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  • Avatar jhwkr542 
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    @jhwkr542, the apparent arbiter of all that is mean and inconsiderate

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    Please point out where I gave any judgment to your post. I tried to find what posts from that thread may have been misconstrued as a personal attack and posted them here. I want to know if other people find any of these offensive. Most posts here seem to comment on the overall assertions of that OP getting upset over the disagreement of opinion, and that’s not what happened. I’m trying to steer the conversation back towards what happened and the initial premise of this thread.

    This isn’t the first thread where this has happened. Heck, there’s even a beginner’s category on the forum for people to post basic questions.

    #220472 Reply
    CordMcNally CordMcNally 
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    I tried to find what posts from that thread may have been misconstrued as a personal attack and posted them here. I want to know if other people find any of these offensive. Most posts here seem to comment on the overall assertions of that OP getting upset over the disagreement of opinion, and that’s not what happened. I’m trying to steer the conversation back towards what happened and the initial premise of this thread.

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    I just have a hard time seeing where those posts you mentioned are offensive, let alone considered personal attacks.

    “But investing isn’t about beating others at their game. It’s about controlling yourself at your own game.”
    ― Benjamin Graham, The Intelligent Investor

    #220482 Reply
    Liked by MaxPower, hatton1
    MPMD MPMD 
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    It would be SUPER meta if this thread got locked by the mods.

    super meta.

    Avatar jacoavlu 
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    really, are we going to have to moderate this thread? talk about irony, I’ve already deleted posts here

    The Finance Buff's solo 401k contribution spreadsheet: https://goo.gl/6cZKVA

    #220490 Reply
    CM CM 
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    Status: Physician
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    I’d like to bring up the said posts that I think the OP here likely took offense to and see what the general feelings are over them.

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    I thought things got a little chippy by page 3 when the OP didn’t respond to comments, but good grief, the worst you can say about those posts is that they were impolite and/or off topic.

    I’ve been irritated by responses to some of my posts on internet forums (though usually not here), but I just move on. Have you ever read comment threads on YouTube? That’s the real world. This forum is a Victorian drawing room tea party by comparison.

    Erstwhile Dance Theatre of Dayton performer cum bellhop. Carried bags for Cyd Charisse (gracious). Hosted epic company parties after Friday night rehearsals.

    Avatar jhwkr542 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
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    Joined: 02/15/2016
    I tried to find what posts from that thread may have been misconstrued as a personal attack and posted them here. I want to know if other people find any of these offensive. Most posts here seem to comment on the overall assertions of that OP getting upset over the disagreement of opinion, and that’s not what happened. I’m trying to steer the conversation back towards what happened and the initial premise of this thread.

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    I just have a hard time seeing where those posts you mentioned are offensive, let alone considered personal attacks.

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    I guess I’ll give my viewpoint.

    “From the title alone, this felt like a troll post. And with no further comments from OP, makes you wonder. Maybe 4chan got tired of trolling the usual suspects?” This is probably the only one that, yes, implying OP is a troll from 4chan when they’re just a new attending actually looking for advice is an ad hominem attack. The others, not really. The one about insinuating the OP was a child asking another parent without them ever responding was meh, but OP should just let that go.

    #220495 Reply
    CordMcNally CordMcNally 
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    I guess I’ll give my viewpoint. “From the title alone, this felt like a troll post. And with no further comments from OP, makes you wonder. Maybe 4chan got tired of trolling the usual suspects?” This is probably the only one that, yes, implying OP is a troll from 4chan when they’re just a new attending actually looking for advice is an ad hominem attack. The others, not really. The one about insinuating the OP was a child asking another parent without them ever responding was meh, but OP should just let that go.

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    I still don’t take that comment as a personal attack but I guess everyone is different. I also think the post you mentioned was not a 100% serious post.

    “But investing isn’t about beating others at their game. It’s about controlling yourself at your own game.”
    ― Benjamin Graham, The Intelligent Investor

    #220496 Reply
    Zaphod Zaphod 
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    I think most of the time and far and away better than the majority of internet forums this place is great. Of course it isnt perfect and we all have bad days and I’ve seen some inappropriate level responses that are not going to be helpful. Most of the time in contrast to regulars here people feel extremely vulnerable posting about finances and especially how terrible they are doing at it.

    Whether or not many of these things are objectively rude or something doesnt matter so much, what matters is does it promote further engagement by OP and others in the future. No matter our interpretation of things, if thats the goal than we should post in that manner. Some of the comments above may not seem terrible, but they certainly dont encourage the poster to waste their time with following up.

    I tire of the “is this trolling” etc…because one the regulars here are frankly weirdos in real life financially and it seems people have forgotten what the base rate assumptions are. Lots of people putting genuine situations out there and to be called a troll for what is in reality a pretty basic and normal situational question is rude and belittling. Dont forget this is a literal echo chamber formed from a bubble on a bubble. Financially savvy working towards independence in their early career docs are not at all normal.

    Otoh, I’ve seen certain threads closed and didnt see a shred of any badness at all. One that was contentious and wondered what or why was that vaccine one, must of gotten even livelier.

    The one about the doc who just had a terrible sequence of events and was in a bad place I felt, and I said so, was in really poor form. That wasnt a finance question even if the OP didnt realize it.

    Since this is a doctor heavy forum I try to keep a better than average sentiment and attitude here, as well as with advice. Im definitely not one to keep stern advice or takes back, but I do try to not make it personal or cutting. I mean I have a twitter account if I wanted to do that, but I really dont there either.

    MPMD MPMD 
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    , implying OP is a troll from 4chan when they’re just a new attending actually looking for advice is an ad hominem attack.

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    i’m going to be simultaneously a little bit semantic and pedantic here but i think one thing that is done commonly on this forum is to falsely identify ad hominem attacks.

    technically an ad hominen attack is one where the appeal is to questioning the “character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument” rather than engaging the argument itself. i see precious little of that here. people tend to respond with any perceived slight by crying ad hominem as if it’s some how a game changer.

    on an anonymous internet forum i don’t think it’s an ad hominem to question if a poster is really representing themselves as a White Coat investor aficionado posing a genuine question especially when posts seem trollish.

    if ENT Doc and I disagree about politics (let’s face it, this is possible) and I say that he is a buttface that is a classic ad hominen attack.

    if a poster shows up and asks what we think about buying a $3M condo on their primary care income b/c “the rents in my area are ridiculous” and someone asks if they are for real that is not an ad hominen.

    #220501 Reply
    Avatar jhwkr542 
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    Ok, not technically ad hominem. Bud probably shouldn’t be calling people trolls on their first post after they haven’t responded for 24 hours.

    #220507 Reply
    Vagabond MD Vagabond MD 
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    I tried to find what posts from that thread may have been misconstrued as a personal attack and posted them here. I want to know if other people find any of these offensive. Most posts here seem to comment on the overall assertions of that OP getting upset over the disagreement of opinion, and that’s not what happened. I’m trying to steer the conversation back towards what happened and the initial premise of this thread. 

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    I just have a hard time seeing where those posts you mentioned are offensive, let alone considered personal attacks.

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    I guess I’ll give my viewpoint.

    “From the title alone, this felt like a troll post. And with no further comments from OP, makes you wonder. Maybe 4chan got tired of trolling the usual suspects?” This is probably the only one that, yes, implying OP is a troll from 4chan when they’re just a new attending actually looking for advice is an ad hominem attack. The others, not really. The one about insinuating the OP was a child asking another parent without them ever responding was meh, but OP should just let that go.

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    I am probably internet stupid or something, but I missed the point of that gibberish (referring to the sentence in quotations). I read through it and ignored it, and there’s a good chance that the OP and other forum members did the same.

    "Wealth is the slave of the wise man and the master of the fool.” -Seneca the Younger

    #220508 Reply
    Liked by hatton1
    Avatar StarTrekDoc 
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    I believe we’re truthful on comments to new posters.  Can some responses be a little snarky if the question at hand is really 2 standard deviations off the norm? probably.  The pile-on isn’t intentional either if it’s that far off center — it’s just quite a consensus at that point and numbers don’t lie.

    Being a more lurker other forums like Boglehead, Reddit, Facebook, and Doximity, we’re quite docile in comparison IMHO.

    The conversation tends to be a lot more heated among ourselves to tell you the truth.  😉

    #220518 Reply
    Liked by Tim, Anne, Vagabond MD
    CM CM 
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    if ENT Doc and I disagree about politics (let’s face it, this is possible)

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    That’s hard to imagine. 🙂

    Erstwhile Dance Theatre of Dayton performer cum bellhop. Carried bags for Cyd Charisse (gracious). Hosted epic company parties after Friday night rehearsals.

    #220520 Reply
    Zaphod Zaphod 
    Participant
    Status: Physician, Small Business Owner
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    Joined: 01/12/2016

    I believe we’re truthful on comments to new posters.  Can some responses be a little snarky if the question at hand is really 2 standard deviations off the norm? probably.  The pile-on isn’t intentional either if it’s that far off center — it’s just quite a consensus at that point and numbers don’t lie.

    Being a more lurker other forums like Boglehead, Reddit, Facebook, and Doximity, we’re quite docile in comparison IMHO.

    The conversation tends to be a lot more heated among ourselves to tell you the truth.  😉

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    I can only think of a couple specific times myself.

    technically an ad hominen attack is one where the appeal is to questioning the “character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument” rather than engaging the argument itself. i see precious little of that here. people tend to respond with any perceived slight by crying ad hominem as if it’s some how a game changer. on an anonymous internet forum i don’t think it’s an ad hominem to question if a poster is really representing themselves as a White Coat investor aficionado posing a genuine question especially when posts seem trollish.

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    Eh…how on earth is that any different? The interwebs is not a place of formal logical argument, and when we say ad hominem we mean personal attack. Which, by no stretch of the imagination it is. You (figurative for explanation sake) are calling that persons character into question and saying they are lying essentially only for a rise. This effectively kills any substantive discussion about their topic, so its the same. There is no difference in this example and the butt face one.

    As an aside, I think you can place your base rate for trolling a finance forum with physician related questions to near zero, and the times you get caught up in a type 2 error will be worth not committing a ton of type 1 errors. Who cares if you’re taken by a troll or two? Thats not a big deal, so what, cost of playing. Its much worse IMO to slap that title and effectively shut down a line of questioning or inquiry before it starts. Its a decision about what is more costly, our egos or not helping someone learn something.

     

    #220523 Reply
    CordMcNally CordMcNally 
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    if ENT Doc and I disagree about politics (let’s face it, this is possible) and I say that he is a buttface that is a classic ad hominen attack.

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    I believe there was a South Park episode that had a couple that was afflicted with “torsonic polarity syndrome” so in some instances that may not be a personal attack. 😉

    “But investing isn’t about beating others at their game. It’s about controlling yourself at your own game.”
    ― Benjamin Graham, The Intelligent Investor

    #220524 Reply

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