Podcast #69 Show Notes: An Interview with Dr. Carrie Reynolds from Hippocratic Hustle

I interview Dr. Carrie Reynolds  from The Hippocratic Hustle Podcast in this episode. She developed the Hippocratic Hustle Podcast to create a space where women doctors can share stories of their business, project or side-hustle, explore ways to stretch their money, and be more efficient with time and money. We talk about women and their finances, side hustles, and her transition to locums in this episode. You can listen to the podcast here or it is available via the traditional podcast outlets, ITunesOvercastAcast, Stitcher, Google Play.  Or ask Alexa to play it for you. Enjoy!


Podcast # 69 Sponsor

[00:00:20] This episode is sponsored by our friends at Zoe Financial. Finding a reputable financial advisor can be difficult. And even more difficult, is finding an advisor you personally connect with, that also specializes in the areas where you need help like taxes, diversifying investments, or just budgeting. That’s where Zoefin.com comes in. They have developed an algorithm that matches you with with an advisor based on your unique life stage & goals. All of the advisors in Zoe’s network are independent, accredited, fee only fiduciaries – amazingly this means that Zoe rejects 95% of the advisors they interview, so you don’t have to waste time with sales people. Visit Zoefin.com/whitecoat to take their quiz and schedule your free call today.

Quote of the Day

[00:01:09] “The paradox of wealth is that people tend to want it to signal to others that they should be liked and admired. But in reality those other people bypass admiring you, not because they don’t think wealth is admirable, but because they use your wealth solely as a benchmark for their own desire to be liked and admired.” -Morgan Housel

Main Topic

    1.  [00:03:09]  Dr. Reynolds tells us about her upbringing and education, career and new job doing locums.
    2. [00:14:32] We talk about her new Nissan Leaf.
    3. [00:19:01] We talk about her financial life, where she is at and what are her goals.
    4.  [00:20:37] Dr. Reynolds tells us about the birth of The Hippocratic Hustle and what she is trying to accomplish with it.
    5. [00:22:16] I ask her, “if you could sit every physician in the country down and have 5 minutes with them, what would you say?”
    6.  [00:29:23] We talk about her favorite episode of The Hippocratic Hustle.
    7. [00:30:27] We talk about the Friends Talk Finances episodes she has done with Miss Bonnie MD.
    8.  [00:32:17] I ask Dr. Reynolds, “why did she decide to just focus on women? what did you feel wasn’t being done well by non-gender specific folks in the space?”
    9.  [00:33:18] I ask, “what is different for women when it comes to finances?”
    10. [00:35:13] We discuss if women are more likely to learn from/ listen to a woman teaching them new principles.  And if she thinks men are the same in this respect.
    11. [00:37:04] We discuss should most doctors have a side hustle and why?
    12. [00:41:30] I ask her, “if your side hustle took off and started making a ton of money, how would that affect your career in medicine?”

Ending

Make sure you join the WCI Facebook group. Lots of great discussion going on there. Also check out the WCI YouTube channel. We are putting new videos up there as well.

Full Transcription

Intro: [00:00:00] This is the white coat investor podcast where we help those who wear the white coat get a fair shake on Wall Street. We’ve been helping doctors and other high income professionals stop doing dumb things with their money since 2011. Here’s your host Dr. Jim Dahle.

 

WCI: [00:00:20] Welcome to White coat investor podcast number 69 an Interview with Carrie Reynolds M.D. this episode is sponsored by our friends at Zawi financial. Finding a reputable financial adviser can be difficult and even more difficult is finding an adviser you personally connect with. That also specializes in the areas where you need help like taxes diversify and investments or just budgeting. That’s where Zoe Fin dot com comes in. That is Zoe Fin dot com. They have developed an algorithm that matches you with an adviser based on your unique life stage and goals. All the advisers in Zoe’s network are independent accredited fee only fiduciaries. And amazingly this means Zoe rejects 95 percent of the advisers they interview, so you don’t have to waste time with salespeople. Visit Zoe Fin dot com slash Whitecoat to take their quiz and schedule your free call today. As Zoe Fin dot com slash white coat.

 

WCI: [00:01:09] Our quote of the day today comes from Morgan Housel who said the paradox of wealth is that people tend to want it to signal to others that they should be liked and admired. But in reality those other people bypass admiring you, not because they don’t think wealth is admirable but because they use your wealth solely as a benchmark for their own desire to be liked and admired.

 

WCI: [00:01:28] Thank you so much for what you do not only for sharing this podcast and the website with your friends and colleagues, peers and trainees, but also for the daily work you do taking care of your patients.

 

WCI: [00:01:40] A lot of times we forget that we’ve been in this career for a few years Just how important the work we do is. We have these days where we feel like we didn’t do any good at all. I mean sometimes I go into the emergency department and I feel like I’ve seen a half dozen people with abdominal pain and half dozen people with chest pain and I haven’t actually come up with a diagnosis for any of them. But you know what? Every now and then you’re making a huge difference and if nothing else you can at least provide some reassurance to people and a listening ear for them on some of the worst days of their lives. So don’t forget that what you do is important whether you’re a physician or an attorney or other high income professional. There are people who are desperately in need of your services and your expertise in that time you spent studying really was valuable.

 

WCI: [00:02:22] Today we’ve got something pretty special. We’re going to be bringing on Carrie Reynolds M.D. who is the founder of the Hippocratic hustle. Let’s get into that interview now.

 

WCI: [00:02:31] All right welcome back to the White coat investor podcast we have a special guest today, Dr. Carrie Reynolds from Denver. She is a pediatric gastroenterologist. You probably don’t know her from Gastroenterology Practice however you probably know her from the Hippocratic hustle, a very popular podcast that she does particularly aimed at women physicians and trying to help them with side hustles which she is becoming very quickly an expert on it turns out. Welcome to the show Dr. Reynolds.

 

Dr. Reynolds: [00:03:06] Oh thanks so much Jim for having me. I’m really excited to be here.

 

WCI: [00:03:09] You’re very welcome. Let’s get into this. I’m going to have you tell us a little bit about yourself. Kind of introduce yourself. Can you start just talking about your upbringing and family growing up and your education.

 

Dr. Reynolds: [00:03:20] Sure. Yeah I was born and raised in Michigan, in southwest Michigan, to a pretty normal American family, middle class. I went to private schools as I was growing up, private Christian schools, which I know my parents really you know pulled together all their finances to be able to put my brother and I through that kind of education ultimately went to Kalamazoo College. And that was a liberal arts private liberal arts school which was super expensive and but they they helped me part way on scholarships and student loans and everything helped me with that. I actually majored in history in undergrad so after I graduated I had to think about what I was going to do when I was done and ultimately took about two years to decide that I wanted to do further studies and ultimately landed on medicine.

 

Dr. Reynolds: [00:04:12] I Went to Michigan State University for All My premed courses and then went on to Wayne State University in Detroit.

 

WCI: [00:04:19] Very cool. And after you’ve finished med school?

 

Dr. Reynolds: [00:04:24] Yes. After I finished med school did pediatric residency in metro Detroit at Beaumont Hospital in Royal Oak and then a fellowship in Kansas City. So I’ve been around a little bit. My husband’s family lives here in Denver so we followed them out here to Denver about three years ago and we’re really enjoying the mountains and the skiing and everything that the West has to offer.

 

WCI: [00:04:45] I’m a big fan of the West as most people know. But I actually interviewed in Kalamazoo.

 

Dr. Reynolds: [00:04:51] Oh did you really?

 

WCI: [00:04:51] I kind of interviewed everywhere it turned out. I’m not sure what I was thinking. I actually did 21 residency interviews. But the one that treated me the best was in Kalamazoo. They had this sweet swag bag that all the interviewees got. It was pretty fun. I remember however driving just south of there and I can’t remember where I was driving to Indianapolis or something.

 

WCI: [00:05:12] But I came up on the back of it is like an Amish wagon or something about 70 miles an hour on some back road. And luckily they had this big sign on the back of a horse drawn wagon that I saw and didn’t actually smack into the back of them but it was quite an experience. That was the first Amish person I had ever seen.

 

Dr. Reynolds: [00:05:33] Oh yeah. Oh yeah. The mires there have horse hitches in that area. So yeah. Yeah.

 

WCI: [00:05:41] Very cool. Yes. You know it’s interesting. There’s a story that I read out of one of the throwaway journals in emergency medicine about this Amish guy that goes into a FIB all the time, has to go and get cardioverted. But I guess they kind of pool their resources to pay for their health care. And so generally pay cash. So he didn’t want to spend any more of his community’s money than he had to.

 

WCI: [00:06:02] So he actually skipped the sedation is what he does when he goes into cardio averted. He just goes give it to me Doc it only hurts for a little bit.

 

Dr. Reynolds: [00:06:10] Oh my Gosh. Tough Cookie there.

 

WCI: [00:06:12] I tell you I think so. I think a lot of those folks are pretty tough. All right. Well you just revealed something to me just before we started this podcast that I want to talk about. I understand that one week ago, we’re recording this now what’s today? Let’s see today’s the 27 of July. One week ago today was your last day your W-2 job.

 

Dr. Reynolds: [00:06:32] That’s right. That’s right. I’m so excited about this transition. It’s kind of ridiculous. So you asked me were like What are you doing on Friday. Are you home? and I’m like because I just quit my job. It’s so much fun to be able to say that.

 

WCI: [00:06:46] It’s a rare moment for a M.D. to quit their job.

 

Dr. Reynolds: [00:06:49] Yes. Oh my gosh. Yeah. So I mean it was something that was coming along. I’ve been in this practice for almost three years. It was time to think about if I want to do partnership or if I wanted to stay on as an employee. If you know what I wanted to do, is like a transition time. And after talking to the owners of the group it was pretty clear that we didn’t have the same business sense not business sense but the same business ideas and the same business goals for ourselves. Their goals were different than my goals. So since their goals were so different than mine it wasn’t a good place for me to stay. And so I made the decision to find something else to do.

 

WCI: [00:07:28] Wow. It’s a huge step. It sounds like you kind of left. And do you have everything ironed out for what you want to do now or is that kind of a leap into the great unknown?

 

Dr. Reynolds: [00:07:40] Hilarious. I didn’t just like drop the mic peace out you know, beat the printer in the in the in the field like on office space. But no. No. I made some plans before I left for sure I can’t I. You know we’ll get to this probably but I.

 

Dr. Reynolds: [00:07:56] My husband and I between the two of us have over 500 thousand dollars in loans, student loans that we’re still trying to work on. So definitely cannot just.

 

WCI: [00:08:04] Not working wasn’t an option.

 

Dr. Reynolds: [00:08:06] So no not at all.

 

WCI: [00:08:08] So tell us what you are going to do now?

 

Dr. Reynolds: [00:08:09] So I will be doing locums. I’m really really excited about this transition. I have talked to some amazing people who have been really successful with locums as a career choice actually and not just as a temporary situation. And the people that I’ve talked to have been very excited and very supportive of me getting into that ring and I’m really excited about it because it affords me a chance to help people who otherwise wouldn’t have access to my subspecialty.

 

Dr. Reynolds: [00:08:40] So I’m hoping the patient population also will be very appreciative that I’m coming out to their small town and providing them care so they don’t have to drive four or five hours. You know growing up in Michigan and growing up in medicine in Michigan you really don’t have to drive very far unless you live in the UP you don’t have to drive very far for medical care even if you live out in what we would call the country you might drive two hours. But here in the West Jim you might realize this too. It’s just like people drive five or six hours eight hours. I’ve seen patients who drove eight hours to talk to me about constipation.

 

Dr. Reynolds: [00:09:10] So I’m I’m really excited about being able to provide access to some of these areas that don’t have pediatric gastroenterology. To help out those pediatricians and those providers out in the communities out and in the more rural areas and help them out just the way that I do here in the city.

 

WCI: [00:09:27] It’s pretty amazing. A lot of people don’t realize just how big it is out here. I mean the University of Utah is a tertiary care center that draws from all of Utah. Most of western Wyoming and all of Southern Idaho. A big chunk of eastern Nevada and even some of northern Arizona and western Colorado. So it’s pretty impressive just how far people will come. Did you find that it was particularly easy or particularly difficult as a pediatric subspecialists to do locums?

 

Dr. Reynolds: [00:09:57] So far so good. So definitely when I look at the job offerings when I was looking into locums there weren’t that many jobs available. But they all seemed to have a pretty specific need and need more than one person. So I don’t I don’t think there’s a lot of people in my specialty who are doing this. So there definitely is enough work. And I was able to find work pretty easily. I was warned by the recruiter that I was working with that there might be times when it would dry up a little bit and maybe there wouldn’t be work for a little bit. So I’m trying to you know make hay when the sun shines and really you know put in some hours and then maybe if I’m forced to take a break for a month or two I’m sorting something else out then I’ll have that that that freedom and flexibility to do that.

 

WCI: [00:10:43] Now it seems like with the more specialized you are the more difficult it is to get out of a big city. The more difficult it is to get out of a tertiary medical center. But you’re kind of hyper specialized here and you’re talking about small towns. how does it work exactly?

 

Dr. Reynolds: [00:11:00] Well it’s fascinating one of my partners and one of my best friends from a fellowship actually works out in a small town on the west side of Colorado, Grand Junction. And she started out part time because she really thought you know I’m not going to have enough business out here to you know to support full time. And she is so busy part time now that demand is so high out there and people are driving three or four hours to see her out in that area.

 

WCI: [00:11:25] So it doesn’t surprise me. Have you been to Grand Junction?

 

Dr. Reynolds: [00:11:28] Oh yeah yeah actually. I mean it’s not a horribly small place it’s a small town but it’s not totally it’s you know it’s a nice little town on the west side. So you know there’s a lot of places like that around you know around the West that have a fair amount of people and their pediatricians in their mid level providers especially have some concerns about patients and they and they need you know more specialized care and they don’t feel comfortable managing some of these cases. And so they’re seeking out pediatric subspecialty to help them out.

 

WCI: [00:12:02] Particularly those that love mountain biking that is what I know about of Grand Junction. There’s a lot of pretty awesome mountain biking out there.

 

Dr. Reynolds: [00:12:08] But there is there is.

 

WCI: [00:12:10] All right well that’s cool. That’s exciting. So how does this line up with your side hustle the Hippocratic Hustle. how is this going to work out with doing locums?

 

Dr. Reynolds: [00:12:20] Yeah I think this was another thing that pushed me into wanting to do this. You know I’ve started the podcast over a year ago and have been trying to be very consistent with getting episodes out once a week as much as possible. But as you know Jim this is not an easy thing to do. It takes a lot of work and a lot of time especially with all the engagement one needs to deal with social media when you’re in this business. And so definitely as I’ve gotten deeper and deeper into the podcasting and enjoyed it more and more I’ve wanted to dedicate more and more of my time to it. So it was almost like I was working. I don’t want to say two full time jobs but it felt like it and at times when I was trying to get stuff out for the podcast that I was working full time and my regular job and then the podcast was taking so much time. So super excited because right now Friday was my last day. I have about four to six weeks until I start my next my first locums gig so I have all this time to really focus on it and really really nail down the podcast so I’m super excited about that.

 

WCI: [00:13:22] Is that the most time I say time off. You and I both know it’s not time off but. Is this the most time you haven’t been involved in medicine since you started medical school. Four to six weeks?

 

Dr. Reynolds: [00:13:33] I would have to say pretty much. Yes. I mean I took maternity leave so that was another break that I had in the first year of my residency. But other than that yeah I think even when I was moving it was like one week off to move. I can’t imagine another time where I’ve even taken gosh more than two weeks off. Maybe two weeks in a row would be the max.

 

WCI: [00:13:56] For those numbers just catching on we’re talking to Carrie Reynolds M.D. of the Hippocratic hustle you can find her work at Hippocratic hustle dot com. She is most known for her podcast there which focuses on all things side hustle particularly geared at women physicians.

 

WCI: [00:14:15] All right so you mentioned something else before we got on the show today. You have a recent purchase. I think a lot of physicians particularly environmentally conscious physicians and maybe frugal physicians have at least thought about at some point. Can you tell us about it.

 

Dr. Reynolds: [00:14:32] Oh my gosh I just I’m so excited about it. I just bought a Nissan Leaf a 2008 Nissan Leaf. Electric all electric plug is in charge the battery. That’s all you got. So it’s it’s super exciting to be able to drive you know in such an environmentally friendly way and it’s a really cool car.

 

WCI: [00:14:51] Very cool. Now a bunch of my partners have Leafs. They joked about racing them to our meetings you know. I almost wonder. Besides the you know the fact that you’re not killing the environment which is a big deal here in Salt Lake where we have a smog problem.

 

WCI: [00:15:07] But it’s almost like it’s an OK status symbol to buy. I’ve noticed on my forum there’s a big long thread about Tesla’s whereas I think if it was about Portia’s I think people would look down their nose little bit at it cause it’s environmentally conscious too. It’s almost like a double status symbol. You get a say hey you know not only can I buy a Tesla but I can you know I’m saving the planet too. Yeah do you see that in the electric car community?

 

Dr. Reynolds: [00:15:38] Oh my gosh. Definitely. I mean I got into my interest in the electric cars of course because I see the Tesla ex driving around and that is literally my dream car. I mean a family car that looks so sweet and it’s electric.

 

Dr. Reynolds: [00:15:50] Yet you just can’t go wrong. Right. But you price out you price that thing out. It’s eight. Eighty thousand dollars. Two hundred thousand dollars in even the sedan is 50000. I didn’t even price it out seriously because I knew it was like ridiculous. So then they have this new Tesla the Tesla 3 that was going to be 30000. But then you add all the options and it ends up being 50 60 but whatever.

 

WCI: [00:16:13] Not exactly compatible with half a million dollars in student loans.

 

Dr. Reynolds: [00:16:16] No all. So definitely. Also like a two year wait list for that for that newer Tesla so definitely wasn’t on my radar at all. But I started hearing about the tax breaks that you can get with it now. Now people have to act on this quick because they’re going to be phased out. They’re going to be starting to be phased out. Coming up really really soon but here in Colorado which actually does have the best tax breaks available for electric cars. I mean really all that stuff. It’s crazy. So if you buy the a new car. So I guess that’s why I got a new one I would never buy a new car. Honestly I never would. I would always buy about a two year old car if I buy anything. But if you buy new you get five thousand dollars from the state. So that was automatically just taken off the top of the price you get three thousand dollars from my electric company and that was just right off the price. So right there you’re down 8 0 0 0. And then from the federal government if your taxes work out you get 7500 when you do your taxes here in the next year. So I mean you add all that up and it just makes the car so affordable right now. Plus for a new car. And it’s electric. And I won’t need to do any oil changes. I won’t. You basically need to rotate the tires and get new wiper blades. And that’s it.

 

WCI: [00:17:36] Pretty attractive. So yeah those tax breaks add up to about half the price of the car?

 

Dr. Reynolds: [00:17:40] Well the car does does start somewhere in the 30s I think in the low end and it maxes out a little under 40 so it does you know it still isn’t you know the cheapest car in the world but I was able to trade in my I did have a poorly thought out purchase a couple of years ago I bought a Lexus R X 350 and. And so I was able to trade that in and basically with all those tax breaks breakeven on my entire purchase. So. So I definitely you know I think I’m making a great choice to buy this new car which is kind of crazy because like I said I always buy them you know off lease when they get 14000 miles on them and that’s a good place to start. And I was planning on driving this Lexus into the ground. That was my my my plan I had it for about five years. But this opportunity presents itself. And plus every time I go to Lexus dealership I spend about 600 dollars. I was looking back at my transactions and just the maintenance on that sucker was was crazy even though it didn’t break. I mean that’s why I bought it. But it’s really reliable but.

 

WCI: [00:18:45] It really sounds like the boat dealer to me. I’ve got joint custody of my boat. They have it all week I have it on the weekends it’s like you know we’re divorced and we split the kids but I feel like I’m always getting something fixed in there. Truly a boat is a hole in the water you throw money into.

 

WCI: [00:19:01]  All right. Well we’ve alluded a little bit to some things in your financial life since this financial podcast we probably ought to talk a little bit about finances. Tell us about your financial life where you’re at. What are your goals, etc.

 

Dr. Reynolds: [00:19:12] Yes so basically I am working on becoming financially independent I more recently have gotten into the financial independence. You know scene and sphere and listening to all these financial independent podcasts that I’m really big fans of now and so I’m really putting a lot of focus on that. I’ve always been focused on getting rid of my student loans. But up to about a couple years ago I was kind of in that camp Just hold onto some of those lower interest student loans and letting them let them rot in there essentially because the interest was so low. But I really want to just get rid of them. I want to get rid of them. I want them gone and I want that freedom and flexibility that financial independence can provide. So even though I’m not there yet. And like I said I guess we still have a long way to go. My husband and I have recently made some choices in our life as far as our work. Like I I made a choice. My husband recently changed his work in order to improve our cash flow.

 

Dr. Reynolds: [00:20:10] So. So we’re going to be putting all the extra money directly to the student loans and also maxing out our our tax advantaged retirement savings and really making a strong effort and a plan for a possible early retirement.

 

WCI: [00:20:25] Congratulations that’s exciting things. Yeah. All right let’s talk about the Hippocratic hustle. Tell us about its birth and what you’re trying to accomplish with that.

 

Dr. Reynolds: [00:20:37] Yeah I think it was born out of me being a little bit bored. I must which is kind of funny to say because I must just have A.D.H.D or something I need to be doing something constantly but I was out in practice for about a year and I was feeling a little bit. I was feeling bored maybe a little burned out. I mean I had only been working for a year but you know you go to the clinic and you see patients and you come home and it just didn’t it wasn’t very fulfilling for me. So I started thinking about what I what I could do what would be kind of fun for me and I. I’ve always listened to podcasts ever since.

 

Dr. Reynolds: [00:21:09] Gosh I was probably about 2002 when I first started listening to podcasts so it’s always been something that I’ve enjoyed listening to and it’s always been one of my favorite ways to get information I just can’t sit and read blogs. I apologize. I just can’t think I can’t sit still very well.

 

Dr. Reynolds: [00:21:25] So I love listening while I’m cleaning my house or driving to work and getting information that way. So I was kind of thinking what could I do and I’ve been I’m on a lot of women Facebook groups women physician Facebook groups and on those groups there’s always people who are trying to explain what interesting thing they’re doing. And it’s so hard to type that out and to share that in the Facebook forums that are on there so I thought well if I just interview them you know it could get their story out and I would find it interesting. I find it interesting someone else might. So that’s where the Hippocratic hustle came from.

 

WCI: [00:22:01] Very cool. Now for those of you who keep hounding me to do more than one podcast episode a week, I got people told me they want me to read all my blog posts into the podcast. Well you guys need more podcasts. Here’s your chance to get another podcast. Hippocratic hustle dot com.

 

WCI: [00:22:16] You can find it anywhere you get podcasts. You know that’s right. And so check that out. What would you say is your message for physicians if you could sit every physician in the country Down and have five minutes with them. What would you say?

 

Dr. Reynolds: [00:22:31] I would tell them that they are not stuck. I think so many times doctors think that they’re stuck in the job that they have or they’re stuck in the rut that they have they’re stuck with their student loans. I mean there are things you can do. You can be creative and you can get out of that rut. You know that happens so much in my subspecialty because so many people go into academics and then they feel like they can’t leave the institution that they grew up in and that they work at.

 

Dr. Reynolds: [00:22:55] But there are other places you can go there. You know if you’re feeling like you have too many student loans to pay off there’s the geographic arbitrage. I mean you can move. I know it sounds hard because if you live near family you may not want to do that but you can move you can. You can attack these loans you can attack and reach financial independence and then move back to where you want to come you know where you’re from where it’s higher cost living or whatnot. I mean there are things you can do. So doctors you are not stuck.

 

WCI: [00:23:24] Now let me push back a little bit about that against that. I mean isn’t medicine this incredibly awesome job. Who wouldn’t want to be a doctor and to be in this rut. You know as you call it. I mean haven’t we just spent a decade and a half learning how to be a pediatric gastroenterologist and then now we’re talking about getting out of a rut. You know I mean what do you think happens over that time. Period that 10 or 15 year training period or the first five or 10 years in practice that causes people with this job they dreamed about for decades to feel like they’re stuck?

 

Dr. Reynolds: [00:24:00] Yeah I mean I think burnout kicks in. And here’s what I think actually is that when you’re going through medical school you’re going through residency you’re going through fellowship all those things there’s always something that you’re working towards. There’s always a test that you need to take or you know a challenge that you need to reach as far as like maybe research or things like that that that can basically occupy your mind. But when you’re getting out and working you may not have that challenge anymore because you’re out and working and it feels like that’s what it felt like to me that when you’re working a regular 9:00 to 5:00. Well it’s really you know seven to six job you. You just feel like what else is there. There’s you know this can’t be all there is. And some people gain for felt fulfillment from working you know towards their business goals. As far as like maybe owning the practice or things like that and that will lend them some creativity and some outlet for that kind of you know intellectual energy that we have as physicians and some people need to do a side hustle or a side gig or a mission project or things like that that can really keep them engaged and interested. So those are the people I like to focus on the podcast are the people who are doing creative things that really help them fight burnout.

 

WCI: [00:25:19] You know it’s interesting. It’s this strange conundrum that once you become competent at what you’re doing you become good at it you become most useful to the world as it is about the time you get bored with it.

 

Dr. Reynolds: [00:25:33] Right. Yes. I think I think we were trained to do that in medical school. I mean it’s been three years and that’s the time that my fellowship took, that’s the time that my residency took, its you know medical schools for years undergrads four years. I think we have these like chunks and segments of energy that we’re putting into things and then we have to then we’re forced to move on to the next thing. And so I think if there’s not something for you to work towards in your in your job or in your work that you’ll start feeling the itch.

 

WCI: [00:26:00] Yeah. As I look back over my career my favorite job was residency. And I loved being a resident. Now the hours kind of sucked and I basically stepped out of the whole rest of my life for three years. Right. But the actual work being at the hospital doing something for the first time seeing something new. Oh I don’t know. It was great. And I’ve never found the excitement about medicine anywhere else that I had during residency. I loved it. Yeah. If I could figure out a way to be learning and seeing as much new stuff all the time as I did during residency that would be a pretty awesome career. I guess I probably wouldn’t be very competent at what I was doing if I was seeing all the stuff for the first time.

 

Dr. Reynolds: [00:26:46] Well yeah. Well when you’re a senior resident it’s like you have your. I remember this being on call at the end of my residency and having my command center for college you know I was ready I had my phone I had all these phone numbers memorized I could get a hold of anybody I could. I was like I was I knew everything as far as like the the practice of the whole residency program. So anyway I felt really really competent in control then too.

 

WCI: [00:27:09] Which is a dramatically different feeling than a lot of interns right now are feeling isn’t it.

 

Dr. Reynolds: [00:27:14] Yeah for sure.

 

WCI: [00:27:15] All right. So you’ve had about 50000 or more downloads at this point. How’s it feel to know that people listen to you come back for more and are looking to you as a celebrity of some sort?

 

Dr. Reynolds: [00:27:25] Oh my gosh. I don’t know if I’d say celebrity but I feel so honored that people are listening to this show and that people are sending me feedback and that it’s going so well and people are telling me they are really enjoying the show. I guess it’s it’s something that we can be proud of. Jim I mean what you’ve built in what I’m building with the podcast it’s it’s a creative outlet for us it’s almost like a like a piece of art that we’re creating for people and when people appreciate that and you hear that it’s really fulfilling. So I really appreciate all my listeners. It’s so amazing.

 

WCI: [00:27:57] So I’ve had people walk up to you and say you sound just like you do on the podcast.

 

Dr. Reynolds: [00:28:02] Sometimes I feel like maybe I have my podcast voice on. I don’t know if I have it right now when I’m talking to people I sound kind of bored and you know just. But yeah.

 

WCI: [00:28:15] One of the most almost unnerving experiences you have. Particularly the more transparent you are I’m fairly transparent about our financial life on the blog. So people walk up to me that I’ve never met and know all these details about my life which is a little bit interesting sometimes where you go wow this is this is really unequal what we know about each other here in this conversation.

 

Dr. Reynolds: [00:28:39] Well it’s it’s so great to be able to connect with the listeners. And and it’s great when you can meet him in person too because then you can reciprocate a little bit on the connection. So that’s what’s great podcasting as you really can make that personal connection with your listener and. And so it’s just it’s a really neat medium. You know I’m sure some bloggers have been able to do that through the written word but through listening it’s so intimate because you can hear the podcasters voice and connect with them that way.

 

Dr. Reynolds: [00:29:07] So it’s you know I want my listeners to feel like you know either they’re talking to me on the phone or or maybe they’re in a coffee shop and they’re overhearing a really interesting conversation at the coffee shop. That’s that’s what I want to that’s what I want to portray with my podcast and so.

 

WCI: [00:29:23] See if you can get people to listen and pretend they’re not. So you’ve done now As of today 44 episodes is what I see up on your site. Which one of those was your favorite?

 

Dr. Reynolds: [00:29:37] Yeah I think my favorite might have been the first one I recorded which was my actually my second episode and that was an experiment. So it was the it was the pilot I suppose and I recorded it with my best friend in real life. So you know she had a business she’s a emergency medicine doctor and she runs a ketamine clinic. This is the Megan Oxley M.D. episode with ketamine the ketamine clinic episode. Anyway she runs a ketamine clinic and she lives in Detroit where I don’t live anymore and so I knew she was doing this but I didn’t hear all the details so it was the opportunity for me to hear the ins and outs of her new business and it was just really fun to be able to hear that and to realize that I could actually do this interview for my podcast. So that was exciting.

 

WCI: [00:30:27] Very cool. Now you also do a fair number of episodes with Miss BonnieM.D. You call them the friend’s talk finances.

 

Dr. Reynolds: [00:30:36] That’s right. That’s what we call that we may retitle that into something a little bit more creative. So it’s in the works. So stay tuned. But yes we are doing. We’re going to be doing more episodes together in the future she as some people might know she had a baby and they moved to Philadelphia and her life has been a bit crazy. So that kind of interfered with our recording to a certain extent. But I literally just got back from her house last night so we just spent the past couple days together and we had a lot of brainstorming sessions and so we were super excited for the future for this segment and yeah. So if anybody doesn’t know Miss BonnieM.D who is also a guest on your podcast right.

 

WCI: [00:31:15] Yeah let me see which episode she’s on I’d have to go back and look here that I think goes to 10 or 20 episodes ago or so.

 

Dr. Reynolds: [00:31:21] Yeah I don’t remember either. It was somewhere in the 20s I think but she is a personal finance blogger who focuses on women physicians so when I was doing this I reached out to her to see if she would want to be a recurring guest and I didn’t know her at all. I was just a fan girl honestly and I was one of those people who knew everything about her life. But she didn’t know me. And she graciously said yes.

 

Dr. Reynolds: [00:31:45] And so she signed up for you know recording a couple episodes with me and so we have some of past episodes out where we try to really break down finances and try to make it accessible for anybody really but women physicians in general are our audience. And so that the people don’t have to be scared of these financial topics.

 

WCI: [00:32:06] Very cool. So for those who are interested we featured Miss BonnieM.D on Episode 23 on the white coat investor Podcast, Episode 23 Cindy tells me.

 

Dr. Reynolds: [00:32:16] Awesome.

 

WCI: [00:32:17] So on your podcast you’ve kind of decided to focus on women. Tell me about that. What did you feel wasn’t being done well by non gender specific folks in this space.

 

Dr. Reynolds: [00:32:29] Yeah well I wanted to really make all this information accessible. And as I mentioned before so that people don’t feel intimidated by the topic. And I wanted also I wanted to connect with women and with my listeners on a personal level I think this kind of information is heard a little bit better by people when they’re spoken by their peers and explain by their peers so that they don’t feel intimidated by it.

 

Dr. Reynolds: [00:32:55] So that’s that’s really what I what I wanted to do and I’m in a lot of Facebook groups and the misinformation about disability insurance about life insurance about all that stuff is rampant.

 

Dr. Reynolds: [00:33:07] It is crazy. So there’s a lot of people that we have out there to educate. And so I think we need to try to get the message out in any way we can and reach as many people as we can.

 

WCI: [00:33:18] What do you find as different for women when it comes to finances?

 

Dr. Reynolds: [00:33:21] Yeah I think in general women have a little bit of an apprehension to it unless you know there’s someone special like Miss Bonnie M.D. They you know maybe weren’t educated deeply in it. I know that my mom was always the one who balanced the checkbook. And I think I’ve heard the statistic that over 80 percent of households the women run the day to day finances. But the statistic is much more swung in the men’s direction when it comes to the investments in the life insurance and kind of higher finance stuff than the day to day finances. So this is definitely something that I know is intimidating was intimidating to me. I guess I’m speaking to myself I’m speaking to my former self my younger self that I was intimidated when I first got into this and I just don’t want people to be intimidated because it’s it’s it’s not as hard as it seems. So definitely trying to make that accessible.

 

WCI: [00:34:17] You know I run into a lot of couples where he’s the doc she’s the stay at home mom. And she takes care of all the finances because he’s working 60 70 80 100 hours a week and she’s not only taking care of you know the checkbook and the buying of stuff she’s handling the budgeting and she’s handling the investments she’s handling the insurance she’s Yeah. They don’t become financially literate. The doctors you know typical doctor with finances and she has become this financial expert and the combination of the two of them has been very powerful. You got this high income and they’re using it very very wisely. And so I suspect that you probably have a lot of listeners that are women but are not physicians.

 

Dr. Reynolds: [00:35:04] Oh yeah I would love that for sure. Any way I can get the message out and to help families in general for sure that. That’s definitely my my ideal listener.

 

WCI: [00:35:13] Do you think women are more likely to learn from or listen to a woman teaching them new financial principles?

 

Dr. Reynolds: [00:35:19] Oh yeah I think so. I think so. I think like I said just hearing the message from a peer is just a more comfortable way to learn this stuff and just less intimidating. I think as women we’ve all had that that situation where we’ve been sitting down and there’s some man standing over us telling us what we should be doing and we know that we have no more education than that we are smarter than that and we don’t need to be treated in that way. So I think sometimes women are a little bit wary of of of that kind of situation. I know I’ve had that when I’ve tried to buy cars where the guy comes in and just kind of tries a fast talk me and I’m like Dude man I am actually pretty savvy with this stuff so settle down. We’re going to be negotiating. So you know I just like. I think I think sometimes there’s some stereotypes that are passed towards the women and the men who are trying to sell them life insurance or cars or whatever are don’t understand and basically stereotype the women that they may not know. So definitely it’s a it’s a great way to get the information from a peer too.

 

WCI: [00:36:26] Do you think men are the same. You think they want to learn from men?

 

Dr. Reynolds: [00:36:29] Oh gosh that’s a good question. I don’t know. I mean I definitely in my family my my husband really doesn’t want to have anything to do with us stuff so he’s happy to let me do it. But. But I don’t yeah I don’t know.

 

Dr. Reynolds: [00:36:46] I don’t know. I guess it’s just maybe the voices it’s coming through and how accessible it is so you know maybe the presentation of how I present it might be more accessible for someone who has zero knowledge. But. But either way you get the info the info is out there so there’s a lot of different ways to consume it.

 

WCI: [00:37:04] Let’s talk about site hustles for a minute. Do you think most doctors should have a side hustle. And if so why?

 

Dr. Reynolds: [00:37:10] So side hustles are interesting because I think a there’s this new gig economy you know where we have these like side gigs. If you talk if you are thinking about entrepreneurs in general you know people are talking about driving Uber or this or that. So side hustles, side gigs are not necessarily in the medical world. In my mind limited to earning money for a little bit extra on the side I just really think that it’s something that we should consider it. Like I said before if you’re not feeling fulfilled by your 7 to 6 job that you have then you know consider doing something on the side a project a mission trip. Service opportunities can all serve that same purpose. So if you’re not feeling fulfilled within your job then definitely consider doing something outside of it.

 

WCI: [00:37:54] You know I had a reader write in basically feeling guilty. This was a physician that was making eight hundred thousand dollars a year saving the majority of it investing it completely appropriately and feeling guilty because he didn’t have multiple streams of income.

 

Dr. Reynolds: [00:38:14] Oh that’s interesting.

 

WCI: [00:38:15] What advice would you give to that Doc that’s making a very good living and managing his money well but doesn’t have some other stream of income and doesn’t sound terribly interested in it?

 

Dr. Reynolds: [00:38:26] Oh my gosh that’s funny. It’s like that’s the pendulum has swung the other way. If he’s feeling fulfilled in his in his current career and he has everything he wants and I wouldn’t worry about it.

 

Dr. Reynolds: [00:38:35] I mean goodness as long as you’re planning for the future and you’re not letting life happen to you and reacting to life as it comes upon you in kind of a unthoughtful way then man you’re killing it. You can. You can do that.

 

WCI: [00:38:48] Yeah for sure. I mean the same boring. You know a strategy that I’ve been talking about on my blog for the last 7 years. You know go to work see the patients carve out 20 percent of your gross for retirement invested in retirement accounts. Put it in index funds and enjoy the rest of your life, it really does work.

 

WCI: [00:39:08] But I think with you know all these other options that we’re talking about in the blogosphere and on podcasts I think sometimes people start feeling bad like that plan doesn’t work like you have to buy you know investment real estate or you’re not going to be successful or you have to have a blog or you’re not going to be successful and I think you know I mean 90 percent of it you’ve already done by virtue of becoming a physician you just gotta get over the get over the goal line at this point.

 

Dr. Reynolds: [00:39:37] Yeah I mean your message is so applicable to people who want to achieve financial independence and understand that once you achieve financial dependence you have that FU money. You know you can walk if you need to walk if you need to take a little bit of time maybe do locums for a little bit curious reevaluating your your situation or you need to travel and do something a little bit different then come back into it. You have that that flexibility that freedom to do that so you know doing it the straight narrow for a little bit. Get those things paid off and be financially independent would work really well for people to try to avoid the burnout that they might get after they’ve been in practice for a number of years.

 

WCI: [00:40:15] You Know a lot of times doctors forget just how marketable they are just how valuable the skills they have are and they are worried what happens if I lose this job? Well the truth of matter is the classified ads in the back of your specialty jounral are six pages long. You know there’s people begging for you to come work for him yes you might go down five per cent or whatever. But the truth of the matter is most of us can walk out of our job today and within six months have a job that pays exactly the same and the only reason it takes six months because you’ve got to get credentialed. You’re right that it takes that long to line up the job or to start work and you know you can basically start tomorrow if it wasn’t for all the credentialling and licensing garbage.

 

Dr. Reynolds: [00:40:56] Oh my gosh I know and it’s like you’re not stuck even if you feel like you need to be close to family. If you go to some of these places and look for positions in some of these more rural places or places that are having a hard time recruiting you could work there. You could negotiate six weeks off instead of your standard four weeks. You could negotiate a pay raise so you can afford the nanny to help you out when you you know because you don’t have family nearby. You can outsource a little bit more because you don’t have family nearby. There are options and you are not stuck. You need to be flexible and optimistic that there are other choices for you.

 

WCI: [00:41:30] Let’s talk a little bit a little more of a personal question here for you. If your side hustle took off you know the Hippocratic hustle became this thing that was paying two or three hundred thousand dollars a year. It really started making a ton of money. How would that affect your career in medicine.

 

Dr. Reynolds: [00:41:46] OK first of all I would not be afraid to walk away from medicine if I if I so chose. At that time because again we are human beings and we are not married to our career even if we studied for so many years. If you’re doing something that is fulfilling for you and you know and is helpful to society who cares if you’re a physician or not so I have no qualms about encouraging people to do that. If it works out for them. The hard part about being a physician is you can’t leave for too long without people questioning things and credentials and getting a little bit sticky so you kind of have to still stay a little bit and engage so I don’t know what will happen if I ever have that opportunity. I think it would be hard to completely step away from it because it is something that I do love and I do enjoy. If I if someone told me You’ll never pick up an endoscopy scope again I think I would probably go cry because it’s so much fun for me to do. And I have a skill that so many people can’t do. So that will break my heart.

 

WCI: [00:42:45] That looked really fun to me in med school. I thought about GI for a long time because I wanted to drive Scope’s, looks very much fun. You know a fun video game.

 

Dr. Reynolds: [00:42:55] It is a video game that I get to play video games. It’s awesome. So but if someone told me I couldn’t do that I would be really really sad. But if I had something to turn to that was equally fulfilling and engaging and I mean I would have no qualms stepping away from medicine and I don’t feel guilty and I don’t want anybody else to feel guilty about that either.

 

WCI: [00:43:16] Now you recently have the physician on fire on the podcast who’s a member of the white coat investor network. I think we had him on this podcast a couple of episodes ago but that was the first male you’d had on your podcast. How come you had him on and what did you hope listeners would learn from him?

 

Dr. Reynolds: [00:43:31] Oh my gosh. Well I as I’ve gotten into this community obviously there are so many amazing men in this space who have a great story to tell and great information to to share with my listeners too. So I want to make sure that my women and my community aren’t missing out on that message. So definitely physician on fire was an amazing guest. Super fun to talk to him and and he has so much to share with us along with some other male guests. I just had Nii Darco on a more recent episode so that was really fun and I. Jim you are welcome to come on. That’s my open invitation.

 

WCI: [00:44:13] I’m not sure I got an open invitation the first time we met did I?

 

Dr. Reynolds: [00:44:18] I was I know I know when I first started I was like this is going to be all women you know this is no. Guys can’t come on. But it’s definitely I’ve softened that perspective a little bit and have. I’m going to allow my guy friends because I definitely have a lot of super duper smart guy friends out there who have great information to share to my listeners and so I want them to have access to that too. And believe me I share your website with anybody who will listen. Because it’s it’s great it’s amazing resource absolutely amazing.

 

WCI: [00:44:52] Now you have quite a few guys listening to your podcast as well have you ever done a survey or looked at the data to see what the percentages are?

 

Dr. Reynolds: [00:44:58] I have not yet done that but I think my month off that I have here I think that would be a good idea.

 

WCI: [00:45:03] It wouldn’t surprise me a bit if ten or 25 percent of your listeners were guys just because so much of the information I mean it’s like anything you know so much of it is applicable to everybody. It’s like personal finance for doctors. Doctors think they are special and they want something geared right to them but the truth is ninety five percent of it’s the same for all of us you know.

 

WCI: [00:45:21] Yeah. So that wouldn’t surprise me a bit. Well what else would you like our listeners to know anything we haven’t covered today that you think is important for them to get that they’re not getting on my podcast.

 

Dr. Reynolds: [00:45:33] Well I think overall my podcast is encouraging women to make good choices with their money to educate them about all the opportunities that they have with personal finance to encourage them to live life creatively and on their own terms. Yeah I mean overall I just want to be able to connect with my listeners and to share what I wish I had known when I graduated. So from residency I wish I had known all this stuff I wish I had your book. Oh my gosh. Yeah right. And definitely I give your book out to all my students that I had rotating through with me so. And they were so appreciative to hear that message too. So I think we have a lot of people Jim to educate out there. So I think we have our work cut out for us.

 

WCI: [00:46:21] Well thank you so much for coming on the podcast. It’s been great having you here.

 

Dr. Reynolds: [00:46:25] Thank you so much for having me. So much fun talking to you.

 

WCI: [00:46:28] For those who want to learn more about Dr. Carrie Reynolds and her work go to Hippocratic hustle dot com.

 

WCI: [00:46:34] Well that was a great interview with Dr. Reynolds I hope you guys enjoyed that. This episode was sponsored by our friends Zoe financial. Finding a reputable financial adviser can be difficult and even more difficult to find an adviser you personally connect with. That also specializes in the areas where you need help like taxes diversify and investments or just budgeting. That’s where Zoe Fin dot com comes in. They have developed an algorithm that matches you with an adviser based on your unique life stage and goals. All of the advisers in Zoe’s network are independent accredited fee only fiduciaries. And amazingly this means Zoe rejects 95 percent of the advisers they interview. So you don’t have to waste time with salespeople. Visit Zoe Fin dot com slash Whitecoat to take their quiz and schedule your free call today. That’s Zoe fin dot com slash white coat.

 

WCI: [00:47:20] Be sure you’re following us on Facebook and be sure to check out our youtube channel as well. We’re trying to get more and more material up there every day. Head up shoulders back. You’ve got this and we’re here to help.

 

Disclaimer: [00:47:30] My dad. Your host Dr. Dahle is a practicing Emergency Physician blogger author and podcasters. He’s not a licensed accountant attorney or financial advisor. So this practice is for your entertainment information only. This should not be considered official personalized financial advice.