[Editor's Note: This is a lengthy guest post written by a long-time physician reader and his physician wife who wish to remain anonymous. We have no financial relationship.]
In August 2015, WCI published my guest post, Super Saving For An Early Retirement. When I first contacted the godfather of physician personal finance with my idea for that post, my motivation was to give something back to him and the blog community from which I've taken so much. For a “fluff piece” without much number-crunching meat, it seemed to strike a chord among readers as judged by the amount of interaction in the comments section. It wasn't a death-metal power-chord like when WCI takes whole life insurance salesmen to task, but it was a chord nonetheless. In any case, the post-guest post outcome was unexpected: I gained way more than I gave.
I intended to show unsophisticated investors (like me) that a high savings rate can compensate for lack of knowledge; you don't have to understand that much about the financial industry to do a credible job of preparing for early retirement. What I didn't anticipate was the impact that your (WCI's minions') collective wisdom in the comments section would have on me. While there were plenty of comments about the topic of super-saving, readers also took the conversation in surprising directions that forced me to ask, “What the heck am I doing with my life?”
Lessons Learned
With that preamble, the lessons I have learned:
#1 Change Your Job Now
If you spend much of each day in low-level burnout, fantasizing about giving Admin the middle-finger salute while walking out the door for the last time, perhaps you should change something now.
My wife (also a physician, remember) and I were so laser-focused on an imaginary finish-line that we had come to accept the “suck” as part of our lives, as if we had no power to control it. As we learned to endure the suck, it continued to fuel our desire to leave it all behind. Sure, it seems obvious that disliking your job will be a powerful motivator for achieving early retirement. But when the onset of burnout is insidious, you don't necessarily have an “a-ha” moment in which perspective is gained and the path to improving your current situation becomes clear. However, when one WCI commenter after another hammers away at your sense of powerlessness, suggesting that you can make changes, it helps jump start the process of introspection.
PsychMD was one of the first commenters to point out how I might work on my happiness now: “If I was in such a position, I’d tap into that young, naive, idealistic person I was before I started medical school, and try to make those dreams a reality…so I could have more of those rewarding moments.”
Then John hit me broadside with: “I am way behind you in terms of retirement but I can tell you I feel so much richer than you because I love coming to work everyday. I mean it is work sometimes but I love it.” He followed that up with a highly applicable anecdote: “I have a friend who was 41 when he looked at his portfolio and saw he had enough, so he reduced his patient time in half and started helping the hospital with the business/leadership side of things. He took a big pay cut but he slowed down and gets a lot out of his new job.”
This unleashed a torrent of similar comments that really resonated with me. Thinking about making some changes yourself? The Happy Philosopher has an entertaining, insightful blog dedicated to his journey in this realm.
#2: Pulling The Trigger Is Complicated
One of the frequent suggestions in the comments on my last post was to cut back my hours at work. With our accumulated assets, that would appear to be a no-brainer, right? Um, not so much. First, we had been obsessing for years over the concept of reaching the “finish line.” I used to play regularly with different online retirement calculators, getting a little endorphin rush every time one calculator's projections for a successful, even earlier retirement (portfolio lasts 50+ years) were verified by another. Cutting back at work would mean either extending our careers or decreasing our projected yearly spend in retirement.
Let's start with extending our careers. My wife was not, and still isn't, burned out to the same extent as I. Nonetheless, she is quite looking forward to the day when she can pack it all in. To her, medicine is a job; her identity is not wrapped up in being a doctor. Most days, she doesn't mind her job too much, but she would never say she loves it (although she does love getting paid a lot for what she considers a relatively easy specialty). If asked the age-old question of “What would you do if you won the lottery tomorrow?” she'd probably say, “Quit my job.”
Now, my turn. The idea of extending my career was tough to wrap my mind around, because it was hard to imagine the job getting that much better after cutting back. My brain just couldn't seem to process that working less might have a profound impact on my perception of work-life, and that I might appreciate greater career longevity. Which is funny, in retrospect, because my identity is wrapped up in being a physician, and I view medicine somewhere on the spectrum between “calling” and “job,” but closer to calling. So wouldn't I derive more personal satisfaction from continuing to be engaged in my calling for a longer period of time, if I could make the job more enjoyable? Not only that, but there's the practical consideration of a kid who has nine more years until graduation from high school, so it's not like we have the option of taking off for parts unknown for more than 1-2 weeks at a time during the school year. If I'm going to be in town, then it would be lovely to fulfill my mission of helping people while being well-compensated and happier.
Next, I'll address the idea of decreasing our projected yearly spend in retirement. Total nonstarter. As I've said before, we were fairly frugal for a very long time, – living like medical students for years – not upgrading to living like residents until several years after completion of our fellowships. For us, an important component of retirement will be reaping the benefit of all that saving done early in our careers, and this will lead to spending a bunch of money. Just like WCI has inflated his lifestyle to include a killer wakeboat and what seems like q.o.week canyoneering/mountaineering/camping excursions, we have become accustomed to frequent vacations at beautiful VRBO rental homes in exotic locales. Although we do much of our own cooking on vacation, we also enjoy dining out at (sometimes) expensive restaurants.
In retirement, we expect to travel even more frequently and for longer periods of time. While some of this will surely involve camping, which we love, I would guess that 80% of our yearly travel won't include sleeping under the stars or staying at hostels. For the past two years, our per-year spend has been just over 100k. Figuring in extra spending for more travel plus taxes, we'd like to have 150-200k/year in retirement. Physician on FIRE, who projects needing 1/3 that amount, just had a heart attack, folks. Does anyone in the room know CPR?
#3: Luck Is Not A Strategy
Around the time I was ruminating over some of these issues, a buyout of our group practice started to morph from a possibility into a reality. By late 2015, we were presented with an offer that, if consummated, would result in a high six-figure payout to each partner. As my wife and I were both partners, this was very good news. After months of mental constipation, I started to lay the groundwork for cutting back at work.
Astute readers may argue that I hadn't internalized any valuable lesson, seeing how it took the prospect of a massive infusion of cash (that we arguably didn't need to achieve our goals) to mobilize my cutback effort. I agree that I'd have a more credible claim to enlightenment if I had taken concrete steps prior to the buyout news. I like to think that I would have eventually gotten to the same place without the buyout, but I admit the possibility I wouldn't have. Hopefully, my thought process about cutting back and my experience with it since implementation will resonate with others on the fence, motivating you to take action more expeditiously. So luck is not a strategy, but it can motivate you to make the changes you should have made anyway.
#4: Cutting Back Changed My Life…And Ticked Off My Wife
Him: I'll attempt to present this as balanced of a way as I can, ceding editorial power to my better half so you can rest assured that both sides of the story are told fairly. To put this in context, yes, the buyout deal happened, leading to obliteration of our outstanding student loan and mortgage debt, as well as a very large infusion of cash into our investment portfolio. I had identified my greatest pain point at work, which was the last few hours of each day. Not only was I mentally drained by that point, but after work I had a long drive to get our child and get home. We would often beat my wife home, so I would start cooking dinner as well. The cumulative effect of doing this for years was wearing on me, and it got worse when my daughter was districted to a school that was even farther away.
After negotiating with my bosses, I was able to shave off the last couple of hours of office time each day. This addressed the mental exhaustion issue and allowed me to get out with enough time to pick my daughter up from our local bus stop, which is just a few minutes drive from home. I felt the effects of this change immediately. It was light outside when I got off work. I no longer felt beat up by the end of my day. Though I've always been good at making time for exercise, I could now exercise and do more stuff with my kid – it wasn't one or the other. We enrolled our daughter in more after-school activities, to which I could now drive her and watch. On hot days over the summer, we might go stand-up paddle boarding in the late afternoon. I would cook a nutritious meal which would be on the table the moment my wife walked in the door. Homework was done. Kid was happy. Dad was happy. Everything is awesome! #Winning, right?
Wrong. After a few months of this new schedule, I started to sense a subtle hostility emanating off my wife. It wasn't really overt, and I had no clue what was wrong, but I was certainly feeling under-valued and under-appreciated. In my clumsy, male way, I began to lobby for an “Atta boy!” from my wife, hoping that if I pointed out how great it was that I was taking care of our kid and home, she'd show me the love to which I'd become accustomed. Not only didn't that have the intended effect, but it led to our first “come to Jesus talk” about our new situation.
It turns out that I had completely misjudged the depth of my wife's feelings about this next phase of our lives. Our marriage had always been 50-50 in just about every way, splitting almost all responsibilities down the middle. This wasn't really a conscious choice; rather, it just kind of evolved that way. While I was aware of this balance, my wife expected this balance. I had naively assumed that picking up child and household duties would more than cover for her spending more time than me at the office. Apparently I was wrong. But the next part is what really shocked me. She was so jealous of my new schedule that, not only did she resent it, she felt that if anyone in this relationship should be enjoying a semi-retired lifestyle, it should be her!
Her: I'm not sure why this really “shocked” my husband. I was the one who always wanted to be a Mom (ask him if he even wanted children before I forced the issue!). I was the one who felt like medicine is merely a paycheck, not a “calling.” So of course I was bitter that he was the one to cut his hours, not me!
Some of the hostility was also fueled by times when I came home from a long day of work, saw the two of them looking all happy and relaxed, and then realizing after dinner that I still had to help with my daughter's homework. Hey, if you're going to cut your hours at work, then at least compensate by taking care of home-life! (To be fair, he has been doing a better job of this since we had our talk.)
Him: It pains me to say that, for the first time, I felt like a better person than my wife (if you knew her, you'd probably assume that she's nicer and more evolved than I – it's ok, everyone else does). If our situations were reversed and she had cut back at work, I knew that I would be unconditionally happy for her. After discussing this with a couple of my male friends, I was convinced that on the scale of rightness, I scored at least 99%. Then I discussed this with a couple of my female friends (both married doctors) and I gained some perspective. While acknowledging that it's not totally rational, my female friends counseled me that they don't really want to feel like they're doing the lion's share of “bringing home the bacon.” Without wading too deep into old gender-role stereotypes, they could see how my wife wanted to feel taken care of by her man, in a more traditional sense.
Her: This is true. When both of us worked full-time, I was making 25-30% more, which never really bothered me. But then he cut his hours, and that number went up another 5-10%. While his current salary is nothing to sneeze at, I view it as a big hit to our income.
Him: I still thought this was a little crazy – despite understanding my wife a bit better – given the facts. One: the hit to my income was small in the grand scheme of things, as my hours weren't cut as much as I had hoped. Two: we had just received a bolus of cash that had advanced our timeline to early retirement by several years. Three: we had previously discussed her cutting back at work and she had declined.
Number three led to further emotionally charged discussions, in which she now stated that the only way she could manage her jealousy was to finally cut back her schedule, so we'd be “even.” I urged her to do so, as it was clear that the health of our relationship required it. Plus, we were on track to practically retire at-will, regardless of whether her salary was 10%, 20%, or even 50% less. Well, time has passed and she hasn't made any changes to her schedule. She seems to have accepted our current situation for what it is, and she's now batting around the idea of retiring at the end of her contract with our new parent company, in two years. But, if she's still not that burned out, she may continue working, full or part time.
Why the change of heart? Various reasons. She's not that burned out. It's logistically difficult to cut back in her department. Fear of “getting off the train” and not being able to get back on, should circumstances require it. Wanting to feel like she pushed hard to the end so she can feel good about quitting cold turkey while I continue to work. Anyway, her jealousy is currently manageable and the marriage is solid.
Her: One more reason: fear of not having enough money in retirement, despite what he tells me.
#5: Working Less Makes me a Better Person
Working less has made me a more engaged physician, a better father/husband, and a more introspective person. Jeff left an inspirational comment on my original guest post that turned out to be unbelievably prescient, as it sums up almost exactly what's happened in my life:
“…let’s focus on the beauty of working part time…You get to live a better lifestyle TODAY…Work 3 days a week, or shorter hours, or see less patients. Take less call. Think of what you could do with that time! …Whatever you want!!! You’d have time to make dinner, maybe not every night but much more than you do now. Likely you would find work to be less offensive and perhaps you rediscover that enjoyable, rewarding aspect again…life is too tragically short to be overly conservative. Don’t keep putting off your happiness just so you can “guarantee” you’ll have enough in retirement. Lots of adjustments can be made along the way if needed. Start to enjoy the freedoms you’ve definitely earned TODAY!”
I touched on some of this earlier, but it goes deeper than just having more time at the end of the day. The downstream effects on my psyche from having this time have been myriad. I am happier to sit and chat with my patients, as I no longer feel like I have to ration my listening-energy to make it last all day. My fellow introverts know what I'm talking about – prolonged interpersonal engagement saps us of all available energy and empathy.
Things that used to rile me up at work still bother me, but usually not to the same extent. I wouldn't exactly say that I'm zen about all the nonsense in my organization, but I'm learning how to approach it more constructively.
One thing about this new life that has surprised me is my focus on self-improvement. Many years ago, before I had a real job and a family, I remember being philosophical and way more introspective. For at least the last decade, I've just been busy. I've gotten really, really good at checking stuff off my to-do list. Unfortunately, the stuff that made it to my list was just what had to get done for daily life. The rest of me has been on autopilot for a long time. What would happen if you did almost no routine maintenance on your car for ten years? Maybe a Toyota would still seem to be running pretty well, but once you looked under the hood, you'd find some parts were about to break. I'm that Toyota.
How I've gone about working on myself and changing the things I don't like would take at least one more blog post, and I'm not sure anyone but me would be interested. Suffice it to say that, if you're looking for personal improvement inspiration, I highly recommend subscribing to and combing through the archives of Tim Ferriss' podcast and listening to whatever catches your eye. The collective wisdom there is brain-expanding and cannot be overstated. If you're like my wife, however, and you just can't sit through a 2-hour interview for a mere few brilliant nuggets, pick up a copy of his latest book, Tools of Titans, which is a high-yield compilation of all the tactics, routines, and habits of world-class performers.
#6 Controlling Lifestyle Inflation Requires Constant Vigilance
Sure, we have enough assets to retire whenever we're ready. But not if our next ten years of spending follow the trajectory of the last ten, in which we've roughly doubled our yearly spend. There have been many great posts about this issue in the financial blogosphere, so I'll simply share what I've found to be useful for reining it in.
I now practice gratitude on a regular basis – a simple tool that helps me appreciate everything in my life. It also helps me couch things in terms of “I get to do this,” as opposed to “I have to do this.” I know it may sound like mental jiu-jitsu, but it does help shift perspective. The corollary to this is learning to want what you already have.
When evaluating a potential purchase or other outlay of money, if I find myself saying, “We can afford it,” I pause and reflect. As WCI likes to say, high-income physicians can have anything they want, but not everything they want. I was shopping for a new jacket the other day and found two choices at the mall: a leather one for $250 ($500 before my 50% off Banana Republic coupon) or a faux-leather one for less than half that. They looked equally nice, and I'm not enough of a leather connoisseur to feel the difference. Call me a troglodyte, but I bought the fake one.
#7 Other Things I Can Do With My Life
Having more time has allowed me to think about other things I can do with my life.
Until I came up for air, I hadn't thought much about what I'd do with the luxury of time. Now I'm working on launching a blog (in a genre unrelated to personal finance) of all things. If it turns into something substantial, I'll monetize it. The point is, I never would have had the inspiration nor bandwidth prior to creating more time in my schedule.
I have always enjoyed teaching, but having residents rotate through my private practice is challenging because productivity is valued over education. I've hosted them anyway, but it's exhausting to give them a great experience while still churning through patients and closing charts. With a shorter day, I handle it much better, which has reinvigorated my love of teaching. In early retirement, I can see myself volunteering to staff the fellows' clinic at our local academic institution.
I took on a couple of malpractice cases as an expert witness this year and learned that I have an aptitude for it. I enjoyed working with the attorneys and teaching them, simultaneously feeling good about aiding in the defense of doctors who didn't deserve to be sued. Oh, and the money was awesome.
If I can leave you with one message, it is: don't keep waiting for tomorrow to change your life – do it now.
What do you think? Have you considered working part-time? What thoughts have you had about life change as you approach financial independence? Comment below!
Great post. The Him/Her section was particularly unique and enlightening.
My wife and I are also both physicians and grappling with some of these same decisions. I like my job, my wife is lukewarm on hers at best, so we have decided she will go part-time after her maternity leave.
In the next 5 years, we will need to better nail down our expenses in anticipation of my going part-time or even fully retiring. I have already started to explore what post-work life will be for me; knowing myself, this will be the most important part of retirement satisfaction.
Great post. Also loved the his/her section. Interesting to hear the situation from two points of view.
FWIW. my perspective… You came into a windfall in the practice buyouts. Did you wait a year to process it, or just jump into the whole pay off all loans, recalculate life, and go part-time decision? Given that you weren’t willing to do it without the windfall amount, it seems like you based a life decision on money instead of basing a money decision on life. It sounds like your wife needed more time to process the situation. Now, my husband and I, also both physicians, have only ever worked part-time. It is awesome. I highly recommend it. But, it was a 100% mutual decision. I could see how she might feel that you abandoned a mutual plan and be resentful. I don’t see it as jealousy. Lose the attitude of thinking you deserve an “Atta Boy.” You rocked the relationship boat over money, so tend to the consequences. Spend as much time on relationship growth as personal growth.
Where were you when I needed you, Dr. Mom?! 😉
To clarify, I had been thinking about cutting back for quite some time prior to the buyout, and I had been discussing it with my wife as well. We were made aware of the terms of the buyout several months before I actually cut back, so there was time to process.
I don’t think my wife needed more time to process the situation. But, I do agree that she felt like I abandoned the plan to work “all out” until we could both pull the trigger on full retirement, simultaneously. FWIW, she WAS also super jealous.
Your advice to spend as much time on relationship growth as personal growth is obviously a darn good one.
Obviously all relationships are different, but I’m still confused as to why your wife didn’t want you to cut back. It didn’t seem like the money was a big factor and the “taken care of” reason seems odd since she was already making more. Almost seems like jealousy that your job allowed you to go part time and hers didn’t. In any case, I’m glad you figured it out; I imagine if you were forced to go back to FT it would have caused further animosity down the road.
That’s just it, CB. Her reasoning was not totally rational, so I didn’t really understand either. I think Dr. Mom got at the heart of it, though. I kind of abandoned our original plan to go all out and THEN retire fully. Even though the money didn’t matter, I guess the principle did. And yeah, she was jealous of my new hours and happiness.
Sometimes rational is in the eye of the beholder. It’s not about the money at all or even the principle. You abandoned a mutual plan for a solo plan. Reassure her and show her as much and as endlessly as needed that you are not abandoning her. Best wishes!
I love Dr. Mom, for she is wise.
Great post. I worry that our household will develop a similar type of resent if one of us cuts back on work hours. Although we’re still many years away from that number, human nature can always brew resentment. We don’t believe that it would happen to us, but you never know.
Great post. I liked the first one too. Does your wife truly understand your level of fi. Is she skeptical of all the calculators out there? Show her the data and run some numbers for her at different levels of part time income. It sounds like a baby step about taking a few hours less per day. Lots of people need structure and identity that a job provides
Thanks, Hatton1. My wife understands, on an intellectual level, that we could both quit tomorrow and be financially secure, forever (we have far surpassed our original target number). But, we have been in saving mode for so long, and we’ve never had to think about market corrections/crashes in the past, because we weren’t withdrawing anything from our accounts.
I think she has a deep discomfort with the concept of seeing our portfolio numbers drop as we spend it down. She is aware that it is also possible that our portfolio will increase in retirement, especially if we keep our spending at current levels (as opposed to increasing by another 50k/year). But the idea of spending our savings is something that is going to take a LONG time for her to get used to.
Now you know one reason why many retirees buy SPIAs-permission to spend.
Totally. And I suspect the conversation with my wife about purchasing a SPIA would go like this:
Me: Honey, maybe we should consider buying a SPIA in retirement, which would give us permission to spend X dollars per year. Then we wouldn’t need to stress so much about seeing the portfolio numbers going down.
Her: But couldn’t we amass an even larger portfolio by just leaving all of our money in our current mutual funds?
Me: Probably. But that’s not really the point [proceeds to explain the psychological benefit of a SPIA for us].
Her: But you’re saying that we might amass more money by leaving it all in mutual funds, right?
And around and around the mobius strip we go!
I think your last sentence gets to the heart of it for both men and women. Even if you aren’t tied to your paycheck, it feels good to have a community at work. A lot of people, including myself, get afraid they’re going to lose that to some extent if they cut down at work.
OP, thanks for the amazing post… it takes bravery to share that exchange with your wife but it was super instructive.
Your post resonated with me and my situation. I found in residency that I was unhappy (I think many residents feel that way), but the biggest hint for me was that I didn’t feel fulfillment in my life. I love the science of medicine, which is why I think I enjoyed medical school so much, but realized that I didn’t enjoy the practice of it. After my internship, I decided to resign from residency to do a dermatology clinical research fellowship where I was able to teach residents and medical students; doing research half of the time and seeing patients the other half of the time. This position allowed me a direct comparison between the education and medicine (which sometimes are quite similar to each other). It was easy for me to see that I love to teach, but most importantly, I feel that fulfillment after every day of teaching. I then made the difficult decision to leave medicine and work for about 1/4 of my future salary. Part of my happiness definitely stems from the fact that I am working normal hours and am not ever on call. I had the opportunity to go back home and teach at my alma matter, or teach at a new medical school 5 hours away and make twice as much. As my wife and I assessed the situation, we decided that the benefits largely outweighed the monetary and professional costs, so we took the job which pays less, is closer to our families, and provides me with much job satisfaction. Everything comes with a cost, but for us, it was worth it. We are significantly happier.
A great example of basing a money decision on life as opposed to basing a life decision on money, to quote Dr. Mom above. Good for you and your wife.
I appreciate the honesty of this post. Very good read for someone beginning the medical journey to gain some perspective about “late career” physicians. Would you mind mentioning what specialties you and your wife are in? I am assuming you are both partners in a multispecialty practice?
Were you two aggressively saving for early retirement since the day you finished fellowship or were you both just savers and it happened to put you in that position?
We are in a multispecialty practice, but I’d prefer not to mention our specialties for identification reasons. Our full-time gross salary (combined) had been in the 500-600k’s, if that’s helpful.
As far as saving, we’re just naturally savers. Check out Part I of Super Saving… if you would like more details about that.
Fair enough. I am happy you are in a position to be able to slow down and have found fulfillment in your work again! Wanting to spend 150k/ yr in retirement after earning 500-600k for your working life seems like something you have certainly earned. One can only “live like a resident” for so long.
Oh, I really, really wish I knew your specialties!
Thank you for the candid and informative update from both of your perspectives. It’s a shame you’ve faced issues of resentment and discord while sitting in such an enviable position, at least financially. I’m glad to hear you’ve both got a better understanding of what each other’s issues are / were. And it sounds like this path of self discovery has led to some really positive changes in your life and practice.
I guess I’ve been on a similar path of learning more about myself and what makes me tick since discovering I / we are financially independent (albeit on one income and 1/2 to 1/3 your planned spending). There are so many things I would like to do more, and since I’ve started to explore these ideas and write about them, I’ve actually found I have even less time for all those things!
But… I love this other thing that I’m doing with the website and all the related activity, and I will be reducing my clinical workload to 0.6 FTE this fall to have more time to do everything else. On the job / calling spectrum, I would lean pretty heavily towards job. I like what I do just fine, but without a paycheck, I wouldn’t be interested in carrying the pager.
Thanks again for the update and I hope to hear another in a year or two. Best of luck with your blog and other future endeavors.
Cheers!
-PoF
Thanks, PoF, especially for your advice as I was in the final stages of launching my blog. Surprisingly, the blog has taken off and gained more readership than I expected at this stage of the game.
I’m happy to hear it, M!
Continuing to grow the blog and reach more people will provide you with purpose and fulmillment of any internal obligation to continue helping people that you most likely have.
Keep up the good work!
-PoF
*fulfillment
A spiritual outlook for a White Coat MD !
The real reality of a human ( including any professional ) is to realize that ultimately all planning for Happiness is illusory since the body is inbuilt with Old age, disease & eventual departure, Death !
The reality is I am not a ( White ) coat but the consciousness which pervades the body which is a material coat destined invariably to wear out like any other physical body.
So, where & how do I achieve the real spiritual ( eternal blissful life full of complete cognizance )?
Recommended reading : SRIMAD BHAGAVAD GITA As It Is, ( A C BHAKTIVEDANTA).
Thanks,
The self within the White Coat.
Great post,
I think what is really interesting is the reasoning why to retire. It seems like burnout was a big reason for you to cut back. As a young physician (3 yrs out of residency) with a wife physician (2yrs out) we do not have a feeling of burnout, but more uncertainty of what the future of healthcare holds. We strive to be FI ASAP, because we love our town where we live and do not want to relocate. There is a massive presence of conglomerate healthcare system moving in, could really pose a threat to our physician independence. The landscape of healthcare in our town seemingly is changing overnight. I consider FI as self insurance to this changing landscape, especially if we do not want to go along with it. I know our skills are valuable, but would hate the thought of having to move or have an extended commute.
Smart. Being FI obviously opens up doors that you may find very attractive in another 5-10 years.
Part time work is an amazing thing. When I started on this journey I was thinking FIRE all the way. Get out in 10 years (46 years old or so). The more I work though, I am thinking part time work. I can stay at 60%, earn over 200K, and be considered full time (free health insurance and a generous 401k match). That would lead to 4 half days a week and 1 full day in my ideal world (not 3 full days as some would do it). Call would remain the same but if I cut back maybe we could hire another doc and take 7 instead of 10 weeks of call.
So all in all part time work sounds good to me.
I like that this post highlights both the human and financial factors in getting to financial independence. Looking at your net worth from your 2015 post and adding in your windfall, recent contributions and market returns, you look like you’ve reached your goal!
I’m curious what specialty each spouse is in as it seems to be relevant to their thoughts about going part time.
You are correct, Amphora. We’ve surpassed our goal, so at this point, work is optional. Well, at least until our contract is up.
Thanks for sharing this candid look into your life. It takes courage to be vulnerable. Your prior post was awesome too. This reminded me to re-read that and I’m glad I did. I love your writing style and your humility. You have achieved a lot and deserve a more enjoyable life. I’m looking into various options of cutting back my clinical practice. I used to be shooting for FIRE. Now that I’m FI, I think part-time (semi-retirement) would be better for me. Keep writing!
Thanks so much for the sentiment, WealthyDoc. I am still amazed at how nixing a couple of hours at the end of the day could increase my happiness so much. A true example of a log-linear relationship!
This post resonated with me. I had all these feelings and it was a lot like my story of coming to grips with giving up medicine for good. It is a tough decision, even after you have all the money you need.
Today I went by the surgery center I used to work in. I found out one person died unexpectedly yesterday and another was found to have terminal cancer. It made me understand the brevity of my life. My decision to repurpose my life, leave medicine to write books and teach physicians personal finance, was reinforced. I want to do a lot of things before it’s my death they are talking about.
My new repurposed career allows me much more flexibility in my activities. Why am I retired but still working you might ask? It’s because even though I no longer needed to earn an income, I still needed a purpose. I enjoy my new purpose more.
This month my new book, “The Doctors Guide to Smart Career Alternatives and Retirement,” should be available. This book is designed for the doctor who is ready to give up on medicine. It details my journey through this process and walks you through three options; improve your current practice, move to a new career better suited to your current feelings, or full retirement.
I would give a resounding second to the advice this article started with; if you are unhappy with your career, make a change now. Life is too short to go on unhappy with your work. You deserve to wake up and look forward to the day’s activities. Go for it!
And that’s what it’s all about – enjoying and being fulfilled by your purpose in life.
What is your new career? Can you please post the link to order your book when it comes out. Thanks so much!
For those looking for details on the author’s finances, go back to his first post. If I were the author, I would have been retired a while ago. His net worth must be easily north of 4 million by now with the buyout, stock market gains in the past 2 yrs and dual physician incomes still rolling in (ok, 20% less due to the cut back).
If your wife wants to cut back, she should TOTALLY cut back. At a 4% withdrawal rate you can have a yearly income of $160,000/yr with a paid of mortgage and no other debt? That sounds pretty good to me.
I think this gets a bit into the poverty mindset that we never start feeling like we have enough. Especially when you have saved so hard for so long. The Bogleheads website is replete with people with 10 mil in assets still feeling like they don’t have enough.
My wife absolutely has that “poverty mindset.” We used to think 5 million was our finish line, and after reaching that, we’d check out. Now we are north of 6, and she’s still worried that it’s not enough. I think she is slowly coming around to the idea that we truly are “set,” but like I said in a comment above, it’s hard to switch from saving mode to spending mode.
Most importantly, congratulations on your success. I am divorced so take what I have to say with a grain of salt (though I will note I am happily remarried) but sometimes both partners in a marriage need to be figuratively beaten in the head with a large stick when we’re being foolish. This happens to me all of the time, since I keep forgetting to take the trash out on the right day. But in this case, I think your wife might just need to snap out of it if she thinks over $6 million in your nest egg isn’t enough to the point she’s afraid to cut back at work. In fact, it’s bordering on absurd. You have been fantastically successful. Go do what you both want to do.
Honestly, this is tragic, and I really think she needs to seek help for her resentment of your cutback on hours. There is no reason she can’t quit, and no reason she can’t cut back. This issue, while understandable and common, has the potential to destroy a lot of your happiness, and even your relationship.
Seek help.
I totally agree. Now that the debt is gone, and given what I estimate the total value of assets to be (>4 million), it is time to start living the life you want to live NOW.
I understand it may be difficult for some clinicians like your wife to arrange a part-time gig. If the Mrs. is jealous and resentful of you working less, she should stop now because she is not happy.
Even if you both stop working, as the above poster noted, your 4% withdrawal rate is in the 150,000-200,000 range you hope for. You will PROBABLY be just fine for the rest of your life. However, if only one of you is working just part time, Im guessing your salary will probably still be six figures. This takes care of most of your spending needs, and a couple years of this will allow your nest egg to grow to the point that you can have a 3% withdrawal rate, even if you are not “contributing” much to your accounts.
The point is, many people HAVE to work. You (or your wife) don’t. The only thing that would keep me working my current job once I meet your financial status is if I look forward to what I’m doing when I wake up each morning. You are in a precious position few achieve at your age–you have the ability to choose whatever makes you happy and do that each day (within reason) without fear of financial consequences.
Consider this little exercise–would you switch places in life today with Warren Buffett?? Probably not. All the money in the world would not make me voluntarily accept a position where I had few years of life left. You have time on your side, young kids, and each year of life is worth a lot-the time to be happy is NOW
M,
I loved reading your two posts and the comments from everyone along the way.
Retirement calculators have come to feel like a necessary evil to me. They often tend to create a self-imposed imaginary finish line (replacing the real boss with a virtual one) while making it easy to ignore the reality that stuff happens no matter what you plan. I’ve been regrettably growing a list of friends and acquaintances who have unexpectedly died before age 50 (I’m about to turn 50 myself this month) over the past few years. All of them active, healthy, enthusiastic people who drew a bad card completely out of the blue. Multiple car accidents, stroke, cardiac arrest, unknown causes. Even a freak ice skating incident that left our friend in a coma before he passed away a few days later.
These are statistically highly unlikely events, but they do constantly remind me there isn’t any finish line. There never was one. When did living become a race to some unknown destination for so many people? There’s only today and possibly tomorrow.
One of the reasons my wife does P/T homeschooling with our two young girls is the luxury of taking extended vacations without worrying about class schedules. Perhaps that’s something you could look into (along with online virtual schools, local tutors, self-paced classes, etc.) that would allow your family to enjoy lengthy family trips without worrying about missing school days along the way.
Check out this dude. Definitely not everybody’s dream, but he’s got a admirable philosophy on his own life.
https://www.theatlantic.com/video/index/374880/living-alone-on-a-sailboat/
Thanks, Chris. You are so right; there is no finish line. It has taken me way longer than it should have to figure that out. Then again, it’s easy for me to say that in my current position, so I’m clearly not as wise as I’d like to think.
The homeschooling thing is interesting, and we discussed it for exactly the reasons you state. And then we came to our senses and realized neither one of us has the patience for that. I am in awe of anyone who can do it, seriously.
Vagabond MD has mentioned the three out of five fellowship mates that didn’t make it to 50. Statisitically unlikely, but we all know numerous examples of those who met an early unfortunate demise.
Regarding the kids, you’re absolutely right. We’ve got two boys in public elementary school. With my part time schedule, we should be able to escape for a few weeks at a time. We met with the principal and were given free reign to explore the world for a few weeks each trimester as long as we remain in communication somehow (maybe weekly e-mail or Skype), are able to keep up with the schoolwork, and perhaps have the boys report on their adventures in a presentation afterwards.
Really, it will be great for their education to get out into the world as compared to staying home and maybe going to Orlando or a resort in Mexico once a year. Don’t assume that you’re locked into the school schedule. I thought there would be rigid truancy rules, but our experience shows that’s not necessarily the case.
Best,
-PoF
We’re REALLY familiar with the truancy rules. The rules and their enforcement vary highly from one school/district to another. Even more bending is possible when the kids are doing well and the parents are volunteering in the school. But it is still going to be a limitation for most of us. But that still leaves all summer, lots of three day weekends, Spring and Fall Break, Thanksgiving and Christmas etc. Add in 10 more days (add 2 or 3 onto all those other breaks) or whatever the school allows, and you can do a lot of traveling with kids before you get into trouble.
We are off two weeks of Christmas & New Year, one week of spring break, two weeks in June, two weeks in August, and one week of thanksgiving. That’s eight weeks without children missing any day in school. And sometimes I take an extra week off just to relax.
The trouble in many groups and practices is that all the docs with school aged kids want to be off at the same time. You end up taking turns having spring break or Christmas break off. Regarding holidays, I have to work Christmas, Thanksgiving, New Years, etc… on a rotating basis.
I haven’t gone a year without working multiple holidays since I started rotations in med school. I realize not every job or group is like that, but that’s been my personal experience.
Same here. It’s best to hire single Jewish and Muslim doctors. Different holidays and no kids to worry about.
Sorry, not true. This Muslim still has to try to be off on Christmas and Easter when possible because I married a Christian. However like PoF and others, we have a rotating schedule each year to be off certain holidays.
My favorite holiday is actually Thanksgiving — I enjoy it as much or more than Eid-al-Fitr (holiday at end of Ramadan).
One of my residency faculty members is Jewish. He worked every Christmas morning for decades.
Great post! I love to see the benefits others realize from part time work. It’s amazing!! With regard to#4 . . . I think this will vary by person. For me, I prefer to be the partner working less because I love doing kid and home stuff. I like playing and taking care of the kids, baking and cooking and keeping the house in excellent running order. I know not everyone enjoys this or is good at this. I still make more than my husband but I don’t care about that. I look at all the money brought home as both of ours and I’ve never wanted to be financially dependent on anyone anyway so the idea of being financially taken care of by my husband isn’t on my radar. The real reason I wouldn’t want him home more than me is that I’d expect him to take care of everything I take care of when I’m at home and to the same degree. And he could never do this. He has many talents but keeping house is not one of them. I’d come home to a house that looked like a tornado hit it every day and I would be unreasonably unhappy and resentful and things would fall apart for us. Luckily, we have a pretty good balance and routine and everyone is happy. I’m glad you and your wife were able to figure out something that works for your family!
Preach! I work normal M-F hours and my husband is an EM physician, so he keeps the kids home on his weekdays that he’s off. I love that he spends his days off with them, and usually has dinner ready when I come home from work. Awesome, right? Yes, but, the house looks like – as you said – a tornado hit. When I get home from work I go on a cleaning bender as well a scavenger hunt for all of the kids’ stuff that is nowhere near their usual spots.
I knew before we got married that housekeeping is not his forte, so I’m never surprised. We both currently work full time, so this isn’t an every day thing. But if he were working significantly less than me and I still came home to a disaster, momma would not be happy.
Funny how roles are different in different relationships. I’m the one cracking the whip on the kids to pick up their clutter in our house and do the dishes. So if I’m on a long string of shifts (especially evenings), it’s pretty easy to see.
Amazing how clean the house stays when the kids are gone. Run the dishwasher once a week. Clean once a month. It’s tough keeping a house picked up with growing kids. I think the quote goes like this:
Were you neat and organized before being in the military? I forget that straight men can be because the ones I’ve lived with (my husband and my father) are the opposite.
I doubt anyone would call me neat and organized now, but my threshold to pick up the house is usually hit before anyone else’s in the family.
M,
This post is fantastic and I thoroughly enjoyed reading it. It is a great dive into the complexities of gender rolls, part-time work, fear and scarcity mindset, gratitude, etc. I can certainly relate to many of the things you describe, especially how much of a difference cutting back has made in my life. Wonderful insights.
Maybe I missed it, but I did not see a link to your blog. Oh, and thanks for the shout out 🙂
People keep mentioning a blog. Is there a blog I don’t know about? As near as I can tell, I’m the only one who knows who this writer is here, and this writer doesn’t blog.
He does, but there are details on the blog that he doesn’t want associated with his guest posts here on WCI (and / or vice versa).
Correct, PoF. I have a non-financial blog that I’m not looking to cross-pollenate here on WCI. I’d be happy to share the link with anyone interested if you direct message me through the WCI Forum (I think that’s possible?). I think anyone in the medical field will get a laugh from my blog, so you should definitely message me for the link, but I’m totally biased.
M, I would love to read your blog, but am having trouble finding you on the forum. (And if you search the directory for “M”, it brings up everything with an M in the name, status, etc.) Is it possible to give us a link to you on the forum?
Your wife and I could be best friends. 😉 As a dual physician family, I would feel the same as she does about your situation. I also have her “poverty mindset” despite reaching financial independence a few years ago. “Prepare for the worst case scenario” has always served me well in life achievement, but will be my ruin in terms of my FIRE desire.
She will SO appreciate the commiseration.
The op stated at 1134 mst that Pof helped him get his blog started and the readership is increasing. No name was mentioned for the blog.
I must have missed it. I’m sure I asked when I accepted the post as I always do. Not sure if he told me then and I forgot or if he didn’t mention it.
I never mentioned my blog to you, Jim, so don’t feel bad. Although I mentioned in this post that I was starting a blog (which is now several months old), I did not want to cross-pollenate here, nor did I want you to think I was writing this to self-promote – not that there’s anything wrong with writing guest posts to self-promote; I’ve done that for my blog. But that wasn’t my motivation here; I’m just trying to contribute something to the community that’s helped me so much.
M,
Your post is so close to home for me. We are currently about 80% of the way there for FI. That is 80% to a pretty decent and slightly luxury filled lifestyle. Despite that if we were 120-150% of our current FI number, we would have no problem finding where to spend that money. Currently with just contributions and no growth we will hit 100% in about 2 years which lends to the discussion of potentially going part time today. Even if we don’t add a single dollar to investments by working part time it is likely that in the next 15 years we would likely be well over 150%. The thing is, My wife (not a physician) still needs 1.5 more years to fulfill her contract. Therefor, I struggle going part time while my wife can’t. What good is all that free time if we can’t share it together?
We decided just a few months ago that I will continue working full time for 1.5 more years and let our nest egg grow. In the meantime we will increase our spending on items that make our home life easier. Hiring out cleaning services, car and yard maintenance, and first class flights when we travel overseas so that we arrive well rested and get to enjoy more of our days there, (frequent flier miles offset a large part of the cost) etc.
The reality is that we do like our work especially when we have plenty of time off in between. I also know myself and think that if I retired I would simply rot away due to sloth. I have come to realize having some structure in the week is actually pretty helpful. So working part time till we are in our 50s maybe even 60s sounds like a distinct possibility. I think we can have plenty of wonderful freedom filled days only working 6-8 days a month and so far I don’t mind waiting another 1.5 years to get there.
Thanks for your post and I would love to see an update from you in another 18-24 months
You make some great points, EnjoyIt. Setting “positive constraints” that give the day structure seems to be a good thing for you, me, and lots of other Type A professionals.
It also makes a lot of sense to use some of that “extra” money to pay for things that buy you time, happiness, or both. My wife and I have discussed the issue of first-class (or even business class) international flights, as I cannot sleep on a plane unless I’m horizontal. But unless we can defray the cost with FF miles, the price tag just makes us gulp, and we haven’t been able to force ourselves to pull the trigger.
Your life plan sounds like it will work well for you guys, so congrats on that.
M how old are you now? My wife does not work, but when I tell her I want to go partime some day in next 10-15 years she sort of look at me funny. Anyway our expenses right now are pretty high, so more work for me.
I’m 44. I hope that helps you make your case with your wife!
This was such an inspiring post! My husband and I have the same income, same savings rate, and our projections look like we’ll hit your numbers at the exact same age (44). Thanks for helping us see that we’re on the right path! It also inspired me to consider working a bit longer because that additional $100k per year could lead to some really interesting charitable opportunities.
Preface: 1) My job wears me out and I would be happy to retire right now if I had $6 million. 2) I’d also be happy if my wife was a high-income physician who wanted to work, whatever the motivation.
With that written, it makes me happy to bring home the bacon so that my wife can enjoy her life. She has busted her tail since childhood, and this is a great gift I can give her. It is the most rewarding aspect of my work, by far. I don’t think that I could put up with my work schedule if it was all just for me.
I love that you put this in your post:
“While acknowledging that it’s not totally rational, my female friends counseled me that they don’t really want to feel like they’re doing the lion’s share of “bringing home the bacon.” Without wading too deep into old gender-role stereotypes, they could see how my wife wanted to feel taken care of by her man, in a more traditional sense.”
It’s great because it is soooooooo politically incorrect. 🙂
I wonder if I feel great about supporting my wife, but your wife resented you for just cutting back because we have both absorbed subliminal cultural messages throughout our lives.
I was ultra focused on work as a means to an end. However, I had a realization that if I just simplify things and look at work as something fun you do during the day while you are on a big rock (earth) flying through the vastness of space it puts things in perspective. I was recently down in Peru for a dental mission trip and trips like that humbles you and provides perspective. If these people can be happy with so much less then happiness is a choice. So choose to be happy regardless of what life throws at you!
What a great article. The part about how your marital relationship changed when you cut back was especially illuminating. It takes a lot of courage to candidly discuss marital stress in front of strangers on the internet. My wife and I are working through similar issues where she has more desire to cut back than I do, but I have more ability to actually do it without walking away completely. Lots of food for thought.
Thanks for recognizing the courage aspect of my post, Pulmdoc. It’s easier to be courageous when I can hide behind a username, though. Nonetheless, my wife was still concerned about how her role in all this would be perceived by readers: “They’re going to think I’m crazy, aren’t they? I hope they don’t beat up on me too badly.”