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What is the income of physicians?

Home General Investing What is the income of physicians?

  • Avatar G
    Participant
    Status: Physician, Small Business Owner
    Posts: 1905
    Joined: 01/08/2016

    I think the appropriate data would involve a three dimensional scatterbox, with axes of 1) income reported as $/minute of work, 2) 20 most common ICD-10 codes, 3) zip code of primary residence normalized by the minutes of travel time to primary money making site.

    then of course, you would have to have separate categories for private practice, government, academic, private practice at academic, academic at private hospital, hospital employee, independent contractor, partner of a democratic group, nonpartner of a democratic group, CMG.

    and then probably need some kind of way to account for folks that get paid for admin time or teaching time or flirting with the nurses time.

    I’m still amazed that people on this forum are asking me why I’m curious about physicians’ income.

    Click to expand…

    b_u, perhaps the above may be a part of the reason?

    #223740 Reply
    Liked by Tim, Anne
    Avatar Anne
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 1245
    Joined: 11/07/2017

    You asked a question and then some people gave you some pretty reasonable answers.  Then you expressed disbelief because you don’t know any doctors who make that little.  Then you asked the vague question of why someone was paid so little.  I don’t think you’re getting backlash.  My reaction is more one of confusion.

    Let’s switch to a topic that has nothing to do with money to illustrate.  Other popular topics on this forum are obesity and food intake.  So let’s ask the question, “How many calories do Americans eat a day?”  It’s a useless question in isolation.  You are going to get answers back of 500-10000.  So then ask “How much do Americans weigh?”  Again, useless answers.

    Physicians make a wide range of incomes and have a wide range of net worths.  There is data out there to give you more specific answers–you can look at medscape, MGMA, etc.  Perhaps a more interesting question is why do some doctors choose a lower paying field when they could have chosen a higher paying field?  Or why do some doctors take a lower paying job after being offered a higher paying job?  Or how do some doctors manage to accrue a decent net worth despite being paid what you consider to be peanuts?  I could answer all of those questions for you, as could others here.  But I have no idea what you are really trying to figure out–if it really is just the questions of percentiles I think you should get access to MGMA etc. and do some research.  Maybe write an article about it.  I might read it.  But maybe not.

    Avatar benign_user
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 181
    Joined: 01/14/2016

    I think the appropriate data would involve a three dimensional scatterbox, with axes of 1) income reported as $/minute of work, 2) 20 most common ICD-10 codes, 3) zip code of primary residence normalized by the minutes of travel time to primary money making site.

    then of course, you would have to have separate categories for private practice, government, academic, private practice at academic, academic at private hospital, hospital employee, independent contractor, partner of a democratic group, nonpartner of a democratic group, CMG.

    and then probably need some kind of way to account for folks that get paid for admin time or teaching time or flirting with the nurses time.

    I’m still amazed that people on this forum are asking me why I’m curious about physicians’ income.

    Click to expand…

    b_u, perhaps the above may be a part of the reason?

    Click to expand…

    Mock all you want, but medical students and residents can potentially learn from threads like these on what factors can result in lower and higher salaries.

    #223742 Reply
    Avatar Anne
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 1245
    Joined: 11/07/2017

    So you are posting the question to help med students and residents find out what factors will result in lower salaries?  How thoughtful of you.

    #223744 Reply
    Avatar benign_user
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 181
    Joined: 01/14/2016

    So you are posting the question to help med students and residents find out what factors will result in lower salaries?  How thoughtful of you.

    Click to expand…

    Isn’t this the whitecoatinvestor.com forum? You should read William Bernstein’s book, The Investor’s Manifesto, where he describes the importance of income in making investments, the title of this website/forum.

    #223745 Reply
    Avatar Dusn
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 199
    Joined: 01/02/2018

    Why does dusn’s region matter if you want global/US numbers?

    I’m having trouble understanding your backlash to the fact we can’t answer your constantly evolving question

    Click to expand…

    Because Dusn is reporting earnings that are much lower than the ones I see in my colleagues. So I’m trying to figure out why they are so low.

    Click to expand…

    I’m in the Southeast in a large town.  There’s only one major hospital system and they have a near monopoly.  If you’re a group that’s not employed by this hospital system they’ll make your life miserable.

    Anyway, tell us what you think are typical salaries, for which area of the country, which specialties, and type of practice, employed vs owner, how many patients per day and what ancillaries.

    #223747 Reply
    fatlittlepig fatlittlepig
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 1314
    Joined: 01/26/2017

    So you are posting the question to help med students and residents find out what factors will result in lower salaries?  How thoughtful of you.

    Click to expand…

    Isn’t this the whitecoatinvestor.com forum? You should read William Bernstein’s book, The Investor’s Manifesto, where he describes the importance of income in making investments, the title of this website/forum.

    Click to expand…

    you don’t seem to be very sophisticated when it comes to finances as demonstrated by your question and replies.

    #223749 Reply
    Avatar Anne
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 1245
    Joined: 11/07/2017

    So you are posting the question to help med students and residents find out what factors will result in lower salaries?  How thoughtful of you.

    Click to expand…

    Isn’t this the whitecoatinvestor.com forum? You should read William Bernstein’s book, The Investor’s Manifesto, where he describes the importance of income in making investments, the title of this website/forum.

    Click to expand…

    Lol.  Already read it.  I learned some history, but the behavioral stuff I’ve been doing since I started investing (which was prior to med school).  41 and FI but still loving my job.  Good luck to you in your search for whatever answers you are looking for.

    #223750 Reply
    Avatar benign_user
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 181
    Joined: 01/14/2016

    Why does dusn’s region matter if you want global/US numbers?

    I’m having trouble understanding your backlash to the fact we can’t answer your constantly evolving question

    Click to expand…

    Because Dusn is reporting earnings that are much lower than the ones I see in my colleagues. So I’m trying to figure out why they are so low.

    Click to expand…

    I’m in the Southeast in a large town.  There’s only one major hospital system and they have a near monopoly.  If you’re a group that’s not employed by this hospital system they’ll make your life miserable.

    Anyway, tell us what you think are typical salaries, for which area of the country, which specialties, and type of practice, employed vs owner, how many patients per day and what ancillaries.

    Click to expand…

    So I’m only familiar with the south. I’m in a metro area. The average salaries for PCPs in my hospital are 300-350K. Specialists do pretty well, the best paid are some Bariatric surgeons making north of $2million/year. There are very few employed physicians in my hospital and there are multiple competing hospital systems in this metro area.

    #223751 Reply
    Liked by snowcanyon
    Avatar Tim
    Participant
    Status: Accountant
    Posts: 3381
    Joined: 09/18/2018

    “I’m still amazed that people on this forum are asking me why I’m curious about physicians’ income.”

    That was clarified. Average. Asked and answered without objection.
    The Medscape survey (with all the weakness) was provided.
    If you objective is to have a conversation about an individual’s income, some are more open than others.

    Dusn did not request advice personally or for the acquaintances.
    You asked a question and received an answer.
    Push back is “philosophical “, the followups don’t have a purpose and don’t relate to your original curiosity.
    Not being judgmental, sometimes I read and don’t understand. That’s not pushback, it’s I even told you how to find details of wealth and compensation here for about 300 physicians. Why persist?

    #223754 Reply
    fatlittlepig fatlittlepig
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 1314
    Joined: 01/26/2017

    Why does dusn’s region matter if you want global/US numbers?

    I’m having trouble understanding your backlash to the fact we can’t answer your constantly evolving question

    Click to expand…

    Because Dusn is reporting earnings that are much lower than the ones I see in my colleagues. So I’m trying to figure out why they are so low.

    Click to expand…

    I’m in the Southeast in a large town.  There’s only one major hospital system and they have a near monopoly.  If you’re a group that’s not employed by this hospital system they’ll make your life miserable.

    Anyway, tell us what you think are typical salaries, for which area of the country, which specialties, and type of practice, employed vs owner, how many patients per day and what ancillaries.

    Click to expand…

    So I’m only familiar with the south. I’m in a large metro area. The average salaries for PCPs in my hospital are 300-350K. Specialists do pretty well, the best paid are some Bariatric surgeons making north of $2million/year. There are very few employed physicians in my hospital and there are multiple competing hospital systems in this large metro area.

    Click to expand…

    LOL, who knew there are geographical differences in physician salaries. Fatlittlepig just got back from texas, I wouldn’t move there for an extra 100 or 200K.

    #223755 Reply
    Avatar benign_user
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 181
    Joined: 01/14/2016

    Why does dusn’s region matter if you want global/US numbers?

    I’m having trouble understanding your backlash to the fact we can’t answer your constantly evolving question

    Click to expand…

    Because Dusn is reporting earnings that are much lower than the ones I see in my colleagues. So I’m trying to figure out why they are so low.

    Click to expand…

    I’m in the Southeast in a large town.  There’s only one major hospital system and they have a near monopoly.  If you’re a group that’s not employed by this hospital system they’ll make your life miserable.

    Anyway, tell us what you think are typical salaries, for which area of the country, which specialties, and type of practice, employed vs owner, how many patients per day and what ancillaries.

    Click to expand…

    So I’m only familiar with the south. I’m in a large metro area. The average salaries for PCPs in my hospital are 300-350K. Specialists do pretty well, the best paid are some Bariatric surgeons making north of $2million/year. There are very few employed physicians in my hospital and there are multiple competing hospital systems in this large metro area.

    Click to expand…

    LOL, who knew there are geographical differences in physician salaries. Fatlittlepig just got back from texas, I wouldn’t move there for an extra 100 or 200K.

    Click to expand…

    I do have to say though physicians are generally better respected in the South as compared to in California.

    #223757 Reply
    Avatar artemis
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 613
    Joined: 12/02/2016

    So you are posting the question to help med students and residents find out what factors will result in lower salaries?  How thoughtful of you.

    Click to expand…

    Isn’t this the whitecoatinvestor.com forum? You should read William Bernstein’s book, The Investor’s Manifesto, where he describes the importance of income in making investments, the title of this website/forum.

    Click to expand…

    And you should read 1 Timothy 6:10.

    Just because some specialties pay more than others, and some areas of the country have higher salaries than others, doesn’t automatically mean that a medical resident should put maximizing salary over every other concern.  Scaling down their desires and choosing a specialty and a practice setting they will enjoy makes much more sense.  Any physician who hasn’t run up ridiculous levels of student loan debt and who isn’t suffering from affluenza earns enough to be able to invest and achieve a comfortable retirement.

    #223758 Reply
    Avatar benign_user
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 181
    Joined: 01/14/2016

    So you are posting the question to help med students and residents find out what factors will result in lower salaries?  How thoughtful of you.

    Click to expand…

    Isn’t this the whitecoatinvestor.com forum? You should read William Bernstein’s book, The Investor’s Manifesto, where he describes the importance of income in making investments, the title of this website/forum.

    Click to expand…

    And you should read 1 Timothy 6:10.

    Just because some specialties pay more than others, and some areas of the country have higher salaries than others, doesn’t automatically mean that a medical resident should put maximizing salary over every other concern.  Scaling down their desires and choosing a specialty and a practice setting they will enjoy makes much more sense.  Any physician who hasn’t run up ridiculous levels of student loan debt and who isn’t suffering from affluenza earns enough to be able to invest and achieve a comfortable retirement.

    Click to expand…

    I agree, income should not be the major reason a student picks a field.

    #223759 Reply
    wonka31 wonka31
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 715
    Joined: 03/24/2018

    I’m truly surprised that this thread has lasted more than two posts. Did anyone read the initial post? The variances among specialties, geography, employed vs independent, negotiation in contracts, etc make this an impossible question to answer logically.

    How much does a doctor, lawyer, investment banker, real estate agent or daytrader make? Ummm, it depends.

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