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Forum Self Reflection

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  • Avatar BCBiker 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 235
    Joined: 01/10/2016
    Splash Refinancing Bonus

    There was a post that I will not name but I’m sure many people remember where the OP was very upset with the outcome of discussion.

    To be fair to everyone here, I think that we were unknowingly intermediaries in a lover’s spat where one person had unreasonable expectations. The funny part is that we probably resolved their issue and/or delayed them from making a really bad decision.

    However, I do think it is worth an open discussion about inclusiveness of the forum to the un-anointed. When someone comes on here and has a completely bone-headed idea, understanding the baseline condition of most physician finances (particularly people coming out of training), maybe we should ease up a bit and do a little more education and a little less judgement. Or when someone is super judgmental, there should be someone to provide a little encouragement.

    I value this forum because of the diversity of opinion. I think we have a fair amount of age and regional diversity too so this group has a lot to offer to newbies.  I think more people will stick around if we do a better job of being supportive of outsiders looking in. I also value the bluntness of many people as well so there is probably a middle ground where the forum maintains its character. I have had some spats with people I have disagreed with but I actually enjoy learning from people that have the opposite opinion of me. There is usually something to learn.

    I’m curious of other people’s thoughts. Maybe I’m a softy.  I even felt bad for what’s his name, ?Crisus? who I think got scared away.

    #220215 Reply
    abds abds 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 241
    Joined: 01/16/2017

    For the love of god will someone please link this thread that everyone won’t shut up about yet they treat it like Voldemort’s name?

    Send me a PM if you want.

    ENT Doc ENT Doc 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 3515
    Joined: 01/14/2017

    For the love of god will someone please link this thread that everyone won’t shut up about yet they treat it like Voldemort’s name?

    Send me a PM if you want.

    Click to expand…

    Behold the brutal savagery of the WCI forum members, as they give reasonable advice – don’t buy:

    https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/forums/topic/two-attending-physicians-student-loan-debt-of-660k-buy-1st-home-now-or-delay/https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/forums/topic/two-attending-physicians-student-loan-debt-of-660k-buy-1st-home-now-or-delay/

    Avatar Gamma Knives 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 169
    Joined: 06/25/2017

    I didn’t go back and read all of that thread; from what I recall there was some blunt advice but it was not mean spirited. Frankly I am not sure what the OP took offense to. I recall a line about not wanting to talk about future procreation which seems like an appropriate question when discussing housing (but I don’t think anyone pressed the issue).

    There are a handful (at most) of posters that can be a bit mean (IMO) but for the most part I think this is a pretty friendly place. However, when someone posts a terrible idea I don’t think we are doing them a favor if the response is maybe don’t do that. Some people need a wake up call; if they hear equivocation in the replies that may be taken as their idea is ok. I didn’t post when I joined but reading the forum and the main page gave me a wake up call and I’m thankful for it.

    edit: I don’t think Crixius was scared away. I think he was banned for violating the forum rules.

    #220228 Reply
    Avatar Peds 
    Moderator
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 4434
    Joined: 01/08/2016

    The biggest issue was the OP didn’t return for like 4 pages.
    Maybe if he complained about our answers earlier it wouldn’t have gone on so long….

    But I digress….

    Avatar angeladiaz99 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 83
    Joined: 09/30/2018

    For the love of god will someone please link this thread that everyone won’t shut up about yet they treat it like Voldemort’s name?

    Send me a PM if you want.

    Click to expand…

    Behold the brutal savagery of the WCI forum members, as they give reasonable advice – don’t buy:

    https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/forums/topic/two-attending-physicians-student-loan-debt-of-660k-buy-1st-home-now-or-delay/

    Click to expand…

    I’d wager I’m one of the younger members of this forum and even I wonder if the generation behind me is too soft.

    The OP came to ask for advice and everyone gave them advice. (Good advice to boot).

    If they thought that was harsh, not sure how they survived rounds.

    Avatar BCBiker 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 235
    Joined: 01/10/2016

    I don’t want to focus too much on that specific post. Maybe there is nothing more to talk about beyond that post. I also recall some other posts where I think first time posters maybe got a mix of good advice, average opinions, and blunt criticisms.

    #220236 Reply
    Liked by Anne, Tangler
    wonka31 wonka31 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 701
    Joined: 03/24/2018

    For the love of god will someone please link this thread that everyone won’t shut up about yet they treat it like Voldemort’s name?

    Send me a PM if you want.

    Click to expand…

    Behold the brutal savagery of the WCI forum members, as they give reasonable advice – don’t buy:

    https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/forums/topic/two-attending-physicians-student-loan-debt-of-660k-buy-1st-home-now-or-delay/

    Click to expand…

    I’d wager I’m one of the younger members of this forum and even I wonder if the generation behind me is too soft.

    The OP came to ask for advice and everyone gave them advice. (Good advice to boot).

    If they thought that was harsh, not sure how they survived rounds.

    Click to expand…

    Yes to this x1000. I’m a bit on the younger side and try to soften my comments knowing that many in my generation are a bit sensitive. As long as there are no personal attacks or discriminatory comments, I think all is fair game. In general, our country needs to toughen up a bit. If people spent as much time getting stuff done or working towards goals as they did complaining on FB and Twitter, we’d have 20% yearly economic growth in perpetuity.

    Avatar wideopenspaces 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 1138
    Joined: 01/12/2016

    I know I feel bad anytime a poster feels bad or overwhelmed or piled on by the forum. So I plan to work harder on making people feel included, encouraged, etc. Everyone has to start somewhere and that’s ok. I still have no idea about half the stuff that is discussed here!

    #220255 Reply
    SerrateAndDominate SerrateAndDominate 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 487
    Joined: 02/01/2018

    I feel like wonka31 is my spirit animal

    I’m curious what the complaint emails say, but that’s just because I like a good train wreck.

    Everyone approaches the forum in their own way. I like to lurk then chime in on topics I have some level of comfort. Overall, I agree that this is a good mix of opinions and experience. This is my only social media

    Not to harp on that one post, but if a newbie can type out they are wanting to double their debt and hit 7 figures while buying a house (or whatever similar idea is posted), then they better anticipate some honest opinions.

    I just find it funny that a new poster will drop in, give the group the bare minimum, and expect life changing advice without usually following up and filling in the gaps. I also find it funny when folks go whine via email but
    don’t hesitate to go 0-100 over a Facebook post (any FB group; not necessarily WCI as I’ve never seen that page ). It’s mind boggling.

    Earn everything.

    #220268 Reply
    wonka31 wonka31 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 701
    Joined: 03/24/2018

    Agree with SerrateandDominate. I’m not into attacking posters, however there is a level of ‘self study’ that makes forums, this one included, more useful. Jim has written about a hundred posts on living like a resident, saving 20% of gross income, etc. I’d assume that most people find his blog first and then realize there is a forum section (maybe I’m wrong on this, but I followed the blog for years prior to even browsing, let alone joining the forums). Sometimes when questions are asked, the answer has already been written over and over again in his posts. There’s also a degree of knowing your audience to forums. Most people here, myself included, are quite conservative from a financial perspective. If I make a post about buying a Ferrari here, I won’t likely get the same opinion as if I posted on some Ferrari forums. If I want to talk about real estate investing, I won’t go to Bogleheads.

    Anyways, I feel bad that the person was upset. I do wonder what percentage of the upset was feeling personally attacked versus not getting the answer/recommendations they were hoping for.

    #220284 Reply
    Avatar Tangler 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 358
    Joined: 08/23/2018
    Thanks. YES . You are all correct:
    1. we (I) should try harder to not pile on. (it is easy to pile on like sharks with blood in the water)
    2. blunt, concise, great advice without meanness should be my goal. Several posters are great at this.
    3. the world is changing. Teachers, Coaches, and Attendings seldom give tough feedback, and people no longer respond well to blunt critical advice. Some thrive on it, but not as many as before and blunt criticality it is is often mistaken for only being mean.
    4. Yes, I think that particular person was upset because they did not hear what they wanted to hear. For anyone who has ever looked at anything WCI related the responses were as predicable sunshine in Arizona. BUT (and I was guilty too) we were harsh (see points 1 and 2)
    On a side note, does anyone else find themselves reading this forum rather than doing work……….it is Sunday morning and I need to get off my rump and finish my work….ok I digress.
    #220286 Reply
    CM CM 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 1168
    Joined: 01/14/2017
    Thanks. YES . You are all correct:
    1. we (I) should try harder to not pile on. (it is easy to pile on like sharks with blood in the water)
    2. blunt, concise, great advice without meanness should be my goal. Several posters are great at this.
    3. the world is changing. Teachers, Coaches, and Attendings seldom give tough feedback, and people no longer respond well to blunt critical advice. Some thrive on it, but not as many as before and blunt criticality it is is often mistaken for only being mean.
    4. Yes, I think that particular person was upset because they did not hear what they wanted to hear. For anyone who has ever looked at anything WCI related the responses were as predicable sunshine in Arizona. BUT (and I was guilty too) we were harsh (see points 1 and 2)
    On a side note, does anyone else find themselves reading this forum rather than doing work……….it is Sunday morning and I need to get off my rump and finish my work….ok I digress.
    Click to expand…

    Tangler, you wrote a terrific post on page 6 of that thread.

     

    Erstwhile Dance Theatre of Dayton performer cum bellhop. Carried bags for Cyd Charisse (gracious). Hosted epic company parties after Friday night rehearsals.

    #220290 Reply
    Avatar billy 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 162
    Joined: 04/07/2016

    I hope everyone is still willing to give honest opinions on this forum, as I see it as an advantage.  Its too easy on FB/Twitter/etc to find views or targeted ads that only agree with you and validate your choices, despite how right or wrong those choices are.

    #220304 Reply
    Liked by Zaphod, wonka31, hatton1, CM
    jfoxcpacfp jfoxcpacfp 
    Moderator
    Status: Financial Advisor, Accountant, Small Business Owner
    Posts: 8128
    Joined: 01/09/2016

    I was totally unaware of this thread so just read for the 1st time. Regarding helping to make people feel less piled on and more included, I’m curious what participants would suggest should/could have been changed about the comments. I didn’t see anything mean or even unhelpful. Would it have made a difference if initial answers had also included “Welcome and thank you for posting!” before responding?

    I’m not being sarcastic, which I admit I can lean toward at times. But I always assume that anyone posting here wants honest, helpful opinions or they wouldn’t bother to ask and would just continue lurking. We’re not robots – if answers were not also reflective of personality, this would be a very dull place and, I think, not quite so popular. OTOH, I believe true unkindness is rare on this forum. Many people devote a lot of personal free time to being helpful – can’t please everybody.

    Johanna Fox Turner, CPA, CFP, Fox Wealth Mgmt & Fox CPAs ~
    http://www.fox-cpas.com/for-doctors-only ~ [email protected]

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