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Investing in Wine

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  • wonka31 wonka31 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 557
    Joined: 03/24/2018

    This guy made a fortunate and so can you. Don’t let these negative posters above mle ruin your dream. : )

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.winemag.com/2017/08/14/how-rudy-kurniawan-fooled-the-wine-world/amp/

    #213189 Reply
    Liked by tex
    Zzyzx Zzyzx 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 139
    Joined: 09/24/2018

    I was wondering if anyone has experience investing in the wine industry.

    Vineyards or wineries?

    Funds?

    Startups or tech?

    Auctions?

    Click to expand…

    total money sink

    people in this industry:  have too much money and don’t care how much they burn (jarvis estate), inherited it (but many families are selling out to big corp, Heitz), career winemakers wanting to do their own thing (many in oregon started from UCD grad program & Napa)

    It’s psychosomatic. You need a lobotomy. I’ll get a saw.

    #213231 Reply
    Avatar Tangler 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 187
    Joined: 08/23/2018

    Wine is taxed at collectibles rates.

    Vineyards are a great way to lose money if you aren’t into flying, boats, horses, or divorces.

    Click to expand…

    I heard the same. I know a doc who was doing great. Wine was he and his wife’s passion. They were really into it. They bought a vineyard and lost a ton of cash. His wife is an amazing business person (successful CEO type person) and she was joking with me when I had dinner with them one time. She said it was the best way she has ever seen to lose money. They still do it. Still love it. And yes, they still are losing money.

    #213244 Reply
    Avatar Dr P 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 38
    Joined: 08/06/2016

    Thanks for the thoughts.  Yeah, this may stay as a hobby.

    #213271 Reply
    Liked by Vagabond MD
    Craigy Craigy 
    Participant
    Status: Spouse
    Posts: 1866
    Joined: 09/16/2016

    Theres an easy not quite living room friendly joke here, that is all.

    Click to expand…

    What happens when Jim’s kids grow up?  Can we tell our jokes or what?

    LEVEL 1 WCI FORUM MEMBER.

    #213494 Reply
    Avatar nutty08 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 24
    Joined: 09/05/2017

    I’ll admit I’m a bit of a wine guy. In fact, my 401k only recently eclipsed the value of my wine collection. But it’s just a hobby and I don’t view it as an investment. I plan on enjoying it and no current plans to selling. While there is appreciation, it’s just too illiquid and no an efficient investment vehicle. I think investing in cars would be similar. You have to have a environmentally controlled place, upkeep, and if you decide you want to sell you may need a middle man. Not to mention laws governing alcohol and taxes.

    That being said there if a fund on the London exchange–though I’m forgetting the name at this time. I recall it having a very high expense ratio.

    I’ve sold wine at auction and payed 10-15% in auction fees.

     

    A couple of links for more info:

    London wine exchange:

    Home

     

    Wine forum where this was discussed and analyzed:

    https://www.wineberserkers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=156731&p=2637219&hilit=investing#p2634347

     

     

     

    #213651 Reply
    Liked by Craigy, mapplebum, G, RosieQ
    Avatar RosieQ 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 164
    Joined: 06/03/2017
    Disability Insurance

    The best way to make a million dollars in the wine business is to spend 10 million.

    In all seriousness, the only good “easy” investment with overall low return would be to get on some of the most exclusive mailing lists (Screaming Eagle, Sin Qua Non, Saxum plus many exclusive European lists etc) and then buy all the bottles offered to you. You could age them perfectly for a few years and then sell them on the secondary market for 20-30%+ profit and make several hundred dollars per bottle. You can also sell them immediately after getting them off the mailing list for a more modest profit. Not worth it for me.

    #213668 Reply
    Liked by Craigy, G
    Avatar G 
    Participant
    Status: Physician, Small Business Owner
    Posts: 1463
    Joined: 01/08/2016
    exclusive mailing lists

    Click to expand…

    Interesting, and good point.  I “won” a lottery to buy a bottle of scotch for ~$670, resale was 1500 immediately, and I saw a bottle sell recently (a year or so out) for 2k.  Kinda cool.  Even cooler: my wife didn’t bat an eye when I told her the purchase price…I’ve officially worn her down!

    #213743 Reply
    Liked by Zaphod, RosieQ
    Avatar mapplebum 
    Participant
    Status: Spouse
    Posts: 229
    Joined: 04/17/2018

    I’ll admit I’m a bit of a wine guy. In fact, my 401k only recently eclipsed the value of my wine collection. But it’s just a hobby and I don’t view it as an investment. I plan on enjoying it and no current plans to selling. While there is appreciation, it’s just too illiquid and no an efficient investment vehicle. I think investing in cars would be similar. You have to have a environmentally controlled place, upkeep, and if you decide you want to sell you may need a middle man. Not to mention laws governing alcohol and taxes.

    That being said there if a fund on the London exchange–though I’m forgetting the name at this time. I recall it having a very high expense ratio.

    I’ve sold wine at auction and payed 10-15% in auction fees.

     

    A couple of links for more info:

    London wine exchange:

    Home

     

    Wine forum where this was discussed and analyzed:

    https://www.wineberserkers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=156731&p=2637219&hilit=investing#p2634347

     

     

     

    Click to expand…

    I aspire to your greatness. What have been your go-to’s this spring? For tasting not saving.

    #213794 Reply
    Avatar Dr P 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 38
    Joined: 08/06/2016

    I will definitely check out the wine berserkers.
    I’ve been filling my cellar with mid range bottles that I find discounted with the intention of drinking them at their prime. Enjoying good aged wine that I didn’t spend an arm and a leg for works for me. I’m just always looking for an angle to turn a passion into a business.
    I don’t have the budget nor the climate controlled cellar at this time to consider flipping premium bottles although it’s an interesting idea. What I would really love is to run a wine shop in retirement. But that is only after I’m financially independent given all the risks already mentioned in the thread.

    #213802 Reply
    Avatar Dont_know_mind 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 815
    Joined: 11/21/2017

    Wine and collectibles in general have lower rate of return because some people get intrinsic value from it. The fact that there are some people who are passionate about wine, means they will overpay for it and be underpaid to work in the area or to run a winery.

    I bought some wine during the 1990’s dotcom boom when wine.com was operating. I still have a few cases. The best have increased from $30 to $200. Overall it has been a very below average investment, particularly considering storage costs. There are very few wines that will appreciate beyond 20 years.

    I thought I would have drunk the wine by now, but my consumption is below 3 bottles a year the last few years. Have seen a lot of alcoholic patients. It is an addictive substance and the risk increases with volume and daily use. I find that it doesn’t help my performance the next day, so it has to be quite a special occasion before I will want to kill any brain cells drinking the stuff.

    If I’d spent that 10k on a deposit on an investment property in 1999, rather than a wine collection, it would have been a better investment.

    If you have to collect anything, stick to collecting used toilet paper rolls, it cheaper and who knows, could become a fad one day – wishful thinking, but as hey, as likely I think as your collected wine yielding a good return over decades. Collecting I suspect appeals to our hoarding and obsessive instincts. And it’s nice looking over your wine/toilet paper/other collection and counting/rearranging/looking at/storing etc and thinking ‘wow, I really have a nice collection’. The reality though…

    #213827 Reply
    Avatar G 
    Participant
    Status: Physician, Small Business Owner
    Posts: 1463
    Joined: 01/08/2016

    ‘wow, I really have a nice collection’

    Click to expand…

    Quite similar to the basket of stocks over at my brokerage account….

    edit: as the parent of a gradeschooler, there is ALWAYS a need for toilet paper rolls.

    #213856 Reply
    Liked by Lordosis

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