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  • Zaphod Zaphod 
    Participant
    Status: Physician, Small Business Owner
    Posts: 6092
    Joined: 01/12/2016

    I am currently evaluating several possible jobs, employed, private, and a mix of insurance/wRVU style, cash/insurance, and all cash. All very different so compensation stuff is all over the place.

    For the insurance/wRVU stuff Im 98% absolutely ignorant, though it seems pretty simple. I’ve access to MGMA datadive, but not their most recent report. The data dive has some good things but is really lacking in others and much of their “ratios” I cant seem to find out how most of that really matters in a contract negotiation.

    Whats the price of this report? Its not even easy to find out a quick way to buy it on their site.

    #174977 Reply
    Zaphod Zaphod 
    Participant
    Status: Physician, Small Business Owner
    Posts: 6092
    Joined: 01/12/2016

    Well I think I’ve found the 2016 report with 2015 data but I could have sworn I’ve seen references to the 2017/18 one.

    #174979 Reply
    CordMcNally CordMcNally 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 2699
    Joined: 01/03/2017

    It sure doesn’t look like they’re very upfront with the pricing as the best I can find is this, MGMA, which wants you to submit information and then they contact you to discuss pricing.

    “But investing isn’t about beating others at their game. It’s about controlling yourself at your own game.”
    ― Benjamin Graham, The Intelligent Investor

    #174982 Reply
    Liked by Zaphod
    ENT Doc ENT Doc 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 3458
    Joined: 01/14/2017

    Well I think I’ve found the 2016 report with 2015 data but I could have sworn I’ve seen references to the 2017/18 one.

    Click to expand…

    What specific metrics are you looking for?  There are different reports, and you have to call for a price.  They price it out based on your group size and intended use.  You get access to any given year of data based on the level of detail your practice provides to MGMA.  Purchasing the reports gives you access to 3 years of all the data (current, past, next).  People have posted various wRVU data but typically for IM or FM.  They’re not the only ones doing this.  AMGA has data out for 2014:

    http://physiciancompensation.org/PDFs/2015RSPWB/2015Survey.pdf

    #174986 Reply
    Liked by angeladiaz99
    Zaphod Zaphod 
    Participant
    Status: Physician, Small Business Owner
    Posts: 6092
    Joined: 01/12/2016

    I spoke with someone finally. Such an archaic system. They email some disclaimer or whatever, you agree, you buy, etc…just put it on the store with disclaimer and make it accessible. Annoying.

    I cant say I know enough to know what to look for, I just want to see everything to be able to compare the hospital type offer to whats standard/normal/average/good/bad. Since Im currently in an all cash practice these things are very foreign to me.

    #174999 Reply
    ENT Doc ENT Doc 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 3458
    Joined: 01/14/2017

    I spoke with someone finally. Such an archaic system. They email some disclaimer or whatever, you agree, you buy, etc…just put it on the store with disclaimer and make it accessible. Annoying.

    I cant say I know enough to know what to look for, I just want to see everything to be able to compare the hospital type offer to whats standard/normal/average/good/bad. Since Im currently in an all cash practice these things are very foreign to me.

    Click to expand…

    There are 4 reports – the one you probably want is the compensation data.  Knowing the median salary for your specialty in your region will be helpful (though their region breakdown is far from specific…only 4 regions in the US), but if it’s a RVU model you’ll want to know what RVUs the practice supports and that you could expect (this speaks to clinical operations, which is a separate report) combined with the base and $/wRVU.  Then throw in all other benefits to look at total compensation for an apples to apples comparison.  I hope this helps.  I think you’d probably only end up using a small handful of data from any report but would end up paying a lot for it.

    #175008 Reply
    Zaphod Zaphod 
    Participant
    Status: Physician, Small Business Owner
    Posts: 6092
    Joined: 01/12/2016

    I spoke with someone finally. Such an archaic system. They email some disclaimer or whatever, you agree, you buy, etc…just put it on the store with disclaimer and make it accessible. Annoying.

    I cant say I know enough to know what to look for, I just want to see everything to be able to compare the hospital type offer to whats standard/normal/average/good/bad. Since Im currently in an all cash practice these things are very foreign to me.

    Click to expand…

    There are 4 reports – the one you probably want is the compensation data.  Knowing the median salary for your specialty in your region will be helpful (though their region breakdown is far from specific…only 4 regions in the US), but if it’s a RVU model you’ll want to know what RVUs the practice supports and that you could expect (this speaks to clinical operations, which is a separate report) combined with the base and $/wRVU.  Then throw in all other benefits to look at total compensation for an apples to apples comparison.  I hope this helps.  I think you’d probably only end up using a small handful of data from any report but would end up paying a lot for it.

    Click to expand…

    Yeah. I actually have access to most of the mgma stuff, was just wondering if I should get the full thing, probably shouldnt on second thought.

    I just find it hard comparing salary/productivity and signing bonus type stuff, using wRVU makes it simpler but you still have some benefits to account for and “total” compensation includes . The offer seems ok, the base is lower than what I know was offered to people in the last couple years, but since its straight $wRVU, its not really a big deal as its simply productivity and the work is there. Signing bonus is nice, but again, lower than what I know to have been given, and they want to place an additional portion of non compete on me (no private practice, which they hadnt done before, really an oversight) for their protection (so much for their standard talk ofc).

    Just seems kind of ho hum to me overall. I’d be traveling across the country, working more, etc…for basically similar pay, much less per hour, call, however demand is nearly unlimited so theres that but of course comes at a cost. Exiting the slave to the economic cycle would be a plus as well. Huge upside would be working with friends I trust 100%, some new stuff which could be intellectually fun, but then again I know what they signed for…

    Recruiting person gave me the ‘its all standard, you could get a lawyer but they wont change things so…”.

    #175025 Reply
    ENT Doc ENT Doc 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 3458
    Joined: 01/14/2017

    I spoke with someone finally. Such an archaic system. They email some disclaimer or whatever, you agree, you buy, etc…just put it on the store with disclaimer and make it accessible. Annoying.

    I cant say I know enough to know what to look for, I just want to see everything to be able to compare the hospital type offer to whats standard/normal/average/good/bad. Since Im currently in an all cash practice these things are very foreign to me.

    Click to expand…

    There are 4 reports – the one you probably want is the compensation data.  Knowing the median salary for your specialty in your region will be helpful (though their region breakdown is far from specific…only 4 regions in the US), but if it’s a RVU model you’ll want to know what RVUs the practice supports and that you could expect (this speaks to clinical operations, which is a separate report) combined with the base and $/wRVU.  Then throw in all other benefits to look at total compensation for an apples to apples comparison.  I hope this helps.  I think you’d probably only end up using a small handful of data from any report but would end up paying a lot for it.

    Click to expand…

    Yeah. I actually have access to most of the mgma stuff, was just wondering if I should get the full thing, probably shouldnt on second thought.

    I just find it hard comparing salary/productivity and signing bonus type stuff, using wRVU makes it simpler but you still have some benefits to account for and “total” compensation includes . The offer seems ok, the base is lower than what I know was offered to people in the last couple years, but since its straight $wRVU, its not really a big deal as its simply productivity and the work is there. Signing bonus is nice, but again, lower than what I know to have been given, and they want to place an additional portion of non compete on me (no private practice, which they hadnt done before, really an oversight) for their protection (so much for their standard talk ofc).

    Just seems kind of ho hum to me overall. I’d be traveling across the country, working more, etc…for basically similar pay, much less per hour, call, however demand is nearly unlimited so theres that but of course comes at a cost. Exiting the slave to the economic cycle would be a plus as well. Huge upside would be working with friends I trust 100%, some new stuff which could be intellectually fun, but then again I know what they signed for…

    Recruiting person gave me the ‘its all standard, you could get a lawyer but they wont change things so…”.

    Click to expand…

    Seems weird to not offer you what you know to have been offered.  Sounds like there’s room for negotiation.

    Traveling across country?  Did you mean the county?

    #175036 Reply
    Zaphod Zaphod 
    Participant
    Status: Physician, Small Business Owner
    Posts: 6092
    Joined: 01/12/2016

    Maybe they dont know what I know? Which seems odd given these guys have basically recruited me to the position in the first place. Otoh, since its straight $/wRVU its really a placeholder, but its the look of it.

    Definitely across country, almost full west to east coast (but not quite).

    Their 403(b) safe harbor plan also apparently maxes out at 14k match possible which is lame.

    The admin has new money people and maybe they are trying to get better deals in the contract area and save money, but they’re in no way shape or form in any position to be doing anything else but pay a premium for people. Sometimes these up/coming places err when they bring in people from desirable areas and they attempt to apply the same constraints in the new but undesirable place. You’re just not going to be pulling people with average or sub par contracts.

    Its not terrible, but in the context of where they are, etc…doesnt feel strong. Big upside is I can work a lot and make a lot, but that means you’re working a lot of course.

    I think moving across the country and such, big decision. I have zero ties to my current area, but doesnt feel like as much geographic arbitrage as I was expecting (given what my friends were given). wRVU is the same, but baseline (-11%) and signing slightly lower (-40%).

    #175051 Reply
    Avatar BlueCollarMD 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 19
    Joined: 08/20/2018

    Negotiate

    Don’t listen to the recruiter

    $/wRVU may be difficult to move, but if you have current pay to show them, it is a good place to start.

    Signing bonus is frequently negotiable, since it is one-time and doesn’t necessarily affect internal pay equity issues. Discuss distance, actual relocation costs etc.

    If not ready to jump, string them along and let them see how their recruitment efforts go, there may be a learning curve.

    Good luck!

    #175221 Reply
    Liked by Zaphod
    childay childay 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 990
    Joined: 01/09/2016

    I would imagine the 2015 report is not dramatically different than the more recent.  Be sure your $/wRVU conversion factor is favorable.

    #175281 Reply

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