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student loan crisis

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  • Avatar G 
    Participant
    Status: Physician, Small Business Owner
    Posts: 1905
    Joined: 01/08/2016

    To be fair, this planet would be pretty awful without art or literature or communication, but I think the underlying issue is that nobody sits down to figure out the value/cost of these things (and the U is completely isolated from that discussion, ’cause they get paid either way)…and hence the master’s in comparative literature or master’s in communication and having no related job.

    If I had a de Medici funding me, I probably wouldn’t have gotten a valuable job, worked on a private practice/business, etc…I’d just be skiing and trying to cross stuff off of my reading list.  You know, employed as a solid-state water harvester and bookworm.

    But turning to a (potentially) more positive topic, tell me more about this “fishing club”:

    I went fishing yesterday with a buddy (fishing club)

    Click to expand…

     

    #217566 Reply
    Liked by Tangler
    Lordosis Lordosis 
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    Status: Physician
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    I was talking to another doc complaining about the cost of their kid’s college.  I told them I went to State U and turned out fine.  She told me it is too hard for her kids to get into state U.  I forgot that once of the reasons colleges can charge so much is because some people are willing to pay whatever it takes to get their kids into college.  Some legal ways like this and some illegal ways like we have been hearing in the news.

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    There is usually another state U that is easier to get into. It may not be the namesake, but it could be under the grand umbrella of the state university. It was pretty common place for people to go to local commuter state school in Texas and transfer to University of Texas after 1 or 2 years.

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    I am in NYS and we have dozens of state Universities.  I got the impression she could not get into any of them.  At least any of the good ones.  True community college is an option but so few people use it.  I think there is a bad connotation with CC and Trade school keeping doctor’s kids out of them and keeping doctors poor.  Those darn Jones’s!

    “Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right.”

    #217578 Reply
    Liked by Tangler
    portlandia portlandia 
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    Status: Physician
    Posts: 415
    Joined: 07/07/2017

    Good thread.

    A couple of thoughts about fixing the student loan crisis.

    1. End the Federal Student Loan Scam Program. Without free money from taxpayers, many institutions would go under and the ones that remained would be leaner, i.e. less admin, less useless fields of study. Tuition would likely fall, thus allowing more students and families to pay directly for their education. For those that don’t have the funds, private lenders would fill the vacuum from the Feds departure. Because there would no longer be a government guaratee of repayment, lenders would vet students and their fields of study to ensure a high likelihood of repayment.

    2. End credentialsm. Part of the student loan problem is that nearly everyone is expected to have some sort of degree, even when said degree is unneccessary for many jobs. Politicians need to scrap all laws that expose employers to legal liability for employment screening tests. In the past many employers would have prospective employees take an aptitude test to identify qualified candidates to interview. Because these tests sometimes showed results that differed across racial and gender lines, people began to sue. Employers got wise to this and started requiring degrees instead. So instead of taking a 30 minute test, now one gets to spend 4 years in college before they can interview for that same job.

     

    #217602 Reply
    Avatar burritos 
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    Status: Physician
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    Joined: 04/23/2018

    I also find it interesting the person goes from talking about the toilet being a hole in the ground and being served spoiled meat and going to Ed, to how his standard of living is India is higher than it would be in America.

    Or he could just like get a normal job make 40-50k a year and lead a middle class American life?

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    I went fishing yesterday with a buddy (fishing club) who is an electrician. Guy in his early 60s who makes 100k per year. He finished training / school / certificiation with zero debt, and apparently that is the norm. He works hard, but certainly does meaningful work that helps people and he is happy and a great friend.

    His daughter on the other hand has a masters in communications and literally lives in his basement.

    His wife talked him into remodeling the basement for her. He was pissed because he had renters in there who were happy with how it looked and they actually paid rent…..she is going to live for free of course. She is 25 and finished the masters and has no job.

    They paid 100% of her college and masters and she has no job. He is complaining to me about this and says: “I told her to say screw it and study to become an electrician, I could teach her what I know and she would  have a great job, good health insurance, retirement, etc.”  and he turns to me and says: “you’re a doc……what do you think”.

    I said: She should do it immediately. He is much better off as an electrician than she is with her masters in communications IMO. So, a couple of thoughts:

    1. EVERYONE should have the  chance to pursue ANYTHING. None of this 4rth grade take a test crap, etc. I am pretty dumb and would have never survived that. I studied like crazy to become a doc and I somehow made it.

    2. Tuition and college are NOT the best option for many.

    3. We should not encourage people to get a 4 year degree that pays nothing in our society. They should have to read aloud a warning paragraph that sites what the average graduate with a masters in say communications makes following graduation and they should be required to sign at the bottom saying they know the average history major either needs to go to law school or med school or they can expect to make ____ amount with the degree.

    4. We should stop federally insuring these loans and make the school have some skin in the game.

     

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    The cumulative wear and tear of many of these blue collar trades can be pretty brutal.

    #217632 Reply
    Liked by Tangler
    Avatar Tangler 
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    Yes, there is a lot of wear and tear. Good point. They earn the money.

    #217633 Reply
    Avatar Tangler 
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    Fishing club is wonderful! But I cannot discuss it here. I Never mix fishing and finance!

    #217635 Reply
    Avatar Tangler 
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    Status: Physician
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    “There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation. One is by the sword. The other is by debt.”
    John Adams 1826

    #217665 Reply
    Liked by portlandia
    Avatar Tim 
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    Status: Accountant
    Posts: 3380
    Joined: 09/18/2018

    “Yikes, if kid cannot get into state U then either: ”

    Texas has it’s own little weird roadmaps for getting into basically two schools (a lot more, but UT and A&M are swamped). Between the top 10% and the diversity rules, even a very good student can get screwed. Remember that “B” in 9th grade algebra when you broke your leg and the multiplier used on AP classes one loads up with summer school classes? Why not transfer to a charter school or school that has a lot less competition? Your numbers are solid there (9/100 works, 101/1000 doesn’t).
    Even top 10% passes a hurdle, but doesn’t guarantee enrollment. One thing does. SAT scores are “gold” for admissions. There is a cut-off, accepted to any state school and complete your registration! Now figure out the housing, good luck with that. Sure hope you pick the right culture fit. What kid in their right mind is going to turn down free money? Being an Aggie or a Longhorn is an achievement earned. Besides, loans are guaranteed, right?

    #217672 Reply
    Avatar Dusn 
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    Status: Physician
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    Joined: 01/02/2018

    While I generally agree with everyone, I just wanted to play a little bit of devil’s advocate.   If your kid got into Harvard, Yale, MIT, Stanford etc and was planning on a career in business, finance, big law,  would you encourage them to go even if they had to take out loans?

    It’s pretty hard to get into one of these fields without going to a top school and the incomes in these fields (finance, in particular) dwarfs what the average doctor make. They also start making money at a much earlier age.

    #217682 Reply
    Liked by Zaphod
    Avatar Panscan 
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    But G getting an undergraduate degree in music appreciation is not what makes us have art or communication. Lots of amazing artists with little to no formal schooling.

    #217703 Reply
    Liked by Hank, G
    Avatar Panscan 
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    Sure dusn but if they wanted to go “insert random tiny private school for 50k/ yr with comparable if not worse academics than state u” I would strongly recommend them to reconsider.

    Those random private schools are the ones cranking out the English lit majors with 200k in debt. Not MIT or Stanford.

    I’ve never understood the tiny private college phenomonen that so many people are into. Honestly they seem like crap opportunities with unremarkable academics and triple the cost of state u to me.

    #217706 Reply
    Avatar nephron 
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    https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/03/politics/elizabeth-warren-calculator-student-debt-forgiveness/index.html

    This movement seems particularly wrong to me.   Student debt money is used by students to pay for everything, whether it be car payments, pay credit card financing charges, new clothes, etc.   I don’t see why people don’t see how it is inherently unfair to ask taxpayers to pay off peoples debt when others who may have been just as advantaged or disadvantaged, chose to stay home and commute, worked during school, or choose a cheaper in-state school or community college.    I am not particularly conservative, the last president I voted for was Al Gore (I liked the social security lock box idea), but politicians these days just seem to get worse and worse.  I don’t know why people don’t seem upset by this idea or how people don’t see this as contributing to the problem.  I think that it is sad that she has a calculator so that students can figure out how much free money they can get from the government rather then a compound interest calculator showing people how to build wealth.

     

    #217709 Reply
    Avatar Tim 
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    Status: Accountant
    Posts: 3380
    Joined: 09/18/2018

    @dusn,
    If your kid got into Harvard, Yale, MIT, Stanford

    Your kid will not dropout from these three schools due to lack of funds. EFC heavily leans on the parents, that is the “bomb”. Mom and Dad will be the first source. Fin Aid knows how to pressure. Debt for the student is the lever. They don’t let students just leave, they put those talents to work. What does a creative writing major do?
    Grant writing and editing mundane research papers for journal submission come to mind. Those research grants include funding for “research assistants” that grind out data and the statistics. Produce and you survive.
    It’s not scholarships, they get paid as long as they prove themselves useful.

    #217723 Reply
    Avatar Tim 
    Participant
    Status: Accountant
    Posts: 3380
    Joined: 09/18/2018

    Phone, can’t edit the “three”.

    #217725 Reply
    Liked by Tangler

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