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  • How can your office survive?


    According to the House Appropriations Committee Democrats, the legislation:
    1) Requires private health plans to cover coronavirus at no cost, and allocates 1 billion for testing for uninsured Americans
    2) Ensures employers with fewer than 500 employees and government employers offer 2 weeks paid sick leave. The provision expires at the end of the year.
    3) Requires those same kinds of employers to provide up to 3 months of paid family and medical leave for people forced to quarantine due to the virus or care for children or family members because of the outbreak.
    4) Offers payroll tax credits for employers providing those leave benefits

    5) Puts 1 billion into emergency state grants and food assistance.....

    As the owner of a dental office with 7 employees, There is no way that I could cover this type of overhead long term in the hopes that I get some tax credits in a year from now. If this bill passes how can a small business owner survive?

  • #2
    I haven't seen/heard this year. This would devastate my practice.

    More good news.
    "Oh look another bajillion point declin-Ooooh!!! A coupon for pizza!!!!" <--- This is what everyone's IPS should be. ✓✓✓

    Comment


    • #3
      The bill has narrowed, and you get an offsetting tax credit. See https://www.rollcall.com/2020/03/13/...irus-stimulus/
      but if you are still concerned, you can always call your Senator. Senate takes it up next week.

      Comment


      • #4
        Really amazing that the Democrats tried to use this as a means to create a new federal benefit and had no provision to help small businesses in the setting of revenue shocks. Know what that induces? Firing. Astonishingly stupid to attempt this new system at this point in time.

        Comment


        • #5
          I own a primary care practice, 12 employees. I made sure preparation for this type of scenario was part of my risk management strategy. I am heavily criticized here for maintaining a $2M emergency fund, feels really good to have right now. WIll be debt free, personal and business, in about 3 months. Along with the emergency funds I have a $500K untapped HELOC for personal expenditure should I have to severely restrict personal income. Collecting on account receivables should buy us another month or two. I have several million in commercial real estate and business equity against which I can take out loans or credit lines under more extreme circumstances. I maintain regular communication with senior leadership at my banking and credit partners. Making sure personal and business spending is more limited to essential spending. Looking at telemedicine options in case of physical shutdown, not so much an option in dentistry of course. In a worst case scenario I can bypass $120K in IRA and HSA funding tax year 2020 if necessary under extreme circumstances. Your policy may have business disruption insurance coverage. Beyond that I don't want to think about layoffs or worse, so the best measure is prayer!

          Wonder what measures other practice owners have taken as insurance against significant and/or prolonged disruption.

          Comment


          • #6
            The only secure thing is cash in the bank and a loan.
            Hope all the others pan out.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by ENT Doc View Post
              Really amazing that the Democrats tried to use this as a means to create a new federal benefit and had no provision to help small businesses in the setting of revenue shocks. Know what that induces? Firing. Astonishingly stupid to attempt this new system at this point in time.
              Really amazing that you would blame Democrats for the contents of a bipartisan bill that had the President's backing. I suppose it's equally amazing that Republicans voted for it and Trump is backing it.

              I'm still sinking my teeth into it and haven't read a lot about it yet.

              1. I'm also not sure if this is true, but I think I saw that there is some provision in there for businesses under 50 employees (i.e., their is something different about their treatment than for businesses between 50-500). Anyone know for sure?

              2. What about businesses with over 500 employees? Do they really not have to provide these benefits? That seems really weird.

              Comment


              • #8
                Businesses in literally every other country on earth provide sick leave and survive. Why not here?

                Comment


                • #9
                  ^^^ But the USA isn't just surviving. Throughout history, this country has thrived. I'm not saying paid sick leave would devastate our economy, but does the greatest economy on the planet need radical forced change?

                  I've always had the mindset of "you don't work, you done get paid". It's personal responsibility. I don't get paid when I'm sick. So I take precautions by having an emergency fund. Everyone is capable of setting something aside for rainy days. $1,000 smartphones & $200 shoes are proof of this.
                  "Oh look another bajillion point declin-Ooooh!!! A coupon for pizza!!!!" <--- This is what everyone's IPS should be. ✓✓✓

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    T
                    Originally posted by AR View Post

                    Really amazing that you would blame Democrats for the contents of a bipartisan bill that had the President's backing. I suppose it's equally amazing that Republicans voted for it and Trump is backing it.

                    I'm still sinking my teeth into it and haven't read a lot about it yet.

                    1. I'm also not sure if this is true, but I think I saw that there is some provision in there for businesses under 50 employees (i.e., their is something different about their treatment than for businesses between 50-500). Anyone know for sure?

                    2. What about businesses with over 500 employees? Do they really not have to provide these benefits? That seems really weird.
                    Probably not worth the political debate, but ENT Doc is factually correct. The original bill was proposed by the Democrat controlled House, and included a federal mandate for paid sick leave, which is part of their platform. In the bipartisan version going to the Senate that you are referring to the Republicans both diluted that provision to apply to the COVID emergency only and compensated employers with tax credits.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by AR View Post

                      Really amazing that you would blame Democrats for the contents of a bipartisan bill that had the President's backing. I suppose it's equally amazing that Republicans voted for it and Trump is backing it.

                      I'm still sinking my teeth into it and haven't read a lot about it yet.

                      1. I'm also not sure if this is true, but I think I saw that there is some provision in there for businesses under 50 employees (i.e., their is something different about their treatment than for businesses between 50-500). Anyone know for sure?

                      2. What about businesses with over 500 employees? Do they really not have to provide these benefits? That seems really weird.
                      AR, I’m referring to what the Democrats originally wanted. Never let a good crisis go to waste I suppose.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by snowcanyon View Post
                        Businesses in literally every other country on earth provide sick leave and survive. Why not here?
                        That might be a debate to be had, but it’s inappropriate to try to force this as policy during a crisis. Stop gap measures then have a reasonable debate once it’s all settled. You don’t mandate small businesses cover employees in the middle of a crisis like this as permanent policy. That wreaks of politicizing something non political.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by ENT Doc View Post

                          That might be a debate to be had, but it’s inappropriate to try to force this as policy during a crisis. Stop gap measures then have a reasonable debate once it’s all settled. You don’t mandate small businesses cover employees in the middle of a crisis like this as permanent policy. That wreaks of politicizing something non political.
                          There will be a debate. Primarily those for/against wealth redistribution. Secondarily those for/against government services for individuals.

                          One can view this as a natural disaster. Physical safety there is no doubt. Economic safety, was never offered. Rebuilding the economy will be a priority, rebuilding your business will not. The politicians will continue to pander for power. Protect yourself economically if possible. Your revenue stream is vulnerable. Business interruption Insurance is the only possibility.

                          There will be a debate and it will be ugly.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Cubicle View Post
                            ^^^ But the USA isn't just surviving. Throughout history, this country has thrived. I'm not saying paid sick leave would devastate our economy, but does the greatest economy on the planet need radical forced change?

                            I've always had the mindset of "you don't work, you done get paid". It's personal responsibility. I don't get paid when I'm sick. So I take precautions by having an emergency fund. Everyone is capable of setting something aside for rainy days. $1,000 smartphones & $200 shoes are proof of this.
                            Greatest economy does not equal a great or even sufficient economy for all individuals.
                            Asking employees to take some PTO until this blows over seems a good idea versus having them come to work and risking the further spread of virus. If a small business gets exposed by an EE then everyone should self quarantine for two weeks anyway.

                            I do agree this shouldn't be legislated into ongoing / permanent law. I am for it generally, but yes let's have a separate discussion on it.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by snowcanyon View Post
                              Businesses in literally every other country on earth provide sick leave and survive. Why not here?
                              I am a solo physician employing 7 people. I give god amount of annual leave in total with sick leave built in since that is the way my employees wanted when I asked them. I cannot survive if I had to pay someone additional two weeks or three months off, employ a replacement for that time and also have reduced income to the practice with less number of patients coming in to see me due to the COVID.

                              I am curious to know if you are a solo or a in a group or are employed by a large corporation. I would like you to be in my shoes for a few months and see how small businesses are run before you make lofty pronouncements.

                              Why not apply for short term unemployment benefits if they have to take >2 week sick leave for COVID. That way I don't have to worry about additional money to pay them, they get some income and I already pay for their unemployment insurance. The government wants these mandates. Let them pay for it and let us see how they do it. It is easy to order someone else to do it as long as it is not your money..

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