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Northern California

Home Mortgages and Home Buying Northern California

  • Avatar mjohnson 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 64
    Joined: 05/05/2019

    Happy wife = happy life.

    #238408 Reply
    Liked by MDaware
    fatlittlepig fatlittlepig 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 1313
    Joined: 01/26/2017

    I’m EM. 3 years out of residency. Did locums for a bit after residency so don’t have any loans. Haven’t applied in the area yet but am guessing income would be around 325-350k. Wife is currently stay at home mom. Would be planning to have more kids and would be planning to buy a house.

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    do you have any personal ties to CA?  its a big financial commitment if you aren’t into it.  You are likely overestimating potential income, physician salaries are lower in desirable parts of CA and the physician job market is saturated.  Unless you’re generating passive income, receiving family assistance or inheritance you should expect:

    1. spouse will need to work

    2. can’t afford to have more kids

    3.  live in debt & on a strict budget for a longer than anticipated time

    4.  rent rather than own

    5. retire late

    Click to expand…

    None of these are true if you’re a well paid physician.

    #238419 Reply
    Avatar Panscan 
    Participant
    Status: Resident
    Posts: 1152
    Joined: 03/18/2017

    People who live in California, and say it’s worth it. At what point would it not? Like there has to be a point where it’s not. 1.5x current cost? 2?

    Just wondering

    #238433 Reply
    Liked by octopus85
    Avatar nephron 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 288
    Joined: 05/09/2019

    I moved to a high cost of living/high tax area saturated with physicians to be closer to my wife’s parents too.   There are more important things then financial geographic arbitrage, I couldn’t imagine living out in some isolated area like an island in Alaska for 20 years (I seem to remember a lucrative job advertisement from there) to make more money then living where I live now.   There are more important non-financial things that need to be considered when you have kids, the back up childcare alone when your nanny quits may make up the financial difference alone.  Remember that as a physician, you may not be in the top 1% of incomes depending on where you live, but you will likely be in at least the top 5-10% so I think that you could budget to live anywhere you could find employment at.  My biggest concern with living in California would be living near a fault line with the earthquakes, I still remember watching a video in high school where some geologist was predicting that California was going to fall into the ocean in the next 20 years, but that was over 20 years ago so I guess who knows.

     

    #238444 Reply
    Zzyzx Zzyzx 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 203
    Joined: 09/24/2018

    I’m EM. 3 years out of residency. Did locums for a bit after residency so don’t have any loans. Haven’t applied in the area yet but am guessing income would be around 325-350k. Wife is currently stay at home mom. Would be planning to have more kids and would be planning to buy a house.

    Click to expand…

    do you have any personal ties to CA?  its a big financial commitment if you aren’t into it.  You are likely overestimating potential income, physician salaries are lower in desirable parts of CA and the physician job market is saturated.  Unless you’re generating passive income, receiving family assistance or inheritance you should expect:

    1. spouse will need to work

    2. can’t afford to have more kids

    3.  live in debt & on a strict budget for a longer than anticipated time

    4.  rent rather than own

    5. retire late

    Click to expand…

    None of these are true if you’re a well paid physician.

    Click to expand…

    wrong as usual porky

    Golden Rules For Living In The Golden State

     

    It’s psychosomatic. You need a lobotomy. I’ll get a saw.

    #238535 Reply
    Avatar Peds 
    Moderator
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 4715
    Joined: 01/08/2016

    People who live in California, and say it’s worth it. At what point would it not? Like there has to be a point where it’s not. 1.5x current cost? 2?

    Just wondering

    Click to expand…

    good question. i dont have an exact answer but there definitely is a tipping point, but would need to get the family on board.

    #238536 Reply
    fatlittlepig fatlittlepig 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 1313
    Joined: 01/26/2017
    Splash Refinancing Bonus

    I’m EM. 3 years out of residency. Did locums for a bit after residency so don’t have any loans. Haven’t applied in the area yet but am guessing income would be around 325-350k. Wife is currently stay at home mom. Would be planning to have more kids and would be planning to buy a house.

    Click to expand…

    do you have any personal ties to CA?  its a big financial commitment if you aren’t into it.  You are likely overestimating potential income, physician salaries are lower in desirable parts of CA and the physician job market is saturated.  Unless you’re generating passive income, receiving family assistance or inheritance you should expect:

    1. spouse will need to work

    2. can’t afford to have more kids

    3.  live in debt & on a strict budget for a longer than anticipated time

    4.  rent rather than own

    5. retire late

    Click to expand…

    None of these are true if you’re a well paid physician.

    Click to expand…

    wrong as usual porky

     

    Click to expand…

    Oink oink. I didn’t click on that blog link. As a CA resident I think I know what it’s all about. If your pulling in a good income as a physician everything in your list is false.

    #238546 Reply
    Liked by Zaphod, octopus85
    Avatar danesgod 
    Participant
    Status: Spouse
    Posts: 77
    Joined: 09/12/2017

    People who live in California, and say it’s worth it. At what point would it not? Like there has to be a point where it’s not. 1.5x current cost? 2?

    Just wondering

    Click to expand…

    For well paid professionals like doctors, the only real money issue in CA is housing. Yea, your baseline COL is maybe 10-20% higher than a lot of LCOL places, but that doesn’t break the bank. So you’ve got housing and property taxes.*

    There are places in the bay area that I looked at that easily priced average/young physicians out in the past 10 years. If you look at some places home prices have doubled in less than that. That’s like, a 2MM home going for 4MM. If you made 500k and were comfortable with a 3.2x  mortgage (1.6MM, 20% down) you’re now priced out at 4MM. Same math goes for homes that went from 750k->1.5MM or 1MM->2MM.

    We really value our commute time, so we paid (a lot) for a house so my wife can walk to the hospital. If housing were 1.5x more near the hospital we could not afford to live here (in this zip code), and therefore she would have a 30 min – 1hr commute. In this situation we wouldn’t be staying here long term. But that’s because we don’t want to commute. If you tolerate commuting more than us, you can lower your housing costs. Alternatively, many professionals continue to rent here because buying is prohibitively expensive (e.g. the last house we were renting was probably a 2.0MM house and it rented for $4900, mortgage and property tax on that place would be ~$6800), and the math on that is pretty favorable; might even be better long term.

    However, now that our housing is locked in we’re fine.

    * Child care for two is also pretty substantial (could be $4k+).

    #238573 Reply
    Avatar danesgod 
    Participant
    Status: Spouse
    Posts: 77
    Joined: 09/12/2017

    I’m EM. 3 years out of residency. Did locums for a bit after residency so don’t have any loans. Haven’t applied in the area yet but am guessing income would be around 325-350k. Wife is currently stay at home mom. Would be planning to have more kids and would be planning to buy a house.

    Click to expand…

    do you have any personal ties to CA?  its a big financial commitment if you aren’t into it.  You are likely overestimating potential income, physician salaries are lower in desirable parts of CA and the physician job market is saturated.  Unless you’re generating passive income, receiving family assistance or inheritance you should expect:

    1. spouse will need to work

    2. can’t afford to have more kids

    3.  live in debt & on a strict budget for a longer than anticipated time

    4.  rent rather than own

    5. retire late

    Click to expand…

    None of these are true if you’re a well paid physician.

    Click to expand…

    wrong as usual porky

     

    Click to expand…

    Oink oink. I didn’t click on that blog link. As a CA resident I think I know what it’s all about. If your pulling in a good income as a physician everything in your list is false.

    Click to expand…

    I disagree that “everything is false.” I think everything on his list is eventually false. A good salary makes all of those things achievable, but not immediately upon starting your career. Outside (the bay area) California, you really can have all those things at once with your first attending paycheck. Here, it might take you a few years ramping up.

    #238576 Reply
    Liked by Zaphod
    Avatar Panscan 
    Participant
    Status: Resident
    Posts: 1152
    Joined: 03/18/2017

    10-20%? It seems like the difference is way more than that, like multiples of that

    #238578 Reply
    Liked by Moomoo
    Avatar danesgod 
    Participant
    Status: Spouse
    Posts: 77
    Joined: 09/12/2017

    10-20%? It seems like the difference is way more than that, like multiples of that

    Click to expand…

    For housing yes, its way more (maybe you missed that I excluded housing?). Maybe childcare too, I haven’t priced that outside the bay area. Those are serious, big ticket items.

    In terms of day to day life, I don’t think its much higher? Our food bills aren’t that much more, and our utilities are cheaper, than when we lived in Houston. We don’t eat out. Other major expenses are relatively standard across the country: cell phone bills, internet, flights for seeing family. Gas is more, but as mentioned we optimized our commute, so a $50 tank from costco every two weeks is no big deal. What are you thinking is 30-50% more than other cities?

    Edited for clarity.

    #238587 Reply
    Liked by fatlittlepig
    Avatar Tim 
    Participant
    Status: Accountant
    Posts: 3380
    Joined: 09/18/2018

    “Here, it might take you a few years ramping up.”
    The problem is ramping up is typically not transportable.
    A minor point, the taxes are a real thing too when comparing outside of Ca. Who knows what a family of 3 actually spends?

    https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=United+States&city1=Oakland%2C+CA&country2=United+States&city2=Dallas%2C+TX

    Bargains anywhere are different. It’s more than 20% for sure.

    #238592 Reply
    Avatar danesgod 
    Participant
    Status: Spouse
    Posts: 77
    Joined: 09/12/2017

    “Here, it might take you a few years ramping up.”
    The problem is ramping up is typically not transportable.
    A minor point, the taxes are a real thing too when comparing outside of Ca. Who knows what a family of 3 actually spends?

    https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=United+States&city1=Oakland%2C+CA&country2=United+States&city2=Dallas%2C+TX

    Bargains anywhere are different. It’s more than 20% for sure.

    Click to expand…

    Based on that it looks like I was pretty close? I threw out rent, admitting it was WAY more.

    Consumer Prices in Dallas, TX are 15.21% lower than in Oakland, CA

    Restaurant Prices in Dallas, TX are 5.25% lower than in Oakland, CA

    Groceries Prices in Dallas, TX are 20.61% lower than in Oakland, CA

    My original claim was 10-20%. Also, is childcare in Oakland really 1k/mo?! I paid ~2k/mo in several locations on the peninsula! That’s a wild difference.

    Also I know exactly what a family of three spends in Silicon Valley. 🙂

    Edit: yes, taxes are way higher! i did forget that, i’ve been living with it for a long time.

    #238596 Reply
    Liked by Tim
    Hank Hank 
    Moderator
    Status: Attorney
    Posts: 1477
    Joined: 03/27/2017

    I live in California and pay the sunshine tax.  We also seem to pay a lot of other taxes to Sacramento.

    You could get a much larger house in a good school district, pay less in taxes, and likely have a higher income in Dallas.  Assuming the grandparents are at or near retirement, it’s a 30 minute Uber from Danville to Oakland international airport.  Direct flights on Southwest are going for $77 one way from OAK to DFW.  You could pay for an awful lot of tickets for the grandparents or for the grandkids with the difference in salary and taxes between Texas and the Bay Area.  You also still would be near a major international airport, good schools, cultural stuff to do, etc.

    If you do want to work and live close to the in-laws, you might want to look at salaries, commute time, cost of housing, and drive time to the grandparents if you live in the Sacramento area.  Housing is cheaper, taxes still are terrible, but you’re that much closer to Tahoe compared to living in the Bay Area.

    If you do insist on living in the East Bay, I’d consider Piedmont or somewhere within walking distance of the BART so you actually get into San Francisco on the weekends and go to the opera and symphony, see the museums, go out to the restaurants, and generally enjoy the cultural amenities that you’re paying so very much to be near.  Plenty of folks in the suburbs near San Francisco, New York, Chicago, or DC pay outlandish amounts for a high cost of living area and then never get into the city to see the things that are baked into their cost of living.  If you’re paying that much to be near a cultural metropolis, make sure you go into the city for date night at least three or four nights per month.  It’d be a shame not to.

    #239064 Reply
    Liked by snowcanyon
    Avatar wcinewbie 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 92
    Joined: 09/30/2017

    Believe me. I also love the idea of geographic arbitrage. However, I’ll tell you job market in DFW is just as bad as anywhere in California. Of course the lack of state income tax is a huge plus.

    #239138 Reply

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