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NP student cannot find pediatrician to agree to have her for 6 week preceptorship

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  • #46
    The NPs/APRNs I've had interactions with at the local children's hospital have been very good to my family, although I do not know what their training requirements were.

     

    You'd be hard pressed to find someone that would assume a NP would have the training that an MD does.... I don't think anyone is arguing that they could give as comprehensive care as a physician. Everyone has to start somewhere.... maybe you can make a significant impact on them in 6 weeks and teach them an invaluable amount. Medicine is a life long learning career after all.... she will have a LONG ways to go after 6 weeks nonetheless.

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    • #47
      "maybe you can make a significant impact on them in 6 weeks and teach them an invaluable amount."

      My partners who precept say the same thing. Respectfully, as I also tell them, I nearly burst an aneurysm when I hear that line.

      I've been doing basic car maintenance for 30 years after my dad taught me some stuff. This does not mean I'm putting myself out there as a car mechanic.

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      • #48
        I have been a FP preceptor for several NP students and I'm sure I did not make a significant impact on their training but I hope it was of some value.

        It reduced the number of patients I could see in a day (therefore reduced pay) and I received no compensation from the school.

        For the students I have assisted, the 6 week rotation was usually only a set number of hours, not daily for 6 weeks, so ended up being 2-3 days a week.

        The benefit was that the maximum CME credits for teaching can be achieved

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        • #49
          And then when they come to the ED they need another 6 months of orientation lolllllllll

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          • #50
            Just waiting for the day when the online NP schools can no longer find preceptors for the massive amount of NPs that they churn out yearly, so instead of requiring live preceptors they’ll have virtual online preceptors with virtual patients. Now you’ll be able to finish your 15 month online NP degree in the comfort of your own home!

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            • #51
              My sister is in NP school. She’s trying to do it the “right way.” She attends part time in person at one of the more regarded programs in our metro and has 6 years of med surg/ICU nurse experience at the two major academic hospitals in the city.

              She’s actually pretty frustrated by the experience and has expressed she isn’t sure it is all worth it. Even at a “good” program she hasn’t been impressed with most of the classes and instructors. She’s frustrated that the market is being saturated, especially with online degrees and those with little or no prior nursing experience. She is about to start her clinicals and is on the fence about whether or not it will be enough. She’s mulled doing a critical care internship (a few hospitals offer these) after she graduates before she pursues a full time position, if only to make her more marketable.

              She actually hasn’t had an issue getting preceptors, which surprised her because she was stressing about it for years in advance. It turned out her nursing connections were enough to get more options than she though she would have, including a few docs. However, I believe at least one of them is a mid level and I believe it will all be happening in the hospital she currently works at, and if isn’t an employee her rotations are at risk. Apparently in our state something was recently passed to require schools to help with placement. She looked into it and it was relatively worthless. Basically, “try on your own and come back if you don’t get anywhere.”

              What I find more interesting is with 4 -5 years of ICU experience, she is one of the most experienced nurses in her unit in a major teaching hospital. They can’t keep them...they all go to NP school or better paying jobs in the suburbs!

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              • #52
                Why do NP students shadow doctors instead of NPs?

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                • #53




                  My sister is in NP school. She’s trying to do it the “right way.” She attends part time in person at one of the more regarded programs in our metro and has 6 years of med surg/ICU nurse experience at the two major academic hospitals in the city.

                  She’s actually pretty frustrated by the experience and has expressed she isn’t sure it is all worth it. Even at a “good” program she hasn’t been impressed with most of the classes and instructors. She’s frustrated that the market is being saturated, especially with online degrees and those with little or no prior nursing experience. She is about to start her clinicals and is on the fence about whether or not it will be enough. She’s mulled doing a critical care internship (a few hospitals offer these) after she graduates before she pursues a full time position, if only to make her more marketable.

                  She actually hasn’t had an issue getting preceptors, which surprised her because she was stressing about it for years in advance. It turned out her nursing connections were enough to get more options than she though she would have, including a few docs. However, I believe at least one of them is a mid level and I believe it will all be happening in the hospital she currently works at, and if isn’t an employee her rotations are at risk. Apparently in our state something was recently passed to require schools to help with placement. She looked into it and it was relatively worthless. Basically, “try own your own and come back if you don’t get anywhere.”

                  What I find more interesting is with 4 -5 years of ICU experience, she is one of the most experienced nurses in her unit in a major teaching hospital. They can’t keep them…they all go to NP school or better paying jobs in the suburbs!
                  Click to expand...


                  Few hospitals seem to keep RNs because there is virtually no shut off valve on NP admissions. If she does an internship it won't necessarily make her more marketable as the hospitals don't seem to care who they hire but it will provide her with a more comprehensive education. She should consider it very seriously.

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                  • #54




                    Why do NP students shadow doctors instead of NPs?
                    Click to expand...


                    Because the smart ones realize they will have access to far more knowledge.

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                    • #55
                      "Why do NP students shadow doctors instead of NPs?"

                      Because fourth year med students might have as much clinical experience as the NP preceptor but still have roughly 10,000+ hours of supervised work before they start seeing patients independently?

                      Seemed funnier before I typed it out.

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                      • #56
                        The "right way" is medical school and a residency.

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                        • #57


                          For NPs, since so much of their training is not formalized, they really do need to have a strict criteria of *years* of experience as a nurse in a particular clinical context before training as an NP to work in that context. It’s unbelievable to me that a physician would need to complete one or more additional residencies or fellowships to switch from ED to peds or GI oncology to CT surgery, yet an NP can do this with hardly any retraining at all. This newly minted RN -> NP nonsense is just that, a terribly undertrained half-clinician who will be lost and lack the crucial insight that other mid levels (and generalists) need, which is how not to pull the trigger too soon or too late on testing, escalation of the level of care, or subspecialist referral.
                          Click to expand...


                          This has always been my position.  There should be a HIGH threshold of years experience as an RN prior to being able to start NP school.  In my area there are definitely APRNs training other APRNs.  And the fact that they can just switch specialties from orthopedics to endocrinology or whatever, wow.

                          In my experience, even with years of previous nursing experience, there is still a LOT of supervision & training required AFTER they graduate and start a job.  The unexperienced in nursing APRN starting straight out of school independently is quite frightening.  There appears to be no barrier for entry to these online APRN schools either.

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                          • #58
                            In terms of the OP question, I have had NP student rotate with me once.  The last one to request I declined.  I don't have the time to properly teach them, without significant personal time commitment.  To actually teach them anything it is not a small commitment.  I mean I would let a college student shadow me for 6 weeks but that is different.  I don't feel much obligation to actually teach them anything.  It would have to be someone I know or a personal contact at this point to make it worth it, unless they were going to pay.  Also I question whether these APRNs (or MD / DO students / residents) should be doing rotations exclusively in non-academic / referral-center type places.

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                            • #59
                              Despite what you may think of the competency of NP's, there's no need for the negative attitude towards this individual. You can't fault her for trying to improve her education, and station in life.

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                              • #60


                                why can’t the students shadow established NPs?
                                Click to expand...


                                You know how when you make a copy of a copy, it's not as sharp as... well... the original.

                                Not just a line from an old Michael Keaton movie - I think there is something to this with medical training also.

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