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Whole life? I know , I know

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  •  Marcuswelby 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 1
    Joined: 02/10/2019

    Giving scenarios seems to turn into long posts so imagine back to internship the quick factual presentations

    52 yo male divorced 4 children youngest in 11th grade. 529’s will cover most college cost. 2 term policies expiring within next 10 years are part of settlement.
    Solo and slower practice(I.e. Less lucrative) by choice and plan on working till full retirement age.

    Now about one year into relationship that likely will be long term/forever. She is 37yo with 2 elementary children and barely financially gets by. It seems she accepted bad settlement to get out.

    Should our relationship continue is this one of the few scenarios where a whole life policy might make some sense. Not financially I know, but in regard to permanent product given our age difference and my desire to make sure I leave some type of estate for her.

    I believe at age 55 insurability takes a big hit and premiums climb. I had thought maybe a 10 to 15 year term and a small whole life policy.  Because I have only had term( thanks to the wise program director) I know little about the complicated world that is whole life.  Reasonable thought?  If so what type: universal ? Plain whole life?

     

    Again all hypothetical but would appreciate a little feedback.

    #189626 Reply
    CordMcNally CordMcNally 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 1441
    Joined: 01/03/2017

    This is just me talking but that age difference along with such a new relationship and you already talking long term and leaving her an estate makes me uncomfortable. I would continue investing like you would normally invest and let things shake themselves out.

     

    *Pessimistic prediction time*: If this continues on like you think it might and your time comes, this is going to be messy unless you have your ducks in a row.

    “But investing isn’t about beating others at their game. It’s about controlling yourself at your own game.”
    ― Benjamin Graham, The Intelligent Investor

     ZZZ 
    Participant
    Status: Spouse
    Posts: 182
    Joined: 06/18/2018

    “is this one of the few scenarios where a whole life policy might make some sense”

    No.

    #189647 Reply
    Liked by Vagabond MD, Hank
     billy 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 127
    Joined: 04/07/2016

    I think more importantly is having your will updated to reflect what you would want. Admirable as it might be that you would want to take care of her/her kids, make sure you take care of yours first.  If you get married and died the next day, she would get it all and your 4 kids would be left with nothing. I would definitely push for a getting your will done AND a prenup prior to getting married, and way more important than any whole life (dont do it) or insurance you think you want.

    #189659 Reply
     jhwkr542 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 909
    Joined: 02/15/2016

    No to whole life still.  Just get a longer term policy if you need to and you won’t be financially independent with the new spouse/stepkids as early as you initially planned.

    #189661 Reply
    Liked by Vagabond MD
     Peds 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 2699
    Joined: 01/08/2016

    Nope.
    A good prenup.

    #189677 Reply
    Vagabond MD Vagabond MD 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 2950
    Joined: 01/21/2016

    Think of it this way – the whole life policy is diverting possible long term investment returns into the hands of the insurance agent/company and away from your current and or future family. Ignore the siren song!

    "Wealth is the slave of the wise man and the master of the fool.” -Seneca the Younger

    #189680 Reply
     Anne 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 712
    Joined: 11/07/2017

    This is a situation where a good prenup is essential.  And a will that you put a lot of thought into–and don’t forget to update it every so often as situations change.

    The best safeguard for the future for her is to help her build her career/ability to support herself.  37 is still plenty young to do this.

     

    Scott at MD Financial Services Scott at MD Financial Services 
    Participant
    Status: Website Sponsor, Insurance Agent, Small Business Owner
    Posts: 357
    Joined: 01/14/2016

    Giving scenarios seems to turn into long posts so imagine back to internship the quick factual presentations

    52 yo male divorced 4 children youngest in 11th grade. 529’s will cover most college cost. 2 term policies expiring within next 10 years are part of settlement.
    Solo and slower practice(I.e. Less lucrative) by choice and plan on working till full retirement age.

    Now about one year into relationship that likely will be long term/forever. She is 37yo with 2 elementary children and barely financially gets by. It seems she accepted bad settlement to get out.

    Should our relationship continue is this one of the few scenarios where a whole life policy might make some sense. Not financially I know, but in regard to permanent product given our age difference and my desire to make sure I leave some type of estate for her.

    I believe at age 55 insurability takes a big hit and premiums climb. I had thought maybe a 10 to 15 year term and a small whole life policy.  Because I have only had term( thanks to the wise program director) I know little about the complicated world that is whole life.  Reasonable thought?  If so what type: universal ? Plain whole life?

     

    Again all hypothetical but would appreciate a little feedback

    We have clients buy term all the time, heck last week a 74 year old bought some coverage because his wife was 42 and they had a 6 year old.  At age 52 if you want to buy 10, 15, 20, or even 30 year rate locked term you can.  I just ran numbers and assuming great health at age 52 you can buy a $1 million 30 year rate lock policy for about $325 per month.  30 years buys you a lot of time and if you find yourself down the road with no need for the coverage any longer you can always drop it.  If we can help let me know.

    S. Scott Nelson-Archer, CLU, ChFC with M. D. Financial Services, Inc.
    Direct Phone 713-966-3932, Email [email protected]

    #189688 Reply
    Scott at MD Financial Services Scott at MD Financial Services 
    Participant
    Status: Website Sponsor, Insurance Agent, Small Business Owner
    Posts: 357
    Joined: 01/14/2016

    We have clients buy term all the time, heck last week a 74 year old bought some coverage because his wife was 42 and they had a 6 year old.  At age 52 if you want to buy 10, 15, 20, or even 30 year rate locked term you can.  I just ran numbers and assuming great health at age 52 you can buy a $1 million 30 year rate lock policy for about $325 per month.  30 years buys you a lot of time and if you find yourself down the road with no need for the coverage any longer you can always drop it.  If we can help let me know.

    S. Scott Nelson-Archer, CLU, ChFC with M. D. Financial Services, Inc.
    Direct Phone 713-966-3932, Email [email protected]

    #189690 Reply
    Liked by Vagabond MD
    ENT Doc ENT Doc 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 2510
    Joined: 01/14/2017

    Ditto what’s been said on the prenup, will, and whole life. But especially on the first two.

    #189723 Reply
     G 
    Participant
    Status: Physician, Small Business Owner
    Posts: 1251
    Joined: 01/08/2016
    $1 million 30 year rate lock policy for about $325 per month

    Click to expand…

    that cracks me up when I think of the quote that I got (age 35 for a 20 yr term) after divulging that I used my free time to hike up tall hills…$1200/mo!!!

    #189741 Reply
    Scott at MD Financial Services Scott at MD Financial Services 
    Participant
    Status: Website Sponsor, Insurance Agent, Small Business Owner
    Posts: 357
    Joined: 01/14/2016
    $1 million 30 year rate lock policy for about $325 per month 

    Click to expand…

    that cracks me up when I think of the quote that I got (age 35 for a 20 yr term) after divulging that I used my free time to hike up tall hills…$1200/mo!!!

    Click to expand…

    LOL, just goes to show some reps don’t know what they are doing or how to shop a client correctly.  Assuming good health and not climbing but rather hiking as you said should be about $35 for a 35 year old, $1 million and 20 year rate lock!  Let us know if you need help.

    S. Scott Nelson-Archer, CLU, ChFC with M. D. Financial Services, Inc.
    Direct Phone 713-966-3932, Email [email protected]

    #189742 Reply
     G 
    Participant
    Status: Physician, Small Business Owner
    Posts: 1251
    Joined: 01/08/2016
    $1 million 30 year rate lock policy for about $325 per month 

    Click to expand…

    that cracks me up when I think of the quote that I got (age 35 for a 20 yr term) after divulging that I used my free time to hike up tall hills…$1200/mo!!!

    Click to expand…

    LOL, just goes to show some reps don’t know what they are doing or how to shop a client correctly.  Assuming good health and not climbing but rather hiking as you said should be about $35 for a 35 year old, $1 million and 20 year rate lock!  Let us know if you need help.

    Click to expand…

    Hiking…climbing…such subjective terms…. ?

    It’s all good, I stayed out of the greater ranges (and also gave up cave diving) for a few years and then truthfully reapplied for an acceptable rate.

    #189745 Reply
     AR 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 607
    Joined: 03/10/2016

    If you get a prenup, then it means you’ve already chosen suboptimally.  Just don’t get married.

    By all means, have a long-term, committed relationship.

    You can still leave her whatever you like.  It just has to be a deliberate decision on your part and you can change it whenever you want.   There are all sorts of other things that come with marriage that you can construct with the right legal documents.  Getting married does nothing for you.

    You both know first hand that marriage may not last forever and having to get divorced makes the breaking up part even worse.  Why expose yourself to that?

    Also to answer your question, no, don’t get a permanent policy.

    #189804 Reply

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