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  • Zaphod Zaphod 
    Participant
    Status: Physician, Small Business Owner
    Posts: 5900
    Joined: 01/12/2016

    I wouldnt suggest anyone get a micro 4/3, I think its being discontinued and unsupported going forward.

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    Olympus and Panasonic are still committed to supporting micro 4/3s for at least the immediate future, and micro 4/3s has by far the most complete lineup of lenses (mostly high quality) of any of the mirrorless setups.  But in the very long term it’s hard to know which of the many mirrorless systems will survive.  They are all “buy at your own risk” systems.

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    It cant be that hard right? And they all say that, or frankly lie. It really makes no sense logically. With mirrorless becoming the go to, its going to be full frame and APS-C. With full frames like the sony’s you have an option to crop it if you like. Sensors used to be a part of the costs of cameras but it doesnt make much of a difference now.

    Some companies are likely just getting out of cameras altogether, I’d avoid those just logistically.

    Also, the obvious, there is no comparison to big sensor and big lenses in picture quality. Gives you range. Lens more important. You can then crop your picture without losing quality. Now it just gives you utility. I wouldnt mind a full frame option, I’d probably still use aps-c most of the time. But itd be nice to have the option when the situation clearly calls for it.

    Also, no non brand new m43 have phase detect autofocus, and while new ones can, none of the lenses have the required motors to utilize it, and thats huge.

    Ah, I found the video that probably informed my thinking. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjXSnNMZ0PU

    Obviously he could be wrong but the reasoning is solid, remember that the real camera sector of the economy is shrinking.

    #228519 Reply
    Liked by q-school
    Avatar Kamban 
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    Status: Physician
    Posts: 2331
    Joined: 08/01/2016

    I’m looking between Fujifilm X-T3 and Nikon Z6, cost lumped into overall vacation budget. Still going back and forth if worth it.

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    I have been a long time Nikon user and a Nikon fan. Only for dslr.

    And I will be the first to admit that their mirrorless offerings sucks. They are late to the market in order to not have it cut into their juicy SLR sales ( whey did they not take a lesson from Kodak’s history of digital and film is mystifying). Same with Canon. And this gave a long lead time for Sony to develop the mirrorless system. They now have the best full frame bodies and have developed a nice set of lenses, both on their own and with Zeiss. If I were to go with a future mirrorlss set up that I know will not fold up in a few years, I would go with Sony’s mirrorless bodies and lenses. Not Olympus or Nikon or even Canon.

    #228528 Reply
    Liked by Zaphod
    Avatar mjohnson 
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    Status: Physician
    Posts: 14
    Joined: 05/05/2019

    I’m curious why you say Canon and Nikon mirrorless cameras suck? Reviews are fairly solid, although lens selection is a clear negative, but that should improve quickly.

    #228536 Reply
    Avatar bobedwards 
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    Status: Physician
    Posts: 10
    Joined: 02/08/2019

    I’m dated, but I like to save money. I carry an iPhone in my pocket, but while traveling (India, Germany, Italy, Greece, Costa Rica..) I carry an old Nikon D90 (11 years old, but still great shots for prints/email/albums) with a shoulder/chest strap. The camera hangs to my right side/hip area. Easy access as its ready to go within 1-2 seconds.  I carry an 18-200 mm lens attached, which is very versatile for most shots. Its an old camera, but I know the features and limitations and its always ready- key features to capturing the the shot. For what it’s worth, I’m sure mirrorless is great. My old school camera still has a lot of shutter actuations left, has a great battery life (Nikon battery and spares) and the lenses are great (Nikon glass that holds up to time).  Composition and camera in hand still matter. I like to spend money on getting me there, I can handle getting a great shot with old equipment.

    #228570 Reply
    Liked by Kamban, Zaphod
    fatlittlepig fatlittlepig 
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    Status: Physician
    Posts: 874
    Joined: 01/26/2017

    I’m dated, but I like to save money. I carry an iPhone in my pocket, but while traveling (India, Germany, Italy, Greece, Costa Rica..) I carry an old Nikon D90 (11 years old, but still great shots for prints/email/albums) with a shoulder/chest strap. The camera hangs to my right side/hip area. Easy access as its ready to go within 1-2 seconds.  I carry an 18-200 mm lens attached, which is very versatile for most shots. Its an old camera, but I know the features and limitations and its always ready- key features to capturing the the shot. For what it’s worth, I’m sure mirrorless is great. My old school camera still has a lot of shutter actuations left, has a great battery life (Nikon battery and spares) and the lenses are great (Nikon glass that holds up to time).  Composition and camera in hand still matter. I like to spend money on getting me there, I can handle getting a great shot with old equipment.

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    D90 is a great camera. Despite the size, It’s hard to beat a DSLR in terms of ergonomics and framing when taking the photo.

    #228580 Reply
    Zaphod Zaphod 
    Participant
    Status: Physician, Small Business Owner
    Posts: 5900
    Joined: 01/12/2016

    I’m curious why you say Canon and Nikon mirrorless cameras suck? Reviews are fairly solid, although lens selection is a clear negative, but that should improve quickly.

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    They are just way behind the clear leader Sony, and niche cheaper but great Fuji mirror less leaders. Im sure theyll catch up, but theyre clearly behind.

    Composition and camera in hand still matter. I like to spend money on getting me there, I can handle getting a great shot with old equipment.

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    If the old equipment is/was quality, it doesnt really matter too much. My cousin is a photographer and his main cameras are pretty dated dslrs. He still gets great shots.

    #228583 Reply
    Liked by artemis, Kamban
    Avatar artemis 
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    Status: Physician
    Posts: 534
    Joined: 12/02/2016

    It cant be that hard right? And they all say that, or frankly lie. It really makes no sense logically. With mirrorless becoming the go to, its going to be full frame and APS-C.

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    I don’t understand the obsession with full frame, frankly, when it comes to mirrorless systems.  To me the primary benefit of going mirrorless is to get a much smaller camera/lens combo that is still way more capable than a cell phone camera or a P&S.  Going with a full frame sensor (or even an APS-C sensor) defeats that, because the resulting lenses are far too large and heavy, and thus the system as a whole offers few advantages over a conventional DSLR setup.

    If the old equipment is/was quality, it doesnt really matter too much. My cousin is a photographer and his main cameras are pretty dated dslrs. He still gets great shots.

    I think that’s the key to happiness with digital cameras in general (not just mirrorless systems).  Get something you like, shoot the heck out of it, and when it dies then take a look around and see if it’s time to switch systems.  The old film SLR thinking (once you buy into a system you’re in it forever, because lenses are investments) just doesn’t work well any more.

     

    #228651 Reply
    Neuro Neuro 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 56
    Joined: 01/08/2016

    I disagree. Have you used them? I have used the Nikon Z6. Its an amazing offering for the first iteration. Don’t get hung up on online reviews. I own a d850 and I would seriously consider moving to Z mirrorless if I had to for my next camera. One has to change the mindset when ones moves to mirrorless – whether its sony, fuji or canonikon.

    One more thing – when you add in lenses, the mirrorless cameras start getting heavy.

    #228657 Reply
    Zaphod Zaphod 
    Participant
    Status: Physician, Small Business Owner
    Posts: 5900
    Joined: 01/12/2016

    I disagree. Have you used them? I have used the Nikon Z6. Its an amazing offering for the first iteration. Don’t get hung up on online reviews. I own a d850 and I would seriously consider moving to Z mirrorless if I had to for my next camera. One has to change the mindset when ones moves to mirrorless – whether its sony, fuji or canonikon.

    One more thing – when you add in lenses, the mirrorless cameras start getting heavy.

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    Theyre just mostly far behind the competition, Im sure theyll catch up as they are just late to the game. Few native lenses without an adapter, though if you have a bunch of F mount lenses already, thats a totally different story would be very worthwhile (remember they dont all autofocus).

    Agree about the lens thing, I never understood the weight argument really, but I’ve no need for a mirror, Im not looking through the viewfinder.

    Doesnt have 2 card slots is a game breaker for me though, and other reviews just say an 850 is cheaper and overall better.

    Also, camera snobs as we are are all pretty brand specific for really few good reasons, the real reason is whatever brand you happen to have the most sunk cost in.

    #228812 Reply
    Avatar artemis 
    Participant
    Status: Physician
    Posts: 534
    Joined: 12/02/2016

    Agree about the lens thing, I never understood the weight argument really, but I’ve no need for a mirror, Im not looking through the viewfinder.

    Doesnt have 2 card slots is a game breaker for me though, and other reviews just say an 850 is cheaper and overall better.

    Also, camera snobs as we are are all pretty brand specific for really few good reasons, the real reason is whatever brand you happen to have the most sunk cost in.

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    My reason for favoring the micro 4/3s system is the small size of most of the camera bodies, the light weight of the lenses, and the overall ergonomics of the Olympus camera bodies.  I have small hands, which the EM-5 fits perfectly, and I find heavy cameras a literal pain in the neck.  My neck just can’t tolerate much pressure on it.  The heavier DSLRs I used to use caused me problems, but with the micro 4/3s system I am pain-free.

    Everyone has different needs, which is why I always encourage beginners to try to find a camera store so they can actually pick up and hold the various models before they buy one.  It’s wonderful when you find the camera that just fits you like a glove!

    #228906 Reply

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