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Children or no Children?

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  • Zaphod Zaphod 
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    Status: Physician, Small Business Owner
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    Joined: 01/12/2016

    … having a child would not throw a monkey wrench in that.

     

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    oh, a dare? haha. But seriously, you can do a lot with kids, its just a lot less and not very spontaneous. We took a 6 month old to Hawaii, still did mostly everything but obviously more work had to snorkel in tag team instead of together as much. Sometimes your days out get cut short, and gourmet meals turn into whatever.

    #71852 Reply
    Avatar jessikaur 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 90
    Joined: 11/01/2017
    There is an enormous loss of freedom with kids.

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    I think this is the my biggest fear. My husband says that I live my life at extremes, I can’t just half-ass something. And freedom is so important to me, hell I just quit a very nice job the moment they tried to lock me down into 12 hr in house shifts.

    So I’m afraid I’d lose myself if I had kids and all of my efforts would be shifted to the kids to help them achieve their dreams and goals, and everything I still want to accomplish would be put on hold for 10-15 years, and then may never happen.

    I don’t think that missing out on 10-14 years of travel is such a big deal. You can catch up later. Also, so far, I don’t find that having kids has been all that expensive. On our salaries, high chairs and toys, and food and diapers were trivial expenses. The big expenses have been day care( 2k per month per kid in this HCOL area), private schools (optional; around here 25k/yr for k-8, 45k/yr for high school. prices rise each year) , summer camp ( 3-5k per kid per summer ), and the 529 plans, but fortunately we have been able to afford those as well without messing up our financial plans.

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    Ok. Kids are expensive, fine. that’s not the problem I guess. and good god, I am not paying for private school, I went to public school, and I turned out just fine.

    I’ve taken an accounting on all of your answers for nannies/daycare it seems like it could run anywhere between 20K – 50K per child depending upon on area..

    As to travel the biggest restriction is that during school years you can travel only during their holidays. Those will be expensive. But still worth a sacrifice. I have taken my daughter since age 5 to Peru, Ecuador, Canada many times, India, Greece, Turkey, Hungary, Austria, Germany, Czech rep, Spain, Russia, Finland, Australia ( and yes Tasmania too), Tanzania, Kenya and now planning a S. America or Cambodia trip. These have been a great education for her that no books or Disney trips will replace. There is no right or wrong answer. But my life ( and my wife’s too) has changed dramatically with the birth of our daughter. And we are so grateful for that.

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    This is promising. Also, sorry for the spelling error and the misconception that Tasmania was it’s own country. I was planning on doing that trip over next thanksgiving/beginning of december, is that a good time? I haven’t done any research on it yet, as I’m still working on the argentina/italy trip which come earlier.

    #71856 Reply
    hatton1 hatton1 
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    Status: Physician
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    Joined: 01/11/2016

    Well I can give you my perspective.  I am 60 years old with no kids.  I married late at 52.  I did acquire a step-daughter and 5 grandkids this way.  I am close to my brothers children who live in the same town that I do.  I decided early on that what I did not want was to be a single parent.  I think that would be just too tough.  I really do not think I regret not having kids.  There are always lots of kids at family gatherings.  I kind of like peace and quiet.  As an OB/GYN it is better for you and your husband to be all in on the decision.  Plenty of professional women seem happy without kids if that is your choice.  I think some women know from an early age that having children is important to them. In fact I see lots of intelligent women who want a child so bad that they get involved with totally inappropriate men.  Only you and your husband can make this  decision.  If you want them get on it soon. Tick. Tock.

    Avatar jessikaur 
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    Status: Physician
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    Joined: 11/01/2017
    I didn’t read the whole thing either, but does your husband want a kid? I have two teenage sons and will definitely miss them in a few years when they are off in college. I couldn’t imagine not having kids, but my wife and I wanted kids without hesitation. Fortunately, we waited until we were married a few years before we had our first.

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    I am definitely going to do shorter posts from now on. Anyway, husband is ambivalent, we both want them and don’t want them for the same reasons. Of course, he left this decision completely in my court.. meaning if I don’t want to do it, he’s fine with that, and if I want to do it, he’s fine with that too. It kind of sucks, I wish someone else could make this decision for me because there are pluses and minuses to both sides.

    The dink life is nice.

     

    But for you, it’s now or never.

     

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    I know!! The time pressure is the worst. If I could just have another 15 years to decide I don’t even think I would be stressing this! Men are so lucky. They have forever.

    #71860 Reply
    Liked by Craigy, Zaphod
    Avatar jessikaur 
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    Status: Physician
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    Joined: 11/01/2017
    you sound freaking awesome ???? ! I’m a 33 YO female MD, currently no kids, unmarried. I do plan to have a family at some point, but, like you, I love to travel (I’m into scuba and mountaineering), and hope to continue to do so later in life once I do have a family. Do you think your folks or in laws can watch the kids while you guys go travel sometimes? That was what I was hoping… By the way, how was Sri Lanka? I am thinking about going there this Spring, Vs. Uganda/Rwanda. Side note: I recently ran into a family of six (parents and 4 kids between the ages of 5 and 10 or so) travelling from Alaska to the tip of South America for a year. They were skiing on Mt. Hood in Portland. Why not?

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    I’m totally getting into scuba this summer (which in florida starts in April), they actually do scuba lessons on the lake I live on.. I was always afraid of it before because I feel so restricted in all the gear, but since it’s in my backyard and I swim in the lake everyday, I think I’m gonna go for it.

    So both sets of parents are not available for any grand-parenting duty. Both my parents have passed away (both young too!) and my husband’s parents are dealing with alzheimer’s dementia… I would never dream of asking them for help, so it would definitely be hiring an army full of help, which I’ve now learned is VERY expensive… just have to keep on working forever, or live a more stringent lifestyle. Actually, my husband said, once we have kids, all that money we throw away on luxury travel and fine dining could just be spent on the kids since we won’t be going anywhere anyway. =(

    Sri Lanka is coming up nov 19th-dec 5th, I will let you know.. Anthony Bourdain just did a CNN show on it.. but I’m not going anywhere he went =)

    You’re totally right about families traveling together. It just doesn’t look like fun (to me). But maybe I’m not seeing the inner-workings of everything that is happening, like the bonding etc that happens on a family vacation.. we actually didn’t have very many vacations when I was growing up, so it’s hard for me to tell what it’s like.

     

     

    #71863 Reply
    Avatar jessikaur 
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    Status: Physician
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    Joined: 11/01/2017
     I kind of like peace and quiet. As an OB/GYN it is better for you and your husband to be all in on the decision. Plenty of professional women seem happy without kids if that is your choice. In fact I see lots of intelligent women who want a child so bad that they get involved with totally inappropriate men. Only you and your husband can make this decision. If you want them get on it soon. Tick. Tock.

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    I totally agree! My husband and I made a pro-con list and on his con list he had “they’re loud” he is an introvert though, but I’m a complete extrovert and I’ve sat in silence at my computer all day “goofing” around on the internet.

    So, my sisters will both have kids, and I really think I could be a “fun” aunt, and enjoy all the fun things without any of the hard work or “drudgery” but they live in california… and I live here, I guess the trek out there is not that bad.

    That being said.. I have plenty of babies in my life right now, my best friend has a nightmare two year old (definitely very effective birth control) but she also has twins on the way! and my other male doctor friend is going to have a  baby with his wife soon (she’s 40), now maybe the clock is ticking, but I think I can wait for these new babies to show up to see how I feel about them since my sister’s baby was the first baby I felt anything “maternal” towards.. everyone else’s kids are cute, but annoying after a short period of time.

    “I think some women know from an early age that having children is important to them”.

    I have never wanted children… but then again, I never wanted to be married either, and that has been greatly rewarding (even with the annoyances and frustrations with a normal typical marriage)

    I’m going to try these “imagine your life exercises” that everyone has recommended and hope the clock doesn’t stop working before I’ve made my decision!

    #71864 Reply
    Liked by hatton1
    djohnflatfeecfp djohnflatfeecfp 
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    Joined: 09/14/2017
    I didn’t read the whole thing either, but does your husband want a kid? I have two teenage sons and will definitely miss them in a few years when they are off in college. I couldn’t imagine not having kids, but my wife and I wanted kids without hesitation. Fortunately, we waited until we were married a few years before we had our first. 

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    I am definitely going to do shorter posts from now on. Anyway, husband is ambivalent, we both want them and don’t want them for the same reasons. Of course, he left this decision completely in my court.. meaning if I don’t want to do it, he’s fine with that, and if I want to do it, he’s fine with that too. It kind of sucks, I wish someone else could make this decision for me because there are pluses and minuses to both sides.

    The dink life is nice.

     

    But for you, it’s now or never.

     

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    I know!! The time pressure is the worst. If I could just have another 15 years to decide I don’t even think I would be stressing this! Men are so lucky. They have forever.

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    I have a few male friends who wish they would have had kids younger.  They now lament they are the oldest dads at school events and they will be drawing Social Security when their kids are in college.

     

    Did the thought of kids come before or after the boat purchase?

    Accumulate Wealth, Not Fees - http://forwardthinkingwm.com/

    Daniel P. Johnson, CFP - [email protected]

    #71865 Reply
    Miss Bonnie MD Miss Bonnie MD 
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    Status: Physician
    Posts: 497
    Joined: 02/14/2017

    FWIW, we’ve promised to still travel (and without the baby – we are in the maintain and nurture the primary relationship vs. let kid take over our lives). We have planned our trips for 2018 and early 2019 already. We have incorporated weekly date nights/babysitting into the budget.

    We are lucky in that we have grandparents who are more than willing to temporarily kidnap the baby.

    "Being rich is having money; being wealthy is having time."

    Miss Bonnie MD --> Wealthy Mom MD @ http://wealthymommd.com

    #71866 Reply
    Liked by jessikaur
    Miss Bonnie MD Miss Bonnie MD 
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    Status: Physician
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    Joined: 02/14/2017

    I do agree not to wait too long at 36 – I got pregnant “naturally” at 39 and delivered at 40. But know plenty of women much younger than me that needed help.

    "Being rich is having money; being wealthy is having time."

    Miss Bonnie MD --> Wealthy Mom MD @ http://wealthymommd.com

    #71867 Reply
    Liked by jessikaur
    Avatar jhwkr542 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 1079
    Joined: 02/15/2016

    For my wife and I (both physicians, age 32, 3 kids under 5), the best thing I can say to you is that life is ridiculously different with and without kids.  It’s certainly a lot more chaotic at our house.  Little kids have extreme emotions.  They think stickers are the coolest invention ever but can have a complete meltdown if you don’t let them pick out their own spoon for dinner.  If you like travelling, then this becomes incredibly more difficult.  My wife and I take approximately 1-2 vacations a year (each less than a week), but we have both sets of grandparents close to watch them.  I can’t understate how important having family closeby and willing to watch your kids for a while is.

    #71868 Reply
    Avatar jessikaur 
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    Status: Physician
    Posts: 90
    Joined: 11/01/2017
    Why on earth?! Thats crazy, you didnt spring for the pool? I think you’re overall doing great, and its impossible to know what you woulda coulda shoulda. Its incredibly different with or without kids, you may want it in a few years, problem is the clock ofc. I’ve thought how easy and fun it would be without the kiddos, but then again you have those amazing moments all the time where you’re stupid lovestrucked over banal life and how you feel theyre the most adorable person in the world (they do become teenagers though). Both are great, just very different and no one here can decide or should sway that for you. You have to trust yourself and your relationship, goals, etc…and then take a leap.

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    It’s crazy.. but I find pools too restrictive! It’s like swimming in a fish bowl.. but just the thrill of knowing that I could taken down by a gator at any minute probably adds to the adrenaline rush… =)

     

    That being said, I have never seen a gator in my lake. I know they’re out there, but I can’t live my life in fear. Besides, once they get bigger than 5 feet is when the florida fish and wild life people come take them away, (that happens to be my height) so a gator that wants to wrangle with me has to be a lot bigger, and I’m hoping I’d spot it before I jump in…

    That being said, I have swum in the lake every day for five years with no issues except for these otters that are in there that want to play, and I’m actually more afraid of getting rabies from them than anything else.

    … I’m gonna go take that leap right now. Into the lake. It’s actually been cold here recently, so this should be rather refreshing!

    #71871 Reply
    Avatar jessikaur 
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    Status: Physician
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    Joined: 11/01/2017
    Did the thought of kids come before or after the boat purchase?

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    OK I can’t help but respond. I’m trying to get everything before the kids!!! We’ve got the house, the two fancy cars, yes I drive a tesla, and my husband has a ranger rover.. we are contributing to and destroying the environment all at once, and now the boat.

    I will be perfectly honest. The boat.. I bought it on a whim. We’ve lived on the lake for five years now, and I kept saying to myself that I didn’t want a boat because it was such a hassle and I looked around at my neighbors and for the majority of the time, all of their boats sit in the their docks.. and I knew my husband would not help me with the maintenance of it, so I’d have to pay some guy to come clean the boat, just like our cars, just like the house, just like doing all the yard work (yes I ferret out a LOT of money so I can have free time)

    Well we went to the boat show that was in the orlando convention center, and my salary has been really high this year due to all of the different jobs..and I said to my husband that I would get him a boat for our five year anniversary (july 4th, yes we got hitched on independence day) and somehow he convinced me that if we got it now (almost a full year early) we could have it for the Christmas boat parade… and I was sold!

    Anyway, the kids that has been an item for discussion for at least three years.. at first it was like (maybe someday) then it was, lets wait until after the MBA is done (april 2016), and then instead of giving myself a break, we decided to do a ridiculous house remodel that was my husband’s project, but he dropped the ball, and if I didn’t take control of it, it would still be going on for another five years, and that ended in June.. so I had about two months of high salary, that I spent replacing AC units.. and some left to spare, I know we’re supposed to invest it, but I thought, a boat will bring me more joy than retiring early at this point…

    So after the boat show, the guy brought the boat to our house for us to try it out, and in my mind i said if my husband can get up on one try on this new surf technology we should get this boat (because then surely, I’ll be able to surf too, since I can do anything he can do)

    Anyway, that was august. then IRMA hit.. (which REALLY sucked for us by the way) and then I went to see my sister’s baby for a week, then we went to Spain for a few weeks, and we got back in october.. and we’ve been going out every day after his job dragging each other around the lake like some crazy teenagers with no jobs.

    Then I quit one of my annoying jobs (on my birthday oct 12th) and then we went to Boston for a week.. and this is my first week back without all of my crazy jobs, so I’m just posting away on the internet while I figure out my next move(s) whether it be children or starting my own wellness clinic, in which i tack on financial advice … come for your health, stay for your wealth.

    Anyway, that was a long digression, to answer your question, I’ve been thinking about kids forever, just never had any compelling reason to pull the trigger, and now I feel like, we’ve traveled the world, fairly financially set, have all of the toys, and now I’ll have this “free” time to help me make the motherhood decision instead of all this work and school that I have been doing… and hopefully things will become clear?

     

    #71873 Reply
    childay childay 
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    Status: Physician
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    Joined: 01/09/2016
    Earnest refinancing bonus
    I have never wanted children

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    Get a dog?

    #71874 Reply
    Liked by adventure, RocDoc
    Phoenixdown99 Phoenixdown99 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
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    Joined: 03/20/2017

    Enjoy the scuba diving! Florida has great diving, especially the Keys. Make sure you get certified with a good group. The skills you learn may some day save your life or someone else’s life. I’m actually working part time as a divemaster for fun and to keep my skills sharp (I am also interested in somehow combining scuba/wilderness medicine and psychiatry at some point in my career). Feel free to message me if you have any questions or need recommendations!

    I am looking at this trip to Sri Lanka where you swim with blue whales. It is super expensive, but I love wildlife trips so I might splurge…

    Sorry to hear about your folks. I think that I will be a slightly anxious mom so I am not sure I could trust my kids with strangers before they are able to talk, but I think otherwise I think it would be ok. I didn’t have the nanny experience but my parents worked crazy hours as immigrants and my grandmother watched me and took me home from school. I always thought it would be useful to have nannies who can speak to kids in different languages and teach them, since that’s the best age to learn new languages.

    #71875 Reply
    Avatar jessikaur 
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    Status: Physician
    Posts: 90
    Joined: 11/01/2017
    Get a dog?

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    That’s so much worse. I know I definitely do NOT want a dog or any pets.

    The only living thing that has survived in our house is the mold that grows on the food in the fridge.

    My husband grew up with dogs, and always wants one, but I know who’s gonna get stuck with taking care of the thing, since he works crazy hours and my hours are flexible.

    #71876 Reply

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