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Differing pay rates

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  • Avatar Slchino 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 2
    Joined: 03/07/2019

    Hey all
    I am an EM physician in n urban hcol area. Independent contractor with local sdg. I’ve been there full time for about 1.5 years now. I recently found out another colleague of mine is getting paid more and she’s only been there for two months and she’s actually leaving. I don’t think she was hired as a locums. Bc she also put in her notice to leave and my director was kind of pissed. The pay Rate difference is $10/hr. We are both em board certified. How would you or would you even approach the director regarding this? She’s not a nocturnist albeit more of her shifts are nights compared to me of which she tells me she didn’t agree to doing all nights. In addition I’ve talked with other longer seasoned colleagues of mine who state the pay hasn’t raised in nearly 3 yrs for them. How do I bring that up? I don’t want to rock the boat and I don’t want to lose my job due to family reasons tying me to the area. I would just up and leave but the area I’m in is super saturated and I know no other places hiring.

    Any advice would be greatly appreciated

    #196513 Reply
    Avatar Peds 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 3618
    Joined: 01/08/2016

    You can ask. Obviously you will accept a $0 change since you can’t move.
    So when they say no, say ok thanks.

    #196581 Reply
    Liked by Tim
    Avatar adventure 
    Participant
    Status: Spouse
    Posts: 1119
    Joined: 10/24/2016
    Any advice would be greatly appreciated

    Click to expand…

    Ask! Perhaps offering to help fill the gap your boss now has would help too.

    #196596 Reply
    q-school q-school 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 2338
    Joined: 05/07/2017

    you don’t get what you deserve, you get what you negotiate.

    there are other factors that come into play than being a good person, working hard, not causing trouble, and of course productivity, and risk management.

    it seems like you might be a little too nice to get the maximum pay.  hard to change who you are.  it might or might not be worth it not to stress over $10/ hour, but only you would know.  it might be beneficial for you long term to practice the art of negotiation.   read ‘never split the difference’

    it’s very rarely an all or none discussion.

    good luck!

     

     

     

    #196608 Reply
    Avatar ZZZ 
    Participant
    Status: Spouse
    Posts: 426
    Joined: 06/18/2018

    ” I don’t want to rock the boat and I don’t want to lose my job due to family reasons tying me to the area.”

    So, you have zero leverage. Ask nicely, cross your fingers, and prepare to be told no.

    #196609 Reply
    Dreamgiver Dreamgiver 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 733
    Joined: 03/09/2017

    “Hey boss, btw I heard so and so was able to make a little more, would you mind sharing what I can do to earn a bump?” If nights are not palatable to you and that is what she was doing, I probably would not say anything. It is nice to frame these things in the context of how can you help the group rather how can the group help you.

    #196630 Reply
    Craigy Craigy 
    Participant
    Status: Spouse
    Posts: 1868
    Joined: 09/16/2016
    Disability Insurance

    When they’re already down and scrambling, might be a good time to ask for that raise.  $10/hr adds up.  Also, with colleague leaving, there’s more money to go around, at least for the time being.

    LEVEL 1 WCI FORUM MEMBER.

    #196633 Reply
    Avatar Anne 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 887
    Joined: 11/07/2017

    If the director says “sure I can increase your rate by $10/hr if you work x more nights” what will your response be? If you say no thanks back how will that affect your negotiating power in the future?

    #196638 Reply
    Liked by StateOfMyHead
    Avatar DCdoc 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 410
    Joined: 06/14/2016

    Are you employed by a CMG? If so, they care only about their bottom line, not fairness. I recently saw a quote her on this board. “Comparison is the thief of joy.” I forget who wrote it (sorry) but that quote has stuck with me. You need to stay in the area for family reasons, and it’s saturated. Ignoring this other person, are you paid fairly? Are you happy? CMGs and their anesthesia counterpart (AMCs) pay rock bottom rates. They pay the bare minimum that the market will support to keep them at full staffing. Anesthesiologists (like me) and ED docs are considered interchangeable (not with one another but you know what I mean). They could bring in someone next week who, after they learn the system, will do a roughly comparable job. In your shoes, I would ask. But you need to be prepared if they come back offering a bit more per hour in exchange for more nights, or if they come back simply saying “no.”

    #196648 Reply
    Jaqen Haghar, MD Jaqen Haghar, MD 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 166
    Joined: 07/27/2017

    What are your patient per hour and RVU per patient stats compared to her’s?  It’s always good to look at the profit you are generating for the group to help determine what your value is.  If you know a little about their collections, you can easily estimate what you are bringing in for the group.

    Of course, if you are at the bottom of the list in productivity, you might find out you actually deserve a pay cut instead of a raise.

     

    #196660 Reply
    Liked by Hank
    Avatar Kamban 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 2203
    Joined: 08/01/2016
    We are both em board certified. How would you or would you even approach the director regarding this? She’s not a nocturnist albeit more of her shifts are nights compared to me of which she tells me she didn’t agree to doing all nights

    Click to expand…

    She probably agreed to some nights and they gave her a slight pay bump compared to you. But she did not think that there would be so many nights for that pay she received and is leaving. Unless you want to do the number of nights she was doing I would not ask for that extra $10/hour and be told sure, work these additional nights instead of days.

     

    I don’t want to rock the boat and I don’t want to lose my job due to family reasons tying me to the area. I would just up and leave but the area I’m in is super saturated and I know no other places hiring.

    Click to expand…

    You have no leverage. You have to stay there for family reasons and they know that. In addition they can find another person to replace you. Have a game plan of what you want to do when they say no. Sorry to be blunt.

    #196663 Reply
    Vagabond MD Vagabond MD 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 3171
    Joined: 01/21/2016
    She’s not a nocturnist albeit more of her shifts are nights compared to me of which she tells me she didn’t agree to doing all nights.

    Click to expand…

    Maybe if you agree to doing more nights, you will get the higher rate.

    This is one of the disadvantages of working with a large employer and not a democratic group. People doing the same job as you may be getting paid more (oe less).

    "Wealth is the slave of the wise man and the master of the fool.” -Seneca the Younger

    #196677 Reply
    Vagabond MD Vagabond MD 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 3171
    Joined: 01/21/2016
    I recently saw a quote her on this board. “Comparison is the thief of joy.” I forget who wrote it (sorry) but that quote has stuck with me.

    Click to expand…

    I likely posted it, quoting Teddy Roosevelt,

    "Wealth is the slave of the wise man and the master of the fool.” -Seneca the Younger

    #196680 Reply
    Liked by Zaphod, DCdoc
    Avatar Xeno 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 122
    Joined: 01/24/2016

    I have to say, I’m a huge believer in a free-market economy on pay rates, as I believe WCI’s group does. The group’s preferences establish a free-market exchange rate for nights, weekends, and holidays. Frankly, one could extend that to coverage levels — allowing people to be scheduled for busier shifts for more money/hour, within limits for patient safety/experience. Not sure why this isn’t done more widely.

    In response to the OP’s question: the best way to start a negotiation is with researching data and establishing a BATNA. If you hold them hostage for a raise when they’re short staffed, they’ll just be recruiting for one more doctor. If you get a better offer and tell them you really want to stay if they can match your competing offer, you’re less likely to jeopardize the relationship.

    #196693 Reply
    Liked by Docbeans, Hank
    Avatar StateOfMyHead 
    Participant
    Status: Advanced Practice Provider
    Posts: 63
    Joined: 01/01/2019

    If you get a better offer and tell them you really want to stay if they can match your competing offer, you’re less likely to jeopardize the relationship.

    Click to expand…

    Although if one has no intention of leaving not a strategy to attempt. You have to be willing to walk. If employer says no the employee who had zero leverage to begin with now looks like a chump, in my opinion.

    #196792 Reply
    Liked by billy

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