In celebration of the completion of the medical academic year (yes, it's true that the first week of July is a terrible time to get sick), I thought I'd post a little self-assessment survey for graduating residents to rate themselves on financially. As you might imagine, this survey has never been validated and I pretty much just made the whole thing up. Nevertheless, I think readers may find it useful to see how they compare to their peers. Add up your points and see how you did! Better yet, print it out and pass it around to your students and residents!
1) What is your net worth?
- 0 points: < – $400K or I don't know how to calculate it
- 1 point: -$200K to -$400K
- 2 points: -$100K to -$200K
- 3 points: $0 to -$100K
- 4 points: $1 to $100K
- 5 points: >$100K
2) What is your starting salary as an attending?
- 0 points: I'm going to be a fellow
- 1 point: I have a military commitment
- 2 points: <$200K
- 3 points: <$200-300K
- 4 points: <$300-400K
- 5 points: >$400K
3) What is your student loan burden?
- 0 points: >$400K
- 1 point: $300K-400K
- 2 points: $200K-300K
- 3 points $100K-200K
- 4 points: $1-100K
- 5 points: No student loans
Gold Level Scholarship Sponsor
Add 2 points if you expect to qualify for PSLF in less than 5 years, 1 point if you expect to qualify in more than one year. Add 1 point also if you have refinanced your student loans to less than 5% fixed or 3% variable. Maximum of 5 points.
4) What is your non-student loan, non-mortgage burden? (credit cards, car loans, personal loans etc)
- 0 points: >50K
- 1 point: $30K-50K
- 2 points: $20K-30K
- 3 points: $10K-20K
- 4 points: $1-10K
- 5 points: $0
5) What is your living situation?
- 0 points: I'm underwater on a home
- 3 points: I'm renting or can walk away from a home with $0
- 4 points: I have a small amount of home equity
- 5 points: I have more than $100K in home equity!
6) What is your partner's situation?
- 2 points: Partner will not be working
- 3 point: Partner will be working part time or no partner
- 4 points: Partner will be working full-time
- 5 points: Partner is also a high-income professional working full-time
Subtract one point if partner owes less than $100K in student loans, two points if more.
Gold Level Scholarship Sponsor
7) How did you do with Roth IRAs during residency?
- 0 points: I didn't put any money toward retirement in residency
- 1 point: I invested only in a tax-deferred account
- 3 points: I started a Roth IRA
- 4 points: I maxed out a personal, and if applicable, a spousal Roth IRA, at least one year of residency.
- 5 points: I maxed out a personal and if applicable, a spousal Roth IRA every year of residency
8) How is your financial knowledge?
- 0 points: Who is The White Coat Investor? Someone just handed me this survey
- 1 point: I have read 10+ posts on the site or a financial book
- 2 points: I have read 50+ posts on the site or two financial books
- 3 points: I have read three or more financial books or I have read most of the posts on the site
- 4 points: I know what brand WCI's bike is or he has accused me of stalking him
- 5 points: I write guest posts for WCI
9) What is your plan?
- 0 points: I have no plan
- 1 point: I'm going to try to get my loans paid off in 10 years or so
- 2 points: I plan to contribute to my retirement accounts this year
- 3 points: I have met with a real financial planner
- 4 points: I have a written financial plan for my first year(s) out of residency
- 5 points: I plan to live like a resident for 2-5 years after residency, be free of student loans in less than 5 years, and max out every retirement account available to me.
10) What is the overall average expense ratio of your portfolio including advisory fees?
- 0 points: I don't know or I don't have a portfolio
- 1 point: >2% per year
- 2 points: 1%-2% per year
- 3 points: 0.5%-1% per year
- 4 points: < 0.5% per year
- 5 points: < 0.25% per year
Gold Level Scholarship Sponsor
Add up all your points, and then compare yourself to your peers in the comments section!
- 0 points: Welcome to the site! This is going to be a very high yield experience for you.
- 1-5 points: You're in terrible financial shape. Basically the equivalent of a blood pressure of 60/40. Do something about it now.
- 6-10 points: Could be worse. I suggest a plan to live like a resident for 5 full years.
- 11-15 points: You'll need to spend significant time in the next few months beefing up your knowledge of personal finance and investing as well as your financial habits in order to catch up to your peers.
- 16-20 points: Good job. You're fairly average among your peers.
- 21-25 points: Great job! This is going to work out well.
- 26-30 points: Financially speaking, you are quite advanced compared to your peers
- 31-35 points: You are in excellent shape and should have been assisting your residency peers and attendings with their finances.
- 36-40 points: Have you considered submitting a guest post to WCI?
- 41-45 points: You will be very rich, very soon.
- 46-49 points: Can I interest you in the purchase of a website?
- 50 points: Liar!
I figure I would have gotten 40 points at the time of residency graduation, certainly not a perfect score. How would you have done (or are doing if you graduate in 2015) upon residency graduation? Comment below!
28. Not bad, but certainly could be better. I graduate in 2016 and intend on having my wife’s comparatively small student loans paid off by then with a refinanced medical school loan and no non-student loan burden remaining. Where we could have done better is with the retirement accounts — as in, we should have one or two. Thanks to WCI, I know what to look for during job interviews and intend on taking full advantage of all of the retirement benefits available to me when I work as an attending.
I’ve given a couple of personal finance lectures to my fellow residents, and this survey will definitely be added to my next one!
35, woohoo! Is that an Honors? Also, will this be on the test? 😉
this is great, my graduation is a few years away. it’s good to take a look at these points and work towards where I want to be in the future.
What is your net worth?
Now- 4 points: $1 to $100K
In 5 years- 5 points: >$100K
What is your starting salary as an attending?
Now-2 points: <$200K
In 5 years-3 points: <$200-300K
What is your student loan burden?
Now-5 points: No student loans
What is your non-student loan, non-mortgage burden?
Now and in 5 years-2 points: $20K-30K
What is your living situation?
Now and in 5 years -4 points: I have a small amount of home equity
What is your partner’s situation?
Now and in 5 years-4 points: Partner will be working full-time
How did you do with Roth IRAs during residency?
Now and in 5 years- 4 points: I maxed out a 23.5k of ROTH IRA and ROTH 403b for 5/6 years of training
How is your financial knowledge?
5 points: I write guest posts for WCI
What is your plan?
5 points: I plan to live like a resident for 2-5 years after residency, and max out every retirement account available to me
What is the overall average expense ratio of your portfolio including advisory fees?
Now and in 5 years: 5 points: < 0.25% per year
Now: 43
At residency graduation: 45
38. Only hampered by student loans that we plan to have paid off in two years. Living in a low cost of living area and have a full-time working spouse helps a lot but I owe a ton of thanks to the WCI, as most of what I know I learned either on this website, from related blogs or from books that were recommended on this website. Can’t say thanks enough.
All you docs should be funding ROTH IRA in residency!!!
39 based on my answers from when I graduated 6 years ago. Current net worth=$2.4
Maybe consider not penalizing for doing fellowship as that often leads to a higher income. Question could be applied to graduating residency or fellowship.
Yeah a little perplexed by the fellowship penalty. Especially when military commitment gets a point 😉
Fellows make less than military docs. That was the reasoning. Like I said, this hasn’t been validated. 🙂
Hi Bob,
Did you mean your current net worth after 6 years out of residency is $2.4 million? If so, could you please share a bit more on how you accomplish this?
Thank you very much.
I maxed out my Roth IRA as soon as I started making money in college and then started a Roth IRA for my wife as soon as we got engaged (little income = no taxes = amazing tax free investment vehicle). We saved 38% of gross income for the first 5 years after graduating from fellowship (have since backed down to 32%)–we essentially live off of 18-20% of our gross after savings, taxes, and donations (yes, James C, I am a front loader, but it feels great and the purse strings open more and more each year. I feel very comfortable that we will be able to sustain our increasing life-style long-term with early retirement). Doing a 1-year fellowship essentially doubled my earning potential (thus my beef with the WCI question). Timing also helped a lot as I finished fellowship in 2009 and have enjoyed a nice run of the stock market since then. Over the past 15 years, I have spent a ton of time researching out and learning on my own the principles taught by WCI. WCI could have saved me a ton of time if he would have started this sooner! I rarely disagree with the principles taught by WCI. Follow the precepts, life will be much much easier. Follow James C = broke with an STD 🙂 –classic posts by James C, I hope we hear from him more in the future, very entertaining. All-time best piece of advice that WCI gives is to live like a resident for the first 5 years. If you can do that, the rest of your financial life will likely be a cake walk.
31 (I haven’t graduated yet but I hope to find a job that pays 200-300K). I’m surprised no points for insurance planning though.
Good point.
34, no too shabby. I was lucky enough to stumble upon this website in my fist year of residency; had I not, this would be much much lower. Thanks for all the good advice wci.
41 today…
Wife just began 3rd year of anesthesia residency and plans to do a fellowship. Found this site, Bogleheads, and Dave Ramsey when she graduated med school, which have been incredibly helpful.
We’ve benefited from me working a nice job through med school on, plus our hometown hospital’s arrangements to help with a significant portion of tuition.
39. Not bad considering my wife is a new intern. In answer to your question, I already have written a published guest post for the blog.
23 when I graduated. Of course, this ridiculously awesome website/resource wasn’t available back then. Damn you, WCI, for not starting this website 15 years ago!
Yea, I really could have used it too. It would have saved me a lot of time, effort, and money.
23 points at Graduation 2 years ago. My financial education has come quickly since then.
26… Not great but I’ve got good plans for improvement. Thanks WCI for the good work.
26, but got a big bump at the very end from super low fee tax deferred accounts. Big negatives for net worth and student loans. Pretty average income. But we’re going in the right direction with a plan.
Score:38 Just started PGY4 (of 5). Plan for fellowship after. Anticipate score will increase to 43 after fellowship.
27. Just graduating EM residency in a low cost city. Med school loans and net worth bring me down, but hopefully that will turn around soon! Thank for everything.
44.
Yikes! Only 25 when I finished in 2012 (and I would have thought at the time that I was financially sophisticated!). Thankfully, however, due to a desire to get out of debt, I lived frugally and paid off my loans within a year of graduation. Reading about asset allocation when I became eligible for our 401k led me eventually to WCI and Bogleheads. My score now is 44.
40. Probably would have been about 15 if I had not found WCI during my intern year.
My score is 31. Before coming across WCI during my Med 4 year, I thought that picking individual stocks was going to be my calling when it came to investing in retirement. (I had bought some Apple stock with my high school graduation money and invested some money in two biotech companies who each tripled their value over the course of a year).
However, I started reading WCI and then wrote down my next 5 picks on paper and sure enough three months later they were all at a loss. Thank you for pulling me out of the game while I was ahead! I showed the site to my fiancée and she was immediately on board. Fast forward 2 years and my wife and I both just finished our PGY-1 year. As crazy of a year as it was (first rotation I was on night float while she was on days), I am most proud of what we accomplished together with one year of income. In that time, we have put 1/3 of our salary toward paying off a variable rate 20k private loan (interest rate was at 12% for when my wife did a year of post-bac), set up disability insurance with current benefits of 5k that have future purchase option riders up to 12-15k each (along with every other recommended rider on your website), purchased 30 year laddered, term life insurance policies for 2.1 million each that decrease by 700k every 10 years, and then used the remaining 3K to partially fund a Roth IRA with index fund of Vanguard 500 (VFINX). Our goal this year is to fully fund each of our Roth IRAs and an additional 4.5k to our 401Ks (20% of our salary). I can’t tell you how amazing it is to have a spouse on the same page financially. I think we actually bond talking about our finances! I sleep so much better now that we have the insurance policies because the only thing that could derail our financial future at this point would be either death or disability because we are on the same page in living like a resident once we are attendings. Our 10 year plan is to continue loan payments in PAYE and pray to God PSLF is still around in 9 years (given I want to do Cards and she is in Radiology, most of that time will be spent in residency/fellowship). As a backup plan, we will set up monthly “payments” once we are attendings to pay off our loans in 4 years. These payments will go into a bond index fund or some other safe investment. Worst case scenario, we pay off the loans by year 10 and are debt free. Best case, they are forgiven and we have an extra 450k added to our net worth!
The entire plan and paragraph above is all thanks to the advice found on this website. Besides our parents and our job, I think you are the greatest influence on my marriage. I re-read it and am amazed to see how far we’ve come. Thank you for everything and please keep up the great work. We always look forward to reading your next post
I’m honored. Sounds like you two will become very wealthy, very quickly.
41 at graduation….but I would have had a really nice Porsche at graduation instead if I hadn’t found this website….so thanks for that!
29. Now 2 weeks into my first big boy attending job as a Hospitalist and waiting for that first paycheck next week. Wish the number was higher, but I’m still in way better shape than most of my residency colleagues. I read thru all of the “First Timer’s” posts on ICU night float as a PGY2 and suddenly my co-residents think I’m some kind of finance wizard just because I started actually talking about money in the resident lounge.
It doesn’t take much knowledge to know more than all of your colleagues.
22 🙁 just graduated from a 3 year peds GI fellowship and am 31. No student loans, no financial knowledge but I think WCI will be a great starting point. Thanks
45.5 currently.
45 after graduation. See below why.
Thanks for posting this self-assessment. I am a tiny bit older than most new grads and will finish my IR rad training when I turn 33 (2.5 years from now). Married and currently no kids. Hopefully soon though.
What is your net worth?
5. > 100k
What is your starting salary as an attending?
4. Between 300-400k (As a rad IR, hopefully this is still achievable with some sacrifices)
What is your student loan burden?
4 + 1: 100k. House is paid off and given as a gift/living inheritance from my parents. This has been an unbelievable blessing that has helped propel my personal finances.
*****What is your partner’s situation?*****
Currently 4. After graduation will be 2. She has no debt. Given that this is strictly a financial quiz, my score will drop because my wife plans to stay at home and raise our kids while they are young. To each is own.
How did you do with Roth IRAs during residency?
Between 4-5 points: Maxed out my Roth IRA all years. Maxed out spousal Roth IRA years I have been married. Maxed out my 457 2 years and half contribution 1 year. Hoping to max all out from now on out as well.
How is your financial knowledge?
3 points: I have read three or more financial books or I have read most of the posts on the site. Read a couple bogleheads books, tons of WCI posts and the book, a book on sole proprietorship and taxes, and several fund books. Started dabbling in some real estate books–but truthfully residency is more important right now.
What is your plan?
5 points: I plan to live like a resident for 2-5 years after residency, and max out every retirement account available to me.
What is the overall average expense ratio of your portfolio including advisory fees?
5 points: < 0.25% per year
I want to thank WCI and bogleheads because they have helped shape my finances and my decisions. The knowledge I gain from these sites have helped me set goals for myself and I can proudly say that I am currently on track.
45.5 currently.
45 after graduation. See below why.
For some reason, it did not compy correctly from word. Please find the correct post below!
Thanks for posting this self-assessment. I am a tiny bit older than most new grads and will finish my IR rad training when I turn 33 (2.5 years from now). Married and currently no kids. Hopefully soon though.
What is your net worth?
5. > 100k
What is your starting salary as an attending?
4. Between 300-400k (As a rad IR, hopefully this is still achievable with some sacrifices)
What is your student loan burden?
4 + 1: 100k. House is paid off and given as a gift/living inheritance from my parents. This has been an unbelievable blessing that has helped propel my personal finances.
*****What is your partner’s situation?*****
Currently 4. After graduation will be 2. She has no debt. Given that this is strictly a financial quiz, my score will drop because my wife plans to stay at home and raise our kids while they are young. To each is own.
How did you do with Roth IRAs during residency?
Between 4-5 points: Maxed out my Roth IRA all years. Maxed out spousal Roth IRA years I have been married. Maxed out my 457 2 years and half contribution 1 year. Hoping to max all out from now on out as well.
How is your financial knowledge?
3 points: I have read three or more financial books or I have read most of the posts on the site. Read a couple bogleheads books, tons of WCI posts and the book, a book on sole proprietorship and taxes, and several fund books. Started dabbling in some real estate books–but truthfully residency is more important right now.
What is your plan?
5 points: I plan to live like a resident for 2-5 years after residency, and max out every retirement account available to me.
What is the overall average expense ratio of your portfolio including advisory fees?
5 points: < 0.25% per year
I want to thank WCI and bogleheads because they have helped shape my finances and my decisions. The knowledge I gain from these sites have helped me set goals for myself and I can proudly say that I am currently on track.
Not sure why it’s not pasting properly. Sorry!