contribute to their options, choices and overall success, beyond the money they make.
To measure the return on education one would need a summary measure of life success, which does not exist.
I think it’s fine to look at it that way when the education is paid for. When it involves borrowing hundreds of thousands at 7%, there has to be a financial return on investment as well.
Well, borrowing large amounts of money at high rates requires getting something worthwhile in return. That worthwhile thing does not have to be money.
Even doctors often borrow to buy houses. They do not necessarily benefit financially from those purchases, but they believe the house is worth it overall.
I hope few doctors borrow to buy cars. But many purchase or lease expensive cars. I don’t get it, but they apparently think the incremental value of a Mercedes S class over a Prius is worth a lot of money. I assume they know they are not going to turn a profit on the fancy car.
People are being too optimistic about the opportunities available to students at public schools. It depends on the school. There are some public systems and some schools within public systems that are outstanding.
Unfortunately, there are many that are terrible. There was an interesting series on the public high schools in Boston. They found that those who went to the exam schools got good educations and moved on in professional careers.
https://apps.bostonglobe.com/magazine/graphics/2019/01/17/valedictorians/exam-school-divide/?p1=ValLandingBox
They found that the VALEDICTORIANS from the non exam schools struggled mightily in large part because they were not well enough educated to compete in top colleges. They followed the kids who were valedictorians at the non-exam Boston public schools from 2005-2007. Of those who wanted to be doctors (about 25 percent of the group) NONE had graduated med school. ONE was in med school at the time they followed up 12 years later.
https://apps.bostonglobe.com/magazine/graphics/2019/01/17/valedictorians/missing-in-medicine/?p1=ValFooter
“Among the 93 Boston valedictorians interviewed by the Globe, not one has gone on to earn a PhD or an MD. And of the roughly 25 Bostonians who have earned advanced degrees, just seven were in STEM-related fields.”
The series is full of stats like that.
If you are a doc and decide to have children, in my opinion, you have an obligation to your kids to make sure they can get a good education. You cannot simply assume this will happen at the local public school. Maybe so. Maybe not. Providing a good education for your kids becomes your responsibility when you decide to have a family.
I don’t believe you should borrow money to buy consumption items. Obviously it’s a free country and you can do what you want. Borrowing $100K to get a top ten MBA seems reasonable to me. Borrowing $100K to get a masters in fine arts from a small private college no one has ever heard of seems stupid to me.
But most of us on this site have money to burn and can still be financially successful. I just think you ought to burn money you already have rather than money future you is going to have to go to work to get.
While I don’t doubt there are terrible public schools, I see way too many parents sending kids to private schools because “the public schools are terrible” when there is no indication whatsoever the public schools are terrible. I think it’s a status symbol far more often than people will admit. In my area people say “The public school is terrible.” 67% of the kids there are in AP classes. Give me a break. That’s not a terrible public school.
Not all public schools offer AP courses.
Those that do may have quite limited choices. At many selective colleges AP courses are simply considered high school courses, no substitute for a college course on the subject, but decent background for college work.
The (private) exam school with which I am most familiar offers many courses beyond the AP level. “You did BC calculus last year? Great, you can do multivariate and linear algebra.” “You did multivariate and linear algebra last year? Great, how about discrete math? Or abstract algebra? Our students who have covered those topics go to a local college to take more advanced courses.” Or we can put together a seminar for you. What are you interested in?” Those kids are in a different world educationally.
At my college there were students who effectively started graduate school in their first year. They came in knowing what one would have hoped they would learn about their major by the time they completed their undergraduate courses. So they took graduate seminars, worked with professors on research published papers in their major and continued the head start they had. They came from high schools that could provide them that kind of education.
Many people would consider borrowing to buy an expensive house as consumption. It is certainly not an investment.
To the extent that people really buy things as status symbols, I agree that is a waste.
I remember one colleague who was bragging about his new car. At the time I did not realize that was the point of his comments, so I did not understand his disappointment when he asked how many cylinders my car had and I replied “I don’t know. At least one, I assume.”
Some people spend a lot of money on things because they are valuable to them, not because they hope others will be impressed. I have given up judging since I find few of these expensive purchases get something I would want. If everyone were like me, there would be no movie theaters, no professional sports teams, no luxury hotels, no first class seats on airplanes, international travel would be for business only, $200 would by an expensive engagement ring or a very expensive suit, dinner for two would cost $60 at the fanciest restaurant in town and it would be hard to find anyone willing to buy a new car.
I find it tedious to talk to some people in my income range because so many of them, in my estimation, throw their money away on useless junk. That spending would not make me happy. Fortunately, I do not have to engage in it. For the people who do by this stuff, evidently they want it, even if I cannot figure out why.
For me, sending kids to what I consider the best school for them is one of the few worthwhile big expenses in life. I am never going to take a vacation to Europe, Asia or Hawaii. I am never going to own or lease a luxury car or a boat. I am never going to own a vacation home. I am never going to eat at a fancy restaurant if I am paying. If someone else is paying I avoid such places to the extent I can. My clothes come from thrift shops and ebay. But if I thought a private high school or the Ivy League were the best places for my kids I would cheerfully pay the bills.
No mention of the military?
We were barely in a position to help with in-state public school costs.
Both our kids used the U.S. military to pay for their private ($$$) undergraduate educations via ROTC scholarships..
I also had a relative with a failing business, a spouse & several kids to support who was able (in their mid-30s) to attend medical school that way…IIRC, they finished their 20, retired as a O-5 & now are in civilian practice with a lucrative specialty thanks to Uncle Sam.