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  • Avatar wideopenspaces 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 978
    Joined: 01/12/2016

    A couple thoughts . . .

    This forum is generally drama free. Which I like. However that means it’s not super well equipped to deal with drama. I hang out on a mom forum and we have very specific rules to deal with drama. The best one is that you can’t take drama from one thread and take it to another. I think this thread was a good idea with good intentions but it became about the previous thread. If OP wasn’t “justified” or whatever, in her feelings before this thread, she certainly would be now. There have been some very unkind comments on this thread and quite frankly I think it should be shut down. Clearly just my opinion though.

    The second thing is that it’s never a bad idea to do some self reflection when we hurt someone’s feelings, wether it was intentional or not. That’s how we grow as humans. I engage in this process all the time, with my patients, my husband, my kids, my friends and even random people on the internet. I lose nothing by doing so. I gain nothing from assuming it’s the other person’s problem.

    #220619 Reply
    MPMD MPMD 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 2158
    Joined: 05/01/2017

     

    Click to expand…

    Eh…how on earth is that any different? The interwebs is not a place of formal logical argument, and when we say ad hominem we mean personal attack. Which, by no stretch of the imagination it is. You (figurative for explanation sake) are calling that persons character into question and saying they are lying essentially only for a rise. This effectively kills any substantive discussion about their topic, so its the same. There is no difference in this example and the butt face one.

    As an aside, I think you can place your base rate for trolling a finance forum with physician related questions to near zero, and the times you get caught up in a type 2 error will be worth not committing a ton of type 1 errors. Who cares if you’re taken by a troll or two? Thats not a big deal, so what, cost of playing. Its much worse IMO to slap that title and effectively shut down a line of questioning or inquiry before it starts. Its a decision about what is more costly, our egos or not helping someone learn something.

     

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    Well when people started thinking about the concept of a logical fallacy obviously there was no anonymity and trolling wasn’t really possible in the same way.

    I don’t really think considering if someone is trolling is questioning their character. You are either wrong or you are right. If you are wrong you are wrong. This happens all the time with WLI salespeople esp on the comments section of blog posts. Things go around and around for a bit and then it comes out that they sell cash value life insurance. That’s far from ad hominen it’s them failing to disclose motives.

    The whole concept of trolling is that it isn’t even a serious attempt at an argument so, contra a troll do logical fallacies even apply? Philosophers will debate this.

    #220634 Reply
    Zaphod Zaphod 
    Participant
    Status: Physician, Small Business Owner
    Posts: 5756
    Joined: 01/12/2016

     

    Click to expand…

    Eh…how on earth is that any different? The interwebs is not a place of formal logical argument, and when we say ad hominem we mean personal attack. Which, by no stretch of the imagination it is. You (figurative for explanation sake) are calling that persons character into question and saying they are lying essentially only for a rise. This effectively kills any substantive discussion about their topic, so its the same. There is no difference in this example and the butt face one.

    As an aside, I think you can place your base rate for trolling a finance forum with physician related questions to near zero, and the times you get caught up in a type 2 error will be worth not committing a ton of type 1 errors. Who cares if you’re taken by a troll or two? Thats not a big deal, so what, cost of playing. Its much worse IMO to slap that title and effectively shut down a line of questioning or inquiry before it starts. Its a decision about what is more costly, our egos or not helping someone learn something.

     

    Click to expand…

    Well when people started thinking about the concept of a logical fallacy obviously there was no anonymity and trolling wasn’t really possible in the same way.

    I don’t really think considering if someone is trolling is questioning their character. You are either wrong or you are right. If you are wrong you are wrong. This happens all the time with WLI salespeople esp on the comments section of blog posts. Things go around and around for a bit and then it comes out that they sell cash value life insurance. That’s far from ad hominen it’s them failing to disclose motives.

    The whole concept of trolling is that it isn’t even a serious attempt at an argument so, contra a troll do logical fallacies even apply? Philosophers will debate this.

    Click to expand…

    Sure, but this is your personal take on it. As we know, what we think about anything, is not the way others may think it. It depends on the context. In the context of some of the above, I would take it personally. All of this is in regards to say a brand new poster, I feel pretty comfy with the regulars and dont worry about that.

    The concept of trolling is that its bait, a purposefully crafted response to elicit a big reaction from people. I really really doubt people come on here and get their kicks out of firing up some finance nerds with certain questions.

    The couple times I’ve seen the trolling accusation its not been appropriate in my view (which is again just my opinion, could be wrong). Again, with the point being to help people on this site, the bar to offense or even trolling is higher to me. Id rather be made a fool than shut down a real question.

    I mean people do have terrible situations and from an experienced persons point of view the dumbest of questions, I’ve certainly been there on various topics. You still want to encourage them however.

    I like the idea we’ve recently thrown around, try not to get six pages in of guessing before you get an update, then theres not so much speculation, etc…

    #220635 Reply
    Zaphod Zaphod 
    Participant
    Status: Physician, Small Business Owner
    Posts: 5756
    Joined: 01/12/2016

     

    The second thing is that it’s never a bad idea to do some self reflection when we hurt someone’s feelings, whether it was intentional or not. That’s how we grow as humans. I engage in this process all the time, with my patients, my husband, my kids, my friends and even random people on the internet. I lose nothing by doing so. I gain nothing from assuming it’s the other person’s problem.

    Click to expand…

    Yes, this is the short version of what I am trying to say. thanks

    #220636 Reply
    hatton1 hatton1 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 2981
    Joined: 01/11/2016

    Should we ban the term troll?

    #220664 Reply
    Avatar Brains428 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 249
    Joined: 11/09/2017

    In defense of my child asking different parents for different answers. I thought it was funny and relatively benign. Also, that comment was on page 4 without a comment from the OP so I figured it was off the rails anyway.

    Can’t we all just get along?

    #220669 Reply
    jfoxcpacfp jfoxcpacfp 
    Moderator
    Status: Financial Advisor, Accountant, Small Business Owner
    Posts: 7523
    Joined: 01/09/2016
    medical school scholarship sponsor

    Can’t we all just get along?

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    Can’t we all just get back to work saving lives and taxes? This introspection and navel gazing seems to have gone a bit far😁🙏.

    Johanna Fox Turner, CPA, CFP, Fox Wealth Mgmt & Fox CPAs ~ 270-247-0555
    https://fox-cpas.com/for-doctors-only/

    #220670 Reply
    Avatar Kamban 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 2260
    Joined: 08/01/2016
    Can’t we all just get back to work saving lives and taxes? This introspection and navel gazing seems to have gone a bit far😁🙏.

    Click to expand…

    I think this thread is starting to meander aimlessly and probably has run its course. I am concerned that someone might make some comments that might hurt someone or scare off newcomers from posting. If the latter occurs that might make it a closed club of regulars, which is what WCI doesn’t want.

    I agree with @wideopenspaces that it is might be time to close this mainly because new ideas are unlikely to occur, and the risk is more than the benefits with keeping it open.

    #220676 Reply
    jfoxcpacfp jfoxcpacfp 
    Moderator
    Status: Financial Advisor, Accountant, Small Business Owner
    Posts: 7523
    Joined: 01/09/2016

    Alrighty, agree and closing down.

    Johanna Fox Turner, CPA, CFP, Fox Wealth Mgmt & Fox CPAs ~ 270-247-0555
    https://fox-cpas.com/for-doctors-only/

    #220685 Reply

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