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Kaiser Limits on Side Gigs

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  • Avatar nephron 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 67
    Joined: 05/09/2019

    some side gigs can be very lucrative.   You can make 10K and more just for a deposition and a day of testimony for a med malpractice case.    I would just run it by administration if that’s what you want to do.   I don’t know anything about Kaiser, but they probably just want to make sure you aren’t doing anything that will interfere with your time with them or won’t influence any decisions you make with them (ie probably no on the drug company talks for the drugs that you use).

    #219194 Reply
    fatlittlepig fatlittlepig 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 750
    Joined: 01/26/2017

    some side gigs can be very lucrative.   You can make 10K and more just for a deposition and a day of testimony for a med malpractice case.    I would just run it by administration if that’s what you want to do.   I don’t know anything about Kaiser, but they probably just want to make sure you aren’t doing anything that will interfere with your time with them or won’t influence any decisions you make with them (ie probably no on the drug company talks for the drugs that you use).

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    LOL, i guess if you are an expert or thought leader in your field and are willing to get involved in some other doctor’s malpractice case this would be the exception to the rule. I think less than 1% of physicians would fall into this category.

    #219198 Reply
    Avatar nephron 
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    Status: Physician
    Posts: 67
    Joined: 05/09/2019

    No that’s the problem.  They get these private practice guys just willing to say anything to make a buck, its very lucrative but not very ethical.

    #219218 Reply
    Avatar Morbo 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 15
    Joined: 04/10/2019

    Ethics aside , I’m fairly certain that wouldn’t be allowed either. Anything side job that has “Physician” as a prerequisite is going to require clearance .

    #219226 Reply
    IntensiveCareBear IntensiveCareBear 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 162
    Joined: 12/22/2018

    Working a second or third job that pays less than your primary job is not an efficient use of your time. If money’s the issue work an extra couple of units a month or more, otherwise enjoy your time off. Side gigs or side hustles are not meant for highly paid physicians.

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    What are your thoughts on this website as a side gig?  I guess WCI should have just worked more ER shifts.

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    People work for many more reasons than money, man. Also, not every doc or professional can simply pick up more shifts/clients.

    I doubt WCI makes as much per hour selling ads and books as he does working ER, but he might someday. I’m sure that is the goal. So, yeah, he should just work more ER shifts if it were all about the money per FLP logic? That’s up to WCI. For most people doing a side business (entrepreneur style, anyways), it’s not about the money in the beginning. I know a PhD chemist who retired and now runs an awesome yoga studio, semi-retired attorneys who do a bike shop, etc. I know many docs who do blogs or youtube that barely anyone probably reads yet they find therapeutic. A lot of others own franchise restaurants, gas stations, laundromats, party stores, hotels, and basically anything you can think of. Some engineers make and sell visual art or woodworking or whatever. Heck, Vanilla Ice does rehab houses to stay busy instead of just getting drunk and playing video games via cashing royalty checks and playing at bar mitzfahs (sp?).

    Doing meaningful work is a reward in itself. Having control of a business, even a small one, is fun… I enjoy it immensely. If it’s a sales/comm business, it is also social… a good way to get to know people in the community. Having diversified income in case primary income stream was lost is nice peace of mind. There are a million reasons. You always learn in the process, you figure out fairly quick if it is going to generate decent income or not, and sometimes you don’t even care.

    Heck, detailing your own car, mowing your own lawn, painting, etc etc other things you could hire someone for $15/hr are “side hustle.” They can be done yourself if you enjoy them… or paid for if you don’t.

    All that said, if it doesn’t make dollars after a little while, it doesn’t make sense. A side hustle that you don’t enjoy (drivng for Uber for $20/hr when you could make 10x that doing locums) or that loses money is merely a hobby or charity or whatever you want to call it to make yourself feel better.

     

    "Hmm, that sounds risky." - motto of the middle class

    #219227 Reply
    Avatar cocovaii 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 15
    Joined: 05/23/2019

    Well said, IntensiveCareBear

    #219228 Reply
    Avatar cocovaii 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 15
    Joined: 05/23/2019

    I’m actually not a new physician, already a senior for some years now. Just new to the WCI world. I agree that our non-Kaiser free time is indeed very precious. I spend the vast majority of that time with family. But that doesn’t mean I don’t have other goals in life.

    As other posters commented, it’s not all about the money. There can be many reasons for a side hustle, one of which may be personal fulfillment. However if that activity can be monetized in someway, then why not?

    #219229 Reply
    Avatar Morbo 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 15
    Joined: 04/10/2019

    I’m actually not a new physician, already a senior for some years now. Just new to the WCI world. I agree that our non-Kaiser free time is indeed very precious. I spend the vast majority of that time with family. But that doesn’t mean I don’t have other goals in life.

    As other posters commented, it’s not all about the money. There can be many reasons for a side hustle, one of which may be personal fulfillment. However if that activity can be monetized in someway, then why not?

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    Sure, there’s no problem with it.  If you have an idea that you enjoy, you should definitely go for it.

    I think you may not get a whole lot of ideas from Kaiser docs though, since we’re typically not people with a lot of entrepreneurial spirit, lol.  You may just want to start a more general discussion to get ideas, then figure out which ones will fly in terms of admin.  Though again, anything that requires you to be a physician in order to make it work will probably be a no-go.  It will probably need to be something like blogging, art/music, non-medical apps/software, etc.

    #219234 Reply
    fatlittlepig fatlittlepig 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 750
    Joined: 01/26/2017

    Working a second or third job that pays less than your primary job is not an efficient use of your time. If money’s the issue work an extra couple of units a month or more, otherwise enjoy your time off. Side gigs or side hustles are not meant for highly paid physicians.

    Click to expand…

    What are your thoughts on this website as a side gig?  I guess WCI should have just worked more ER shifts.

    Click to expand…

    People work for many more reasons than money, man. Also, not every doc or professional can simply pick up more shifts/clients.

    I doubt WCI makes as much per hour selling ads and books as he does working ER, but he might someday. I’m sure that is the goal. So, yeah, he should just work more ER shifts if it were all about the money per FLP logic? That’s up to WCI. For most people doing a side business (entrepreneur style, anyways), it’s not about the money in the beginning. I know a PhD chemist who retired and now runs an awesome yoga studio, semi-retired attorneys who do a bike shop, etc. I know many docs who do blogs or youtube that barely anyone probably reads yet they find therapeutic. A lot of others own franchise restaurants, gas stations, laundromats, party stores, hotels, and basically anything you can think of. Some engineers make and sell visual art or woodworking or whatever. Heck, Vanilla Ice does rehab houses to stay busy instead of just getting drunk and playing video games via cashing royalty checks and playing at bar mitzfahs (sp?).

    Doing meaningful work is a reward in itself. Having control of a business, even a small one, is fun… I enjoy it immensely. If it’s a sales/comm business, it is also social… a good way to get to know people in the community. Having diversified income in case primary income stream was lost is nice peace of mind. There are a million reasons. You always learn in the process, you figure out fairly quick if it is going to generate decent income or not, and sometimes you don’t even care.

    Heck, detailing your own car, mowing your own lawn, painting, etc etc other things you could hire someone for $15/hr are “side hustle.” They can be done yourself if you enjoy them… or paid for if you don’t.

    All that said, if it doesn’t make dollars after a little while, it doesn’t make sense. A side hustle that you don’t enjoy (drivng for Uber for $20/hr when you could make 10x that doing locums) or that loses money is merely a hobby or charity or whatever you want to call it to make yourself feel better.

     

    Click to expand…

    Nah, no thanks. Any free time that i have is spent with my family and with outside pursuits. no reviewing charts or messing around with weird side hustles for fatlittlepig.

    #219237 Reply
    Avatar AR 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 699
    Joined: 03/10/2016

    Because some side hustles can be done in the comfort of your home while watching TV OR can lead to newer better opportunities OR be done at your pace, whether that is 15min at a time or all day long. There is freedom in that choice.

    This is opposed to doing more units at work that require you to drive in at hours you might not want to and commit yourself to an 8-12 hour block of time. And frankly maybe I want to earn more but don’t want to spend more time at work.

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    you must be a newer physician. i think you will soon realize how precious your free time is. trust me, you are not going to want to spend your non work time trying to scrounge for some extra dollars. the amount of money you make as a physician is so large that an extra shift or two will be more than you could ever make doing any sort of silly side hustle. to the poster referencing a blog or website as a side hustle, again very silly, vast vast majority of blogs make peanuts or (no peanuts) again very poor use of your time if your intention is to make extra dough.

     

    Click to expand…

    So, to be clear, you’re saying that the WCI website is a “silly” side hustle?  Not sure why you feel the need to be so oblique about it.

    #219316 Reply
    Avatar AR 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 699
    Joined: 03/10/2016
    People work for many more reasons than money, man. Also, not every doc or professional can simply pick up more shifts/clients. I doubt WCI makes as much per hour selling ads and books as he does working ER, but he might someday. I’m sure that is the goal. So, yeah, he should just work more ER shifts if it were all about the money per FLP logic? That’s up to WCI. For most people doing a side business (entrepreneur style, anyways), it’s not about the money in the beginning. I know a PhD chemist who retired and now runs an awesome yoga studio, semi-retired attorneys who do a bike shop, etc. I know many docs who do blogs or youtube that barely anyone probably reads yet they find therapeutic. A lot of others own franchise restaurants, gas stations, laundromats, party stores, hotels, and basically anything you can think of. Some engineers make and sell visual art or woodworking or whatever. Heck, Vanilla Ice does rehab houses to stay busy instead of just getting drunk and playing video games via cashing royalty checks and playing at bar mitzfahs (sp?). Doing meaningful work is a reward in itself. Having control of a business, even a small one, is fun… I enjoy it immensely. If it’s a sales/comm business, it is also social… a good way to get to know people in the community. Having diversified income in case primary income stream was lost is nice peace of mind. There are a million reasons. You always learn in the process, you figure out fairly quick if it is going to generate decent income or not, and sometimes you don’t even care. Heck, detailing your own car, mowing your own lawn, painting, etc etc other things you could hire someone for $15/hr are “side hustle.” They can be done yourself if you enjoy them… or paid for if you don’t. All that said, if it doesn’t make dollars after a little while, it doesn’t make sense. A side hustle that you don’t enjoy (drivng for Uber for $20/hr when you could make 10x that doing locums) or that loses money is merely a hobby or charity or whatever you want to call it to make yourself feel better.

    Click to expand…

    I was curious how long it would take fatlittlepig to realize above. I suppose it’s faster if you give him the answer.

    Also with respect to bolded, I think that his hourly on WCI may have exceeded his real job already.  I think he has blogged about this but I’m too lazy to go back and look.

    #219318 Reply
    Liked by hatton1
    Lordosis Lordosis 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 959
    Joined: 02/11/2019

    I think WCI is the exception.  How many physician blogs are out there?  How long did it take Jim to turn a profit?  How much effort did that require?

    I imagine he worked incredibly hard at it for many years with little prospect that it was going to amount to anything.  I bet if you went back in time and told 2011 Jim that his blog was going to be what it is today he would laugh at his future self in disbelief.  And asking his future self about who is the present day president would not help give him any more credibility either!      Trump?!?! the Real estate mogul?  *Slams door*

     

    I think side hustles have a place if you enjoy the work or they offer some other kind of benefit like ability to work when you normally could not or work from home if you so desire.  But I do agree with FLP that if it is all about the money then use that MD to its fullest and spend your free time on a hobby or with your family.

    “Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right.”

    #219331 Reply
    Liked by fatlittlepig
    Avatar RosieQ 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 165
    Joined: 06/03/2017

    Specific to Kaiser docs, some friends working there try and find attractive admin stuff to get buy down on your time. Supervise med student rotations get 2/10, run a culture follow up program, take patient calls from home for telemedicine or EPRP etc. Most of them try and work about 7/10-8/10 clinical and then a Kaiser arranged “something else” with buy down that takes a few years to optimize. Then you get full credit towards the pension and still earn doctor money. The key is to negotiate and be sure your salary credit is appropriate for the work load involved.

    If you own a home learning some construction can really save doctor levels of money. With this hot market I just paid 3k for someone to set up a concrete slab for a pour. Now that I’ve seen it done it was pretty easy with sand/gravel and rebar. I paid materials and the guy who installed it made $150 an hour (at least partially due to efficiency as a good worker and knowing exactly what to do). And this was after interviewing 5 other people who gave outrageous bids into the 20k range and most didn’t even bid or return my calls. Doing some handiwork or anything that saves you money at home especially if it involves some hard work or physical fitness can be well worth it. It’s not earning extra, but I feel like activities to save a dollar are twice as valuable because that’s after tax money out of your pocket.

    #219354 Reply
    Avatar cocovaii 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 15
    Joined: 05/23/2019

    Thanks RosieQ, for the additional options within Kaiser. I had forgotten about EPRP, although the hospitalists hate them! 😆 I didn’t know about the telemedicine option within Kaiser though. Is this like the physicians work through the advice call center? Will have to explore….

    Morbo, you hit the nail on the head with the comment about Kaiser docs typically not being entrepreneurial. Many are of the flavor of “put your head down and get your work done so you can go home.” Unfortunately I feel that this leads to more hopelessness and burnout because Kaiser docs have limited options for income sources due to the contract rules. I have seen many colleagues go through this burnout and experienced this directly several times in my Kaiser career already. I have felt trapped by the golden handcuffs of the retirement plans and not in a good way. I remember in one of the benefits seminars that the chipper financial advisor leading the group stated “If you’re having a bad day at work, just log in to your Fidelity account so you can feel better!”

    But I see a fair number of colleagues that have a zombie-like approach at work, looking so beaten down coming to work (and I’ve felt that way myself). Having other income sources can be an antidote to this. However FLP’s dismissal of “weird side gigs” is actually a common behavior pattern I have seen at Kaiser, where innovative ideas can be shot down if they are not in line with the “Kaiser group think.” I’m not sure if this behavior is due to drinking the Koolaid or it is some intentional malignancy in order to keep the troops in line, like a hazing of sorts.

    There are definite benefits to working at Kaiser but it is not without its drawbacks.

    #220103 Reply
    wonka31 wonka31 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 605
    Joined: 03/24/2018

    I agree with FLP if it’s a money issue as these typically pay far less than your hourly rate. However, I have a side hustle that pays me about half of my hourly rate. I did it more as an income diversification tool, to learn a new skill and because I like the work. The extra money is nice, but is far from a game changer for me or my lifestyle. I think the side hustle thing is kind of overplayed, but it totally depends on why you’re doing it. If you want diversification of your work, to learn a new skill or because you simply like doing it, I say go for it. If you need money, work extra clinical hours as a physician.

    #220104 Reply
    Liked by Vagabond MD, Tim

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