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  • #16
    Lordosis is wise and one should read his post. What is being promoted violates the ethos of the fire movement which I interpret as: living within your means, investing in diversified funds, and avoiding over complexifying your life by doing things which place you at unnecessary risk.

    I’ll let the gentle readers of the white coat investor forum make their own decision if this (see below) seems like a wise thing to pursue..

    “In this case, one option is that you could hold your property for a year and then trade it in for a bigger property. You would sell your fourplex, valued at $800,000 with a loan of $300,000, and roll the funds into a $2 million property (if you put down 25%) tax-deferred using a 1031 exchange. At 10% cash-on-cash this new property would yield you $50,000 a year in cashflow plus the equity paydown, rent appreciation and market appreciation.

    Plus you also get to cost segregate and do 100% bonus depreciation on this next property purchase too! There’s another $500,000 write off (or $125,000 in tax savings) assuming you are sheltering $500,000 of your W2 or 1099 income.”

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by jacoavlu View Post

      #humblebrag

      the post has almost nothing to do with your situation. Or if you think I'm wrong, explain to me how so.
      The ignore feature is almost foolproof except when someone quotes the ignored. :P
      I encourage more people to try it!
      Now some of the other responses make more sense.

      Comment


      • #18
        Very good thread! Great to see both sides of a discussion.

        And I think the visual capitalist website just entered my daily list of sites to visit

        Comment


        • #19
          Not a thing wrong with charging a fair (or even unfair) price for education materials and courses. Sure it's just math. Maybe I'll go to one of those "free real estate investing seminars". Hey, its gotta be great, it says they need a "few hard working" people to expand in my city. I believe the point is selling returns on high leverage isn't given adequate mention. What could go wrong? Adequate disclosure helps. WCI's comments about levering up are spot on. Kind of like the triple leverage ETF's. Core holding? I think "suitable investment" if to some point a fiduciary responsibility, well ethically.

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          • #20
            I took the WCI course. Great course, worth every penny. I knew a lot of the stuff already but it provided reassurance and there was some stuff I did not know which was very helpful.
            The Real estate course might be great for some folks, but I personally had a very bad experience and will be very careful before I do more RE investing. I think it involves more risk than people often consider.
            I do think our crummy tax system rewards folks for RE investing and punishes the W2 high income professional but that is just how it goes.
            Last edited by Tangler; 12-14-2019, 09:18 AM.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by The White Coat Investor View Post

              You guys are being silly. The reason you can FIRE faster with real estate is leverage. Leverage up, take more risk, put in a bunch of additional work and boom, if everything works out you can FIRE faster. There's no magic there, it's just math. If you don't want to do it with real estate, you can do it leveraging up stocks and working more in your practice. The FIRE FASTER take is just because POF's blog has a FIRE focus, so that's the spin on everything he writes. When I plug this course (and I do plug this course, here's my affiliate link: https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/rental which if you go through you get not only the course, but a signed copy of my latest book) I focus more on it being a way to learn how to do direct real estate well rather than FIRING FASTER. It fits my audience better.

              There's no scam here. They tell you what you are going to get and they give it to you. There is even a money back period similar to my course. Whether there is enough value to justify the cost depends on the student. For some people, there's tons and tons of value there. For others, not so much. Those others shouldn't buy the course.

              This is no different from my online course. What's in there that cannot be learned from reading every blog post I ever wrote, listening to every podcast, reading my books, and asking a few questions on this forum? Nothing. But does that mean there isn't a $500 value in compiling that information into one place and organizing it? I can tell you that dozens of people a month think the value is there. Same thing with this real estate course. Most people don't buy it. But even if just 1% of the audience buys it, it's a money maker.

              None of you guys bought my online course. It was still the right decision to make it and promote it, both as a business decision AND as a way to serve a certain portion of my audience. People who hang out on financial forums all day don't buy online courses. But they sometimes forget they are a tiny minority of the audience of these blogs.
              I don’t have a problem with the investing strategy as much as the presentation. If the course is as slanted as that pair of blog posts I wouldn’t take it for free. It says almost nothing about the risks that come with leverage or the other disadvantages that come with RE investing and makes it sound like someone who follows that playbook can have their whole family swimming in cash in a few years just by following a few simple steps.

              That’s a message that sounds tailored to sell a course, but it also sounds a lot like a message that might come from an MLM. I admit I haven’t taken your course, but your blog posts are almost always measured and even-handed. You have been relentless in telling people to live like a resident, delay buying a house, not overestimate their risk tolerance etc even though most people don’t like being doused with that cold water. Does this course do anything like that?

              obviously people will buy the course and it’s hard to see how it won’t make money. If that, along with relevance to your mission is enough to earn an endorsement, no worries. I just hope that the course quality is good and balanced, and that it doesn’t lead many docs to get in over their skis.

              Comment


              • Lordosis
                Lordosis commented
                Editing a comment
                You have a better way with words then I do. You more accurately and succinctly conveyed the point I was trying to make.

            • #22
              Is it possible that the search for profits and referral revenues has led to the lowering of standards of what “courses” to recommend? I think both the physician on fire and the white coat investor should steer clear of recommending these types of courses. I agree with above post by lithium.

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              • The White Coat Investor
                Editing a comment
                I find it fascinating that you are criticizing a course you haven't taken put together by people you haven't met being promoted by someone whose profits you won't be spending based on some standards that don't exist. Think it's not a good value, don't buy it. Don't like reading about it...you know where the back button or delete button is. Like everything on these websites, take what you find valuable and leave the rest.

              • fatlittlepig
                fatlittlepig commented
                Editing a comment
                As someone else alluded to, the two guest posts have somewhat of a flippant attitude towards what seems to me to be a high risk strategy that could unwittingly lead to financial strife or worse.

            • #23
              Having grown up around real estate investments, it isn't easy. At least in NJ. At least from what I have seen. Thus why I don't prefer real estate as an investment vehicle. Seeing data that the "ultra wealthy" hold large amounts of real estate does make me rethink it, but I'm not ready to take that leap. Finding a "good" property, finding 'good" tenants, finding a "good" property manager... Still can't do any of those consistently.

              Hats off to anyone who can make it work, but the time & effort I see people put into real estate, I'd just rather work more as a doctor. I think the real increase in value of real estate (& practicing medicine) is actually sweat equity.

              And if generational wealth is your goal, the step up basis is fantastic. Barring its repeal (in the news recently if I remember correctly), you get the same step up perks in real estate or index funds. But if you want/need the money from your real estate before your death, the tax implications can be hard hitting.

              Comment


              • #24
                If I took all of the hours I worked at my main job and did nothing but real estate, I still wouldn't qualify as a real estate professional.
                Agree that the blogs read like those infomercials during the real estate boom in 2004.
                But it's not like I'm requesting a refund on my subscription fee to PoF....
                Just delete it and move on.
                And I guess try to ignore it when it becomes a sticky on the Forum.

                Comment


                • #25
                  Here’s a problematic comment from the real estate investor course seller (see below)
                  so they are purporting to spend 750 hrs yearly on managing 60 units but have a goal of owning 100 units and spending no more than 20 hrs yearly. None of this passes the smell test.

                  For our personal portfolio of 60 units, we could probably scale back to about 5 hours a month if we wanted. Eventually our goal is to own multiple 100 unit apartment complexes and spend no more than 5 hours a quarter on our properties. Dr. Cory Fawcett argues exactly this in his recent book on real estate investing. He says, you can choose to do as little or as much as you want managing your portfolio. Currently, we choose to do more (750 hours) so that we qualify for Real Estate Professional Status, but at some point, we will choose to do significantly less!

                  Comment


                  • #26
                    Originally posted by Lithium View Post
                    I don’t have a problem with the investing strategy as much as the presentation. If the course is as slanted as that pair of blog posts I wouldn’t take it for free. It says almost nothing about the risks that come with leverage or the other disadvantages that come with RE investing and makes it sound like someone who follows that playbook can have their whole family swimming in cash in a few years just by following a few simple steps.

                    That’s a message that sounds tailored to sell a course, but it also sounds a lot like a message that might come from an MLM. I admit I haven’t taken your course, but your blog posts are almost always measured and even-handed. You have been relentless in telling people to live like a resident, delay buying a house, not overestimate their risk tolerance etc even though most people don’t like being doused with that cold water. Does this course do anything like that?

                    obviously people will buy the course and it’s hard to see how it won’t make money. If that, along with relevance to your mission is enough to earn an endorsement, no worries. I just hope that the course quality is good and balanced, and that it doesn’t lead many docs to get in over their skis.
                    Let's see....it's been compared to whole life insurance and multi-level marketing so far. Nazis next? It's a course on real estate investing by two doctors who have done it very successfully. If you want to learn more about that, consider taking it. If not, don't. I'm confident the course discusses leverage quite extensively and it isn't some hidden "get rich quick" seminar.

                    Good gravy people. I advertise stuff all the time that isn't right for you. You don't buy it, but some people, for whom it is right, do. They're the ones who pay to keep the lights on around here.

                    Do you know of a better active real estate course for doctors? Send it my way and I'll take a look. Until then, I'm going to promote this one because I don't have time to make one myself.
                    Helping those who wear the white coat get a fair shake on Wall Street since 2011

                    Comment


                    • Tim
                      Tim commented
                      Editing a comment
                      “ it isn't some hidden "get rich quick" seminar.”

                      It’s not hidden, just get rich quick. Now I understand. And it’s a fair shake from Wall Street since it’s two doctors and it keeps the lights on.

                      Got it.

                    • Lithium
                      Lithium commented
                      Editing a comment
                      So you haven’t gone through the course?

                  • #27
                    I have no doubt these individuals have achieved significant success investing in real estate. From what I can see it was done by using significant leverage, and the profits were re-leveraged. The guest blog posts are written in a cavalier fashion, I believe a more professional treatment of the subject would be appropriate.

                    Comment


                    • #28
                      I think what bugs me and presumably others here is that this seems like the type of thing WCI would warn us about. Dangers of people promoting double digit returns, leverage, tax avoidance, etc.

                      Comment


                      • #29
                        Not sure I understand the argument about not being able to criticize something you haven't done.

                        Who says doctors need an active real estate course? I think it's foolish for 99% of docs to pursue real estate

                        Comment


                        • #30
                          I think personal finance stuff isn't really that complicated for vast majority of people. You can get into infinite complexity but it's just not relevant for most. So it seems like most of these financial blogs are running out of content and you see more and more questionable stuff in order to stay relevant.

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