[Editor's Note: The following guest post was submitted by a doc that would like to remain anonymous. We have no financial relationship. I hesitated to run it, just because I am such a fan of traditional marriage no matter its financial costs, but decided in the end that I get enough questions like “Should we avoid marriage because of this financial advantage or that financial advantage?” that it was an important enough subject to feature here. ]
Socially But Not Legally Married
Several months ago, I had the most wonderful day of my life. I stood on an altar, in front of all of my family and friends, and said my vows to the woman who that day became my wife. We promised to spend the rest of our lives together, through thick and thin, in front of everyone meaningful to us. We had a beautiful outdoor ceremony, then spent the whole night dancing, drinking, and partying with everyone in the world who was important to us. There was one relative who was notably absent from the ceremony, however. Our good old Uncle Sam was not invited.
Marriage and its Penalty
My wife and I met early in the first year of medical school, and quickly knew that what we had was special. We lived together through most of medical school, and when the realities of the match and the possibility of being launched across the country from each other appeared in fourth year, we made the decision to get engaged. We wanted to prove to each other, to our loved ones, and to everyone critically evaluating us as a “couple's match” that we were dead serious about the meaning of our relationship and our desire to be together. It was the right move at that moment in our lives. In the ensuing months, as I started to do some research and wedding planning, I came across the unfortunate reality that, from a financial perspective, legal marriage is a total bust for a two physician couple. The two main drivers behind this were the way that REPAYE is structured, and the marriage tax penalty. In this post, I'll explore both of those financial disincentives, and how we came to the decision together to get socially married but not to sign the legal marriage paperwork.
How the REPAYE Interest Subsidy Works
The first driver, and the one that probably had a greater effect on our decision, is the REPAYE federal student loan repayment program. This is the newest student loan program that has been offered by the Department of Education since 2015, designed to expand the benefits of the PAYE program to many more borrowers. Anyone with federal direct, Stafford, Grad PLUS, or federal consolidation loans are eligible for this program. Your monthly payment is set at 10% of your discretionary income (adjusted gross income minus 150% of the federal poverty line in your state for your family size). The payments count towards public service loan forgiveness (PSLF).
There are two big differences between PAYE and REPAYE that affected our decision to get married. The first is the REPAYE interest subsidy (only available with REPAYE). The federal government will subsidize 50% the difference between your monthly payment and the amount of interest that your loans are accruing. For example, someone like me with a $215,000 consolidation loan at 5.4% that is accruing $967 in interest per month (!!!), has a calculated monthly payment of $111 (My first 6 months of salary as an intern was $33k, and your payment is based on your previous year's tax return – make sure to submit a tax return as a 4th year student to take advantage of several months of $0 payments!). The difference between the interest I accrue is $967-$111 = $856. So, for being on the REPAYE program, the federal government will contribute 50% of that difference to my monthly payment, so I get $856/2 = $428 in free payments towards my loans every month. This makes my effective interest rate on my loans this year 3%. Next year when my payments get calculated on a full year's salary, my monthly payment will be about $391, making my subsidy $967-$391 = $576 / 2 = $288 free dollars for an effective rate of 3.8%. This is huge and basically turns my loans into almost free money for the duration of residency while I have this subsidy (given inflation).
Thousands More in Subsidy Dollars Available If I'm NOT Married
Difference number 2, and the reason why all of the above is important, is that REPAYE is the only student loan program that also takes into account your spouse's income when calculating your monthly payment. The determination of married is based on your federal tax filing status, and both “married filing together” and “married filing separately” count as married for the purposes of REPAYE. So, if I were federally married this year my monthly payment would be $351 instead of $111 (remember it's not exactly linear because it's 10% of AGI minus 150% of federal poverty line), and next year my payment would be $880 (or $933 depending on if filing jointly or separately) per month! Ouch. So not only would I have less money in my pocket from the higher monthly payments, but the free government money that is going towards my loans would also essentially disappear. And I'm the only one with federal loans! If we both had federal loans, the impact of this would double because we'd both have to pay this! Over the course of my 5 year residency, this would equate to several thousands of dollars in lost income, lost compound interest (both positive in retirement accounts and negative in increased loan burden), and lost quality of life from having a tighter budget.
Marriage Tax Penalty
When I initially wrote this article (and when we made our decision to not file legal paperwork), the second half of the post focused on the effects of the marriage tax penalty. This has been written about ad nauseam around the internet, but to touch on it briefly, the federal tax income brackets were structured such that dual-income households above a certain income threshold wind up paying significantly more in taxes. This affects both “married filing separately” and “married filing jointly” households. Previously, this was enormous, and for a two physician household could easily be on the order of $10-25k extra in taxes per year. With the new tax law, as of 2018 this has actually been largely eradicated. Since most physicians will fall into the 35% bracket for income between $200k-500k, you don’t get pushed up into the 37% bracket until your combined taxable income is $600k or more, and even then it’s only 2% more on dollars earned above $600k. Likely just a few grand at most unless you are a really high earning physician couple.
“Married”, But Not Missing Out on Free Student Loan Money
Just to be clear, nothing about the above changes the fact my wife and I are truly married. We both wear a ring every day to remind ourselves of the commitment we made and the love we share. Our relationship is the most important thing in the world to us. We live together, we share everything. To everyone that knows us, we are husband and wife. Nothing about our federal income tax filing status changes that. The only people who know about this situation besides the two of us is our respective parents, who were understandably hesitant at first, but once we broke down the numbers for them they understood our decision. It was hard for us when we made the realization too, but it is even harder for us on a resident salary to justify missing out on thousands of dollars per year worth of free money towards my loans.
We got married at a time that was socially and emotionally right for us, and we weren't about to let some loan program fine print get in the way of what we wanted. And of course, this is far from the only thing we're doing to keep our personal finances in check – we rent in a cheaper than average apartment that's walking distance from our hospital, we don't own a car and just use Uber/Lyft or Zipcar (an on-demand car share service) to get around a few times a month that we actually need it (car payment + insurance + maintenance + gas + parking would be hundreds of dollars more per month than we spend on hopping in a car and being driven around), we hold off on luxury purchases as much as possible (my obsession with researching the sustainability, quality, and longevity of everything I buy helps slow down impulse purchasing), we cook when we can, and with all of this together we're managing to put away about 30% of our take-home income towards retirement savings as PGY2 residents in a high cost of living area.
The Future of Our Marriage Status
Of course, marriage is not just a tax bracket. There are legal, social, and emotional aspects to being officially married. We are acutely aware of this and are still working on the best solution to it, which is part of my inspiration to writing this post as I would like to ask WCI readers what their suggested solutions are! So far, we have 3 possibilities:
- Hire a lawyer to write up a contract that would basically give us as many of the legal protections of marriage as possible – this of course costs time and money
- Get a civil union or domestic partnership in one of the states that still allow them (many states did away with them when marriage equality became federal law a few years back), which gets legally recognized in the state that we reside in as a marriage. We'd then be legally married at the state level but not the federal level.
- Is a new one now that the marriage tax penalty is basically gone – just wait until after residency to get legally married. All the loan benefits (since we’ll be really aggressive with loans and wouldn’t qualify for the interest assistance on REPAYE anyway), and just a few years of putting off the legal benefits.
For now, I think we’ll just stick to option 3, and enjoy our wonderful new marriage with a little bit less financial stress during residency!
What advice do you have for this young doc? Do you think he made the best decision? Why or why not? Comment below!
#3 seems the most reasonable to me given all the $ factors. Good on you with being so intentional with every single financial decision big and small.
This is a tough one.
Marriage without a license? If my employer promised to pay me hundreds of thousands of dollars, but didn’t provide a contract to me, would that be the same? Would I trust their promise as much? I’m not sure. There is something to be said about a binding commitment that would be incredibly painful to leave that seems to matter. In the end, if things got bad in your relationship, it would be like walking away from an engagement. Painful? Yes. The same as legal marriage? I am not sure.
Yes, you are saving $5,000 per year. Assuming you are in a 5 year residency, it’ll probably save you closer to $30,000 during training. That said, you decided to go the non-traditional route to save $30K. To each their own on that one.
Also, you didn’t state whether you’d be pursuing PSLF (in which case all of this savings wouldn’t matter) or not. What’s your end goal plan?
And to answer your question, just do number 3. Get married. Call it official. There are benefits to filing jointly, too.
There’s my controversial comment for a controversial post 🙂
TPP
Are you paying for separate health insurance policies (my wife got free healthcare while I was a resident). I ask only because you should be comprehensive in your financial assessment.
My emotional/religious side tends to support going all the way with marriage if children are in the picture. I’m pretty sure there are some legal benefits as well.
Nice job marriage hacking your student loans. Great idea for some. REPAYEs marriage penalty is a real bummer.
By going through with all the pomp and ceremony you did get married. You entered into a social contract in front of all your friends and family. Having a piece of paper doesn’t change much in terms of how you and others view your relationship especially since everyone will assume you are legally married. You’ve publicly committed to each other. This isn’t quite like an extended engagement since the commitment was made.
Being legally married doesn’t have to add any more stability to a relationship especially if you are set OK it a divorce seems pretty easy to come by.
On the flip side I can see how this might complicated life if there are kids.
Kuddos to you for thinking a little differently! Good luck!
I guess I understand the logic here. Personally, I try not to let money be the driver for my major life decisions or changes. I would rather find an investment to produce enough income to cover the “loss” caused by the marriage, but I would still get married.
But -marriage issue aside- this is a clear and brief summary of the many benefits of the REPAYE option.
I have to say that was thinking out of the box. Even though you made a social commitment in front of friends and family there is a risk to both involved until you do officially get married (if you choose that option). In the eyes of the law you are not married so both can walk away a lot easier as there is no binding legal contract. And as mentioned by others, if there are kids it would complicate things more
I’m going to disagree with the above kudos and high fives and the entire premise of your post.
I am not an attorney, but I would constitute your hack and hiding your marriage from the government for reasons of financial gain as either legal fraud, and at least moral fraud. As a physician we are expected to be morally sound and held a much higher standard than other professions. I don’t for one minute think the student loan business or what the government has taken me for with ridiculous interest is fair, but that does not give me the moral ground to to set a horrible example for my spouse, family, kids, and friends-certainly not publicly posting about it on a prominent financial website.
I think you should seriously look internally, and those of you providing the kudos and high fives should as well, at your moral compass.
Have to agree with this. Some govt agency might decide to crack down on illegitimate nonmarriages in the way they crack down on fake marriages someday, especially if someone’s out to get you, or just ‘greedy doctors’ as a tough on rich people political ploy. Guess I’d shack up and tell people we’re committed but not claim ‘we’re really married except federally’. If my religion or culture frowned strongly on living together I believe I’d pay the extra taxes.
That said I’m old school so suggest you sacrifice the gain if you reproduce- silly I know but might count against your kid with some people to their loss, even if the such people are bigoted and wrong, and I guess there’s no risk your kid will miss out on being the Queen of England due to legal ‘illegitimacy’.
In med school friends claimed marriage to get an apartment in our traditional Italian community. They carefully married one year after their claimed marriage, telling their old Italian landlady the celebration was of their 1 year anniversary.
And me? I had to get married. He was pregnant. No, the Army wouldn’t believe we wanted to stay together and assign us together if we didn’t marry. 27 years so far; just launched the last child.
He was pregnant? Reminds me of Thomas Beatie. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Beatie
Fraud is a very strong word. The laws/rules and regulations are pretty clearly stated. He/She is clearly not married at a federal level. Appropriately filing taxes and paying what is necessary is spelled out in black and white.
I am no lawyer either, but suggesting this is legal fraud is probably a major over step.
Now, morally you may have an argument. I disagree with you that this is morally wrong, but I can at least agree that the poor moral argument could be made.
As noted in another comment, I think if a state calls them common law married they’re federally married. Feds may never find out, but the divorce court would agree if it ever came to that.
“Fraud” is a pretty strong word for something that is completely legal and would be considered immoral only by the most nanny of the nanny bunch. This is more akin to taking full advantage of the mortgage interest deduction on your taxes.
“Illegitimate non-marriages”??? Are you seriously proposing that two people who commit to each other should be required to be legally married?
These arguments are such non sequiturs that they fall under the “not even wrong” umbrella. They’re just… not even arguments.
Just to clarify-there is no penalty if both of you have loans. Your total couple/family payments ends up being 10% minus the AGI adjustment. It isn’t doubled. It works just like IBR-basically each person’s payment is adjusted and is proportional to that individuals share of the entire household federal loan burden.
I believe it is only when one spouse has loans AND both work that you don’t get the full benefit of REPAYE and get hit with the penalty.
Still, for the author, as a two physician couple, it will be plenty easy to pay off those loans.
I too believe this is correct. I also was recently torn with a financial decision and the implication of legal marriage on student loans. Although my dilemma was doing PAYE vs REPAYE. Considering I just started residency and my spouse will start next year, our total debt burden will be roughly 600k (mine 350 and her 250). As far as my understanding goes, when married filing jointly (required by REPAYE) the loan repayments will be calculated by total household AGI but distributed proportionately to our respective loans. Not sure how the “impact will be doubled.” Unless I am missing something and calculated incorrectly. In which case, would love somebody to expand on this!
Oh and long term plan for us is to switch to PAYE prior to graduating residency to get the aforementioned subsidy.
One thing to keep in mind is your interest will capitalize any time you change repayment programs.
I was in IBR before REPAYE came out, but I did the math and with two more years of residency left, the REPAYE subsidy more than made up for the additional interest accrued via capitalization. The lower monthly payment was great too. It’s been a great decision, and my wife and I made so little (relatively speaking) over the past two years that our effective federal loan interest rate is essentially halved.
I can confirm your suspicions from direct experience. My wife and I both have federal loans in REPAYE and our combined payments are 10% of our household AGI. Hope this helps your decision @AR.
My husband and I were in this dilemma when we decided to marry in 2017. Initially, he wanted to do the same as the OP to save at least a stack of society in addition to the hefty taxes that we already paid. However, I’ve always had a traditional view of marriage and didn’t agree to it. There are certain things that I would not let money dictate my decisions. We know several friends that do this. The money saved allow them to take their family on lavish vacations each year. To each their own. I’m ok with being legally married and relying on travel hacking for vacations. Yes, it hurt when Uncle Sam came calling but I love being legally married. Besides, common law marriage is not recognized where we live.
Tons of military couples do the reverse of this (get the license but not do the social/religious ceremony until much later) in order to ensure the civilian spouse has access to benefits. I usually hear about it when one is going to deploy before the “actual wedding” is planned, just in case the worst happens. Had never considered the backwards option.
Just a thought, some states acknowledge “common law” marriages. Not a lawyer, but it strikes me that you pretty well meet the definition of “holding yourself out to be married” so if you spend significant time in one of those states your plan may not actually be getting you anything/you may be legally married even without the license. And if that suddenly applies in one state, it counts in all the states since a marriage is a marriage and they all grant reciprocity across state lines.
Not that I think Uncle Sam or the banks are going to waste the resources to realize what you’re doing and send the marriage police to your door anyway… though I’m enough of a traditionalist to chime in with the various people suggesting you ought to just do it. If nothing else, are you willing to be consistent in your behavior if something terrible happens? One of you gets sick, do you have documents establishing that you want to be each other’s decision-makers? Or wills to establish inheriting from each other? After all, you aren’t legally married, docs legally shouldn’t let you make decisions unless there’s paperwork…the courts definitely won’t. Or are you already on each other’s bank accounts which even more clearly establishes the legal relationship/makes this seem less ethical. Have to take both the good and the bad.
When reading this article I was thinking about the chances of it becoming a “common law” marriage as well. I think most states are moving in the direction of not legally recognizing common law marriages, although I can see it being an issue if the worst happens (i.e. death or divorce, I’m not really sure which is worse).
Hard for me to fully understand- as a mostly military doc couple and liberal our tax burden has never been that onerous to me- but my best friend, a corporate wife, complains bitterly of the marital tax as the underemployed wife. An RN, she figured working and paying her husband’s high tax rate on her first dollar earned, PLUS SS, made her RN work a charitable endeavor. Only did it when she still wanted to maintain her credentials. Hey, she’ll recoup it when they get SS (if they’re not too rich for it when they reach that age if it becomes income indexed) by getting 150% his higher benefit based on, pretty much, their total family income whereas our SS payment will be based on about 50% of our total family income. Despite paying it on most of our income throughout life.
Thanks for a thoughtful post. It’s encouraging to see someone consider the multifaceted decision to marry.
But your logic begs the question – on what foundation does marriage rest? Is it a purely societal construct? A legal arrangement? A divine gift? Do we as human beings have the liberty to massage marriage into a relationship suited to our circumstances, or is it a promise we make in spite of circumstances, “for better or worse, until death do us part”?
In putting finances before covenant, is the tail wagging the dog?
You can probably tell where I come down, but ultimately your answers to the above questions will dictate what course to take with the legal status of your relationship.
Just wanted to sound off that at least one other non-marriage guy follows this blog and participates in the forum. Thanks for the post.
I’m confused as to how this works as I’m still in school.
I am going to get married early 4th year to a teacher with no student loans that will be making around 60k/yr.
I will have about 200k in loans, I figured I would try to make as big of payments during residency as possible to at least cover the interest so the principle doesn’t grow. Is this a dumb or naive plan? Seems like no one is doing this…
Are we guarenteed not to get the repaye subsidy if we are married?
Your spouse’s income reduces the amount of subsidy that you get to enjoy, but their income is low enough that it doesn’t eliminate the subsidy entirely. You can calculate this on studentloans dot gov if you want exact numbers
If I had brought this up to my wife before we were married, I think she might have turned down both proposals.
No. But at a certain ratio of loans to income it goes away. The less you have in debt and the more you have in income, the less your subsidy.
As to your first question about whether or not to pay your loans aggressively in residency, depends on whether you plan to go for pslf or not. If you plan to go for pslf you are better off paying the minimum so you can get the most forgiven at the end of your ten years in loan purgatory. If not, you may still want to pay the minimum and save the difference if you think you can get a better return during residency or pay aggressively depending on your interest rate. I think there’s an article somewhere in the archives of this website explaining this scenario and the multitude of ways to “skin the cat.” Congrats on your impending nuptials!
“my obsession with researching the sustainability, quality, and longevity of everything I buy helps slow down impulse purchasing”
What resources do you have to help with this research?
If you lived in a community property state and were trying to go for PSLF, then you could get married legally, file separately, and in some cases be better off than if you had gotten married because of how community property states split the income on federal tax returns.
Also if you’re concerned about the subsidy because your plan is to refinance eventually, then I personally would’ve just refinanced it as a resident instead with the plan to refi again as an attending.
If you don’t live in a community property state and you want to go for PSLF, then this strategy can make some sense. There are some loopholes though that most aren’t aware of to minimize taxes in situations like this. Another one is simply delaying when you turn your marriage certificate. For example, January 2020 mail in will have your spouse’s income taken into account when you certify in 2021.
I hate to break it to you, but there is no “marriage penalty” for REPAYE when you are both docs (edit: new residents) with loans.
From the Education Debt Manager 2018, page 27:
“REPAYE—Loan servicers will always determine your monthly payment (and your spouse’s) based on joint income and debt; however, the amount that each spouse owes their servicer is proportionate to how much of the total debt is theirs. Here is an example provided by the Department of Education: if the calculated REPAYE payment amount for you and your spouse (based on your joint income) is $200, and you owe 60% of your combined loan debt and your spouse owes 40%, your individual REPAYE payment would be $120, and your spouse’s individual REPAYE payment would be $80. So, when a married couple is told how much the household owes, it does not mean that each spouse owes that amount but rather that each spouse owes a proportionate amount of the payment to their servicer(s).”
The only “marriage penalty” (if you want to call it that) with REPAYE is if your spouse is a high earner, e.g., not a medical resident.
I’m not sure this is true since his wife has no federal loans, so I believe he will be penalized since her debt is private and she is not eligible for REPAYE. But in the majority of two physician couples that are in residency together (and both parties have federal loans eligible for REPAYE), you are correct – this entire post is kind of misleading.
So sorry to be the grammar police again, but this is killing me:
Marriage and it’s Penalty
should be
Marriage and its Penalty
Thanks for the correction!
The fact that you want this post to be anonymous speaks volumes about how you feel about this decision. If there are people that you don’t want to find out what you are doing, that is a red flag.
The amount of money you are saving is miniscule when looking at the big picture of your financial life.
Once you start compromising your values for money, it’s a slippery slope. What else will you compromise to gain a buck? It gets easier each time. Can you later turn tricks and say it’s not about your relationship, it’s only about the money?
Pretending to be married is not the same as being married. It is not the same level of commitment. Don’t kid yourself on that.
I wonder if the money issue is just a smoke screen for one of the partners who is lacking the needed commitment for this union. If you can’t make a commitment, you can always claim you are just doing this for the money, and camouflage the commitment issue.
This sounds like the argument to get paid in cash so you don’t have to pay taxes. If the government can’t see your income “on paper” then you don’t have to pay the taxes because they will never know.
Beware of slippery slopes.
+1 to all of this.
Equating turning tricks to playing by the rules of a gov’t program is a bit of a stretch, no? Safe to say they posted anonymously to avoid having conversations in real life with people that will put forth the same absurd arguments you just did.
For someone as smart as you to perpetuate the absurdity that a piece of paper from the gov’t somehow makes a relationship more likely to be successful over the long term is ridiculous, as evidenced by divorce rates nationwide.
Churn to achieve credit card rewards? Careful, that’s a slippery slope, next thing you know you’ll be running a drug cartel.
Thanks for the laugh.
There must be a market for an entrepreneurial attorney to put together a “fill in the blanks” packet of documents that provides many of the legal benefits of marriage without the financial impact of same. At one point recently I calculated the tax cost of my marriage to be ~$30,000 per year (neither of us doctors, but both high earners).
This post reminded me of a common practice of a religious group in our area. A couple will marry in their religious institution but not legally, and go on to have several children. The wife is usually a stay at home mom, so in the eyes of the government she and her children get Medicaid and other state welfare benefits. The husband is usually a businessman or in the diamond business, with a large home in a beach community, far from the modest city dwelling of the wife and children (on paper). Years ago the local government began cracking down on this practice, but only made examples of the most egregious offenders, but it is still common. Is this very different than what is being described in this post? Probably not. Misrepresenting your social situation to the government to receive benefits – the common thread
The more I re-read this, the more problems I find. Per option 3, the author states that they’re paying down the loans aggressively. If that was the plan, why even bother with REPAYE at all? The whole point of REPAYE is the subsidy. Why not refinance? Also, the assertion that the subsidy “turns my loans into almost free money” is a reductive and misleading way of thinking.
Everyone in the comments seems really concerned about the status of the author’s relationship, but I’m more concerned that a heap of bad advice somehow made it through the editing process.
Do you not understand that the subsidy helps even if you plan to pay the loans off? The subsidy effectively lowers your interest rate.
I took the author’s wording to mean aggressive payment starting now, which I guess was not his intention, in which case of course I agree. Though I still think his understanding of the “marriage penalty” is flawed.
In what way do you think it is flawed? Are you arguing that REPAYE payments are NOT higher (accompanied by a lower subsidy and if PSLF is obtained, less forgiveness) for an indebted doc married to another earner than if he were single? Because that is simply wrong.
A good chunk of this blog and many other financial websites is dedicated to minimizing tax burden. We employ so many tricks and tools, find loopholes, arrange assets, create separate companies/trusts all with the mindset of lowering taxes. The richest people and biggest corporations pay groups of smart people a lot of money to find clever ways to reduce taxes.
I’m surprised people all of a sudden take a moral stance against this ONE tax avoidance solution. There are surely other tactics that should make us pause a bit more than this one.
They didn’t have to get married at all… could have avoided it altogether. But they wanted to prove commitment before family (and God?). This doesn’t seem like moral failure to me. Would it have been better to hold off on getting married until after residency, and run the risk of matching in different cities? Or if in the same city, still live together but not married?
Also, for people asking why he posted anonymously, it’s because some are also claiming his moral ineptitude. He is still a resident with attendings and a future employer to impress. I’m sure he doesn’t want his name closely associated with this type of chatter.
You don’t have to be married to couples match.
You have every right to your privacy.
You have every right to take advantage of benefits that you legally have a right to obtain.
1)Do you have a lease or checking account or introduce yourself as Mr and Mrs Xxxxxxx?
2)Has she changed her name on any documents?
3)Have you or her listed a spouse on any forms?
4) What are the benefits for getting “legally married?
5) An online will would accomplish leaving worldly possessions.
Cohabitation does not preclude a life long commitment nor family nor legal advantages.
Actually, it serves as liabilities the same as an LLC.
Separate legal entities. Free to come and go as you please.
Actually Doctor , you could have gotten a marriage license and had the minister sign it. There, you are married in the eyes of God. Don’t mail it in.
Legally, it is not recorded in the county and the state has no records.
The only real monetary benefits are property rights in the event of death or divorce.
From both your views, filing the piece of paper wasn’t worth interest on a student loan. What money will you save in the future by filing it?
If your content for 5 years, why not 25 years or 50 years?
It’s a social convention you chose to ignore, you are perfectly within you rights. What changes socially after residency? So you’re older. Right?
The fact that you shared this story anonymously indicates that you know what you did was wrong.
You lied to all the people you invited to your faux wedding. You essentially defrauded every guest who attended of their time spent at your faux celebration and of the value of any gift they gave you. And yeah, people might have had a good time at the faux wedding, but only because they thought they were celebrating a marriage. If you couldn’t be upfront with your family and closest friends, it is probably because you knew they would not be interested in attending your faux wedding.
And people will find out. Both sets of parents know as well as officiant of the ceremony (because you never gave him/her a marriage license to sign). There is no way 5 people can keep a secret. At least one of them will tell a friend. That friend will, in turn, tell a friend. And pretty soon everyone knows. Maybe your closest friends will understand. But some people will be ticked. And those people will most likely be the ones in low paying jobs who would love to have the “problem” of having to pay more in student loan interest for job training that puts them at the upper end of the income ladder.
What you did indicates a lack of respect for people in your life. And you know this. Otherwise, you would have attached your name to your post and been upfront with your guests about what you were doing.
MOM,
I appreciate what you are saying, but unless I missed something, I don’t recall reading a part where the OP and spouse hid their federal marriage status. Without getting into any further divisive definitions of marriage, it’s safe to say that some people value their commitment made in front of their family, friends, and religious figure(s) more than the government.
And I never buy the “oh you’re anonymous so you know you’re wrong” speech. Maybe some people just value their privacy. It’s not like the guy posted a threat or anything inflammatory.
The author of the post is pretty clear that they didn’t tell anyone other than the couple’s parents that they were not getting legally married. By omission, the couple misrepresented what their wedding ceremony was to their guests. To be fair to the guests, everyone should have known what they were doing and then been able to decide for themselves whether it was something they wanted to attend. I personally would have no interest in spending a day at a faux wedding (which would cost us at least $100 for a sitter) or send a gift for a non-event.
And my point about the anonymous nature of the post is not that it “proves” the author was wrong, but rather it indicates he knows he did something that his guests would not have necessarily want to have participated in. Sorry that I wasn’t more clear about that.
Sorry if I skimmed past it while reading during lunch. I guess my view is “to each their own”. I’ve been to a couple of non-traditional ceremonies that may not have fully aligned with my own personal beliefs, but it came down to caring about my friends and their happiness.
I appreciate the out of the box approach. It made an interesting read and comment thread that I imagine will continue to grow.
1)Marriage has a legal status under state law and it is different in all 50 states.
2)Socially and religiously it has a status as well and that is different in the various forms as well.
The custom in the US is #1 is the normal marriage. Like getting married in the courthouse. It counts for better or worse.
It is not unusual to include both. Sometimes at great expense.
You have to admit, there is a little deception going on since the witnesses at the wedding would have assumed they were getting legally married. There is no requirements that the two are performed in order or together. For whatever reasons, they choose to keep it secret. I know couples that did the same, but it wasn’t secret and wasn’t for budgetary reasons.
That is unusual. Too each his own, but the secrecy was deceptive by omission. Why the secrecy is the curiosity.
^^^^^ Dr. Mom’s comment all day long. What invitee wants to attend a semi-commitment event?
Not me and don’t agree with Mom. Do agree with WWillke’s point that maybe they should have researched this issue better before their decision.
Mom, just out of curiosity, would you also feel personally offended and shortchanged if you attended an “official” legal wedding that later led to divorce due to issues that the wedding guests weren’t aware of?
False equivalency. Marriages end. It is the risk you take when you marry. But if the couple only intended to stay married for a couple of years to reap some government benefit and then get divorced, yeah, I’d feel defrauded if I attended the wedding and didn’t know.
There used to be a marriage “benefit” as opposed to penalty for couples where only one spouse works (ie. Let’s get hitched so I can save on taxes!”)
Would you do this? Of course (hope) not!
So why would you do the reverse?
As someone who was legally denied the right to marry for years, I can’t really relate to using some cumbersome contract to try to outsmart Uncle Sam when I have the legal right to get married.
Ultimately if something unfortunate should happen I would think one would regret not making it “official”.
The benefit comes when you marry someone not earning. The penalty comes when you marry another earner.