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  • Zaphod Zaphod 
    Participant
    Status: Physician, Small Business Owner
    Posts: 5227
    Joined: 01/12/2016

    Nothing would have made me happier than if they somehow got crypto onto real markets last year outside of just futures. It would be a dream to trade them. Lots of air was taken out of the market with futures and the availability of two sided trading. However, as they say you can always lose 100% more!

    Whats wrong with twitter? Its pretty much my favorite.

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    Thank you for your reply.  Fidelity is launching a bitcoin/crypto custodial service for institutional investors in March.  I am not a trader.  But if this service becomes available to individual investors, it may be an option for you.  I am optimistic about the long term prospects of the bitcoin network.  I don’t day trade for this reason, but many people have made money doing this (and lost money, of course).  I treat it like other investments in my portfolio, buy and hold.  I do try to spend bitcoin when the opportunity presents itself in an effort to help the “bitcoin community.”

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    I dont think there is much if any future for ‘crypto’ as currently guessed by proponents. Literally every single issue brought up by naysayers has come true or continues to show what a failure it is.

    I just want the chance to get on the other side of these trades, or both sides just depending I dont care I like money, in a trusted environment. I would never put a penny where it can be stolen and you have no recourse.

    #188621 Reply
    Liked by ITEngineer
    ENT Doc ENT Doc 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 2510
    Joined: 01/14/2017

    Still waiting on that “how”…

    #188630 Reply
    Liked by Zaphod, Peds
    Zaphod Zaphod 
    Participant
    Status: Physician, Small Business Owner
    Posts: 5227
    Joined: 01/12/2016
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    In 2017 the US spent 3.5 trillion dollars on “healthcare” representing 18% of GDP.  This is approximately 10,700 dollars/person.  We are 22 trillion dollars in debt, therefore, I do not think this can continue for much longer.

     

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    No offense intended here. Why does this matter in regards to blockchain? How does it address it?

    What do our debt levels have to do with anything? Why can it not go on? How long is much longer and under what circumstances cant it continue.

    Most everyone, this forum included is woefully ignorant of how the monetary system works from basic perspective and sayings invoking debt/gdp/ and it being a problem etc…are pretty big giveaways in that regard.

    The US may have that much debt, but what about its assets? Do you ever worry about debt in isolation or out of context to such things? What about whose asset this debt is? Interesting questions.

    I guess if the US was smart they could have converted the debt to Bitcoin in December and it would have taken care of itself.

    #188633 Reply
    Liked by jfoxcpacfp
     allb0003 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 13
    Joined: 02/06/2019
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    In 2017 the US spent 3.5 trillion dollars on “healthcare” representing 18% of GDP.  This is approximately 10,700 dollars/person.  We are 22 trillion dollars in debt, therefore, I do not think this can continue for much longer.

     

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    No offense intended here. Why does this matter in regards to blockchain? How does it address it?

    What do our debt levels have to do with anything? Why can it not go on? How long is much longer and under what circumstances cant it continue.

    Most everyone, this forum included is woefully ignorant of how the monetary system works from basic perspective and sayings invoking debt/gdp/ and it being a problem etc…are pretty big giveaways in that regard.

    The US may have that much debt, but what about its assets? Do you ever worry about debt in isolation or out of context to such things? What about whose asset this debt is? Interesting questions.

    I guess if the US was smart they could have converted the debt to Bitcoin in December and it would have taken care of itself.

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    Zaphod – Thanks for your questions and comments. Sincerely appreciated.  In my initial post, I mentioned that, IMO, blockchain technology could offer benefits within the health care sector.  I mention the cost of healthcare, because as most experts agree, we spend too much on healthcare in this country.  As physicians, we see the inner workings of the system. We cannot continue to spend 18% of GDP on healthcare and still have an uninsured rate of over 10%.  Blockchain could offer a solution.  I have hesitated to go into the details because it seems that most on here are very skeptical, to say the least, about cryptocurrency and blockchain.  Therefore, explaining how it could help seems to be a moot point. I totally understand the concerns that many of you have mentioned.  It has been helpful for me to see the relative lack of interest.

     

     

    #188635 Reply
    Zaphod Zaphod 
    Participant
    Status: Physician, Small Business Owner
    Posts: 5227
    Joined: 01/12/2016
    Click to expand…

    In 2017 the US spent 3.5 trillion dollars on “healthcare” representing 18% of GDP.  This is approximately 10,700 dollars/person.  We are 22 trillion dollars in debt, therefore, I do not think this can continue for much longer.

     

    Click to expand…

    No offense intended here. Why does this matter in regards to blockchain? How does it address it?

    What do our debt levels have to do with anything? Why can it not go on? How long is much longer and under what circumstances cant it continue.

    Most everyone, this forum included is woefully ignorant of how the monetary system works from basic perspective and sayings invoking debt/gdp/ and it being a problem etc…are pretty big giveaways in that regard.

    The US may have that much debt, but what about its assets? Do you ever worry about debt in isolation or out of context to such things? What about whose asset this debt is? Interesting questions.

    I guess if the US was smart they could have converted the debt to Bitcoin in December and it would have taken care of itself.

    Click to expand…

    Zaphod – Thanks for your questions and comments. Sincerely appreciated.  In my initial post, I mentioned that, IMO, blockchain technology could offer benefits within the health care sector.  I mention the cost of healthcare, because as most experts agree, we spend too much on healthcare in this country.  As physicians, we see the inner workings of the system. We cannot continue to spend 18% of GDP on healthcare and still have an uninsured rate of over 10%.  Blockchain could offer a solution.  I have hesitated to go into the details because it seems that most on here are very skeptical, to say the least, about cryptocurrency and blockchain.  Therefore, explaining how it could help seems to be a moot point. I totally understand the concerns that many of you have mentioned.  It has been helpful for me to see the relative lack of interest.

     

     

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    You didnt answer any of the questions. Of course we’re skeptical, and we were just as skeptical at 20k, hell I was near giddy, but alas found it to difficult to short.

    People are wondering since there is no endogenous way blockchain automagically does anything to healthcare. Do you know an application where blockchain addition has done anything other than increase costs? It has to do something. Healthcares problems arent solely or majority a technical one.

    Why cant we continue to spend 18% on healthcare? Is there some rule or percent that isnt allowed? We spend what we deem valuable, should these diverge and you have a problem. We are a rich country and if we choose to spend on healthcare so be it, it only seems a natural thing to do in a rich country.

    #188637 Reply
    ENT Doc ENT Doc 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 2510
    Joined: 01/14/2017
    I have hesitated to go into the details because it seems that most on here are very skeptical, to say the least, about cryptocurrency and blockchain.  Therefore, explaining how it could help seems to be a moot point. I totally understand the concerns that many of you have mentioned.

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    This makes no sense.  I (and others) asked pointed questions as to what you are referring to re: helping alleviate healthcare costs.  I have yet to see a response.  As a general matter, if you can’t explain yourself in a follow up question (or refuse to) then don’t bother floating grand ideas.  You will typically win over doctors with logical arguments.  The floor is yours.

    #188639 Reply
    Liked by Peds, Zaphod
    Zaphod Zaphod 
    Participant
    Status: Physician, Small Business Owner
    Posts: 5227
    Joined: 01/12/2016
    I have hesitated to go into the details because it seems that most on here are very skeptical, to say the least, about cryptocurrency and blockchain.  Therefore, explaining how it could help seems to be a moot point. I totally understand the concerns that many of you have mentioned. 

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    This makes no sense.  I (and others) asked pointed questions as to what you are referring to re: helping alleviate healthcare costs.  I have yet to see a response.  As a general matter, if you can’t explain yourself in a follow up question (or refuse to) then don’t bother floating grand ideas.  You will typically win over doctors with logical arguments.  The floor is yours.

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    Well some are just looking for an echo chamber. In that case, you really need to address your priors and consider very strongly the arguments of the other side.

    #188640 Reply
     allb0003 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 13
    Joined: 02/06/2019

    Zaphod, ENT Doc –

     

    You didnt answer any of the questions. Of course we’re skeptical, and we were just as skeptical at 20k, hell I was near giddy, but alas found it to difficult to short.

    People are wondering since there is no endogenous way blockchain automagically does anything to healthcare. Do you know an application where blockchain addition has done anything other than increase costs?

    I do know of other applications where blockchain has decreased costs.  An example would be sending money across borders for 4 pennies instead of the 10% transaction fee charged by a company like Western Union.  The same could be said of everyday transactions such as buying a cup of coffee.  If paid in BTC, the cost is around 1 penny.  Most credit cards charge 3%.  

     

    It has to do something. Healthcares problems arent solely or majority a technical one.

    I agree – I never suggested technology was the only problem facing healthcare.

     

    Why cant we continue to spend 18% on healthcare? Is there some rule or percent that isnt allowed? We spend what we deem valuable, should these diverge and you have a problem. We are a rich country and if we choose to spend on healthcare so be it, it only seems a natural thing to do in a rich country.

     

    We have the largest economy in the world and continue to have a lot of potential.  However, 22 trillion dollars of debt and the fact that we have not had a balanced budget since President Clinton is concerning to me.  Our debt is now larger than our GDP.  If these stats are not concerning to most, than it is just a difference of opinions.

    #188677 Reply
     allb0003 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 13
    Joined: 02/06/2019
    I have hesitated to go into the details because it seems that most on here are very skeptical, to say the least, about cryptocurrency and blockchain.  Therefore, explaining how it could help seems to be a moot point. I totally understand the concerns that many of you have mentioned. 

    Click to expand…

    This makes no sense.  I (and others) asked pointed questions as to what you are referring to re: helping alleviate healthcare costs.  I have yet to see a response.  As a general matter, if you can’t explain yourself in a follow up question (or refuse to) then don’t bother floating grand ideas.  You will typically win over doctors with logical arguments.  The floor is yours.

    Click to expand…

    ENT Doc

    How can blockchain technology help to alleviate healthcare costs?

     

    An example – Mass General is working with a Korean blockchain called MEDIBLOCK to investigate quicker and more efficient ways to store health care data such as demographics, imaging, labs and other criteria.  If stored on a decentralized blockchain – it would likely be more secure and more easily shared between hospital systems, patients, insurers, and physicians.  I suspect this would result in some savings.

     

    Another Example – A blockchain with embedded algorithms could help to set costs in a more fair and equitable way.

     

    #188680 Reply
    ENT Doc ENT Doc 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 2510
    Joined: 01/14/2017

    “Another Example – A blockchain with embedded algorithms could help to set costs in a more fair and equitable way.“

    For the third time, how? How will Blockchain replace insurance companies?

    #188682 Reply
    Liked by jfoxcpacfp, Peds
     allb0003 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 13
    Joined: 02/06/2019

    “Another Example – A blockchain with embedded algorithms could help to set costs in a more fair and equitable way.“

    For the third time, how? How will Blockchain replace insurance companies?

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    Current Scenario – We pay premiums – insurance companies take those premiums, make billions of dollars in profits – and use the remaining money to pay for healthcare.

     

    Blockchain technology could potentially “take premiums” in the form of fiat and put all of the money back into the system with a currency issuance type algorithm.  For instance, we paid 3.5 trillion in healthcare in 2017.

     

    Take 1/2 of that and invest it into a block chain. Convert it to cryptocurrency. The blockchain issues the health tokens on Jan 1. The tokens can then be spent on health care by citizens.  So on Jan 1 you have 10 health tokens instead of an “insurance policy.”  The blockchain doesn’t necessarily need a “profit.” Likely wouldn’t require a new chain. Could probably be done within the current BTC network.

     

    I could go on.  But I plan to work with the uninsured in our county to see if a system like this could work.  We have a non profit here that may be willing to participate.

    #188693 Reply
    abds abds 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 153
    Joined: 01/16/2017

    Please do go on. My interest is piqued. I think you’re completely wrong, but I still find it interesting.

    #188696 Reply
     jacoavlu 
    Moderator
    Status: Physician, Small Business Owner
    Posts: 1683
    Joined: 03/01/2018
    Disability Insurance
    Current Scenario – We pay premiums – insurance companies take those premiums, make billions of dollars in profits – and use the remaining money to pay for healthcare.   Blockchain technology could potentially “take premiums” in the form of fiat and put all of the money back into the system with a currency issuance type algorithm.  For instance, we paid 3.5 trillion in healthcare in 2017.   Take 1/2 of that and invest it into a block chain. Convert it to cryptocurrency. The blockchain issues the health tokens on Jan 1. The tokens can then be spent on health care by citizens.  So on Jan 1 you have 10 health tokens instead of an “insurance policy.”  The blockchain doesn’t necessarily need a “profit.” Likely wouldn’t require a new chain. Could probably be done within the current BTC network.   I could go on.  But I plan to work with the uninsured in our county to see if a system like this could work.  We have a non profit here that may be willing to participate.

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    Not that I think this is a solution or even a good idea. But I don’t even see how this relates to blockchain. Why couldn’t this be done with dollars and regular bank accounts?

    The Finance Buff's solo 401k contribution spreadsheet: https://goo.gl/6cZKVA

    #188697 Reply
    Liked by Peds
    Zaphod Zaphod 
    Participant
    Status: Physician, Small Business Owner
    Posts: 5227
    Joined: 01/12/2016

    I have hesitated to go into the details because it seems that most on here are very skeptical, to say the least, about cryptocurrency and blockchain.  Therefore, explaining how it could help seems to be a moot point. I totally understand the concerns that many of you have mentioned.

    Click to expand…

    This makes no sense.  I (and others) asked pointed questions as to what you are referring to re: helping alleviate healthcare costs.  I have yet to see a response.  As a general matter, if you can’t explain yourself in a follow up question (or refuse to) then don’t bother floating grand ideas.  You will typically win over doctors with logical arguments.  The floor is yours.

    Click to expand…

    ENT Doc

    How can blockchain technology help to alleviate healthcare costs?

     

    An example – Mass General is working with a Korean blockchain called MEDIBLOCK to investigate quicker and more efficient ways to store health care data such as demographics, imaging, labs and other criteria.  If stored on a decentralized blockchain – it would likely be more secure and more easily shared between hospital systems, patients, insurers, and physicians.  I suspect this would result in some savings.

     

    Another Example – A blockchain with embedded algorithms could help to set costs in a more fair and equitable way.

     

    Click to expand…

    Decentralized data has not shown itself to be more secure or faster or cheaper than anything.

    The costs you quote arent real, there are heavy transactions costs across any crypto platform for transacting. They have historically been massive.

    Anyone with a pencil or mouse can set costs more fairly, no one is trying to do so, theyre trying to make money. Big difference there. If your big idea is to get rid of insurance I mean everyone has thought of that, doing it is a bigger deal in real life. They will fight.

    What does debt have to do with GDP? Debt service to GDP maybe matters, when someone no longer wants to buy our assets. Also overlooks the assets side of the equation which is quite large.

    #188700 Reply
    Liked by jfoxcpacfp
    ENT Doc ENT Doc 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 2510
    Joined: 01/14/2017

    You’re off your Blockchain.

    #188704 Reply

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