
If you read a lot of FIRE blogs, it might seem bizarre to you that anyone would work once they were financially independent. Although the bloggers themselves will often discuss how FI can be totally separate from RE, when you get into the comments or the forums it becomes quite clear that many Americans are just waiting to hit their number before punching entirely out of their jobs for good.
Why Work Beyond FI?
There are several reasons why someone might work beyond financial independence. The most commonly trotted out ones are
- They really love what they do or
- They would be bored without their job.
These two reasons are all fine and good. It's your life, do what you want.
Are There “Bad Reasons” to Work Beyond FI?
A third reason that nobody ever seems to want to discuss is that they simply want to spend more money. Sure, you could live just fine for the rest of your life on $50K/year (or $100K, or $400K, whatever), but if you kept earning, you could live in an even nicer house, churn even nicer cars, have a nicer boat, and go on nicer vacations. Maybe they just want to be able to spend without thinking or budgeting; i.e. it's easier to just keep working than do the work to manage the money better. Or perhaps they treat money like a security blanket. They figure if they feel secure with $4 Million they will feel even more secure with $6 Million. Maybe people don't want to talk about that because it makes them feel guilty or they are worried they would look bad to reveal that is their reason to still be working.
Moral Reasons to Work
However, what I want to talk about today is a fourth and a fifth reason, both of which have one thing in common–morality. Is it morally, ethically, and/or religiously correct to work less than you can when additional work will produce so many benefits to the world, both from the work itself (reason number four) and by using the money earned from work to do good (reason number five).
Now, if you are a moral relativist (whatever you feel is right is right) without any belief in any kind of a supreme being, these issues may not bother you in the least. After all, you only get your 6-10 decades on this sphere and you might as well use them as best you can to eat, drink, and be merry. As we often say in the ED at about 5:30 in the morning, “That's a day shift problem” (i.e. something for someone else to worry about.) For the rest of us, these two issues may matter more than the top three combined when it comes to working after FI.
Helping Others Through Your Work
Let's look at reason #4 first:
It is morally wrong to not use the talent, ability, opportunity, and knowledge you have to help your fellow man.
Where does this sort of idea come from? Who knows, but at a minimum it was taught by Jesus Christ in the Parable of the Talents:
For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods. And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.
Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents. And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two. But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord’s money.
After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them. And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more. His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord. He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them. His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed: And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine. His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed: Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents. For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath. And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Most high-income professionals who read this site are doctors, lawyers, business owners, and others who are highly talented and knowledgeable. That's why they get paid the big bucks. Of course, they also get paid the big bucks because their jobs are stressful, hard, and involve significant liability — all factors which may lead them to wish to cut back and/or retire early. But their work has significant benefits for society at large. How many arteries that should be stented are not because a cardiologist went part-time or retired early? How many cancers are missed because a talented body CT specialist hung up her monitor? How many life-improving products or services never spread around the world because the business owner decided he had “enough” at 51?
Now, obviously, if you carry out this sort of thinking to its logical extreme, it becomes nuts. While it might be morally wrong not to operate on an emergent patient to go to your kid's birthday party, it is also probably morally wrong to miss all of those parties. It's probably morally wrong to compel someone to work in a career they hate or to shame them for cutting back or leaving a career that is a bad fit for them. It's often a balancing game–it's wrong to neglect your patients but also wrong to neglect your partner. But to retire at 50 to “spend more time with my kids” who are in school 35 hours a week and will be out of the home in a couple of years anyway? Maybe you ought to think twice about that.
I don't pretend to have all the answers here, but I think the questions are worth spending some time on if you are in the fortunate position of being able to cut back or even retire completely while still physically and emotionally able to serve others.Helping Others with Your Earnings
Now let's talk about reason #5, the real purpose of this post:
It is morally wrong to not earn the money that could really help your fellow man.
Once you have enough money for yourself, including any additional spending you do just because you can, you are left with a dilemma of what to do with that money. One of two things is going to happen with it eventually–it will either be given away while you live or after you die. But your hearse will not have a trailer hitch.
Stewardship Responsibility
Most of the people reading this blog post already or soon will earn a lot of money. Probably at least $100,000 per year and often $1 Million or more. There is a lot of good that can be done with that money. The pressure to be a good steward of it can be astounding. We gave some money away to a family member in need a while ago. That person wondered how best to use it. It was wonderful to be able to say, “That's your problem now. I have passed on the stewardship responsibility for that money to you.”
Giving Earnings to Charity
Consider a doctor making $600K a year who is truly already financially independent. Maybe 1/3 of that goes to taxes, leaving $400,000 per year. She can do one of two things — earn less or use that $400,000 to do good. In Niger, malaria is responsible for 30% of all illnesses and 50% of all deaths. Its incidence can be dramatically reduced by the use of mosquito nets, which cost $4-5 apiece delivered and installed. That $400,000 could buy 100,000 mosquito nets. How many cases of malaria could be prevented with that $400,000? Certainly thousands and maybe tens of thousands. What kind of a jerk are you that you would rather sit around and play Super Mario Brothers with your kid than save thousands of Nigerien children from certain death?
The Benefits of Taxes
And why ignore the taxes? Your willingness to work and pay taxes allows the government to provide more services than it would otherwise be able to. A stronger military, better roads, expanded Medicaid and food stamps, and more environmental protection. Thank you, early retiree, for making our nation just a little bit weaker, our children just a little bit hungrier, and our water just a little bit dirtier.
Helping Family
Even avoiding these sorts of extreme ideas, think about your own extended family. You can work for just a month and give what you earned to a family member and essentially double their standard of living. You could buy them a car or pay off their medical bills. And how about your own children. Instead of having $80K for their college so they could get their undergraduate degree without debt, maybe if you would work a little longer they can now have $400K, and graduate debt-free from dental school. If you work 5 more years, maybe your kids never have to work at all and can then spend their lives creating incredible art or installing mosquito nets in Niger.
The possibilities are endless, and they're all paid for by you continuing to work after financial independence. Obviously there is risk here of giving someone too much. The Millionaire Next Door was careful to warn about the effects of “Economic Outpatient Care.” Sometimes giving money can do more harm than good (although I wonder how often that fear is used to justify miserly behavior.)
Things become even “worse” if you become financially successful doing something in addition to medicine. Imagine you're a real estate gal with 200 paid-for “doors.” 20 doors probably cover your living expenses for the rest of your life. 40 gives you a luxurious life. What are you going to do with the rest? And that doesn't include the people your business is serving. Think of how much discounted rent you can give to people in need. Think of how many people that would be homeless in your community no longer are because you developed that property, increasing the supply and lowering the cost of housing in your community? Or what if you developed a successful business helping doctors stop doing dumb stuff with their money? If you quit, maybe thousands of doctor families will never become financially literate, in turn preventing them from being able to use their excess money to improve the lives of dozens of others.
A few months ago I was really feeling some WCI Burnout and wanting to just walk away and spend my days between shifts skiing, climbing, and playing video games. Then I sat down and thought about what that would mean. Over 2.7 Million people came by this website in 2019. If I made just a $10,000 difference in the lives of just 1% of them, I may have just paid for 68 million headnets. Put in those terms, it seems morally wrong to quit. If you really did go into medicine (or business or whatever) to help people, why would you stop doing so right when you get to the point of being able to help the most people?
Again, I don't claim to have all the answers or know all the secrets of life, but I think each of us should carefully consider the value of our time and money. Neither is endless, but maybe we have a responsibility to put both of them to their highest and best use instead of simply maximizing our own happiness.Now it's your turn. If you're financially independent and still working, which of these 5 reasons apply?

What do you think? Is it morally wrong not to work more and earn more if you are able to? How do you balance that with your other moral obligations and desires?
Now you’ve got me curious about what video games you play.
Most recently? An online version of Settlers of Catan and SuperContra off an NES classic. Those NES games aren’t any easier than they used to be.
Try OgreBattle 64. Good RPG with various “paths” through which you can play the game an endless number of times.
Tried retiring. Not only do I likely do more for my causes working and donating than volunteering; the frustrations of work as a doc were those I was used to and could accept, while the frustrations of working with other volunteers was worse than having noncompliant patients, bad administrators, or clipboard (only) RNs. So I will retire once vested in current pensions scheme to increase future money for my own expenses (very unlikely to be needed) or continued donating. Being older also reduces the fear of running out of money/ not being able to return to high paying work if needed.
When I read, “ How many arteries that should be stented are not because a cardiologist went part-time or retired early? ”
I thought “how many arteries are stented because a cardiologist has big bills.”
I’m not saying that every doctor is an overutilizer of procedures, but I’ve witnessed some blatant cases of too many labs, xrays , and even procedures that may not have truly met risk/benefit calculation.
I’m working toward retirement. I have scaled back some. I might keep a very limited practice after retirement, but I really want to be a caddy.
Okay, I’ll bite! I continue to work despite Financial Independence because I have always worked and only know work. I find value and work in being productive. Yes I’ve slowed down and I’m only working 3 days per week now. I enjoy my extra time off but still feel the value and need to continue to work as long as I can be productive and useful.
Physicians need to do what’s best for them. No judgement. Our jobs are hard enough.
However, this reminds me of the 80,000 hours group idea of “Earning to Give”. Sometimes the “most good” you can do is by working a high paying job and donating the money rather than quitting your job to volunteer at a non-profit.
https://80000hours.org/articles/earning-to-give/#top
My path may be to work past my FI date and dedicate the next year to earning for my favorite charity, then the next year dedicate my earnings to my wife’s favorite charity, etc. I like the sequential nature of it. This MAY make burnout less likely if I’m working my job and see that money going directly to a charitable source.
Great article. I have been trying to teach people this concept for years. My feeling is we all need to be doing something useful. We need to have a purpose for being other than our own personal pleasure. When I was ready to stop practicing medicine, and we will all stop at some point, I went on a search for what my new purpose would be. I did feel guilty about the concept of “retiring and just playing golf because I had enough for me, so the rest of you can go get your own just like I did. ” After I retired from medicine I developed a new purpose. I still feel productive and feel like I am helping others and contributing to the betterment of society as a whole. I also like to help people learn about “enough.” (It was the topic of the last chapter of my Eliminating Debt book and was called The Finish Line) Many of us will just keep working, well beyond enough (the finish line), and just stockpile the extra in our pockets. Yet when we have reached enough, the extra we still earn can do so much more than just make our account balances larger. Once we have enough, we can help others get there as well.
I’m adding this to Fawcett’s Favorites.
Dr. Cory S. Fawcett
Financial Success MD
Given the headline I thought this was an article that would pertain to me – a doctor, but peripheral to the financial target group of WCI. I work part-time as a pediatrician at an FQHC in an HCOL area and anticipate continuing by necessity (and hopefully by desire) until my mid-60s. There’s no guarantee I’ll be happy with that choice 10-20 years from now, but I’ve definitely been happy with working part time while raising my kids through my 30s and 40s. I’m definitely happy working where it’s eminently clear on a daily basis that I’m serving people in great need. And it’s promising that a number of doctors at my clinic keep working by choice well into their 60s. I guess my point is that your fourth and fifth reasons can also be used as arguments against even setting FI as your goal. Life is uncertain – why not start trying today to maximize the utility of your work and use the money you earn to help others? Particularly right now when there’s far more than usual intense widespread need, when does it become immoral to hide money away for personal use decades from now?
Excellent question. Maybe saving itself is immoral!
Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin: yet I say unto you, that even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one.
But how does that contrast to the servants and the talents?
I’m not sure I’m looking to get into a theological discussion here, but it’s important to consider the context. The line you quote was given primarily to the disciples/apostles who were to devote all their time to preaching. The parable of the talents was given to a more general audience. Besides, Christ concluded the discussion a few sentences later with this line:
Which would suggest that if you put God and his teachings first, you shouldn’t be surprised if you also get food, clothing, material goods etc.
My knowledge of the bible is glancing at best, but I haven’t heard any parables where Jesus teaches that the rich man should ignore the beggar and set aside his gold for the future. That said, I still plan to save for retirement.
I’m pretty sure he didn’t give a parable that would suggest that. On the contrary, he gave pretty specific instructions not to turn away the beggar in numerous places. In fact, he told one rich young ruler to give everything away, although I’m not sure the intention was for that advice to be applied to everyone.
According to the Bible savings and investing are encouraged. Proverbs 21:20, “The wise man saves for the future, but the foolish man spends whatever he gets.” Proverbs 30:24-25, “….ants are creatures of little strength, yet they store up their food in the summer.” Proverbs 13:22, “A good man leaves an inheritance to his children’s children.” Ecclesiastes 11:2 speaks of diversification of your investments, “Divide your portion to seven or even eight, for you do not know what misfortune may occur on the earth.” But like so many things, moderation is in order. The Bible does not condemn drinking wine, but it condemns getting drunk (excess). The Bible does not condemn saving money, but it does condemn being greedy (excess). 2 Corinthians 9:7 “God loves a cheerful giver.” I think the message throughout the Bible is clear that you should be both giving to others and saving something for the future. We should not be spending everything on ourselves today.
Feels like Sunday morning around here.
I love this discussion! I’m not particularly religious but I know that Jesus wasn’t always particularly friendly to wealth, and pretty consistently emphasized helping those in need. That said it only makes sense that if you have the means to support yourself you should do so. James, while we’re on the subject of morality (you brought it up!) I would throw out that you have enormous power to encourage people of substantial means to focus on their charitable donations right now. It seems likely that we’re heading into an economic period that will rival the Great Depression. Even more than usual, a suggestion to your readers that there’s no time like the present to max out your giving could help a lot of people keep roofs over their heads and food in their bellies.
Let me know if you figure out the secret of what to say to a non-giver to turn them into a giver. I haven’t figured it out yet.
The non-givers might be hopeless (does anyone truly not donate at all?). But if the givers up their donations a bit compared to their typical year, or even just get the ball rolling now instead of December, that’s still very meaningful.
I’ve actually spent a lot of time thinking about this (because I do tend to donate more in December). I think it was February or March when people were encouraging me to “donate more right now because times are bad!” It made me wonder what the charities did with the money I just gave them a few weeks before. You would think they would budget it out over the year to use it at the time of greatest need rather than relying on me to guess when the time of greatest need would be and make the donation then.
In all fairness, no charity you gave money to in December could have planned for the world we’re in now. And it’s pretty obvious that the scale of need around the world is or will likely soon be far beyond what it’s been in most of our lifetimes. That may last years. But even without the current drama, it’s a real hardship for charities to have to rely on a somewhat unpredictable bolus of money in December to sustain operations year round. If you don’t know what the time of greatest need will be in the next 12 months, how do they? And even if under normal circumstances there might be typical patterns, we all know nothing is typical or predictable right now. So the more birds they have in hand, the better it is for the people they serve. I’m terrible and usually calculate and donate almost all my annual giving in December, but this year I’m trying to give more continuously for that reason.
a though-provoking post! So, one thing that hasn’t been mentioned here is, what do people think about cutting short a physician career, if, when you really think about it, 1) there is already a huge and growing physician shortage in the US., AND, 2) med school is so competitive to get in, not everyone who wants to be a doctor can become one, and there are so many people whose dreams of getting accepted into medical school and becoming a doctor are never realized. Yet so many practicing doctors dream of – and many actually achieve – FIRE. As I myself am part of the FI movement and contemplating FIRE myself, i can’t help but feel guilty for wanting to retire early and cut my career short, when there are so many people I am helping right now with my training and skills. I think to myself, sure, I can FIRE and do tons of other meaningful things to contribute to society, but I also could have done those things without taking a med school spot that could have potentially gone to someone else who could have worked 10-20 years longer than me. These are some of the thoughts that go through my mind as I contemplate early retirement. Curious to hear what others think….
Having a bunch of burnt out doctors continuing to slave away if they don’t want or need to doesn’t sound good for anyone. The idea that once you complete medical school you’re morally obligated to work yourself to the bone can be used as a justification to keep women out of medicine, since women go and have babies and all. It also works against older applicants, whose prior life experience you could argue enriches the profession. I entered med school a little late (finished residency at 35) and have been around 70% time since my first day as an attending (motivated by my baby-raising female status). If I work until my mid-60s, society is getting at best about 23 years of full-time work out of me. If anyone were to complain that my 23 years of service as a multilingual pediatrician serving impoverished immigrant families in Oakland isn’t enough of a contribution to society, I’d have some advice for them about where to stick it.
Well said. Only you get to say what “enough” is. I certainly don’t feel an obligation to society for “taking a spot” or for the money that paid for my schooling or residency or whatever. Society already got paid back for that long ago. I do still feel accountable to myself and a higher power for how I use what I have been given however. And neither of those people want me to spend all day feeling guilty.
Jane-
Good question. Problem is preselection- ‘no women, they reproduce’- can go on to ‘no Democrats, they don’t believe in 90 hour weeks’ and ‘Jewish doctors are less likely to practice in a rural area’ and so on. Same reason we benefit from nonprejudicial selection for everything else- we’d miss out on so many good doctors if we made all students get past some sort of a ‘more likely to work 60-90 hour weeks into their 70s’ screen. It is, however, fine to tie that commitment to earning a place so people can agree- can’t become a priest or nun if you won’t vow to be celibate- and maybe the payback we mandate for HPSP or even subsidized in-state tuition should require longer paybacks or financial costs to not fulfilling a time commitment. Residency already does that- want to be a surgeon, pay your dues at the beginning.
As I’ve said before, I paid off my legal obligations (HPSP commitment and a few loans mostly undergrad). PA who gave me instate tuition never got any doctor time back from me. All they did was reward my parents for residing and paying taxes there.
And the contract I signed up for with society has been altered by the medical system. Now I don’t have 20+ minutes per patient or an assistant doing half the prep work for me, and barely even any secretarial support where I happen to work now. Now I would have to see apparently 40 patients a day not 25 to keep a private practice solvent.
Plus, as from preselection, none of us know how we’ll like what we’ve signed up for. This is the reason I did HPSP- I was more willing to serve 4 years plus residency in the service than 20 years with loan payments pretty much requiring medical doctor pay to pay off. If you hate medicine, how could you tell at age 21? (Maybe we could screen out everyone pressured into med school by parents or family…)
On top of that, why should docs have to commit to ages 21 to 60-70 of greater than 40 hour work weeks? Especially now our occupation has become as dangerous as that of, say, coal miners or if that is incorrect, taxi drivers or something? Do we need to work until our hours put in drop us to a lifetime average pay of minimum wage or less than some other arbitrary number?
Or maybe that person who took “your spot” would have quit halfway through residency. Or gone half-time right out of residency. Or died in a motorcycle wreck in their 3rd year of attendinghood. Or FIRED even earlier. Who can say they would have worked 10-20 years longer than you? Coulda, shoulda, woulda. These questions are worth pondering, but at the end of the day you only have one life to live and only you can decide how best to use it.
Pretty interesting article….I’m a first time commentor. As has been said, working as a physician is highly time consuming and stressful, with high liability. I feel like every time my pager goes off, my life is 5 minutes shorter.
Insurance/government payments go down. Regulations/patient expectations/practice expenses and demands go up. Are physicians treated “fairly” relative to hospitals and big Pharma? I’m not sure. Does that play a role?
I am in an underserved area and I will do 30 years of what is “standard volume” of work (RVUs/surgeries/etc) in 20 years. Minimal time off. Huge patient care and surgery days. Few providers and lots of patients. I’ll hit FI at 19 years (on year 17 now). In that time I’ve also paid taxes (a lot, Federal/state/local/SSI) provided employment hundreds of people (run a private practice with 5 partners), gone on medical missions annually, built a much needed efficient, low cost surgery center (at personal financial risk) and given away tens of thousands in free care locally.
I’m not sure what’s next after year 20. Part time practice? Total retirement from medicine? Financial teaching? Overseas medical work? Need to figure that out.
Thank you for writing!
A good discussion. A couple thoughts.
Regarding #4. This point could also be extended to how much you work. Why stop at 40 hours, or 80? How much vacation is ok? There is always a need.
As I told my patients that I would have a vocation, but I didn’t know yet whether it would be a paid one or not.
I think we have to be careful not to make a hierarchy of purposes. There may have been a way to feel like I wasn’t forcing myself into a mold I didn’t fit in medicine, but I didn’t find it.
#5. This one I do think about. We give away $30-40k less now than when I practiced. And it could have gone up when more with the kids all gone.
But again at some point we start to value life in dollars.
But overall I agree that these additional points are important as some one contemplates what to do with FI. How to live a purposeful life should be a question we never stop asking.
And some who seek FI very aggressively haven’t developed other goals.