The following is a guest post by John Bisges, MD, a radiology PGYIII at the University of Mississippi who previously served three years as a flight surgeon in the USAF. John contacted me with a question a few months ago, and although I'm not sure I ever really answered it, I was able to talk him into submitting a guest post on how he is using his GI bill to supplement his residency pay. I hope you enjoy it.
FDR Signing the GI Bill
The transition from active duty to civilian life can be a difficult one, especially when a young physician is returning to residency training. One of the stresses is the substantial salary reduction as a resident. Fortunately the GI Bill can be used in residency or fellowship training, and can be a significant help in easing the transition into residency training.
Two Types of GI Bill
There are a couple of things a young physician should do regarding the GI Bill well before leaving active duty. The first is to make a decision as to whether he will use the Post 9/11 GI Bill or the Montgomery GI Bill. Either one will pay benefits to physicians in residency training in the form of a monthly stipend for living expenses. The Post 9/11 GI Bill appears to be more advantageous to the typical active duty member leaving the military for college, since it provides more complete coverage of tuition and fees and pays them directly to the school. For the future resident who will not be paying tuition, this advantage does not matter. A further difference is that enrollment in the Post 9/11 Bill is free, whereas the Montgomery GI Bill requires an enrollment fee of $1200 while on active duty.
The second thing to do prior to leaving active duty (at least if you plan to use The Montgomery GI Bill), is to take advantage of the buy-up program. The Montgomery GI Bill offers an additional feature that makes it more attractive for the resident physician: a buy-up program. If you put in $600 before leaving active duty, you can have $150 added to your living stipend every month for the full duration of your GI Bill benefits (36 months). That’s $600 for a $5400 payoff. Tough to beat that kind of investment. The important thing is that you must do the buy-up while on active duty. I recommend visiting your base’s finance department and setting it up to have it deducted from your paycheck, and keeping a copy of the receipt for your own records.
Make Sure the Program Qualifies for GI Bill Benefits
Once you’ve made the choice of which Bill you would like to receive, you will need to check the VA’s website to see if your school is registered with the VA as an approved education program. Virtually every school in the country is; however if your residency is a small community program, getting it registered as an approved education program is not onerous and well worth your time.
Once you’ve done the search for your program, you will be provided with a list of certifying officials at your school. These are the people who will be completing your paperwork once you arrive at your program and sign your residency contract. Once your residency contract is signed and in hand, you can go to the certifying official to get your benefits paperwork completed. Once in, this paperwork will have to be renewed with your certifying official annually for every year you are in residency.
After completing your paperwork, you will be enrolled to the VA W.A.V.E. website. This keeps track of your benefit information. Every month you will have to visit this website and confirm that you were enrolled in your program for the previous month. Once you do, a paycheck will arrive in your bank account from the US Treasury about a week later. The check is completely tax-free.
Be Careful Paying Licensing/Board fees
The Montgomery GI bill does have an option to pay for licensing and board fees. However, every licensing or board fee you use the benefit for consumes a month of your eligibility for benefits. Since these fees are typically substantially less than your typical monthly stipend, using this option is rarely a good idea.
The two GI bills have an important difference on how much they actually pay per month. I remember having a good discussion with one of the finance counselors at my base regarding this since she typically worked with enlisted folk going to college, for whom the Post 9/11 Bill was better since it paid tuition and fees directly to the school, and then gave a housing stipend to you. The Montgomery GI Bill version simply gives all of the money to the member, and trusts them to budget accordingly.
How Much Does It Pay?
For the Montgomery GI Bill there's a set monthly rate for anywhere in the country that increases with inflation each October 1. Since October 2011, it is paying $1473 (+ the $150 buy-up). The Post 9/11 Bill's monthly stipend is equivalent to the BAH for an E5 with dependents at the location of your school (and of course no buy-up program.) For my location in Mississippi, this would only have been about $1100 a month, so the Montgomery GI Bill was a better deal for me. For someone living in New York City though, this BAH would exceed the Montgomery GI Bill's set stipend. When I made my rank list for the match, I also plugged the zip codes in to an online BAH calculator. I was applying mostly to the South and Midwest, so the Montgomery GI Bill was the best option. For someone who is applying to the Northeast or California where housing is more expensive, the Post 9/11 is a better deal.
Qualifying for the GI Bill
You have to have been on active duty for at least 36 months to receive full Montgomery GI Bill benefits. For the post 9/11 Bill you are eligible for benefits if you served on active duty for a total of 90 days after 9/10/2011. Neither bill makes any distinction based on your rank. For instance, if a separating military physician chose the Post 9/11 Bill, it doesn't matter that he left the Air Force as a single O-3; his monthly stipend is still based on the BAH of an E-5 with dependents.
Conclusion
In conclusion, the GI Bill is a great benefit provided to veterans and any young physician returning to training should strongly consider using it supplement their income during their residency years. It really served me well to look into the distinction between the two Bills well before I separated, since I knew that the Montgomery GI Bill would be the better deal wherever I matched. Knowing this gave me the time to maximize my benefits under the Montgomery GI Bill (via the buy-up program) before leaving active duty.
Have you used the GI Bill for medical school or residency? What was your experience like? Any tips you can add in the comments below?
A couple of things to add that were not mentioned above…
1) If you opt for the Montgomery GI Bill and exhaust all 36 months of benefits, you are then eligible for an additional 12 months of the post-9/11 GI bill. This only works if you use the Montgomery GI bill first though. So if you do a 4 year residency after serving at least 3 years of service, you could get a stipend each month of residency.
2) The post-9/11 GI Bill also has a transferibility clause in it that allows you to transfer your benefits to any number of your dependents. Certainly service commitments need to be met, but when you consider how expensive college education will be in the future for the next generation, this probably is the best deal regarding the GI Bill
3) A few random thoughts…Regarding getting your training program approved. If it is not on the approved list of programs, get the ball rolling as early as possible as this seems to be the rate limiting step. At least 6 months in advance is usually required to get paid on time for the first month… Save copies of all payments into the GI Bill and “kicker”, as you will need these as proof of payment… Enrollment certification needs to be completed on a annual basis. Some VA certifying officials can be fairly incompetent, so I usually send the for to the VA education office myself
Thanks Seth! Great comment.
Caveat to #2 in the above comment:
It currently takes a minimum 4 year RESIGN to transfer benefits to a child (unless you have greater than 10 years already). It is a great deal if you are planning on staying in for 4 more years but I wouldn’t consider it a reason to stay on for four more years…just a nice bonus.
Also wanted to add that if you come into the military on a scholarship (HPSP, ROTC) after 9/11. You no longer qualify for the Montgomery GI Bill but you can still get the Post 9/11 (which is better anyways), however I believe you have to finish your initial commitment time before you can actually use it. Or so I have been told.
Are we able to transfer the Post 9/11 to a child after we complete the military pay back time? I am currently a resident and was on the HPSP scholarship. If not, would I be able to use the Post 9/11 while I am in a military sponsored residency? Thanks
I’m no expert, but a quick google search for these requirements for the transfer of the Post 9/11 GI Bill to a child:
http://gibill.va.gov/benefits/post_911_gibill/transfer_of_benefits.html
Any member of the Armed Forces (active duty or Selected Reserve, officer or enlisted), who is eligible for the Post-9/11 GI Bill, and:
Has at least 6 years of service in the Armed Forces (active duty and/or Selected Reserve) on the date of approval and agrees to serve 4 additional years in the Armed Forces from the date of election.
Has at least 10 years of service in the Armed Forces (active duty and/or Selected Reserve) on the date of approval, is precluded by either standard policy (Service or DoD) or statute from committing to 4 additional years, and agrees to serve for the maximum amount of time allowed by such policy or statute.
Is or becomes retirement eligible and agrees to serve an additional 4 years of service on or after August 1, 2012. A service member is considered to be retirement eligible if he or she has completed 20 years of active Federal service or 20 qualifying years as computed pursuant to section 12732 of title 10 U.S.C.
Such transfer must be requested and approved while the member is in the Armed Forces.
Hope that helps.
During fellowship, what happens to the “lump sum” $16k that the 9/11 bill provides the “school”?
Does this go to the fellow, or is it a wash? I have been given conflicting information regarding whether or not we receive this in addition to the BAH.
Thanks in advance.
Which bill are you talking about and where are you getting the $16K figure from? Is that the total of the monthly living stipends on the post 9/11 GI bill? If so, I’d say the “school” should be giving that to you.
I am starting a fellowship in the southern California region in July 2013. I was told by the university’s GME office that the fellowship program that I have been accepted in is not accredited by the ACGME because this particular fellowship program chose not to, and thus I do not qualify for the post 911 GI Bill benefits/stipend. Is this true? I don’t see how the GI bill benefits can be approved for fellowship programs being accredited and not approved for the nonaccredited programs when every fellowship is an apprenticeship/on-the-job-training with long hours and little pay.
I think it is true. This is obviously an important thing to check when applying to fellowships if you’re planning on getting GI bill money. It’s like making sure your residency is a 501(c)3 if you’re planning on doing PSLF. If I were you I’d be all over that fellowship director to try to get it accredited if possible.
I just spoke with a VA education specialist, who is extremely helpful and supportive. According to him, the VA rules requiring programs to be ACGME accredited are outdated by 50+years and were for residency programs and not geared for fellowship programs. There are many well-known and famous fellowship programs that are not ACGME accredited. As a result, the veterans who need their GI bill stipends to offset the living cost of a low-paying but very sought after fellowships would either have to take out loans from banks/families to be fellows in these programs or choose less well-known programs that are ACGME accredited. I don’t know how many of you out there are or will be in similar situations, but the only way to change this is to write to our Congress to change these outdated rules/regulations. If you are or will be in non-ACGME accredited fellowships, please call the VA education specialist assigned to your area for help. If we show them that there are many of us out there, the rules are more likely to change so we can get the GI Bill benefits we have earned through serving the US military.
Would love to know where you found a VA representative with a clue about using the GI bill for a fellowship. I’m sitting in Transition GPS class right now with the Navy and our instructor plus the many reps sitting in the hallway look at me like I have five heads when I try to ask.
Quick question for those that have used the post 9/11 GI bill for Fellowship:
I got the ball rolling on getting my program certified with VA early, which was great advice.
I filled out an application myself several months ago and received my “eligbility” certificate stating that I was eligible for 90% of the benefits. Is this based on my length of service so far (haven’t hit exactly 36 months active duty yet) or is this based on the type of “educational program” the fellowship was considered?
Thanks in advance.
Quick question; does anyone remember how their residencies/fellowships were “classified” on the certification of enrollment form?
Mine was listed as “apprenticeship/on-the-job training.” It seems from the post-9/11 info on the VA website that this would only mean I’m only eligible for a reduced BAH during the second 6 months of fellowship….is this true?
Seth, White Coat:
What instruction, etc governs the fact that you can get a total of 48 months, ie 36 months from GI, then an additional 9 months from 9/11? I’ll be starting a four year residency in July. Thanks!
I have no idea. I hope he does.
All,
I was on HPSP during my time in medical school. I graduated in 2011 and went on active duty with the US Army. I did one year of rotating/transitional internship before being assigned as a GMO in the “operational” Army where I deployed and have practiced since. I’m leaving the Army to begin a civilian EM residency this summer. Not surprisingly, I hope to use the post 9/11 GI Bill. However, I spoke informally with a VA counselor here at Bragg who told me [paraphrasing] that because most/all of my time on active duty was spent paying back my ADSO, that I would not qualify for post 9/11 GI Bill. Or, I might qualify for a very small fraction. I have a “friend of a friend” who said that [as is often the case] we are outliers and the notion of paying back an ADSO will sort itself out as I apply for the GI Bill next week during my weeklong transitions workshop here at Bragg. My DD214 worksheet has NO marked for commissioned through service academy, commissioned through ROTC, and enlisted under loan repayment.
Anyone else experienced similar feedback or encountered this obstacle? It startled me a little bit because clearly the GI Bill is a significant supplement to civilian residency pay. I suspect that, as is often the case in the ARMY, it will hash itself out after progressing through multiple layers of misinformation. Nevertheless, I would appreciate any feedback.
Thanks so much. AIRBORNE ALL THE WAY!!
I don’t think that’s right. I don’t see any reason you wouldn’t get the GI bill. Thank you for your service.
WCI,
Roger that. Thanks for the quick reply. I’ll try to remember to update once it hashes out.
Enjoyed your book, it was recommended to me by my best friend who is a senior PM&R resident. He recently got to see you speak in Arkansas and gave tremendous positive feedback.
Thanks again for the quick response. ALL THE WAY!!
I’m sitting in Transition GPS class right now, and these guys have no clue, but they did tell me that any time spent paying back a training obligation, or time in training, does not count toward the months required to accrue GI bill benefits. i.e. one needs 36 months of active duty service to qualify for 100% of GI Bill benefits, or 24 months for 80%, etc — and that has to be after one’s done paying back a training obligation. That being said, I’m not sure my DD214 will accurately reflect this stuff, or that what they’ve told me here is correct. Side note — take an anxiolytic and/or bring work to do, because at least in the O-4 and below class, 98% of the week-long class is irrelevant to someone with an MD. But I’m Navy, your army mileage may vary.
I just did our Transition workshop last week. Most of the week was about writing a resume and how to apply for jobs. It was truly maddening. Our VA people also tried to tell me that I would not qualify because of the reason you stated. But yet I personally know guys who have made it work. Two possibilities stick out in my mind.
1) The VA folks just don’t know what they’re talking about when it comes to doctors. Would it be the first time someone military or govt civilian assured us up and down 100% they knew what they were talking about despite our polite insistence “sir/ma’am, I think it might be a little bit different for physicians….” Its not their fault, its just there are so few of us and we are handled quite differently. After insisting its ABC and cannot possibly be XYZ, you lose two weeks of sleep and find out it is in fact XYZ like you thought.
2) Alternatively they may be right that we only qualify for a percentage. Those of us in residency are really after the BAH stipend to live on; not paying for credit hours, books, school fees. So maybe we only qualify for a percentage but that percentage still exceeds whats needed for the VA to dole out the BAH stipend.
Who knows. I applied last night. Allegedly you can hear back YES/NO within three weeks. I’ll post an update.
AIRBORNE ALL THE WAY!!
Just wanted to let other readers know that the website to find out if your specific residency program is accredited with the VA, go here: http://ope.ed.gov/accreditation/
Not only does your hospital have to be credited, but the specific residency you attend has to be accredited.
Does anyone have any updates to if you were able to accrue your 36 months while in residency training or during payback of the ADSO for training?
Thanks for the reminder! I actually just got my letter last week. Approved!!
“This certifies that you are entitled to benefits for an approved program of education or training under the post 9/11 GI Bill….
… You have 36 months and 0 days of full-time benefits remaining…”
Talking with the school, not surprisingly, the veterans support office had no idea what a medical residency is. However, I gave them some prompting and put them in touch with some GME folks at my program. I was told yesterday that this school has not submitted an application for (therefore is not qualified to do so for) a residency program. So apparently they must get all their ducks in a row and get the green light that they are signed off to facilitate benefits for residency. Then they will do so for me. In short, I’m the first person in this situation they’ve dealt with, so it will happen, its just gonna take some time. No surprise. I was assured (and actually have a reasonable warm fuzzy) that the benefits will be good to go, its just gonna take time. Also, I will get back-paid.
AIRBORNE ALL THE WAY!!
Aaron, I am an AD doc coming off of AD July 01. I am starting a program in Pennsylvania but the both the program and the affiliated hospital are not VA approved. I have payed back my ADSO and then some. Who do I call to get the approval process started? Is there a form I need to fill out? Tanks in advance. Congrats to you as well. best
My hospital and program were not VA approved either. Stated another way, no one had ever tried to use the GI Bill at the hospital/program before. So, they had to start from square one to get it approved. They recently had some people from the state VA come and “inspect” it as part of the process. Not surprisingly, it was approved so supposedly I will be getting money “soon” lol. I’m not sure of all the specifics of how it was/is being accomplished, but my program is associated with Central Michigan University (CMU) as well as the actual hospital. So, I started by contacting a lady in the VA liaison office at CMU. She then collaborated with GME folks at the hospital. My advice would be to contact the VA liaison office and try and talk to a supervisor or someone a few echelons up. As you can imagine, the first few levels of people in that office that I had to wade through were completely clueless. No matter how slowly and clearly I explained the situation, I would get a blank pause followed by “…… so what are the course numbers for the courses you’re attending??” Also, start early and don’t hold your breath. I started in July and think/hope I am getting close. I had a mutual friend that went through the same process and was a year deep when he finally got paid. He got appropriately back-paid so he got all his money, but still recommend starting early.
ALL THE WAY!!
Has any of this changed?
My institution’s VA Certifying Official claims that starting in 2017, the VA will no longer be providing MGIB benefits to residents because residency is not a “degree conferring program”.
Me and a fellow former flight surgeon got our benefits last year, so I want to know if this is a VA wide change, or if she is just mistaken. Thank you.
Great question. I don’t know the answer unfortunately. Hopefully somebody else following this thread will.
i’m still getting benefits. Would like to know if this ends which would be total baloney. It’s already a crime how little residents get paid.
Aaron,
Similar story. Army HPSP. TY and now a GMO tour. Currently contemplating trying to match EM army or do another GMO tour to pay back my time and match civilian. Do you have to make any payments to qualify for the post 9/11 bill or is that strictly for the Montgomery? Thanks for your reply.
Negative. No payments needed to qualify for GI Bill.
AATW!!
TWI et al,
Just wanted to give a quick update. After months of waiting and my school and GME people going through all the first-time qualification stuff, I finally got paid. It included back pay to 01JULY2017 when I started [civilian] residency and was calculated using BAH with defendants at E-5 level. As you can imagine, the first check was quite significant and I was pleased to see that they did indeed honor all the back pay.
AIRBORNE!!
Defendants or dependents? Same thing really in my house.
Haha the same thing is exactly right!! Admit nothing, deny everything, make counter accusations!!
Thanks for everything, Dr. Dahle!!
AIRBORNE!!
I am on the HPSP scholarship but regardless let me get this straight, does the 3 years of AD for HPSP count for the 3 years eligiblity for the GI bill (or would i have to do 3 more years?)? I was aware that ROTC/Service academy AD obligations wouldn’t count but was wondering if HPSP is different
My understanding is it counts. I don’t think having a service obligation affects that 36 month time period.
http://www.benefits.va.gov/gibill/docs/pamphlets/ch33_pamphlet.pdf
My understanding is that the following would disqualify you from GI Bill, “commissioned through service academy, commissioned through ROTC, and enlisted under loan repayment.” Those are the things mentioned on the DD214. HPSP is none of those so it *is* different. If you look above, you can see where I chronicled some of my journey and what I was told along the way. I was told “no you won’t get it” along the way many times by people in uniform but thats because they don’t truly understand what HPSP is. As is often the case we are just a very small group of people in the Army with a lot of uniqueness regarding how things work with us. I had a friend that assured me I would qualify because my DD214 worksheet has NO marked for commissioned through service academy, commissioned through ROTC, and enlisted under loan repayment. It took several months but he was right.
AIRBORNE ALL THE WAY!!
Awesome, thanks for clearing this up!
A comment regarding using the Post 911 bill for non accredited fellowships. I was issued a letter stating that I was eligible for 100% of my benefits about 6 months prior to the start of my fellowship. Now after a year of calling my state political representatives, VA education officers, and filling out dozens of pages of required information, my non accredited ACGME fellowship in Pennsylvania is now recognized as a valid “certificate” program! of course even with the official VA letter in hand, I still haven’t seen my check yet…it has been 6 weeks since approval.
It will take a lot of work and patience but try to push your program through as a certificate program…not the apprenticeship track. It may be easier now that the Harry W. Colmery Veterans Educational Assistance Act was pushed through last week. But there was still no direct language bypassing ” ACGME requirement” unfortunately despite my pleads to state senators and representatives.
Best, Mike
Thanks for sharing your experience.
to clarify, try to push your non acgme accredited fellowship through as a non college degree program not “certificate”
Best, Mike
Mike Ting: thanks for that awesome pearl of information. I am currently a Musculoskeletal Radiology Fellow at UCSF and I have been denied Post 9-11 GI Bill Educational Benefits from the California State Approving Agency for Veteran’s Education (CSAAVE) using the Apprenticeship / On the Job Training avenue. Which is completely unwarranted and unfair since there are plenty of jobs out there that only an MSK Radiologist can fill.
I will now press the “Non College Degree Program” angle to get my well-earned VA Educational Benefits after 12 years active duty time. As you may image, the monthly paycheck I get as a Fellow doesn’t really cover my monthly living expenses in San Francisco, and I was planning on Post 9-11 GI Bill benefits to get through this Fellowship year to make ends meet.
Any other advise? Should I call my CA State Senators and local Congresswoman?
Will keep you all posted on what happens.
By the way, Jim, I have been reading your email newsletters for over 5 years now and love the information. Thank you for all you do to help us physicians find our way financially. Sorry I couldn’t make your conference in March 2018–cant’ get away as a Fellow this year–but hope to make any future ones if I can. Please consider holding another one in 2019. Thank you.
Sincerely, Paul
We’ll definitely consider, but it may become an every other year thing.
Hi Paul, I didn’t see your reply until now. Feel free to reach out but yes I did push calls to both my state representatives and senators. I am from maine, my fellowship is in PA, and I intend to return back home after fellowship. I called all of them from both states! The most important factor was that I found an advisor at the state approving agency that was sympathetic to my cause and worked with me. You also need someone at UCSF to help complete all the paperwork.
Best, Mike
Hi Paul,
I know your original message here is a couple years old at this point, but I’m in a somewhat similar situation to what you described here and was hoping you might be able to offer some clarification.
I’m finishing up my time as a GMO and just matched to a civilian residency at UCLA. My plan is to use the 9-11 GI Bill benefits to help make LA a bit more affordable for my family. I started applying for benefits almost immediately after matching, and have been back and forth with the UCLA folks themselves, but am getting a bit of push-back on the same front that you described above (Apprenticeship/OJT training). Any recommendations on how to proceed to get these benefits? Or is it a lost cause that I should just give up on now?
Title 38 → Chapter I → Part 21 → Subpart D → §21.4275
Practical training courses; measurement.
(a) Medical and dental residencies and osteopathic internships and residencies. VA will measure medical and dental residencies, and osteopathic internships and residencies as provided in §21.4270(c) of this part if they are accredited and approved in accordance with §21.4265(a) of this part.
(Authority: 38 U.S.C. 3688(b); Pub. L. 99-576)
SCO Handbook
Revision 5.1 (5th Edition)
page 49
Practical Training
Practical training is academic training that includes actual job experience. Practical training courses are considered to be resident training. Some practical training is measured in clock hours (medical residency, for example) and some practical training is measured in credit hours. When practical training is measured in credit by a school, the school can certify the course as credit or as clock hours, whichever is to the student’s advantage.
Well hot damn, I believe this is exactly what I was looking for. Thank you, kind stranger!
I would encourage you to not give up and stay at it. It’s like anything else doctor-related in the military. We are so unique and different from anyone else and we are such a small population; everyone is always clueless. And with varying degrees of motivation to become un-clueless and help out. Just stay at it and be patient and be prepared to give the same explanation, broken down Barney style, many times and to many people. Once it all finally shakes out, the money will be a big help and you’ll be glad you stayed at it.
AATW
Hi Andrew,
California is a lost cause. I know what the handbook says and the regs. But that doesn’t mean you will get your rightfully earned Post 9-11 GI Bill benefits in the State of California if you already have a doctorate.
I was trying to use my Post 9-11 GI Bill for Fellowship training (only one year long) at the University of California, San Francisco.
You are trying to use for residency at UCLA. Which is a bit different.
Basically, I applied / pushed three times and finally got through to the bureaucrat in Sacramento and she flat out told me that California has one of the largest populations of Veteran’s of all 50 States and her office was tasked with making sure the funds were used appropriately and she told me I was already a doctor and so therefore didn’t need any more training to get a job. CA is just a toxic environment now for average middle class working Americans. I argued my case that my friends in 4 other States (Maryland, Pennsylvania, Missouri and Florida) all got approved for nearly identical Fellowships but she didn’t want to hear it.
To the credit of UCSF, they helped me with my case, but it was still constantly denied in Sacramento.
Meanwhile, I had to draw off my savings for the entire year to cover my cost of living in San Francisco while I was a Fellow.
I went to med school in the SF Bay Area and I have family in California and I love it there. But their priorities are backwards now and it is unlikely I will ever live in that State again as I can’t bear paying the 12% State Income Taxes when they can’t even appreciate Veterans and make sure we get our earned benefits. This is not an entitlement, folks. We should not have to beg for the State’s to approve what the Federal Government wants to give us…that which we earned.
The rep in Sacramento that denied me also eluded that her office gets lawsuits over this issue. I contacted an attorney and he said I have a pretty good case, but no guarantee we would win and it may cost me a substantial amount of money (and time) to fight it.
With that said, my advise to you is to find a residency in a different State that is more friendly and just to Veteran’s. Nearly all the remaining 49 States will do.
Good luck.
Sincerely, Paul
How can California deny your federal benefits? That’s insane. Have you called your Congressman?
It is insane, Jim.
The system works like this. You apply online at eBenefits for Post-9-11 GI Bill and list your university. If you are eligible, as I am, you get an approval letter in the mail which you take to your school. Your school has an office that processes these letters from the VA simply by cross-checking them, or sending them, to your State’s office that handles VA benefits. If your program is already on that approval list, they fill out paperwork which goes back to the VA, then the money for housing and tuition flows.
If your program is not on the pre-approved list, then it goes to the State’s VA office, and then they decide if what you are doing should get approved or not. Here is the catch. California has a lot of Veteran’s rightfully using their earned Post 9-11 GI Bill benefits. But they feel obligated to vet each applicant, and if they feel you don’t need any additional training to work, as in my case, they simply tell you (as they did to me over the phone), that I didn’t need any more training to find a job and that they have lots of other folks in greater need of the money than me and that their office does not approve Post 9-11 GI Benefits for physicians doing Fellowship training.
I asked them to explain how my friends in nearly identical Fellowship programs in four other State’s were getting their earned Post 9-11 GI Benefits without any hassle at all, and they brushed that off saying that each State is different. Essentially denying my earned benefits.
I now live in Nevada and I always thought it was complicated getting Congressional support for an issue in another state.
Do you think I should contact my local Congresswoman, Dina Titus, or my previous Congresswoman, Nancy Pelosi? The issue was in Rep. Pelosi’s district.
And thank you for the advice. I may pursue this with renewed energy now. -Paul
I’d call both. Why not? What can it hurt?
Hi Paul,
Thanks for your insight, and so sorry you had such an awful experience. That sounds maddening, and the more digging I’ve done on this topic, completely inappropriate.
Looking at the WEAMS site now (https://inquiry.vba.va.gov/weamspub/submitBuildViewProgram.do), it does look like the MSK fellowship at UCSF is an approved program. Not sure if that was your doing or if it came after. But, based on what I’ve heard from all the other VA reps and certifying officials out there, getting your program listed here is the biggest hurdle. Once it’s there, the benefits are supposed to flow without any problem.
Based on your recent comments, looks like maybe you’re going to be reigniting your fight. If so, I hope this info is helpful.
Question for readers out there. I did HPSP medical school scholarship at Midwestern university from 2011-2015. I did my internship in el paso from ’15-’16. I am currently halfway through my derm residency from june 2016 to june 2019.
I am only planning on doing my 4 years of payback and then getting out and taking a civilian derm job in Oregon.
I am curious if the above scenario qualifies me for the GI Bill and more importantly if I transfer it to my children. Does anyone know if I would qualify?
Thanks in advance!!
You will qualify for the post-911. Youvcan transfer the benefits after serving 6 years and incur a 4 year commitment after.
Hey! I am doing my TY internship in EP at WBAMC right now! I will tell MAJ Ashburn you say hello! Yes, you will qualify and can pass 3 years of eligibility to your children. To qualify for the GI bill you must serve 4 years. You will serve 8 (1 TY, 3 DERM in SA, 4 years of payback).
Has anyone had any success using the post 911 GI Bill for CME? If yes, what was the benefit (conference fee, hotel, and-or airfare), and how did it impact your total benefit (how many months did it reduce your post 911 benefit by)?
Jamie, looking into this question about CME as well. Have you any updates to share?
Brett,
Unfortunately, I have not heard anything and my post 911 GI Bill has an expiration date
Sorry
Isn’t there the forever GI Bill?
Hi there! Found this thread through a google search! I’m separating from the Army this summer and starting a 1 year fellowship at MD Anderson and looking to use some sort of GI Bill benefit (BAH). I have received my certificate of eligibility from the VA, and the institution and fellowship have both been approved, but all of the contacts they provided as “certifying officials” at MD Anderson have NO IDEA about this and what to do. One of the people I reached on the VA helpline said I need to apply for On the Job Training using VA forms 22-1999 and 22-8864, but the people in GME aren’t being to helpful. I just want to make sure I’m submitting the correct forms so I can receive the most benefit from the GIB. And it seems MDA has no clue what to do so I’m going to have to figure this out myself.
Any help is GREATLY appreciated!!
-Keri
Wish I had somewhere to send you. Hopefully someone else will chime in with some help.
Keri,
Hopefully someone will have the answer on the WCI community side. But connect with me on global and join the MC FB group. The group may have someone who knows how to help. There are multiple other officer groups who might be able to ad well.
https://m.facebook.com/groups/2035591226721636?ref=m_notif¬if_t=group_comment_mention
Good luck!
Hello,
I am desperate for some assistance with my attempt to utilize the Montgomery GI Bill for my upcoming civilian residency after serving as a Navy GMO. There is no record of my submission of the DD 2366 opting out of the Mont GI Bill, but I also don’t remember ever paying into it. My residency is in a low BAH area so the Post-911 GI Bill would only pay out about $1400/mo. vs the Mont GI Bill of $2200/mo. Currently I work at a smaller Navy clinic (with only one PS2 who doesn’t how to help) and despite asking everyone about what to do and calling different people, have been unsuccessful. One of the Chiefs with whom I work submitted a DD 2366 and 2366-1 to my CO for approval, but who then receives those forms and to whom would I pay the $1200 and the buy-up $600? This is extremely stressful especially since my new salary will be less than 1/2 of my current salary. I am grateful for any help! Thank you.
Have you talked to your finance office? I’d start there.
We don’t have a finance office at my clinic…
There must be a finance office responsible for your clinic. Find it. It’s probably on the nearest base of significant size.
Emily,
I don’t know the answer to your question. But I can try to help you point you in the right direction. Find me on global.
Can try to ask you question to CAPT Schofer from mccareer dot org or the Education Center (eg Guidance Counselor
Army Continuing Education System-ACES) or a VA Transition Benefits Adviso at the VA Transition Assistance Program.
V/r,
MAJ Roy Guinto
That’s a good thought. He might even be able to give you the phone number.
Thanks so much, Major. I will contact CAPT Schofer and reach out to you as well for assistance if further needed. I’ll contact the disbursing office out of Norfolk tomorrow.