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  • hatton1 hatton1 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 3062
    Joined: 01/11/2016

    I agree that many are way too sensitive.  I try to post what I think without being harsh.  I am old so I have seen a lot of things.

    Avatar Tangler 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 357
    Joined: 08/23/2018

    Agree, agree, agree, BUT, There is a balance. We are light years from Robo advice. We do pile on. I am guilty.

    #220310 Reply
    CM CM 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 1168
    Joined: 01/14/2017
    Regarding helping to make people feel less piled on and more included, I’m curious what participants would suggest should/could have been changed about the comments.

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    Personally, I think the thread was benign and full of level-headed advice.

    However, I imagine part of the problem is that the OP (actually the OP’s fiancee) really wanted a house, and really thought that almost anyone else would also want a house, and was therefore shocked/hurt/offended that everyone thought the idea was clearly nuts. There was no back-and-forth with some arguing in favor and some against. The opinion was unanimous and the preferred answer was so obvious to most posters that the advice had a, “You can’t be serious about this, can you?” quality.

    Some folks have a very thin skin. Posters are generally civil here. I wouldn’t worry about doing somersaults to avoid every perceived offense.

    Erstwhile Dance Theatre of Dayton performer cum bellhop. Carried bags for Cyd Charisse (gracious). Hosted epic company parties after Friday night rehearsals.

    Avatar Tangler 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 357
    Joined: 08/23/2018

    ok self reflection. Yes, “you cannot be serious “ = ok, but something like: “educating you is like fertilizing the concrete! Do you have a functioning synapse? What drugs were you on when you asked this question? Hope you like alpo and little fiskies because that’s your retirement plan, which by the way will happen at 94” = a little too much.

    #220313 Reply
    ACN ACN 
    Moderator
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 630
    Joined: 01/08/2016

    Our country and younger generation have become soft and can’t take criticism. We have the minority groups controlling the narrative and PC culture of the masses.

    There was absolutely nothing wrong with the thread or advice. As moderators we take the responsibility of making sure there are no personal attacks, but true, harsh, blunt advice is allowable.

    If an anonymous poster does not like the advice given, that’s not the forums issue.

    If you're ever having a bad day, just remember in 1976 Ronald Wayne sold his 10% stake in Apple for $2,300.

    Avatar Dont_know_mind 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 947
    Joined: 11/21/2017

    Imagine the time spent on answers that could have been billable hours @300/hour doing our normals jobs. In the thread mentioned, OP didn’t seem appreciative of the answers or time people had spent to post the 6 or so pages of them.

    Avatar Tangler 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 357
    Joined: 08/23/2018

    Imagine the time spent on answers that could have been billable hours @300/hour doing our normals jobs. In the thread mentioned, OP didn’t seem appreciative of the answers or time people had spent to post the 6 or so pages of them.

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    I agree. I spent (wasted?) a little time crafting thoughtful responses. I was initially annoyed that it was closed.

    I’m just thinking of this current thread and the title and the intent and………………. if I really think about it, yeah, we do sometimes pounce and pile on. Personally I think of it as tuition, but clearly it rubs some the wrong way.

    #220319 Reply
    Avatar Tangler 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 357
    Joined: 08/23/2018

    Our country and younger generation have become soft and can’t take criticism. We have the minority groups controlling the narrative and PC culture of the masses.

    There was absolutely nothing wrong with the thread or advice. As moderators we take the responsibility of making sure there are no personal attacks, but true, harsh, blunt advice is allowable.

    If an anonymous poster does not like the advice given, that’s not the forums issue.

    Click to expand…

    Agree, but it ain’t hard to be nice. And kindness is not weakness.

    #220320 Reply
    Vagabond MD Vagabond MD 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 3473
    Joined: 01/21/2016

    I missed the drama post on that thread. I read the first ten or so replies, “liked” several, figured that anything added by me would be piling on and never looked back. The answer was a no-brainer. No easier pitch was ever posted here.

    I believe that the OP was expecting at least some support, did not get it, and was angered by the bluntness and unanimity of the responses. All I can say is that the real world is much tougher than this forum, and the lessons learned the hard way can cost you thousands (even millions) of dollars, your career, and your marriage (to name a few).

    "Wealth is the slave of the wise man and the master of the fool.” -Seneca the Younger

    jfoxcpacfp jfoxcpacfp 
    Moderator
    Status: Financial Advisor, Accountant, Small Business Owner
    Posts: 8114
    Joined: 01/09/2016

    Agree, but it ain’t hard to be nice. And kindness is not weakness.

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    Personally, I think “nice” and “kind” are two very different things and I (an oldie like hatton) think this influences the mentality that seems to entitle so many people to feel offended (and it’s not always the younger generation).

    My objective (other than being helpful and, let’s face it, keeping my name out there) is not to be nice. Nice is fake to me. I do want to be kind, which I equate with genuine concern.

    Not hopping on your case, Tangler, as I think you are a very kind person.

    Johanna Fox Turner, CPA, CFP, Fox Wealth Mgmt & Fox CPAs ~
    http://www.fox-cpas.com/for-doctors-only ~ [email protected]

    MPMD MPMD 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 2493
    Joined: 05/01/2017

    Interesting discussion I’m glad it’s started.

    My thoughts on this:

    1. I think what others have said is spot on, the people who post regularly on here essentially are all on the same page about this big ticket stuff. This just isn’t a place to come and have a good discussion about having a 50% WLI portfolio or buying a house that is 5X your salary. Is that bad? I don’t think so.

    2. I have found these thread closings to be irritating. I am only bringing this up in the context of this discussion for 2 reasons, a) my life is not really meaningfully affected by things that irritate me on a web forum I participate in voluntarily and b) it’s a TOS violation to complain about mod policies. Regarding (b) again I’m only floating this out there b/c we are having the discussion. I think it would be slightly preferable just to let these threads die on the vine organically. Just my $0.02. Again, not complaining about mods in any real sense.

    3. I find it completely bizarre that the mods (esp WCI) are getting email traffic from people complaining about threads and then are acting on said emails. 98% of my bemusement at this process is directed at members who feel that this is a good way to conduct business. Again this is a completely private site and a very niche little corner of the web. I think people should be maximally free to not click on whatever they don’t want to click on and should be invited to do so. There is a subset of threads on here that I just avoid. My not liking the discussion is not an indication to close the thread.

    4. I think some of these threads have been either trolling or at least trolling-adjacent. It’s impossible to prove obviously but there was that one a while back where the OP ended an extremely odd thread by saying something like “this is why doctors commit suicide.” That seems pretty over the top. Perhaps we should be thinking about banning for such things?

    5. If a junior partner walks up to me in the ED and asks me for advice on a case I’m going to tell them what I would do because I care about them and want them to stay out of the minefield. I don’t see any difference when someone asks me for financial advice. We can tone it down and tell these occasional posters that they can afford a $1.2M house on $300k in the bay area with $500k in debt but it isn’t good for them. One thing I’ve learned from WCI is that PF is all about an endless series of small good decisions, any number of which might be fairly painful. You don’t, as he likes to say, get a pass on math.

    jfoxcpacfp jfoxcpacfp 
    Moderator
    Status: Financial Advisor, Accountant, Small Business Owner
    Posts: 8114
    Joined: 01/09/2016
    I have found these thread closings to be irritating. I am only bringing this up in the context of this discussion for 2 reasons, a) my life is not really meaningfully affected by things that irritate me on a web forum I participate in voluntarily and b) it’s a TOS violation to complain about mod policies. Regarding (b) again I’m only floating this out there b/c we are having the discussion. I think it would be slightly preferable just to let these threads die on the vine organically. Just my $0.02. Again, not complaining about mods in any real sense.

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    You do realize that this particular thread was closed by the boss, right? afaik, the typical reason for closing a thread is when it has spiraled down into unhelpful political insults, referring to others as racists, etc. Those threads don’t typically die on the vine, at least before destroying or really harming some relationships.

    Johanna Fox Turner, CPA, CFP, Fox Wealth Mgmt & Fox CPAs ~
    http://www.fox-cpas.com/for-doctors-only ~ [email protected]

    #220354 Reply
    Avatar EndoRobert 
    Participant
    Posts: 70
    Joined: 01/12/2019
    Splash Refinancing Bonus

    Agree with MPMD, especially point #3. Maybe people are a little blunt, but, as alluded to on that thread and this one, if you’re about to make a big procedural mistake you want people to say something.

    Specifically, this forum is highly self-selective and understandably averse to mid to high 6 figure debt, debt financing buy-ins, and the big doctor house. No (cuss!) people aren’t gonna respond well to a couple looking to do all three on “only” 700k income. It’s just very hard to build wealth juggling all that, yes even on 700k. And that’s what people here are tying to help us do, build wealth.

    More generally, if you’re young (and I’m talking to myself), you cannot look at how older docs did things or how they live. On the aggregate, tuition is higher, reimbursement is down, and the rise of employed positions has left younger doctors with much less room for error. All this doesn’t give someone a pass on math to go buy a (insert toy here) mine would be a wakeboard boat.

    #220365 Reply
    Liked by Lordosis, Anne
    MPMD MPMD 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 2493
    Joined: 05/01/2017

    I have found these thread closings to be irritating. I am only bringing this up in the context of this discussion for 2 reasons, a) my life is not really meaningfully affected by things that irritate me on a web forum I participate in voluntarily and b) it’s a TOS violation to complain about mod policies. Regarding (b) again I’m only floating this out there b/c we are having the discussion. I think it would be slightly preferable just to let these threads die on the vine organically. Just my $0.02. Again, not complaining about mods in any real sense.

    Click to expand…

    You do realize that this particular thread was closed by the boss, right? afaik, the typical reason for closing a thread is when it has spiraled down into unhelpful political insults, referring to others as racists, etc. Those threads don’t typically die on the vine, at least before destroying or really harming some relationships.

    Click to expand…

    yeah i know, like i said i’m not really complaining, it’s his forum if i want to make the rules i’d start my own.

    there was one closure that was over like how much to gift at a wedding though? that’s more like what i was talking about.

     

    edit: i also want to triple-reiterate that i would never have brought this up outside the context of a very inside-baseball meta-thread about forum flavor and seasoning and would not have started such a thread for the purpose of doing so. i have watched the mod process with equanimity thus far and plan to do so in the future.

    #220366 Reply
    Liked by Tim, Vagabond MD, Peds
    jfoxcpacfp jfoxcpacfp 
    Moderator
    Status: Financial Advisor, Accountant, Small Business Owner
    Posts: 8114
    Joined: 01/09/2016
    there was one closure that was over like how much to gift at a wedding though? that’s more like what i was talking about.

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    Interesting – I was unaware of that one, either. Again, the boss said he was getting heated emails and closed it. Not sure I understand that myself. From what I can tell, you’re actually happy as peach pie with the lowly mods; it’s WCI’s thin skin that is the problem 😉

    We used to use the acronym GDR back in CompuServe days. I would have posted that above instead of the wink if I thought anyone would know what it meant. Another 10 points to anyone who can guess. (It doesn’t show up on page 1 of google, so I think you may have to be a boomer who used the internet in the early 90s to know…)

    Johanna Fox Turner, CPA, CFP, Fox Wealth Mgmt & Fox CPAs ~
    http://www.fox-cpas.com/for-doctors-only ~ [email protected]

    #220372 Reply

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