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Car advice – new attending – what to buy?

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  •  Rutherford 
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    JK: given that the alternative is to buy a similar but newer and more expensive vehicle I would vote for buying out the lease on your cr-v. Owning two of the exactb same car is also an excellent opportunity to learn DIY maintenance and get more bang for your buck.

    #170743 Reply
     Matas 
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    Joined: 07/09/2017

    Can’t go wrong with Toyota. Get snow tires for the winter.

    Next question.

    #170800 Reply
    Liked by Peds
    MPMD MPMD 
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    This all makes sense for a new grad who has decided not to live like a resident and basically wants a new car.

    If you are committed to driving a late model car right out of residency I agree with you that leasing isn’t the end of the world.

    The issues of reliability and maintenance has been discussed endlessly on other threads but new care =/= no maint and used care =/= always at the shop. A Camry or an Accord with 100k miles on it is probably realistically going to be in the shop <1x/year which is just as often as you are going to have to be doing regular maintenance on a lease.

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    That is a generalization and inaccurate.  Look at monthly costs.  You can lease a new car for $150 – 200 /month with no money down.  It gets new car gas mileage.  It has new car safety.  It has brakes and tires that won’t need replacing.  Most new cars have first maintenance included.

    That’s a total cost of $7,200 over 3 years.  Show me a $25k used car that doesn’t depreciate by that amount.  Then you have to replace the brakes, tires, and any other little thing along the way.

    Also, we aren’t talking about 100k mile camrys.  That is a different discussion and not relevant to the OP.  Yes, you can save more money that way if that’s your thing.  I wouldn’t recommend anyone who doesn’t know squat about cars and doesn’t want to learn buy a 100k mile car.

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    i’m not sure that the kind of car you can lease for $150/mo is going to be a better deal than a $25k used car that you pay cash for.

    i think most new attendings who are going to lease a new vehicle are probably going to be spending more than $200/mo.

    #171142 Reply
    Dreamgiver Dreamgiver 
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    If you live around mountains make sure to test drive a CRV. Around mountain passes in my area you always see them in the right lane with the semis struggling to maintain 60 mph. Notorious for being significantly undepowered. Not an issue on flat land.

    #171167 Reply
    smartmoneymd smartmoneymd 
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    If you live around mountains make sure to test drive a CRV. Around mountain passes in my area you always see them in the right lane with the semis struggling to maintain 60 mph. Notorious for being significantly undepowered. Not an issue on flat land.

    Click to expand…

    The CRV’s, like many other compact SUV’s, have “Eco” mode. If you disable it, you might get more power. But the CRV is meant to be boring and gets really good gas mileage–have to trade off something!

    #171168 Reply
    Craigy Craigy 
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    This all makes sense for a new grad who has decided not to live like a resident and basically wants a new car.

    If you are committed to driving a late model car right out of residency I agree with you that leasing isn’t the end of the world.

    The issues of reliability and maintenance has been discussed endlessly on other threads but new care =/= no maint and used care =/= always at the shop. A Camry or an Accord with 100k miles on it is probably realistically going to be in the shop <1x/year which is just as often as you are going to have to be doing regular maintenance on a lease.

    Click to expand…

    That is a generalization and inaccurate.  Look at monthly costs.  You can lease a new car for $150 – 200 /month with no money down.  It gets new car gas mileage.  It has new car safety.  It has brakes and tires that won’t need replacing.  Most new cars have first maintenance included.

    That’s a total cost of $7,200 over 3 years.  Show me a $25k used car that doesn’t depreciate by that amount.  Then you have to replace the brakes, tires, and any other little thing along the way.

    Also, we aren’t talking about 100k mile camrys.  That is a different discussion and not relevant to the OP.  Yes, you can save more money that way if that’s your thing.  I wouldn’t recommend anyone who doesn’t know squat about cars and doesn’t want to learn buy a 100k mile car.

    Click to expand…

    i’m not sure that the kind of car you can lease for $150/mo is going to be a better deal than a $25k used car that you pay cash for.

    i think most new attendings who are going to lease a new vehicle are probably going to be spending more than $200/mo.

    Click to expand…

    $200 or even $300 a month should hardly be a big deal for a new attending, and is hardly an extravagant or irresponsible choice, even for someone who makes far less.

    As said above, that can be less than depreciation, maintenance and repairs on a decent used car.

    Just buying tires can easily be $800, $1,000.    Plus all of the other stuff you’ve got on a used car.  Timing belt, brake pads and rotors, fluids, battery, filters, you name it.  And that’s scheduled maintenance, not all the expensive stuff that can break and leave you stranded.

    On a lease you don’t touch any of that.  Most you’ll have to pay for is maybe an annual oil change, and with some cars that’s included too.

     

    If you live around mountains make sure to test drive a CRV. Around mountain passes in my area you always see them in the right lane with the semis struggling to maintain 60 mph. Notorious for being significantly undepowered. Not an issue on flat land.

    Click to expand…

    Definitely a concern for the old ones, but any CRV from the last decade or so shouldn’t have any trouble getting out of its own way.  Still, they’re called econoboxes for a reason.   😀

    LEVEL 1 WCI FORUM MEMBER.

    #171376 Reply
     Peds 
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    If you live around mountains make sure to test drive a CRV. Around mountain passes in my area you always see them in the right lane with the semis struggling to maintain 60 mph. Notorious for being significantly undepowered. Not an issue on flat land.

    Click to expand…

    um what?

    i can pass anybody in my moms 2018 CRV up or down the mountain…

    #171401 Reply
    Liked by Matas
    Dreamgiver Dreamgiver 
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    If you live around mountains make sure to test drive a CRV. Around mountain passes in my area you always see them in the right lane with the semis struggling to maintain 60 mph. Notorious for being significantly undepowered. Not an issue on flat land.

    Click to expand…

    um what?

    i can pass anybody in my moms 2018 CRV up or down the mountain…

    Click to expand…

    Maybe the people driving them are more concerned with the MPG gauge than the MPH one 😉   frustrating getting stuck behind them on a one-lane mountain road

    #171409 Reply
    Liked by Peds
     Kamban 
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    Look at monthly costs. You can lease a new car for $150 – 200 /month with no money down. It gets new car gas mileage. It has new car safety. It has brakes and tires that won’t need replacing. Most new cars have first maintenance included. That’s a total cost of $7,200 over 3 years. Show me a $25k used car that doesn’t depreciate by that amount. Then you have to replace the brakes, tires, and any other little thing along the way.

    Click to expand…

    You are comparing apples with oranges. I don’t know what you can get for $200 lease

    I looked at 2018 CRV-LX 36 month lease. Lease cost is $315 /month for 12000 miles / year. MSRP is 26550. You can bring the lease cost down and by the same amount I can bring the purchase price down from MSRP. So if we just go with advertised prices  we are paying $11340 for the car lease for 3 years. If we get the new car and use it for 3 years any major problems are covered by the 3 year warranty. Tires will last 40K miles and hence need not be replaced. Other than 3-4 oil changes no major expense is expected. If we had instead bought the car, the car’s worth (from MSRP) is $15210 at the end of 3 years. And that car will run well for another 7-8 years with only minor maintenance.

    There is no fiscal reason to lease a mid range Honda. Maybe it makes sense in leasing a Jaguar or a Porsche than buying them but then again they are not reliable cars and not what the OP desired. I would also not lease a subcompact tiny Korean import for $200/month since it would not be suitable for the OP’s needs.

    https://www.edmunds.com/honda/cr-v/2018/vin/2HKRW6H33JH229283/

    Another issue with leases are if you inadvertently have larger dings, bangs or scratches or you go over the $12K miles/year limit you will be charged heavily. No so with your own car.

     

    #171428 Reply
     LIFO 
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    I don’t know what you can get for $200 lease

     

     

    Click to expand…

    Then they obviously must not exist…

    #171542 Reply
    Liked by Craigy
     MSooner 
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    Curious–how far can you expect a (non-Tesla) electric car to go before battery life becomes an issue? I don’t have any first hand experience, but have friends who were complaining with just a 5-6 year old car.

    #171548 Reply
    Craigy Craigy 
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    Look at monthly costs. You can lease a new car for $150 – 200 /month with no money down. It gets new car gas mileage. It has new car safety. It has brakes and tires that won’t need replacing. Most new cars have first maintenance included. That’s a total cost of $7,200 over 3 years. Show me a $25k used car that doesn’t depreciate by that amount. Then you have to replace the brakes, tires, and any other little thing along the way.

    Click to expand…

    You are comparing apples with oranges. I don’t know what you can get for $200 lease

    I looked at 2018 CRV-LX 36 month lease. Lease cost is $315 /month for 12000 miles / year. MSRP is 26550. You can bring the lease cost down and by the same amount I can bring the purchase price down from MSRP. So if we just go with advertised prices  we are paying $11340 for the car lease for 3 years. If we get the new car and use it for 3 years any major problems are covered by the 3 year warranty. Tires will last 40K miles and hence need not be replaced. Other than 3-4 oil changes no major expense is expected. If we had instead bought the car, the car’s worth (from MSRP) is $15210 at the end of 3 years. And that car will run well for another 7-8 years with only minor maintenance.

    There is no fiscal reason to lease a mid range Honda. Maybe it makes sense in leasing a Jaguar or a Porsche than buying them but then again they are not reliable cars and not what the OP desired. I would also not lease a subcompact tiny Korean import for $200/month since it would not be suitable for the OP’s needs.

    https://www.edmunds.com/honda/cr-v/2018/vin/2HKRW6H33JH229283/

    Another issue with leases are if you inadvertently have larger dings, bangs or scratches or you go over the $12K miles/year limit you will be charged heavily. No so with your own car.

     

    Click to expand…

    Some of what you’re talking about seems to be in favor of the lease:  Your 3-year lease will all be under that 3 year factory warranty.  Other than oil changes, you’ll have no expenses (assuming you even have to pay for those).  But after that warranty period, that’s when maintenance items pop up (like tires you mentioned, plus a laundry list of other stuff) and you’re stuck paying for any repairs.

    And if we use your numbers as an example: with the lease you spend $11,340 in lease payments, vs losing $11,340 in depreciation.  At the end of the lease, you show up and sign up for the next lease deal, or simply turn it in and walk away.  At the end of the 3-year period with a purchase, there is no easy way out.  Good luck negotiating that trade-in value at the dealer, or listing it yourself and dealing with the public.  Of course you could keep the car you purchased, but at the same time, in a lease you can buy the car for the residual value.

    A few more points:

    It’s very easy to walk into a dealer and ask for the advertised lease special.  You need virtually zero bargaining skill and it takes no effort.  Having to haggle the price down is not nearly as easy and sometimes not possible.  https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/best-car-deals/honda-deals  $229/mo with $1,999 down on a new CRV.  Took me about 8 seconds of effort.

    If you bang up your purchased car, you have lost value, and will realize that when it comes time to trade or sell.

    In most states you’re likely paying sales tax on the whole car in a purchase vs only paying tax on the lease payments.

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    #171600 Reply
    Liked by Kamban
     Peds 
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    Curious–how far can you expect a (non-Tesla) electric car to go before battery life becomes an issue? I don’t have any first hand experience, but have friends who were complaining with just a 5-6 year old car.

    Click to expand…

    complaining about what exactly?

    #171603 Reply
     Kamban 
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    Some of what you’re talking about seems to be in favor of the lease: Your 3-year lease will all be under that 3 year factory warranty. Other than oil changes, you’ll have no expenses (assuming you even have to pay for those). But after that warranty period, that’s when maintenance items pop up (like tires you mentioned, plus a laundry list of other stuff) and you’re stuck paying for any repairs. And if we use your numbers as an example: with the lease you spend $11,340 in lease payments, vs losing $11,340 in depreciation. At the end of the lease, you show up and sign up for the next lease deal, or simply turn it in and walk away. At the end of the 3-year period with a purchase, there is no easy way out. Good luck negotiating that trade-in value at the dealer, or listing it yourself and dealing with the public. Of course you could keep the car you purchased, but at the same time, in a lease you can buy the car for the residual value. A few more points: It’s very easy to walk into a dealer and ask for the advertised lease special. You need virtually zero bargaining skill and it takes no effort. Having to haggle the price down is not nearly as easy and sometimes not possible. https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/best-car-deals/honda-deals $229/mo with $1,999 down on a new CRV. Took me about 8 seconds of effort. If you bang up your purchased car, you have lost value, and will realize that when it comes time to trade or sell. In most states you’re likely paying sales tax on the whole car in a purchase vs only paying tax on the lease payments.

    Click to expand…

    When did a 3 year Honda or Toyota that you have driven carefully after 3 years start suddenly having problems. The major ones are covered by a 60-100K power train warranty. Tires in Costco after the usual $70 rebate come to under 550 and last for 60K+ miles.

    You have to come up with yet another $11.5K at the end of 3 years for 3 more years of having a vehicle, whereas with a $15K value you have a car that is all yours ( much better than the end of lease purchase price). As much as you can find a great lease deal I can find a great non MSRP price and drive that down even further with specials and rebates. That is why I used apples to apples comparison.

    If you drive a dented car for 7 years non cares except you. But try turning in the dented car or banged up car after 3 year lease and see the exorbitant amount they will charge you to fix it.  Or taking a great road trip in your own car, racking up the miles with no care in the world ( like we have done in summer with trips into Canada). Do that with he leased car and you will have a lighter wallet at the end of the lease.

    Ultimately it comes to if you like to rent or like to own.

    .

     

    #171615 Reply
    Craigy Craigy 
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    Some of what you’re talking about seems to be in favor of the lease: Your 3-year lease will all be under that 3 year factory warranty. Other than oil changes, you’ll have no expenses (assuming you even have to pay for those). But after that warranty period, that’s when maintenance items pop up (like tires you mentioned, plus a laundry list of other stuff) and you’re stuck paying for any repairs. And if we use your numbers as an example: with the lease you spend $11,340 in lease payments, vs losing $11,340 in depreciation. At the end of the lease, you show up and sign up for the next lease deal, or simply turn it in and walk away. At the end of the 3-year period with a purchase, there is no easy way out. Good luck negotiating that trade-in value at the dealer, or listing it yourself and dealing with the public. Of course you could keep the car you purchased, but at the same time, in a lease you can buy the car for the residual value. A few more points: It’s very easy to walk into a dealer and ask for the advertised lease special. You need virtually zero bargaining skill and it takes no effort. Having to haggle the price down is not nearly as easy and sometimes not possible. https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/best-car-deals/honda-deals $229/mo with $1,999 down on a new CRV. Took me about 8 seconds of effort. If you bang up your purchased car, you have lost value, and will realize that when it comes time to trade or sell. In most states you’re likely paying sales tax on the whole car in a purchase vs only paying tax on the lease payments. 

    Click to expand…

    When did a 3 year Honda or Toyota that you have driven carefully after 3 years start suddenly having problems. The major ones are covered by a 60-100K power train warranty. Tires in Costco after the usual $70 rebate come to under 550 and last for 60K+ miles.

    You have to come up with yet another $11.5K at the end of 3 years for 3 more years of having a vehicle, whereas with a $15K value you have a car that is all yours ( much better than the end of lease purchase price). As much as you can find a great lease deal I can find a great non MSRP price and drive that down even further with specials and rebates. That is why I used apples to apples comparison.

    If you drive a dented car for 7 years non cares except you. But try turning in the dented car or banged up car after 3 year lease and see the exorbitant amount they will charge you to fix it.  Or taking a great road trip in your own car, racking up the miles with no care in the world ( like we have done in summer with trips into Canada). Do that with he leased car and you will have a lighter wallet at the end of the lease.

    Ultimately it comes to if you like to rent or like to own.

    Click to expand…

    Just for the sake of argument:   😀

    First, not everyone buys a Honda or Toyota.  But I’ve heard of many Hondas with transmission problems, for example.  Rare to hear about a 3 year old Toyota with problems.

    Tire cost is going to vary greatly car to car and merchant to merchant.  You’re being frugal here and going to costco (like I would).  A lot of folks (time crunched docs) are going to stop at the closest tire store or dealer and get hosed on whatever the salesman/service advisor sells them.

    Keep in mind in your price example (buy car for $26,550 vs lease for 3 years for $11,340, which in either case is worth $15,210 at the end of 3 years), the lessor has only come out of pocket $11,340, whereas the purchaser has had to shell out $26,550.  Of course that $15k value car is all yours, you paid $15,210 extra for it.  😉  Think of all the WCIers on here agonizing over where to park their $10k emergency fund, or how to make their $5,500 backdoor roth contribution.  Suddenly parking all that cash in a depreciating asset looks less appealing.

    Also for what it’s worth, the residual buyout amount is sort of a coin toss since it’s set ahead of time.  If you get to the three years and the car is worth more than the residual, it’s makes sense to buy, but if the car has depreciated more than the residual predicted, it makes sense to walk away.

    I would disagree that it is as easy to negotiate a great sales price as it is to find and obtain a great advertised lease deal.  One is hours/days of back and forth haggling, one is walking in the door and saying I want the deal that Honda Finance is advertising.

    Yeah I have to agree, that’s one great feature I enjoy on my 2011 lexus, not giving a damn what happens to it in the parking lot, or if I curb a wheel or whatever.  And the mileage issue would bug the hell out of me if I had a lease.  We also like to go on road trips, which would be a lot less appealing if I was facing some 40c/mile penalty.

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    #171625 Reply
    Liked by Doc Spouse

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