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CYAI: Disney Cruise for the family!

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  • Avatar AR 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
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    Joined: 03/10/2016
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    The day my kids demand only the best in travel is the day we stop traveling except to the local homeless shelter to volunteer

    the day my kids expect a “house maid” to clean their messy room is the day they get a hard slap on the butt.

    the day I give a mbenz suv to my kid is well.. it ain’t never gonna happen

    the tone of of your post was of bemusement whereas this would be shameful for most people to write.

    FLP

     

     

    Click to expand…

    I guess I must also belong to the FLP school of parenting as I was thinking similarly when I read it.

    It’s so interesting to me how different parenting styles are.

     

    Ummm.. yes we share in this family, especially, calorie laden treats.

    Click to expand…

    We might differ on this though.  I mean I agree with the general sentiment, but how calorie-laden are these macaroons?  Pretty tough to find a >200 cal macaroon in my experience, and most of the ones I consume are much less than that and they still manage to taste pretty good.

    #228909 Reply
    Avatar EntrepreneurMD 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 394
    Joined: 06/10/2019
    Okay, so I enabled a little. 

    Click to expand…

    Sounds like it Haha

    Let me guess, they think they will say no to their teens whose friends come from 8 and 9 figure NW families. 

    Click to expand…

    I do not have any friends with a net worth of 8 figures and certainly not 9.  I doubt my kids will have any friends with families of that net worth either.

    I live in a middle class neighborhood and my kids will go to public school.  But saying no is an important skill.  And learning what no means is an even more important skill.

    You can live your life however you want but I for one am going to do everything in my power to prevent my kids from demanding the high life.

     

    Hopefully the poster sees this as a once or twice in a lifetime trip.  Not a new yearly occurrence.

    Click to expand…

    Unfortunately, my kids circle of friends are almost all 8-9 figure NW families. Most of our neighbors are 8-9 figure NW families. Multiple homes, regular exotic vacations, expensive hobbies, exotic and collector cars are the norm around us.

    WE are an 8 figure family in a low COLA with 20 years to retirement still. What in the world am I supposed to do with the funds if I have the kids living on rice and beans? Do we move out of an exclusive neighborhood? Do I pull the kids out of the most exclusive school in town? Would you? This is a serious question, no smart answers. I’ve been told I spend too much. I’ve been told I spend to little. That tells me, maybe just right. I don’t even know if there’s such a thing as spending too little (on possessions) if you’re still happy, it even seems to make me happier not to bother. It’s the wife and kids that aren’t quite there. My happiness seems to stem from their happiness with their spending mostly on memories but also on things, making it hard for me to reign in further when we compile a lot of unspent cash every year.

    Click to expand…

    How you described your kids privileged attitude… LORD help Fatlittlepig if that is ever me. It has nothing to do with net worth or spending.

    Click to expand…

    And lord help the kid if they do make it to/through med school and end up as a medical student or resident in my clinic.

    Click to expand…

    Anne, they may come with a personal secretary and a physician tutor.

    Seriously speaking though, my point to OP was that if I were a financial advisor, it would appear difficult to cut your expenses so much to $100K/year in a decade with one child in college and the other two approaching. That’s only $20K/year per member of the household. It’s probably doable but likely to be very tight in the peak expense years of our lives. I am right in the middle of this scenario at current age 46, and would not feel comfortable retiring now.

    Maybe in 2 decades when her children are more independent and done with college/professional degrees is more likely for most, then the $100K (adjusted for inflation I’m sure) will only need to be split between 2 people for the most part. That’s why I figured a civilian job after she gets her pension, to avoid deployment but still be able to take as many Disney cruises as they desire!

    Of course they are free to do things differently, they are requesting multiple recommendations I’m sure. I do think they’ve done a great job with their current finances.

    #228998 Reply
    fatlittlepig fatlittlepig 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 1286
    Joined: 01/26/2017
    Okay, so I enabled a little. 

    Click to expand…

    Sounds like it Haha

    Let me guess, they think they will say no to their teens whose friends come from 8 and 9 figure NW families. 

    Click to expand…

    I do not have any friends with a net worth of 8 figures and certainly not 9.  I doubt my kids will have any friends with families of that net worth either.

    I live in a middle class neighborhood and my kids will go to public school.  But saying no is an important skill.  And learning what no means is an even more important skill.

    You can live your life however you want but I for one am going to do everything in my power to prevent my kids from demanding the high life.

     

    Hopefully the poster sees this as a once or twice in a lifetime trip.  Not a new yearly occurrence.

    Click to expand…

    Unfortunately, my kids circle of friends are almost all 8-9 figure NW families. Most of our neighbors are 8-9 figure NW families. Multiple homes, regular exotic vacations, expensive hobbies, exotic and collector cars are the norm around us.

    WE are an 8 figure family in a low COLA with 20 years to retirement still. What in the world am I supposed to do with the funds if I have the kids living on rice and beans? Do we move out of an exclusive neighborhood? Do I pull the kids out of the most exclusive school in town? Would you? This is a serious question, no smart answers. I’ve been told I spend too much. I’ve been told I spend to little. That tells me, maybe just right. I don’t even know if there’s such a thing as spending too little (on possessions) if you’re still happy, it even seems to make me happier not to bother. It’s the wife and kids that aren’t quite there. My happiness seems to stem from their happiness with their spending mostly on memories but also on things, making it hard for me to reign in further when we compile a lot of unspent cash every year.

    Click to expand…

    I don’t think you get it, but that’s ok. I get it – you’re a rich guy: Ferrari, castle with multiple refrigerators and elevator. I don’t begrudge you any of that, but if the lifestyle you have, and are surrounded with, has engendered entitlement and lack of gratitude amongst your children then that in my book is a failure.

    #229011 Reply
    fatlittlepig fatlittlepig 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 1286
    Joined: 01/26/2017

    The day my kids demand only the best in travel is the day we stop traveling except to the local homeless shelter to volunteer

    the day my kids expect a “house maid” to clean their messy room is the day they get a hard slap on the butt.

    the day I give a mbenz suv to my kid is well.. it ain’t never gonna happen

    the tone of of your post was of bemusement whereas this would be shameful for most people to write.

    FLP

     

     

    Click to expand…

    I guess I must also belong to the FLP school of parenting as I was thinking similarly when I read it.

    It’s so interesting to me how different parenting styles are.

     

    Ummm.. yes we share in this family, especially, calorie laden treats. 

    Click to expand…

    We might differ on this though.  I mean I agree with the general sentiment, but how calorie-laden are these macaroons?  Pretty tough to find a >200 cal macaroon in my experience, and most of the ones I consume are much less than that and they still manage to taste pretty good.

    Click to expand…

    Trust me on this one, this was a large macaroon/cookie concoction dipped in chocolate. Only a fatpig would eat the whole thing without sharing. Along the same lines, I don’t recall the last time we have been to a restaurant and not shared an entree amongst two people, a normal human being does not require the amount of calories in a restaurant entree.

    #229012 Reply
    Avatar Kamban 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 2573
    Joined: 08/01/2016
    My 16 year old daughter Drives a Benz SUV with inflated teenager insurance rate, has the $1K iPhone + MacBook +I Pad, routinely goes over on data charges, goes to private HS school ($10K/year), has an hourly private tutor ($5K/year), is currently enrolled in a summer SAT prep course for $6K, has a private collage advisor ($2K/year), owns a horse plus boarding/vet/show expenses ($11K/year), shops brand names daily/only, fast food is beneath her, room is the messiest for the house maid, demands only the best in travel (Europe, San Francisco/Beverly Hills, Dubai, Far East), music/movie/subscriptions, almost daily Starbucks of course.

    Click to expand…

    In this day and age how do you not have unlimited data bundle to prevent this from happening. We have T mobile – 4 phones all included for $140, so that I don’t car where and how my 15 year old uses her 2 year old Samsung S8+.

    You are teaching her expensive habits so you will have to pay for it later. Why does a 16 year old need a Benz. Or daily Starbucks. Or exotic travels. Or all those subscriptions ( mine does free spotify, free youtube and the Netflix that comes free with T-mobile). You earn well and can afford it but should you be teaching this lifestyle at this age.

     

    Let me guess, they think they will say no to their teens whose friends come from 8 and 9 figure NW families.

    Click to expand…

    I think it does not matter how much their peer’s families are worth. Mine mixes with friends who come from 4-9 figure net worth families and never once felt that we need to keep up with the Jones.

    #229038 Reply
    q-school q-school 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 2640
    Joined: 05/07/2017

    My 16 year old daughter Drives a Benz SUV with inflated teenager insurance rate, has the $1K iPhone + MacBook +I Pad, routinely goes over on data charges, goes to private HS school ($10K/year), has an hourly private tutor ($5K/year), is currently enrolled in a summer SAT prep course for $6K, has a private collage advisor ($2K/year), owns a horse plus boarding/vet/show expenses ($11K/year), shops brand names daily/only, fast food is beneath her, room is the messiest for the house maid, demands only the best in travel (Europe, San Francisco/Beverly Hills, Dubai, Far East), music/movie/subscriptions, almost daily Starbucks of course.

    Click to expand…

    In this day and age how do you not have unlimited data bundle to prevent this from happening. We have T mobile – 4 phones all included for $140, so that I don’t car where and how my 15 year old uses her 2 year old Samsung S8+.

    You are teaching her expensive habits so you will have to pay for it later. Why does a 16 year old need a Benz. Or daily Starbucks. Or exotic travels. Or all those subscriptions ( mine does free spotify, free youtube and the Netflix that comes free with T-mobile). You earn well and can afford it but should you be teaching this lifestyle at this age.

     

    Let me guess, they think they will say no to their teens whose friends come from 8 and 9 figure NW families.

    Click to expand…

    I think it does not matter how much their peer’s families are worth. Mine mixes with friends who come from 4-9 figure net worth families and never once felt that we need to keep up with the Jones.

    Click to expand…

    thing is at that level of worth, entrepreneurMD’s lifestyle is more typical than the lifestyle you describe.  at some point, people spend more because they can and it is not a tradeoff.  just a decision.   entrepreneur MD has spoken of the importance of habits, so i assume he will agree.  habits kids observe will be modeled.  he’s made a different choice about lifestyle than many here.  likely the choices will affect the habits/views of the children for a long time, but again that is just a choice.  at least the money is spent on education, on safe transportation, on travel experiences.  in a way, it is an extreme version of the american dream we hope for.  on here, we tend to praise thriftiness, but we all say we can’t take it with us.   so here is the conundrum.

    None of these comments are not directed at Kamban by the way, who is my muse.

    many of us are far past any reasonable discussion of ‘need’ and are far into wants.    i think we should exercise some caution here as we discuss parenting approaches.  i don’t know anything about parenting, i was raised by wolves.  i make it up as i go.  i’m praying my kids are happy and well adjusted and prepared for life.  i’m sure everyone is just trying to do what they think best.

    be thoughtful about choices others make and discuss, learn from them, listen to them, but please let’s all remain cordial.

     

    #229046 Reply
    Avatar Kamban 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 2573
    Joined: 08/01/2016
    thing is at that level of worth, entrepreneurMD’s lifestyle is more typical than the lifestyle you describe. at some point, people spend more because they can and it is not a tradeoff. just a decision. entrepreneur MD has spoken of the importance of habits, so i assume he will agree. habits kids observe will be modeled. he’s made a different choice about lifestyle than many here. likely the choices will affect the habits/views of the children for a long time, but again that is just a choice. at least the money is spent on education, on safe transportation, on travel experiences. in a way, it is an extreme version of the american dream we hope for. on here, we tend to praise thriftiness, but we all say we can’t take it with us. so here is the conundrum.

    Click to expand…

    Very wise post. And BTW, i agree with Entrepreneur MD and his choices and dilemma. How to use the money that one earns without hoarding too much yet not be extravagant and raise spoiled brats.

    I am in the same boat. My “needs” have gone by many moons ago. How do I raise a child who will live a financial responsible life, a life with empathy for others and yet be able to handle millions that she will inevitably inherit. I too take vacations aboard with my family but not to luxury hotels or resorts. I get good phones for her but make her hold on to it for 3+ years. Make her do a summer internship that pays a small stipend so that she know how ordinary people earn and how much, what taxes mean and what it means to save and invest.

    I value education and would have paid for private school but she prefers a great IB program in one of the worst public schools in the state. She does not want to do SAT coaching other than Khan academy. She will be delighted with a near new CRV like vehicle even though we can easily afford a BMW for her. But what I might spend money for is her full education, whether ti be public or private colleges, including higher education.

    BTW, I have 8-9 figure friends whose children have gotten higher end vehicles in colleges but have been bought up so well that they behave as down to earth children that I would be proud to call as my own. And spoiled brats from parents barely 6 figure worth.

     

    Avatar Anne 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 1233
    Joined: 11/07/2017

    No problem with a kid driving a MB/BMW/Tesla or traveling to Europe. The problem is them expecting this from life, feeling like they have a right to demand it, and can’t settle for anything less. You are setting them up for unhappiness when the world tells them no and they never learned to handle that before.

    Whenever I have an entitled patient/resident/acquaintance I have to remind myself they weren’t born that way, someone treated them in a way that caused them to develop that trait. It allows me to have more empathy but I still have no problem telling them no and watching them not know how to handle it.

    I know my thoughts on parenting have little merit, but I think some people use their kids as an extension of themselves, and spoil their kids as a way of extended signaling (did you see little Jenny’s new car? Her dad must be doing so well!!!). When you are indulging someone who has limited understanding of what that indulgence means, where it came from, what it’s like to go without, what it feels like to choose to go without so that someone else can benefit, I think you are setting them up for failure.

    Getting back to the OP, military brats tend to not be brats IME. They know what it’s like to have to move to a new location despite loving their friends/school/etc, and having no say in the matter. They know what it’s like to have mom or dad away for months at a time. They pretty much intrinsically understand the definition of sacrifice. I don’t see how a Disney cruise means a permanent change in lifestyle, it just means that for a week or two it’s all about them for once. Go for it OP.

    Avatar AR 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 873
    Joined: 03/10/2016

    The day my kids demand only the best in travel is the day we stop traveling except to the local homeless shelter to volunteer

    the day my kids expect a “house maid” to clean their messy room is the day they get a hard slap on the butt.

    the day I give a mbenz suv to my kid is well.. it ain’t never gonna happen

    the tone of of your post was of bemusement whereas this would be shameful for most people to write.

    FLP

     

     

    Click to expand…

    I guess I must also belong to the FLP school of parenting as I was thinking similarly when I read it.

    It’s so interesting to me how different parenting styles are.

     

    Ummm.. yes we share in this family, especially, calorie laden treats. 

    Click to expand…

    We might differ on this though.  I mean I agree with the general sentiment, but how calorie-laden are these macaroons?  Pretty tough to find a >200 cal macaroon in my experience, and most of the ones I consume are much less than that and they still manage to taste pretty good.

    Click to expand…

    Trust me on this one, this was a large macaroon/cookie concoction dipped in chocolate. Only a fatpig would eat the whole thing without sharing. Along the same lines, I don’t recall the last time we have been to a restaurant and not shared an entree amongst two people, a normal human being does not require the amount of calories in a restaurant entree.

    Click to expand…

    Well that does sound a bit different.  But hopefully you can agree that saying “shared a macaroon” with no further description does sound a bit odd.

    #229102 Reply
    Avatar AR 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 873
    Joined: 03/10/2016
    Splash Refinancing Bonus
    I doubt in 10 years they can retire on $100K. Doesn’t see practical with 3 teenage children. That’s a 50% spending hit despite inflation, and their kids will be in peak teen spending years (cell phones, cars, sports, concerts, food, tutoring/college prep courses, etc..). 

    Click to expand…

    Actually, that is a very good point about early retirement and probably something I need to add to my arsenal in future talks with early retirers. (Of course, I happen to be in the camp that kids are old enough to earn their own money if they are old enough to use smartphones, drive cars, and go out on dates.)

    Click to expand…

    Glad to provide you with future practical ammunition for stubborn clients (like me).

    Regarding the kids earning their own money…

    My 16 year old daughter Drives a Benz SUV with inflated teenager insurance rate, has the $1K iPhone + MacBook +I Pad, routinely goes over on data charges, goes to private HS school ($10K/year), has an hourly private tutor ($5K/year), is currently enrolled in a summer SAT prep course for $6K, has a private collage advisor ($2K/year), owns a horse plus boarding/vet/show expenses ($11K/year), shops brand names daily/only, fast food is beneath her, room is the messiest for the house maid, demands only the best in travel (Europe, San Francisco/Beverly Hills, Dubai, Far East), music/movie/subscriptions, almost daily Starbucks of course. And I am exactly 10 years older than OP, her desired retirement age, with $800K children’s college/graduate expenses around the corner for 2, not 3, children.

    Okay, so I enabled a little. Now you know why I consider making my kids take out some student loans in college.

    Daughter’s not allowed to date until 30, or maybe 35?

    …how much can she possibly earn to offset all the costs?

    Those dreamers retiring in their 30’s or 40’s have no idea of the lack of control over their expenses that’s coming like a runaway train in the not too distant future. Let me guess, they think they will say no to their teens whose friends come from 8 and 9 figure NW families. Good luck with that!

    Click to expand…

    That private school tuition seems like a great bargain.  In my area it’s about 3-5x for high school.  The weird thing is that if tuition is only 10K/yr it seems like there are plenty of people who are sub 8-9 figure who could easily afford that.    Even at that level of tuition, it would seem that 8-9 fig NWs would be the exception rather than the norm. And if the school is mostly people coming form 8-9 fig NW families, then I think the school is really underpricing their tutition.  They could easily double it and no one would even blink.

    #229108 Reply
    Lordosis Lordosis 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
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    Joined: 02/11/2019

    I pay 10k a year in school taxes and I do not have any kids in school. Yet…

    “Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right.”

    #229116 Reply
    Avatar StarTrekDoc 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
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    Joined: 01/15/2017

    I pay 10k a year in school taxes and I do not have any kids in school. Yet…

    Click to expand…

    You’ll have plenty of opportunities coming up with what….FOUR kids?  Tip of the hat sir.

    #229152 Reply
    Lordosis Lordosis 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
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    Joined: 02/11/2019

    That is the nice thing about school taxes. Flat rate.

    “Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right.”

    #229156 Reply
    Avatar Physician Finance Basics 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 37
    Joined: 06/02/2019

    Hopefully the poster sees this as a once or twice in a lifetime trip.  Not a new yearly occurrence.

    Click to expand…

    Agree with Lordosis and others who pointed this out. If it is a once in a lifetime trip, not sure this is the best time to do it- with the littlest one being 2-3 yrs of age. Disney cruises have so much to offer, even teens are well entertained- so it’s not like they’re running out of time with their 6 and 9 yo. I waited till mine was 4 and even that felt too young to appreciate a lot of the stuff. Just my 2c. If the family does decide to go, wishing them a lifetime of wonderful memories!!

    Blogging and videocasting about the basics of personal finance at http://physicianfinancebasics.com

    #229159 Reply
    Hank Hank 
    Moderator
    Status: Attorney
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    Joined: 03/27/2017

    Haven’t gone on a Disney cruise yet, but I hear lots of good things about them from those who’ve been on them with kids or grandkids.  Rather a pricey splurge compared to other cruises, but I can see how it could be worth it.

    We’ve done quite well with last minute discount cruises through vacationstogo.com.  (Legendary Journeys is supposed to be quite good for Florida residents.)  Celebrity is our default go-to cruise line, but we’ve been on good cruises with Princess, Royal Caribbean, Holland, Costa, etc.  Didn’t especially care for the lack of regularly scheduled dining with Norwegian, but the price and itinerary were good.

    For a few dollars more, Azamara was excellent.  Better still if someone else were paying!  We’ve talked with retired family members who had nothing but good things to say about Oceania and Crystal.

    We’ve had plenty of great vacations on the cheap on mid- to higher-end cruise lines.  Heck, our eldest offspring had nothing but good to say about the kids club on Carnival.  We’ve had excellent experiences taking our junior high / high school age nieces and nephews on cruises with us.  Nothing makes Greek or Roman history come alive quite like seeing the actual historical sites like Athens, Rhodes, Olympia, and Ephesus with your own two eyes!

    The original poster should take her husband and kids on the Alaskan cruise through Disney.  She also should look into space available travel with the military and military rates and kids travel free deals through MSC and Costa.  She should take her lumps on deployments, and balance good opportunities for the kids and career setbacks for her working husband with overseas tours.  (Plan it well; his career shouldn’t founder permanently if you spend 18-24 months in Europe.)  The net present value of missing one year of earnings in exchage for one more year of credit towards retirement was a bit different than I expected.  I thought the extra year of active duty service and the extra $11K per year would be a clear winner, but it might not be.

    In any event, splurge on this one cruise, keep a sharp eye out for other vacation opportunities, and gut it out until you hit 20 years for retirement!  You are on a great path!

    #229216 Reply

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