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[Editor's Note: This is a guest post from Othala Fehu, an attorney who writes a “Net Worth Blog” outlining the growth of his net worth and is enjoying his law career despite not going to a Top 14 law school. We have no financial relationship.]
I wanted to write a post about my take on the whole ‘Should I go to Law School?’ and if so ‘Where Should I Go?’ dilemma. I kept seeing articles about The Top 14 Ranked Law Schools and how competitive the market is for starting salaries above $100k. So What? I get that it is way sexier to read about a 25-year old making $150,000 right out of law school and hitting a million by age 30. Fun read, but not really plausible for most of us lawyer types.
I wanted to explore the larger more mundane path to law school and its more probable outcomes. Unfortunately, law school became a sort of default option for anybody who was kinda smart and not really sure what to do with their life. I went to law school in 1997 and this was certainly the case for me. I moved to a big city and went to a middle of the road law school.
Back when I went to law school, $20,000 a year was typical tuition for a private school. It was easy to break into six figures of debt because you were strongly encouraged to also live off loans for at least the first year.
According to U.S. News & World Reports 2017 law school rankings, the average cost of tuition and fees among the top 10 law schools is $60,293 per year. For private schools, it’s $46,164. For public schools, it’s $26,264 in state and $39,612 out of state.
Law as a Career
Yikes! I always tell people who want to go to law school, you must weigh these numbers in any rational decision-making process. If you are trying to go to law school to get rich, this is not your best bet. Finance has been the way to go for the last few decades. A law degree will get you clout, but not as much as it used to bring.
The real payout for a law degree is the possibility of a healthy upper-middle-class lifestyle where you get to use your brain. Maybe you do some good for a client or your community. You also get to meet and rub elbows with a more stimulating level of coworker/adversary. And plenty of lawyers still get rich even with the inevitable Bourgeoisie Creep.
Law School Debt
Law school debt is really just a problem of law school debt management. You account for the loan payments as an extra mortgage that does not come with any accompanying house. Live below your means and stack chips. $85,000 a year is still Baller money in the big picture.
So if you aren’t really ‘Top 14 material’, does that mean you should give up?
Not at all. It would be great to sit back on campus and wait for the big firms to come and recruit you for being special, but that just is not how it works for the majority of J.D.s.
Three Giant Things to Consider in Landing a Job After Law School
1. Jobs after law school have a lot to do with who you know.
While it is tangentially correct that going to a top law school will put you on the radar of ‘the right people’, it is not necessary. The people who could eventually lead you to a job are everywhere. They might be packed in tighter right outside of a better school in a big city, but that is just the deepest end of the pool.
My wife and I both directly got our first law jobs because of people we met, not grades or resumes or job fairs. My wife interviewed with someone who turns out was an alumni from her same undergraduate; boom got the job. I got hooked up with an unpaid internship with my future employer by a sympathetic law school professor.
Talent, personality, hard work, timing, and luck could each end up getting you where you want.
2. Most law jobs are local in nature.
Yes, there are international firms with a lobby in every port, but that is the exception. US News & World Report has to apply some rational filter to produce a list of the top 100 law schools. They have to organize around consistent criteria. But most law school reputations are built locally and they apply locally.
A mid-level law school in Chicago has way more alumni and connections looking out for its own student’s interest IN CHICAGO then some Ivy League school half a continent away.
3. Law school reputation benefit is limited
Your law school’s name may help you get your foot in the door for your first job, but after that, you are judged on whether or not you’re any good at being a lawyer. You can keep reminding people you went to Cornell, but if you can’t perform it eventually shows.
The converse is also true. Who cares that you went to Dr. Nick’s Upstairs School of Law if you are sharp, personable, and killing it in court. Success in the law is way more about what kind of lawyer you are then where you went to school.
Dealing With the Lawyer Factory
The real cautionary tale is that there are way too many lawyers already and they don’t ever retire. Old lawyers just seem to take fewer cases each year until they die. New lawyers are too hungry, like crabs in a barrel, vying to see who can take less money for the same services.
Take, for instance, Cooley Law School In Michigan (and Florida apparently). No less than four campuses, pumping out multiple batches of sub-par lawyers every year. Their theory was that they would give unorthodox students a shot at law school. Bad idea. They had years with 50% bar passage rates.
Law school admissions have been down for several years now and the law school factories seemed to have cooled their jets somewhat. In fact, according to the American Bar Association, law school enrollment fell 28% from 2010 to 2014 (60,400 vs. 43,500). Nevertheless, it is likely it will still take some time to adjust and re-calibrate the ideal lawyer saturation point.
I don’t think law school should be a default option. That being said, I like being a lawyer and am happy with the life my middle of the road law school has helped me achieve.
The ability to formulate the question, analyze the data and come to a final conclusion in light of the facts about whether or not to go to law school is a great problem for you to tackle with your freshly minted lawyer brain right after you graduate from an accredited law school.
What do you think? Does law school make financial sense? What about if you don't get into a Top 14 school? Does that change the equation? Why or why not? Comment below!
To quote, or maybe paraphrase, Stanley and Danko, “There is not a shortage of law school graduates, there is a shortage of good lawyers”
I followed the pretty typical path of a good law student. Not a T14 school, but ended up going to a T25 school with a half-scholarship. Top grades. Law review. Biglaw summer associate. Then bounced around from biglaw to government gig.
Earlier this year, I ended up switching career paths, grabbing a non-traditional legal position that someone with my credentials definitely isn’t supposed to do. So far, I’m way happier.
The thing about law is just how hard it is to know whether being a lawyer is something you like. I know that’s something I didn’t consider enough when I went to law school (2013 JD as a point of comparison if people are wondering).
I recently switched gears as well. I went from practicing to being on the other side of the bench. I like it way better. I think that lawyer brain is a good operating system for life, I am just not sure lawyer jobs are good for your health.
I also didn’t follow the path above – I went to an inexpensive T50 school with a scholarship, graduated in the top 10%/law review and no debt. I had a job offer at several different top firms on both coasts, and put in my time at one of them before moving on to greener pastures in my early 30s with a 7-figure networth. I’m content with the path I took as I’m in a good place now and I enjoyed law school, but I still advise friends and relatives not to go to law school as the time I spent in big law was just miserable.
Send me an email! Your story is quite possibly the fastest wealth accumulation story I’ve heard from a lawyer. Would love to know more.
No student loan debt (cheap school, scholarship, a small amount of help from parents that amounted to less than $20k total for all 3 years), start working during the recession when real estate and stocks are super cheap and on their way up, max out retirement accounts and invest some in a taxable account, buy a house during the recession, then buy another rental property during the recession (high cap rate, which was easy to get back then), then move on to a more satisfying job, but always continue to max out retirement accounts and watch the mortgages go down and the real estate values go up.
Very enjoyable read. Congrats on your law career! I agree that it seems most post-graduate school jobs in law and medicine are so much more about who you know rather than where you went to school. Perhaps I have ivy league envy but I do think that the value in “top” schools come largely in their undergraduate degrees which give a competitive advantage when applying to graduate or professional school spots. That being said, I went to the equivalent of a community college for undergrad and still was able to get into a solid Big 10 med school and pursue a competitive residency after.
At some point it always becomes a question of what you bring to the table and not where you brought it from.
The biggest challenge I’m facing is deprogramming my kids from thinking they need to go to a top X school. That view hasn’t come from us, and I’m sure its come from school and their peers’ parents. Its starting to sink in and my son mused the other day that he doesn’t want to be $200k in debt.
There is so much to discuss on this subject. Thanks
I think much of that pressure to go to the best schools comes from a theoretical view of a future career and not a practical real world view. You career trajectory has more to do with your competency and people skills than with your degree.
I have lawyers in the family. I do not encourage the next generation (kids, nephews, nieces) to become lawyers though. The lawyer jobs are so varied with a very wide range of job satisfaction and/or pay scale.
The only happy lawyers in my family are those that after 10 years finally landed in an easy job with less responsibility but not financial independence.
I either see the idealist who loves the “law” and practices as a low level prosecutor or defendant. I also see the unhappy 100+ hr corporate billing lawyer type. Now 10 years later, the idealists are still broke and unhappy. The corporate lawyer works higher on the ladder and sleep in. Not necessarily richer nor happier, but more time.
Growing up, the smart kids became doctors or lawyers. Finance and business were for the “greedy,” not the respectable academic types.
It’s interesting to red the perspective of other lawyers. The family did go to the local state law schools as opposed to the ivy leagues. I have always wondered if the Ivy League alums had a different experience.
Thanks for the blog article
I have a canned speech for all my relatives that think they want to go to law school, it is 65% / 35% against.
I for one became the happiest when I moved into a legal job that meant never having to try a case again. Wow what a relief. I am glad I first earned my sack of war stories to carry around, they are great for parties.
Nice insight into the world of law school. I have a couple of good friends who are lawyers and this is along the lines of what I’m hearing. Going to a big school helps, but after a few years it really is your reputation that sets the stage.
This is a much more moderate tone than the “scamblogs”, though I guess they’re theoretically bashing the law schools themselves rather than the profession as a whole.
Some of those “I hate my law school’ blogs are hilarious and some of those law schools deserve it.
I don’t think most of the physicians and surgeons on this blog really appreciate just how bimodal the salaries are for graduates just out of law school. Big Law Investor had a good article on this, but some of my wife’s dentist friends had no idea that law school career paths had become this bifurcated. See http://www.biglawinvestor.com/bimodal-salary-distribution-curve/
Even among those strivers who graduated from top 14 law schools or graduated in the top 10% of top 50 law schools, the prize for starting as as Big Law associate isn’t that great.
Plumbers and Electricians generally don’t lose sight of the benefits of a good hourly wage. Young law associates making $140-165K often are making pretty lousy hourly wages. Sure, the old days of residency with more than 80 hours per week were brutal, but that’s just for the duration of training. This is a pie eating contest where the prize is more pie.
That’s the nail on the head right there and the reason why no one should ever talk about “medicine and law” as somehow related, high compensation things that the smart kids can do with their lives.
If you go to the worst med school in america and struggle your way through a primary care residency that is on probation, 3 years after you get your MD you can command $100k without a second thought. Likely much more than that depending on where you want to be.
These young lawyers that are making $150k are often BILLING 60 hours a week which means they are working 80-100. Heck if you go work in an immediate care for 60 hours a week as an FP you’re going to be making twice that if not more.
I know 2 people well who are partners in big firms. They both have superior people skills in addition to intelligence and they both still work like dogs. Way harder than just about any doc I know.
Thanks for the post, Othala Fehu (and for the great WCI for featuring it!)!. Like medicine, it makes sense if at the end of the road, you love what you do. There are so many challenges, struggles, victories, humbling experiences along the way that you need to have that inner desire/love of what you do to make it worth it!
I keep coming back to the part where you ‘get’ to work in a stimulating environment with worthy adversaries. Feeling like you are being challenged is important to a fully engaged brain.
Good, interesting post on WCI.
Only a few of my buddies went to a top 14 school. Two landed biglaw jobs, both pooped out after a year or so.
The rest of us went to the rest of the schools, and almost all have found employment. Excepting the ones who chose the path of public service, the guys who work harder tend to make more money and the ones who don’t make less.
Law school makes financial sense for those who want to fly a desk, make a decent living, and particularly for those who chose a cheap law school to begin with.
Interesting to see similar negative commentary about law as a profession as my wife has at times about being a doctor. Lawyers like Doctors can specialize to your strengths/passions. My neighbor who is a lawyer calls himself ‘a one-trick pony’; he is a criminal defense lawyer. Was out enjoying a beverage with him a year or so ago, gets a new client call. After he came back to the table; asked him about the estimated time put into the case versus the fee charged. The per hour rate was north of $700/hour.
Wow. Good for him.
I wrote the following to my younger cousin (a college student considering law school) back in 2010 when I was several years into practicing law after graduating from the top school in my state: I think the biggest misconception people have is that practicing law is only about being stubborn, aggressive, and argumentative. The people who think that generally do not actually practice the law nor have any firsthand knowledge about it whatsoever. You do not have to be the smartest, the most eloquent, or even the most experienced lawyer to be successful at litigation. The key to success at practicing law is in many ways the key to life in general: managing expectations. You have to manage your expectations as a law student. People who are used to being at the top of their class in high scool and college very likely won’t be in law school. If you can swallow your ego and accept that you won’t be a straight “A” student for the first time in your life, you will understand that getting actual legal experience through a clinic, local firm, or doing pro bono work, can be far more important on your resume than a 4.0 to potential employers. Consequently, if you pass the Bar Exam mandated for your respective state, you have to manage your expectations as a new associate. Not everyone will get a six figure job at a prestigious private practice that offers perks like signing bonuses, plush offices, and luxurious vacations to its employees. Many recent law graduates will end up at smaller no-name firms for moderate pay or working for the government as prosecutors or public defenders for lower than median salaries. In fact, with the amount of law schools becoming certified in the last ten years or so, a decent amount of law students will be lucky to be employed at all considering how much competition there wil be for the shrinking amount of jobs in the legal market. Once you’ve managed to get employed, you have to manage the expectations of your clients. Depending on what area of the law you work in, you may have clients that are extremely savvy, experienced in the legal process, and have no emotional investment in the outcome of the case. However, many times you will end up with clients that are completely ignorant, have never been involved in a lawsuit, and are extremely upset about the litigation. Regardless, of whether it’s a bank representative or a convicted felon, part of your role as their advocate is to make sure they understand exactly what’s going on with their case, what their options are to resolve the issue at hand, and suggest to them the best course of action. Ultimately, the client has to make the final decision and live with the repercussions, for better or worse. Despite popular belief, a legal career should never be a back-up career plan. It typically requires a lot of sleepless nights, long-term planning, and a personality that’s decisive and can rise to the challenge under pressure. As long as you properly manage expectations, then you have a good chance at becoming a respected lawyer.
Great post, Othala. I’ll share a few of my observations, having graduated from a good and respected, but not “Top 14”, law school in New York City, where I have been practicing law for over twenty years.
1. If one’s goal is to be a part of “big law”, i.e., joining a prestigious, large law firm in (usually) a city like New York or DC, then choice of law school is critical. It is far easier to get “a foot in the door” of such a firm being in the lower 1/3 of one’s class at Harvard or Columbia Law than even the top 20% of one’s class at a 2nd Tier law school. The quality of the education might be equivalent, but the opportunities are much more limited even for a graduate in the top 20% of a 2nd Tier law school.
2. While working in “big law”, it must be noted that quality of life will definitely suffer, but the return is a high paycheck. Life is a often a series of a trade-offs. In this case, the trade-off is basically living and breathing law, many late nights, unavailability for relationships, family events, etc., in return for a substantially large paycheck. To the extent that one has educational loans to pay back, of course they will be paid back sooner when one is making a lot of money. One observation: many young lawyers at “big law” make a lot of money, but less freedom to enjoy the money. In addition, many people think that the sacrifices are early (“I’ll put in my dues for the first few years”), but this is a misconception because the dues continue. It takes 8+ years to make partner in “big law”. Young partners do not suddenly attain more freedoms. Partners work incredibly hard, as they did as associates, and now many have the added burden of obtaining or sustaining paying clients. Moreover, at many firms, there is buy-in for the partnership interests, often in the form of a loan from the firm. Making partner does not necessarily mean new freedom, or a lifestyle change from the difficulties of being an associate attorney.
3. Geographic considerations are important. A person graduating from law school and working in New York City, for example, paying exorbitant rents as well as paying back loans, has to make a very large salary to afford the costs of NYC. That means working at a large firm paying a large salary. That means graduating from a top law school. That means that someone graduating from mid-tier law school, working at a small or mid-size law firm, simply will not be able to afford living in NYC (or San Francisco, etc.).
4. “What do you want to do after getting your law degree?” is an important consideration. The above difficulties and issues would apply to someone who wants to climb his or her way to “big law” partnership.
For others, they just want the education. From there, they might want to go into government, work in-house for a business, start a business, work abroad, develop real estate, get another degree, or try their luck in Hollywood. I’ve seen all of these progressions (and many others) after law school. (Some have gone on to medical school!) Law school does not only produce lawyers working at law firms. For many people, law school is only a stepping stone to other career or business paths, providing a great education and skills toward that other path.
I really appreciate you emphasizing point # 2.