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Fatlittlepig\'s Question for POF (Physician on Fire)

Home Personal Finance and Budgeting Fatlittlepig\'s Question for POF (Physician on Fire)

  • q-school q-school 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 2334
    Joined: 05/07/2017
    Disability Insurance

    it’s essentially an n of one study

    i am so glad he’s talking about it openly.

    i myself could never do it, but i find it incredibly brave to do so as the parent of young kids.  kudos to him for courage of conviction/trust in the spreadsheet.

    sadly, won’t know if it worked out for about 40 years and i’m pretty sure i will be long gone by then.  the blog income complicates a true FIRE assessment as well.

     

     

    #205726 Reply
    Liked by Tangler
    fatlittlepig fatlittlepig 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 667
    Joined: 01/26/2017

    As everyone states, different people do differently.

    I have taken a path like FLP with part time work in the medical field while letting my investments grow untouched. My reasons are

    1. I like the work as a physician and it gives me a better status among my friends and in the community as a practicing medical specialist than an idle sit at home person. My self worth is important to me.

    2. Some of investments have occurred because my profession as a practicing physician with good salary was what some of the banks / lenders were looking for. If I had not had that job, I would not have had those opportunities.

    3. A successful blog is hard work to start and maintain. You need to be good in the field, research and post fresh articles and blog posts regularly. Even when you are on vacation. And if you slack off, the blog will wither and die. And should you die before you sell the blog, the blog becomes almost worthless soon ( though if you invest the earnings from the blog regularly, that should grow). I find it easier to earn an income that pays me more per hour than a blog would and the investments from it would not perish with me.

    4. Quitting my specialty for 2 years and coming back is not easy in my field. Keeping the toes in the water is much easier to do.

     

    Click to expand…

    I am full time.

    #205748 Reply
    fatlittlepig fatlittlepig 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
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    Joined: 01/26/2017

    instead of possibly having to rely on unreliable health sharing ministries?

    Click to expand…

    Could you expand on what about healthcare cost sharing that you find unreliable?

    Click to expand…

    A quick google search of peoples’ experience with health sharing ministries will tell you all you need to know…

    https://www.yelp.com/biz/liberty-healthshare-canton-3

    I don’t know much about blog monetization etc, but i would treat blog income as something that could potentially wither away very quickly, (or not, who knows?)

    #205749 Reply
    Zzyzx Zzyzx 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 139
    Joined: 09/24/2018

    I have followed POF since he started the blog.  He has thoughtfully posted about his decisions.  I would be very worried about health insurance costs.  I elected to continue working part-time instead of total retirement.  FI gives you options.

    Click to expand…

    agreed

    you are not in control of your health or healthcare costs.  working to maintain healthcare benefits is something that most people are forced into, even if you are FI

    It’s psychosomatic. You need a lobotomy. I’ll get a saw.

    #205753 Reply
    Avatar saildawg 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 287
    Joined: 01/24/2016

    I have been following and asking myself similar questions for the last 3 years.  He has taken financial risk off the table by having something to “retire” to, that produces a nice income.  As in most things with the FIRE movement, the RE part is really just there to make a catchy acronym.  It is the cheese in the mouse trap to get the attention.  What the FIRE movement is really about is to live your ideal/desired life on a financially secure basis.  Call it a “fully funded career change”, or choosing to pursue passion projects etc.    The most interesting aspect to me is that medicine unlike other career fields would have such a barrier to re-entry.

    POF is an awesome content producer and talented blogger.  He also has not been disingenuous in hiding the fact that his blog makes a totally livable income.   It would be interesting if he had to live out the math involved in the SWR in real life and we see how that effects his decisions etc.

    In the end we only get one shot at life and we can choose how to make our lives better and more fulfilling.  Some would argue it is more risky to not pursue his new path.

    #205755 Reply
    Vagabond MD Vagabond MD 
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    Status: Physician
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    Joined: 01/21/2016

    @flp, sure blog income could whither away, but it also could continue to grow. I can say the same about my practice.

    "Wealth is the slave of the wise man and the master of the fool.” -Seneca the Younger

    #205757 Reply
    Liked by Tangler
    Faithful Steward Faithful Steward 
    Participant
    Status: Financial Advisor, Small Business Owner
    Posts: 354
    Joined: 06/12/2017
    A quick google search of peoples’ experience with health sharing ministries will tell you all you need to know…

    Click to expand…

    Can’t speak to Liberty Healthcare, but I have been a member of Christian Healthcare Ministries for some time and have never had a problem with getting my bills paid. Service has been great. Thanks for sharing.

    Michael Peterson, CFP® | Faithful Steward Wealth Advisors
    http://www.fswealthadvisors.com | (717) 496-0900

    #205772 Reply
    Liked by ENT Doc
    PhysicianOnFIRE PhysicianOnFIRE 
    Moderator
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 1504
    Joined: 01/08/2016

    So many good questions and comments! I’ll do my best to address them.

    Why not work part-time? I’ve been doing that for about a year and a half now. It’s been good, but every week when I go back to work, I feel like there’s someplace I’d rather be. I think I’ve felt that way about employment ever since I started working at a grocery store 27 years ago. Never hated work; never loved it. But I do enjoy earning money, and we do get to do some cool stuff in anesthesia. I’m going to hang on to one state license and keep up CME for at least a year or two to leave that window open.

    We recently booked our first “slow travel” getaway — two months in Ecuador this fall. We’ve had a few family trips of a few weeks apiece, and that doesn’t seem like enough time. My wife and I traveled doing nothing but locums for two years when we were childless and we really enjoyed that, actually. It was fun to be in a place for a few months, explore what’s available while meeting new people. I envision “retirement” to be something like that, but without the anesthesia part, and with more international destinations.

    As far as making the numbers work, when the FIRE number threads come up, most docs seem to be comfortable with retiring with a net worth in the $3M to $5M range. I feel we were FI below that, but we’re now solidly in the middle of that range. If I were to value the blog at a standard 3x annual revenue, we could soon be above that range.

    In terms of blog income, some of you get my emails, so you know the details. About a third goes to expenses, a third gets donated, and I split the last third with the government. If I didn’t have my W-2 job last year, my take would have been close to covering our annual expenses. But I consider it all gravy, and the blogging bit is fun. It is true, as @kamban pointed out, that it does take a lot of time and effort. If you want to be consistent, it requires time every week throughout the week, no  matter where you are in the world. Well, I probably won’t touch it when we’re back in Honduras for a week next month unless the wifi has improved, but I’ll be playing catch up when we return.

    I tried to put together a $200 a day post-FI budget. Factoring in the cost of healthcare coverage, I couldn’t make it work, so I bumped it up to $220 a day, or $80,000 a year. Even that would require some ingenuity to do what we want to do. Some would balk at the idea of considering home swapping or house sitting (usually involves pet sitting) as a way to see the nation and world more affordably, but I love the idea. Seems like a great use of resources and an outside-the-box way to “hack” your travel. I like to optimize and tinker, and staying in someone else’s home while they’re away (which we already do for a price with Airbnb and VRBO) for little or no cost seems ideal.

    It’s true that I’ve become a poor FI study subject, as in, at least initially, retiring from medicine will be more of a career transition. Retired not retired, as I’ve stated.

    Thank you all for the kind words, and I look forward to continuing to share our journey and my thoughts as we transition into whatever is next. I like to tell people we’re going to take it one year and one adventure at a time.

    Cheers!
    -PoF

    40-something anesthesiologist and personal finance blogger @ https://physicianonfire.com [Part of the WCI Network] Find me on Twitter: @physicianonfire

    FIRE. Financial Independence. Retire Early.

    hatton1 hatton1 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 2910
    Joined: 01/11/2016

    I am glad POF saw and responded to this thread.

    #205787 Reply
    Avatar Tim 
    Participant
    Status: Accountant
    Posts: 2076
    Joined: 09/18/2018

    POF,

    I sincerely wish you the very best.

    Rule 1 is live your personal life how you wish. You have anecdotes where life throws “curveballs” that can be nasty. You are smart, don’t forget to duck.

    Rule 2 is do what makes sense for supporting your financial security.

    My question is “what would be your plan in 5 years if you lost $2.5mm?” Quite honestly, I don’t know if Fed Policy could step in if a recession turns into a depression. Those are extreme views, but they can easily happen, not likely. Everyone needs to find their own way to happiness. Some choose a commune and carving leather or blowing glass. You have a great skill that pays well. You can’t replace your earning years, but you can benefit by milking the earnings sooner rather than later.  I would stash 10% or so in an “emergency” investment account.  Nice little nest egg if you need a restart through no fault of your own.

    Best wishes.

    #205826 Reply
    Avatar Tim 
    Participant
    Status: Accountant
    Posts: 2076
    Joined: 09/18/2018
    The most interesting aspect to me is that medicine unlike other career fields would have such a barrier to re-entry.

    Click to expand…

    Re-entry after 5-10 years is virtually impossible. “Current work experience” is always a requirement and then one runs into the age discrimination thing.

    #205829 Reply
    Liked by Tangler, Kamban, Anne
    Avatar DCdoc 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 397
    Joined: 06/14/2016

    Can we get more emotion response buttons than simply “like”? I think a thumbs down would be quite helpful for some FLP posts… 🤣

    #205853 Reply
    Avatar octopus85 
    Participant
    Status: Resident
    Posts: 169
    Joined: 08/13/2017
    Earnest refinancing bonus

    Can’t speak to Liberty Healthcare, but I have been a member of Christian Healthcare Ministries for some time and have never had a problem with getting my bills paid. Service has been great. Thanks for sharing.

    Click to expand…

    Are they contractually obligated to pay? If they suddenly decide they don’t want to pay your bills, can they make that decision unilaterally?

    #205857 Reply
    Avatar Anne 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 883
    Joined: 11/07/2017

      The most interesting aspect to me is that medicine unlike other career fields would have such a barrier to re-entry.

    Click to expand…

    I actually don’t think medicine is that unique in this regard.  I think doctors like to tell ourselves that we’re special, but I think we overstate it.  It’s probably true of any high income professional.  Jobs that make 200k+ are competitive.  You have to work hard to get them, and with few exceptions you can’t drop out of the competition for 3-4 years and expect to come back making the same amount.  Industries change, and if you’re not there keeping up with the changes you are not going to be competitive to land another high paying job after a multi year hiatus.   Sure, you can get back in the workforce doing/making something, but so could almost any doctor.   And as at least one doc on this board has demonstrated (CM), return to the physician workforce is possible after an extended absence.

     

     

    #205871 Reply
    fatlittlepig fatlittlepig 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 667
    Joined: 01/26/2017

    this will probably not be a popular post but my role as fatlittlepig is not to be popular but to offer my perspective and opinion.

    if i were POF’s financial advisor, i would recommend to keep working, even just a few shifts a month would virtually guarantee financial security.

    for me to jump ship at that point in the game, things would have to be intolerably bad, like physically getting ill thinking about going to work. (not just i would rather be in ecuador this week.)

    also (this may just apply to me) but not having a job at this age, would be extremely boring, i think it is likely physician on fire will return to the workforce due to this reason.

    FLP

     

    #205875 Reply

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