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  • Avatar Sean 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 103
    Joined: 01/15/2016

    To those of you living in a high state income tax place in the Northeast, have you looked at New Hampshire?  Just curious, since it’s still part of the Northeast, but has no income or sales tax.  Sure, property taxes are high (close to those in NJ and IL), but at least income isn’t taxed!  Furthermore, home prices are reasonable as well.  Besides, the cost of property tax can be mitigated by how big or small a house you want to buy.  Not all docs want a 5,000 sq. ft. house.  I’d rather pay a higher property tax and no income tax.

    Besides, most, if not all, states which have a high income tax ALSO have a property and sales tax (NJ, are you listening?!)

    I suspect that the no-income-tax-but-high-other-taxes issue is probably a wash for most low- and mid-income earners in the general population, but for high income earners like docs, don’t you think not having your income taxed but paying a bit more than the US average in property tax is a big difference?

    #231426 Reply
    Avatar EntrepreneurMD 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 391
    Joined: 06/10/2019

    Rick Scott wrote an op ed in the WSJ yesterday about why New Yorkers are moving to Florida. It is pretty much financial/political porn but I do think the effect of this is real. Some in your face nuggets that stood out were that AOC’s mother moved to Florida, and that Florida recently passed New York for third place in US population. Pennsylvania also recently passed Illinois, an even more crooked state.

    One nice thing I will say about New York is they have kept their pension well funded. Many of their neighbors aren’t in such great shape and may have to raise taxes eventually to make up the shortfall.

    Click to expand…

    We moved from NY/NJ to Florida 18 years ago.

    Higher physician incomes with a constant influx of new patients, no state income tax, lower state/city sales tax, lower property taxes, very large home on 2 acres, almost 20K sq foot of commercial real estate owned, $5 large pepperoni pizzas, multiple dollar stores around the corner, 30-45 minutes to major cities/theme parks, 4 cars and room for more, no parking meters/tickets/towing to worry about, no $15 Holland/Lincoln tunnel tolls, no $50-70/day garage parking, median average home price here is under $100/sq ft.

    Living on $170K/year here, equivalent to $350-$450k/year in NY/NJ/CA/DC/Washington, etc.

    The effects of geography are more significant than most realize.

    Lordosis, almost my entire extended family made this move, close to 80 people, both working with young kids and retirees alike. Maybe more of your extended family is considering a move out of NY state. Even if they’re not, PA is not that far you said (although I don’t know that physician salaries are good in PA, hopefully that’s changed).

    Evaluate the pros and cons, it may or may not ultimately be worthwhile for you.

    #231572 Reply
    Liked by Craigy
    Craigy Craigy 
    Participant
    Status: Spouse
    Posts: 2101
    Joined: 09/16/2016

    We moved from NY/NJ to Florida 18 years ago.

     

    almost my entire extended family made this move, close to 80 people, both working with young kids and retirees alike.

    Click to expand…

    Whoa.

    Would you mind sharing more on the logistics of how that all ended up happening?  Initial impetus?  Slow trickle or all at once?  Just wanted to stay together?

    LEVEL 1 WCI FORUM MEMBER.

    #231580 Reply
    Liked by Tim
    Avatar Tim 
    Participant
    Status: Accountant
    Posts: 3301
    Joined: 09/18/2018
    Earnest refinancing bonus

    Location, job and compensation.

    The higher the income the more significant it becomes in a decision. When “something” prompts a change of employment I thing most people would consider the Cost of Living in a location and the impact on the net paycheck that is available for “spending”.  State taxes and COL probably impact decisions between choice alot more than prompting a change.

    #231596 Reply
    Avatar Dusn 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 199
    Joined: 01/02/2018

    I consider NY to be an unfriendly state for physicians and high earners in general.  I was at a conference and a representative from one of the state medical societies and a couple of state representatives was explaining their plan to make the state a single payer system and they would afford this by doubling the state tax.  I questioned the effect that doubling an already higher then average state tax would have on recruiting new physicians to the state and they assured me that was not going to be a problem because people do not look at those things or care much about local taxes.  I gave up and walked away.

    First off I know this is likely not going to happen and the people I was talking with were small potatoes so I do not expect much.

    Am I crazy to think that If my state tax went from 7 to 14% that might deter people from working in the state?  I live here because of family and would hate to move but PA is not that far away and I would consider it if it would greatly impact my financial life.

    Do you think this scenario would effect the average doctor from coming to NY or just the financially literate ones?  (who will probably retire early anyways) As dumb as our profession can be with finances we seem to be a pretty tax adverse group.

    I would love other opinions.

    Thanks!

     

    Click to expand…

    Well the biggest question I have regarding FIRE is how I would pay for good health insurance if I’m no longer employed, especially as I get older and get more health issues, preventing me for getting a good health insurance plan.    So I’d move there if they became single payer.   Of course I’d be retired so my taxes would be lower and I wouldn’t be a practicing physician except part-time or volunteer.

    But that proves your point… state single payer is a horrible idea for the state.  Everybody <65 y.o. who’s not working, like the future me, will move there.

    #231625 Reply
    Liked by Lordosis
    Avatar EntrepreneurMD 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 391
    Joined: 06/10/2019

    We moved from NY/NJ to Florida 18 years ago.

     

    almost my entire extended family made this move, close to 80 people, both working with young kids and retirees alike.

    Click to expand…

    Whoa.

    Would you mind sharing more on the logistics of how that all ended up happening?  Initial impetus?  Slow trickle or all at once?  Just wanted to stay together?

    Click to expand…

    With almost 20 years under our belts in NYC, the retirees of the family decided to semi-retire to central Florida about 25 years ago. I say semi-retire as they did quit their professions (mainly accounting/CPA) and purchased a whole lot of real estate at the time including large hotel/motel structures in theme park areas for cash flow.

    Fortunately, our generation was all in fields of practice that allowed for geographic diversity so we trickled down over the next decade, with our family coming 18 years ago and my parents retiring to the area shortly thereafter, buying up real estate. My retired in-laws came down with us and of course now generate monthly income from about 15 properties in 3 states. Several have purchased homes just 2-3 doors from each other after living in the same 3 family structure in NYC. Our in laws are in the community behind ours. For the retirees, every day seems to be a celebration of this great life. They take about 3-4 2 week vacations a year to Europe/Asia/South America/Australia/Western US/Caribbean).

    As for my generation, we are generally physicians, attorneys, dentists, pharmacists, and Florida generally makes for a great place for geographic arbitrage in healthcare. The majority of us own our businesses or are partners, ourselves included.

    We are furthest from most others, at about an hours drive. But we see each other every Sunday at church (also full of similar professions from pharmacist to neurosurgeon) and at every family gathering, which is exhaustively frequent but well worth it for the tremendous support. We just celebrated the graduation of a new dentist last month and the next in line is an orthopedic spine fellow and a corporate attorney. Proud of them all.

    If our kids don’t stay local, we will follow them (in retirement) wherever they may end up. There are things that are so much more important in life than generating income.

    #231844 Reply
    Liked by Craigy, Dreamgiver

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