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  • #76
    So is the BMW 700 series , Mercedes s, Lexus LS. Sales now reflect Tesla owning 1/3 of all us sales in this segment.

    Let's see how the more affordable model 3 does against the BMW 3 series.

    More docs than not drive a luxury SUV or sedan. Not considering the Tesla would be a miss.

    Comment


    • #77


      Its super cheap.
      Click to expand...


      still lol
      Financial planning, investment management and CPA services for medical professionals | 270-247-6087

      Comment


      • #78





        Its super cheap. 
        Click to expand…


        still lol
        Click to expand...


        You don't think gas is cheap right now?

        Comment


        • #79








          Its super cheap.
          Click to expand…


          still lol
          Click to expand…


          You don’t think gas is cheap right now?
          Click to expand...


          Of course, I do. Zaphod's comment to RadMD hit my funny bone just right.
          Financial planning, investment management and CPA services for medical professionals | 270-247-6087

          Comment


          • #80
            Even with the current "super cheap" gas prices, electric cars are still far cheaper to fuel than gasoline.  My i3 gets around 4.2 - 4.5 mi/kw (I like driving it very conservatively) and when I compare that to my wife's Honda fit that gets 36 mpg its still about 50-60% cheaper to fuel (assuming $2.39 per gallon, which is the cheapest I've been seeing around here lately, usually its more than that though).  Our electricity costs us about 12.9 cents/kw after taxes and distribution fees, so of course if we lived in Cali or Hawaii where electric is a lot more expensive, that savings would be less.  And with a less fuel efficient ICE the difference would be a lot bigger.  The Fit is insanely good with gas mileage, so I'm demonstrating this to show that even with super cheap gas and a super fuel efficient car, the electric car still wins.  Plus, even here in the Midwest, its pretty easy to find free charging stations.  I am at work right now and my car is charging in the parking lot for free.  I think that's pretty cool.  All the years I drove an ICE I never got a free tank of gas.

            Comment


            • #81




              Even with the current “super cheap” gas prices, electric cars are still far cheaper to fuel than gasoline.  My i3 gets around 4.2 – 4.5 mi/kw (I like driving it very conservatively) and when I compare that to my wife’s Honda fit that gets 36 mpg its still about 50-60% cheaper to fuel (assuming $2.39 per gallon, which is the cheapest I’ve been seeing around here lately, usually its more than that though).  Our electricity costs us about 12.9 cents/kw after taxes and distribution fees, so of course if we lived in Cali or Hawaii where electric is a lot more expensive, that savings would be less.  And with a less fuel efficient ICE the difference would be a lot bigger.  The Fit is insanely good with gas mileage, so I’m demonstrating this to show that even with super cheap gas and a super fuel efficient car, the electric car still wins.  Plus, even here in the Midwest, its pretty easy to find free charging stations.  I am at work right now and my car is charging in the parking lot for free.  I think that’s pretty cool.  All the years I drove an ICE I never got a free tank of gas.
              Click to expand...


              And did you ever hit the brakes in your ICE car and gasoline went back into your gas tank?

              (regenerative braking FTW)

              Jokes aside, my electricity costs to fill up my car are much less than even my Toyota Prius.  "Super cheap" gas is still more expensive than electricity to fill the car (yes I realize a Tesla is expensive overall, but just speaking to that point specifically, especially when compared to similarly priced ICE cars).

               

              Comment


              • #82







                Even with the current “super cheap” gas prices, electric cars are still far cheaper to fuel than gasoline.  My i3 gets around 4.2 – 4.5 mi/kw (I like driving it very conservatively) and when I compare that to my wife’s Honda fit that gets 36 mpg its still about 50-60% cheaper to fuel (assuming $2.39 per gallon, which is the cheapest I’ve been seeing around here lately, usually its more than that though).  Our electricity costs us about 12.9 cents/kw after taxes and distribution fees, so of course if we lived in Cali or Hawaii where electric is a lot more expensive, that savings would be less.  And with a less fuel efficient ICE the difference would be a lot bigger.  The Fit is insanely good with gas mileage, so I’m demonstrating this to show that even with super cheap gas and a super fuel efficient car, the electric car still wins.  Plus, even here in the Midwest, its pretty easy to find free charging stations.  I am at work right now and my car is charging in the parking lot for free.  I think that’s pretty cool.  All the years I drove an ICE I never got a free tank of gas.
                Click to expand…


                And did you ever hit the brakes in your ICE car and gasoline went back into your gas tank? ?

                (regenerative braking FTW)

                Jokes aside, my electricity costs to fill up my car are much less than even my Toyota Prius.  “Super cheap” gas is still more expensive than electricity to fill the car (yes I realize a Tesla is expensive overall, but just speaking to that point specifically, especially when compared to similarly priced ICE cars).

                 
                Click to expand...


                It depends where you live. However, its a dumb argument to compare costs, as that is certainly not why one buys a tesla. If you wanted to be frugal you'd get a used prius or a volt or something. A tesla is not an economic choice. The cost may be less to fill up than your prius, but after you back out the premium paid for the vehicle, it isnt any more. Again, doesnt matter as a Tesla is a status symbol.

                Did they ever make the stereo system better, the one I had was terrible. Unacceptable, as are several of the accommodations for a 100k plus car. My Lexus is far better accommodated.

                Comment


                • #83










                  Even with the current “super cheap” gas prices, electric cars are still far cheaper to fuel than gasoline.  My i3 gets around 4.2 – 4.5 mi/kw (I like driving it very conservatively) and when I compare that to my wife’s Honda fit that gets 36 mpg its still about 50-60% cheaper to fuel (assuming $2.39 per gallon, which is the cheapest I’ve been seeing around here lately, usually its more than that though).  Our electricity costs us about 12.9 cents/kw after taxes and distribution fees, so of course if we lived in Cali or Hawaii where electric is a lot more expensive, that savings would be less.  And with a less fuel efficient ICE the difference would be a lot bigger.  The Fit is insanely good with gas mileage, so I’m demonstrating this to show that even with super cheap gas and a super fuel efficient car, the electric car still wins.  Plus, even here in the Midwest, its pretty easy to find free charging stations.  I am at work right now and my car is charging in the parking lot for free.  I think that’s pretty cool.  All the years I drove an ICE I never got a free tank of gas.
                  Click to expand…


                  And did you ever hit the brakes in your ICE car and gasoline went back into your gas tank? ?

                  (regenerative braking FTW)

                  Jokes aside, my electricity costs to fill up my car are much less than even my Toyota Prius.  “Super cheap” gas is still more expensive than electricity to fill the car (yes I realize a Tesla is expensive overall, but just speaking to that point specifically, especially when compared to similarly priced ICE cars).

                   
                  Click to expand…


                  It depends where you live. However, its a dumb argument to compare costs, as that is certainly not why one buys a tesla. If you wanted to be frugal you’d get a used prius or a volt or something. A tesla is not an economic choice. The cost may be less to fill up than your prius, but after you back out the premium paid for the vehicle, it isnt any more. Again, doesnt matter as a Tesla is a status symbol.

                  Did they ever make the stereo system better, the one I had was terrible. Unacceptable, as are several of the accommodations for a 100k plus car. My Lexus is far better accommodated.
                  Click to expand...


                  I stand corrected, your Lexus is super cheap

                  Comment


                  • #84













                    Even with the current “super cheap” gas prices, electric cars are still far cheaper to fuel than gasoline.  My i3 gets around 4.2 – 4.5 mi/kw (I like driving it very conservatively) and when I compare that to my wife’s Honda fit that gets 36 mpg its still about 50-60% cheaper to fuel (assuming $2.39 per gallon, which is the cheapest I’ve been seeing around here lately, usually its more than that though).  Our electricity costs us about 12.9 cents/kw after taxes and distribution fees, so of course if we lived in Cali or Hawaii where electric is a lot more expensive, that savings would be less.  And with a less fuel efficient ICE the difference would be a lot bigger.  The Fit is insanely good with gas mileage, so I’m demonstrating this to show that even with super cheap gas and a super fuel efficient car, the electric car still wins.  Plus, even here in the Midwest, its pretty easy to find free charging stations.  I am at work right now and my car is charging in the parking lot for free.  I think that’s pretty cool.  All the years I drove an ICE I never got a free tank of gas.
                    Click to expand…


                    And did you ever hit the brakes in your ICE car and gasoline went back into your gas tank? ?

                    (regenerative braking FTW)

                    Jokes aside, my electricity costs to fill up my car are much less than even my Toyota Prius.  “Super cheap” gas is still more expensive than electricity to fill the car (yes I realize a Tesla is expensive overall, but just speaking to that point specifically, especially when compared to similarly priced ICE cars).

                     
                    Click to expand…


                    It depends where you live. However, its a dumb argument to compare costs, as that is certainly not why one buys a tesla. If you wanted to be frugal you’d get a used prius or a volt or something. A tesla is not an economic choice. The cost may be less to fill up than your prius, but after you back out the premium paid for the vehicle, it isnt any more. Again, doesnt matter as a Tesla is a status symbol.

                    Did they ever make the stereo system better, the one I had was terrible. Unacceptable, as are several of the accommodations for a 100k plus car. My Lexus is far better accommodated.
                    Click to expand…


                    I stand corrected, your Lexus is super cheap ?
                    Click to expand...


                    Dont recall saying it was, and do recall mentioning costs is dumb when talking about a car like Tesla. It is less than half and far better appointed. We're not in the low range of vehicles, its as @startrekdoc says, this is a different cohort of cars to consider. People dont go out and compare corollas to teslas.

                    If you're in the tesla range, you're going to be looking at lexus, mercedes, bmw, maserati, etc...Luxury, status type vehicles.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Compare Apples:Apples for any EV car to their counterpart ICE (Internal Combustion Engine) car and the prices are comparable if not even better.

                      Zaphod -- for those in the Central Valley of California, you can drive a Fiat 500e FOR FREE for three years.  I don't think you can get much cheaper than free

                      Across all car segments, the cost of EV is quite comparable, and you save significant costs $1200 yearly alone.

                      The premium sound system of Tesla S is quite good.  The performance specs of it is second to none and the direct out of pocket aquisition costs to say your Lexus (LS if it is that) are same.  There's a reason why Tesla is dominating the luxury sedan segment in such a short time.

                      Since I like cars, but not spending 70K+ on one, I'm really looking forward to the Tesla 3 to replace our aging Infiniti G37 if has the performance to match it.  That's our 'fun' car vs the other utilitarian vehicles that we have.

                      In San Diego with probably the highest kwh rates in the nation:  still dirt cheap to charge compared to gas.  Gas would have to get to $1.50/gallon to compete against electric.

                       

                      Edit:  So Tesla does actually do quite well and against it's current competition and priced accordingly.

                      The real survival of Tesla for profitability is the Model 3 -- if it can deliver en masse a high volume production mid-range luxury sedan that will beat the BMW 3 series and all the wanna be competitors.

                       

                      Comment


                      • #86
















                        Even with the current “super cheap” gas prices, electric cars are still far cheaper to fuel than gasoline.  My i3 gets around 4.2 – 4.5 mi/kw (I like driving it very conservatively) and when I compare that to my wife’s Honda fit that gets 36 mpg its still about 50-60% cheaper to fuel (assuming $2.39 per gallon, which is the cheapest I’ve been seeing around here lately, usually its more than that though).  Our electricity costs us about 12.9 cents/kw after taxes and distribution fees, so of course if we lived in Cali or Hawaii where electric is a lot more expensive, that savings would be less.  And with a less fuel efficient ICE the difference would be a lot bigger.  The Fit is insanely good with gas mileage, so I’m demonstrating this to show that even with super cheap gas and a super fuel efficient car, the electric car still wins.  Plus, even here in the Midwest, its pretty easy to find free charging stations.  I am at work right now and my car is charging in the parking lot for free.  I think that’s pretty cool.  All the years I drove an ICE I never got a free tank of gas.
                        Click to expand…


                        And did you ever hit the brakes in your ICE car and gasoline went back into your gas tank? ?

                        (regenerative braking FTW)

                        Jokes aside, my electricity costs to fill up my car are much less than even my Toyota Prius.  “Super cheap” gas is still more expensive than electricity to fill the car (yes I realize a Tesla is expensive overall, but just speaking to that point specifically, especially when compared to similarly priced ICE cars).

                         
                        Click to expand…


                        It depends where you live. However, its a dumb argument to compare costs, as that is certainly not why one buys a tesla. If you wanted to be frugal you’d get a used prius or a volt or something. A tesla is not an economic choice. The cost may be less to fill up than your prius, but after you back out the premium paid for the vehicle, it isnt any more. Again, doesnt matter as a Tesla is a status symbol.

                        Did they ever make the stereo system better, the one I had was terrible. Unacceptable, as are several of the accommodations for a 100k plus car. My Lexus is far better accommodated.
                        Click to expand…


                        I stand corrected, your Lexus is super cheap ?
                        Click to expand…


                        Dont recall saying it was, and do recall mentioning costs is dumb when talking about a car like Tesla. It is less than half and far better appointed. We’re not in the low range of vehicles, its as @startrekdoc says, this is a different cohort of cars to consider. People dont go out and compare corollas to teslas.

                        If you’re in the tesla range, you’re going to be looking at lexus, mercedes, bmw, maserati, etc…Luxury, status type vehicles.
                        Click to expand...


                        I know this is a financial forum but you gotta lighten up, I was just kidding.  As @startrekdoc says, when you compare an EV to a comparably priced ICE car, the cost of ownership is much less.  Not all Teslas cost 100K+ (a common misconception) especially when the Model 3 comes out this Summer.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Yeah the new pricing on the model s is like 69k I believe for the base 75 model.  After federal and state tax incentives you're looking at a 59k car.  That's not that crazy considering many people spend more than that on a giant pick up truck or SUV.

                          But, I agree, Tesla's ongoing success is going to depend on it being able to fulfill its promise on the Model 3.  35k base model when you factor in tax incentives is a very normal priced car for most americans (25k after incentives in many states).  And when you look at the cost of ownership and cost of fuel, its going to be a hard car to ignore for a lot of people.

                          I'm also very interested to see how the Bolt does.

                          On another note, I don't think most people are really aware of the existence of electric cars yet nor do they understand their benefits.  When people start to catch on to the idea that 1. electric cars exist 2. They are fueled by very cheap electricity and 3. often times its possible to find free "fuel".... that's when electric cars are going to become the norm.
                          I'm always amazed when I pull up somewhere and see a sign that says "complimentary electric vehicle charging" and no one is plugged in (happened to me the other day when I went to get beer at a local brewery).  If there were a sign that said "complimentary gasoline" there would be a line of cars 10 miles long waiting to get free gas.  People haven't caught on to the benefits yet.  That's why I wanted to be an early adopter of the technology.  I want to spread the word.

                           

                          Comment


                          • #88



















                            Even with the current “super cheap” gas prices, electric cars are still far cheaper to fuel than gasoline.  My i3 gets around 4.2 – 4.5 mi/kw (I like driving it very conservatively) and when I compare that to my wife’s Honda fit that gets 36 mpg its still about 50-60% cheaper to fuel (assuming $2.39 per gallon, which is the cheapest I’ve been seeing around here lately, usually its more than that though).  Our electricity costs us about 12.9 cents/kw after taxes and distribution fees, so of course if we lived in Cali or Hawaii where electric is a lot more expensive, that savings would be less.  And with a less fuel efficient ICE the difference would be a lot bigger.  The Fit is insanely good with gas mileage, so I’m demonstrating this to show that even with super cheap gas and a super fuel efficient car, the electric car still wins.  Plus, even here in the Midwest, its pretty easy to find free charging stations.  I am at work right now and my car is charging in the parking lot for free.  I think that’s pretty cool.  All the years I drove an ICE I never got a free tank of gas.
                            Click to expand…


                            And did you ever hit the brakes in your ICE car and gasoline went back into your gas tank? ?

                            (regenerative braking FTW)

                            Jokes aside, my electricity costs to fill up my car are much less than even my Toyota Prius.  “Super cheap” gas is still more expensive than electricity to fill the car (yes I realize a Tesla is expensive overall, but just speaking to that point specifically, especially when compared to similarly priced ICE cars).

                             
                            Click to expand…


                            It depends where you live. However, its a dumb argument to compare costs, as that is certainly not why one buys a tesla. If you wanted to be frugal you’d get a used prius or a volt or something. A tesla is not an economic choice. The cost may be less to fill up than your prius, but after you back out the premium paid for the vehicle, it isnt any more. Again, doesnt matter as a Tesla is a status symbol.

                            Did they ever make the stereo system better, the one I had was terrible. Unacceptable, as are several of the accommodations for a 100k plus car. My Lexus is far better accommodated.
                            Click to expand…


                            I stand corrected, your Lexus is super cheap ?
                            Click to expand…


                            Dont recall saying it was, and do recall mentioning costs is dumb when talking about a car like Tesla. It is less than half and far better appointed. We’re not in the low range of vehicles, its as @startrekdoc says, this is a different cohort of cars to consider. People dont go out and compare corollas to teslas.

                            If you’re in the tesla range, you’re going to be looking at lexus, mercedes, bmw, maserati, etc…Luxury, status type vehicles.
                            Click to expand…


                            I know this is a financial forum but you gotta lighten up, I was just kidding.  As @startrekdoc says, when you compare an EV to a comparably priced ICE car, the cost of ownership is much less.  Not all Teslas cost 100K+ (a common misconception) especially when the Model 3 comes out this Summer.
                            Click to expand...


                            You're taking it/me the wrong way. I dont care that you want to spend 100k on a car, thats fine. I have had to talk myself down from buying a nice fun car a couple of times already. Ive taken high performance driving courses in fast sports cars, I enjoy and understand it. I have nearly purchased, have rented, and spent time driving a model S in the past. I dont know what version my rental was but the sound system was atrocious. Theres no debate that they arent appointed as nicely as comparable cars, but everything is a trade off. They are certainly faster and more fun than most.

                            My only objection was improper comparisons. We cant compare a civic and a tesla, its just ridiculous, as you're buying for different reasons. The proper comparison would have been entry level. Thats not why you get a tesla. You get a tesla because its cool, fun, and fast. Those are all valid reasons. I dont think one has to or should defend such a decision. Its your money.

                            I mean Im not gonna drive a Leaf or that 500e, no way. I am just unapologetic and think you should be too. Nothing wrong with a model S or an i8 preferably because theyre sexy. I hope that porsche mission e is real and a good option as well. No need to justify with flawed cost comparisons or green cred. If I wanted to be super green I'd empty the pool and ride my bike to work.

                            Comment


                            • #89




                              Zaphod — for those in the Central Valley of California, you can drive a Fiat 500e FOR FREE for three years.  I don’t think you can get much cheaper than free
                              Click to expand...


                              You would have a hard time paying me to drive that thing. I dont like little cars for physics reasons.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                You have to get all those free handouts, tax incentives, free parking and charging, manufacturer incentives, etc., to make the electric car even slightly compelling from a personal finance standpoint.  The only way that the electric car is a frugal choice is if you are at the very low end of the spectrum driving one of those cars that those handful of states force the manufacturers to sell, that they literally have to give away, like a fiat or a smart car.   And even then it's still a very wasteful choice when you consider that you're blowing tens of thousands of dollars of the taxpayer's money and the manufacturer's money every time you buy one.

                                And when the time comes that these cars are ubiquitous and the tech improves to actually make these vehicles practical, do you think all the free handouts will still exist?  No way!  Kiss your tax incentives, free charging, free parking spots and free cars goodbye.

                                As said above, for an apples to apples comparison, you're paying at least $5k, $10k, $20k++ more for a comparable electric vehicle.  That delta buys an awful lot of gasoline before you even get to break-even.  And you never really truly break even since the electric cars depreciate so hard compared to petrol.  Even if you make it to some magical break even point, the battery pack itself is a wear item, and costs anywhere from $6k to $12k or more to buy a new battery pack, plus labor, so you start the break-even clock all over again.

                                Fact remains is that gasoline was still cheap even when it was expensive.  Sure it was irritating paying $3.00 a gallon, but it wasn't by any means a burden. I even visited cali and bought a few $4.50/gallon tanks of premium, big deal.  Even then it's still the cheapest way to travel and will be hard for electricity to overcome.

                                Comment

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