I recently had the opportunity to speak to a large group of emergency physicians. I do this periodically and really enjoy it, especially when it can be combined with me getting some CME and getting some turns in at a world class ski resort. However, it made me a little depressed when I realized just how much more work there is to do out there as far as educating physicians about personal finance and investing.
This was a conference for a state chapter of the American College of Emergency Physicians (ACEP). As regular readers know, I have been writing a column in the throwaway journal (ACEP NOW) for ACEP for over a year. When the emcee for the event introduced me, he asked how many of them had heard of The White Coat Investor. It was less than 2%. Total fail. I'd feel a little better about that if I were speaking to neurosurgeons or endocrinologists, but after 4 years of blogging, a best-selling book, and writing a column in a magazine ALL of the attendees of this particular conference receive every month, they hadn't even heard of the site, much less learned anything from it.
Name the mountain for bonus points.
I really enjoy getting out and meeting random groups of physicians. Interacting with blog readers through emails and comments gives me a very skewed view of doctors…skewed for the better that is. Doctors who find the site are not only at least a little bit educated about this stuff, but also interested. When I speak to random groups at CME conferences, I get a group that is far more typical of physicians. The results aren't necessarily pretty. They were all very nice and appreciative (wouldn't you be if this was the first time you heard this stuff?) but hearing about their personal financial issues sometimes brings a tear to my eye. I'm going to discuss the stories I heard from several of them in an effort to educate, but definitely not to poke fun at these docs or make light of their situations. I have changed all the details enough to make them completely anonymous, but not so much that the lessons their stories teach can't be learned.
Physician # 1 Time to Retire But No Portfolio
This doctor is in his early 60s, still in good health, and enjoying his practice. He makes around $300K a year. However, he mentioned to me that his portfolio was about $350K. That's right. After 3 decades of work, he has a portfolio approximately 1X his annual salary. When confronted with physicians in this situation, I try to be positive and point out all the great ways they can still improve their financial situation (keep working as long as you can, delay SS to 70, really start saving like crazy, turn any non-income generating assets into income generating assets etc.) And it's true that it really never is too late to start being smart about your finances. But at the same time, it's hard for me not to think, deep down inside, that the game has already been lost. This doctor is no longer playing to “win”, but rather to lose by the least amount possible.
If you didn't get it from the first picture, here's a selfie from the top
How did he get into this position? Well, in 2008, when he was in his mid 50s, he had an $800K portfolio. Great! That's a doc who can still win. He'll probably double his money between 55 and 65, add some more contributions, and retire with a couple million, which combined with SS, will provide quite a nice retirement. However, when the market crashed and his portfolio value dropped to $500K, he got out. Then he decided to take some time off and spent some of that money. Then he apparently never got back into the market. So 9 years later, he has less than half as much money. So many lessons there.
Physician # 2 Too Much House
This is a doctor also in his 60s, married, and planning to retire shortly. He is in a far better financial position than physician # 1. He has a portfolio of around $1.3M and two homes, a $400K main residence and an $800K vacation home that is occasionally rented out, providing about $10K per year in income. Net worth wise, this couple is doing great. A net worth of $2.5 Million should be plenty to provide a reasonably comfortable retirement. However, not in its current form. He and his wife have been debating selling the 2nd house in order to boost the portfolio. However, his wife wants to keep the vacation house in case the market drops again. She would feel terrible if she sold something they both really enjoy and then lost half the value of it in a market crash. There were several great learning points here:
1) $10K of income on an $800K property is a terrible investment. In fact, it is such a terrible investment, that its investment qualities can essentially be ignored and it can be treated as a consumption item. Is that item a little cheaper than it otherwise would be? Sure. But it's still a consumption item. Consider that typical maintenance costs on a home are 1-2% of its value every year ($8-16K) and that property tax (1.5% per year in this area) is another $12K.
2) A 1:1 ratio of portfolio to home equity is way too low. I would aim to keep that at 2:1 or better.
3) Real estate markets can drop 25-50% just as easily as the stock market. Rents tend to be more stable than property values, but this isn't exactly a rental property.
4) Vacation property can be rented very easily. You don't have to buy it. He could go there for a week every quarter for the rest of his life and never get anywhere near $800K.
5) People in their 60s probably shouldn't hold a 100% stock portfolio. A 50/50 portfolio only dropped 18% in 2008.
Again, this couple isn't in a bad position at all, but they can certainly reallocate their assets in a manner that will likely bring them more happiness, and certainly bring more financial security.
Physician # 3 Young Doc with Big Loans in Financial Toxic Wasteland
I also spoke with a soon to graduate resident with a large debt burden ($300-400K) who is moving to take a job in one of the areas of the country I often describe on the blog as a “financial toxic wasteland” due to a high cost of living, high taxes, and low physician pay. His question was how long he should wait to buy a home as his spouse was pressuring him a bit to buy sooner rather than later. There were two useful learning points from this discussion.
1) This is the wrong question to be asking. The question should be how this couple can get to a net worth of zero as soon as possible. The way to do that is to live like a resident, refinance the student loans, pay them down like crazy, and max out retirement accounts. Hopefully within 5-10 years, the student loans will be gone, they'll be in their dream house, and they'll be millionaires. That leaves the details of how to get from here to there, but the key is to live far below their means for a few years after residency.
2) I don't have a problem with an attending in a stable job buying a house. If he has tons of high interest student loans, it can even make more sense to use their cash to pay down their loans rather than using it for a down payment. That means a “doctor mortgage” (0-10% down but no PMI, just slightly higher rates and/or fees.) Since most docs change jobs in the first year or two it seems wise to me to wait at least 6-12 months to make sure you love the job and the job loves you before buying that first post-residency house. But there's no reason you need to wait 2, 3, 5, or even 7 years to buy a house.
A car I followed down the road on this trip. See if you think it's as funny as I do.
You don't have to wait until the loans are gone or even until they're paid down to a certain point. What you do you have to do, however, is live far below your means. So whether you are renting a house or buying a house, it needs to be relatively inexpensive (you know, something you could afford as a resident) so you can redirect that income toward building wealth (paying off student loans and maxing out retirement accounts.) If your future financial plans include a “forever house” or an “attending house,” the time to buy that isn't 2 months before you graduate from residency with $400K in debt.
Interacting with “real life physicians” rather than those who find their way to a personal finance and investing blog can be very educational for me and for those who frequent this site. We spend far too much time arguing the merits (or lack thereof) of whole life insurance, backdoor Roth IRAs, and the home office deduction and far too little making sure our colleagues learn the ultra high-yield basics like:
1) Save in your retirement accounts
2) Invest a significant portion of your assets in riskier assets like stocks or investment real estate
3) Don't sell low in bear markets
4) Don't hire commissioned salesmen as advisors
5) Don't buy whole life insurance/annuities etc when you haven't even maxed out your 401(k) (and probably not even then)
6) Save a significant percentage of your income (15-25% of gross) for retirement starting with your graduation from medical school, or at least residency.
7) If you're not going to take the time to learn how to do this stuff yourself, hire a competent, low-cost advisor.
What do you think? What have you learned from talking to colleagues with little knowledge/interest in personal finance and investing? How can we get “the message” out to the rest of our colleagues? Comment below!
Even if it’s 2%, that’s probably 2% of all doctors, not just ER docs. That’s still a lot of physicians. I’m just a dumb orthopod, and I read this site daily. And I’ve been spreading the word. Don’t get discouraged, keep up the good work!
Its the general populace that is ignorant about personal finance, not just doctors
My friends and I got finance degrees from one of the top universities and most recently I had to explain to my friend why she should be interested in investing in an IRA Roth and what a backdoor IRA Roth was.
With younger doctors I find that it is denial combined with large student loans. My husband was in 6 figure debt and before I sat down with him to work out a plan he was spending freely. He said he had so much debt it was like an ostrich sticking its neck in the sand, complete denial. I most recently met up with his friend that became a new attending, so I said now you’re earning money start thinking about how to manage it. He said he has so much debt he does not have the resources to start managing money vs paying down student loans.
Among my colleges, the worst financial behavior ever is to marry a younger wife who desires children. These mules will be working into their 70s.
HAHA, that was funny. Well, guess it just proves WCI right, one wife, one home etc.
I have a wife who is addicted to babies. Even with 8 children, I’m still on track for an early retirement.
K
Two observations:
1. Have 1 more baby and you can field a football team. The way it is you can already field a baseball team with 1 relief pitcher.
2. Awesome that you are on pace to retire early. Impressive!
Don’t give her any ideas. 😉
Aren’t mules sterile? Jus sayin’
I don’t think you are loosing any battles. Actually you are winning battles every time you get a new person to visit this site and act upon the information presented. As more and more docs see the light, they spread that info. It is contagious and we want to shout out loud and have everyone hear. This war you are fighting is going to be longer than our occupation in Afghanistan. But if everyone keeps spreading the information only more good will come from it; One battle at a time.
Have you ever thought about hosting a live webinar? This could be broadcasted to medical schools and residencies across the country. If scheduled far enough in advance, programs could be notified by word of mouth or other avenues. You could plan on a 1 hour session and base future webinars on the response/reception to the first session.
Thank you for all that you have done and continue to do.
Well, I guess I’m basing future webinars on the response to the first one-100 people signed up and 50 showed up. I get more comments than that on a blog post in 12 hours.
How many comments did your first blog post have? 😉
None. It’s interesting to go back to the first year and see how many of the posts didn’t have comments for years!
That is quite a abysmal turn up rate, but also I think you are much more popular and sought after these days. So could be much more successful these days.
Part of it is simply the timing. When I write a blog post, people can read it at their leisure. If I demanded everyone read it Friday at 4 pm…..my readership would be much lower.
Jim,
Thank you for this excellent post. I’ve recently finished your book and now working on my fiancée to read that bible.
Quick question— when you say aim to save 15-25% of your gross income, are you including retirement accounts in that figure, or is that in addition to retirement account contributions? Thanks!
That absolutely includes retirement accounts, including any employer match.
Jim,
When you say include your employer match do you mean towards your savings percentage or as total income?
I’ve read some experts say to include the employer match as part of your total gross and then save 15-20% of that total gross. Thoughts?
Both. So if your match is $10K and your income is $200K. And you save $30K in addition to your match, then your savings rate is $40K/$210K=19%.
– WCI, At least two of my colleagues have payed attention and opened an account in Vanguard and bought index funds. One of them bought your book and he asks questions here and there. Some others just simply say: “I will have my advisor handle it (some of them do not even know what is the fee their advisor is charging them)”. But really each doctor should be interested in gaining more information by themselves. You have won already, your message is being multiplied.
BTW I thought you meant “I’m losing the battle” against Eric. That was a fun post.
That’s funny you saw that as a battle. I agreed with 90% of what he said. I only wish my results investing in real estate had been similar to his.
I am very grateful for what I have learned here Jim. I am looking forward for more of those discussions. 🙂
It makes me shake my head how little assets and savings some of us have. I know of one co-resident who will take out a short-term loan just to take the Internal Medicine Boards (~$1365 now), and another soon-to-be Pediatrician who has been putting 250K+ of loans in forbearance for 4 years out of med school because of too much credit card debt. Then there was that guy who had 3 kids going into med school (4 by the time he finished), I always wonder how he’s doing now…
Then again, some other residents seemingly have substantial savings and even investment portfolios (don’t know what they’re composed of though).
One of my partners shocked me with his comments a couple weeks ago, didnt even know how to respond and not make it come off in a bad way (hes 20 years older). He asked what I was doing while checking up on my allocations, and then went on to mention how he had 600k or so, but hadnt been in the market because it had been weird for some time, but now it was seeming better and he was thinking its probably time to get back in.
Ready to jump in after a load of gains while his money had be ravaged by inflation and opportunity cost. Couldnt believe it, just like those vignettes you assume are overly hyperbolic to make a point…nope.
And here we are in 2019 looking back at your comment, in a historically unprecedented bull-run. Time in the market > timing the market.
Then to top it off my best friend (whom I sent a copy of your book and try to tempt into financial discussions) sent me his practices retirement plan to see what I thought. There wasnt a fund that charged less than 1%, many near 2 and none were great funds at all. The only decent choices were the target funds (assuming the holdings/allocations were standard) but those were between 1.65-2+%. Couldnt believe it. Sent him a quick spreadsheet showing the cost vs. vanguard equivalents, and we have a beach vacation weekend planned where we will discuss things further now. Slowly but surely.
WCI- thank you for what you do. At my hospital I’m often thought of as the boring guy who goes for singles because I mostly invest in funds etc. all the other docs watch CNBC during lunch break and debate hot stocks to go for the home run. I don’t research these stocks myself but the docs think they can outsmart the Street because they have medical insight.
I now feel the absolute worst place to get financial advice is the doctors lounge. I thank God that I’ve never fallen for the hot tip and that I’m too conservative by nature. Sadly many of these docs are very smart guys who provide great advice and care to their patients.
Keep fighting the good fight.
Interesting read until I read/saw this: “A car I followed down the road on this trip. See if you think it’s as funny as I do.”
Bachelor is a major adaptive sports center. Check out https://oregonadaptivesports.org
Awesome program and find! Yeah, that little quip to be funny has left a sour taste in my mouth all day. #thoughtless #fairplay
To be fair, the equipment on top of the car was none of the following adaptive skiing/riding equipment:
Adult Tessier dual-ski
Adult and child Revolution monoskis
Adult and child Yetti monoskis
Adult Praschberger monoski
Adult and child Bi-Unique bi-skis
Adult HOC bi-skis
Stand up outriggers
Sit down outriggers
Various ski bras
Various tip ties
“Blind Skier” bibs
Snow Slider
Snowboard with Rider Bar
2 Cross-country sit skis with poles
Just two standard snowboards. And yes, disabled people can do tons of stuff with appropriate accommodations. Reminds me of this ascent of El Cap: http://www.adventure-journal.com/2012/10/the-story-behind-the-first-all-disabled-ascent-of-el-cap/ Pretty inspiring.
WCI, I disagree that you are losing the battle. Your site has changed many lives, including mine and I tell everyone that will listen about it. Every day there is someone new who gets rid of a crummy advisor and realizes that they can indeed do it on their own. A year ago my husband, an oral surgeon and I (ER physician) were fully maxing out our 401k accounts and had an advisor that was charging 2% of assets under management and basically gambling with our money by using six different stocks with call options. His return was about a quarter of what the overall market returned. Of course he never bothered to tell us about a backdoor Roth, and we both had a Traditional IRA that we were contributing to and were never able to take the tax deduction from (don’t worry, they have been converted to Roth tax free and the advisor promptly dumped). Now, thanks to what I learned from your site I feel comfortable managing our simplebalanced portfolios of Vanguard index funds in our 401k and backdoor Roth accounts, as well as the 529 plans and Roth IRA accounts (they earn just enough income from husbands small business) for our two young children THANK YOU for leading us out of the dark.
you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make him drink
its a losing battle but you get lots of credit for trying
docs are not as smart as one thinks
dentists no better
I am “losing the battle” to unsubscribe to this thread. I think the link is broken. Ugh!
😉
I’ll unsubscribe you manually. Sorry for the inconvenience. I’ve been having a few glitches with the comments.
I am a fee-only financial planner and regular reader of your blog. As I read through your blog and comments, often the feeling I get is that my services aren’t in high demand (at least for this crowd). It’s the same feeling I get when I read the Bogleheads forum. Then I go out into the real world and talk with people and my feelings flip flop. It’s overwhelming how many people need help (some realize but many have no clue). You have done a great job educating your colleagues… it appears you are making a difference. I hear your name come up in the talks I do locally all the time… Keep fighting the fight!
Absolutely. At least 80% of docs should be using an advisor who gives good advice at a fair price. No doubt about it.
I agree. This is a hard fight to win and maybe you would do well to define exactly when you will have “won” your battle. As a financial planner myself it can be very discouraging to have people;
ignore
reject
not listen
put their head in the sand
go work with another “advisor”, or in your case, shun a wealth of good information. I “win” when I get new clients who seem to know that I am providing a great service to them and am creating my own little following. I’ll have “won” my battle when I have 200 “wins”. There is a lot of work to do.
I have heard some of my MD prospects, clients mention your name and I am proud to show them my guest post on your blog. Believe it or not, I like to hear them mention you, it means they are interested in having a successful financial future unlike many who completely ignore their current circumstances and are setting themselves up for failure, with or without an advisor who charges 2% and sells them whole life.
Those stories seem all too familiar. There are about a dozen physicians in my clinic, and most of them talk about basically living paycheck to paycheck on salaries that are well over 200K. Some are pretty close to retirement, though can’t retire because they need all their income. Personally, I don’t want to work until I die…just saying.
I’ve tried bringing up personal finance and investing more than once…haven’t had the best response. But here are a few:
I’ve been told that I’m simply too young, and I don’t understand how things really are–you know, the costs associated with getting married, having kids, college costs, having a McMansion, and a high end car. And that one day I’ll “understand”…good old argumentum ad hominem.
Those who do invest for retirement, usually go to a commission based investment advisor, because they provide “free” investment advice as a “courtesy” to doctors (we all know that nothing is free).
And there’s a pretty good consensus that I’m outside of my mind for daring to invest my own money, as that should be left up to the professionals. Dang it, Jim, I’m a doctor not a financial wizard!
It’s definitely an uphill battle, so I feel for you, WCI. Definitely glad that you do what you do, it’s helped me a lot. At close to 3 years out of residency, I’m fast approching a million dollar net worth…I may get there in another 3 years or so. For those who are interested, this site is invaluable.
If it’s any consolation, med students and residents seem to respond better than attendings when I bring it up…maybe just starting younger?
It’s a shame that your colleagues are not more open-minded to learn from someone younger than them; perhaps that contributes to them being in the financial situation they find themselves in. Lack of insight. I always have to remind myself to see things from other people’s perspective since our inherent bias is to read and learn from things you already agree with… confirmation bias at it’s best.
That being said, there is something to be said about learning through experience. Personally, I know that going through a bear-market is different than predicting how you will respond during a bear-market. Also, I’ve been trying to learn about intricacies of social security for my parents but know that it would be different if it was me actually having to make the decisions about social security for myself.
Doctors and men in general (I am one) are probably overconfident in their ability to invest and performance suffers… there are several studies showing women are better investors than men and are less over-confident. What I don’t understand is why don’t doctors approach financial questions as they do clinical questions.. with an evidence-based approach? I suppose it’s as boring as watching paint dry for most MDs to read/learn about financial issues and doesn’t apply to the majority of the audience of this blog.
The next to the last sentence above is the real kicker, isn’t it? The problem is that you have to first know where to go to find evidence-based information. We physicians know that the internet is generally a lousy place to get medical information. Instead, we go our journals, PubMed, a trusted text book, or even UpToDate. However, when it comes to evidence-based investing, unless you know where to look, you’re just another person trying to get investment advice on the internet.
For me, this site has become a repository of sound, evidence-based financial advice.
Sounds like the older attendings have a strong ego as well. And it’s understandable, they’ve been under someone for years in school and residency and now they have the standalone knowledge/skill to be on their own…so when a younger colleague challenges their ego, they will naturally be defensive and sounds like a little like projection defense mechanism.
I am not sure that “educating” fellow physicians is the answer to the financial problems which you illustrated: These docs are smart, but they are making conscious choices regarding their finances. They are buying the second money pit. They are choosing to not max out their retirement accounts. They are choosing to trade vehicles every other year. They are choosing to take a job in a “financial wasteland.”
I have witnessed all of the above in my partners. They realize what they are doing is essentially financial suicide, but they keep it up. They are big spenders. Although I am not a psychiatrist, I think these guys and gals feel they “owe it to themselves” for all the years of deprivation during training. My other theory is that I see this reckless financial behavior in doctors who I believe are depressed. I believe they feel buying and spending they will enjoy the short term increase in happiness, but then regress back to their baseline depression.
I am 55 years old and retiring this year with over $8 million portfolio, not counting $600,000 home. I have deprived myself of nothing, just maxed out retirement accounts and saved some of every paycheck.
What a great story! I would love to hear the whole story sometime. Its those little thing that make the difference, taking a little out each paycheck and putting it aside. I always find it sad when a doctor making 10-15k every 2 weeks can’t find anything extra, but it’s more common that it should be.
Would be happy to share, no secrets.
Made typical physician income, not a million per year.
That’s what I love about it, slow and steady. Congrats again!
How did you made 8 million in 20 years, I want to know too, WCI can we have a guest post from him
If you can talk him into writing it. It’s very rare I turn down a guest post from a regular reader.
Would be happy to write, anonymously, how I managed my investments without an adviser.
I’m afraid it will disappoint as there really is no secret potion to accumulating a large nest egg, if you subscribe to low costs and “lazy portfolio” investing.
Awesome! I don’t think anyone here is looking for that silver bullet, but success stories are great to hear as it keeps me motivated and reminds me what my goals and priorities are. I’d also love to know how the work schedule was during the time as 8M is a great retirement and with average doctor salaries, you should be able to experience an increase in yearly expenses and still have plenty left over for inheritance etc.
I think many of the regular readers enjoy the personal stuff most as we have researched the financial portion extensively, but the stories of success are what makes reminds us why we do what we do.
I agree. Had an email yesterday from a doc retiring with $13M.
We would love to hear what your income is, how much you were putting away and how you made 8 million in 20 years using lazy portfolio.
It’s amazing isn’t it? Diving into the details is fun, but at the end of the day, what most of us really like is simply an example of someone who did it! I can tell you exactly how he did it. It’s exactly the same way everyone else does it:
High income
High savings rate
Time in the market
Reasonable after-tax, after-expense returns
https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/what-would-it-take-for-you-to-retire-in-5-years/
Sam, your results are fabulous.
Sam, we want a guest post from you.
p.s. I like your beer.
+1
If you really think you are losing the battle, and personally I do not concede that point, then you should reassess, regroup, and adapt. I love the definition of insanity being to do the same thing over and over and expect different results. You spend much of your blog on nuts and blots, basic concepts, and mathematical arguments. Perhaps, you could expand into some more behavioral finance a la Jason Zweig. As long as it doesn’t alienate your regular readership, you might hit on a way to reach a new audience. I ignored most behavioral finance personally until I recently decided to tackle Ben Graham’s, The Intelligent Investor, which Zweig edited. It is fascinating…
You know, that was a really great title. Look at all these comments!
Actually, I’m pretty happy with how things are going. I’m nearly up to 400,000 pageviews a month. 3 years ago that was 60,000. But I was honestly surprised that such a small percentage of docs who get a column from me in their mail every month had ever heard of me/the site etc.
Maybe change the titles of your columns?
You mean I shouldn’t write intentionally provocative titles? 🙂
No. On this site you get great responses when the readers perceive they are coming to your defense or aid. The same tactic likely would’t work where they don’t know you yet. I generally don’t even open my AAP throwaways, but I do browse the front page. Do they ever put any reference to your column in ACEP there?
When I found your site what caught my eye and kept me coming back in the beginning was actually not your financial info at all. I was most impressed with a picture you had of your wife and kids and how you talked about them. I (correctly) concluded that someone who talked about his family the way you did was worth giving a little of my time to. Glad I did.
That’s how I found you. Read the ACEP article then visited the site.
You’re not losing the battle at all! Even though I am a dye-in-the-wool Boglehead, I still came out $1000 ahead after reading your book which encouraged me to file my own taxes. I’m recommending or giving your book to every doctor I know. Several have actually made changes to the way they invest. Many (most?) Americans are financially ignorant and doctors are no different, so don’t be discouraged. Rome wasn’t built in a day. Keep up the good fight!
besides most docs being financially illiterate, the mere fact that they get a very late start generating income, should ideally force them into a higher and faster savings rate to catch up. They rather piss away $$$ on material wealth. This site can only help and I recommend it to all my colleagues. I cannot even get my wife onboard and she will have to navigate the boat someday
No engineer I know lives a luxurious lifestyle. Not even the engineering executives. Amongst engineers you’d look like a boob if you’re a spendthrift. You physicians should start hanging out with engineers more often for some downwards peer pressure. 🙂
This must have been what saved me… ‘We are, we are, we are, we are, we are the engineers…’! Thrift through undergrad education. Or it may have been the depression era grandparents. Or being half Scot! Damn, I’m amazed I can bring myself to spend anything!
I think the title should be, “I am Winning Tons of Battles but I am Substantially Losing the War against Financial Incompetence”
I recently had a conversation with a 4th year medical student whose spouse is a recently graduated dentist. The person was talking about how amazing the whole life insurance policies they just bought (but are having trouble affording) were. The person said, “This insurance policy is amazing! Can you believe they will just give us our money back once we have paid into the policy after 30 years!? What an amazing deal we have!”
I wish I had remembered to sell this person the magic beans that I carry around in my pocket! I could have made a killing! 🙂
Needless to say, I referred this person to WCI. I gave a brief lecture about the time value of money and expected returns from a balanced portfolio being much better than the expect 0% return they will get on these whole life policies. I think this was a little bit too much for this young student who was under the impression that you always lose half your money in the stock market. I would like to meet this couple’s sleazy insurance salesman and punch him in the face!
Do the med schools ALLOW insurance agents into the school to talk to you guys? and gals?
Sure, happens all the time.
I think the only condition is that they buy lunch.
amassing 8 million in 22 yrs is great but a little incredulous as the last 20yrs were not spectacular
did you start from ground zero-not a penny in the bank
I would love to hear how that HAPPENDED as those yrs were nothing compared to the 80’s and 90’s
It’s all about saving a lot and getting reasonable returns. Put away $150K a year for 30 years and earn 8% on it and you end up with $18M. Put away $100K a year and get 10% a year for 25 years and you get $11M. $50K a year for 30 years at 8% a year is $6M. 4 variables in the equation, change them as needed!
Doctors now a days many times come from well off families, parents were doctors as well or lawyers, etc. and they’ve grown up in the Keeping Up With the Joneses Suburbian lifestyle with 2.5 kids and 2 luxury cars every 3-4 years.
Ok, doctors make good money, if they don’t spend all of their earnings then they will be able to save a nice nest egg for retirement. Investment earnings/ expenses are not the difference between a doctor who has $8million to retire on at 55 and another doctor with only $200k. The most important factor is and always will be cash flow, earnings- spending. Investment earnings, expenses are icing on the cake.