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  • RVU index

    A former co-resident of mine is looking at jobs and had one with an excellent salary guaranteed for two years. The catch was that the RVU target was astronomical. At the end of the day, the RVU index was $40 for a surgical subspecialist!

    The moral here is that if we don't share our information with one another, these hospitals retain all the power. They will continue to throw big salaries at desperate graduating residents who don't know that the RVU index is the most important number to negotiate. I know I sure didn't.

    In that spirit, I'll divulge that my RVU index as a Urologist in the south central region is $52.05. I think we should make these numbers easy to find to allow us to negotiate more effectively.

  • #2
    $40 bucks?? Brutal. Midlevels in my neck of the woods make more than that.

    I'm in a rural podunk town and make $77.5 per rvu in cardiology. We don't get any supplemental pay but our rvu is 80-90th percentile so can't complain

    In cards in the west I deem 60 as average, 50 on low end, 70 plus and youre doing well.

    You drop below 50 and it runs all the cardiologist out of town. WCI can attest to that at his hospital.

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    • #3
      This is a very important point. Without knowledge we have no power. I have since moved to a non-RVU physicians group but when I was working in academia the values varied from $27 plus. My fellows who went elsewhere made between $30 to 50.....it is crazy the variation and some of that may be due to the area, but yes, knowledge is power. I would propose you put the RVU amount and state....

       

      -EJ

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      • #4
        Whats and RVU index?

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        • #5
          fwiw - I was referring to wRVU in case that's different from rvu index

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          • #6
            This is the dollar amount a physician is paid per work RVU (wRVU). A contract may look fantastic because it has a salary of $525,000 but if the wRVU target is 12,000, you will never make that salary. The RVU index is a simple way of comparing contracts and essentially determines how hard you are going to work.

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            • #7
              I haven't heard it called wRVU index before but I agree that this "dollar conversion" value is important.  Many jobs offer a fixed salary for 2 years or so to start.  After that you are paid based on "productivity."  The best measure of physician productivity -as flawed as it is- is wRVU.  That is the work RVU and is part of the total RVU that measures how much "work" the physician is doing.  Work includes the stress, training required, and potential legal risk.  All this is basic but important for newbies to know and is not often taught in med school or residency.  If you will be paid on productivity in year three for example it is important to estimate how much compensation you will make.  The key determinants of your future comp are therefore 1: How much wRVU are you likely to generate during that 12 month period and 2: At what dollar rate will that conversion take place.  E.G. when you see a patient in the office it might generate 1.0 wRVU.  An injection procedure might be 1.8 wRVU.  You can find out the wRVU values of what you do a lot of and multiply how many you might do.  Get that total.   Let's say when you add up the estimated wRVU totals it is 5,000 wRVU/year.  If you are paid $50 per wRVU you would earn $250k ($50 x 5,000 wRVU).  Check out comp databases for your specialty to see percentiles of income as well as comp/wRVU.  AMGA and MGMA are examples of those.  I hope this helps those who weren't familiar with the concepts discussed here.

              Don't let your future employer gloss over comp issues.  They are extremely important.  Ask to see actual values.  Read your contract.  Talk to doctors who are 3 or more years in to see how much they produce, etc.

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              • #8
                Oh I know wRVU alright, and what 1 wRVU equals at my hospital. Just never heard the term index. Thanks for explanation.

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                • #9
                  My RVU index is 41.67 as a FP in Midwest urban city (Omaha, NE). I was told this was the "high end" of the spectrum and that there would not be much room to go up at this time. Not sure if this is accurate or a reasonable rate, but I agree that the more information available, the better off we'll all be.

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                  • #10
                    Our family practice guys in Rural America are in the 50-55 dollar range so there's always variation and doubt 42 would be "upper end" especially in Nebraska. So if you are willing to fight/ negotiate arm yourself with the comp data out there. agma, mgma, Sullivan cotter are among some of the survey data.

                    But it's important to remember total compensation per rvu (incorporating all income/wRVU) is more important to see where you truly stand

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                    • #11
                      .

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                      • #12
                        According to my hospital, MGMA median for psychiatry is $37.   I am paid ~$50 in the rural south though I also have non-productivity compensation.

                         

                        Also found this but no clue if accurate:

                        https://www.statista.com/statistics/293878/compensation-per-rvu-of-us-physicians-by-specialty/

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                        • #13
                          65% of collections which worked out to  $85 per wRVU last year  8-)

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                          • #14
                            not rural, but in midwest, and get $59 per wRVU in cardiology.  Looks like I may need to renegotiate.

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                            • #15
                              My hospital supplies me annually with the survey data from two of the organizations mentioned above.  I forget what the names of them are.  These give the regional index, we call them conversion factors.  I would say if in negotiations a hospital system should be able to provide you with the same data.  They are basing their conversion factor on these surveys so ask to see them.

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