hightowerParticipantStatus: PhysicianPosts: 1485Joined: 12/07/2016
Very curious to hear the details of what exactly he’s accused of doing. I saw one headline that said something about him using 2000 mcg Fentanyl doses and possibly paralytics as well, but it doesn’t give details as to the circumstances…was this pre-procedural? hospice patients?June 5, 2019 at 9:35 am MST #219396burritosParticipantStatus: PhysicianPosts: 494Joined: 04/23/2018
I know this is tangential, but for states unable to get lethal medications for executions, could they just slap on 50 fentanyl patches instead? It’s painless and bloodless, right?CordMcNallyParticipantStatus: PhysicianPosts: 2844Joined: 01/03/2017
I’m interested in the details, too.
As a partial aside, physician-assisted suicides should be legal for certain situations.
“But investing isn’t about beating others at their game. It’s about controlling yourself at your own game.”
― Benjamin Graham, The Intelligent InvestorENT DocParticipantStatus: PhysicianPosts: 3515Joined: 01/14/2017
I don’t believe the full investigation is concluded, but it was initially reported that he was ordering and giving inappropriately high doses of narcotics/etc to end the “coming off the vent” process, in withdrawal of life cases.
Obviously, this has brought into question his motives and whether or not the judgement was sound as to whether it really was a true “no hope” situation.
In the most positive light I can understand a physician being jaded by cases of needless prolongation of end of life care, the suffering, writhing…the indecision that can lead to a wasting lifeless body on a vent. But as much as it may be the case where he effectively made a person falling from a skyscraper, destined to die, black out and not suffer the long fall, and as much as I personally see the humanity in that act, he doesn’t get to make that choice. His ownership of a decision that wasn’t his is the ethical (and criminal) problem here.
This situation also shed light on the terrible system of checks and balances there. Something like twenty nurses/pharmacists were let go or suspended who should have also been able to stop this. Clearly, systemic changes need to occur there. And our discussion of end of life care needs to continue as well IMO.portlandiaParticipantStatus: PhysicianPosts: 401Joined: 07/07/2017
Looks like he was an ICU doc and is accused of giving “near-death” patients lethal doses of pain meds.
If it is true that he was ordering 10-20x the normal dosage of pain meds, who are the nurses that are giving these lethal dosages?LordosisParticipantStatus: PhysicianPosts: 1846Joined: 02/11/2019
Isn’t this the premise of a medical thriller novel? I swear I read something like this in the past. If I am remembering correctly the doctor was the antagonist and was killing off patients for nefarious reasons.
“Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right.”June 5, 2019 at 12:04 pm MST #219432wa2106ParticipantStatus: PhysicianPosts: 185Joined: 11/29/2017
Hmmm his wife was one of the nurses. Doesn’t bode well for asset protection from inevitable civil suits.June 5, 2019 at 12:22 pm MST #219438wonka31ParticipantStatus: PhysicianPosts: 701Joined: 03/24/2018
He gave someone 1000mcg of fentanyl apparently, that’s quite a lot. Like 10x a lot. Even if ‘near death’ as the hospital stated, this can’t happen and is wildly outside of any generally accepted norm.June 5, 2019 at 12:26 pm MST #219439treesrockParticipantStatus: PhysicianPosts: 336Joined: 08/14/2017
He gave someone 1000mcg of fentanyl apparently, that’s quite a lot. Like 10x a lot. Even if ‘near death’ as the hospital stated, this can’t happen and is wildly outside of any generally accepted norm.Click to expand…
That’s quite the dose…June 5, 2019 at 12:39 pm MST #219440TimParticipantStatus: AccountantPosts: 3059Joined: 09/18/2018
“Prosecutors allege Husel ordered excessive doses of fentanyl, ranging from 500 micrograms to 2,000 micrograms, for 34 patients. Six of the patients did not die from the high doses, authorities said. The typical dose of the opioid is between 25 and 100 micrograms.”
“Husel was a critical-care doctor with the Mount Carmel Health System, one of the largest in central Ohio, from 2015 to 2018. He was suspended on Nov. 21, 2018, and fired two weeks later.
The State Medical Board of Ohio suspended Husel’s medical license in late January, citing his “failure to meet acceptable standards regarding the selection of drugs, violations of the minimal standards of care and failing to cooperate in a board’s investigation.” Husel had previously been granted a July hearing date to appeal the medical board’s decision.”
“The former doctor is also embroiled in over a dozen wrongful death lawsuits since January. In one suit, the family of 82-year-old Melissa Penix alleges she admitted herself to Mount Carmel West in November after suffering from “stomach pains.” She died about five minutes after Husel gave her 2,000 micrograms of fentanyl, the lawsuit alleges. Husel allegedly told Penix’s family that she was brain dead and “encouraged them” to end her care. ”
Hard enough decision without with a doc with having “veto complex”.June 5, 2019 at 1:34 pm MST #219445Brains428ParticipantStatus: PhysicianPosts: 398Joined: 11/09/2017
@lordosis Maybe you’re thinking about the doctor who was accused of mercy type killing surrounding hurricane Katrina when resources were low?
Some of these ethical dilemmas are indirect reasons as to why I chose radiology.
John Oliver sort of addressed the “first do no harm” idea a few weeks ago in regards to the death penalty. Dr. Gawande addresses that idea in “Better.”
As much as I believe a patient has a choice to die and should be allowed to make that choice, it’s not where we are from medico-legal (and to some people, ethical) standpoint.June 5, 2019 at 1:52 pm MST #219450jhwkr542ParticipantStatus: PhysicianPosts: 1316Joined: 02/15/2016
But the article says they weren’t mercy killings. I find it hard to believe the doc would be charged with murder if these patients are having care withdrawn. Fired? Yes. Facing life in prison? NoJune 5, 2019 at 2:42 pm MST #219460FunkDoc83ParticipantStatus: PhysicianPosts: 221Joined: 04/12/2018lick to expand…
“The former doctor is also embroiled in over a dozen wrongful death lawsuits since January. In one suit, the family of 82-year-old Melissa Penix alleges she admitted herself to Mount Carmel West in November after suffering from “stomach pains.” She died about five minutes after Husel gave her 2,000 micrograms of fentanyl, the lawsuit alleges. Husel allegedly told Penix’s family that she was brain dead and “encouraged them” to end her care. ”Click to expand…
That would be 40cc of standard concentration fentanyl. Way overboard!!! I’ve never seen it, but high doses can cause rigid chest syndrome and make breathing and resuscitation darn near impossible.June 5, 2019 at 2:44 pm MST #219461PanscanParticipantStatus: ResidentPosts: 1089Joined: 03/18/2017
What were the hospital pharmacists doing? I feel like you couldnt even do this in most hospitals even if you tried. I mean there’s clinical judgment if you want to give someone 150 of fentanyl but not 2000TimParticipantStatus: AccountantPosts: 3059Joined: 09/18/2018I find it hard to believe the doc would be charged with murder if these patients are having care withdrawn.Click to expand…
The doc was independently making the decision. Not the patient nor the family. That might be a problem. Everyone that “touched this” in any way has been fired and reported. A little late.June 5, 2019 at 3:19 pm MST #219470