[FIRE week continues here at WCI, where we celebrate all things Financial Independence, Retire Early-related, including the Physician on FIRE blog. Every post this week is going to be about topics relevant to the FIRE community.]
By Dr. James M. Dahle, WCI Founder
There are many financial bloggers and readers out there in the FIRE (Financial Independence Retire Early) community including our own Physician On Fire, who writes a blog about FIRE directed at doctors. A WCI forum post from a few years back got me thinking about this subject. The forum poster asked, “Why don't more MDs retire in their early 40s?” I answered that there were three main reasons:
- Most doctors aren't financially savvy enough (both knowledge and discipline) to have enough money relative to their expenses to retire that early.
- Most doctors like their job, their career, and their profession and didn't spend more than a decade learning how to do it just to quit as soon as they could. They truly weren't in it just for the money.
- Many people who are savvy enough to retire early simply would rather not make the financial sacrifices required to be financially independent that early in life.
Obviously, the main benefit of financial independence is having the choice to retire early. However, there are a number of other benefits to early financial independence, and that's what I'd like to discuss in this post. Before doing that, however, I'd like to take a minute to discuss why I'm still working.
Why I'm Not Retired
Financial independence got really squishy for our family when I originally wrote this post in 2017. It used to be a very hard and fast number. We even wrote it into our financial plan and indexed it to inflation. Back in 2006, it was $2 million (which is now closer to $3 million). Using the handy-dandy 4% rule (or suggestion, depending on how you feel about it) with a nest egg of $3 million, we felt we could spend about $120,000 a year, or about $10,000 a month. Our net worth now significantly exceeds that number. According to our original written financial plan, I suppose we're now the big winners—and more than a decade earlier than planned (we officially became FI in 2018 or 2019). Yay us! So why was FI so squishy at first?
There were two reasons.
First, a large part of our net worth is now tied up in the value of The White Coat Investor. Illiquid is an understatement. However the return on this “investment,” even subtracting out a reasonable figure for our time, is better than the expected return of any other investment we have. Why sell something with a 15%-40% yield (depending on how you value it) and significant potential capital gains just to invest in something with an expected return of 7%-8%?
Second, it's squishy because we started spending more money. We spend $15,000-$20,000 a month. That doesn't include taxes and charitable contributions either. [We paid off the mortgage in 2017.]
Is this some sort of weird financial disaster? No. It was a conscious decision to loosen the purse strings. Could we have spent less than $180,000 a year [or $150,000 a year in our post-mortgage life]? Sure. We'd done it for many, many years. But when considered from a budgetary perspective, does spending such a small fraction of a rising income seem so bonkers? Not really. Barring an impending retirement, that seems pretty darn sustainable. And if it's not, at least we can console ourselves that we made hay while the sun was shining by saving something like 2/3 of our net income.
Work Matters
Why am I still working now, three years after we reached FI? Because I'm a workaholic. There I said it. Are you happy? Just kidding. But I do see work as an important part of my life.
In between my first and second year of medical school, I had a one-month mandatory class with the Air Force. On either side of that month, I had a month completely off. My wife was working and going to school, and we had no kids. We didn't have much money, but I had all the free time I could desire. I got a season pass to the university golf course (it was $32 for the whole summer, as I recall) and played most days. Then, I'd go home and play video games. Some days I'd go climbing or mountain biking. Guess what? By the time I'd done that for three of four weeks, it felt like work. It sucked all the joy out of my recreational activities. Weird, huh? I felt very purposeless and like I wasn't making a significant contribution to society. I didn't like that feeling at all. I did, however, manage to shoot one scratch round at our little nine-hole course—five birdies, three bogies, and a double-bogie. That never happened again.
I spent a grand total of 11 years in school and training to become an emergency doctor. Like many doctors in similar specialties, I've always been one to look at medicine as more of a job than a calling, although this concept is a spectrum. Some doctors might be 90% calling and 10% job, while others are 90% job and 10% calling.
I knew in medical school that I had many other interests outside of medicine and that I wasn't going to be happy being a resident for seven years or for working 80 60 40 hours a week for the rest of my life. But that didn't mean I didn't LOVE doing it for 20 or even 30 hours a week. It turns out there is really not much in my life I actually enjoy doing for more than 20 hours a week, but I've got a dozen things I could spend 10 hours a week doing and love every minute of it.
At any rate, it seems a waste to spend a large chunk of my life training to perform a valuable, much-needed service that I enjoy performing and then stop doing it completely as soon as I get good at it just because I had enough money to do so. (Studies tend to show doctors about a decade out of residency are the most competent, and patient preference surveys agree.)
My “other job” running the WCI Empire is also enjoyable to me and lends purpose to my life where I feel like I'm making a big difference in the lives of others. Why would I want to stop that?
Kids Matter, Too
Finally, I've got three school-age children and one about to graduate from high school. I would like to go on more adventure trips than I currently go on (I know it seems I already go on an insane number to some of you). However, it isn't money or time that is keeping me from going on more trips. It is that my wife doesn't want me leaving her home with the kids for 3-10 days at a time any more than I do now. [Don't give me crap: the year I originally wrote this, she went without me on three trips, including one to Finland, Sweden, Estonia, and Russia.]
Perhaps the most important thing I'm doing in my life right now is raising kids, which I also enjoy. I'll be 58 by the time my youngest gets out of the house. Given that I currently have two jobs I enjoy already, both of which pay me well, and given that I can't go on any more trips than I'm already going on and still take care of things that are more important to me than the trips, what would be the point in dropping work completely? Might as well keep working. It will allow me to have more money than planned to leave to my kids, give to charity, help others, pay toward the education of my children, spend in retirement, and spend now.
Plus I get to save a few lives, reassure a lot of anxious people, and help a whole bunch of docs stop doing dumb stuff with their money. Maybe I'll change my mind eventually, but it seems unlikely to me for now.
8 Things You Can Do with Financial Independence Besides Retire Early
#1 Lower Future Expenses
If you're financially independent, you can cancel your term life and disability insurance. That was $500 a month for me before I dumped my disability insurance in 2018, and I'm sure many of you are spending even more than that. You also could retire mortgage or student loan debt (if you haven't already) and possible future educational costs (by saving more now for them rather than cash-flowing them).
#2 Lower Risk
Dr. William Bernstein, author of The Investor's Manifesto, likes to say “When you've won the game, stop playing.” What he means by that is that when you acquire enough money to sustain yourself for the rest of your life, stop risking it. If you are financially independent but still working, you can dramatically lower the financial risks in your life by continuing to save and letting your investments compound—even if you use a less risky portfolio. You may go from a 4% withdrawal rate to a 2% withdrawal rate. Perhaps you can go from a 60% stock portfolio to a 40% stock portfolio. You don't have to invest on margin either. FI without RE can allow you to lower risk.
#3 Take Some Time Off
Who says retirement has to be a one-time activity? Why not do a bunch of mini-retirements throughout your career? If you're an academic, perhaps you can take an unpaid sabbatical. If you're a “gun-slinger” selling your services to the highest bidder, you can just stop accepting locums jobs for a few months or even a year, repeating as often as you like. If you're an employee, you can give your two weeks notice. Chances are good you can get another job in a few months. This one might be a little tricky if you have a private practice, but you could bring in a locums doc and have a nice, long, well-deserved vacation. You may find you miss work more than you think. Or you may find you don't miss it at all and decide that maybe early retirement really is for you.
#4 Go Part-Time
I guess I've done this one. Due to the rotating shifts, odd hours, lack of holidays, and high-paced work, most emergency physicians consider full-time to be a dozen 12-hour shifts or 15 8-to-9-hour shifts a month. In 2016, I went from 15 eights to 12 eights. What a marked improvement in lifestyle even that small change was! Imagine going half-time. I wonder how many burned-out doctors would fall in love with medicine again if they only worked half as much. I made that switch to half-time in 2018, and now I'm working six shifts a month.
#5 Drop Unpleasant Parts of Your Job
I did this one, too. I didn't just drop three random shifts in 2016. I dropped my three overnight shifts—you know, the ones that start at 10pm. Missing out on your entire anchor sleep is painful, and the patients who come to an ED at night are not the same as the ones who come to an ED during the day (more drug-related issues, more psych issues, more Medicaid patients, lower acuity, etc.). There was a significant loss of income because of this decision, since our group pays those overnight shifts the best (by far). But what an improvement in my practice and my lifestyle.
I got up at 7 or 8 most days energized to get things done. I lost 10 pounds and got myself in much better cardiovascular and muscular shape. No more DOMAs (Day Off My Arse—you know that day you worked until 6 or 8 am but are starting a transition back to day shifts). I get to go to bed the same time as my wife 27 out of 30 days a month (instead of more like 20 due to all the weird schedule flipping).
In your case, perhaps it is also dropping night shifts. Or perhaps you'd like to see patients at a slower pace. Or drop weekends. Or quit taking call. Or do less clinic or less obstetrics or less trauma. Whatever it is, financial independence could allow you to mold your practice into your ideal practice.
#6 Get a New Job
Sometimes, your job just sucks. But you need it because it pays more than a job that doesn't suck. Guess what? When you don't need the money, you can walk away and take the good job that pays less. Hanging around on FIRE blogs and forums sometimes made me wonder if many of those people just have sucky jobs. There's nothing quite like hating what you spend 40-60 hours a week doing that will motivate you to save 60% of your income.
#7 Change Careers
Maybe you realized medicine isn't your dream career after all. Unfortunately, it is the only way to pay off your student loans and that big mortgage you took out. And it's the only way to save enough to become financially independent any time soon. Once you reach financial independence, you can move into either a better job or an entirely different career. It may pay dramatically less; these are often called “encore careers.” Perhaps you would like to be a river guide or a host for a travel company. Or a ski instructor. Or a painter. Who knows? But if you don't have to work for money, you can do any job you like. Retirement is squishy anyway. Lots of people earn money while “in retirement.” Only the Internet Retirement Police care.
#8 Spend More
Imagine this scenario. You get to your financial independence number and realize you still like doing your job, which pays you very well. Now what? Well, now you start looking around to see if there are any ways you could spend money that might make you happier. Perhaps you can give more to charity. Perhaps you toss some more into your kids' 529 plans. Maybe you'd like to try heli-skiing. Or take your family on some expensive foreign trips. Or drive a Tesla instead of a Camry. Or renovate your home.
As long as these expenses are one-time, lump-sum expenses without an ongoing spending commitment, they won't affect your financial independence one bit. You probably ought to be a little careful about that hedonic treadmill, but it seems unlikely to me that someone with the financial knowledge and discipline to become financially independent in their 40s is going to get themself into financial trouble by loosening up a bit.
What do you think? What else can financial independence do for you besides allow you to retire early? Are you financially independent? If so, have you retired? Why or why not? If you are not financially independent, when do you expect to become so? Will you retire then? Comment below!
[This updated post was originally published in 2017.]
I vacillate between two visions of what my life after financial independence will look like: part-time work for me (radiologist) and retirement for my wife (pediatrician) for an indefinite period of time, versus some type of complete retirement for both of us with a period of extended travel as a family.
The big X-factor is my two young children, who should be around 8 and 5 when we hit full FI. This would be a good time for 1-2 years of extended travel. I could see myself homeschooling them at this age, but as they get older the homeschooling option becomes more intimidating (at least to me). Plus, their desire to spend time with dorky parents will quickly drop off starting in the tween years.
After travel, we could settle back down somewhere and either go back to work part-time, or find that “encore career.” I’ve always wanted to try curling.
Curling’s not much of a career, but it is a lot of fun! I’ve been in a weekly league the last three years.
I agree with you on the timing with the kids — our boys are 6 & 8, and I think we’ve got a great window between now and the high school years to be location independent, “road school” and see the world with them.
After taking my rugrats to Japan this summer, I’m not sure seeing the world with my school age kids is anywhere near as high on my list of desired activities as it seems to be for many FIRE bloggers. I can’t imagine enjoying doing that for months at a time. A week or two was plenty, and all they seem to care about is whether they can find a place with french fries to eat and whether the hotel has a pool or not. Hope it’s different when they’re teenagers.
Yeah, I don’t know about kids and travel. We have traveled with the kids for years (Bahamas, Costa Rica, river trips on the Green River in Utah, llama packing trips. This summer we took my 16 and 12 year old to France. The 16 year old was pretty good, and the 12 year old lost three pounds (no Cheerios or Mac’n’cheese in France), but altogether kids just don’t seem to enjoy travel all that much. They like sameness and continuity, and playdates with their friends. Maybe some kids travel better than others, but this seems consistent among my fairly active friends. In addition to not relishing travel, as they get older it gets more difficult in some respects because the kids start getting opinionated about hanging close to their friends, being involved in sports/activities, etc. Also when they get older they want to do their own travel: my older one has been to Peru with a school trip, is going to Europe on another school trip next summer, has been to the other side of the state with orchard/farm internships, and is traveling out of state for her sport with her friends. Our role in this is to simply pay for it all.
I think travel with kids depends on the kid. I was 10 and my brother was 12 for our first big international trip (China & Japan) and I had a blast. I’m sure there was some unpleasantness along the way, but I remember the trip fondly and was fascinated enough that I still recalled tiny details from the tours and sites when I returned many years later. Maybe I was just a weird kid. That said, it may not have been as awesome for my parents — especially since my dad insisted on doing the whole 3-week, 5-city trip with carry-ons only.
Oh, it is so different when they are teenagers. Where is the WiFi? How far is the hike today? Tell me you didn’t just use all of the hot water. How long are we going to be gone again?
cd :O)
“Where is the WiFi? ” I traveled with a group of university students/recent grads this summer. The exact same thing, that and taking pictures of every meal. Was in a pub in Dublin that had a sign: “We have no WiFi. Talk to someone!”
My spouse and I agreed pretty unanimously no cultural/sightseeing trips with kids, maybe high school age at the earliest. We both hated those types of trips growing up, seeing different cities and their attractions, seeing the sights (even the Grand Canyon!) bored us and we don’t feel we gained much memories or “personal growth” from these experiences, despite the fact that we love these types of trips as adults. Some of our most memorable trips growing up were to disneyland, the annual family ski/beach trip, etc.
When I was a kid my favorite part of travel was getting to the hotel and getting back home. As a result of all that traveling I endured as a child I no longer have a desire for international travel. please don’t torture your kids by forcing them to travel!
My husband and I are considering taking a year off in a few years and spending it in an RV visiting all 48 states with our 2 kids. And perhaps our friends and their 2 kids. It would be totally insane. But an adventure that none of us would ever forget. We’ll see if it happens.
We have yet to do any international travel outside of Canada and Mexico with our kids. We’re not that brave. But we take lots of trips in the US, which is fun. Going with friends is the best way to do it because then the kids have friends too.
I would try it before you buy it. I learned on our recent trip to Japan that some of the ideas that sound awesome in our head aren’t quite as awesome when you actually try them. Sharing an RV with another family for a year would definitely be one of those for me.
Oh gosh, we would not be sharing RVs! That really would be nuts. Taking separate RVs but traveling around together. We already travel and spend a lot of time together so I know we would get along. This idea is not at all fully fleshed out, just in the beginning stages of ” we could do this . . . ” I’m also contemplating a move to New Zealand. Clearly I’m wanting some sort of adventure but not yet sure what form it will take yet.
That does sound better. I’d still do a 2-4 week trip and see how you like it before launching off on a year-long trip though.
My brother visited 34 states and several Canadian provinces in a RV he bought after retiring from IBM. He RVed with a group up to Alaska. His son recently retired from the Air Force and spent a year sailing around the Caribbean before getting a job with SW airlines.
“Update prior to publication: We paid off the mortgage in between the time I wrote this post and when it ran.”
There’s some extra fun-money cash flow for ya! 🙂
Great post. You are blessed to love your job and I can see why early retirement isn’t a strong appeal. Too bad more people aren’t in careers with the same level of passion.
Financial independence is all about flexibility and options. Keep your job or not. Work the hours you want, not that you HAVE to work. Etc.
I was thankful to be FI already when my father was diagnosed with cancer. I was able to spend almost every day with him for his last 13 months. I would have struggled quite a bit had I been in a situation where I HAD to report to work 50+ hours per week rather than support my parents during that time. That was priceless for me.
OMG. Love it. I have done most all of those changes after reaching FI. I just never thought it through. You wrote what is in my own head clearer that I could have. A few coworkers ask me at times, “why the heck do you keep working if you don’t need the paycheck.” It is a tough one to answer, but mostly the reasons are in this post. I’m definitely near the calling end of the spectrum. It is about service to other people. Not everyone here is too religious so I won’t dwell on that part. I think all work can be seen as a calling. We are helping others when we help ourselves with paid employment. If I crash my car outside of SL I would benefit from you being at work.
I get a lot out of work. The praise, the satisfaction, the intellectual challenge, the learning, the comradery, the structured day, the benefits, and yes the paycheck. Last and maybe least.
I agree with wealthydoc that their is satisfaction beyond the paycheck that has kept me working. It also lowers your sequence of returns issues because your nest egg keeps compounding.
I agree with the calling portion. I don’t love every part of my job but there are parts I truly love, that I would definitely miss whenever I retire. For me I’m doing something I wanted to do since sixth grade. When I take stretches off…I miss it. So FI yes but RE prob not until 60 if things go as planned. My kids are 11,12 and 16 so hoping to be FI and child free in 7 years. Then the world is my oyster, but will work for the love of it.
My thoughts on this post……I am now 60 but have been financially independent since age 45. I actually got a MBA at 49 with the intention of changing careers but did not because my father became vey ill and died (slow process) and I got married at 52. As an OB/GYN the life style problem is obstetrics. With financial independence I started sharing call with a total of 6 people so I worked every 6th weekend. I dropped office hours. Then I resigned from a second hospital that I covered and finally quit OB completely at 56. Now I work 3 days a week. I really have no call or weekends. I still operate. I make more than enough from dividends and interest from a taxable account to live a nice lifestyle without even touching the principle. Your point number 2 about lowering the risk of your portfolio after financial independence is a point that the younger docs need to understand.
Glad to see another OB GYN on here that has done well. Glad you still love the surgery part. With how things are changing from a hospitalist/laborist standpoint, I may cut back on office and surgery and just cover inpatient.
You’ve described my life to a tee except that I am 68. I’m working 20 hours in Family Practice and love it. Problem is I can’t find any doctors that think like you and I. Nobody who wants to live 50 miles from the beautiful Gulf beaches and 15 miles from the hunting woods. So far my staff has stuck with me, but not sure I can keep the doors open working half time. If you know anyone that thinks like us and wants to live in the sunny south, send them my way.
Thanks,
Gary Kolb, DO
I spend a lot of time convincing people that FI is a worthy goal, whether or not you have any interest in the ability to retire early. I’ve also hypothesized that it’s difficult to truly evaluate whether or not you would want to retire early (or cut back to part time) until you’re actually in a position to do so.
I’ve got 6 weeks of full time work remaining, after which I’ll be working part time (0.6 FTE) for at least a year or two. That will give me a good taste of what lots more time off will be like. We just booked our first 3-week trip as a family, which will be a Spanish immersion experience late fall.
Cheers!
-PoF
Glad to hear there are other things to do during FI instead of taking pics of oneself on a laptop on a beach. I really like the idea of just getting rid of the stuff from your work you don’t like. Something as simple as working somewhere much closer to your home or knocking off one day of work per week can give you a whole new outlook on life.
Even though I’m not religious, upon retirement I followed the biblical admonition, “It’s more blessed to give than receive”. I have all the creature comforts I need, and have been everywhere I want to go, so I give to others: Youngsters getting an education (students are always broke), those dealt a bad hand in life, those temporarily in need. I like to identify situations that could benefit by a little financial help. I love to see faces light up upon the receipt of an unexpected, but needed, cash donation. It makes me feel much better than spending on myself and I don’t want to be the richest man in the cemetery.
Great article! I completely agree that FI provides a number of important benefits even if you like your job and continue working. Simply the reduction in financial stress is worth the “sacrifice” of achieving early FI. Money is a top stressor in our lives and leads to many health issues (which we are still figuring out) and relationship issues.
My wife and I are still working even though we are FI but we feel like we have choices to say no at work now and are not stressed about money like we used to be. It’s a great feeling!
Question for those of you who have successfully done this: how willing are employers to actually let you practice part time? From a business owner standpoint, it’s cheaper to hire one full time doc than it is to have two part time ones, so I would think many would be resistant to this idea.
This is part of the problem with so many docs being employees. But the bottom line is you are the one with the rare and valuable skills. When their alternative is a half time doc or no doc, most of them will take a half time doc.
I was able to go part time because I own my practice.
I anticipate this may be an issue as well. I don’t own my practice and have no desire to, so I may have no choice but to straight up quit when the moment arises.
Would love to have part time docs to fill in. Seems like few want to leave the snow for the sunny south.
Depends on how much they need you. As a psychiatrist, I think it’s pretty easy to get part time work because they need you more than you need them. In my clinic, there’s only one full time doc, the rest of us are all part time.
I had a GS job first with VA then DOD. Neither would grant me part time and I couldn’t find anyone (to include spouse) who would job share. Unwilling to go without FTCA malpractice coverage I didn’t bother with other options, though earlier with FTCA via an FQHC they had granted me part time work- wasn’t certain I could return to them after departing, and of course they rarely need someone other than primary care or psych. Decided working wasn’t worth risking our retirement savings/ hassle of getting commercial malpractice (and commercial malpractice burnt me badly 20 years ago by doubling cost of tail once I was actually buying it).
Great post, Jim. Good points and important issues nicely covered.
Going part time when I reach FI or near FI seems to be more and more what I am leaning towards. I could work 60% at my current job (work just in the AM except when I am on call? Sounds pretty sweet to me). Or i could do a few weeks of locums work a year. It would be time away from the family or maybe they could travel with me, either way I could see somewhere new.
I hit FI in my early 40s, however I like to work and it gives me a purpose. I do take a lot of expensive trips like 40k to Italy, but that’s why I keep working in a very high paying field. Also since I hit FI, I made a new goal of having an 8 figure taxable stock account. Hey we all need goals, and that should keep me working for a few more years.
I was able to go part time because I own my practice. It is easy to find staff who are looking for part time jobs too. It will not work if you are in a high rent building.
Congrats on spending $180k per year and still having a high savings rate! I think more people don’t retire after FI because once you do, you pretty much know that you have reached the highest net worth you will ever have, and it is downhill from there. I know for myself, FI is more of a game with a specific goal to shoot for rather than a point at which I will retire. The first goal was $1M, then it was $1M liquid, then it was $2M, etc. I enjoy tracking my spending and monitoring my net worth and comparing to my projections (I’m a nerd I know). Once my net worth starts to steadily decline year after year, I am sure that tracking it will not be as fun!
You know it doesn’t usually decline, right, at least on a nominal basis? On average, following a 4% rule, after 30 years you have 2.7X what you retired with.
That’s a fair point. Let’s say you assume 6% returns and withdraw 4%, that’s net a 2% return. 1.02^30 -1 = 81% increase. 2.7x seems to use an 8.5% return rate. Although 8.5% is supported by historical returns, it seems high, especially if you start to de-risk your portfolio in retirement. I don’t have a crystal ball, but retiring around now, potentially at the peak of a bull market, would also seem to enhance sequence risk.
2.7X doesn’t come from using any particular assumed return. It comes from the historical data.
https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/how-much-will-you-probably-die-with/
Using the historical data is assuming a particular return, no? i.e. you are assuming the next 30 years return the average of the 1926-2009.
Yes, you’re assuming the future will look like the average of the past. But the point is that most of the time your assets grow during retirement if you’re using a withdrawal rate anywhere near what most consider to be safe in the worst case scenario.
Great article and very close to where we are. We can technically retire right now and never work another day in our lives. It would require a very minor decrease in spending which may very well be doable by simply not working (less gas, less eating out, looking for better deals with the extra free time.) On the other hand I am slowly cutting back on work and instead increasing our spending making FI slightly out of reach. Just recently we flew to Europe and opted to pay for first class because our time was limited and getting the extra sleep on the plane allowed us to enjoy our destination 1 extra day. Other areas we are spending more on is our home. We are making some changes not because it will increase the value of the house, but because it will make our home more comfortable and enjoyable for us. Although FI was/is within reach I find that the closer we get to it, the more we loosen those purse strings and find it just slightly out of reach.
I can tell you for a fact that for me, working less has rejuvenated my desire to practice medicine. All of a sudden those drug seekers are less draining, a computer slowdown doesn’t make me want to throw it across the room, and a hemolyzed BMP is not the end of the world.
One big thing that really keeps me working is our recent very long bull market. A recession is coming and unfortunately I don’t know when. I just don’t want to quite and have a recession come right afterwards. I want a decent income during that recession so that we don’t have to sell anything, rebalance as needed, and hopefully be even more financially secure on the other side.
Good article. I just turned 54 a few weeks ago and could retire at any time. I worked the most hours of anyone in my 30 man group for years and have just started to cut back. My wife doesn’t want me to retire since she claims I would be bored silly and she’s probably right. I am currently working on building a Factory Five GTM kit car which has been a great learning experience along with a lot of frustration. But it does show me that its not too hard to find other avenues to spend time that can be enjoyable and fulfilling. I liked the poster’s comments above who advocated giving money directly to those who could use a hand up. I have always given to organizations, mainly due to the tax benefit. It would be nice to see the immediate results in someones life.
I’m impressed with the scratch round… I assume you play the same holes twice to make a full 18 hole round? I can see why that would get boring after weeks on end. I count 5 birdies, 4 bogeys, and a double as one over par… better get back out there!
Crap, I’ll fix that. It was 3 bogies, and yea, it was only 9 holes. No way could I pull off that round twice.
Scratch round with 0 pars? That’s impressive.
Yea, never even got close again after that. Rarely play now.
I agree that something fun becomes not so fun around the 20 – 30+ hour mark. Part-time work once reaching FI is appealing to me.
we could spend about $108K a year, or about $11K a month
Hmm, math does not add up. No one noticed 108K/year is 9K/month?
How embarrassing. You’re right, of course. Fixed now.
Before my goal was to FIRE and stop working asap, but over time that perspective has softened. The goal now is still early FI, but even that has softened, rather than going all out to get FI asap, I’m more open the idea of getting close to that number then re-evaluating. Instead of 30x expenses, maybe aim for 20x expenses, or 30x essential expenses only, then re-evaluating my work-life. After considering why I want to RE, I realized I can probably still pursue more than enough of my hobbies/interests working even part-time, and I can certainly see the negatives of doing too much of one thing. Add to that the benefits of continuing to bring in an income: financial stability, save less and/or spend more, more compounding, more tax-advantaged savings, smaller nest egg, etc. Moreover, for a variety of reasons and under particular circumstances, I feel that medicine can lend itself well to a lengthy career. Maybe I’m naive but I feel that if docs didn’t have to worry about money and could practice medicine the way they wanted, many of them would continue in some capacity well into old age.
I know you said it is squishy, but I was curious about an off-topic question of website valuation (I know nothing about it). 2-3 times earnings sound fine but what about for sites like this where if POF, Whitney and you quit/retire, so the brand is gone? Would you have to sell the site to another good doc writer to keep the valuation or would you say the site is only good cash flow as long as you and POF keep writing? I guess this “key-person” issue is similar at a lot of websites/small businesses?
P.S. You aren’t allowed to quit writing here until your kids can take over 🙂
Valuation is tricky. This particular website is worth more with me than without me, but it certainly has plenty of value without me. It’s the search traffic that makes the money, not the regular readers who leave comments like you.
I enjoyed ur uses of the term “empire” in this post!!! 🙂
Everybody knows “Empire” was the best of the movies anyway.
I think my favorite part of this post was the section “work matters”. I feel the exact same way. I get bored with too much time on my hands, when I vacation or travel or get out of my routine too much. Work helps me to feel anchored, it gives me direction, it helps me value the time I’m not working more. I just enjoy life more when it includes some work. Of course, I know this comes from a privileged place because I work part time. When I was working 60 hours a week as a resident, I hated work 😉 It’s best when it’s balanced with other things in life.
There are some articles you write that a person close to or past FI should re-read every year. This is one of them.
Thank you for your kind words.