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Marriage: Still Your Highest Risk Venture

Home Asset Protection Marriage: Still Your Highest Risk Venture

  • Avatar Peds 
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    Will be interesting to see how much gets split.

    Waiting on Melinda now….

    https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/09/tech/jeff-bezos-wife-divorce/index.html

    #179900 Reply
    Avatar G 
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    The first thing I thought was that now there will be a tie for richest and everyone else on the list would get bumped down a notch. But I dont know if they are that rich or not.

    #179909 Reply
    Liked by Tim, Craigy
    portlandia portlandia 
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    Marital discord leading to divorce is always tragic, though for some of us with good life insurance policies, there is a scarier possibility!

     

    #179921 Reply
    ENT Doc ENT Doc 
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    Most important line is at the end.  Some things wealth can’t replace.

    #179928 Reply
    Liked by Zaphod, portlandia
    wonka31 wonka31 
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    He will make it all back in 2-3 years.

    #179935 Reply
    Liked by Tim
    legobikes legobikes 
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    Actually it’s life that is your highest risk venture, and that risk cannot be mitigated. But it’s also the only adventure worth having.

    #180009 Reply
    Liked by Zaphod
    MPMD MPMD 
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    As much as I enjoy being married and have a very happy marriage I have to think that some degree of mundane-ness and ordinary life are pretty key for a successful marriage. It’s clearly tough at the very bottom of the SES spectrum with the constant money pressure but I would think it would be equally if not more tough at the very very top. I’m not talking like spine surgeon who saves well I’m talking Zuck, Bezos, NFL players, movie stars etc.

    At some point you are just basically being constantly worshiped and showered with attention and you have the money to do literally anything you want to do and in the case of Bezos/Zuck to do EVERYTHING you want to do. I don’t care how grounded you are that’s got to mess with your brain pretty seriously.

    IMHO marriages deepen and strengthen largely through the mundane business of day to day life. Yeah it’s great to do 2 weeks in Fiji but you learn more about each other and how to be a good partner by helping each other change the sheets and taking the trash out. I’m not saying it’s not possible for the very wealthy to have meaningful relationships, I would just imagine that the sweet spot for marital success lies in sort of the $80,000-$1,000,000 income bracket as broad and otherwise silly as such a bracket would be.

    Avatar docnews 
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    I think it is so sad. You know she had a part in building Amazon. Money corrupts and ruins marriages. I guess I’m glad I’m not THAT wealthy.

    #180087 Reply
    Liked by portlandia, MPMD
    Avatar Kamban 
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    . I’m not talking like spine surgeon who saves well I’m talking Zuck, Bezos, NFL players, movie stars etc.

    Click to expand…

    I pretty much agree with most of you post though I feel that in the case of NFL and movie star it is more the fame and power that leads to issues with their marriage. They may be high earners but many are not high net worth individuals, save a savvy few like Jordan or Shaq who are shrewd investors

    I would just imagine that the sweet spot for marital success lies in sort of the $80,000-$1,000,000 income bracket as broad and otherwise silly as such a bracket would be.

    Click to expand…

    And I also think that the net worth also impacts your marriage. At >$1B you can pretty much have what you want ( maybe not a jetliner or mega yacht) and need to do very little in common with your spouse. Especially mundane things like grocery shopping. So you grow slowly apart and one day divorce looms large in your face.

    #180316 Reply
    CordMcNally CordMcNally 
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    The first thing I thought was that now there will be a tie for richest and everyone else on the list would get bumped down a notch. But I dont know if they are that rich or not.

    Click to expand…

    It seems like every source is a little bit different but I think it would put them tied for around 4th or 5th with each other if they split everything down the middle. Still not a bad position to be in at the end of the day.

    “But investing isn’t about beating others at their game. It’s about controlling yourself at your own game.”
    ― Benjamin Graham, The Intelligent Investor

    #180321 Reply
    IntensiveCareBear IntensiveCareBear 
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    Status: Physician
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    Joined: 12/22/2018

    I just got a call from a med school classmate last weekend who is starting the divorce process and wanted advice. The only advice is basically, “sorry to hear that. Your next year or two is going to be very tough, but you will learn a lot.” I was going to tell him how to find a good divorce lawyer, but nearly every attorney does divorce… since it is so damn common. It’s sad though. He will be lucky to “just” lose all of his retirement and need to take out loans just to keep his private practice intact when all is said and done, and his kids will soon be 3 or 4 hours away… but I’ll let his attorney be the good news bearer on all that. I just suggested he go very slow with future women and realize that while women and happiness are easy to find anywhere, money is not.

    Marriage and divorce are just industries. It is an industry of trading money (property) for sex… or at least the general idea of that. Always has been, always will be. Look at dowry and arranged marriage traditions. Marriage caters to beta males who have the scarcity mentality with regard to mating (and it also caters to female hypergamy: women who themselves, or through family pressure, function as gold diggers). It keeps those guys happy and content (and non-violent); it was designed that way and still largely serves the same purpose. The problem is that marriage is now a totally unnecessary risk. It is too bad many people don’t learn that early in life, as opposed to during their first divorce (if they even learn it then?)…

    Marriage served a more logical purpose back 100+ years ago when 99% of women were stay-at-home moms or cook/cleaners and women couldn’t own land… or vote, hold office,  etc etc. Back then, marriage also meant wives couldn’t press rape charges against their husbands, and wives would get a portion of his land value if they divorced (back when divorce was rare and only considered due to bona fide infidelity, documented abuse, mental illness, etc). It effectively made the women the sexual property of husbands in exchange for some financial security. Not ideal, but again, it was somewhat necessary back in the day to avoid male violence and single mothers dying in the streets… and besides, those were also times when people were less educated and religion was much more powerfully ingrained into politics and social customs.

    In this day in age, legal marriage affords no advantage to the higher income partner. It might save them a small percentage on taxes or the lower income partner can be on health insurance with the higher income one (basically why gays want marriage), but those benefits are all dwarfed by the downsides that come with divorce. Nowadays, women can do essentially anything men can do in regards to finance, career, and investing or ownership.

    There is nothing wrong with having a wedding party or wearing rings or etc, but the actual legal marriage is a fool’s undertaking these days. Even if you are in the minority of couples who “make it” to a life-long marriage, you are likely to be one of the many “roommate” marriages that are just staying together for the kids or financial reasoning or fear of starting over. That is sad, yet those marriages are counted in the “success” percentage. Formal legal marriage just makes something that’s already traumatic and stressful (breaking up) and makes it much harder, longer, more expensive, and more hate-filled for both parties by doing formal divorce proceedings.

    If legal marriage and divorce were so “natural” and “necessary,” there wouldn’t be heavy religious and cultural pressures to do them. Little girls wouldn’t be indoctrinated about how marriage is essential for having kids (huge myth). You wouldn’t hear divorce attorney radio commercials and see ‘bridal expo’ billboards on every drive to work.

    I am in no way against long term relationships or monogamous relatoinships, and I think nearly everyone prefers them, but from both a financial and emotional health standpoint, legal marriage is the largest life risk you could ever take. You don’t need marriage to have a partner, to live together, to have kids, to take vacations together, or anything else. Marriage is a human myth and a boon a attorneys and legal systems. If you took all the marriages and divorces and child support and minor traffic stuff out of courts, that would kill well over half the caseloads, lol. GL to Bezos, my buddy, and many others who will learn the hard way. I hope they’ll never make the same mistake again.

    Related (and correct) info on what marriage was… versus what marriage now is:

    7 Reasons Why You Shouldn’t Get Married

    "Hmm, that sounds risky." - motto of the middle class

    #180411 Reply
    CordMcNally CordMcNally 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
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    Joined: 01/03/2017

    I just got a call from a med school classmate last weekend who is starting the divorce process and wanted advice. The only advice is basically, “sorry to hear that. Your next year or two is going to be very tough, but you will learn a lot.” I was going to tell him how to find a good divorce lawyer, but nearly every attorney does divorce… since it is so damn common. It’s sad though. He will be lucky to “just” lose all of his retirement and need to take out loans just to keep his private practice intact when all is said and done, and his kids will soon be 3 or 4 hours away… but I’ll let his attorney be the good news bearer on all that. I just suggested he go very slow with future women and realize that while women and happiness are easy to find anywhere, money is not.

    Marriage and divorce are just industries. It is an industry of trading money (property) for sex… or at least the general idea of that. Always has been, always will be. Look at dowry and arranged marriage traditions. Marriage caters to beta males who have the scarcity mentality with regard to mating (and it also caters to female hypergamy: women who themselves, or through family pressure, function as gold diggers). It keeps those guys happy and content (and non-violent); it was designed that way and still largely serves the same purpose. The problem is that marriage is now a totally unnecessary risk. It is too bad many people don’t learn that early in life, as opposed to during their first divorce (if they even learn it then?)…

    Marriage served a more logical purpose back 100+ years ago when 99% of women were stay-at-home moms or cook/cleaners and women couldn’t own land… or vote, hold office,  etc etc. Back then, marriage also meant wives couldn’t press rape charges against their husbands, and wives would get a portion of his land value if they divorced (back when divorce was rare and only considered due to bona fide infidelity, documented abuse, mental illness, etc). It effectively made the women the sexual property of husbands in exchange for some financial security. Not ideal, but again, it was somewhat necessary back in the day to avoid male violence and single mothers dying in the streets… and besides, those were also times when people were less educated and religion was much more powerfully ingrained into politics and social customs.

    In this day in age, legal marriage affords no advantage to the higher income partner. It might save them a small percentage on taxes or the lower income partner can be on health insurance with the higher income one (basically why gays want marriage), but those benefits are all dwarfed by the downsides that come with divorce. Nowadays, women can do essentially anything men can do in regards to finance, career, and investing or ownership.

    There is nothing wrong with having a wedding party or wearing rings or etc, but the actual legal marriage is a fool’s undertaking these days. Even if you are in the minority of couples who “make it” to a life-long marriage, you are likely to be one of the many “roommate” marriages that are just staying together for the kids or financial reasoning or fear of starting over. That is sad, yet those marriages are counted in the “success” percentage. Formal legal marriage just makes something that’s already traumatic and stressful (breaking up) and makes it much harder, longer, more expensive, and more hate-filled for both parties by doing formal divorce proceedings.

    If legal marriage and divorce were so “natural” and “necessary,” there wouldn’t be heavy religious and cultural pressures to do them. Little girls wouldn’t be indoctrinated about how marriage is essential for having kids (huge myth). You wouldn’t hear divorce attorney radio commercials and see ‘bridal expo’ billboards on every drive to work.

    I am in no way against long term relationships or monogamous relatoinships, and I think nearly everyone prefers them, but from both a financial and emotional health standpoint, legal marriage is the largest life risk you could ever take. You don’t need marriage to have a partner, to live together, to have kids, to take vacations together, or anything else. Marriage is a human myth and a boon a attorneys and legal systems. If you took all the marriages and divorces and child support and minor traffic stuff out of courts, that would kill well over half the caseloads, lol. GL to Bezos, my buddy, and many others who will learn the hard way. I hope they’ll never make the same mistake again.

    Related (and correct) info on what marriage was… versus what marriage now is:

    7 Reasons Why You Shouldn’t Get Married

    Click to expand…

    That’s a fairly jaded view point. Marriage is like a lot of other decisions that people make in regards to the fact that a lot of people make the wrong decision. People buy too much house, they buy too expensive of a car, they make poor financial decisions, and they marry people they shouldn’t marry.

    “But investing isn’t about beating others at their game. It’s about controlling yourself at your own game.”
    ― Benjamin Graham, The Intelligent Investor

    #180417 Reply
    Avatar Echo 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 50
    Joined: 03/09/2016
    Earnest refinancing bonus

    I just got a call from a med school classmate last weekend who is starting the divorce process and wanted advice. The only advice is basically, “sorry to hear that. Your next year or two is going to be very tough, but you will learn a lot.” I was going to tell him how to find a good divorce lawyer, but nearly every attorney does divorce… since it is so damn common. It’s sad though. He will be lucky to “just” lose all of his retirement and need to take out loans just to keep his private practice intact when all is said and done, and his kids will soon be 3 or 4 hours away… but I’ll let his attorney be the good news bearer on all that. I just suggested he go very slow with future women and realize that while women and happiness are easy to find anywhere, money is not.

    Marriage and divorce are just industries. It is an industry of trading money (property) for sex… or at least the general idea of that. Always has been, always will be. Look at dowry and arranged marriage traditions. Marriage caters to beta males who have the scarcity mentality with regard to mating (and it caters to women who themselves, or through family pressure, function as gold diggers). It keeps those guys happy and content; it was designed that way and still largely serves the same purpose. The problem is that marriage is now a totally unnecessary risk. It is too bad many people don’t learn that early in life, as opposed to during their first divorce (if they even learn it then?)…

    Marriage served a more logical purpose back 100+ years ago when 99% of women were stay-at-home moms or cook/cleaners and women couldn’t own land. Back then, marriage also meant wives couldn’t press rape charges against their husbands, and wives would get a portion of his land value if they divorced (back when divorce was rare and only considered due to bona fide infidelity, documented abuse, mental illness, etc). It effectively made the women the sexual property of husbands in exchange for some financial security. Not ideal, but again, it was somewhat necessary back in the day… and those were also times when people were less educated and religion was much more powerfully ingrained into politics and social customs.

    In this day in age, legal marriage affords no advantage to the higher income partner. It might save them a small percentage on taxes or the lower income partner can be on health insurance with the higher income one (basically why gays want marriage), but those benefits are all dwarfed by the downsides that come with divorce. Nowadays, women can do essentially anything men can do in regards to finance, career, and investing or ownership.

    There is nothing wrong with having a wedding party or wearing rings or etc, but the actual legal marriage is a fool’s undertaking these days. Even if you are in the minority of couples who “make it” to a life-long marriage, you are likely to be one of the many “roommate” marriages that are just staying together for the kids or financial reasoning or fear of starting over. That is sad, yet those marriages are counted in the “success” percentage. Formal legal marriage just makes something that’s already traumatic and stressful (breaking up) and makes it much harder, longer, more expensive, and more hate-filled for both parties by doing formal divorce proceedings.

    If legal marriage and divorce were so “natural” and “necessary,” there wouldn’t be heavy religious and cultural pressures to do them. Little girls wouldn’t be indoctrinated about how marriage is essential for having kids (huge myth). You wouldn’t hear divorce attorney radio commercials and see ‘bridal expo’ billboards on every drive to work.

    I am in no way against long term relationships or monogamous relatoinships, and I think nearly everyone prefers them, but from both a financial and emotional health standpoint, legal marriage is the largest life risk you could ever take. You don’t need marriage to have a partner, to live together, to have kids, to take vacations together, or anything else. Marriage is a human myth and a boon a attorneys and legal systems. If you took all the marriages and divorces and child support and minor traffic stuff out of courts, that would kill well over half the caseloads, lol. GL to Bezos, my buddy, and many others who will learn the hard way. I hope they’ll never make the same mistake again.

    Related (and correct) info on what marriage was… versus what marriage now is:

    7 Reasons Why You Shouldn’t Get Married

    Click to expand…

    Wow, that is an interesting view on marriage.  I do think it minimizes the most important function of marriage, which is stability of families.  There is data that children who grow up in a stable, 2 parent family have a greater chance at success than children from broken families.  Marriage does make it hard for me to break up with my wife.  For the sake of my children, I would say that is a very good thing

    I don’t see it “sad” when people stay together for the good of the children.  I see that as people willing to make a sacrifice for their children.  Everyone says they are willing to take a bullet for their kids, but I don’t understand how so many people are willing to bail out on their kids just because their marriage relationship is challenging.  Relationships will have ups and downs, and these ups and downs can even last a few years.  There are many people who bail out during the first down time in a relationship, and don’t realize that if you put some effort in a poor relationship, that it can often be saved and turned into a very good marriage once again.

    I’m clearly not implying that people should stay in abusive relationships. Yes, people should get away from those.  I’m just saying that making the marriage bond strong and difficult to break is good for society and good for individuals, as people often need encouragement to keep going on with the relationship.  Sometimes in the life the quick and easy path is not what truly leads to happiness.  Sometimes you need to stick on the rocky, difficult path to reach the highest peak.

    #180422 Reply
    IntensiveCareBear IntensiveCareBear 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 161
    Joined: 12/22/2018
    CordMcNally wrote:

    Click to expand…

    That’s a fairly jaded view point. Marriage is like a lot of other decisions that people make in regards to the fact that a lot of people make the wrong decision. People buy too much house, they buy too expensive of a car, they make poor financial decisions, and they marry people they shouldn’t marry.

    Click to expand…

    I don’t need to get a tattoo to know that there are tons of tattoo removal shops around.

    I can talk to any vet and find out that the vast majority of pet euthanasia is not due to old age.

    I am not saying marriage cannot work, but it is not as simple as “finding the right person.” People and their needs change. I know from personal experience that plenty of women are fun to date for a few months… even a few years. They change, though (both her and I). I am not going to roll the dice -at least not legally- that any woman will be good for me (and me for her) for the next 50-70+ years.

    Even with fantastic relationship skills, long term relations are tough since people change and needs change. Stress levels wax and wane, one or both partners may have health issues or fail to keep fit, kids put stress on sleep, etc etc etc. “The wrong person” is basically just a cop-out to avoid saying one has made a bad decision; anyone saying that is basically telling you they want to quickly move on without learning the full lesson from it. A wise person knows they were probably “the wrong person” for marriage just as much as their partner… but again, you were both trying a concept with a very, very low success rate. It seems the uncompensated risk is talked about a lot here, and signing those papers is the ultimate example of that. Where is the logical benefit? To make her smile big? To make your family happy? To show commitment? Because we want to have kids? You don’t need legal marriage for any of those things. It is a tremendous risk people routinely take for no good reason.

    …Mr. Money Moustache, generally credited FIRE movement pioneer and blogger, just got divorced in the past couple years also and documented exactly what happened to his net worth. He is not a dumb guy, he was just playing a dumb game where there are very few winners (and the winners get nothing you can’t attain without playing the game). Hopefully divorce doesn’t happen to WCI or Financial Samurai or others, but they all choose to be in the public eye to make themselves money, and from that, you can see over time how divorce may affect even financially responsible people. Besides loss of wealth, it can also have even bigger emotional consequence… but maybe Mr. Money Moustache just married the wrong person 🙂

    The Economics of Divorce

    "Hmm, that sounds risky." - motto of the middle class

    #180436 Reply
    Avatar JWeb 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 113
    Joined: 02/21/2017
    just got a call from a med school classmate last weekend who is starting the divorce process and wanted advice. The only advice is basically, “sorry to hear that. Your next year or two is going to be very tough, but you will learn a lot.” I was going to tell him how to find a good divorce lawyer, but nearly every attorney does divorce… since it is so damn common. It’s sad though. He will be lucky to “just” lose all of his retirement and need to take out loans just to keep his private practice intact when all is said and done, and his kids will soon be 3 or 4 hours away… but I’ll let his attorney be the good news bearer on all that. I just suggested he go very slow with future women and realize that while women and happiness are easy to find anywhere, money is not. Marriage and divorce are just industries. It is an industry of trading money (property) for sex… or at least the general idea of that. Always has been, always will be. Look at dowry and arranged marriage traditions. Marriage caters to beta males who have the scarcity mentality with regard to mating (and it also caters to female hypergamy: women who themselves, or through family pressure, function as gold diggers). It keeps those guys happy and content (and non-violent); it was designed that way and still largely serves the same purpose. The problem is that marriage is now a totally unnecessary risk. It is too bad many people don’t learn that early in life, as opposed to during their first divorce (if they even learn it then?)… Marriage served a more logical purpose back 100+ years ago when 99% of women were stay-at-home moms or cook/cleaners and women couldn’t own land… or vote, hold office,  etc etc. Back then, marriage also meant wives couldn’t press rape charges against their husbands, and wives would get a portion of his land value if they divorced (back when divorce was rare and only considered due to bona fide infidelity, documented abuse, mental illness, etc). It effectively made the women the sexual property of husbands in exchange for some financial security. Not ideal, but again, it was somewhat necessary back in the day to avoid male violence and single mothers dying in the streets… and besides, those were also times when people were less educated and religion was much more powerfully ingrained into politics and social customs. In this day in age, legal marriage affords no advantage to the higher income partner. It might save them a small percentage on taxes or the lower income partner can be on health insurance with the higher income one (basically why gays want marriage), but those benefits are all dwarfed by the downsides that come with divorce. Nowadays, women can do essentially anything men can do in regards to finance, career, and investing or ownership. There is nothing wrong with having a wedding party or wearing rings or etc, but the actual legal marriage is a fool’s undertaking these days. Even if you are in the minority of couples who “make it” to a life-long marriage, you are likely to be one of the many “roommate” marriages that are just staying together for the kids or financial reasoning or fear of starting over. That is sad, yet those marriages are counted in the “success” percentage. Formal legal marriage just makes something that’s already traumatic and stressful (breaking up) and makes it much harder, longer, more expensive, and more hate-filled for both parties by doing formal divorce proceedings. If legal marriage and divorce were so “natural” and “necessary,” there wouldn’t be heavy religious and cultural pressures to do them. Little girls wouldn’t be indoctrinated about how marriage is essential for having kids (huge myth). You wouldn’t hear divorce attorney radio commercials and see ‘bridal expo’ billboards on every drive to work. I am in no way against long term relationships or monogamous relatoinships, and I think nearly everyone prefers them, but from both a financial and emotional health standpoint, legal marriage is the largest life risk you could ever take. You don’t need marriage to have a partner, to live together, to have kids, to take vacations together, or anything else. Marriage is a human myth and a boon a attorneys and legal systems. If you took all the marriages and divorces and child support and minor traffic stuff out of courts, that would kill well over half the caseloads, lol. GL to Bezos, my buddy, and many others who will learn the hard way. I hope they’ll never make the same mistake again.

    Click to expand…

    Yikes!  Well, me, my wife, and three kids profoundly disagree with you.

     

    #180437 Reply
    Liked by PhotonsRGR8

Reply To: Marriage: Still Your Highest Risk Venture

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