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  • Zaphod Zaphod 
    Participant
    Status: Physician, Small Business Owner
    Posts: 4739
    Joined: 01/12/2016

    Really depends on age and enjoyment in career I guess.

    I would only consider retirement assets that could be drawn down like 401k/taxable. Its really of limited (though not zero) use to have a bunch of equity in your primary home only.

    Right now…2-5M. Too young and surgery is too unforgiving if a horrific sequence of returns hits, etc…I could of course easily live off 2M in liquid assets, but…whats the point of not working if you cant have some fun? 2-3M and maybe I just make the wife work and I do something fun like teaching anatomy for just spending cash.

    10M and I would feel comfortable ditching everything and never going back even at this young age. I realize thats way more than necessary, but I think you’ll find its true thats whats really required to do so, far above and beyond even crazy imagined concerns to really make one do so.

    As I get older I imagine the number decreases due to the death wedge, etc…

    Click to expand…

    Z- if you suddenly got 10 mil net worth somehow, would you quit medicine?  is there a difference between 5 and 10 million that factors into your decision?

     

    Click to expand…

    After tax net…I probably would. Quitting altogether is a big decision, so it would have to be about that. That would be enough to have a place to live anywhere really, have enough in the market to live much better than I need to, and pursue everything else I might want to do.

    Go back to school, maybe a startup, write some books, etc…

    Maybe another tact in the midrange 2-4M would be start a perfect practice in your perfect location, maybe.

    #171832 Reply
    The White Coat Investor The White Coat Investor 
    Keymaster
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 3702
    Joined: 05/13/2011

    Usually it’s 2X what I’ve got. But right now it’s about $5M in retirement supporting assets (i.e. not 529s or value of the home etc) which is perhaps only 1.3X. Obviously if I sold WCI, I’d have far more than that.

    My original goal was $2M in 2006 numbers, or about $2.8M now. Then we started spending more….

    Site/Forum Owner, Emergency Physician, Blogger, and author of The White Coat Investor: A Doctor's Guide to Personal Finance and Investing
    Helping Those Who Wear The White Coat Get A "Fair Shake" on Wall Street since 2011

    #171833 Reply
    Liked by hatton1
    CM CM 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 883
    Joined: 01/14/2017

    Two times our 5-yr average annual spending times 33 would do it, but there is a good chance I’ll retire without that much.

    Erstwhile Dance Theatre of Dayton performer cum bellhop. Carried bags for Cyd Charisse (gracious). Hosted epic company parties after Friday night rehearsals.

    #171836 Reply
    Drop it into MD Drop it into MD 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 232
    Joined: 09/20/2018
    Fundrise eREIT

    Two times our 5-yr average annual spending times 33 would do it, but there is a good chance I’ll retire without that much.

    Click to expand…

    A 0.015 withdrawal rate!!!  Even Suze Orman would approve.

    #171842 Reply
    Liked by Vagabond MD
    CM CM 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 883
    Joined: 01/14/2017

    Two times our 5-yr average annual spending times 33 would do it, but there is a good chance I’ll retire without that much.

    Click to expand…

    A 0.015 withdrawal rate!!!  Even Suze Orman would approve.

    Click to expand…

    😀  I expect to spend more in retirement, and I want to see my portfolio grow rather than shrink (unless I retire at a very old age).

    I tried a retirement dry run in 2001 (due to severe burnout) and found the lack of income very uncomfortable, not at first, but several years later. I don’t want to wake up 10+ years into retirement at 70-something and find that my portfolio has decreased by 50-70%. Based on my earlier experience, working longer is worth the trouble, as long as the work isn’t soul-crushing.

    Erstwhile Dance Theatre of Dayton performer cum bellhop. Carried bags for Cyd Charisse (gracious). Hosted epic company parties after Friday night rehearsals.

    uptoolate uptoolate 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 206
    Joined: 01/31/2016

    It was 5M target when I retired almost 5 years ago.  A little easier with universal healthcare and a little harder with 4 children with uncertain futures.  We have done well with sequence of returns so far.

    #171886 Reply
    Vagabond MD Vagabond MD 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 2742
    Joined: 01/21/2016
    Earnest refinancing bonus

    I have hit FI and have abandoned RE. I am actually looking at a new job and am pretty excited about it. Details will follow when it is all committed on both ends.

    I have long said that $10M would be the number where I would walk away.

    "Wealth is the slave of the wise man and the master of the fool.” -Seneca the Younger

    #171905 Reply
     StarTrekDoc 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 1496
    Joined: 01/15/2017

    Past the $4M NW committed to retirement – and that was our FI marker.   Next 14 years is biding time until kids get through college and settled and target for RE.   Can do anything really at this point.   I actually like my job.  🙂

     

    #171922 Reply
     Tim 
    Participant
    Status: Accountant
    Posts: 563
    Joined: 09/18/2018

    @startrekdoc
    Ha, ha, ha!
    “until kids get through college and settled “?
    How did you choose 14 yrs.? I tended to think of “settled” being meaningfully employed after college.
    Unfortunately for physicians that adds a few years.
    How many years after college did it take you to get settled? Daughter is headed to 12 yrs.
    Congratulations ! Jackpot, maybe 26 more yrs.
    Glad you enjoy your work.

    #171964 Reply
     bean1970 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 291
    Joined: 07/12/2017

    I didn’t concentrate so much on the value of the NW or a target number. for me it is the point when our passive income meets or exceeds our expenses (completely passive like sit on couch passive…i’m not talking real estate…there is always a body involved to make real estate work whether you do it yourself or have to hire someone IMO)…..  This is happening right now.  My husband and I are straddling age 50 (and i’m on the younger side 🙂 )  We won’t withdraw much (or at all) from our retirement accounts until we are forced to.

    the number (or passive streams) should be based on your spending and lifestyle…..the graphs looks very different starting with a 5 million pot heading into retirement an one couple spends 100K/year and the other spends 350K/year……

    #171978 Reply
    hatton1 hatton1 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 2650
    Joined: 01/11/2016

    For me….I realized that my passive income exceeded my spending significantly.  I decided I really did not want to continue delivering babies in the middle of the night any more.  Net worth greater than 5 mill when decided this.  Interestingly working part time net worth now about 8 mill.  Power of a bull market and compounding.

    #171981 Reply
    PhysicianOnFIRE PhysicianOnFIRE 
    Moderator
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 1440
    Joined: 01/08/2016

    A few years ago, we had basic 25x FI with a little less than $2M in assets for retirement plus a paid-off home and cabin.

    For a variety of reasons, including a lengthy retirement, responsibility to pay for healthcare coverage, kids who will become teenagers, etc… I decided our true FI number would be around $3M. We’re there now.

    If inflation is close to historical averages, $3M today is similar to $5M to $6M in 20 to 25 years. Plan accordingly.

     

    40-something anesthesiologist and personal finance blogger @ https://physicianonfire.com [Part of the WCI Network] Find me on Twitter: @physicianonfire

    FIRE. Financial Independence. Retire Early.

    #171989 Reply
    Liked by Vagabond MD
     Kamban 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 1698
    Joined: 08/01/2016
    10M and I would feel comfortable ditching everything and never going back even at this young age. I realize thats way more than necessary, but I think you’ll find its true thats whats really required to do so, far above and beyond even crazy imagined concerns to really make one do so.

    Click to expand…

    When my net worth was way low about a couple of decades ago I would have said $5-10M and I am done. The stress of the job and working for a terrible employer was getting on to me.

    But being on my own, earning well early on with hard work that rewarded me and not my employer and then slowing down a decade ago I realized I loved medicine and taking care of people. Even with $5 or 10M I would not quit practicing medicine. I really enjoy interacting with my staff and my patients. I get enough passive income that earning at work is money for incidentals and to help with charity. My perspective on work and money has changed over the past 20 years. I am more like Vagabond and hatton1, working for inner pleasure than than it being a chore..

    #171995 Reply
    Molar Mechanic Molar Mechanic 
    Participant
    Status: Dentist, Small Business Owner
    Posts: 240
    Joined: 10/29/2017

    My goal is to hit a NW of ~5M by age 45 and start to dial back my income and hours.  I’ll likely hit 10M between 5-10 years later and I’ll have to decide if I want to keep doing dentistry for money, keep doing dentistry, but for free, or quit dentistry and do something with zero stress (Drive one of those pedal powered rickshaws for lazy tourists?).

    I count the house in the net worth since I don’t plan to live in that house after the little birds fly away.

    #172003 Reply
    Zaphod Zaphod 
    Participant
    Status: Physician, Small Business Owner
    Posts: 4739
    Joined: 01/12/2016

    10M and I would feel comfortable ditching everything and never going back even at this young age. I realize thats way more than necessary, but I think you’ll find its true thats whats really required to do so, far above and beyond even crazy imagined concerns to really make one do so.

    Click to expand…

    When my net worth was way low about a couple of decades ago I would have said $5-10M and I am done. The stress of the job and working for a terrible employer was getting on to me.

    But being on my own, earning well early on with hard work that rewarded me and not my employer and then slowing down a decade ago I realized I loved medicine and taking care of people. Even with $5 or 10M I would not quit practicing medicine. I really enjoy interacting with my staff and my patients. I get enough passive income that earning at work is money for incidentals and to help with charity. My perspective on work and money has changed over the past 20 years. I am more like Vagabond and hatton1, working for inner pleasure than than it being a chore..

    Click to expand…

    That is of course a distinct possibility. 2-3M that may be my go to, the perfect practice. 10M in hand at once, I think I quit for risk avoidance, etc…and try some totally new stuff. Maybe even opening practices but not doing the actual doctoring myself. A couple other things I’d love to try to fail at if I had the money to give it a go.

    #172004 Reply

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