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CYAI: Disney Cruise for the family!

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  • fatlittlepig fatlittlepig 
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    There’s a fine but distinct line between critiquing and offering your own perspective. I hope people appreciate hearing Fatlittlepig’s perspective.

    #229600 Reply
    Avatar Anne 
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    Status: Physician
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    Joined: 11/07/2017

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    OMG someone here gets me! I was starting to lose faith, and considered finding a CEO or business owner blog.

    My original point to OP, which was completely missed by many, was that retiring with 3 kids in their teen years is unlikely to allow them to significantly reduce living expenses.

    The Mercedes is a safe and reliable 2015 GLK purchased for $20K with 20K miles on it – does that change any minds about excess?

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    The thing you have to remember is that most of the physicians here wouldn’t purchase a used Mercedes for themselves, and if you exclude Tesla owners, the average age of the cars around here is probably 8 years old.

     

    I don’t think the reaction was about the particular car or dollar amount.  The amount spent isn’t the issue.  It’s the glorification of spending and the idea that someone proudly describes their own kid as demanding only the best. It makes it sound like the driver for ambition and success is to get nice stuff.  My parents taught us that the driver for ambition and success was the reward of doing something well.  You got straight As because learning about the world was fun, not because you wanted stuff.

    You can be wealthy and provide for your kids very well but still teach them that stuff is only stuff and there is more to life and happiness than the brand of your car or shoes. Maybe the kid in question is getting that lesson but the tone suggested something different to me.

    Also the comments about if you don’t buy your daughter something she’ll go seek out a boyfriend to be a more accepting father figure is just weird to me. I’m so glad my dad didn’t make a big deal about dating and treated any friend I ever brought home, male or female, like a member of the family. He just told me he trusted me and left it at that. I never had any rules about who I could hang out with, no curfew. He taught me by example how to pick good friends and how to trust my own instincts. That trust kept me out of way more trouble than my friends who were told they couldn’t date–more than one of them in my church got pregnant in high school.

    The GLK is a nice car btw. Much nicer than the 14 y.o. dodge Aries k-car I drove in high school. But it got me where I needed to go, taught me how to drive a manual with a really crappy clutch which means I can drive anything, and taught me “if they’re laughing you don’t need them, cause they’re not good friends!” (bonus points if you can name that song)

    #229668 Reply
    q-school q-school 
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    Status: Physician
    Posts: 2492
    Joined: 05/07/2017

    .

     

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    OMG someone here gets me! I was starting to lose faith, and considered finding a CEO or business owner blog.

    My original point to OP, which was completely missed by many, was that retiring with 3 kids in their teen years is unlikely to allow them to significantly reduce living expenses.

    The Mercedes is a safe and reliable 2015 GLK purchased for $20K with 20K miles on it – does that change any minds about excess?

    Click to expand…

    The thing you have to remember is that most of the physicians here wouldn’t purchase a used Mercedes for themselves, and if you exclude Tesla owners, the average age of the cars around here is probably 8 years old.

     

    I don’t think the reaction was about the particular car or dollar amount.  The amount spent isn’t the issue.  It’s the glorification of spending and the idea that someone proudly describes their own kid as demanding only the best. It makes it sound like the driver for ambition and success is to get nice stuff.  My parents taught us that the driver for ambition and success was the reward of doing something well.  You got straight As because learning about the world was fun, not because you wanted stuff.

    You can be wealthy and provide for your kids very well but still teach them that stuff is only stuff and there is more to life and happiness than the brand of your car or shoes. Maybe the kid in question is getting that lesson but the tone suggested something different to me.

    Also the comments about if you don’t buy your daughter something she’ll go seek out a boyfriend to be a more accepting father figure is just weird to me. I’m so glad my dad didn’t make a big deal about dating and treated any friend I ever brought home, male or female, like a member of the family. He just told me he trusted me and left it at that. I never had any rules about who I could hang out with, no curfew. He taught me by example how to pick good friends and how to trust my own instincts. That trust kept me out of way more trouble than my friends who were told they couldn’t date–more than one of them in my church got pregnant in high school.

    The GLK is a nice car btw. Much nicer than the 14 y.o. dodge Aries k-car I drove in high school. But it got me where I needed to go, taught me how to drive a manual with a really crappy clutch which means I can drive anything, and taught me “if they’re laughing you don’t need them, cause they’re not good friends!” (bonus points if you can name that song)

    Click to expand…

    Totally agree with your sentiments (and your parents definitely did something right), but i do think FLP in particular is talking at least as much about the dollar amounts and the type or car.  I remain curious what FLP’s plans are for his horde of money.  If he doesn’t give to charity, his children will inherit a bundle.  Even if he doesn’t give them an adult allowance, effectively they will be winning the lottery at some point in their adult life.   It’s not clear that trickling it to them prepares them any better.  To be clear, i definitely do not know the answer to that question.

    I have seen lots of kids of privilege do great things.  I’ve been impressed by their generosity and their empathy.  I see them do things i never thought about at that age (maybe because i had three jobs and was sending money to my parents since i was 18).    I read entrepreneur md’s comments more as tongue in cheek because he knows that he is being excessive and has mixed feelings about it.  I think he often ponders the Bible verse about harder for a rich person to go to heaven than for camel to pass through the eye of the needle.  Or maybe not.  I got a different tone than you did, but i am usually terribly wrong about most things.   My current car doesn’t have heated seats or remote trunk.  Man do i hate getting out in the pouring rain to let my kid put something in the trunk.   I am for sure going to get heated seats next car.  It’s possible entrepreneurmd’s insurance costs are worth more than my car.  🙂

     

    Avatar wideopenspaces 
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    Am I the only one that doesn’t get the Disney love? I mean, I have kids and have been to Disney, I just don’t get it. Maybe if I had daughters? I did really enjoy Harry Potter world at universal, so I don’t think I’m just a stick in the mud . . .

    #229679 Reply
    Avatar StarTrekDoc 
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    This is the constant challenge of 1st world issues and winning the game.   Our kids are 2nd generation Americans and in such a short gap of nothing-but-the-shirt-on-your-back grandparents to their literally not-a-single-day-of-hardship it crazy, but true challenges in understanding what hardships can do to one’s drive and appreciation.

    We can make them volunteer at shelters, work with underprivileged children, donate unwanted things, and forego “nice” things; but my children have never experienced an empty stomach beyond a day’s fast nor will they have tattered shoes or inadequate clothing for the weather.  Their hard choices are whether to go to Disneyland upon return from China trip or hit the beach instead.

    We struggle mightily in striking that balance with them and trying to not have them become ‘trust fund kids’; knowing that it will be that if I work into my late 50s in any significant capacity and even below ave market returns. So as q-school said — if we don’t DAF a significant chunk….they WILL be trust fund kids.   My ever hope is that know to keep it real and remember that wealth is salient that can be lost, but your education and drive for improvement can’t.

    #229683 Reply
    Avatar mapplebum 
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    This is the constant challenge of 1st world issues and winning the game.   Our kids are 2nd generation Americans and in such a short gap of nothing-but-the-shirt-on-your-back grandparents to their literally not-a-single-day-of-hardship it crazy, but true challenges in understanding what hardships can do to one’s drive and appreciation.

    We can make them volunteer at shelters, work with underprivileged children, donate unwanted things, and forego “nice” things; but my children have never experienced an empty stomach beyond a day’s fast nor will they have tattered shoes or inadequate clothing for the weather.  Their hard choices are whether to go to Disneyland upon return from China trip or hit the beach instead.

    We struggle mightily in striking that balance with them and trying to not have them become ‘trust fund kids’; knowing that it will be that if I work into my late 50s in any significant capacity and even below ave market returns. So as q-school said — if we don’t DAF a significant chunk….they WILL be trust fund kids.   My ever hope is that know to keep it real and remember that wealth is salient that can be lost, but your education and drive for improvement can’t.

    Click to expand…

    This topic always confuses me. How old were you when you had kids???? I’m broaching mid 30’s and husband is 36, both sets of parents are in their 60’s. Sure,  his parents helped him more than mine but he’s been independent for the better half of a decade. We have every hope and expectation all 4 parents will live at least another 20 years….so is he a trust fund kid even if he’s in his 50’s when the windfall occurs?

     

    #229694 Reply
    Liked by Lordosis, Anne
    q-school q-school 
    Participant
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    Joined: 05/07/2017

    This is the constant challenge of 1st world issues and winning the game.   Our kids are 2nd generation Americans and in such a short gap of nothing-but-the-shirt-on-your-back grandparents to their literally not-a-single-day-of-hardship it crazy, but true challenges in understanding what hardships can do to one’s drive and appreciation.

    We can make them volunteer at shelters, work with underprivileged children, donate unwanted things, and forego “nice” things; but my children have never experienced an empty stomach beyond a day’s fast nor will they have tattered shoes or inadequate clothing for the weather.  Their hard choices are whether to go to Disneyland upon return from China trip or hit the beach instead.

    We struggle mightily in striking that balance with them and trying to not have them become ‘trust fund kids’; knowing that it will be that if I work into my late 50s in any significant capacity and even below ave market returns. So as q-school said — if we don’t DAF a significant chunk….they WILL be trust fund kids.   My ever hope is that know to keep it real and remember that wealth is salient that can be lost, but your education and drive for improvement can’t.

    Click to expand…

    This topic always confuses me. How old were you when you had kids???? I’m broaching mid 30’s and husband is 36, both sets of parents are in their 60’s. Sure,  his parents helped him more than mine but he’s been independent for the better half of a decade. We have every hope and expectation all 4 parents will live at least another 20 years….so is he a trust fund kid even if he’s in his 50’s when the windfall occurs?

     

    Click to expand…

    I think some of it depends on how much the estate is worth.  At this point, if somehow someone dropped 5 million net taxes on me, i’m not sure i would know how to handle it.  It would definitely affect my approach to life.  My kids will inherit something.  i think we have to begin to have talks with them on how they plan to use it, even if the money is doled out slowly over time (trusts have higher tax rates, so generally for middle age adults there is some incentive to get the money out).  It may or may not affect their career choice and vacation plans and they won’t have to save for kids education.  They will have a different life.    There’s a balance between not counting a chicken before its hatched and reasonable education and planning.

    It’s one thing if your husband is a surgeon and making 1% money anyways.  It’s another thing if brother in law is a social worker doing god’s work but barely scraping by and they just want to use the money to buy a house in a good school district?  Are you going to divide the inheritance equally.  They have their own lives to live, but yes, i would prefer they don’t squander the money i’m working hard to accumulate.   And on the extreme, if it’s all going to charity, i might as well be the one to donate it.

    there are no easy answers.

    jmo

     

     

    #229746 Reply
    Avatar mapplebum 
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    This is the constant challenge of 1st world issues and winning the game.   Our kids are 2nd generation Americans and in such a short gap of nothing-but-the-shirt-on-your-back grandparents to their literally not-a-single-day-of-hardship it crazy, but true challenges in understanding what hardships can do to one’s drive and appreciation.

    We can make them volunteer at shelters, work with underprivileged children, donate unwanted things, and forego “nice” things; but my children have never experienced an empty stomach beyond a day’s fast nor will they have tattered shoes or inadequate clothing for the weather.  Their hard choices are whether to go to Disneyland upon return from China trip or hit the beach instead.

    We struggle mightily in striking that balance with them and trying to not have them become ‘trust fund kids’; knowing that it will be that if I work into my late 50s in any significant capacity and even below ave market returns. So as q-school said — if we don’t DAF a significant chunk….they WILL be trust fund kids.   My ever hope is that know to keep it real and remember that wealth is salient that can be lost, but your education and drive for improvement can’t.

    Click to expand…

    This topic always confuses me. How old were you when you had kids???? I’m broaching mid 30’s and husband is 36, both sets of parents are in their 60’s. Sure,  his parents helped him more than mine but he’s been independent for the better half of a decade. We have every hope and expectation all 4 parents will live at least another 20 years….so is he a trust fund kid even if he’s in his 50’s when the windfall occurs?

     

    Click to expand…

    I think some of it depends on how much the estate is worth.  At this point, if somehow someone dropped 5 million net taxes on me, i’m not sure i would know how to handle it.  It would definitely affect my approach to life.  My kids will inherit something.  i think we have to begin to have talks with them on how they plan to use it, even if the money is doled out slowly over time (trusts have higher tax rates, so generally for middle age adults there is some incentive to get the money out).  It may or may not affect their career choice and vacation plans and they won’t have to save for kids education.  They will have a different life.    There’s a balance between not counting a chicken before its hatched and reasonable education and planning.

    It’s one thing if your husband is a surgeon and making 1% money anyways.  It’s another thing if brother in law is a social worker doing god’s work but barely scraping by and they just want to use the money to buy a house in a good school district?  Are you going to divide the inheritance equally.  They have their own lives to live, but yes, i would prefer they don’t squander the money i’m working hard to accumulate.   And on the extreme, if it’s all going to charity, i might as well be the one to donate it.

    there are no easy answers.

    jmo

     

     

    Click to expand…

    What I think of as a “Trust Fund Baby” are people who never have to work a day in their life because they come from such considerable wealth. I’ve only known a couple of those, not family of physicians but wealth from private industry. I can think of one friend who knows he has a few million coming to him once his parents pass but like I said, everyone has every hope / expectation that will be in a few decades. In the meantime he has to support his family. For the rest of the multi-generational physician families I know (husband’s included) if anything is to be inherited it will be a surprise. I don’t see it impacting anyone’s decisions. Aside from those with a massive trust it seems the hardest decision for wealthy families to make is when to stop supporting the child, not if.

    #229756 Reply
    Avatar StarTrekDoc 
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    For the record; 28yo with first kid.

    This group that talks about SORR and making sure all 250+ Monte Carlo scenarios pass for a physician level retirement, the chances are pretty good our progeny are going to see a sizable 6 if not 7 figure inheritance.

    If one has knowledge of no school debt upon graduating and an inheritance of that size, there is no pressure or reason to work for retirement savings or growing up knowing the pressure and cost of saving.   You only need to work for enjoyment because the path is already gilded.   In that context, that’s a trust fund ‘kid’.

     

    #229758 Reply
    Liked by q-school
    Vagabond MD Vagabond MD 
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    So as q-school said — if we don’t DAF a significant chunk….they WILL be trust fund kids.   My ever hope is that know to keep it real and remember that wealth is salient that can be lost, but your education and drive for improvement can’t.

    Click to expand…

    There is a very big difference between children who grow up with a large trust fund, that they start to access in their 20’s, and do not ever have to work a day in their lives and children of working professionals (like myself, as the child) who inherit a chunk of money in their 50’s and 60’s (when their parents pass away in their 80’s). In the latter case, much of life’s financial challenges, including establishing a home, building a career and raising and educating children may have passed before the inheritance is acquired.

    "Wealth is the slave of the wise man and the master of the fool.” -Seneca the Younger

    #229794 Reply
    Avatar G 
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    yeah, barring catastrophe and/or sudden upswing in my own spending, I expect my (as of now unborn) grandchildren to be trust-fund kids, my kid will just be early FI.

    Am I the only one that doesn’t get the Disney love? I mean, I have kids and have been to Disney, I just don’t get it. Maybe if I had daughters? I did really enjoy Harry Potter world at universal, so I don’t think I’m just a stick in the mud . . .

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    I am not a mouse-fanboy by any stretch, but the disney alaska cruise that we went on was one of the best vacations we’ve ever done (and we’ve done some doozies).

    #229801 Reply
    Lordosis Lordosis 
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    Hopefully I will have more grandchildren then I can afford to spoil 🙂

    “Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right.”

    #229802 Reply
    Liked by q-school
    Avatar StarTrekDoc 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
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    Joined: 01/15/2017
    So as q-school said — if we don’t DAF a significant chunk….they WILL be trust fund kids.   My ever hope is that know to keep it real and remember that wealth is salient that can be lost, but your education and drive for improvement can’t. 

    Click to expand…

    There is a very big difference between children who grow up with a large trust fund, that they start to access in their 20’s, and do not ever have to work a day in their lives and children of working professionals (like myself, as the child) who inherit a chunk of money in their 50’s and 60’s (when their parents pass away in their 80’s). In the latter case, much of life’s financial challenges, including establishing a home, building a career and raising and educating children may have passed before the inheritance is acquired.

    Click to expand…

    Totally agree.  The timing makes a difference, but the monetary stressors and perception on savings and thoughts are laid down quite early.   My childhood view of money is very different from my children’s.  They have no trust fund, but they also have little thought of money constraints that I did during my childhood.

    My kids will have no debt from college and probably little debt from professional school.  They also have a very good chance of a solid retirement funding from inheritance.  All these impact their beliefs and choices on education, career, and spending overall.

    If many of us have x30+ savings – chances are that inheritance is going to be quite sizable.

    #229921 Reply
    Avatar Tim 
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    “challenges, including establishing a home, building a career and raising and educating children”.

    That pretty well sums it up. The number of zeros limit the choices. Not so sure zeros or lack there of are motivators anyways.

    #229936 Reply
    Avatar Dont_know_mind 
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    Due to the high taxation rates on trusts, it may not be worthwhile to make a trust fund for kids (other than on death/in a Will) unless you have investable assets of over 10M.

    Very few people have net worth of over 20M.

    I associate trust fund kids to be children of parents with net wealth in the 25-100M range. There are not many of them. There are many though who receive a significant inheritance through a trust set up on death death of a parent. But receiving 1-5M in inheritance is not going to take all your money concerns away for the rest of your life.

    #230067 Reply
    Liked by Tim, q-school

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