Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Advice regarding profligate in-laws?

Collapse
X
Collapse
First Prev Next Last
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Originally posted by CordMcNally View Post
    You’re wrong that it isn’t your business because it is now. You really need to have a long talk with your wife on where she stands. This will likely be something you fight your entire life. Parasites typically don’t become independent once they find an accommodating host. Lucky for them they’ve got a doctor in the family!
    To echo cords comments, I've been dealing with an issue my entire marriage so far related to my parents. Hers are responsible with money, and mine are not. Luckily, we only have a few conversations per year about this and don't stay angry for very long. Although, if I ever get to the point of Vagabonds situation, I might feel differently. Good luck trying to resolve this, families can be the best part of life and the worst.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by MPMD View Post
      OP sounds like they realize that people can have major marital problems over stuff like this.

      I hope this isn't a brief discussion with your wife where the past of least resistance is for her to nominally agree with you and kick the can down the road.

      Others have spoken eloquently about the guilt that people feel when they have improved their circumstances and their family is still struggling, that is too-frequently coupled with PhD level manipulators lower down the ladder.

      I think the first question for you guys is "are we ever going to hand money to bro or mom and dad?"

      If the answer is a firm "no" from her then make sure you solidify that with good marriage communication including phrases like "it's very important to me that we are able to discuss this openly, if you say 'no' i'm considering that like a contract that we are making as a married couple."

      if the answer is "..... i don't know" then consider a side fund. IMHO side funds are under-utilized when married couples don't agree about something financially. my wife and i (who do agree) have no-questions-asked side funds where neither has to discuss or justify an expense to the other. that might work for you here. you might say that you are going to keep $5k on ice to help her family, you can't go above that. if you dip below $5k you commit to rebuilding it at a rate of $X/mo through shared belt-tightening. you're not going to love it but it might be better than the vague sense that they are going to tap you for an undetermined amount at an unknown time.
      There is a lot of good advice in this comment. Some of which we have done, and some places where we missed the mark.

      Before we were married, we made it clear to each other that we did not want either MIL living with us, at any point, for any reason. We even joked that we had this promise embedded in the Jewish marriage contract, the Ketubah, in Hebrew, where no one would find it. In retrospect, I might have pushed that we would promise not to be financially supporting any parents, but that would have been unfair given the difference in income/wealth between the two families.

      The side fund is an excellent concept. In our (almost) 24 year marriage, the horse is largely out of the barn on that practice. I was struggling to find a way that only my DW pays for the support, but our assets are almost completely co-mingled, and, truth be told, $10k/year does not move the needle all that much. BUT, it is the principle, and the idea that one minute of my work is supporting my lazy MIL is still intolerable to me.

      What we have come up with is that the money for her mother's support this year will be taken from my wife's bonus, which comes at the end of this month. DW has also promised to continue working until the issue is, er, resolved, even though she had intended to retire in the next year or two...maybe. There are other consequences of her continuing to work, including our not being able to relocate to where I am spending a lot of my work time, which complicates things a bit more. If this goes on more than a year or two, we will probably have to come up with a new mental accounting plan, as in the end, this is all that it really is.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by VagabondMD View Post

        There is a lot of good advice in this comment. Some of which we have done, and some places where we missed the mark.

        Before we were married, we made it clear to each other that we did not want either MIL living with us, at any point, for any reason. We even joked that we had this promise embedded in the Jewish marriage contract, the Ketubah, in Hebrew, where no one would find it. In retrospect, I might have pushed that we would promise not to be financially supporting any parents, but that would have been unfair given the difference in income/wealth between the two families.

        The side fund is an excellent concept. In our (almost) 24 year marriage, the horse is largely out of the barn on that practice. I was struggling to find a way that only my DW pays for the support, but our assets are almost completely co-mingled, and, truth be told, $10k/year does not move the needle all that much. BUT, it is the principle, and the idea that one minute of my work is supporting my lazy MIL is still intolerable to me.

        What we have come up with is that the money for her mother's support this year will be taken from my wife's bonus, which comes at the end of this month. DW has also promised to continue working until the issue is, er, resolved, even though she had intended to retire in the next year or two...maybe. There are other consequences of her continuing to work, including our not being able to relocate to where I am spending a lot of my work time, which complicates things a bit more. If this goes on more than a year or two, we will probably have to come up with a new mental accounting plan, as in the end, this is all that it really is.
        $10k/year..... that would hurt. As you note the principle would be as bad as the practice if not much worse.

        The few times I have been involved in something like this it's very hard for me not to think of what I have given up to outlay this money. Like if you do $10k/year for 4 years that's a nice, nice car that you aren't buying for yourself or a truly insane month-long vacation. You could literally go to London and stay at the Four Seasons for a month.

        Good on you for being able to bear it, I don't think I could. A destitute but hard-working person would be one thing but pure laziness and stupidity would nearly kill me. It sounds like you have a good/strong marriage to be able to bear this.

        The thing that is shocking to me although obviously it shouldn't be is how many people will happily cash a $10k check. And what is more they will usually hate you for it.

        "Neither a borrower nor a lender be, for loan oft loses both itself and friend, and borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry." --Hamlet

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by MPMD View Post

          $10k/year..... that would hurt. As you note the principle would be as bad as the practice if not much worse.

          The few times I have been involved in something like this it's very hard for me not to think of what I have given up to outlay this money. Like if you do $10k/year for 4 years that's a nice, nice car that you aren't buying for yourself or a truly insane month-long vacation. You could literally go to London and stay at the Four Seasons for a month...
          Um, that's $10k for the first year. There is no guarantee that second year won't be $12k, and the third $15k. She is 84 and while she has some cardiac issues, this could go for years.

          I do not frame it in what I am missing out on by giving up the $10k this year and whatever in the future. In fact, I am able to do virtually whatever I want to at this point within reason. I am older and my wants may be more modest and less money-dependent than others'. I frame it in terms of what my children will be missing out somewhere down the road.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by VagabondMD View Post

            Um, that's $10k for the first year. There is no guarantee that second year won't be $12k, and the third $15k. She is 84 and while she has some cardiac issues, this could go for years.

            I do not frame it in what I am missing out on by giving up the $10k this year and whatever in the future. In fact, I am able to do virtually whatever I want to at this point within reason. I am older and my wants may be more modest and less money-dependent than others'. I frame it in terms of what my children will be missing out somewhere down the road.
            One of the injustices I've noticed in family dynamics is the frequency with which some people are able to be completely crazy for their entire adult lives and then when consequences are creeping up on them all of a sudden they are old enough that requiring them to face those consequences seems churlish if not outright cruel.

            I've never been convinced that in many cases these people aren't at least partially aware of this dynamic and enjoy the final stage of the ride as much as the middle, at least as it relates to their ability to manipulate those around them.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by MPMD View Post

              One of the injustices I've noticed in family dynamics is the frequency with which some people are able to be completely crazy for their entire adult lives and then when consequences are creeping up on them all of a sudden they are old enough that requiring them to face those consequences seems churlish if not outright cruel.

              I've never been convinced that in many cases these people aren't at least partially aware of this dynamic and enjoy the final stage of the ride as much as the middle, at least as it relates to their ability to manipulate those around them.
              Simply surviving to “old age” does not convert a leech into a helpless lamb. As has been stated in other threads in the forum, letting emotions rule can be disastrous to those attempting to make sound financial choices. I should add, so should worrying about what other people think of you (I’ve been dealing with this in a frustrating family enabling situation in the last week). I think it’s one of the more obvious laws of nature that all but humans comprehend and abide by. We are such a pampered society. I believe it is not this way in parts of the world where comforts beyond basic living necessities are not taken for granted.
              Last edited by jfoxcpacfp; 02-15-2020, 02:09 PM. Reason: corrected spelling of "leech"
              Financial planning, investment management and CPA services for medical and high-income professionals | 270-247-6087

              Comment

              Working...
              X