By Dr. Jim Dahle, WCI FounderI really love blogging. As WCI grows into a multi-media business, I spend more and more of my time working on the business—training staff, building partnerships, dealing with endless emails, promoting the business, creating and implementing new “products,” and troubleshooting problems. It's fun to be an entrepreneur, create jobs, and try to build something bigger than yourself. But sometimes I miss blogging. Just typing some random crap into the internet and wondering if anyone else is going to read it or like it or implement it. So today I just want to sit down and write something. I don't care if you like it. I don't care if you share it with anyone or not. I don't care if it ever monetizes well. I just want to blog about something and see what you think of it.
Money Taboos
There is a taboo in medicine. It is becoming less prominent, but it still exists. You're not supposed to talk about money. Not how much something costs a patient, not how much you get paid, not how you invest, and certainly not about the freedom from medicine that financial independence can bring.
This first shows up as you are applying to medical school. You don't want anyone writing a letter of recommendation or heaven forbid an admissions committee to get even a whiff of an idea that you might actually want to receive a paycheck for practicing medicine at some point down the road. It is reinforced throughout medical school and residency and persists throughout your career in interactions with your peers, your professional colleges, your board certification organization charging you thousands to take an online test, and your hospital.
Meanwhile, the business world and particularly the financial services world views you as a whale, ready to be harpooned. And all these little doctors in their own little silos who “love science and just want to help people” are taken advantage of one by one. It pisses me off.
But you want to know what makes me even madder? When I see doctors “money-shaming” each other. Reinforcing this taboo that you can't talk about or even learn about business or finance because it's “filthy, dirty money” and you're a “bad doctor” to think about it. Let me give you an example.
PIMD Gets Money-Shamed
Passive Income MD wrote a blog post a while back about how he is financially free from medicine. I read the post and thought, “That's great. Now he can practice medicine if and how he likes. He'll be a better doctor and take better care of people. Or, if he wants, he can get out of medicine and do something else that he finds more fulfilling. If he practices less or stops altogether, it allows the services of other doctors to be more in demand, keeping salaries high for everyone. How wonderful!”
Well, his post gets picked up by Doximity and shared. That's wonderful too. I love it when my stuff gets shared with a larger audience, and I'm sure PIMD does too. There really is (almost) no such thing as bad publicity in this business. So I saw it in the email that Doximity sends out every now and then and took a look at some of the comments below his post. Most were very supportive, until I ran into one written by a psychiatrist, published under his real name (which I'll leave out as it really isn't relevant to my point).
Why did you go into medicine in the first place? It sounds like to get rich. Congratulations. Patients were a lousy revenue stream, too much maintenance. So you are free from an opportunity to do work that actually relieves suffering, and if you are half-as clever financially as you claim to be, you could have made a good living at. You are free from having to do the hard work of medicine. After practicing for 40 years, I still value using my competence to lighten the burden of disease on my fellow human beings, more than the fact I make a good salary doing so. You could have made more money if you had started with an MBA and a Law degree, and skipped the fake wanting to practice medicine. You are free from medicine, from hard work, from dealing with truly heavy responsibilities. Your narcissism is normative in American society. You are free giving, and free to take all you want. Enjoy! You exploited the profession, and now you can live the hedonism that is the core of your value system.
Hey kids! Get off my lawn! Seriously though, other doctors read this comment and say to themselves, “Self, be sure you don't talk about money or financial independence to any of your colleagues because some of them are going to react like this.”
To the psychiatrist's credit, he returned later down in the comments section and left a bit of an apology and a more nuanced, less inflammatory explanation of his views on the subject.
Stop Money-Shaming!
I call this sort of thing “Money-Shaming,” and I want you to quit doing it. Some of us are more altruistic than others. That's always been the case. And there is someone more altruistic than you are. You're a family doc working for $180K? Great. There's a classmate down the road who is a pediatrician making $150K. And one who went into the military and worked for $120K while being deployed all over the world taking care of those defending your freedom. And someone else who works 3 days a week in the homeless clinic for a pittance. And someone who spends their vacation time in Colombia drilling wells for mountainous villages.
But the truth of the matter is that VERY FEW of us are willing to practice medicine for free. Especially on a full-time basis. In fact, it turns out that MOST of us wouldn't be practicing as much as we do now if it wasn't for the money. I have surveyed many groups I have talked to. I ask them if they'd report to work tomorrow if I wrote them a check for $10 Million today. They almost all say yes. But when I ask them if they'd be working less in a year (fewer shifts, shorter days, fewer patients per day, less call, etc.), they almost all raise their hand. My conclusion? Most doctors are working, at least partially, for financial reasons.
Why should that be a surprise? And why would it be a bad thing? Adam Smith pointed out centuries ago that, in general, we benefit each other and society as a whole as we pursue our own self-interest. That's capitalism. And it has led to the greatest increase in freedom, wealth, and humanity that this planet has ever seen. Nurses get paid. Teachers get paid. Garbagemen get paid. Judges get paid. Politicians get paid. Uber drivers get paid. That doesn't diminish the value of the work they do. There's a reason it's called “work”—because they have to pay you to do it.
In fact, I would argue that the MOST selfless and altruistic doctors among us are the ones who are financially independent and still practicing because they love it. I would love to shorten the average time period between when a doctor comes out of residency and when they can practice merely because they love it. But even then, I don't expect them to work for free.
Celebrate the Financial Success of Your Colleagues
So my challenge to you is that rather than money-shaming your colleagues, you celebrate their successes. What a difference between going to FinCon (a conference of financial bloggers where you are invited to give a talk and everyone celebrates your achievement because you doubled your income) and a medical conference (where financial or business topics are generally given short shrift)!
When we start talking about paying off our student loans and our mortgages and avoiding whole life insurance and becoming millionaires and becoming financially independent then we'll all, doctors and patients alike, be better off. If nothing else, at least a lot of salesmen masquerading as financial advisors will be driven out of business.
What do you think? Why do we money-shame each other? Is it jealousy? Is it a desire to preserve the purity of “the greatest profession?” Is it simply doing what others before us have done?
Money shaming is a problem for Australian doctors as well. Here, many doctors split their time as “visiting medical officers” in both private and public hospitals. Private work is much better paid. Public hospital positions can offer kudos and academic involvement but I often find the public hospital wants more of my time for less or no money and that there is a culture of money-shaming (mainly from other doctors) around this. “It is your life-long duty to give back to the public system that trained you” ..
Welcome to our Aussie visitors!
The money taboo isn’t unique to medicine, but goes a long way to understanding why $500K in school loans is becoming acceptable.
If you’re going to be rich in 10-15 years (joking here), who cares about saving a few bucks in student loans. After enough financial conversations with friends and family, I now understand most people wildly overestimate how much their peers earn (or will ever earn) vs. reality. That basic misperception drives a lot of poor decisions when it comes to personal finance.
I think that Doximity article was the last time I read any comments on that site until the recent post with Physician on Fire haha. I’ll be honest, they did bother me a bit, but you learn to develop some thicker skin the more you put yourself out there.
At the end of the day, my goal isn’t to leave medicine or to encourage others to leave medicine. It’s to help physicians practice medicine on their own terms, which I believe is the key to having a happy, fulfilled career. Then ultimately it should lead to happy, healthier patients. Well, that’s the way I see it in my head but unfortunately it doesn’t always come across like that in a random article.
Thanks for the post, Jim, and so appreciative of the support from this community. It definitely drowns out the negativity which is why I’m still going…
“Why should that be a surprise? And why would it be a bad thing? Adam Smith pointed out centuries ago that, in general, we benefit each other and society as a whole as we pursue our own self-interest. ”
“Charlotte’s Web Is Full of Economic Wisdom”
“As much as economists love Adam Smith, Charlotte’s Web is a better way for kids to learn basic economic truths.”
https://fee.org/articles/charlottes-web-is-full-of-economic-wisdom/
Interesting comparison. Lots of lessons in places you might not expect them. Consider this post:
https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/11-financial-lessons-greatest-showman/
Bravo to WCI for trying to change the culture of money for young physicians!
Older physicians (like me) do not fully appreciate that not having truthful and open discussions about money is not merely an academic discussion point.
Because physicians as a group have been reticent to “take charge” of their money issues, and are almost embarrassed by the money they make – others (government,hospitals, insurance, administrators) have been only too happy to manage their money for them. This passivity has been a major factor in the constant declining income to physicians over the last several decades. It has been a very heavy price to pay, and a poor legacy to leave our younger trainees….
Finally, as JBME points out the subject of salary is always awkward in interviews for physician employment. However much you may criticize the federal government I have always appreciated that they are unique in posting a specific salary ( or range) on their VA jobs. This eliminates gamesmanship about salary, and those who don’t feel that the salary is appropriate for the position do not even apply.
As a psychiatrist myself, I would say that psychiatrist also is missing the bigger picture of what their job is via the shaming. So from another psychiatrist (very early career but post residency) I want to saw thank you to the WCI network, you have changed my life with your articles for the better. I hope one day very soon to reach percieved the freedom of choice that having FI provides. For me its the dream of pursuing to be a psychoanalyst, working part time , and focusing on raising a family and having time to do that. There also was another doctors blogger post recently referenced by POF about how FI can mitigate provider burnout- a growing epidemic in our overly administrative growing burden.
Again thank you WCI team, and to other similar bloggers.
-A Psychiatirst
Absolutely correct. If I could see less patients I could spend more time with them and feel more like I’m making a difference. But because of the way we are paid we must see too many patients with little time to give them. That leads to burnout and bad patient relationships. We need to earn a living. It is no shame to decide at any point you may want to do something else with your life. It’s better for patients too if your hearts no longer in it. This whole medicine is a calling thing is a farce. It’s a profession like anything else. The bonus is we take care of People and hopefully make a difference in their life. We are human not G-d and can change our minds anytime.
Amen.
Absolutely right. Tried to help some colleagues but instead I turned out to be a bad guy for talking about money. Sorry, cant help them anymore as they chose to suffer at their job every day and choose not to do anything about their FI.
Its gone to extent that they dont want to talk about their salaries and employers definitely take advantage of that.
Take 3 (trial of posting this)
So as a psychiatrist I first want to say thank you to the whole WCI team (and other FI bloggers MMM/milrev). WCI you have changed lives both via quality of life, view points, hope etc.; and you have changed mine. It is a little discouraging to see such negative words from another psychiatrist; in their hasty reaction/thought shown in their words it demonstrates the common narcissism of doctors thinking they are/need to be more than human/ different from society, but the reality is doctors are human. Having FI thus opens opportunity. My personal goals (mind you I am a very early career psychiatrist-yet post residency, with mil time debt and med school loan debt-do not ask how that happened) is to pursue being a psychoanalyst, work part time, spend time with family exploring the world and its wonders (my passion is the outdoors but I do like –part of–my job), and of course work on the WCI team (I can fantasize right?). But the reality is getting to FI would give me the perception of the freedom to try to merge my love for the outdoors and psychiatry, it would provide space for intellectual creativity. (which works well for most people, except Elon Musk where his recent interviews demonstrate the importance of taking vacations.)
It would also provide physicians at whole decreased burnout rates which are plaguing medicine ~50% (statistically effecting more our younger docs), as our administrative burden increases and our control withers away. Until doctors find a way to gain that sense of control back (which FI adds to), this will only increase in magnitude. (along with drug abuse rates/suicide rates/divorce rates etc)
So from one psychiatrist to a ER doc and two anesthesiologists… Thank you for impacting my life and others in such a meaningful way.
-Psyched4FI (I think that is going to be my new incognito name)
Since these did not post right away, and this one above (the long one) now at least says awaiting moderation…can you delete the others and just keep this one?
Thanks
They were in the automated spam folder. I have no idea why. I deleted the ones you requested.
You’re welcome.
What do you fantasize doing at WCI?
I state it in some jest, but I would also believe a large portion of your readers have played around with at least the idea of such. WCI is akin to the TPG, except related to the smaller niche of physician finances vs points travel; however your target population has more potential wealth (comparison made as business model options where more people work for WCI could exist).
That said as we are speaking of money shaming and physician culture. I think you have a large enough audience to make a shift in culture. Imagine if in medical school and residency there were lectures already created and shared on the topic of physicians getting a “fair shake on Wall Street ” (my program director would have been all for that, he pushed and modeled FI). Where it is less of keeping up with the Joneses and more of the millionaire next door mentality at least presented as an option. Where the discussion of money is an open topic. Other areas such as more mainstream Ted Talks. I know about 2 years back you gave a talk to a locums group I believe orthopods, what if that was done more (not going to lie I was super jealous of that group that had that opportunity when the locums team was talking about it). What if there were WCI talks at large national conferences (minus the whole how to have that count toward CMEs)…but physician burnout is on the rise thus I think it can be swung from that angle for CMEs. And maybe even the very bold topic of “Money Shaming” could be the name of a lecture at a national conference, maybe perfect for psychiatrists to even discuss the psychological dynamics of it along with medicine’s burn out culture. There has been a numerical escalation on research articles of recent regarding burnout, the APA even has a ”Call to action” and ”ambassadors” regarding it and I believe I also went through some AMA power points as well. I am going to stop rambling on about that part now I think you get my drift.
Then what about the mentor potential. There are so many very early career physicians (post-residency) that could benefit from mentorship in aspects that WCI represents.
Darn guess I didn’t pass that job interview. I will try again in a year. 🙂
I will leave out the TPG comparison next time, as his mistake was selling his business in my opinion.
Psyched4FI, Dr Dahle is out of town and I’m just looking at this problem. No one was moderating the posts so I’m not sure what has been going on but I’ll check it out. — Jill, Assistant Editor WCI
Hi Jill, Can I ask you to delete comment #28, that was the first one I wrote that wouldn’t post (thought it was a glitch), then I rewrote it and changed names to this. I sent a contact message with the same request but then got an email back saying you all are swamped with emails– so thought since you already commented here that this might be faster.
thanks
I’m back. There is some automated screening of comments to try to keep the spam out. I’ll look for yours in the trash and spam folders and pull them out if I find them.
Agree the negative reaction of the psychiatrist to POF is just way off base and ignorant of what that doc has likely already accomplished. That some docs (I’ll be one) will retire earlier than others doesn’t negate the amazing and lifesaving work they’ve already done in their careers. And perhaps being up-close to tragedy and death at times makes us appreciate even more than non-docs the fleeting gift of a healthy, happy life, and that we must enjoy it while we can. No apologies for making money, or retiring when the time is right for the individual.
So many good comments. Great post by WCI
I am glad to see the other psychiatrists speaking up too. Maybe that doximity doc was just a curmudgeon as the ones speaking here are much his junior.
Maybe he has lost touch with what it means to see the fragility of life in the same light as some other specialties. Not to take anything away from the rigors of psyche as the burnout there is a different beast and a chronic drip of stress. In the ED, OR and ICUs the acuity of pain and suffering and the high stakes and massive turnover and administrative burden, should make it totally understandable when someone doesn’t want to grind for 35+ years. As the saying goes, this isn’t your fathers root beer any more. It’s a different animal that will need to be addressed if this frameshift continues along this path.
This was once dropped into the comments section of a former post:
“He who takes offense when no offense is intended is a fool, and he who takes offense when offense is intended is a greater fool.” -Brigham Young
Equally applicable here.
I personally think people “money-shame” because 1) they themselves have made numerous poor financial decisions in their lives, 2) they are jealous of others’ financial successes, 3) they are ignorant of the concept of FIRE and why we do what we do, and lastly 4) they simply don’t like their lives so they have a negative outlook on everyone else’s achievements. As Dave Ramsey puts it, “You gotta want to be weird. It’s okay to be weird.” Being weird about money and seeking FIRE should be okay, but it is “weird” simply because as a society we are taught to be in debt and stay in debt. Once “we” see those around us not be in debt, we think there is something wrong with them or they simply got “lucky” with money. They fail to see all the intentional sacrifices, hard-work, dedication, and persistence to achieve the goal of being free from debt and calling the shots in one’s financial life. I commend you for bringing this up, Dr. Dahle.
Will you be attending #FinCon18 this month by any chance?
Ed
Have encountered this multiple times from friends in medicine actually. Usually in the #1 and 2 category. My buds in psychiatry, family med, and PMR regularly give me crap about how much I make as if I am a sell-out that doesn’t care about patients. I always reiterate that I earn every cent through either tough shifts/call and risk I take on due to acuity. They still think I make too much and have too much vacation. I tell them they need to work on their game 🙂
Great comment.
No, I won’t be a FinCon this year. I’m too busy with spending 12 days at Lake Powell and then getting PADI certified in preparation for an upcoming trip to Maui. But thanks for the guilt trip that I should be working harder on my business. 🙂
Seriously though, PoF and a number of other physician financial bloggers/podcasters will be there this year.
There are the spoken and the unspoken issues at play here. WCI got it right regarding money shaming, the spoken issue. Doctors have no obligation to be more altruistic than the general public. It is solely the choice of the doctor to decide where on the altruism/selfishness scale they fall.
The unspoken issue is the role of government in health care; much too big a topic to be fully discussed here. Suffice it to say that the logical result from increasing government control of health care is reduction in compensation to doctors. As Loonie Doctor states, shaming doctors in Canada to justify cutting their fees is totally wrong. Having said that, the greater the role of the government in health care, the greater will be its right to control (reduce) such fees.
I will not enter the fray of the proper scope of government in US health care. There are plenty of options to consider since every wealthy, industrialized nation on earth, including the US, operates some form of publicly funded health care.
How much do you want to bet the government approach would be :
All doctors should make the same and it should be lower.
At least that’s the starting premise or leaning.
No communism. No money-shaming.
Capitalism must be a high priority for any system of universal health care.
Money shaming is of course not right. But. . .
Many of the posts from WCI, POF, and PIMD all talk about the financial side of things (well, duh, they are financial sites) and don’t talk about caring for patients. And many times it’s “Make more money so you don’t have to work as much”. Which means that you are, of course, helping less patients. And I’m not saying that we all need to work 80 hours a week for 40 years so we can help the absolute most patients possible, but hopefully you sort of see the point.
POF got a lot of pushback on his business insider post because regular readers (i.e. non high income professionals) don’t make much money. No one who makes $40k a year is going to be impressed with someone retiring in 10-15 years on a $400k income or “only” spending $60k a year when they wrote 6-figure check for their mortgage. I’m not saying that their comments were appropriate, because they weren’t. I am sort of glad they sent them because POF’s twitter responses to them were comedic gold.
You’re right that these blogs are about physician finances, not patient care. I’ll bet there aren’t even 5 posts on this blog that could be construed as being about patient care. That’s okay. I can’t be all things to all people. A focused mission can be accomplished.
I pursued my career (pharmacist) because it was a seemingly stable way to a high earning career. There really were no extra reasons that are typically given at school or residency interviews (interest in chemistry, biology, desire to help people, etc.), the money was the reason.
I’m curious – if this is the case for you – how comfortable are you saying that you got into your profession for the money? Saying it to friends/family, saying it to coworkers, saying it in a job interview?
I think I have come around to being able to say it, but only in limited circumstances where I feel comfortable and don’t want to be shamed.
Better be careful when/where you use that level of honesty!
This is a great and important post. But I think this is not a phenomenon specific to medicine. It is part of human nature and human society. Since Ancient Greece the wise and selective hedonists such as the epicureans have been shamed by the idealists like the platonists and stoics. One group that says your life is for you to live for yourself, another that shames you into believing that your life is for others. Only problem for the latter idealists is that the former group understands the path to human happiness better. This struggle will continue to be a part of human societies.
That’s deep. Like jejunum deep as ZDoggMD/Rob Orman would say. I think you’re right though.
Hey WCI!
I saw this article thanks to Looniedoctor! Interesting. Well boys, ya gotta have a thick skin if you want to be out there. (I am sure you guys all do since you have even chosen to not be anonymous).
I will always be anonymous.
Anyhow, I went into Medicine thinking doctors made 30K. I seriously have zero idea how much they made. But I lived on 10-12 K a year during university so 30k would have been a good amount.
We also have been financially independent for a very long time. And my husband, who is a surgeon, happily works fulltime and does not plan to stop . But I pretty much stopped working for a decade. We do what works for our family. (And sorry, Medicine comes second to that.)
To each his own. Live your life and perhaps have a good look at what you want. Many of us blogging can only show you what we have done. Money and it’s permutations are too complicated to boil down to
“making money is bad, not making money is good”.
For those who want to discourage others along their path, you might want to use that energy to work on yourself instead.
And for all of us doctors, it’s not like we DON’T know that there are plenty of d-bags in Medicine. How is any of this a surprise?
The point that seems to be missing here is that pure capitalism, which applies to most business in the US, is not, and cannot be applicable to health care. A purely capitalist approach would leave much of the population with little or no health care. It is unrealistic to expect that money-shaming or similar approaches should, or could effectively, fill the gap. Bottom line: doctors and the health care industry must negotiate fees with the government, which is the representative of all the people. The government wields a very strong hand, which may seem tantamount to control. Every wealthy industrialized nation on earth, except the US, has sorted this out and adopted some form of universal health care. Apparently, Canada and Australia still rely on money-shaming to augment this control; that is wrong.
Come on, all – the derision and self-congratulatory posts here are no better than the original. As a middle-aged primary care doc, I too find some things to be concerned about when I see the group mentality of glorifying earning as much as you can early on to achieve financial independence and then celebrating the idea of “retire early”. What any of us who disagree with this movement are disagreeing with is NOT anyone’s personal right to do whatever the heck they want! Of course we all have that right. What we are disagreeing with or voicing concern is the glorification or celebration of this attitude and putting it out as a very reasonable and even positive thing to do. For jobs that are slow turnaround – meaning for society as a whole, it takes quite a few years and resources to churn out a qualified doctor, and especially for jobs that serve a life-sustaining function, society as a whole, needs to consider implications. This is not “money shaming”, as if doctors don’t like to talk about money. We are fine talking about money. We all know that certain surgical subspecialties make a TON of money – great! We all understood that back in medical school and all made our own choices. Each doctor’s personal motivation is also not the issue – and I don’t agree at all that doctors who are financially independent make better doctors. Some basic points – I would not call stopping work at 39 y/o “retiring early” – I call that stopping work early, or mid-career shift, etc. “Retiring” suggests some degree of longevity in your field and is somewhat the reward and end. Also, professionals get better with time! A 50 year old doctor likely much more cost effective and just better overall due to years of experience – that counts. As a citizen of this country, I feel better knowing I likely will be cared for by some mid/later career docs as opposed to a bunch of 39 year olds. I’d also rather fly in airplanes piloted by seasoned pilots rather than having pilot turnover be super high (i.e. they all try to fly as much as they can early on and get out by the time they’re 39 or 40). I hope you get my points as I admit this is not the more organized response. I don’t see the original emailer as angry or jealous – just voicing these concerns in a somewhat different way. And if you don’t agree, fine – there is never one “right” answer. All we ask is that you consider these other points and as a profession, we may not all celebrate the same ideals. And if money and money-shaming were all it was, I also observe that I don’t see that many high-earner docs jumping on the FIRE bandwagon – do we see many CT or orthopedic surgeons touting FIRE? How many FIRE-touting docs are neurosurgeons, CT surgeons, orthopedic surgeons, plastic surgeons? More often seems highly focused on anesthesiology for some reason; primary care as well. Has anyone looked at that? (this point I really have no idea, but think it would be an interesting survey on the FIRE sites)
Retirement and financial independence are “squishy” concepts
https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/retirement-is-squishy/
but you sound a little like the internet retirement police.
https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/02/13/mr-money-mustache-vs-the-internet-retirement-police/
It’s interesting when you survey patients about how old they want their doctors to be, the answer comes back as “40,” not that different from the 39 year old doc you deride. I guess they think younger than 40 doesn’t have enough experience and older than 40 has forgotten what they learned in school/residency.
I disagree with you that what the doctor who posted that comment that launched this post was somehow just disagreeing with the idea of the glorification of early retirement. I mean, look at the phrasing:
That’s hardly expressing a slightly different point of view. It’s an attack. It’s “money-shaming.”
At any rate, my neighbor told me today that his goal is to have my life. How is my life any different from him? We both live on the same street, attend the same church, do the same volunteer activities, enjoy similar recreational pursuits, are married with four kids, and have high income professional jobs and are about the same age. What’s the difference? I don’t have to work and he does. That’s what is being celebrated, and I think that’s just fine.
WCI – wow! First, I did not deride anyone! I simply stated that 39 did not strike me as an age that qualified for “retirement”. Simply voiced another opinion. The FIRE community seems rather thin skinned on this particular issue. And from personal experience, I in no way would see 40 y/o as the “sweet spot” of practicing medicine (patient opinion poll notwithstanding ).
Many of these concepts are things women have been discussing and dealing with for decades; it’s just newer to male physicians (I know, I know – there are plenty of women FIRE proponents!). I cut back to part time as soon as I had kids and have remained so. (I’ve written posts encouraging other female physicians to consider PT vs quitting completely on various FB groups). Women have been changing careers as the needs of their families change. I switched out of practicing office-based medicine to work in a clinical research organization for 4 years when my children were very young, but then went back to clinical medicine when the limited role I had in that organization became boring. And many of my non-physician mom friends have not worked while raising their kids and are now looking to get back into the work force 18 years later (and that’s not easy!).
I fully realize that my husband working full-time has given me the flexibility to make these changes and I appreciate that freedom. Which is exactly what I think you are looking for and encouraging (the primary breadwinner also having this freedom). Which I absolutely have no problem with! My only concern and some sense of unease is with the attitude of clear FIRE – work as hard as you can, maximize your earnings/savings with the clear intent of just getting out of the practice of medicine completely as soon as feasible. I don’t have concerns on a person by person basis – to each his own. The concern voiced is just about the “movement”.
My comments were referring to why I was calling what the psychiatrist did money shaming, not what you did money shaming. Sorry if that wasn’t clear.
Absolutely the freedom you describe is what I am encouraging.
We mentioned this in January in our podcast, and it will take at least 5 more years until we can get rid of this stigma. I feel that as more and more young grads show up, sadly displaying their student loan burden, that “step one” can happen.
Is the emergency physician lounge the first place to break the taboo? The main doctor’s lounge? The resident lounge?
Excellent point well-taken. Your words resonate with me. I, too, am pissed off by our physician peers espousing this foolishness of what you call “money-shaming.” I see it more as drinking the Kool-Aid that’s been poured down their throats by our society that believes in the most expensive health care for ALL, that spends TWICE as much %GDP on healthcare compared to the next highest country IN THE WORLD, and that believes, in the spirit of true contradiction, that the practive of medicine should have NO basis in things monetary!!! This is the depiction of an industry in financial ruin. Oh well, at least it’s just our healthcare and not something important, like our entertainment!
I believe that major reasons why physicians “money shame” are discontentment, self-righteousness and jealousy. When individuals are content with ,and focused on, their own situations they don’t have time, or the desire, to shame and judge others. Too many people meddling in the affairs of others… Just my opinion.
Good post. I think money shaming does come from jealousy. Like most diatribes, they originate from someone else’s pain. I think people are still learning how to be happy for other’s success. It’s not a zero sum game. When you are successful, it makes us all successful.
No physician should ever talk trash about another physician’s wealth or conspicuous consumption.
Each should sigh and be jealous thinking of the really lucrative career opportunities missed.
Talking heads on cable bank about $30,000,000 per year. RIP, enjoy the fruits of your labor.
Dr Phil makes around $88,000,000 per year.
Not bad for a psychologist. Geez!